Nielsen and Tavares Happily Drink the Kool-Aid! So What's Our Problem with UFA's?
by potvins_cups on Feb 7, 2012 11:00 PM EST
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PrintJohn Tonelli recently spoke with Phil Esposito and mentioned that he feels really bad for the players on the island, hinting that the atmosphere was less than positive. This sentiment seems to be pervasive (or at least it seems to be for outsiders) since the recent snubbings from Ehrhoff and Hamuis, and constant drubbings we get from the media (cough, Toronto, cough). I admit that I was more of a pessimist until recently, embarrassed by the Nordique invasion and the inordinate amount of visiting fans at many of our games.
But I am an Islander fan through and through and even have hope for a playoff run, dying for another Shawn Bates moment. Watching that video is part of why drinking the kool aid isn't such a bad idea, the ESPN announcers said it: "you are almost left totally speechless when you are in this building." The barn shakes when we fill it, and all it takes is a first round playoff bid to do it. Frankly our core now is far more exciting to watch then the Peca-Yashin team of yore. And that's my point: those of us who watch this team frequently and, more importantly, those who play for this team, know to look past the political boondoggle that is the NVMC and the Rolstonesque cap moves that help keep this team economical. This team is dynamic and exciting at its best and the players here seem to know that.
So...what will it take to convince Suter and the like to see what we see? Does this team have to rely on much longer process, rebuilding solely from within? Will this more lengthy and frustrating process work to keep fans away and politicians more reluctant to keep the isles safe and sound in Nassau?
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Free agents don't care about the arena issues. They care about two things: money and winning.
If the Islanders make the playoffs or make a serious run at a playoff spot (that gets attention from around the league), they’d have a shot at Suter because they have plenty of cap space and Wang has not hesitated to offer money for big free agents.
agreed that the arena is less of an issue
but it certainly doesnt help. even if we make a good run at the playoffs, garth may still have to face a bidding war with big money teams, which kinda sucks. spending wisely has definitely been a mantra this team hasn’t strayed from. still, garth should go all out for suter
by potvins_cups on Feb 7, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
also...
its seems to be hard to get any sort of attention (positive attention, that is) from “around the league.” JT not top 25? No mention of Nabby’s efforts on nhl.com? maybe it’ll change, but thus far no dice
by potvins_cups on Feb 8, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tavares was just named NHL Player of the Month
Don’t worry so much about the press.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
You've got money, winning, the arena (yes, the arena, it's facilities) and the specter of a move
Basically you can’t give external free agents who have their pick of any team (and money) a compelling argument to drink the kool-aid — not nearly what you can offer players who are inside and have seen the “real” Long Island and have enjoyed interactions with Wang and Snow instead of read the headlines and punchlines.
I personally think this was always going to be a long process, and the political/arena environment and the low revenues that come with that just adds to the complication.
I’m not sure how many people realize how unprofitable most NHL teams are — and that’s even mid-market teams with nice arenas who are doing WELL on the ice. So there are a lot of factors working against this team that suggest patience will be more important than a quick fix. Not that they won’t try…just that no Suters are likely to say yes in 2012.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I disagree...
if I had a choice to play for a team that wins but has hot tubs and saunas and a team that wins without those comforts I would choose the one with the comforts…I know that the work environment does matter…Winning means “almost” everything
Even the Islanders have hot tubs and such.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
signing Pap, and maybe even Nabby will help
it would demonstrate stability, a team that really is a few players away from playoffs, and a team with a lot of depth in the system, not to mention young. If Pap is signed, Reasoner will most likely be the only forward over 30 next year.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Feb 8, 2012 12:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
no chance on nabby
Not that he doesn’t deserve it because obviously as evident tonight he is our best option but with all the prospects the isles have at the goalie position in the pipeline it would be silly of them to hold onto him as he heads into the slide of his career… Id honestly get on the horn right now if i was snow and max my return for him. the way he is playing right now we could possibly squeeze a first rounder out of a team in need like DET.
A. Spelling is good. Nielsen.
B. We don’t have a problem with FAs. We just don’t go after many because we’re stuck to the floor.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
C. Grammar is good. I think you should have used a semi-colon there. As in:
“A. Spelling is good: Nielsen.” No? Who cares anyway.
I’m not speculating about how many FA’s we go after (though I’m not sure how you know anything about Snow’s inquiries), its just that we know that the the players we go after are reluctant to sign with the team.
Also I spelled “Ehrhoff” right, with that tricky “h” in there. Doesn’t that count for anything?!
No, we don't know anything.
its just that we know that the the players we go after are reluctant to sign with the team.
This is very likely just completely false, but it’s a nice spin of PR for the Islander Front Office (doubles as an excuse and a reason for them needing a new arena).
The Isles simply can’t outspend others. That’s it. That’s all of it.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
You really don't know this, either. ("That's it. That's all of it.")
We have the GM (self-serving) saying it. We have at least two agents (possibly self-serving) saying it. We have opposing players visiting and cracking jokes about the Island/arena (self-serving, just for laughs, who knows).
I’m pretty sure we don’t know the whole of it, and how much is a factor for each potential target.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Feb 9, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
It's circumstantial evidence to be sure
but their self-serving opinions/jokes/excuses all seem to corroborate the suspicion that we have trouble competing for FA’s. Why wouldn’t Naddy want to come here willingly? Why did Kirk Muller refuse to report? I can go on. Of course we can never know for sure what goes on behind the scenes, but there are a lot of stories that seem to back up what some may dismiss as “completely false” media spin. I agree that free agents primarily care about money and winning; we seem to be lacking in both respects. It doesn’t help that our facilities are sub-par and the media seem to focus on the more negative aspects of the franchise (i.e. Burnside, and Tavares “STRANDED”). ugh
by potvins_cups on Feb 10, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
You could go on, but so could anyone else
Nabby refused to report because he thought he was going for a Cup in Detroit, not a lottery pick in Long Island. But they sold him on it and he’s playing very well, and enjoying it here. That says a lot about the current state of the franchise, vs. the Milstein and Milbury eras. Muller refused to report because he loved Montreal (and had just won the Cup), not because he hated Long Island per se.
So yeah, some guys turn up their noses at Long Island. You know who doesn’t? Pierre Turgeon, who liked it here so much that he cried when he was traded. Alexei Yashin, who played his ass off for this team while the fan base blamed him for everything that went wrong, up to and including concessions prices and the traffic on the Southern State Parkway. Mike Peca loved it here. Adrian Aucoin, Roman Hamrlik, Kenny Jonsson, and Janne Niinimaa re-upped when they didn’t have to. Czerkawski, Zhitnik, Sillinger, Witt, Sutton, Guerin, Streit, and Roloson all willingly came here from somewhere else. Lots of guys signing extensions here, too, and giving away UFA years to be a part of the turnaround.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Feb 10, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It's an odd connundrum
We always hear about new players not signing with the Islanders. But when guys are acquired, they end up loving it and staying. Doug Weight could have literally gone anywhere when he retired, but chose not only to live on Long Island, but go to work for the team. We know for facts that Peca and Yashin loved it here (Peca’s wife was from LI, I think). When he became a free agent, Witt wanted specifically to sign here.
So why is it that they have trouble signing free agents? We would have to ask the players themselves. I think it’s about the building and the facilities more than anything else. Either that or the prospect of moving (which i personally don’t think is going to happen) is the big stumbling block. I believe Weight has mentioned that in his dealings with free agents.
On the Marek vs. Wyshynski podcast this week, Greg mentioned that players don’t want to play for Wang, and I have no idea why that would be. I mean, the guy gives out contracts of 15, 8, 6 and 5 years like candy. I think he’s wrong about that, but he is correct when he says the next move for the Islanders has to be a trade for a key defenseman. No more waiting around for free agents. Trade some assets and get a guy whose going to fall in love with area and the team.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 10, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, you're right about those guys
and I’m not arguing that people could never like it here, or would never sign here. In fact, I agree that this could be a great place to play.
by potvins_cups on Feb 10, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Why were we able to sign premium FA's post lock out?
I think its a convenient excuse for Garth…I’m not saying his excuse isn’t valid…I know this building has to be a handicap…
What "premium FA's" are you talking about?!
Bill Guerin (bought out of his massive dumb Dallas deal, playing as a rental in STL/SJ), Fedotenko, Witt, Comrie … these are not premium FAs.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Feb 15, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The “most premium” FAs I can think of the Isles signing in a long, long time were Streit, Roloson, Witt, Peca, Garth Snow, and Satan. For the most part they had attached issues (questioned abilities, age, etc). None of them would be called “premium” signings if they were signed by other teams. And if I had to pick one that was the highest profile FA signing, I guess it would probably be Streit?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 15, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Streit
What was interesting about Streit was, when he was signed, he wasn’t a “premium” signing. It was only after the 2008-2009 season that he became a “premium” signing.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
I think it was early during his 1st season with the Isles that his profile raised league-wide.
I mean when people realized that Montreal was wrong about him- he CAN play D- and he WAS a huge part of why their PP was top of the league. But even before that he was still a Dman who put up a ton of points. Along with Wade Redden, Streit was one of the two biggest FA defensemen available that offseason.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 17, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Very true
Quite frankly, looking back, I’m very surprised he took the leap and signed here. Just an example of a class guy wanting to help out a young team.
Now if only he could hold the puck on the blue line… :)
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 18, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t agree. Signing Nabokov would be important in several ways – first, there’s no telling that he’s about to slide in his career, certainly his work doesn;‘t show that and there are many goalies who continue just as good quality work into their early 40s, second, signing Nabokov would much more securely anchor the whole goalie situation for the Islanders and make it considerably easier to allow Poulin or whomever is the ultimate next heir apparent to come about and sharing the duty would work out better for both – plus Nabokov could be a key instructor for whomever (Poulin or ..).More, the Islanders are indeed developing into a playoff bound team and I think Nabokov not only can help make that possible, it’s also exactly what he wanted to begin with. I think signing Nabokov and PA should be the Islanders number one priorities now that thankfully Frans is signed.
by zack779 on Feb 8, 2012 1:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The reason they can convince guys like Tavares and Nielsen to sign
is because they were already part of the team and the culture. They grew attached. They made friends. It’s different trying to lure a veteran who has offers on the table from other organizations to come in just based on the Islanders outside appearance. He has no ties to the Islanders like a Tavares or Nielsen, so to make that leap of faith and sign long term hoping that an organization with a bad rep is turning the corner, is a tough one to make.
Look at Nabokov. He’s only here because Garth forced his hand. Now it’s starting to seem like, after a half season on the Island, he’s forming a little appreciation for the organization and where its headed.
The Rangers have Jeff Bloemberg in the lineup tonight, why are we not dressing Mick Vukota?!?! This team is unbelievable.
by Chris McNally on Feb 8, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
agreed..
It seems like Wangs family atmosphere is conducive to young people especially…I know I was more loyal to the firm I worked for as a young guy…I grew to worry about myself and to be little more selfish as I learned how the real business world works… Everyone’s looking out for #1…Its hard to stay loyal…But it seems like Wangs world is genuinely built on family loyalty..
Things are already changing
You’ve got guys re-signing who are vocal about how much they like it here. You’ve got Grabs and Moulson and the rest Twittering at each other and by all appearances having a blast. And you’ve got a young team that is earning respect from their opponents by playing hard nearly every night and showing some success. Other teams notice that too, and they know from their own hometown press how some ridiculous things get into print.
Streit signed up for the rebuild looking forward to a year like this (and hopefully next) and wanting to be a part of a turnaround and the revival of a great tradition. Heck, he even did the commercial for it. I can see others wanting to get on board now that they see the ship turned in the right direction.
And THAT is how you serve Kool-Aid.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Feb 8, 2012 1:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
40 YEARS OF ISLANDERS HOCKEY, 40 YEARS OF COMMITMENT
Definitely a poster at Lighthouse Hockey until 2015, then maybe somewhere else.
by ArsenalLI on Feb 10, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is the part where I get on line, and buy my tickets.
And this is the part where I take the tickets to the man and he scans them with the red laser scanner, like something out of Total Recall. And this is where I get on line and buy a hot dog and put mustard on it, and I look around for the onions, but there are no onions to be found….
by Les Beaver on Feb 10, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Shawn Bates youtube clip blew my mind
due to the appearance of Michael Peca sans perpetual 5-o’clock shadow
Still feels weird cheering for Nabokov
To get Suter, two words:
Max. Contract.
Offer him a max deal, maybe 2 years guaranteed plus an option year if that’s possible in hockey. Show that this team means business, and that the cap floor isn’t necessarily the rule. If he comes here, then maybe we can get more of a bargain on another two guys (1 F, 1 D) who want to join a team on the uptake.
But making those waves are essential. If he balks, then do the same with Parise. With all the good things JT and others say about the Island, all it takes is one guy to come here to break the stereotype, and others will follow.
The Isles need to do this, and they need to do it this offseason. They have to get people to go to the games, and they have to win. Pressure must be put on Nassau’s politicians this off season if there is any hope the team will stay there. Given the amount of time needed to plan a scope of work, bid it out, and get shovels in the ground, a decision on Nassau must be made within 8 or 9 months, by my own humble estimate.
Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 15, 2012 11:25 PM EST reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
