Okposo, better than people seem to give him credit for
by OzzyFan on Feb 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST
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Some people have seemed to under appreciate and even undervalue “23yrs old proven top 6 checking forward” Kyle Okposo’s offensive prowess and overall game from my view lately. So I just wanted to set the record straight. And honestly, if it comes down to it, Okposo could fill in for 75%-90% of PAP’s production if throw into the PAP role from where he is now.
I still think PAP is a top 60/50 playmaking forward in the NHL though, I just don't believe losing him would hurt as a lot of people make it out to be. And I think that may be because people underestimate or undervalue what Okposo is and has done so far:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8473449
Okposo is proved already that he is a good and capable top 6 checking forward, okposo’s defensive abilities/game are solid, but I think people truly undervalue his offensive abilities. He's been used as a checker and sub-50% o-zone start forward his whole career till this year, and even this year with PAP's promotion back to the 1st line he won't finish with above 50% o-zone starts unless PAP is traded or hurt(knock on wood).
In Okposo's 1st full season at the age of 21, and against top 6 pairing competition, he netted 19goals and 52pts while getting top unit PP mins and middle of the team o-zone starts(not being used as an offensive forward at 5-on-5) and while struggling with his shooting percentage. And this is the year where Okposo finished 2nd on the team in scoring, while splitting half the season with JT/MM both in their rookie years, and Bailey/Nielsen. So it's not like he was playing with young JT/MM full time, but he was also used defensively with Nielsen/Bailey. Pretty impressive if you ask me, even more so when Okposo came out heavily on top in corsi stats that year.
After that, the shoulder injury slowed his development, but none the less young Okposo still seemed to be able to put up good corsi numbers and solid offensive stats for a guy that has been used in a checking role and in 2nd PP unit ice time. Struggling with his shot last season and early this season, and he was still a full-season simulated 40pts+ guy last year and a 45pts+ guy this year. Not bad for a "checking" forward, especially given the circumstances and “rehab” from the injury.
And let’s not forget, Okposo was a 7th overall pick for a reason. He is a 2-way forward with solid offensive upside. I know juniors/college isn’t the NHL, but he has been a solid goalscorer and pt producer in all the non-professional hockey leagues he’s been. In high school he potted 47goals in his final season there, in his rookie USHL year he netted 27goals, and in his rookie college year he netted 19goals, good enough for almost 1goal every 2gms. In non-professional hockey, Okposo has been a guy that’s scored around a goal every 2gms, nhl equivalent of a 40goal scorer (which I don’t think he is). So he certainly has goalscoring potential, just likely 20-25goal/yr potential, not elite goalscoring potential. Even this year, his shooting percentage is up and without top line o-zone faceoffs and while only playing a chunk of games on the JT line and on a minimally producing 2nd unit PP he is on the verge of a 19goal season. Pretty impressive given the criticism he’s face, 15game/18% of the season goalless slump to start the season, and situation he’s been playing/used in thus far.
Maybe I just have a lot more faith in Okposo filling PAP’s role out well offensively(not completely) and that we can fill in Okposo's checking line role from within soon(nelson/cizikas/ullstrom maybe). But given numbers and age, I feel I am thinking pretty logical now and damage control if PAP is gone is far from a disaster. I really think people overestimate his loss. Would losing a player like PAP hurt? Yes, but not nearly as much as his numbers this year would suggest. And that's the reason I made a giant fanpost on the subject. And all this is because Okposo is a lot better of a player than people give him credit for, especially given what he’s done and proven at such a young age already.
Even though it might not look like it at point blank or “with the eye test” some people use, advanced stats and running numbers says Okposo can fill-in on the PAP role extremely well, especially given the proof I listed in the PAP fanpost I put up. Okposo can truly fill-in for PAP very well in his role, and finding another checker to fill-in for Okposo and deeper if we have other within-team upgrades isn’t something that hard to do. And without even equating Nino’s or Strome’s or any other rookie’s offensive prowess added to the equation, we should be pretty well off damage control wise if PAP is traded or lost at free agency. So please, don’t under appreciate what we have in Okposo. He may not be as shiny as Moulson or JT or Grabner, but he is still a solid top 6 forward, and young offensively and defensively capable one at that.
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agree that i think Okposo could fill PA's role.....
he basically has done it when moved to that line this season. I am just so disappointed with Kyle though. I probably had the highest hopes of anyone for this kid. He reminded me of Jarome Iginla. When he came up he was an absolute beast. A hard nosed kid who, when he wasnt scoring was doing everything else. He was always our most noticeable player on the ice and our best player on the ice. He was our Ryan Callahan with more offensive ability. This year, he’s lost a lot of his edge. You can probably count on one hand how many times he drove hard to the net this year. You can probably also count on one hand how many hard checks he has thrown all year. This is not the Kyle Okposo i saw when he first came up. I’ve been trying to wonder what is wrong with him for a while and why the physical and determination part of his game really fell off. It starting to dawn on me that maybe he is just becoming a product of way too many soft players around him. A power forward trying to play the perimeter game. This whole team is soft and none of the players are demanded to be physical. It may be talked about, but nobody is held accountable for this. So Kyle is just following in the footsteps of the rest of the team (outside of JT, Hammer and Martin). My biggest problem with that is that i never thought Kyle was the type of player who needed to be kicked in the ass to play his game. I always thought it was in his nature to automatically play that style and be that type of player. I think any early assumptions of him being hesitant because of his injured shoulder have all fallen by the waist side now because this season is practically over.
Im with you in your concerns...
But I remember when Gordon had a talk with KO and all of a sudden he started playing in BEAST mode game in and game out…So maybe KO does need a coach to help keep him going and motivated…It seems like Cappy just doesnt know how to push the right buttons…Like you said…They talk about hitting but thats all they do…
PAPs Role
Thanks Ozzy. I don’t think the question is can Okposo or someone else on the team replace PAP on the top line. The Question is who replaces PAP next year.
The farm system sounds great, but none of the kids can be PAP or Okposo or even Bailey next year. So if we lose PAP we move Okposo up and still have a really good 1st Line, we move Nino up to the 3rd Line with Nielsen and Grabner which sounds really good. We even can have a nice 4th line with the group of Martin, Cizikas, Haley, Wallace and any other kid for fill in time (Rakh or Dibo). So we have:
MM-JT-KO
?-JB-?
MG-FN-NN
MM-CC-RR
(Haley) – scratch -gritz
Who is the 2nd line that will help Bailey. Ullstrom, he has how many games in the NHL?
Can we get a 2nd line Free Agent?
Strome is a kid and should have 1 year or at least 1/2 year in the AHL, Likewise for Nelson, Lee, Petrov, Kabanov. Do we really want Rakh or Dibo on our 2/3 line with Bailey?
Keeping PAP to either be with JT or Bailey is the logical thought and then
Ullstrom-JB-PAP
is at least serviceable.
By all means put Okposo on the 1st line and lets see if he is 1st line player or if he needs to be a 2nd line player.
But for next year we must keep PAP and if that means 3 years for PAP that gives the kids time to mature and enter the NHL with real capability instead of just potential.
KO
is first class, and I won’t repeat your excellent summary. Inconsistency in his game to game effort has been a problem. A lot had to do with that injury and possibly Pheneuf’s dirty preseason shot 3 years ago. He has nothing to prove except to mature and have the right linemates. On the other hand Josh Bailey, who is a nice young man and has been mentioned as a possible linemate when a 2nd line center seemed possible, has really proved nothing, inspite of all the patience Snow has given him from the start. Maybe the coaching staff needs to spend more time defining Okposo’s role and helping him reach the excellent potential that he certainly has.
Bailey's a completely different case than Okposo.....
Baileys been bounced around and spun around all over the place since he came here as a player who was clearly not ready. Then instead of pointing him in a direction they told a 19 year old he needs to shoot more (which he was clearly always a passer in jr.s), then they moved him to the wing, then back to center. Josh Bailey has basically been a rag doll in the lineup his whole career. He’s shown spurts, but is wildly inconsistent. To be blatantly honest, this team needs a smart coach who is demanding on his players. A lot of our guys arent “kids” anymore, they dont need to be babied. Capuano has a lot of guys trending in the wrong direction.
by LaFontaine16 on Feb 22, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I Love Kyle- but theres no way I can agree that he can do what PAP does on this team. Maybe he will be able to do it at some point, I hope that he can, but he isnt there right now… and no amount of personal fondness for a player can change my mind on that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
he has done this when he was on the 1st line.......
Not saying he can replace what PA brings to the table, but his production. He proved this when he was put with Tavares and Moulson
by LaFontaine16 on Feb 22, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Okposo's had one good month in the NHL this season
and that just so happened to be when he was paired with Tavares and Moulson during a ridiculous hot streak. Now in February, when Tavares has struggled, Okposo’s been cold and moved off the top line, all while Parenteau continues to pick up points throughout the month. No way is Okposo as productive a player as Parenteau.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Feb 22, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not exactly,
Okposo with JT line this year: 23gms 6goals/17pts
Okposo without JT line this year: 34gms 7goals/14pts
Take into account Okposo’s 15gm goaless streak to start the season, and he’s actually a similar goalscorer with the Nielsen line as he is with the JT line. And I didn’t say he was as productive, I said in PAP’s role (PP TIME INCLUDED), Okposo could put up similar numbers. And Okposo might not be as much a producer as PAP is, but in “minimal” time with JT and not on the top PP unit, Okposo’s stats showed he could very well be a pts player on the JT line full time and on the top PP. Even when you consider that line was struggling for half a month/ 1/3 of the time Okposo was on it. This is part of the reason why Okposo doesn’t get the respect he deserves. Okposo proved in a month and a half’s time, with the line struggling for 1/3 of the time he was on it and in 2nd unit PP time, he could be a full season 21goal/60pts per year forward. Add PP time into account, and Okposo could be/have been 25goal/73pts per year forward in the PAP role full time given the numbers. And as pointed out in my other PAP thread, and even accounting for more struggling, Okposo is more then able to fill-in for 75-90% of PAP’s production in that role.
PS-I think the whole “JT struggling point” is a little weak. I don’t think many lines in the NHL would produce if their PPG center was off/struggling.
Look this doesn’t take anything away from PAP, but do you think Tavares having the best month of his career with Okposo on his line as 100% pure coincidence? I don’t think so. And the 3weeks before Okposo was put on the 1st line JT was struggling with PAP on it. I think everyway is way too high on PAP, especially if you guys think he’s gonna be a 70pts player for the next few years of his career.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
And the whole "PAP PRODUCES THE SAME AWAY FROM JT" is a lie and I've got the numbers to prove it:
Since PA still played top unit PP mins with JT on the Nielsen line, so you have to look at 5-on-5 production.
PA without JT 5-on-5/even strength: 23gms 3goals/14pts, 5pts with JT ON THE ICE or scoring(OT/line change, and other even strength), so really 3goals/9pts without JT in 23gms 5-on-5. And to make that number look even worse, 3 of those 9pts without JT were Empty Net points. 5-on-5 with only the Nielsen line and no EN pts in 23gms, PAP scored 3goals/6pts.
PA with JT 5-on-5/even strength: 34gms 4goals/25pts, only 5 of those pts away from JT and only 2 EN pts.
Broken down, that’s PAP scoring a full season EVEN STRENGTH scoring:
Without JT: 82gms 10goals/32pts
With JT: 82gms 9goals/48pts
There it is, PAP got 67% percent of his ES production on the Nielsen line then he did on the JT line, and would be a 16pts less player/yr if he spent a full season on the Nielsen line vs the JT line.
So in essence, PAP is a lot less ineffective without JT than with him. People stating otherwise are giving false information because they either:
A. Don’t realize that even without being on JT’s line, PAP still skated top PP mins with JT and produced there with him.
B. Don’t realize that PAP was less effective without JT on his line.
C. Don’t realize PAP spent some time with JT during that time at even strength and produced(OT/late in games/shift change/etc)
But when you break down the pts production and numbers, PAP is a lot less ineffective without JT. Statistically PAP’’s 67% the offensive player he is without JT than with him.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
So in essence, PAP is a lot less ineffective without JT than with him.
I think you meant PAP is a lot less effective without JT, but this is true of anyone though, and it’s frustrating whenever I see this stat when talking about PAP’s production with JT in comparison to Okposo’s production. Kyle will experience a very similar drop-off if we continuously take the JT factor into effect. Using the numbers you utilized above, if we look at it over an 82 game season and production remains consistent:
Kyle with JT over 82 games = 60 points
Kyle without JT over 82 games = 33 points
Now I don’t know whether the numbers you posted for Okposo took into consideration any PP points, but since he only has 4 PP points on the season, I don’t think there’s that much of a difference. If we’re looking at this over an 82 game span, then Kyle’s production is at 45% less than if he was paired with JT.
Plus, doesn’t PAP’s point totals, inflated though they are from PP time, imply that he is even more important to the organization than that? PAP’s currently on pace for 16 PP points compared to Kyle’s 4 PP points, and I would be mighty surprised if, even if played on top PP minutes and with JT, that he would increase his PP totals 400% from this year.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
I agree with most of what you are saying here, and that was actually partially my point, playing with JT makes players better than they are.
Surprisingly, Okposo’s stats without JT are near exact to PAP’s numbers without JT’s. And if that wasn’t crazy enough, Okposo’s numbers with JT are noticably better than PAP’s numbers with JT 5-on-5. Although I don’t think Okposo could contune that pace for a full season with JT, surprisingly he could be able to produce near exact even strength production to PAP at even strength with JT, or possibly even more. The calculations I ran showed he should be able to fill-in for ~80-85% of PAP’s production, but it seems entirely possible he could do more, but not likely much less.
And yes, PP production needs to be taken into account, but Okposo is the most productive player on our 2nd unit PP, and in the past when he had top PP mins on the top unit, he threw up 22pts on the PP. PAP is on pace for 23pts on the PP. Although Okposo did it with more PP time(he also did it without PAP on the unit), thinking Okposo can’t put up 18/19pts in that spot(80% of PAP) on that efficient PP would likely be false. Just running the numbers of what he’s done in the past in relation to other players on PP units, his effectiveness, and his past pts/min on the top PP unit, he should be more than well capable.
" I would be mighty surprised if, even if played on top PP minutes and with JT, that he would increase his PP totals 400% from this year." Then you’d be wrong. Nielsen is on the verge of 16pts, Okposo is more than capable of 16pts on the top PP unit in PAP’s spot. Numbers prove it, past production, proves it, even A-mac could fill-in and produce like that, last year without Streit on the PP A-mac had a full season equivalent 16pts on the PP while not playing on the 1st unit PP all year. So I guess finding these things out will heavily surprise you, but yes, Okposo is more than capable of filling in for 80%-85% of PAP’s production in PAP’s role, possibly more.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
And all this is the reason why PAP shouldn't be paid like a 65-70pts player,
but more like a 50-55pts~ player. He’s not worth $5mil/yr, although paying him that for 2-3yrs wouldn’t bother me. He’s worth likely $4mil/yr “TOPS” long term(ie:4-5yrs). Anything else is an overpayment.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Good stuff, Ozzy..
This had to be said…Its bothersome seeing Isles fans turn on KO…Talking about trading him and stuff…This kids a solid player…I think he needs a coach who can get the most out of him…Cappy doesnt it
I thought some more about this this morning when I was getting ready for work
While I think that re-signing Parenteau is the best option for the Islanders for the next couple of years, I agree that Okposo may be a good short-term option for the first-line, but only until one of the kids, be it Nino, Strome, or whoever has greater offensive instincts than Okposo, is ready.
While the evidence does prove that PAP and Kyle are similar players when playing with AND without JT in terms of points production, I’m concerned that Kyle’s numbers with JT might be inflated even more as a result of JT pressing the Turbo button and going into BEAST mode for the month of January. For the past couple of seasons, he’s pretty much tracked at around 40 points his past two years, which I think is on the low end for what the Islanders need out of him. I guess I want to see him perform a more consistent effort on a secondary scoring line before seeing him promoted to the first.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
That's all I wanted people to realize for the most part. Thank you.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
THANK YOU, for pointing this out...
I keep hearing people talk about Paps just keeps producing at the same rate on any line even if its not JT’s…But I didnt see that happening…The top line has been the only line that produces at a high rate whether its Paps or KO on that line…The 2nd line has struggled to score with Paps or with KO on the wing…
The math doesn't lie. lol
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I think people forget what this kid looked like pre-Cappy...
He was a Beast game in and game out…He looked a heck of allot better than Paps has even looked…He got hurt and came back and he hasn’t been exactly the same…I think there are a few reasons for this…But to just say he doesnt have the ability anymore is short sighted, IMHO..
And honestly, if it comes down to it, Okposo could fill in for 75%-90% of PAP’s production if throw into the PAP role from where he is now.
This should be a conclusion based on an extensive and heavily cited research campaign, not part of the opening of an argument that is unable to prove it.
Okposo is a lot of hype, but PAP is producing regardless of what anyone says. He racked up assists while on the top line, and then continued to create assists while put on the 2nd line. PAP is legitimate in his production, while Okposo relies on hoping one game to the next sees the same, consistent effort that makes him a success.
If Okposo could replace 75-90% of PAP’s production, then he would have that. Okposo should have 30 or so assists if that statement could ever be true.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
No.
I don’t think you read anything of what I read. I gave advanced stats, I gave calculation, I gave numbers in both this and the losing PAP thread I put up. Just read my reply to fabtraption with Okposo’s production on the JT line this year, while JT/Okposo struggled for a 1/3 of the time together, has been very efficient.
That’s fine, think what you want. I gave proof I gave information, etc etc. With more and more criticism on this subject, I know it wouldn’t be best for the team since losing a 50pts+ player never is, but losing PAP and plugging KO into his role(PP time, o-zone faceoffs, 1st line linemates), would/should fairly easily turn okposo’s stats into 20goal/60pts production. Just watch, although I won’t doubt the possibility of someone throwing Nino on that line if we lose PAP next year, but people seem to be heavily underrating Okposo’s offensive prowess. CHECKING FORWARD is how Okposo’s been used as, you guys do realize his offensive stats would be better just by noticably better just by swapping him roles on this team? Then add top PP time/unit to the equation, JT/MM linemates, and top o-zone starts, and Okposo would really really surprise a lot of you. Just to give a small/somewhat related example: if Tavares was used like the Sedins have been this year, he’d be on the verge of a 100-105pts season instead of an 80pts season.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I'd love to believe what you are saying about KO...
but it doesn’t look that way watching him. He’s neared the 20-goal mark once in his career (maybe he can hit that mark this season), but he doesn’t seem to play with enough consistency (regardless of his o-zone starts and such) to put up 40 assists a year. If he ends this season with 75% of PAP’s assists, then you win the argument.
I hope you win the argument (because then it means KO is finding his groove).
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
by Turgeon1992 on Feb 23, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
You just misread everything I wrote than, because it's against the odds for Okposo to do that in his "current role" on the team.
In PAP’s role, I’ve given numbers and calculations, Okposo is more than capable of producing 20goals and 75% of PAP’s assists as I’ve stated and proved through numbers. Please read them and the PAP thread and other comments in this thread if you still don’t understand.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
exactly
What I couldn’t figure out was this…Why did Cappy use KO on the top line on the 5 on 5 but he used Paps on the top line on the PP? That’s not putting KO in a position to get his pts or to help his confidence IMHO…But that is why Paps continued to produce when he was on the 2nd line while on 5 on 5 because he was used on the 1st PP unit regardless…Thats how the Isles score most of their goals…On the PP…Not on 5 on 5….I guarantee if KO was used on the top unit on the PP he would be scoring pts at a way higher rate…That is for sure…Paps scores most of his pts while on a line with JT and that is also a fact…Lets stop making believe that Paps is scoring at a high rate on any other lines except with JT…Its not true
And lol, Okposo has 31assists right now. So your last point hurts your argument a lot.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Stupid me. 31pts, but it doesn't work exactly like that because PAP's numbers are "in team" inflated from highly efficient top PP mins, top line/high o-zone starts, and playing with JT/MM a lot.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I checked it out before I made the statement.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
by Turgeon1992 on Feb 23, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
He is far from allot of hype...
Its been the opposite over that last year or so…he’s been hyped down if anything…He lost the hype…Thats why Ozzy wrote this…He feels he has better than most think…If he was over hyped he wouldn’t have wrote this piece…IMHP
i agree with you Ozz.....
no one wants to see the black and white picture. PA has been a very productive player. People point to him producing away from JT but thats not really the case. He still produces, but no where near the level he does when hes with JT. When that line was broken up and you take into account PA’s points while not on that line, there wasnt much production without Tavares. Most of the points PA was still accumulating away from that line were PP points, assists on empty net goals and he also added an assist on a Tavares goal with the extra man. I broke it down once before, i think in the first 9 games that line was broken up PA had 9 points, but only 2 of them were on goals scored by his actual 2nd line mates. So thats 2 points in 9 games that didnt involve the PP, the extra man and empty net goals. Im pretty sure Okposo is capable of 2 even strength points in 9 games. So however you want to look at it, PA continued putting up points after he was moved off the top line, but few were of a pure 2nd line variety with Nielsen and Grabner being the counterparts. Im pretty certain Okposo would put up very similar production if he was on the 1st line all season and given #1 PP minutes. The fact that this point was proven when he was put on that line makes me wonder how people can argue against it. He was at a ppg pace and still wasnt get top PP minutes.
Ha, that's really funny because before I checked in on this thread again I ran the numbers of PAP's production with and without JT and now posted it above in a reply.
And yes, PAP is a lot less effective without JT than with him no matter what people wanna think. Thanks for believing and knowing the real truth! I’m glad I made this fanpost.
I just don’t get it. When put into context, Okposo is a lot better offensively than people wanna give him credit for and PAP isn’t nearly as good a player as people think he is. I’ve proven it with numbers/breakdowns/etc, and some people still turn a blind eye. Incredible. This isn’t to say PAP is a bad player, he is a good top 6 producer, just not as good as people think he is. Watch if he’s not on this team next year, what other team is gonna throw him on a line with 2 30goals scorers? 1 of them a PPG player. What other team is gonna put him on a top PP unit with players of JT/Moulson/Streit’s caliber(even Nielsen is an underrated playmaker)? I’m not saying PAP can’t be sheltered and produce similarly on another team, I’m just saying him being given the great opportunity and circumstances he has with us isn’t going to be easy to find if he leaves for another team, and his production could easily drop back to a 50pts~ player if this occurs.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
just to put one more spin on this.....
if PA is such a strong producer away from Tavares, like everyone claims, then why was secondary scoring still an issue when he was moved to the 2nd line? Wouldnt this solve our season long problem of our 2nd and 3rd lines not contributing?
by LaFontaine16 on Feb 22, 2012 8:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't agree with this
because one player can’t help the scoring woes of five other guys.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Feb 24, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Paps did not perform on the 2nd line at the rate he did with JT...
People seemed to think we was…This is false…Both KO and Paps produced well on the 1st line and both produced considerable less when on the 2nd line…How is that not true?
Well...
okay, in that last statement I’m not saying that PAP is a better first-line player than Okposo, I’m saying that to expect PAP to move to the 2nd/3rd line and fix the secondary scoring automatically is a fallacy. That’s not going to happen.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
I'd just like to see
Bailey play some with Pap and Ullstrom before Pap is moved…Ullstrom the goal scorer, Pap the play maker. Be a fun line for the next little while. Martin can play with Grabs and Neilson, play Haley with Reasoner and Nino. Keep MM, JT and KO together.
I’d role the dice with the D, call up Donovan, pair him with Hamonic, try Ness with Streit as second pairing that never sees defensive zone starts but leads offensive zone starts, 3rd pairing would be Amac and Eaton, dominating defensive zone starts. Jurcina with the league’s worst plus minus is too risky to try with Streit. Nabby and the kid in net.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Feb 22, 2012 10:01 PM EST reply actions
a line to consider
how would Nino, Martin and Bailey/Frans work? i feel one a line with Martin, Nino’s hitting would be more common and martin hasnt been offensively silent as of late; and Bailey or Neilson could generate better scoring chances then what theyre doin now
As always a day late...
with my 2 cents. Look at the 16 teams that are in the playoffs and tell me how many would be giving KO top 6 minutes. 3? 4? How many would give top 6 minutes to PAP? The answer is probably in double figures. KO can get top 6 minutes for the next 12 years and will probably break the 20 goal mark twice and never hit the 40 assist plateau. Same for St.Frans. This is why the Isles are a non playoff team and will continue to be as long as they both get top 6 minutes. Fowards who are better in the d-zone than o-zone are relegated to 3rd lines on winning teams for a reason.
"for the next 12 years and will probably break the 20 goal mark twice and never hit the 40 assist plateau. "
This statement is false. Do a lot of people just post and not read my articles/writing/calculations? lol
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
BEING 75 - 90% OF PAP IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
I made a bold prediction after reading your rationalization of his mediocreness(if thats a word). Let’s look at right now, do you really see KO cracking the top 6 for most of this years playoff teams? Look into the future, do you really see KO as an offensive force? Is his shot going to improve so much that he gets it off before the goalie closes the 5 hole (never mind actually getting it past the goalie)? Is he all of a sudden going to become quick enough to carry the puck past a dman toward the center of the ice (instead of being forced outside, constantly). Just because I disagree with your articles/writing/calculations on KO doesn’t mean he is not worth the contract they’ve signed him to. I just don’t see the Isles being a cup contender with him (or St. Frans) getting 20 mins and major PP time.
The thing that I find disturbing is that people have very short memories.
I have a feeling that many of the Isles fans who are calling for him to be traded and are now negative about KO’s abilities were probably the same fans who were saying he should be the teams next captain…I am still bullish on KO’s potential and I’m still a fan…I am not gonna give up on him yet…That would be disregarding the fact that he was called a BEAST in almost every game when he was under Gordon…The ironic thing is I was never one of those saying KO should be the Capt either although he grew into one of my favorites…I cant just turn my back on the kid…
The bottom line is Cappy is not getting the most out of some of his players, IMHO…Especially KO…I know I’ve said this before but isn’t it interesting that KO was a BEAST under Gordon and his system but not so much under Cappys and his system???I discussed this with Dominick and he thinks that maybe its the system….Gordons was conducive to KO’s strengths…To keep skating and fore-checking along the boards…Cappys is s sit back approach which leaves him hovering a bit….Takes away from his aggressive skating and what he was known for and that’s 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts and strong work along the boards as well as stealing pucks with his back pressure…
1st he was Capt material but now hes a bum? Give the guy a break. He is a good player
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
