Coach is Suffocating Isles Top Prospect
by Clax on Feb 17, 2012 11:46 AM EST
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In last nights game against the high flying St. Louis Blues, the New York Islanders got a strong sense of just how much an experienced and great coach can do for your team. The fundamental game that the Blues played was an absolute beautiful spectacle. It is tough for Isles fans like myself to think about how much better this team would be with a coach like Ken Hitchcock, but last night;s game should be a strong indication to our extremely well managed team (sarcasm) that a coach along with a solid defenseman will be our priority this summer.
With that being said, I have read a lot of criticism about how we played last night in islanderspointblank.com in the discussions board, and this needs to stop. St. Louis is one of the best teams in the league and currently on of the hottest teams in the leauge. We enetered last night with a first time defenseman, and what almost appeared to be a first time goaltender in an extremely rusty Al Montoya not being able to cover his five hole for the life of him. Although a few of the goals were not his fault, big saves needed to be made, and this was Al's chance to prove himeself and steal a few more starts for himself by playing well against one of the top teams in the leauge, like Evgeni did against the Flyers a few weeks ago.
On the positive note, Nino Niederreiter played probably his best game of the season last night. He showed a few flashes of brilliance. The first was on the pass to reasoner who should of went short side, or dragged back to his backhand (even though noone expects him to put these away), and another play when he held the puck alone for about 10 seconds, cutting back and forth in the offensive corner to the left of Elliot, while eventually finding open space toward the slot, taking his space, and taking a shot that was unfortunately blocked by the Blues defence. His insanely quick release, good body strength and positioning, and ability to find space were all the things he showed tonight on an AHL caliber Islanders fourth line, and all the reasons we drafted him 5th overall.
Now on to Islanders coaching. Last night, Brian Rolston again started on the thrid line playing valuable thir line minutes. He also played almost half of our top power play minutes at 4:17, in which went 0-5. His play is obviously not NHL caliber anymore and his leadership role seemingly gets shunned by his linemates and teamates rolling his eyes at him every time he gets off the ice after a terrible offensive play.
Back to the point, when the Islanders are down 5-1 with alsmost half the game to go, and Nino is showing these signs of brilliance and confidence, and rolston is showing these signs of age and lacklusterness, how does Jack Capuano not deem it plausible if not necessary to promote Nino Niederreiter and demote Brian Rolston? ITS A NO BRAINER!! The game was clearly over as Montoya wasn't pulled and we were down 5-1 with one of the best goalies in the league in the opposing net. These are the moves that can help Nino and our team. There is no risk in promoting him to boost his conficence in a game that is already over. To not promote him in a close game when he is playing well and Rolston is playing his typical AHL caliber game, is one thing. But to not concider a promotion in a game like this, is exactly what gives the Islanders organization the reputation it has.
Its unfortunate, but just think we have 8 more months before PANDALFO REASONER and ROLSTON ARE DONEZOOOOO!!!
Playoffs still in sight though fans... we must STAY POSITIVE as Nabby is on his way back and its only a matter of time before JT91 starts his domination once again!!
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Maybe Cappy couldn't stand the thought of a Pandolfo-Reasoner-Rolston line
and having a combined 150 years of age all out there at once.
I agree that Nino would benefit from getting more meaningful minutes, but to say that Cappy is, “suffocating” Nino is a bit much. We’ve all seen Nino’s potential at this point but at the same time we’ve seen things that show he’s still not ready for heavy-duty minutes against other team’s top lines (talking about the entire season, and not just the second half of last nights game). I think the fourth line has been the right place for Nino where he can get some NHL exposure but at the same time, not get in the way of an Islander playoff run.
If the Isles fade out of contention and he doesn’t get moved up to at least the third line, then I’d start questioning what Capuano is doing with him.
Take em to the jabrone-zone
With a glimmer of playoff hope, I think Nino's too much of a defensive liability at this point to play third line minutes
But as I said earlier, if the isles are no longer in the race then I’m all for moving him up. His development is very important to the future of this team. In that scenario I would also want to see Rolston, Pandolfo and Reasoner scratched in order to bring up some bridgeport guys. Not sure of Ulstrom’s health status but I would love to see him back in there
Take em to the jabrone-zone
by IslesJabronie on Feb 17, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Why do people feel compelled to make their first comment a fan post?
Why does a dog lick his balls in public. Because he can.
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Feb 17, 2012 3:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Why do people feel compelled to make their first comment a fan post?
At least this is a well constructed and punctuated fanpost.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 17, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is a great site but--
I think that GENERALLY you all are way too uptight with some of your written or unwritten rules for it. SO WHAT his 1st comment is a fan post? I think he makes some good basic points (I said basically the same thing in a comment a few hours ago; WTF is Rolston doing playing ahead of Ullstrom, Haley, Neiderreiter, et. al?). The rules for posting/ commenting on this site are definitely not obviously displayed, so that’s exactly why people break these rules— because they’re new to the site and new to posting/ commenting on it!
by Potvin's Cups on Feb 17, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that's a generalization of the people here.
Most of us had no idea it was his first post and could care less. All in all, not a bad post and a respectable opinion. When you’re down 5-1, play the kid. I’m fine with that. Rolston doesn’t need anymore ice time. And if I’ve learned anything from Frans Nielsen it’s that “the rules” can go F themselves.
by Les Beaver on Feb 18, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
How dare you say that about us "generally".
You just got yourself 2minutes in the sin bin for unsportmanlike conduct. How do you like that?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
forgot: :-)
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
No... it's just me.
I think that GENERALLY you all are way too uptight with some of your written or unwritten rules for it.
I hadn’t really checked back here in a while, but I figured I’d respond to this.
1. there is no written or unwritten rule about how many comments you have to make before you write a fan post. I was just making an observation. The observation was based on two or three fan posts this year coming from people who have decided to lead the conversation before joining it. That’s all.
2.The title… WTF. Who is he talking about, Nino… Nino should be in Portland, how is capuano “suffocating him”, by getting him about $1.7M dollars to spend on xbox games and NY pizza joint ho’s? Is playing on an NHL 4th line suffocating. Haven’t we seen his progress. As a matter of fact HIS PROGRESS very well could have cost us a playoff spot. If he was in Portland and they spent that $1.7M on somebody more in line with Parentau’s talent this team very well might have found some secondary scoring.
3. Don’t take your neighbor’s garbage and put it on my lawn!
With that being said, I have read a lot of criticism about how we played last night in islanderspointblank.com in the discussions board, and this needs to stop.
4. If we didn’t say this after every game that Rolston played…what are you trying to say here… capuano can’t get blood froma stone? Capuano should have rolston on the fourth line? Capuano should tell Snow to let a $5M forward play in the AHL? What about Rolston is about NYI coaching?
Now on to Islanders coaching. Last night, Brian Rolston again started on the thrid line playing valuable thir line minutes. He also played almost half of our top power play minutes at 4:17, in which went 0-5. His play is obviously not NHL caliber anymore and his leadership role seemingly gets shunned by his linemates and teamates rolling his eyes at him every time he gets off the ice after a terrible offensive play.
5. So this is what it’s all about…
how does Jack Capuano not deem it plausible if not necessary to promote Nino Niederreiter and demote Brian Rolston?
This whole fan post could have been replaced by a game thread comment…. “Hey jackass, move Nino up and rolston down” To where at least one of us would have said, “Welcome to the LHH, where no, it’s really not that obvious to some!”
Okay, I’m done… back to bashing Brian Rolston and everything he represents.
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
You're out of line, IMHO...
The kid wanted to express himself…Why should he have to post in a game thread? I’m not even gonna go into why you’re wrong.
Why do people feel compelled to not address Topics in a fan post...
But rather act as if they are the King of LHH????
becasue, sir, it is free to do so.
But you might also take note of this point
3. Don’t take your neighbor’s garbage and put it on my lawn!
Clax hasn’t even bothered to make a comment on his own drivel. So he took the garbage from somewher else, dropped it off in our yard, took a steaming dump next to it… AND LEFT.
All I am is the guy that reads this crap, wastes his time looking for content, and makes a comment about a current surge of people who commit “drive by” postings.
If that’s acting like “the king of LHH”, well….
EXCUUUUUSE ME!
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
Why the hell is this a problem?
He has just as much a right to make a fanpost as anyone else.
"valuable third line minutes"
ha.. never seen those 4 words together before.
Alex Peterangelo was great paired with Hamonic in World Juniors
much better than when Hamonic was paired with DeHaan…had the Isles picked one spot higher, they would have had a number one D in 2008. and wouldn’t have traded down, also, would have had the assets to trade up the following year when chasing Ryan Ellis and settling on DeHaan.
I suspect two of DeHaan, Ness or Donovan will get rushed to NHL next year. and one of Jurcina or Wishart will be with the team for size. Added to Streit, Amac and Hamonic, if two of the young three are ready, even though requiring some on the job training, the D will be better next year. I am impressed by Ness so far, surprisingly. If Mayfield can be a 3rd pairing D in 2 years, the D will only be lacking a bona fide number one, but have a deep group of various skillsets.
Nino is young even for his draft year…the team needs a secondary offensive zone scoring unit so Frans and Grabs can focus on defensive zone starts…crazy thing, but the 3 young D may be closer to NHL than the projected top 6 forward prospects….a year in BP might help Nino, if he doesn’t breakout first.
I have total confidence in Poulin playing 30-40 NHL games next year.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Feb 17, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seguin was a fourth liner all of last year. Easing the kid in isn't always the worst idea, although I think I'd like to see Nino with Bailey and Martin.
by Metzfan22 on Feb 17, 2012 4:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seguin was/is an elite offensive talent and almost 1st overall draft pick.
And Seguin was on the 4th line of a “stanley cup winning team”. And Seguin skates like the wind. And Seguin had PP time last year/his rookie year. And Seguin got 3min/gm=33% more ice time than Nino has. And Seguin got a 4% higher o-zone faceoff percentage than Nino has(which is significant). Seguin played most of his minutes with Ryder and Wheeler, a 4 time 20goal scorer and a young 2 time 18goal/38pts forward that was a 5th overall pick offensive talent.
Nino has been given extremely limited ice time. Nino has barely been experimented with on the 2nd PP. Nino is playing a “higher d-zone” checking role and was drafted as a goalscoring/offensive forward. Nino is on the 4th line of a predicted NHL basement team(pre-season predictions). Nino has played alongside checking forwards with extremely limited to no offensive prowess, 1(or 2 at times) even ahl caliber.
They really are 2 separate cases.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
To be fair
It’s the NHL and all non-sedin’s are expected to be responsible on both sides of the ice.
If D-Zone responsibility and learning to play in the corners was the goal for Nino’s development how could you argue against the fourth line?
Because it's against extremely weak competition and isn't close to the reality or situation he is going to play in next year or moving forward.
Don’t be surprised at all if this barely helps his defensive game and he’s still a defensive liability of sorts next year. He’s playing against the Konopka’s and Jackman’s of the NHL, not against top 9 players. I’m sure he faced “similar” scoring threats in juniors as he does now when he was on the top line in Portland/juniors. And it’s completely misusing him. Nino’s future isn’t as a checking forward, he’s a touted goalscorer who’s gonna be used offensively, ala moulson. Could Nino become a good defensive/2-way forward? Sure, but that’s not the reason we drafted him and that’s not how he’s gonna be used. And it would/should have been a better idea to throw him on the 3rd line and see how much offense he can produce there with actual offensively capable forwards and see how much they can mask his defensive efficiencies to see how it might or might not be an issue next year and if he is or isn’t capable of top 6 offensive production next year(not saying he’s gonna light it up, but if Nino can throw up 20goals next year with his offensive skill set and some PP time, I think it would be worth exploring to know what we have to address in the offseason or within the team/lines.) I don’t see what throwing Nino on the 4th line tells us about his future next year with the team or what he is capable of next year in anything but a checking role, which is obvious he isn’t close to suited for a top 9 checking role for at least a couple years barring vast improvements in his d play. It’s frustrating, and if I was Nino, I’d be completely pissed at my usage this year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I've been saying it all year
Everyone complained last season about how Matt Martin was being used and how he would have been better off in the AHL. I think how the Islanders used Martin last season is part of what’s making him so much better this year. Let Nino play easier competition and the amount of minutes he’s playing now. Slowly but surely he is working his way towards being a threat at the NHL level. Just give it time.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Feb 17, 2012 8:40 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
But Martin was a projected grinding bottom 6er, Nino is a projected goalscoring top 6er. 2 different cases.
And Martin had a full year of AHL seasoning under his belt before his rookie NHL year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
"grinding 2-way bottom 6er"
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I find your lack of faith in Capuano's coaching abilities disturbing
If anything Cappy’s specialty is bringing along youth players. There’s more of a question about whether he has what it takes to deploy the talent, not develop it. But yeah the real point of my post was so that I could use this picture.
Definitely a poster at Lighthouse Hockey until 2015, then maybe somewhere else.
by ArsenalLI on Feb 17, 2012 11:15 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
What evidence..
besides a no brianer like Tavares, do you have to support that “Cappy’s specialty is bringing along youth players”?
I have finally come to the conclusion that Cappy sucks...
I was on the fence for a while but not anymore…He does not get the most out of his players…Look at KO..
He does not get the most out of his players…Look at KO..
Dont you agree Kyle himself is the one responsible for his own play?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 24, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Coaches are not really paid big bucks.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 28, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Scratching Nino tonight
was the last straw for me. In another post I replied that I like Cappy and mentioned he is just not meant to be a HC, maybe an AC but I am off that. I do not think he has a clue.
Well said
the real point of my post was so that I could use this picture.
Is there ever really a better reason?
"...I was here on Day 1 when Garth decided to do the rebuild, and I really want to see it through." -- Frans Nielsen
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Feb 18, 2012 10:27 AM EST reply actions
Let's assume that by the end of the month............
the Isle’s are all but mathmatically eliminated. Then the basic decision by the GM/Coach is how to conduct the rest of the season. Is it paying with the vets you’ve already overpaid, with the idea that the team will play competetively and win some games. Or do you bring up the prospects from the BPT and see what they can do against the big boys with an eye for planning for next season. A lot more names than Nino would be involved. Possibly Rhett, Ullstrom, Cizikas, Donovan, and maybe Poulin and or Nilsson. I think the first clues will come if and after there is some closure with the status of PAP and Nabby at or before the deadline.
If the Isles are mathematically eliminated by March...
then play the kids, but until then, we suffer through the vets.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
Even if we are 13th/14th in the East we won't be mathematically eliminated till the last week of March.
But there’s a difference between “knowing” the odds you aren’t gonna make the playoffs and being mathematically eliminated. Right now we have “at best” a 5-10% chance at the playoffs. By the beginning of March we’d have to play above .500 hockey, probably like .700 hockey, for those odds to improve. I think by March we should know. And in all honesty, someone down there has to be better than Pandolfo and Rolston.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
can we PLEASE move Nino to the 3rd line
I really think he will benefit from being with Bailey,a nd Bailey will Benefit from having someone to shoot. I mean I like the way Martin shoot when he has the chance, and believe Martin could become a consistent 15 goal scorer, but Rolston just stinks. He is doing nothing whil eNino is really playing well in such limited time. I think with the 3rd line and a few more shifts, along with a very good passer like Josh. Nino puts some in the back of the net
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 19, 2012 4:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there is no reason not to the Nino on the 3rd line experiment in motion now.
But for some reason Cappy just doesn’t want to use Nino much at all. Taking him off the 4th line late in games/cutting his crunch time ice time. Not using Nino on the 2nd unit PP. I really don’t know why, but Cappy just has little faith in Nino for one reason or another. But by all means, Nino should be experimented with on the 3rd line for at least a handful of games.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Niederreiter will never show potential on the 4th line
I realize there is no place to put him but this is the truth.
by IslesFanForLife on Feb 19, 2012 8:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Niederreiter will never show potential on the 4th line
He will never light the world on fire on the 4th line- I believe that- but if you think he cannot even show potential there then WTH good would he be? If you put any good player on a 4th line, they would “show potential”. They are not going to become crappy players just because they have less ice time and are not on a scoring line. Seguin showed potential last season, didnt he? You think if JT or Okposo or Moulson or PAP were on the 4th line one night that they would all the sudden not even show any kind of talent or potential???
Maybe you meant that he will not REACH his potential on the 4th line- that would be accurate. But he isnt plced there for life, he is there to get a feel for the NHL and work on what he has to work on. It is a short term situation with long term benefits. Why do so many Isles fans have a problem with that?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 19, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
"Why do so many Isles fans have a problem with that?"
Because…
-Nino wasn’t NHL ready at the beginning of the season and was forced into the NHL by a pretentious Snow guarantee.
-Nino is getting half the ice time in the NHL that he would have gotten in juniors.
-Nino is being used as a 4th line checker, something he will never be. And he was drafted to be a goalscorer.
-Nino is playing with 2 extremely limited offensive linemates, and has no real chances at showing or finding much of any offensive chemistry or flow while used in this situation with those linemates.
-Nino isn’t getting any PP time at all to show his offensive abilities or develop offensive chemistry with top 9 forwards.
-Nino hasn’t been experimented with on the 3rd line even though it’s clear Cappy has been looking for other options and Rolston isn’t working and we need 2ndary scoring help.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
by OzzyFan on Feb 19, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I forgot: -Because we just burned 1 year of Nino's ELC on a year where he's stuck on the 4th line of a non-playoff team and wasn't really NHL ready for.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
-How is pretentious to see a prospect would be better served spending a year learning in the NHL than going thru the motions in juniors? I’m sure Snow would rather him be in the minors, but circumstances forced the issue.
-Nino wasn’t going to be getting 1st line minutes in the NHL even if he wasn’t on the 4th line. Cherry picking numbers here. You say he’d be better served getting more time on the 3rd line. I say he’d still get more minutes in juniors then.
-As he’s on the 4th line, yes, his role is predominantly a checking-line role. Is it so horrible for a 19 year old to be learning the defensive side of the game first? Players don’t lose offensive talent, but they often need to learn how to play defense. He’s 19. He’ll have plenty of goals before he retires.
-He’s not playing to be an offensive threat right now. He’s not there to get chemistry with Wallace or Pando. By this rational, Strome isn’t learning chemistry with his future linemates either.. are we wasting his time having him learn in juniors? The fact that hes with guys who can’t score isn’t an indication that his education is being stunted.
-Nino shouldn’t be getting any PP time when every game is on the line and he’s not prepared for it. Barring injuries or trades, Nino won’t be a top 6 player next year. As horrible as he’s been, is NIno a better alternative than Rolston on the PP? He’s the only player who deserves to be booted from a very successful PP group that doesn’t need a spark or tinkering.
-If you believe Cappy is looking for other options on the 3rd line then clearly you have to believe he doesn’t think Nino is ready to handle it yet. As a coach who drew success with young kids, I’ll take his judgement on it.
Nino will get more time when the games have less meaning. Until then, he’s caught in a tough spot, but certainly a better one than making it look easy in juniors.
by TA on Feb 19, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Response:
-You answered your own question. Snow guaranteed Nino a roster spot and he clearly wasn’t deserving of it/nhl ready at the time. That is the definition of pretentious.
-It’s damage control. Nino playing on the 3rd line is better for Nino then him playing on the 4th line. And obviously getting more minutes in juniors would have been better than the 4th line for him. Either way, he could learn defense against “better than 4th line scrubs” if he was used on the 3rd line and we could actually see what he’s offensively capable of playing with actual goalscoring and playmaking threats.
-I have no problem with Nino learning defense. Nino learning how to play defense against 4th line scrubs is my problem. What good is it for Nino learning how to shutdown the konopka’s and jackman’s of the NHL? Those guys aren’t real goalscoring threats at all, and some team’s 4th lines are just energy lines with no real offensive threat at all. This in itself could cause Nino to have issues with adapting to top 9 offensive threats next year because of how much “easier” it is to play against 4th liner than it is actual top 9 offensive threats.
-You are throwing some words in my mouth. Never did I say it was essential to Nino’s future to get chemistry with his linemates. I said he has no real shot at developping any chemistry with his offensively inept linemates, thus likely rarely to never being able to show what he’s offensively capable of next or this year given the circumstances of his use/linemates. And after all, we drafted Nino to score so this whole idea is sort of half assed, he should at least be on the 2nd PP unit.
-Rolston is on the 2nd PP unit and was extremely ineffective on the 1st PP unit, which was a top 6 PP without him. And given Rolston’s production, one would have to be crazy to think Nino wouldn’t be better than Rolston on any PP unit. That’s at least 1 person he should get a shot over for the 2nd PP unit. Grabner and Bailey have also struggled on the 2nd PP unit, so maybe even flopping Nino in for one of them might be worth an experiment.
-I’ve said it myself that I don’t know why Nino is so much “in Capuano’s doghouse”. He doesn’t let him get ice time late in close games, he barely plays him 9min/gm, and he rarely experiments with him off the 4th line. That said, you can’t agree with Capuano on all his decisions. Rolston getting 1st choice of wing over last year 20goal scorer Comeau? Rolston getting 1st unit PP time even though he has had only 1PP pt this whole season? And still being used heavily on the 2nd PP unit even though MacDonald/Hamonic/Jurcina have proven themselves better options. Using Pandolfo and Reasoner on the PK over Grabner? Don’t act like Capuano is a mistake free coach, which it looks like given your comment, because he is far from it. Cap’s made some bad decisions this year.
-5% chance at the playoffs, I agree it’s not time to throw the towel in, but Rolston obviously isn’t the answer to our 3rd line problems. Experimenting for a solution with Nino/Ullstrom/Cizikas/Rakhshani(he has) would be in the best interest of the team. So there is no reason to not try Nino on the 3rd line for a 3-5gm tryout.
-I highly doubt that Nino spending the 4th line all season with us as opposed to a full year in juniors on the top line is the conclusive best thing for Nino. If you remember some of BenHasna’s fanposts, Nino was much less offensively productive and less defensively responsible away from top line center talent Ryan Johansen. And Johansen was kept in the NHL this year, so we could have finally seen what Nino was capable of in juniors when he was the best player on his line instead of the 2nd best player “riding coattails”. I would highly argue that Nino would be better off all year on the 1st line in juniors than all year on the 4th line in the NHL if I was asked preseason, and knowing how much Nino wasn’t NHL ready to start the season and knowing he got concussed playing on the 4th line and playing on the 4th line all season in a checking role against crappy player and playing with “underperforming”/sub-par 4th liners, all fingers for me point to juniors being the best choice for Nino in hindsight.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Reresponse:
-ok.. if you want to call being forced into two bad options as “pretentious”, that’s fine. I guess Snow would have been better served by just saying “we think he’ll suck up here, but we don’t want him in juniors”. I’ll say this tho: You seem awfully focused on blaming Snow for forcing a kid to play who isn’t ready for a steady NHL shift, while also being quick to bemoan the coach for not giving the same kid – who isn’t ready for a steady NHL shift – more ice time. It’s a bit unfair to call them both out simultaneously.
-I’m not convinced juniors would be the better option. It’s like saying, “Look, you did a fantastic job in high school, but college is really tough; why don’t you spend another year in high school?” Juniors could very easily have HURT his development by not pushing him to be better. Again tho, you question him playing against “4th line scrubs” while ignoring the fact that he’ll be playing against a sea of kids who’ll never make it to the pros – let alone the NHL. NHL scrubs > kids in juniors. P.S.: I’m sure when were away from the coli, other teams coaches make sure Nino only sees their 4th line.
-
This in itself could cause Nino to have issues with adapting to top 9 offensive threats next year because of how much "easier" it is to play against 4th liner than it is actual top 9 offensive threats.Even if this is true (which I think it isn’t).. once again: why is this WORSE than juniors, where it’ll be easy no matter what line he plays against?
-Why is it SO important for Nino to get chemistry with his current linemates? And who’s to say he’ll find any chemistry with Bailey or Martin? If you don’t feel like it’s essential, why is it in an issue a scorer doesn’t show offensive chemistry with a 4th line? If we moved Nino to Bailey’s line (which doesn’t exactly light it up), and he goes 10 games without a goal, are you going to clamor for him to get onto the 2nd line? Or say his lack of “chemistry” with Bailey is hurting his development?
-I agree with you here! I’d rather have Nino than Rolston on the PP. Except Rolston plays as a 4th forward. Can’t say i’m comfortable with a 19 year old playing the blueline on a PP. To get Nino in a “safe” spot, you have to reorganize BOTH units. But as you said: chemistry isn’t essential, so you might not have issue with this.
-I’d never say Cap was mistake free. Was simply implying that if you felt he was searching for alternatives, there’s a reason he wouldn’t use Nino. It might be a bad reason to us, but it’s something he believes. Regardless, I don’t think Nino is in a doghouse per say. The 4th line typically isnt used late in close games and they typically play 9m a game, so I’m not sure why you feel Nino is being punished. He’s simply playing on the 4th line. I agree with you in that I’d like to him get 3rd line time, but I’m just pointing out the flaw in your conclusion here.
-I agree, an orange cone would be better to experiment with on a line than Rolston.
by TA on Feb 20, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Response:
-Not unfair at all. Who created the cap floor problem by not “overpaying” or finding another “cap mule” to fill for the salary we would need to hit the floor without Nino? Garth. Who isn’t playing Nino, and who favors Rolston’s run….jog and gun play? Cap. Enough said.
-The 4th line thing is debatable, but most 4th liners in the NHL were mediocre juniors players or juniors players that fell off the map. It’s a debatable thing, but to say Nino would face tougher offensive players in juniors over the NHL 4th line is something that should be true. As I said, some teams 4th lines have almost zero offensive capabilities or are pure energy/checking/fighting lines, meaning Nino won’t learn much from defending the Konopka’s and Jackman’s and Gillies’s of the NHL.
-I’ve gave you the run down and told you about the fanposts benhasna made which I guess you missed. Nino was far from an elite forward in juniors when he wasn’t playing with a 1st line NHL caliber talent on his line. This isn’t like Nino getting A’s in high school and needing to move onto college. This is like Nino getting A’s while cheating on half his tests, and could use some time to polish his study skills to get better with another “year/summer”(wordplay). If you haven’t read Benhasna’s posts on the subject, do so. They are well-written and incredibly great insight to what nino was going through last year there.
-It’s worse than juniors because “this” should have been a break in year for him if we were keeping him. You shouldn’t break-in a kid on a non-playoff team from throwing him on the 4th line checking line all year. And as I stated above, nino could have learned a lot on top line minutes in juniors this year for multiple reasons. And it won’t be easy, you really need to read Benhasna’s thread on the topic.
-Finding chemistry with future linemates is essential to him becoming offensively productive with his team. He could very well be playing on the Bailey-Martin line next year. And since it usually takes time to build chemistry, playing 10-20gms with them this year may get us away from the awkward feeling out/gelling stage he would face by just being thrown on their at the start of next year, and theoretically would make that line more productive next year then it would without putting Nino on it for 10-20gms this year. If you think chemistry isn’t important for offensive production, than this whole argument is moot and you really don’t undertand how important it is to learn players tendencies and how much it impacts offensive production. It’s part of the reason why rolston sucks.
-The whole point of that was to point out we can’t agree with Cap’s every move since he’s made mistakes.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I found the thread about Nino's performance last year in juniors by BenHasna, Nino struggling without Johansen :
It’s a great read and really let’s you know that Nino was no where near as effective offensively or defensively when he was away from a 1st line NHL talent center in Johansen. It would have been a nice experiment and learning process if Nino was left there on the top line for another year vs 4th line minutes this year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
This is a stupid move by Garth
-Nino wasn’t NHL ready at the beginning of the season and was forced into the NHL by a pretentious Snow guarantee.
Why would he guarantee anything to any player? Thats not how to get the most out of a player. What happened to the philosophy that a player should earn his spot and if he earned it he would need to keep it by performing? But this is the NY Isles…We dont know how to manage. This team will never be a winner if the players feel they are guaranteed roster spots…Its fucking ludicrous to do that…It causes complacency…Look at Rolston…he doesnt have to do shit and he is guaranteed a spot…Maybe one day the Isles wont be an embarrassment
How about getting ICE TIME?
How does a player improve expeditiously while getting 4th line ice time?
It's very simple...
Bailey- 22yrs old – Trying hard – Still can have a bright future
Martin- 22yrs old – Trying hard – Still can have a bright future
Rolston- 38 yrs old – Failing, not clicking with linemates- HE’S DONE, ready to retire.
Nino- 19yrs old – Trying hard – Still can have a bright future.
Also note, that Bailey and Martin are RESPONSIBLE defensively.
This is that simple.
My son who is 10 yrs of age, asks why Nino doesn’t play with Bailey and Martin…
I don’t have a logical explanation for him.
by Sal Interlandi on Feb 20, 2012 9:02 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Nino
I was at the Isles-Blues game Thursday night and Nino was one of the few “bright” spots for this Isles fan. I always have faith but talk about next year being a playoff run is a long shot. Just some thoughts Garth:
-Who are next years Mules? anyone under age thirty?
-Why is Paps unsigned? overpay him and he can be one of next years Mules.
-Don’t listen to these so called Isles fans about “Monty”. a true backup goalie.
-Let Poulin play with his Bridgeport defensemen next year. at least he will have some resemblence of a defense in front of him. Poulin and “D” too young? The now “D” is too old. Youngsters can only do better.
***and to all you “Long Islanders” out there: You do not deserve this team – Charles Wang a lousy owner? How much money has the man lost? Sure he has done some crazy things but what does the man have to do to get a new arena? Glad I left 30 years ago. Do the right thing and let the man build a new Islander home…….. I will go to Kansas City to see them!
***and to all you "Long Islanders" out there: You do not deserve this team – Charles Wang a lousy owner? How much money has the man lost? Sure he has done some crazy things but what does the man have to do to get a new arena? Glad I left 30 years ago. Do the right thing and let the man build a new Islander home…….. I will go to Kansas City to see them!
Who the hell are you to tell me that I “dont deserve” my fucking team?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 20, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
It would have been pretty easy to say that- if that was what he meant.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 24, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's the islander fans here that don't want Wang to build a new staidium here on Long Island.
I think it’s the 60yrs+ voting crowd(most whom don’t have hockey team ties) and dirty politicians that are heavily against him. If we could build the stadium for him I think we would. lol
The don’t deserve this team mumbo jumbo is a little much though. You are profiling millions of people into 1 category there. And tons who’ve spent hours and dollars watching islanders games and buying their merchandise.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
by OzzyFan on Feb 20, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you are from KC
shut up and go away
KC doesn’t even merit an AHL team
by Cary K on Feb 20, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Dude, with that comment at the end
us Long Islanders are just as glad that you left 30 years ago.
Us “so called Isles fans” because we like Montoya, who actually played pretty decent up until the concussion? So your opinion is the only correct one? It’s as if I’m reading an arrogant, uninformed Puck Daddy comment.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 22, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is true
Cappy is not helping Nino at all – useless coach
by Cary K on Feb 20, 2012 8:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yup- any good coach can just tell a guy to score goals and play like a top 6 forward and POOF! They do it.
Sit.
Lay down.
Roll over.
Now- score goals!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 20, 2012 9:53 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
no but getting a prospect more ice time
instead of sitting on the bench waiting for the fourth line to get on does not help at all.
A coach is supposed to get the most out of his players...
Now you tell me…Is he doing that? You act like the coaches don’t play a roll in the performance of the team he is coaching…Why do they even have a coach then?
Cappy does not hold players accountable…He lets guys play even if they are not producing. He makes decisions that will make you scratch your head. Such as the early goalie pulls. He called in sick. I have never witnessed a pro-sports coach call in sick in my entire life. Bottom line is this guy does not have the credentials and he proves it every time he trots Rolston out there on Baileys line as well as when he places NINO on the 4th line while Rolston does nothing. BTW, where is Ullstrom? Oh, I forgot, Rolston has to play instead. I could go on and on about how a coach can make a team better or worse. This coach has not been making the team better this year, IMHO…
by KO21 on Feb 24, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll take back my complaints about him calling in sick..
I mean its good that he doesnt spread that shit around the rest of the team
Exactly
I do not understand how fans are not understanding that Cappy is a terrible motivator.
He spreads no passion or fire to the team. He is not succeeding in making these young players better. He is not succeeding in pushing these young players to higher levels of performance.
Cappy is not the HC who will be hoisting the Cup for the Islanders.
I do not understand how fans are not understanding that Cappy is a terrible motivator.
I do not understand how fans who are in actuality completely clueless about what happens between the coach and players manage to convince themselves that they have some kind of psychic insight into whats going on. And I do not understand how guys who are having great seasons can credit how their coaches help them and it is completely ignored by the same people who put more faith in their own imaginations!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Feb 28, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
