The defenseman that could be... +POLL
by kcNYI on Feb 13, 2012 2:45 PM EST
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PrintWe all have our ideas about how to get the coveted "top-4" defenseman the Islanders are in dire need of.
The characteristics this defenseman should have that would best fit our current situation:
-Crease-clearing ability and size
-Relatively young and can be locked up as part of TEH CORE
-Offensive upside to potentially be a powerplay quarterback
I believe in the theory behind trades that you must give a lot to get a lot. These characteristics are hard to come by in 1 player, but I believe that player could be Oliver Ekman-Larsson.
Looking at Phoenix, they are loaded at defensive depth. They boast a solid blueline now, and have 4 young defensive prospects making their claim to play in the NHL - David Rundblad, Connor Murphy, Brandon Gormley, and Maxim Goncharov.
Phoenix doesn't play in our conference - more of a reason to make a trade with us.
The final pitch - Phoenix needs offensive prospects. They have little-to-none.
Ekman-Larsson was 6th overall pick in 2009 and has spent 1.5 years in the NHL already and is proving his ground as a solid NHLer.
I think to acquire him from Phoenix the Islanders should offer Nino Niederreiter and the 2012 2nd and 3rd round picks.
I would also offer Niederreiter, Kabanov, and the 2012 4th round pick.
To me Nino is expendable. Out of Strome, Lee, Nelson, the Kirills, etc. we are bound to find an offensive talent that would replace Nino. The draft picks allow Phoenix to add more offensive depth over time.
Also, adding Ekman-Larsson would give us a top-4 defense made up of Streit, Hamonic, MacDonald, and Ekman-Larsson. Add deHaan, Donovan, Ness and our 2012 1st round draft pick (bound to be a defenseman this year), and we are looking at a much more solid defensive corps.
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I definitely
Like your thinking on this one:
a. finding a young defensemen in a system that is considered pretty deep at the position
b. Being able to lock them up young and cheaply (goes with our mantra.
c. dealing with Phoenix, who lets be honest, is unsure of anything regarding their franchise status.
d. Seems Don Maloney can work with Garth Snow.
I will admit, I do not know much about Oliver Ekman-Larsson, only that he certainly has good size, has offensive instincts, and seems to developing well. The fact that he is young (20) playing for a shaky franchise that plays a tight system definitely makes him worth the conversation.
Here are some quotes from ISS from before his draft:
“Great physical defensive play with great offensive skill and sense. Can be very effective at both ends of the ice. … Has a strong ability to throw some crushing hits and is a very steady performer. He is very difficult to get around as he in impressively mobile and angles out very well.”
- International Scouting Services 2009 NHL Draft Guide
Not sure what I would give up in terms of prospects. But he definitely seems like an anchor 1st pairing defensemen of the future, much in the line of Erik Karlsson. It would be nice to have a good size swede who is smart, great skater, hits, great passer, and rarely makes mistakes. Did we not just celebrate one of these guys the other day at the Barn?
I would give up top offensive Prospect and a pick of some sorts. Or give up perhaps this years 1st/3rd rounder, which will be most likely in the 5 – 10 range after all is said and down.
by ghalbart on Feb 13, 2012 3:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you're trading
a #5 pick, who, at not even 20 is huge and has hands, a 2nd rounder AND a 3rd rounder.. you better be getting something more than a defensive prospect.
Hell, I don’t think I’d do that straight up for Nino, and you think Nino + Kabanov + a pick is fair?
But don’t get me wrong.. I’d be all over this trade if I was MM.
I picked a more overpyament trade...
Because Phonix knows Ekman-Larsson is a denfenseman of the future. You’d have to overpay a bit to get him, but he is worth-while to me.
I feel like we have some expendable offensive-depth, thus trading Nino and two picks doesn’t hurt us much because we keep most of that offensive depth talent (Strome, Lee, Nelson, Kirills, etc etc)
Signed,
Why overpay for anyone?
Especially for a kid. We don’t need a 20 year old anything anymore.
by TA on Feb 13, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Even though he is 20...
Ekman-Larsson is playing above his age.
Yes, he needs another year or two to fully establish himself (much like Hamonic), but if you have MacDonald, Hamonic, and Ekman-Larsson grow together as a corps next year they will provide some solid defense for the next 5-7 years (all of them are RFAs in 2-3 years and will all most likely be signed long term).
I’ve watch Oliver play a few times this year and he is one of those players that gets the game from a defensive standpoint.
Again – overpayment is the only way to get a future top-2 defenseman. Phoenix knows his potential. We definitely will never give up the proper assets to get a current top-2 defenseman. Might as well overpay a little for a player who is bound to be top-2 in the next couple of years.
Signed,
Why wouldn't we give up assets to get a current top-2 dman?
by TA on Feb 13, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Because the price is going to be a lot higher than Garth would like...
Realistically, what do you think the Weber’s, Suter’s, (Jack) Johnson’s, Doughty’s, etc. go for?
You’re looking at Nino, a 1st round draft pick, and a good prospect just to talk about any of them, let alone get a trade through for them.
You’re better off making a trade for a player who is going to grow into a top-2 then trade for someone who has established their self as a top-2. This is still a growing team, so it’s better to let them grow as we grow. Trading for someone established now, will waste a couple of years at their peak while we’re still building and growing into a playoff team.
The reason OEL doen’t get as much attention is because he plays for a small market team in the Western Conference that no one has a clue where they will be.
OEL will be a top-10 league-wide defenseman by the age of 22, mark my word.
Signed,
You may be right.
However, OEL is not even close to the guys you mentioned (yet, aside from Johnson). And overpaying for pr*j*ct**n is almost as Mike Milbury as overpaying for long-ago past performance.
I say hold off on this one for now, unless a very reasonable deal is an option.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 13, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
This isn't picking on you, but never say Jack Johnson is a top pair d-man.
His defense is atrocious. He is an offensive d-man with defensive issues. If you think Wiz was a journey at D, Jack Johnson on D would surprise you. lol
And I agree about you. Comparatively, think of OEL’s value compared with other young somewhat unproven top pairing d-men. Say it’s probably a little bit less than Subban/Karlsson/Pietrangelo. OEL is on the verge of a 11goal/32pts season at 20yrs of age while playing against tough competition and on the 2nd unit PP. The sky could be the limit for this kid.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
well considering our recent trend
of keeping this team young and signing young players to manageable future contracts I think age has a ton to do with the story here.
He is in his 3rd NHL season here and has progressed nicely from some short readings on the internets. He can be locked up for a while and provide us with a great outlet passer, calm defensemen, who can play both sides of the ice. Again he is only 20, he can only get better right? Well we hope anyways. He would most likely see 1st line minutes with Hamonic as a potential pairing and could replace Streit down the road as the QB on the PP.
I'm not saying he's not a very nice player..
I’m saying he’s not worth trading a very nice player plus another pair of prospects or picks for him.
You want to sell me on trading a bunch from the farm for an established dman, I’ll listen, but saying let’s get rid of a bunch of kids to wait for this kid is kind of silly to me.
As I said.. we don’t need any more 20 year olds. Trade for established talent now.
by TA on Feb 13, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
from our past history
it seems whatever we go for does not happen, at least in free agency. Also I agree with you on the sense that if we can via trade get a number 2 defensemen now do it.
I would then say, OEL would come at a cheaper price, would be under our control at much more manageable amount, and for a longer period of time, all this while being younger.
I agree there is no reason to have to trade a guy like Nino, plus another Offensive Player and a pick. I think they would want an offensive player though, one that is either in the League or ready to start next year. They lost Kyle Turris for David Runblad, so they are definitely missing another offensive weapon. I do not like the idea of giving up a top offensive prospect/player, like Nino, but for a guy like OEL it is definitely worth a conversation.
Maybe add a pick or two...
To sweeten the pot if they listen to Nino but want a little more.
Signed,
If they want anything more than Nino
Then no deal. Anything more than that isn’t a good deal for us.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 13, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
I like your idea of a "now" trade
but i just dont see a package deal for one player, and personally i wouldn’t give up nino unless it was a 26 to 32 player (prime age). we need a top 4 d man, and de hann ness katic mayfield and wishart won’t be nhl ready for another 2-4 years (varying not collective). I read some reports on OEL and he does seem to be a good fit, but a player that young, being protected by a serious defense first team makes me wonder what happens when he’s put in a transition type team which the islanders are slowly but surely becoming. the ufa pool for the upcoming season seems light, and sadly, so so sadly, suter or weber probably wont come to the island unless they want money more than a cup. I think the trade could be made with a player like paps (i wouldnt want it but it works) but the isles dont have a lot of nhl prime aged played to ship off and a team like the ‘yotes wont deal for soon to be prospects, and the isles wont give away 1st 2nd and possibly even 3rd rounders while theyre building a pool for consistent winning teams.
a sticky situation, which i strongly believe that snow will do whats right for the team, and what has few negatives and many positives. either way, good post cousin ken. rec’d for sure.
also, will you be home for easter? cause i looking forward to some grandpa lamb and double stuffed potatoes! nomonnomononmom
Mr. Snow, Bring up that Wall!
by The Poulin Wall on Feb 13, 2012 8:12 PM EST reply actions
I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments so far...
I think you guys have influenced me to thinking a straight up trade, Niederreiter for Ekman-Larsson would be best. If needed, sweeten the pot with a 3rd/4th round pick.
We have depth at every forward position.
Time to add a current top-4 dman who will turn into a top-2 in the next few years (OEL).
Signed,
well good subject
definitely is an interesting idea I had not really thought about when it came to acquiring a number 2 defensemen.
If they gave up Turris for Rundblad straight-up
…then I don’t think that OEL would fetch them three pieces. If Maloney requires a sweetener, I would suggest Kirill Petrov, a guy who might never help the Isles at all, but who might be more inclined to go to a place with more room for him. But if the Isles are dealing Nino and Petrov, then OEL had better come back with a 2d-round pick in his gear bag.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Turris was a whole different animal.
Maloney had zero negotiation power, and a player who had no desire to stick around.
All things considered, Maloney made a great deal, getting a good prospect in return for a spoiled brat. If Turris had performed up to his expectations (or say, wanted a contract that reflected a performance and not his potential), it’s very likely Maloney would never have shopped him.
I don't know
I think Maloney bought himself some serious negotiating power by being a BSD about the whole process, forcing Turris to sign and report.
Word was he took Turris off the block with the offers he’d had, which is what forced Ottawa to throw in the extra pick as well as Rundblad.
(I know this is tangential, but I love how Maloney played a bad situation.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I would love to have Ekman-Larsson but at what cost.......
Ekman-Larsson would be a great addition to the ISlanders but I would not give up the kitchen sink for him. If the isles defensive prospects are projected to be as good as we are led to believe, then it would not make any sense to give up a young forward/ picks for him. With Dehaan, Ness, and Donovan in the AHL, and Russo and Mayfield in the NCAA, we will have plenty of young guys coming down the pike.
We have 3 defensive slots to fill next year, provided they do not resign Jurcina, Eaton, and Staios. I would like for them to sign a couple of guys to two year contracts and leave the 6th slot for a combo of the guys currently in the AHL. If we can get a couple of vets, who are in their late 20’s, it will give us a couple years for these guys to hone their talents.
We are never going to get a Suter type in the open market without giving up a ton of picks or prospects. Let’s face it, they are not coming here. However, we might be able to snatch a a guy who is responsible in in own zone and provide some sandpaper, as well as a guy who can provide a solid outlet pass or work the point.
With that said, I would like to see the isles go after a guy like Kurtis Foster and a sandpaper guy like Shane O’Brien. I know that both have their knocks against them but Foster is a big body with a bigger shot and O’Brien is a guy who provide some pop in the corners. Something we do not have in Jurcina (a whole lotta nothing with that frame), Eaton, or Staios. Just my two cents worth
Don't forget that we are likely to pick up a good D prospect in the draft
No need to sell the farm.
No Sleep 'til....We Find Some Secondary Scoring
by Anarcurt on Feb 13, 2012 9:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Not sell the farm per se
But the point of a farm is to grow a good crop. The judicious sale of a few good apples bring in goods the Isles haven’t been able to cultivate themselves.
Gosh this metaphor took on a life of its own, didn’t it.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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I don't think a lot of people realize Ekman-Larsson's value. Besides Yandle, he is the prize defensive piece on that team for the future.
It’s Yandle and him as the face of the D for the future. I think it would take a lot to acquire their prize D prospect, who is starting to look like a solid NHLer already. It’s gonna take more then Nino alone, or more then Strome alone too. You are likely talking Nino(or strome) + a 1st rounder or a package of picks(2nd + 3rd or prospects starting with Nelson). KCNYI is right in that Ekman-Larsson has all the makings of a future top pair guy(right now). His value is gonna be high, probably too much unless Garth really thinks we need heavy D help in our system/future.
But as Anacurt said, this year we already are gonna get a solid future top 4 d-man in the draft(barring winning the lottery), so it should only be done if the Isles/Snow thinks our D prospect group is heavily barren and we have a lot more O talent(which we do).
That said, you ask me if I would trade Nino and a 1st for Ekman-Larsson? I’d probably say no. We are really weak at D in our system, and they take the longer time to develop when compared to forwards. But we are getting a top 4 D in this draft, and Nino + a top 4 D prospect is worth more to us then Ekman-Larsson alone imo.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I never mentioned Nino and a 1st round pick...
I did say Nino, a 2nd round, and a 3rd round pick …then later changed my mind to Nino for OEL, and if needed throw in a 2nd or 3rd round pick as a sweetener.
OEL for Nino gives us a future top-2 defenseman for a future top-6 forward. I only say top-6 because Nino still has to prove himself. OEL is becoming more proven each and every game he plays.
Signed,
I know, it's just that OEL's value is so high that it would take Nino and a 1st to get him.
I like the idea of a 2nd and 3rd with Nino, but that wouldn’t do it for a near future top pairing d-man. It’s Nino + a 1st rounder for them to think about it. Nino is so unproven and OEL looks a step or 2 away from being an everyday top pairing d-man.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
This trade just isn't happening.
While the Coyotes have defensive depth coming, they have old guys on their way out. OEL is playing top 2 minutes at 20 years old and looks like a Vet most of the time. He’s going nowhere.
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JaredFromLondon: ...Odin, he's cool.
In all reality, I'd think he's untouchable for you guys. You have him locked down for a lot of years and starting to be proven more and more.
He’s already coming out on top against top 4 competition, top pairing competition would be next. He’s got everything you want in a top pairing d-man, size/skating/defensive and offensive reliability/etc. I think it’d take a lot or high-end pieces to pull him.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
I agree it's wildly unlikely
And we thank you for stopping in to contribute. If you were going to give someone up out of your defensive prospect pool, whom would it be and what would you like to get back?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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I like the way your thinking
Target teams with some defensive system depth.
St. Louis was another, ironically (they originally dealt Rundblad for the pick that landed them Tarasenko), but their crew is more settled/headed to free agency now.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
They got 6 good young horses in the stable.
Yandle and Ekman-Larsson are their top 2 D. But lo and behold they have 4 studs on the way. I knew about Gormley and Rundblad, but I forgot about Connor Murphy and have never heard of Maxim Goncharov.
I just took a quick peek at hockeysfuture.com, and it looks like Gormley is the blue chip of the group who is expected, along with Rundblad, to round out the top 4. After that you have Goncharov, who has been inconsistent in the AHL at 22, and Murphy, who was still shiny brand new from the ’11 draft before getting summer knee surgery and has only played 20 OHL games this season.
Not sure if any of these 6 players play a physical game. What I do know, for those of you craving size and a RH D, is that Rundblad, Murphy and Goncharov are RH and 6’2, 6’3 and 6’4 respectively…
Dom, is it just us, or is this a no-brainer? Meaning, the Isles and Coyotes have a surplus of blue chips of the other team’s needs. That, along with Garth having good dealing history with Maloney, makes this a perfect fit. Does any other Western Conference team match up better with us than this?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
The only team I could find was the Coyotes...
I looked at all the Western teams and looked for the following:
1). Teams in need of offensive prospects or players.
2). Teams who are between the 7th and 12th spot in their conference and wouldn’t be hurt by a loss of a defenseman.
3). Teams that have adequate youth to fill the loss of a defenseman.
Phoenix is the perfect team for us to make a trade for a younger but NHL-ready defenseman. Maybe Kabanov + 2012 2nd round pick for Rundblad.
Signed,
Great work!
Very intriguing…I suppose both GM’s are aware of this, and are perhaps either waiting for their ‘chips’ to mature before trading one or haggling/disagreeing on which ‘ponies’ turn into thoroughbreds and which will turn into donkeys…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Here's the answer to my post on other page...
OEL for Nabby and (fill-in-the-blank).
Smith in goal for Coyotes is not going to get them deep in the play-offs. But maybe Nabby can (finally) take a team deep.
Since our chances are pretty low of getting there.
Defenseman trade
Who could we get for Bailey and a draft choice?
by Rumpelstiltskin on Feb 14, 2012 9:45 PM EST reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
