Isles Missing Grit, Not Toughness
by mk841923 on Feb 13, 2012 8:46 AM EST
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As it continues to seem the islanders get outplayed on a nightly basis even in their recent wins, I will discuss something that has plagued the islanders for years, since their last true playoff series against the leafs and cannot be defined by adding haley to the team for his toughness. The islanders lack grit. Granted this team needs more goal scorers(26th in the NHL in goals) and it is ALWAYS easier to teach a goal scorer to check, then a checker to score, but the islanders lack the players who throw there body around a little, get dirty, and aren’t afraid to back down to a team. Playoff hockey is defined by intensity and the Islanders have not built a team like this since the 80’s or during our playoff year against the Leafs.
Think of these names for a moment, Gillies, Nystrom, Scatchard, Cairns, webb, peca, isbister, aucoin, hell even throw in players like bates, and parrish, these players had aggression that today’s islanders do not have. Today’s Islanders are the “nice” guys that are well-spoken, smart and far from intimating. Look at the Smurfs for instance. They got a team this year who fights for every inch and will take more if needed. They will use the body, work in corners, check when needed and stick up for one another.
The islanders lack heart on some nights. Which is either because they really aren’t a good team and just surprise us with a mediocre playoff chase or because they lack the players who can score but will work for their efforts. Nino is a player who comes to mind who will one day hit, score and play the body with his skill set. Just think for a moment realistically, can you see any current islanders besides moulson and select few others would would look good with playoff beards and have the true hockey look. Didn’t think so.
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Hmm
If you don’t think the Isles first line isn’t all about grit, I’m not sure if you know what grit is. JT, KO, PAP certainly have it (you already included Moulson), martin, too. I’d even say Bailey is starting to show signs of being a gritty player, too. Wallace, Padno and Nino have their impressive moments too, grit wise.
Also: Isbister wasn’t grit.
I’m not worried about the grit on this team, at all. I think most of the issues that plague this team stem from either the poor defense corp and the secondary scoring woes. If we had 10-15 more goals from the 2nd and 3rd line, we’d be right in the heart of the playoff hunt right now.
Your Right
Isbister was just a big body don’t know why i put him in there.
also agree about the players you mention, not saying you need a whole team of gritty players, we just havent grown enough yet so maybe i’ll wait a year. Do love bailey’s play as of late-
Really?
Holding Brad Isbister up as an example of anything other than being a major disappointment is misguided. You know what team was gritty but couldn’t score for shit? Ted Nolan’s Islanders. I’d rather sit through this losing but promising season than watch Mike Comrie score a wicked 49 points again and the Islanders squeak into the playoffs. TEH GRITZ will come, it’s just hanging out in Bridgeport, juniors, and college right now.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Feb 13, 2012 9:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What we're really talking about when we talk about "grit," "toughness," "get dirty," etc.
is “punching people in the face.” Is this correct? Because that seems like the basic common denominator throughout all of these types of posts. Because I see a team that goes into corners and fights for the puck game-in-and-game-out. I don’t see a team that punches people in the face that often. So that must be the issue.
No team needs to do that to be successful. Do a lot of teams play that way? Yes. Are they successful? Yes. Are there 1,000 different ways to play the game using different players, techniques, strategies, etc. Yes, yes and yes.
“They need to punch people in the face” isn’t the answer to every single lost game or slumping player. I don’t give a shit about how many people get punched in the face as long as the Islanders win. Yeah, the Dynasty teams had grit to spare. But they were preceded by another dynasty, the late 70’s Habs, who won mostly by scoring a shitload of goals and preventing them with great regularity. The Islanders were followed by the Oilers, and for all the huffing and puffing about Dave Semeko’s cement hands, were best known for scoring two shitloads of goals a game.
I’ll worry about the Islanders playoff intensity when they actually make the playoffs.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 13, 2012 10:38 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
And what of the sandpaper?
Why hasn’t anyone thought of sandpaper?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Feb 13, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like "moxey"
But I’ll accept “gumption.”
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 13, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The easiest way to add grit would be this suggestion. But of course Garth won't make the obvious move to better the team.
SIGN ME UP FOR THIS!
It comes in 60, 100, 220… even 400 gritz!!
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
by Turgeon1992 on Feb 13, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Punching People In the face
Idk what games you watch but the islanders get mandhandled in the corners/ barely sit in front of the net besides moulson and martin. No Wonder bottom 10 in goals for and goals against
this.
why is it so hard for people to see? grit? toughness? whatever. its semantics. just watch them play and whatever it is you want to call it, they dont have it.
So what you're saying the only thing separating us from the playoffs
Is toughness? Toughness puts pucks in the net? Toughness makes Nino progress quicker? Toughness makes Rolston 400 years younger, causes free agents to sign here, and gives us consistent goaltending?
Oh, I see it.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 13, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The missing ingredient
just watch them play and whatever it is you want to call it, they dont have it.
Enough talent?
By Bossy I think you’re right!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I know that AP77 will have an answer to this................
but I believe that size often equates to toughness and grit. There are exceptions on both sides of course. Take Jurcina and some say Wishart as examples of big guys who don’t play that way. or say an Avery [who I don’t like] but is very pesky and not big. However our team and especially our D is small by league average and unfortunately out BPT prospects are not big either, although the other players further down the pipeline are bigger on average. I believe we were pushedaround in the last two games even though we won one of them.
We must inform the organization to add them to the pregame meal immediately
Definitely a poster at Lighthouse Hockey until 2015, then maybe somewhere else.
by ArsenalLI on Feb 13, 2012 12:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The Isles should hire someone who takes pride in his grits
Success was survival and, kid, it still is
by IslesFanInNJ on Feb 13, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm reminded of this classic passage
Montgomery Burns: “Now I want to assure those whose names are not on the list that I’m very disappointed in you. Something was lacking. Let’s call it…heart.”
Darryl Strawberry: “No hustle either, Skip.”
Montgomery Burns: “That’s right, Darryl!”
=d
DAR-RYL! DAR-RYL! DAR-RYL!
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just Curious
Have anyone seen the Rangers this year? They are not only talented, but they also are the toughest team in the league this year. I’m sure that Torts could find better skaters than Rupp, for example, but even though they’re tough without him, he still plays. since when has NY Islanders fans been content having the weakest team in the NHL? I find it disgraceful. I’ll bet that if one of our non combative stars gets a separated shoulder, due to some “grinder” from another team who has no fear whatsoever of any repercussion from this years Islander team, the conversation will change. Bring up Haley, Gallant AND Gillies and let’s get back to playing Islander hockey, before it’s too late and we lose someone. It’s not like we’re the Redwings and so awsome that no one would dare take a penalty against us……..BRING THEM UP!
A disgraceful assumption
since when has NY Islanders fans been content having the weakest team in the NHL?
When people stop making massive leaps in logic like this one, underlined by a campaign for calling up three players who collectively could not get the puck out of their own zone at the NHL level, then I’ll start taking more seriously their deep, unending cry that more Haleys will fix all ills.
Bring up Haley, Gallant AND Gillies and let’s get back to playing Islander hockey, before it’s too late and we lose someone.
The problem is you’re asserting an If A, Then B that is not only unprovable but a stretch at best. Here is a fact: Stars get hurt with or without [insert cliche for massive testicles here]. Dirty bastards run stars with or without [repeat cliche, or choose another one] — most of whom suck at the NHL level — in the lineup to protect them. This elusive quality is a collective phenomenon hard to peg, hard to fix.
I think most people who are skeptical of the BRING THE GRITZ argument are not, in fact, in favor of a team that doesn’t go to the net or doesn’t stand up for itself. Rather, they see that as a minor need among many needs, and one that cannot be easily addressed without hurting other more important areas of the team.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Time Wallace and Brian Rolston = Important
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 6:53 AM EST up reply actions
I think I agree on the "go to the net" part
I’d like to see more of it…and definitely would like to see the defense do some more punishing, but I do feel like the boards and corner work is pretty good.
The problem I think though is that you are still basically talking about boys playing against men…and old men playing against younger men. I believe this team will get tougher, smarter and better, but at their size and relatively non-battle prepped experience shows, they’re not there yet. The problem is that TEH GRITZ are bad hockey players, so right now, one or the other will suffer.
Again, you aren’t playing Haley witn Nielsen and Grabner to open up space. You aren’t putting Gallant in to be the physical presence on Bailey’s wing. So all of those guys will be opening up space for and protecting Jay Pandolfo…which may yield another goal by the end of the season, but most likely, will generate several misconducts in the meantime.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Feb 13, 2012 11:43 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The toughness isn't coming
Wang will do whatever it takes to seperate himself from the Pens game last year, while most of us sit there every game hoping the kids don’t get their heads removed from their shoulders. And before you people bash me as acting ike I know what Wang is thinking or doing, it’s just my opinion.
So all of those guys will be opening up space for and protecting Jay Pandolfo…which may yield another goal by the end of the season, but most likely, will generate several misconducts in the meantime.
So Haley didn’t come to Hammer’s aid against Avery last season? He couldn’t have. They weren’t on the ice at the same time, right? Come on, man. And I will take a misconduct over a JT concussion.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 6:49 AM EST reply actions
He got lucky coming off the bench
and that’s a defenseman…and Hamonic at that…who probably would’ve pummeled Avery himself. I hear you, I like it, but I still don’t think it would prevent much or that he would see much time with guys who actually worth protecting.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
It's all luck, right
And once again, all the NHL players who say it does something must be wrong.
You’re welcome to your opinion, but I expect a writer at this site to have a better reply to a point, than “he got lucky.”
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
lulz
I guess it’s Keith’s fault that you didn’t understand what he posted. And Hamonic was definitely shaking in his skates at the thought of Avery — definitely.
Seriously, Keith, I expect better — GFY. :)
=d
Hamonic could kill Avery :-)
You could probably kill Avery. :-)
Doesn’t mean we need Hamonic fighting. :-)
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Hamonic could kill Avery :-)
You could probably kill Avery. :-)
Doesn’t mean we need Hamonic fighting. :-)
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
damn, didn't mean to post that twice.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I meant lucky at the timing
and at avoiding a suspension for coming off the bench to fight.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
who probably would’ve pummeled Avery himself
So you don’t want Haley getting a five minute major but Hamonic is okay to get one? That’s the whole point I guess.. I can’t wait to get reasoner back.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
No, of couse not
point being that there wasn’t any real threat or imminent danger there. In the end of it, I thoroughly enjoyed that beating and I was the one that made the video and gif of it. The flip side of that could’ve also been an Islander PP that Hamonic drew. In that game obviously they didn’t need it (I believe that was a 6-2 win), but at other times, it may be crucial.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Keith, if our 4th line had two good 4th liners on it...
like sayyyyy Drew Miller and John Madden…I think then Haley and his crazy-kill-you factor would be good for this team with little detriment to our GAA. Thoughts?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I think that would work
as long as our 2nd and third lines and defense also had some good players on it! :) He could probably even work on a 4th that had Nate Thompson and Richard Park on it.
I’m no passivist. I just don’t think this stuff prevents much, it doesn’t “open up space” unless the guy is actually on that line, and in the end of it, most of those guys are defensive liabilities.
In his defense, I think Haley is a better hockey player than a lot of the “enforcer” types in the league. However, the team he plays for is not better at a lot of things than other teams in the league. Therefore, he becomes a casualty of a team that can’t support him as well.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
The Devils, Rangers and Flyers have
At Least two legitimate heavies suiting up on a nightly basis, to go along with a couple of Matt Martin’s as well . We have ONE Matt Martin. Seriosly, do we want our “skill” players looking over their shoulders every night, wondering if this will be the night? Or, don’t we want people like Bailey, Moulson, JT, KO, etc…running around the ice, hitting everything in site, to go along with their other skills, and not have to worry about taking a public beating for doing so? Putting one or two heavyweights in our lineup would up the aggression factor for everybody else, tenfold. Thus, more scoring!
I agree, and feel Reasoner has not come close to Konopka
we let Z leave so that Reasoner could provide some scoring along with faceoffs
He has done neither Z had more hits, a ton more PIM, and even scored more
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
