No toughness
by floyd19 on Feb 11, 2012 6:54 PM EST
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Watching todays game made me miss last years team. Watching the boys get pummeled today with no recourse. Parentau likes to jaw and look tough but you and the other team no he isnt going to do anything, Martin has been dropping the gloves less frequently and never seems to win any of the fights he is in.
So i would like to get thoughts on why Micheal Haley is not on the team. I know the main reason is because he doesnt score but neither does Pandolfo or Rolston. I feel Haley would be much more useful on that fourth line than either of those two and he would at least give some back bone to this team.
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I don't see toughness being the problem
I see the inability of the defense to get out of the defensive zone and create scoring chances with the transition game. It has improved in the last few weeks however it is far from adequate. If we add toughness to the line up then we will take more penaties and lose more games. that’s why Kenopka is a senator.
this comment is awaiting moderation!!!
Agreed on Haley
The guy takes too many PIM’s. Pando is defensively superior to Haley and our GA is why we’re sniffing the even postseason right now. Rolston is here cause of his cap hit…
When I go out on the ice I am at peace. This is my best element. No one can talk to me. No one can bother me. I just go play. That is why I love it so much - Chris Osgood
"I don't see toughness being the problem"
LOL. wow, what the hell are you watching?
by ripcurl2121 on Feb 13, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What are you doing here?
I thought you were watching Bridgeport.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 13, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We're watching a team that struggles to score goals
What are you watching?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
I dont know where to begin with this and how it is categorically wrong
If we add toughness to the line up then we will take more penaties and lose more games.
I'm afraid the team is set for the rest of the season
I see your point, but Snow spent serious money on the over the hill gang both on D and on the bottom six forwards. Hopefully next season we will see a tougher D, and promotions from BGT, but the crowd down there is not realy tough besides Haley, so in my opinion if there is money available perhaps we will trade for or get an FA or two to fill out a talented team, but one that is still short of play-off caliber.
Yeah. 10 games under NHL .500 was awesome. I miss that.
Lighthouse Hockey. Where Islanders fans come to panic with punctuation.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Feb 11, 2012 10:44 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
Funny post, but they weren't 10 games under 500 when Haley played last year.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
It looks like 11-10-6 when he was in the lineup
He played 27 of the last 28 games. They were 13-13-2 in the 28 games immediately prior. They were 5-16-5 to open the year.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Yep, so that's not 10 games below nhl 500
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
The second half was an aberration, you think?
I dont. I think they should’ve left the team alone…
I don't think it's a major problem, but I'd definitely like Haley as an everyday 4th liner over Wallace.
Or maybe Pandolfo(who has been playing better) given we have Nielsen/Grabs/Martin/Bailey for the PK already and it would be nice to inject some more toughness and “protection” to this unphysical/ungritty overall team. I really don’t see much reason as to why we should have Wallace over Haley on the 4th line.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
The team is hot now, so I wouldn't make too many changes, but to nitpick, I would cut Rolston and Pandolfo, and send Wallace to Bridgeport. I would then call up Cizikas, Haley, and put Rahkshani back in. Leaving us with:
Moulson-Tavares-Okposo
Grabner-Nielsen-Parenteau
Martin-Bailey-Rahkshani
Niederreiter-Cizikas-Haley.
You’re ok with a 4th line that has less than, what? 100 nhl games under their belt?
The old guys may be OLD.. but the young guys should be getting, you know… older.
by TA on Feb 12, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They have to get experience at the NHL level somehow. May as well be now, when they can get a couple of months under their belt and prove that they should be here next year.
Also, I love the infusion of talent for the “playoff push.” Cizikas is on fire right now, he’s earned a shot. He is better than Pandolfo right now.
May be so
Is Haley really better than Pandolfo on the 4th line?
Is having Cizikas up for 2 months getting 8 minutes a game instead of 20 in Bridge better for him at this point? Is it that much better for us?
When the playoff hopes are done I’d be all for these moves. But unless we have a major meltdown, Snow will be a buyer this trade deadline. No way the kids get handed the keys in this scenario.
by TA on Feb 12, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think giving them fourth line time is handing them the keys. And yes, Haley is better than Pandolfo at this point. But it's really Haley vs. Wallace; it's Cizikas vs. Pandolfo, and Cizikas is definitely the better player now.
If we’re shooting for the playoffs, I want the best player playing. Cizikas has looked good enough in Bridgeport that he’s earned a shot to make the Islanders better now.
Was comparing by position, really.
Wallace doing fine in the NHL > Cizikas doing great in the AHL.
The role of the 4th line might seem insignificant, especially on the score sheet and in responsibility, but I sure feel better having Wallace/Pandolfo away from home, when I know they’ll be matched up against a top line. Or at home, when, at the very least, we need them to hit the red line and get things deep.
Having 3 rookies on one line makes me uncomfortable. Wallace may not have much NHL experience, but he’s 27. He’s been playing hockey far longer and he hasn’t blown his time here.
I’d love to give Cizikas a look, and I really wouldn’t be disagreeing with you if the team wasn’t back at .500 working with what they have.
by TA on Feb 12, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
I see what you're saying. I just think the Islanders are in a good position here.
They are in it enough to call these games “meaningful,” yet are far enough out that they can give Cizikas, who has been arguably the AHL’s best player the last month or so, a chance. I think he’s going to play a big bottom six role starting next year, and I’d rather him get two months of real, intense NHL play, rather than test him during training camp against other teams AHLers. And if he plays poorly/not ready yet? You can always send him down, and like you said, he’d be a fourth liner, so his struggles, while unlikely, wouldn’t kill the team. His ceiling is much higher than Pandolfo’s, so while we’re shooting for the playoffs, there’s a chance this kid could provide the spark, and maybe even a little secondary scoring, that could get the Islanders closer to/into the playoffs.
Watching todays game made me miss last years team.
I’m sure by that you mean only in terms of grit. I can’t really see any other reason to opine for last year’s team.
I know the main reason is because he doesnt score but neither does Pandolfo or Rolston.
Haley is an enforcer plain and simple, while Rolston and Pandolfo are supposed to bring other, perhaps more important things to the team. Pandolfo has been decent on the PK and is a good grinder, while Rolston is supposed to be a PP qb with a decent shot.
Thinking practically and not emotionally, I don’t think throwing Haley into the lineup for a few minutes a game will not improve our most pressing issues (secondary scoring and defense). If you want to argue for benching one of these guys, the slot would be much better filled by a prospect (Ness, Rhett, Katic, ect…). If we had more depth, I’d agree that the team could use some grit, but until then, the best team we can field definitely would not include Haley or Gilles on a regular (or even semi-regular) basis.
by potvins_cups on Feb 12, 2012 1:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Holy spelling bees Batman!
other team no he isn’t going
“know.” Sorry, that shit bothers me. Don’t mind me.
Anyway, the toughness thing is truly overrated. Do we need some? Sure. It would be nice to have a guy that could’ve pounded the shit out of Doughty today when he slashed, high-sticked, elbowed, cross-checked, and possibly punched (if I remember correctly) Parenteau within a 15-second span. And I’m sure Martin would have done so had he not been off the ice.
We’re winning games with the squad we have, toughness or not. Rolston absolutely needs to go, but I’d rather see Ullstrom up instead of Haley. Toughness is nice, but not at the cost of losing. Last season, we lead the league in penalty minutes if I’m not mistaken (too lazy to check). This season we have toward the fewest PIMs in the league, and the discipline is good. It took away our goon reputation, which, in my opinion, is huge. It’s one less thing for the media to berate us about and another opportunity for them to expose the positives, which will be key in attracting free agents.
Don’t get me wrong, last season’s brawl was awesome. I loved the way we fought back. But I think teams saw we can fight back now, and that we have weapons waiting in Bridgeport if we need them. I doubt we’re the only team that other teams get chippy against. And if other teams wanna get angry and make stupid decisions in the process, I would MUCH rather the Islanders strike back by capitalizing on those stupid decisions and win games we don’t deserve to like today’s game. That leaves far more of a lasting impression than kicking some fourth liner’s ass.
by sayvillelax94 on Feb 12, 2012 1:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sorry but it wasnt a spelling error but more of a homophone error or what most people would incorrectly call a homonym.
Typing too fast i guess.
by floyd19 on Feb 12, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Torrey on Bossy
When Bill Torrey had to decide whether to draft Mike Bossy, a scorer who couldn’t check, or another forward who could check but wasn’t a scorer, Al Arbour convinced him to draft Bossy because it’s easier to teach a scorer to check than it is to teach a checker to score. This should teach us that we need talent and secondary scoring more than toughness. It’s harder to teach a guy like Haley to be a goal scorer in the NHL than it is to teach a guy who has great potential as a goal scorer to check.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 12, 2012 2:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
True we had talent during the cup years...
but we always had grit!!! Bobby Ny, Gilles and Howard.
Furthermore, is it truly overrated? The Bruins didn’t beat the Canucks on pure skill, they beat them with grit and toughness first and nullified their skill. We obviously need more skill to get secondary scoring, but don’t dismiss the “GRIT”.
Also, the 19 consecutive series wins were accomplished by winning at any style, if you wanted to play a skating/skill game or fighting/grinding we could match them either way.
My point is to succeed we need a blend of both.
In loving memory;Dad thanks for making us Islanders fans, ACC 1918-2011
by bossy2219 on Feb 12, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There's a reason a guy like Gillies is in the Hall of Fame, and it's not just for socking Terry O'Reilly
It’s not just for being a skating wrecking ball. Jethro was a complete package. A lot of times the “moar tuffness” plea is reduced to a desire to see marginal-or-worse players on the Islanders just because they throw checks and punch unruly opponents.
Not saying that this is what’s happening with this thread, but it bears repeating – be cautious with teh gritz. Nystrom and Clarkie and Howatt were actually fairly good players as well as being tough customers. The Bruins have the same thing going for them with Lucic, Chara, and Horton, among others. That kind of a player is tough to find. Had they not been good players as well, sure, they probably still “nullify the Canucks’ skill” but at the cost of having enough skill to take advantage of it.
In my observation, the Isles don’t lose that often because other teams are tougher or grittier, they lose because they don’t quite have the depth to overcome other teams’ attempts to slog down the offense. They hit back well enough most nights, and without taking dumb penalties.
If Martin’s offensive abilities continue to develop, and Nino matures into the player the Isles envisioned when they drafted him, we’re going to notice this grit gap shrink considerably all of a sudden.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
We are saying the same thing..
Yes it’s not easy to find the Gilles, Lucic, Chara and Tonelli’s of hockey but that is what we need. The GRIT with skill, which was my point.
The Gritz alone will bring us back to Nolan’s team, no thanks:).
I’ve been an Islander fan from day one (yes I getting old) and I can see the parallel’s to the teams that started to turn around compared to the current team. I feel we are coming full circle (only our D corps is behind in the rebuild) and when we find the Sutter’s and Tonell’s to fill the second/third line to give us skill/grit we will be fine. I feel JT and Hamonic have it we just need a few more to balance out the lines.
Your point with Martin and Nino I agree with, I would love for one of the kids to become the next Tonelli, he wasn’t just a complete player, he would elevate his game when it mattered most. It ‘s a process the kids must go through, I just hope we end up with the John Tonell type and not Isibister and Kvasha’s. Please Lord hear my prayers :)
In loving memory;Dad thanks for making us Islanders fans, ACC 1918-2011
by bossy2219 on Feb 13, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you
That’s what I thought you were getting at, I just wanted to make sure of what I was seeing. A lot of teams have gotten ruined by settling for tough guys who were only OK players. The Isles’ own draft history has some doozies.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
This is a tough subject to discuss around here...
But I believe we need to toughen up…The way this team is constructed we would get pummeled in a playoff atmosphere…
Some individuals take the tough/grit argument as....
if we are referring to the entire team, I can only speak for myself and say I feel it applies to some NOT all the players.
In loving memory;Dad thanks for making us Islanders fans, ACC 1918-2011
A large % of the players on this team do not play with an physical edge...
KO started too and he tapered off…We have one of the biggest guys in the league, Juice, on defense, he has his moments but his size is not utilized…The only really physical players are Hammer, Martin, and Nino…The rest of them think they can play as if its pond hockey…
Agree
Unfortunately what we have in BPT is not toughness in general. Snow has woken up in the last few drafts and further down the pipeline we will be bigger, better and tougher, – question is where will those players be playing a few years from now when we have that mix? I hope in the NY area!
mmmm, haley doesnt score?
hat trick the other night, 12 goals in half a season last year, and over 30 in juniors one year. if he got legitmate minutes with decent line mates he would get some goals and points in the nhl. plus he’s tough, which is a quality non existent on this team. haley has 10x the talent, and brings way more than as a scrub like wallace
Goalies score 30 goals in juniors.
No way does Haley get top two line minutes. And before the last game, Haley had 5 goals in 30+ contests. Mic Vakoda scored a hat trick once, too. In 230 games as a pro, he has 60 pts.
The guy has energy and is charismatic, sure, but don’t paint him to be what he isn’t.
by TA on Feb 13, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So not only call him up but have him take grabners spot on the 2nd line? Or were you thinking wed be a 35 goal year from him paired with JT?
No thanks.
by TA on Feb 15, 2012 8:34 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
He had 2 goals in 30 games
I don’t think 5 goals a year refutes my point
by TA on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
How many goals do Reasoner, Wallace and Pandalfo have. You know the guys you are defending?
The whole he can’t score take is so overused and so wrong it’s unreal when you consider the guys who are on the 4th line now.
And he had 2 goals in 27 games, playing about 6 minutes a night.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Youre right. Shouldnt have rounded up. Then again, i could site his career stats and push it over 40 games.
The point i was making is hes not a goal scorer. Neither is pando or reasonser, which i didnt claim them to be. Not sure why you think im defending them.
Wasnt arguing the merits of having him in the lineup, but just the claim that hes a point producer; because he hasnt been since hes had to shave regularly.
by TA on Feb 15, 2012 10:38 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Nobody said he was a "point producer"
Or maybe you missed that.
Once again, we are just loling at all the peope who use his scoring prowess as a reason not to have him when the guys who are here in his place aren’t even as good as his goon ass at scoring goals. Once again, we are just loling at all the peope who use his scoring prowess as a reason not to have him when the guys who are here in his place aren’t even as good as his goon ass at scoring goals
Rolston has 4 goals this season and 2 were empty netters, yet he still has a place on this team. You can be okay with, some of us aren’t.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
ooookay
Rip starts the thread posting his numbers and saying he can produce. KO feels with more ice time hed contribute more.
Not sure why you think were not talking about. Would you feel better if i said Haley AND Rolston arent goal scorers?
by TA on Feb 15, 2012 11:12 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
yes, he started the thread and talked about Haley's toughness
Watching todays game made me miss last years team. Watching the boys get pummeled today with no recourse. Parentau likes to jaw and look tough but you and the other team no he isnt going to do anything, Martin has been dropping the gloves less frequently and never seems to win any of the fights he is in.
So i would like to get thoughts on why Micheal Haley is not on the team. I know the main reason is because he doesnt score but neither does Pandolfo or Rolston. I feel Haley would be much more useful on that fourth line than either of those two and he would at least give some back bone to this team.
Nothing about being a “point producer” in there. Or a “goal scorer.”
I guess you want me to type one more time it was a response to the rest of you who have used secondary scoring as an excuse not to have him here? Would that make you happy?
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
he even says in there that he "doesnt score"
No reason to stick with facts, we will just make stuff up, like nobody else can read it.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
i really should have to explain how these forums work.
“mmmm, haley doesnt score?
hat trick the other night, 12 goals in half a season last year, and over 30 in juniors one year. if he got legitmate minutes with decent line mates he would get some goals and points in the nhl. plus he’s tough, which is a quality non existent on this team. haley has 10x the talent, and brings way more than as a scrub like wallace
ripcurl2121 | Posted 1 day ago”
Maybe you think im posting in another conversation chain? It all stems from this. Really dont know where the confusion is.
by TA on Feb 15, 2012 11:49 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
So you're agitating for grit
And the best reason you have for bringing up a gritty player is – WAIT FOR IT -
He can also score goals.
You just gave the rest of the board sunburn with this Blinding Flash of the Obvious. Try to warn us next time, ok?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Feb 13, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No I think he is arguing the score thing because our 4th line has 3 goals combines all year
And all of you use secondary scoring as a reason not to have Haley on our team. Nobody who wants haley wants him for goals, they are just loling at all you talking about how we need to keep the guys we got now, so you can all tow the company line.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
All right
First of all, it’s TOE the line. As in, step up to but do not cross.
Second, I don’t know if anybody wants secondary scoring from a fourth line, not if they want to see a good hockey team. You just want them not to disgrace themselves. They spell the other players for 7-10 minutes, avoid dumb penalties, and whatever they do score is pure gravy. Secondary scoring on this team is guys like Grabner, Neilsen, Bailey, and Parenteau.
You can LOL all you like, but we’re all talking at cross purposes right now. I’m protesting the thought that Haley solves both our middle-six problems as well as our fourth-line problems. He might be the answer to the one, but he’s definitely not the answer to the other. When ripper says “but Haley can score too” and wants to see him with “decent line mates” so he can… well, what? Is he going to outscore Frans with PAP and Grabs on his wings? The man was on a nine-point pace last year. As bad as Reasoner’s been this year – worst year of his career in a many respects – he’s still on pace for more than that, and has value on faceoffs and PK that Haley does not.
That’s all I mean here. Call him up by all means, have him here in place of Rolston, who apparently turned 63 during the offseason. But that still leaves the Isles with a sizeable problem that he can’t really fix – they need more than JT, Matty, and PAP as reliable scoring threats. They need Bailey and Martin to get into the 40-point range, and Okposo and Grabner to finish a bit more, and they need at least one more quality defenseman so the third-pair types aren’t playing more than 15 minutes a night.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Feb 15, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Secondary scoring on this team is guys like Grabner, Neilsen, Bailey, and Parenteau.
You forgot about Rolston.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
Heheheheheh
I only wish I could.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
MI, thanks for the post and not making up quotes, it's refreshing
But nobody thinks Haley will solve anything. that’s not why we want him.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
That was a reply to mikb.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Dude
Wallace hasn’t been there in what 30 games? He’s still ahead of Haley in scoring. http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=skaters&subType=4&season_id=37&leagueId=4&lastActive=&singleSeason=&confId=0
I mean, I’m a Haley fan, but this is just wrong. Wallace is a two time 20 goal scorer in the AHL and was on pace for over 30 this year. I’m just not sure his 30 goals in his overage junior year in ’06 is ever going to really translate here.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Feb 14, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Marty Reasoner - 35 games, no goals, minus 16 (minus 16?)
Brian Rolston – 43 games 4 goals 8 points, with tons of PP time and minus 11.
Tim Wallace 31 games, 0 goals, and 1 assist – 7.
Last year in 27 games, Haley had 2 goals, 1 assist and was a minus 7.
In 39 games Gillies had 2 goals and was a minus 3.
Thank God we have these guys for “secondary scoring.”
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 7:05 AM EST up reply actions
We had no reason to expect Reasoner to be as bad as he’s been and he has more of a track record than any of our AHL guys.
Rolston is terrible. He’s not invisible as some have suggested. The guys up in 329 notice him and scream about how old he is and how he sucks.
One of Haley’s goals was the one that put us up 6-0 over the Pens last year in the middle of Ferocious Friday. Watching the replay of it, it looks like the defenseman and goalie kind of gave up in the middle. He’s a PIM magnet.
Gillies is not a good player at all, he’s an imposing one. One of his goals was a flukey redirection that wouldn’t have happened if we weren’t up 5-1 on the Rangers at the time, he wouldn’t have been on the ice in another situation. I give Dylan Reese credit for that goal.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
lol
You made my point for me. Of course they’re not goals scorers. And they still had more golas than your boy Reasoner.
Watching the replay of it, it looks like the defenseman and goalie kind of gave up in the middle.
I so wish i could make this same excuse for Reasoner and Wallace. But they haven’t scored a goal!!!
I love how you make excuses for the goons goals, but maybe Reasoner never gets a break like that? You know why? Because he doesn’t care. The goons at least give effort. Anybody who is trying can be in the right place at the right time. (even though your explanation of Haley’s goal was complete bs.)
I was almost alone with my view of toughness on this board at the beginning of the year. Nice to see that is changing. I just hope something bad doesn’t happen before the rest of you wake up.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I've always had your back on this subject...
We are a passive team and look what that gets us…Our goalies get run over all the time except recently…Our star player, Tavares, gets cheap shotted all the friggen time…I’m tired of watching JT getting agitated…He shouldn’t be cross checking opposing players out of frustration…That’s a job for Haley to take care of…Martin used to stand up but these days he turns the other cheek…Some Isles fans think that being passive is a good way to play…They think that the Wings are a good example…The thing they don’t seem to realize is that they have grit when they need it and opposing teams have respect for them…The Isles get no respect so they need to go get their respect…..The Isles usually only show grit after being agitated for so long that they respond…
You notice nobody replied to that post? I wonder why?
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hey dunnowhat2type
How about that SOG reasoner got on that 2 on 1 last night?
Haley would’ve flubbed that for sure.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
2 on 0
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 15, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Haley would probably have been in a fight on the other side of the ice, so Nino would have been in on a breakaway that would have been nullfied by the fight going on. He wouldn’t have had an opportunity to flub a scoring opportunity.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 15, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
What a weird argument
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Feb 15, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
agree
I don’t see why this has gone. on so long. Our talented players should be working harder to be tough.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 15, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Some are
I’ve noticed A-mac be much more physical lately, but really he can only do so much when it comes to that.
KO too, but once again, that just ain’t really happening. I can try to be a ballerina all day long, but that doesn’t make me one.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
That would be awesome if you tried tho >;-P
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Feb 17, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reasoner was brought in for having more offensive upside and replacing the role of fourth line center that Konopka had, just without the insane number of PIM. We need players who we can develop like Matt Martin. He’s leading the league in hits, providing a ton of energy. He has a lot less PIM last year and much fewer fights, but a number of times that he’s shied away from the fight has lead to a power play opportunity. After watching Haley play for two months last year and a few games this season, I don’t think he has the potential to develop like that.
What offensive potential has Trevor Gillies ever exhibited?
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 14, 2012 10:39 AM EST reply actions
I don't want Gilies called up, heavyweights are a thing of the past
I was simply loling at the whole secondary scoring angle which is the reason the people here always give for not calling toughness up. Then you guys talk about what the players have done on Bridgeport, all while ignoring how usless they have been since being called up.
And I don’t want to rag on Wallace too bad, at least he he hits people. But don’t give me any scoring BS when talking about how he deserves a spot over Haley.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
The Isles have had a habit of calling up the leading goal scorer on Bridgeport. Last year, it was DiBo and Haley. This year, it was Wallace. These guys get stuck on the 4th line and don’t really hvae much of a real opportunity to score. Consider last year, the 4th line was ZK (no offensive potential) and another winger, typically Martin last year when he was taking more penalties. This year, it’s been Reasoner and Pandolfo or Pandolfo and Nino. The only guy on that line that’s got great offensive potential is Nino. I understand what Cappy’s doing with Nino, but it’s definitely time to elevate him to the third line, either replacing Rolston or replacing Martin if someone like Rakhshani is caled back up. NN-JB-RR would work. Maybe even put him on the second in place of PAP, put PAP with JB. PAP seems to elevate the players around him. For Matt Martin, any scoring he gets is secondary to him providing energy.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 14, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Okay, Call Haley up.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
haha
I’d be more inclined to call up Rhett or DiBo. Not sure where Haley would fit in. The only place I’d suggest is replacing Pandolfo, but I’m actually happy with his play on the PK. That’s where he spends most of his time and he’s putting a lot of work into it. Unless he’s replacing Wallace, but I’ve been liking Wallace and his physical presence.
by dunnowhat2type on Feb 14, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure his fist would have fit real nicely up against a Kings head on saturday
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
hell yeah!
Like I said in previous post…Instead of watching JT cross check guys out of frustration he could leave that to “Haley”…
Tough vs. Physically Intimidating
This Isles team has played SOMEWHAT tough.
- Tavares has taken less of other players’ shit lately and has started to give it back, like against Dustin Brown and the Kings.
- PAP agitates, laughs in opposing players’ faces, ans still is a top setup man this year.
- Nino has had great net presence (tho not consistently) this year, and enjoys pissing off defenders.
- Josh Bailey has gotten a LOT tougher, and he hits people, and not in the shitty Blake Comeau kinda way.
I think what a lot of fans are clamoring for is physical intimidation, in two forms:
1 – they want mean, nasty, overprotection of our star players – i.e. if Tavares gets elbowed by Ted Nolan’s boy the other 4 skaters on the ice should jump the kid and send a message.
2 – they want more players who drop the gloves (and win) and/or are XL-sized hitters to prevent the Nolan-on-Tavares elbow from being attempted in the first place.
My stance on this: I think the Isles play tough but don’t intimidate enough. We need more Matt Martins who can hold their own skill-wise in the bottom 6 and 3rd pairing D.
Is Haley skilled enough, or will calling him up lead to more intimidation at the price of more goals against the 4th line? Yes, I know our current 4th line sucks and would not score any more or less goals with Haley on it instead of Reasoner, Pandolfo, etc…but I think they might let IN a few more. Maybe when Reasoner and his defensive skill comes back, we can bring up Haley and demote Wallace.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Feb 14, 2012 11:54 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
This is not a good thing, IMHO...
Tavares has taken less of other players’ shit lately and has started to give it back,
The reason he has given it back is because hes agitated by the cheap shots that are so freely taken against him…I am a firm believe that if we had toughness he could skate and play the game without getting the cheap shots and agitation…The refs don’t care so the Isles need to take matters in their own hands like last year, IMHO.
- PAP agitates, laughs in opposing players’ faces, ans still is a top setup man this year.
Opposing players laugh when Paps gets in their faces…They know hes all bark & no bite…We need guys like Haley who is quick to bite…Have you ever seen this guy operate? Challenge him to a fight there is no squaring off or barking back & forth…As soon as gloves are dropped there’s no prolonged square off…Haley just goes “Fists of Fury” as soon as the bell is rung…
Yeah, like KO with his "tough him again and I will kill you"
We have all seen the one KO fight. I love the kid, don’t get me wring, but he ain;t no fighter, and he shouldn’t have to be. Same with PAP. Who the hell is he intimidating?
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I should've proofread that
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 14, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I like the passion from KO, Paps, and JT...
BUt if they are agitated it ill throw them off their games…Thats the goal of these agitator players in the 1st place…They go iut there to throw a guy off like JT…If JT is getting into scrums that is a good thing for the opposing team and not us…We want JT to be happy and playing his game…NOt pissed the fuck off
Fact:
Seven of the top ten teams who lead the NHL in fighting majors would be in the playoffs if the season ended today. Of course, most of the fans an this site know better and feel that we’re on the verge of being the 1987 oilers and we’ll just skate rings around the rest of the league and heaven help the opponent who takes cheap shots at JT, because we’ll score a PP goal or two, every time they try. NEWSFLASH, we don’t have all that much speed OR skill and the fact that our coach has decided to unilaterally disarm and hope that the rest of the league will be nice to our stars because of it, is a firing offence IMO. Bring up Haley, Gallant or Gillies or ALL of them! Send the old Devil castaways down or out!
by Howat on Feb 15, 2012 5:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Last year the Isles were in the top five in fighting majors
how come we didn't get to go to the playoffs?
It’s kind of amazing the dichotomy that forms here. Nobody is even really saying not to call up Haley, or that they wouldn’t want some more toughness in the lineup. Just that they don’t expect Haley to fix the greater problems this team has on a whole.
So while acknowledging this is a flawed team in many aspects, somehow that translates to “people think they’re the ’87 Oilers”? Who here is running around saying there’s plenty of speed, skill, scoring, toughness etc?
Let me just give all the “LHH commentors and moderators are passivists and want to see JT dead” crew a little heads up. We’re not the GM, we have no pull with the GM, or the players, scouts or mind control over public opinion. What we say or write here is almost taken like “you keep saying that and watch JT will be hurt and then you’ll be sorry”…like there’s any way we could control that.
I’ll guarantee that as soon as something like that happens, somebody will say “see, I told you, but you wouldn’t listen”…like people listening would’ve led to a Gillies call up.
What’s even funnier is that the guys who argue about needing a defenseman, or a scorer or a goalie etc. are never really coming back and being like “I told you we need scoring, and now look, we lost by a goal, did you listen?” Like the guys who love TEH GRITZ do as soon as a guy gets hit the wrong way.
Absolutely infantile.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Feb 15, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Just that they don’t expect Haley to fix the greater problems this team has on a whole.
Who who wants him called up has ever said “He will fix all our problems?” Who has said that? The only thinging fixing this team is a new owner and some new dmen and maturity.
"LHH commentors and moderators are passivists and want to see JT dead"
You even out that in quotes. ike anybody has even said that either. Why are you making up quotes? That fucking lame a shit.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
?
You even out that in quotes. ike anybody has even said that either. Why are you making up quotes? That fucking lame a shit.
I’m pretty sure I can rely on the readership here to parse out an obvious overstatement…kind of like saying “people who buy Japanese cars hate America” etc. But if it helps any, let’s call those air quotes so you don’t feel like you’re being misquoted.
I mean really, I wouldn’t even call that paraphrasing…more like “a joke” (not air quotes). Maybe I should use ’ ’ instead.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I’ll guarantee that as soon as something like that happens, somebody will say "see, I told you, but you wouldn’t listen
We won’t have to say this, Keith. because most people will be saying we were right. Look at the Kings game. As soon as that game was over, almost everybody wanted Haley up after that. You think if JT gets an elbow to teh head and gets concussed, the isles fans won’t even be more blood thirsty? See Keith, I don’t need JT getting hurt to know I’m right, I already know I’m right.
But go ahead, and make up sarcastic quotes that nobody ever said. That’s awesome.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Absolutely infantile."
What;s infantile is you crying about our opinion all the time and making up quotes. That’s infantile.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not at all
Everytime somebody bring up wanting Haley up a certain few of you get all crazy and make fun of our opinions. I notice you don’t do that when somebody wants de Hann or Ullstrom up. Nothing against those guys, just something I’ve noticed.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
And every time
we offer up a reason why Haley shouldn’t be up, you’re sure we don’t know what were talking about.. so not sure why were in the wrong here.
But to site your examples:
DeHaan is a dman. Were not talking about the 4th line or if we need toughness when it comes to DeHaan. If you wanted DeHaan and we all disagreed, would you claim we don’t say anything when someone says we should recall Poulin?
And if you’re wondering why the people here think the Isles.. a team thin at EVERY position.. would rather have Ullstrom over Haley.. I think our view of what a hockey team needs to succeed are at polar opposites. I could give you links a to a few teams in the KHL which I’m sure you’ll enjoy watching tho.
by TA on Feb 16, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
why is this forum here if we aren't gonna speculate?
thats the beauty of this place as well as the fine writing and analyses
Keith
My only contention is that Wayne Gretzky was a better player with McSorley on his line than if he wasn’t and the reason is obvious. I also believe that the entire Oiler team, including Messier was better with McSorley in the lineup. Imagine if Messier had to always defend his style of play, instead of McSorely doing it for him? I don’t believe he would have continued that style to the same degree. If you don’t have a monster on your team, it’s difficult to smash into another team’s 230 lb defenseman, without thinking of the consequences that may occur as a result. If you expect "team toughness from our first 3 lines, you need to clear their minds of the potential consequences of hitting everyone in sight, making them cough up the puck and creating scoring chances, which is what a team that hits with reckless abandon does. Why do you think Gilles was on Bossy’s line and don’t you think that helped Bossy’s overall game? I do
I think you mean Dave Semenko
McSorely was a defenseman, and though the Oil did try him up on wing from time to time, the Kings moved him right back to the blue line. And Mess always was defending his own style of play, which was plenty rough. (Hell, he had 89 PIM as a 40-year old, and seven other years with more than that.) Edmonton protected Gretz to be sure, but they did it not only with Semenko or McSorely, they did it with guys like Ken Linseman who could also contribute in other ways. They were a deep, stacked team. Even guys like Paul Coffey weren’t angels.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Do you think this Islanders team, as a collective, needs to behave less 'angelic'?
And can they, with who they have right now?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
McSorley may not have played on his line, but he did protect Wayne
Just ask Mike Ramsey.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
mikb
Thanks, you’re right, it was Semenko. I dissagree with you on Messier though. He was dirty as hell, but rarely dropped the gloves, unless you consider breaking the jaw of the guy on the Flames, while his back was turned, fighting. He generally let others do the fighting for his antics. I did hate him though, so, maybe I’m blinded by it.
by Howat on Feb 16, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll totall agree that McSorely or Semenko helped Gretzky
If we can all agree that Haley is not remotely close to the player either of those guys are. See the thing here that BNOY want to continue to tantrum about is that I don’t think physicality helps.
And he also seems to really hate it when “you make things up” which if you look back through the thread, he’s done constantly saying things like people here expected “secondary scoring out of the 4th line”.
The biggest contention that I’m making is that on this team (as its currently constructed), having a defensive liability of an enforcer type can’t be covered up easily by the likes of the players that are on this roster. That is all. So even if a guy like Haley opens up a bit of space and protects JT, you may be running into an issue of the isles getting scored on more.
When you cite teams like the ‘80s oilers and Islanders, you can’t negate the fact that each if those teams had multiple hall of famers on them.
If the isles had those caliber of players, it would be much easier to add a specialized player (enforcer) even if he was a poor player, because you could shelter him easily either with his line mates or with a defenseman.
Only contention I’ve had. Never said I don’t like fighting, hitting, toughness. Never said it doesn’t matter to the players (although some think I have because I’ve noted that adding an enforcer hasn’t borne out to affect winning percentage statistically). I know that players say it all the time, but I’m not sure what anyone would expect them to say when asked about the importance of a teammate. “Nah, we dont need an enforcer, he’s a waste of a roster spot” is something I’ve never heard…probably rarer than “our goalie blew it”.
The thing is, I’d like to get some of the toughness from Okposo and Bailey because I feel like that can be taught and is a mindset, rather that hoping Gillies or Haley will develop offensive and defensive skill sets.
As a question though, do you not think that these guys are playing tougher this year than last year? (I mean comparing Bailey/Ko/JT/MM etc. of last year to this year). I do…I’m not saying its enough, but I think it’s better. And taking far less penalties per game has probably resulted in quite a few more standings points this year.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Feb 16, 2012 12:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
And he also seems to really hate it when "you make things up" which if you look back through the thread, he’s done constantly saying things like people here expected "secondary scoring out of the 4th line".
People in the beginning of the year said we couldn’t dress Haley or Gillies because it would hurt secondary scoring. If you remember in the beginning of the season, they were scratching COZO and putting Gilies in. Of course Gillies wasn’t really taking his spot on his line, just the lineup. So therein lies that point. But you can’t say that we can’t dress haley because he doesn’t score goals, then criticize us for loling about how 2 of our 4th liners haven’t scored one goal all season.
Only contention I’ve had. Never said I don’t like fighting, hitting, toughness. Never said it doesn’t matter to the players (although some think I have because I’ve noted that adding an enforcer hasn’t borne out to affect winning percentage statistically).
You have stated and I’m paraphrasing, that The whole retaliation thing doesn’t help or protect. That enforcers really don’t scare anybody off. Well, unles you’ve never been in a streetfight as a kid or an adult, that is completely ridiculous and goes against what hockey players have said for more years than you and I have lived combined. Of course a big bad buddy will keep his friends safe if he so feels the need. On the hockey rink or real life. If you are a mugger, who will you mug? Thge little old lady or the 6-4 290 pound male?
If the isles had those caliber of players, it would be much easier to add a specialized player (enforcer) even if he was a poor player, because you could shelter him easily either with his line mates or with a defenseman.
Yeah, our 4th liners are so much better than him. Not really.
The tantrum remark? Just more of your condescending attitude whenever you get all butthurt because people want one of their favorte players called up. I think you’d agree with Wang if he walked into the marriot parking lot and started blowing people away with a machine gun. Hey, you walk the company line, the rest of us will form our own opinion.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Just more of your condescending attitude whenever you get all butthurt because people want one of their favorte players called up. I think you’d agree with Wang if he walked into the marriot parking lot and started blowing people away with a machine gun. Hey, you walk the company line, the rest of us will form our own opinion.
And you wonder why it’s called a “tantrum”?
On a daily basis, I tend to not get “butthurt” at all as to what particular roster movement benefits particular LHH poster’s fancy. Or the discussion of it.
What grinds people’s gears about you are a couple of things;
1. A very careful insinuation that those who don’t “get it” are pussies who’ve never been “tough”. (See your analogy above about street fights…which are clearly different from NHL games)
2. This argument generally only comes up after losses despite there being a similar style of play almost nightly.
3. A reccuring persecution theme that somehow your thoughts are being almost censored here, despite you getting probably more trolling latitude than most.
4. The continued supposition without proof that you can prevent injury by having these players in the lineup.
And I’ll say it again, I wouldn’t mind seeing Haley in the lineup. In fact, and I don’t know where you were for this one, but, I wrote exactly that IN NOVEMBER.
And the Wang thing at the end there is exactly the type of leap I took (apparently for good reason) in using the “moderators want JT dead” thing. Beautiful that you proved the point though. Really, you know you have no idea if “no Haley” is Wang’s mandate or not and neither do I. I’m not sure what you think I get a stipend for every positive thing I say, but I can assure you, I don’t. These are pretty original and/or individual thoughts that I have, but they may coincide with others…I mean, I don’t think you KO, ripcurl and some others are just toeing Trevor Gillies line, I just think you have similar views on the subject.
Neil Smith @bigdealneil94 @KeithLHHockey @craigjbutton hey keith GFY
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Feb 16, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My only contention is that Wayne Gretzky was a better player with McSorley on his line than if he wasn’t and the reason is obvious.
The NHL players who played the game? Their opinion means nothing on this.Keith knows. LOL.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 9:15 AM EST reply actions
BobbyNystrom
A little off topic and no offense intended, but I’ve always wondered why Tonneli’s sweater isn’t hanging from the rafters, right next to Nystrom’s? If I had to pick one or the other, I’m not sure who I’d prefer up there. Tonneli was as important a player on the dynasty team as almost anyone else, a far more important player to the Islander organization than Flatley and Kenny Johnsson, combined!
Those kind of thing are things I don't worry about much.
Nystrom was the reason I am an Isles fan, so I guess I would favor his side of course.
How do Islander fans spell hope?
T-A-V-A-R-E-S
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Feb 16, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
