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17 Days To Trade Deadline: What's the Market for P.A. Parenteau?

As opiners and fans we often declare value on players and picks with an authority we do not actually possess. Because despite history and assumed (sometimes falsely) sanity among NHL GMs, the changing variables of any open market also exist in the NHL: Supply, demand, consumer behavior.

Recent "rental" history and NHL GM behavior suggests it would be wiser for New York Islanders GM Garth Snow to hang on to pending free agent P.A. Parenteau, assuming a reasonable contract extension is reachable. 'Tis better to keep a good player than to assume you can replace him through free agency (when salary and term demand goes up) or promotion, where prospects develop at a pace well behind their hype.

Parenteau has told Montreal French-language media he would like to remain an Islander, and term is more important than money/salary. He also said he's not in a rush, as this is the first time in his career he's had leverage. He indeed has leverage, and desires security the Isles have mostly given to younger players. But smart money is on both player and team coming to an agreement before the Feb. 27 trade deadline.

What could defy that smart money? A suddenly desperate market.

Star-divide

I don't think we're at the desperate market stage yet -- no meaningful trades have been made this month -- but increasingly NHL media report frustrated would-be buyers cannot find willing sellers, or at least cannot find sellers willing to accept a reasonable rental price.

TSN's Darren Dreger, among the most inside of insiders:

The Islanders, Tampa Bay Lightning and pretty much all of the teams we can assume to be sellers...aren't selling...at least not yet and this is contributing to the frustration some of the NHL's labelled buyers are feeling.

Contending teams are trying to make trades, but no one is biting.

In most years you'll hear "every team needs a defenseman," and that's no less true in 2012. But there has been more buzz about "top six" forward needs this year, as evidenced by the apparent sudden demand for Tuomo Ruutu -- who is a nice piece but hardly a game-changing piece:

The Star-Tribune's Michael Russo:

In other news, I just got off the phone with Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford. I believe the Wild has strong interest in Tuomo Ruutu, but the price according to Rutherford is "real high" based on the amount of teams interested in him. Rutherford will talk to Ruutu's agent to see what it'll take to re-sign the free-agent-to-be.

Which brings us to P.A. Parenteau. Parenteau should be a hot commodity if the desire for top six forwards is real. A right-handed shot who can help any powerplay, Parenteau also has shown himself to be effective on multiple lines -- even when away from John Tavares -- as he's piled up 37 assists (fifth-most in the NHL) to go with 11 goals.

The superficial observer would call Parenteau's production Tavares-dependent, but any team sincerely scouting the Islanders and their pending unrestricted free agents would discover Parenteau is a good possession driver and, as a bonus, carries the feistiness and competitive fire that many desire for intense playoff hockey.

Because Parenteau is a flexible top-six forward who could also boost offense or possession on a third line -- his coach Jack Capuano repeatedly praises his flexibility -- he could be a target for any team needing a boost there. He's shown he can play with and help an offensive dynamo like John Tavares, and he's shown he can add production to lower lines, too.

Among the teams said to be in the market for forwards are the Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota Wild, St. Louis Blues, Vancouver Canucks, and perhaps the Calgary Flames, Colorado Avalanche or Boston Bruins if injury concerns persist up front for the latter three.

(That's just a partial list; there is a lot of theorizing going out there to mix with actual reporting.)

What would it take for Snow to choose cashing in Parenteau rather than a contract extension? Aside from unreasonable salary/term demands from Parenteau, it should take an offer that blows Snow away. The Islanders have been in pick and prospect collection mode since trading down from #5 in the 2008 draft. Their farm system is now quite well regarded. As a low-spending team, the need to keep the cupboard full never goes away, but it's also the very same reason that Parenteau is probably worth more as a retained asset than as fodder for another scratch-off draft pick or might-be prospect.

We tend to assume every pending UFA is a rental-in-waiting, but really that shouldn't be so: You should only dump the UFAs who no longer fit, who want too much money, or who are easily replaced. Parenteau shouldn't fit any of those categories.

Dreger put this market dynamic like so:

Number one: Although, statistically not a lot may change between now and end the season, it is possible, and the benefits of a late season push both financially and developmentally has an impact on team growth. Number two: the hungrier the buyers get, the more willing they will be to pay a higher premium when the true list of available players surfaces in the coming days.

The only way that happens is if buyers get desperate. Supposedly there are a lot of them right now. Supposedly there are few sellers. Both are subject to change -- fewer buyers, more sellers -- in the next two weeks as the playoff races become clearer and more teams drop their hopes.

At some point you'd need both the Isles and Parenteau to be at an impasse and another GM to view it worthwhile to make it worth Snow's while.

It happens. It only takes one. There are Don Waddells out there who, through external pressures and internal patience, make short-sighted moves in a moment of weakness for the promise of a payoff that never comes. That's how Atlanta spent three draft picks and a checking forward for 22 games (including playoffs) of Keith Tkachuk. (The one first-round pick would've been two first-rounders had Tkachuk re-signed.) That same year is also how Alexei Zhitnik only fetched Freddy Meyer and a 3rd (Mark Katic) from Phialdelphia in December, but two months later with the deadline looming Waddell coughed up former 8th overall Braydon Coburn.

Is there a GM in Waddell's state of mind right now? Not likely. That's why Parenteau, still 28, probably stays.

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Agreed, hold him unless there is an insane offer

Also, is it PAH-ren-tow or Pah-REN-tow? Howie Rose and Chris King differ on pronunciation, and it seems PA uses the latter version himself.

by GreekIsles83 on Feb 10, 2012 4:33 PM EST reply actions  

PA-RENT-Able?

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on Feb 10, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The “standard” French pronunciation is Pa-ren-TEAU, but the accent is weak.

They may well pronounce it differently in Quebec, though. But I’d be very surprised if they stressed the first syllable.

by Kaonashi on Feb 11, 2012 10:19 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

It's pronounced Parenthough

In Butchville.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Feb 11, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

FWIW

PAP does the video announcement for the birthday announcements on the scoreboard and he says Pah-REN-toe.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 12, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

He also

wears a pink shirt.
Your argument is invalid.

by Bleuchz on Feb 12, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Its up to PA...Should I stay or should I go...

Going into the season I thought that by seasons end Garth would have to make a choice between PA and Blake Comeau going into next season. I didn’t think it was in the team’s best interest to keep both. Well, I guess Garth made that decision a lot sooner then I thought he would. And its obvious he made the right one.

Now its up to PA. It appears Garth wants to keep PA but, at what cost. If term is the issue, it could get stickey. I would have liked Frans and PA to have signed two year deals. But, I guess that’’s not realistic. Garth is in a spot because its unlikely that he would be able to replace PA with another UFA this summer at the same price. And if traded at the deadline, would what Garth rec’d be enough? The rebuild is past trading for draft picks, unless your talking about trading some one like Staois.

Five years for PA seems like way too many. I was not happy with Grabner and Okposo getting five years. Would PA take three years after Nielsen got four? It looks like four would be the right term. Should Garth do it? He probable has to. Will PA hold out for that one more year? I doubt it.

by John from ATL on Feb 10, 2012 4:45 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd for the Clash reference.

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 10, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

PAP's best year (this season) is the year he is playing for the most important payoff of his career

I’d like to think PAP keeps up his level of intensity (or close to it) for the next few seasons, but signing him to a five-year deal could mean that we won’t see this level of intensity again until ‘16-’17, assuming he is capable of playing with that same intensity 5 years from now.

I’d like to see a 2 or 3 year deal, so I think I’ll be disappointed.

But if it is 5 years @ $3 million per, I could live with that.

"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 10, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I like PAP........

and hope a 4 year 10m deal is ball park. How ever if an under 28 year old top pair D with good size, good numbers, and a good health record is available from a team that needs a PAP type forward more than the D I just described than I would do a deal, even if it cost us another player or prospect or a Pick. We really have to wait a while for the bigger Ds in the pipeline to come up, and have more possibilities at forward. Those who say we would be taking a chance doing that are right, – just as those who are aliitle concerned with Grabner also have a point. This is how GMs earn their salaries and get their teams into post season play.

by altosax on Feb 10, 2012 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

Oh if that deal comes up, you take it.

I just don’t see someone giving up a defender like that. I can’t think of any “extra” guys like that, for sure.

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 10, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Ballpark? Then you are out in left field...

4yrs $12 mill is more like ballpark. He is presently a top 25 scorer in the NHL. If you were to take the average salary of the top 50 forwards in the NHL, it would not surprise me if it is alot more than $3 mil per. The Isles signed Comeau for $2.4 mill this year. He’s better than that. Leino gets 4 yrs for $16 mill. He couldn’t even carry PAs sticks into an arena at this point. I don’t even think that Garth or Charles are this deluded about PAs value. And if you listen to everything that is being said, he is clearly offering a home town discount. If the Isles should turn it down (or trade him) expect his agent to offer up Leino’s contract as a starting point.for any interested suitors. If I am not mistaken, at this point, PA is the highest scoring forward in his walk year. (Parise is likely to get much more, but keep an eye on Grabovski in Toronto, while a slightly more dynamic scorer, PA is more the playmaker.)

by triogrande on Feb 10, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

if an under 28 year old top pair D with good size, good numbers, and a good health record is available from a team that needs a PAP type forward more than the D

That just isn’t going to happen, unless it’s rental for rental, in which case … treading water.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Feb 11, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Keep PAP

4 years, 11-12 mil. back end loaded like all the rest should be fair to every one. He wants to stay and wants security. A top six forward in the prime of his career would be a value @<3 million a year.

Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"

by since70too on Feb 10, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Been wondering about that

There are a lot of fun variables that could come into play, including a theoretical rollback.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Feb 11, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

It gives us an opportunity to front load a willing UFA

While hopefully working toward increased revenue streams 3-5 years out.

Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"

by since70too on Feb 11, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush (Probably a whole lot more)

Anyone who thinks he will get less than $3 mil per is nuts. Moulson got 3 yrs 9 mil. That would be a fair starting point. If he is looking for term, you go to 4 yrs 12 mil and probably get it done. Maybe have to bump it to $13-14 mil. Statsny gets $6.6 mil per year (FOR WHAT, STUD RIGHTS TO HIS FATHER AND UNCLES?!?),a 36 year old Vinny Prospal just got a $2.5 mil contract and a very average Ville Leino got 4yrs $16 mil for one decent season, 4yrs at $12 mil would be a very prudent contract. Like it or not, there is at least one team (and probably a whole lot more) willing to pay him like Leino. As for return value, it would all be hypothetical. Unless you have a playoff team that is sitting on a lottery teams draft pick, I can’t see a trade being anything other than a gamble on a handful of prospects and draft picks. We finally have a couple of decent ones land in our laps. Don;t let this one get away either, especially when he doesn’t want to go!!!

by triogrande on Feb 10, 2012 6:22 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Dont short change the guy

He is a legit 60+ pt winger and could cash in @ 4M per in other circumstances. I say give him a 4 year deal worth 13M.

When I go out on the ice I am at peace. This is my best element. No one can talk to me. No one can bother me. I just go play. That is why I love it so much - Chris Osgood

by backstop87 on Feb 10, 2012 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

If nothing else, keep PA...

for 3-4 more years, just to remind the Rangers of how short sighted they are. The only way I think of moving him is if names like Suter, Yandle, or Subban get thrown around. And that’s not happening. Keep him!

"Hating the Rangers since before I was born."

by Carl Rackie on Feb 10, 2012 7:05 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I always wondered if the Okposo-Parenteau switch

was preparing the top line for life without PA

the fact that he’s still producing enhances his value to/for us.

I would miss him, but if the right deal was offerred…

"..."

by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Feb 10, 2012 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

I would only trade him for a top 2 shut down dman...

I’m talking shut down with size…If we cant get that then it would be ridiculous to let this guy, a top 4 forward, who fell into Garths lap, walk away…

by KO21 on Feb 10, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Off Topic, but I find this funny

The Joey MacDonald twitter from last night was actually a fake. I’m amused someone took the time to make a fake account of him. I think Modano and a few others re-tweeted him.

"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Feb 10, 2012 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

I am surprised they did something about it so quickly!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Feb 10, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea

My fake Cam Ward lasted for a while, I think my downfall was tweeting at DP.

"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Feb 10, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Do I hear $15 M.

We started at $10M, now e are up to $14M. His agent LOVES us. Do I hear Leino money anyone? He would get it in July.

Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"

by since70too on Feb 11, 2012 7:43 AM EST up reply actions  

If Parenteau wants to be an Islander then Garth better get him resigned...

I wonder how long a term Paps is expecting…I would say 3 yrs but if you need to give him 4 or 5 I think I would do it…

by KO21 on Feb 10, 2012 9:33 PM EST reply actions  

I'd think he's shooting for minimum 4, but maybe 5 as a starting point

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Feb 11, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I say 4/$14 Mil should do it

He’s definitely a player we need for the future to work the second line with, maybe with Ryan Strome in a year or two. Now if some joker wants to give up a couple of #1s and a good prospect or two that’ll be ready next year, you’d have to consider it, but I don’t see any reason why PA can’t be re-signed for 4 years. He’s young enough that he should still be productive in year 4.

I’d front-load the contract so even with a cap hit of let’s say 4.5M, his last year’s pay would be less, making him more-easily tradable should his play level drop a bit. Plus, with the other long-term deals back-loaded, there should actually be cash to pay him.

Then for next year, sign one FA.

by martylnd on Feb 10, 2012 10:15 PM EST reply actions  

What's the market for PAP?

I see and completely understand why people are screaming to sign PAP rather than trade him. I’m with you on that. But i’m fairly sure that Dom’s question was what PA’s trade value is.

I’ll take this as just a mental exercise, put away the contract offer sheet, and try to come up with trades that would make sense to Garth. The assumption is that either contract talks are at an impasse, or that a dynamite off comes along. Here goes…

If they simply can’t get a contract done and don’t think they will get one done: In this case, there’s a bit less leverage. The Isles would likely fetch a young, big defenceman who hasn’t made his mark on the league yet. Think Wishart, but with more desire to use the body to vanquish the enemy. Obviously, if someone’s looking for a forward, then they likely don’t have one to give up in return.

If a Tallon comes a-knockin’: in this case, Garth would have more leverage. If they’re talking picks, then it’d have to be an early first rounder plus another one further down the line, or a late first plus two more. The reasoning here is that PAP is sure playing like someone who was chosen in the first round, and he’s playing that way now, not years from now, when the newly-acquired first rounder finally makes an impact. Therefore, there would have to me more coming this way to make up for the lost time.

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 10, 2012 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

Nice, we have a volunteer!

I meant to mention the Tallon wild card. I still think teams will hold on to their 1st, but who knows. Your argument is reasonable.

Agree they’d probably look for a decent (close to ready) D prospect and a pick. Don’t know enough about other teams’ farm systems to guess specific players.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Feb 11, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll drop a name, and a cool name at that.

Corbinian Holzer. I admit I don’t know squat about this guy except that he is 6’-3" and 205# and that he has been over-ripened in the Toronto farm system. Apparently they have enough depth on D that they have NHL ready D-men chomping at the bit in the A, must be nice. Anyway, I read somewhere that this dude might be available for a top 4 forward and I thought it might be worth a mention here. He certainly fits the profile of what we would want in return for the PAP. Does anyone here have any knowledge of this guy?

For the record, I am in agreement with just about everyone here the PAP should be re-signed, and the sooner the better.

by CloseCallJiggs on Feb 11, 2012 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

No worries.

He’s playing like a Top 4 anyway.

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 11, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither do I.

I only know about our own farm system thanks to Mark.

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 11, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

realistically

I don’t think his trade value is that high – not that he isn’t turning our to be quite valuable

would sign him 4 for 14

but can we please put him with Martin-Bailey

the lack of creative thinking on lines & D combos is a bit frightening

by Cary K on Feb 10, 2012 11:07 PM EST reply actions  

He has more value to us than what we could get for him

Unless, like the article states, a GM makes an unreasonably favorable offer. Chances of that happening are slim, so I see a deal in the 3-4 yr range happening. I would also expect them to pay in the range of Nielsen money maybe a .5 mil/yr more.

If push comes to shove I think a reasonable contract will get done. Talented playmakers like Parenteau are not all that common and he fits this organization well. Keep him he’s a valuable piece to this team and all-around useful player in his prime.

by jgimps on Feb 10, 2012 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

Anyone watching the college hockey game?

Mayfield just went to the locker room after a knee on knee hit…

UVa Student. Twitter: @ericdavidmorris

by edavidmorris on Feb 10, 2012 11:36 PM EST reply actions  

This thread should be permanently deleted and the subject never spoken of again. PAP is too valuable to this team. He creates offense on a team that is starving for it. Why trade away something you need when you know it works. He silenced all the doubters when he was switched to another line and still produced. A trade is just plain wrong. Lets be realistic, we’re not gonna get enough in return anyway.

by Icefan71 on Feb 11, 2012 7:12 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

BTW

Pierre-Alexander Parenteau.
Sorry….I had forgotten what it was.

by WRANGLERICK on Feb 11, 2012 10:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Maybe late, but O.K. let's play

What would it take for me to trade PAP. A young defensive prospect with size and top four potential who is getting close, and a late 1st/ early 2nd round draft pick. Any team hungry enough to part with thase kind of assets must believe that Parenteau’s offensive boost may be enough to bring home ol’ Stanley. Anyone out there in that position with those kind of assets? Well maybe Chicago. Dylen Olsen, would they trade him? would he and their 1st pick be enough for us to part with PAP? Or maybe Pittsburgh. Simon Despres? Same questions.

Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"

by since70too on Feb 11, 2012 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

Toronto has some assets and is seeking help like PAP could provide

Corbinian Holzer is a guy being mentioned. I don’t know anything about him except he seems to fit the profile you describe above.

by CloseCallJiggs on Feb 11, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Well if Burke wants to dance

I start by asking about Keith Aulie. I don’t think Holzer is a strong top 4 candidate. I’m not moving Pap for a bottom pair guy that far down Toronto’s depth chart. Not sure a rental puts Toronto over the top (of whatever hill they think they are climbing) anyway. So not sure a big dead line move is in the works for them.

Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"

by since70too on Feb 11, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm guessing that Chicago's farm system is reasonably deep.

I say this because many columnists have said that the Isles are following in the Hawks footsteps. And since our farm is now pretty well stocked, i’m guessing theirs is too.

So that being said, what about two prospects and no picks, instead of one of each? If you could get both a ripe D man, AND a ripe winger, would you pull the trigger?

Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 11, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

PA should be signed as a priority, unless his price is unreasonable, which I doubt it is.

by zack779 on Feb 11, 2012 8:39 PM EST reply actions   1 recs


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