GM Would Ya: Marek Zidlicky?
For the New York Islanders to step forward, they require both: (A) the patience they've exhibited with their younger assets and (B) the daring to seize opportunities to add established pros without violating (A). We've seen this with James Wisniewski and Brian Rolston (hmmm ... maybe this whole conversation ends now), as well as on lower yet more rewarding levels with Matt Moulson and P.A. Parenteau.
Could Marek Zidlicky fit the bill?
As noted (and discussed some in comments) in the Wednesday a.m. thread, Zidlicky has himself in a fix in Minnesota: First by being so surplus to needs that he was scratched three games in a row, then by airing his grievances to the press outside of Festivus season.
It's possible, though hardly likely, that the Wild could ask him to waive his no-trade clause and dump the final year of his contract. If that happens, should the Islanders inquire? There are a lot of factors in this thought exercise, so we'll take them one at a time.
Note: This is not a trade rumor, this is an exercise.
With the trade deadline approaching this is a good time to state our site's philosophy with regard to silly season: We don't troll in rumors. Feel free to discuss ones you see/hear in comments (with citation, please, so people can evaluate based on the dubious source), but we don't troll for traffic like some clikonbritneymobwivesviagrabuygold.com by pumping every rumor that comes across some poor sap's impotent synapse.
If you see a rumor published up front here, it's either purely for "Would you?" discussion purposes or because it came from such a respected source that it must be addressed. That is all.
To Zidlicky, or Not To Zidlicky
Okay, back to the question at hand:
Is Zidlicky available?
We don't know. If he is, that means Minnesota really soured on him quickly, which means he might be had at distressed market price. That's good. Of course when a team sours that quickly, that's also a red flag, like he lost his coach and team and is possibly in denial about his declining play. Buyer beware.
Ultimately Zidlicky's a decent defenseman and the Wild have playoff aspirations -- and his NTC reportedly lasts through the draft -- so the Wild should be patient and garner a non-hurried asset swap over the summer. Reportedly his talk with his coach after this drama "went well" ... in the coach's opinion.
Zidlicky is an offensive defenseman. Do the Islanders need that?
Yes. Well, no. Alright, maybe. They need better puck movers. They don't necessarily need ones that are question marks in their own zone. Their powerplay is actually doing fine without another true quarterback opposite Streit (and without, incidentally, Rolston). But overall, given the Islanders' thin depth at this position, it's hard to imagine Zidlicky wouldn't be an instant upgrade.
But his scoring has fallen off a cliff.
Well, true, but obviously there is a disconnect this year with new coach Mike Yeo. He's historically been close to a 40-point powerplay guy on some low-scoring teams. Just competently advancing the puck up ice might be progress for the Isles blueline. And Zidlicky thinks Yeo is misusing him this year:
"I played like 17, 18 minutes ice time, I play just third, fourth line, I stood on the blue line, I didn’t do anything what I did years before. He said everything I do with the puck and without the puck, it’s wrong. So I have a little different opinion."
Zidlicky said that since he doesn’t get out with top guys, he spends most his shifts in the defensive zone and "if you spend most time in our zone, you can’t do anything."
Some Wild fans are understandably unimpressed.
Via stats procured from the venerable and terrifying Gabe Desjardins: Zidlicky's O-zone starts are still highest on that team's blueline -- and in fact much higher than how he was used last year, when his O-zone start pct. was just 46%.
It's possible he has a point about his teammates: He might be lining up with lower-caliber guys. By Corsi he's fine, but again: Higher O-zone starts help that. Last year with lower O-zones, his Corsi was a good bit weaker, and in the negative.
Meanwhile, this season he's still logged 3:19 of PP time per game, tops among Wild D-men (second place: Islanders draft pick Jared Spurgeon) on a powerplay that's solidly in the lower third (15.2%) in the NHL.
He's also minus-10, lowest among Wild defensemen.
Yes, he is. Of course Mark Streit is minus-20, so...
...And Zidlicky's 34.
Yes, as is Streit. Which creates an interesting proposition, actually: Two 34-year-old offensive defensemen, in decline of unknown severity, entering the final year of their respective contracts in 2012-13 at roughly $4 million salaries (Streit's is actually $4.1 million).
That's a lot of money tied up in similar defensemen that might not provide what you want. But it's also low risk in remaining term and I mean if you can burn $5 million for the fumes of Rolston this year ... even with some raises for Frans Nielsen (hopefully) and John Tavares and P.A. Parenteau (hopefully) it wouldn't be a bank-breaking one-year trial.
But how much would the Wild want?
Well again, that's the point on which this exercise pivots. Even in the case of the Islanders' weak defense with four older veterans on expiring contracts, when all is equal you probably don't go after Zidlicky in a value-for-value trade. That risks finding you already had whatever Zidlicky will offer at age 35 in Matt Donovan or Dylan Reese or Calvin de Haan, etc. (Not trying to pump those prospects/AHLers by any means; just saying the risk is that Zidlickly's game has declined and his coach knows it but Zidlicky himself does not.)
But if you can take a Wisniewski-like flier -- if the Wild just want to be rid of him but few teams want to fit his $4 million cap hit this year and next -- well it's at least worth a call. It's surely an upgrade on what you have now, and might even be an upgrade on what you have next season.
Zidlicky still has his NTC and presumed choice of not moving, and the Wild likely still prefer to keep him. Regardless, for a team in the Islanders' position where external upgrades are hard to come by, this one is worth a call.
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even though i dont know much about him,
i know all i need to know – 5’ 11 190 pounds, 35 years old in 2 days. BFP (big f*cking PASS)
c.mon, really? whats a guy like this going to do for the islanders? they have more old fossils already that shouldnt be playing
To be honest, hes still better than what we've got
Id def trade like a 4th or maybe a 3rd for him. Wouldn’t you much rather have Zidlicky and Reese as our third pairing on D than Eaton and Staois? We would be able o get rid of mottau and give the young kids the rest of the year to develop in Bridgeport since we would keep Eaton and Staios as reserves in case Reese struggles or someone gets hurt. If he does struggle, plug in Eaton and send him down. That way we would still have Staios as the 7th Dman. An experienced puck mover and extra PP help can only help for a playoff push.
I'd prefer Donovan over all of them
No Sleep 'til....We Find Some Secondary Scoring
What impact would adding Zidlicky have in attracting future free agents?
We keep saying no one wants to come to the Island because they aren’t any good, but we don’t want to get players that are better than we already have, we only want great players with upside to be signed. Guess what? So does everyone else and we aren’t on the top of the list. I haven’t watched him play enough to even know if he is an improvement, but even the thought that he could be another Streit would make it worth the risk. His age and shoulder injury should be the concern, not whether he is worth the money.
I think reality has to set in. Make a couple of moves to get you incrementally better if it means you don’t have to mortgage the future. If Zidlicky costs a 4th rounder for one season of improved defense, you have to at least consider it. Move the line from being a bottom 5 team to a middle 15. Maybe pave the way for a better UFA signing the following summer and a littel bit more margin for error when the kids come up. We can wait for the perfect player and fit to fall into our laps at the perfect price and wind up instead with left over failures from fat camp that we put in a uniform for 40 games just to make the cap floor.
Maybe my problem is that I don’t see the $4 million in savings is going to somehow get us the equivalent player on the open market or even paying $6 million will convince another $4 million player to come to the Island . To me it makes even less sense for the Islanders with a limited budget to try to outbid anyone.
by Hockey1919 on Feb 2, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there are a lot of factors to consider.
One thing I don’t like is that it virtually eliminates the chance for the Isles to pick up a BIG, solid defenseman in the offseason (whether it be through free agency or trade), unless Streit or Zidlicky (or AMac) is included in a trade for one. It means that Hamonic is the best BIG defenseman Isles have next season and Jurcina (if he signs for a reasonable price) could be the 2nd. After that, the only extra grit will come from Bridgeport, and I don’t see much grit down there, as far as defensemen go. At best, Isles might find a guy like Staios again, and maybe that guy can function well with low-minutes. Maybe.
Worst case scenario (assuming good health for Hamonic), Jurcina misses many games due to various injuries (or signs elsewhere) and Isles have one big defenseman and the rest small-to-average.
I like the risk of taking more money to UFAs better than the risk above.
The other concern is that Zidlicky may not be more valuable to Isles than Reese next season. (I’m not even sure that two Streits right now would be better for Isles’ lineup than one Streit and one Reese. It only takes one Streit [and one John Tavares] to run a top-10 power play, evidently. At even strength I think Reese is better than Streit defensively and his outlet passes aren’t quite as good as Streit’s, but they are at least average— good enough to get the puck moving into the other team’s zone.)
If things fall through with free agency, Isles can trade some of the future for a good, physical defenseman. But that would cost two or three nice pieces. (At least one of which would have to have a higher ceiling than the incoming defenseman, most likely.)
If things fall through with Zidlicky, Isles would likely be stuck with him. (I don’t think there’s much of a chance of him being an Eaton-level defenseman, but you never know.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
The more I think about it...
I would rather see Isles spend $1.5 mil on Reese as the 3rd small defenseman and have $6 mil to go after a free agent defenseman than spend $4 mil on Zidlicky and $3.5 mil on a free agent. (This is just a “for instance”.)
In other words, I think money is best spent elsewhere (overpaying for Boychuk, for instance) when it is very possible Reese could be the more effective of the two for Isles next season.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 1, 2012 9:09 PM EST reply actions
I could buy that
My hang-up is the Isles enter every summer with that theoretical $5-6 million in hand to wow somebody and usually fall short (usually because it takes both big cash and big term to sway them). So rather than end up with another late-summer Rolston, this might be a good backup plan.
That said, we have no idea if a new CBA will be reached and if the floor will be lower and the raises and extensions will make that possibility moot.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I think a guy like Boychuk may like a 2-year deal at $5 or $6 million per.
Especially if someone can help convince him that Isles are turning the corner. He would be able to bridge the gap for Mayfield or Pedan, or defenseman Isles likely take with 1st rounder this draft. And who cares if it is a gross overpayment? (Maybe Wang.) If Boychuk were to play like he does with Bruins, he would be worth $6 million to Isles, because they would be looking at the playoffs.
That’s my sales pitch. How’d I do?
Note: I also think Isles should re-sign Jurcina, if they can, as insurance. Otherwise it could be Hamonic and a dozen small-to-average-sized defensemen for Isles next season.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
if boychuck hit's the market..
and if boychuck considers a team like the isles, ie rebuilding, near the cap floor, etc… then i’d pressume that team would have to offer a longer team deal, with good money. I’d offer him $5 mill over 5, or atleast close to. i value boychuck more than i valued erhoff last year.
It's a good pitch
My fear now — and this is different from where I was two summers ago — is that by summer the market just becomes too thin again. This summer should be better than the last few, but it could still be really weak with lots of re-signings.
I also have the general concerns of how Boychuk would play when elevated to The Guy and stuff like that, but those are the risks you take and that’s where you hope your pro scouts know what they were doing.
I used to think the Isles cap space was much more of an asset than it’s turned out to be. Part of that is definitely on the Isles, but part of it is the teams that are cap-stressed have found ways not to get taken. Also: Freaking Bob Gainey.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
A Bag of Pucks
That’s what I’d give up for Zidlicky. Or, more seriously, a late round pick. Certainly nothing above a third-rounder.
But I hear you on this. I really don’t want to see this summer’s free agency period become Episode III: Revenge of the Stiffs. I think Garth’s got to make a trade to get a guy. No more “taking their chance” at a free agent or getting rejected by the second-tier guys who think they turned into Larry Robinson overnight just because their contracts ran out. I just think he can do better than Zidlicky. Garth probably does, too.
I do like that Zidlicky has the extra year on there. That way, if the Islanders did get him (again, for, like, nothing), he’s gone by opening day 2013, when hopefully one the prospects can take his place.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 2, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
I think it’s one thing if a player has a history of complaining, another when it might just be a disagreement between coach and player. I think this is one of the latter.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
This
As a Wild fan, Zidlicky has been a good soldier for them for three years, with no complaints at all. But as he is used to being a top 4 defensemen being scratched 3 games in a row got to him. But really what was he expecting Yeo to do. The team had been on an awful run, scratched him and won back to back games. He had no shot of getting back in the lineup. Whats funny is he probably would be playing tonight if he didn’t open his yapper after the Wild blew that third period lead Tuesday.
Thanks for weighing in
That’s really the big, unknown risks with players as they age: You don’t know how fast they’ll decline, and you also don’t know how they’ll handle that realization (if they recognize it at all).
Aging is a bitch.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Given a real role, I honestly think he'd be fine
Some of these guys (e.g. Guerin) just need to be where they’re loved or have purpose.
My biggest question is what he still has left to give, which I’d expect the pro scouts to have a read on.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
If you look at the Eaton/Mottau/Staios contract and even Jurcina’s extension, along with last seasons dumping of Hillen and Gervais, I believe Snow’s plan is for the youngsters to take over on D next year. Reese/Wishart/Katic/Ness/Donovan/De Haan are quite the group, and at least 2-3 of them should be able to make it at the NHL level. If all we want is to bring in someone that’s better then Mottau, we already have that in Reese. If he had a year less on his contract, then maybe. But not with another year.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Did the reporter ask if he wanted cheese with that whine?
. It’s not easy for me. It’s good for team probably because the guys played pretty well the last two games
This guy ran to the media like a bitch when faced with some adversity. This guy obviously isnt a good fit for this young developing team. The Isles don’t need low character guys that will ruin a teams camaraderie….
Well, there's also
So, we will see. I just wanted to say something about this situation because a lot of guys are writing something different about me and I just wanted to tell you my opinion."
and
only what I’m thinking right now because I still love hockey. That’s my whole life. Every player likes hockey and nobody likes to be healthy scratch three games, four games.Sometimes there’s more to the story.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The bottum line is he is thinking about himself and only himself. There is a way to address the media without opening a can of worms and causing lighting a fire.
Sometimes there’s more to the story.
This is probably true but you know that guys shouldn’t air out their dirty laundry to the media. Comeau was scratched and was docked playing time did you see him bitch to the pubic? When KO was a healthy scratch for 3 games for being ineffective did he gripe to the media? We don’t need guys like Zidlicky to teach these kids to act like selfish sports stars. It seems like the Isles are a tight bunch of players…This type of behavior isn’t good to teach a young impressionable team…IMHO
I agree with your premise
I’m just not certain what we think we know about it from this episode is the entire script. I mean, it may be, but sometimes these things don’t mean as much as we think — I’m usually quick to chastise players who pull this — and the team that takes on the distressed asset ends up happy. (Also, sometimes the player realizes his mistake and the jolt of a change of scenery sets him straight.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I can appreciate where you're coming from.
People are human and make mistakes…
I certainly wouldn't give up a top 40 pick
a top 9 pick should yield one of the top 5 D in this draft, Murray and Dumba will likely be first 2 D, after the two Russian forwards and maybe forsberg, Morgan Reilly or Griffin Reinhart should be around 8th or 9th…
but the 15 to 22 picks will yield a D man from the second tier of the rich D crop in this draft…I think the Isle may try to get a second pick in this range, particularly if Pap or Frans don’t resign and are traded. That second rounder might be needed to trade up.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Feb 1, 2012 10:27 PM EST reply actions
Small 35 Year Old Defenseman With a Big Contract and Offense That is Not Elite?
Why bother? If the Islanders had been in on Brian Campbell, Keith Yandle or Dan Boyle, I could see that. And add Byfuglien, too. But this, I really wouldn’t bother with.
New Plan: How about we only sign faster, better and cheaper players.
If the Islanders had been in on Brian Campbell, Keith Yandle or Dan Boyle
But that is the big IF, they aren’t and won’t be until they are better or draft the player themselves. We can hope another Martin comes along, but not likely. I think many of the Defenseman in the systme will be an improvement next season, but you can’t go into a season with half of your defenseman being rookies. As bad, and I mean terribly bad, as Staois, Mottau and Eaton have looked at times, I still think we sell them short because they are veterans.
Shouldn't this be...
I wouldn’t Avery Zidlicky with Roseann Barr’s Phaneuf!
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Feb 2, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
No harm in kicking the tires and inquring
Seems to be more of an offensive D man, but do we need him on the PP? No. Do we need more production from the point? I’d argue not; we need more secondary scoring from the Fs. But overall, he would be an upgrade over Staois, Mottau, Eaton, etc. If MInny wil take a 4th or below, then go for it—but I’d rather we seize the opportunity to go after a top 9 forward than another D man.
I bet all this will be moot, as some legit-playoff team will pony up a 2nd or 3rd, or some prospect, to get him for their stretch run and no doubt Zidlicky will waive his NTC for them rather than us.
A bit from the land of disenchanted Czech defensemen
AKA the Twin Cities. The tide of the fans and the media has decidedly become anti-Zidlicky in the past couple of weeks since he sulked his way through his first healthy scratch. It’s also no secret Mike Yeo doesn’t like Zidlicky and his preferred top six is Scandella/Spurgeon, Falk/Prosser and Stoner/Zanon. Becuase of Zidlicky’s continued presence on the roster, Prosser and Scandella have been on the Dylan Reese Memorial Shuttle between the AHL and NHL since they’re the only two of the Wild’s defense group who don’t have to pass through waivers. Yeo has made no bones about the fact he would prefer one of the veteran defensemen (Specifically Zidlicky or Mike Lundin) moved so he can have the defense corp he wants.
If he waives his no trade (Which with everyone and their mother turning on him he might just do), honestly he’s probably a better option on the blue line than Eaton, Reese or Staios. Also at this point he’ll probably be fairly cheap to pick up. Honestly, I’d take a flier on him.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
Do you think he really has declined?
Or do he and Yeo go together like Gordon and Bergenheim, Capuano and Comeau?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
A bit of both actually
There is no doubt he and Yeo have a oil and water relationship, but I think there is more to it. His decline in production coincides with his major shoulder injury that came a year ago. Part of it was he rushed back from surgery to try and help the Wild’s eventually unsuccessful playoff push last year. He probably won’t admit it, but I think the stats (3 goals, 15 points total in the last calendar year) speak to it playing a role in the decline.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Feb 2, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Just not sure about 4 million for PP Specialist
Still a liability in the D-zone, and has historically been a minus player. Doubt he would waive his NTC to come here. I’d rather spend an extra 1.2 million per and make a run at Jeff Carter. Yes, he has an “attitude” and at 5.2 million he shouldn’t, but the Flyers broke his poor heart, and it will cost more to give up to get him , but could potentially solidify the 2nd line center position. and with the extra cap hit, we could get rid of 1 or 2 LTIR cap hits. Unfortunately, with the new CBA, everything could turn inot a crap shoot.
"This season is a serious misallocation of valuable hockey resources"- Saving Private Tavares
If the Isles take on another 10 year contract for a guy like Carter
then it is time to FireGarthSnow, and as for Wang, if he didn’t learn his lesson after Yashin and DP, I’d say he deserves it, but it would kill the team, so Wang had better have learned from his past mistakes.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Feb 2, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
That's the big downside, but if we're just "kicking the tires' doesn't hurt to find out.
"This season is a serious misallocation of valuable hockey resources"- Saving Private Tavares
by FireGarthSnow on Feb 2, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, I just traded Semin and Cam Ward for JT in a fantasy league, can I take Snow's place,lol
"This season is a serious misallocation of valuable hockey resources"- Saving Private Tavares
You could take milbury’s place.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
by Turgeon1992 on Feb 2, 2012 7:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
bigger and younger
Isles need a bigger younger #2 for Mark Streit. If Cody Franson were available, he’d be ideal. Another possibility is Goncharov on PHO. If the Isles get back in the mix, they might trade for somebody like Aucoin or Kubina as a rental that they might re-sign in the off season. The last two aren’t younger but are bigger.. If Burkie gets antsy about Monster, he might be convinced to move Franson for Nabby.
Aucoin
I’d love to see this guy back. I remember those lasers he used to shoot. I don’t know how he has been doing lately but if he were to put on that Islander sweater again maybe he could recapture some of that magic for old times sake.
Not ready for retirement yet
More then 23 min TOI in last game for a competitive team. He’d be an upgrade over either Staios or Jurcina. Short term solution until Mayfield’s ready?
i too am intrigued about the possibilities of dealing with 'burkie'...
i live near toronto, so i hear a ton of so called rumours (not that you need to live near toronto to hear them). but, they have a glut of younger defenseman most likely up for graps, including franson, aulie, schenn, etc… they have a definite need at top 6 forward, and possibly for a veteran goalie. i know dealing PAP is not a popular move with the fans, but would you for schenn? i’d love to move nabby for any of the above, but it seems like more of a long shot to me.
It would be.
I know that Schenn is the TYPE of defenseman I’d like the Isles to acquire. But I’m not sure he meets the quality regulations. (Have fun replying to this one.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
PA’s not Burkie’s kind of F and is a UFA besides. Sure, Monster’s looked good lately, but if he stumbles these next few weeks, Burkie might get nervous and Wilson has history w/ Nabby. For Schenn, the only NYI Burkie would likely consider is Ox and I assume he is off the table. More likely Nabby or Josh for Franson.
Our good friends at Hockey Wilderness pegs his value at late first/early second round pick.
If that’s the asking price, I’ll pass.
Contributor for Lighthouse Hockey. Definitely neither the Sniper nor the Enforcer.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Feb 2, 2012 6:56 AM EST reply actions
Everybody pegs every player for waaaaay too much
That’s exorbitant for Zidlicky. Especially given the stats, scratches and airing of grievances.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 2, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I realize that the market for D is more expensive
But if a solid, experienced goalie like Nabby isn’t expected to bring more than a 3rd round pick, I can’t imagine Zidlickly garnering more.
Lighthouse Hockey. Where Islanders fans come to panic with punctuation.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Feb 2, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
As far as the goalie market...
…probably at least 50% of it depends on the goalies available RIGHT NOW. Most of the goalies in the NHL are used as temporary fixes. Maybe 10-15 are players who (most) franchises would consider committing 5+ year contracts. This landscape changed just before Isles signed Rick, and that is one of the reasons the media thought the 15-years was ridiculous. (There are a LOT more average-ish goalies than there used to be.)
If Nabby is only one of two or three goalies on the market this trade deadline, Isles could get even more for him than we anticipate. (A lot depends on the timing of goalie injuries too.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'd bet the real price will be lower than what they hope
And higher than what we’d suggest.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Better Option
Why take a chance, ask if you must. It would be wiser to there save there resources and go after Suter. If the rumors are true and he wants out of Nashville
I heard he wants to stay
but wants Nashville to really try for the Cup.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Feb 2, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
don't islander fans hate when garth is just kicking the tires?
If zidlicky can be picked up for a 3rd or lower, then there may be value in the trade. To appease yeo and get their team back on top, the wild may bite on a Waddell style trade. I wouldn’t give up a first or second for the guy.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
by Turgeon1992 on Feb 2, 2012 8:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Zidlickidy Split
My biggest concern is the $4M next year. If he is Mark Streit II, great. The more likely situation is that he is a replacement for Eaton, a downgrade defensively and a second unit PP QB until Donovan and/or deHaan are ready to take that role.
I think I am drawing the line at elite this season. If they can make a deal with a team that wants to get rid of a limited question mark D salary for a forward prospect and some picks… that’s the no brainer.
Even for free, the $4M next year can be a hinderance next year. (see Brian Rolston). We do not operate in respect to the Salary Cap, we navigate the shallopw water between the shore (Budget constraints) and the rocky bottom of the CAP FLOOR.
I’d pass on Zidlicky. I think I’d rather see Donovan, Reese and/or Wishart replace Eaton and Staios for parts of the final 30 games. Wishart is probably the best bet to replace Eaton next year… give him a chance to prove that he’s ready.
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
Elite would be great, but how many teams are parting with elite defenseman?
It would be nice to see what Wishart is capable of this season, but even with Wishart, Reese and Donovan the Islanders would still need a defenseman or two. If we wait to the off season we wind up with whomever the Devils need to get rid of.
The problem as I see it, is no one even wants our money unless it is outrageous, so having a guy signed for a year at a reasonable salary won’t hurt long term.
by Hockey1919 on Feb 2, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well played.
If we wait to the off season we wind up with whomever the Devils need to get rid of.
Recognition of his audience and fellow debater.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see an outrageous 2-year offer...
…to Boychuk, or even Wideman. If it takes $6 million per year, fine. $7 million, fine.
If that means cutting ties with Parenteau (as much as I like him), do it. Trade him for a 2nd round pick. (I reserve the right to retract this comment in the near future.)
Would Boychuk turn down the offer because it is only a 2-year deal? I don’t think so. In fact, he may favor it, because it sets him up for another big payday. And it gives him a chance to see if Isles are really turning the corner. Perhaps even a 1-year deal at $8 million? Is that allowed?
This is all theoretical and reckless, but I’d rather have:
Boychuk and a 2nd round pick with forwards:
Moulson-Tavares-Okposo
Ullstrom-Bailey-Martin
Grabner-Nielsen-???
…than Zidlicky, minus a 4th rounder, plus PAP.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure why you disappear PAP...
Moulson-Tavares-Okposo
Ullstrom-Bailey-Rhett
Grabner-Nielsen-PAP
Martin-(Reasoner/Cizikas)-(Nino/Haley)
Rhett and PAP can be swapped for offensive/defensive roles.
Nino, unless he lights up the second half could spend 30-40 games in the A in more important roles while you start the season swapping fourth line roles among Haley, Colliton and maybe Wallace.
Reasoner starts the season and you should have Colliton for injury depth and Cizikas if he proves ready by mid-season.
All that and you can still have Boychuk… if he’ll accept your offer. Zidlicky might cost an asset or a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a deep draft… plus budget space.
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
My logic was...
…take the $4 million from Zidlicky and $3+ million from PAP and use it towards Boychuk instead.
But I’d love for Isles to have PAP and Nielsen and Boychuk, if Wang is willing to afford it. Anything better than that in the upcoming months would be hard to believe.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Feb 2, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
yes...
in regards to the budget this will be an issue.
There are runors, and suggestions coming it a little accelerated pace now. I think the way to floor these are in this sequence:
Do they address a need?
What is the priority of that need?
What is the short term cost?
What does it make the roster look like next year? <- PLAYOFF ROSTER
What is the long term cost?
What does it make the roster look like in 2013-14? <-DEEP RUN ROSTER
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
I would not mine this scenario, but
The Islanders could wind up not signing PAP to save the money, pass on Zidlicky and then Boychuk says no. That leaves even more holes. I also think PAP + a defenseman in hand is worth more than a Boychuk and a potential offer.
I really don't think they can afford to let PAP expire
Hell, sign the man and at minimum in a worst-case scenario you have a salary dump on your hands.
Agreeing with you, they’re just too much at risk to have their best laid plans come up empty.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Feb 3, 2012 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Elite... in value.
Is Zidlicky that much of an improvement over Jurcina, who has the size the organization is so depleted in.
Is he worth doubling Eaton’s salary for questionable production?
Can he be replaced in the long term by who-ever rises from the Wishart/Katic/Donovan/deHaan crowd?
I don’t think he fills the needs the Islanders have. They have three, maybe four capable 5-8 defenders for next year if they sign either Jurcina or Eaton. What they need is a player more of the Hamonic mold that will play 20+ physical minutes. If you’re going to tie up $4M next year, that’s what I want. I’d rather tie up $6M and get that hole filled, than spend $4M for somebody that gives us what we have in Mark Streit… with the same expiration date.
The second part is… you won’t see anybody in their respective race parting with an elite defender, but once teams start dropping off that list they will start to shed salary. In that set, you need to identify a player that will match up with your needs. They need to be physical, have a more mobile profile than Jurcina and be able to log minutes with Streit and his eventual replacement. That is not Zidlicky. He also needs to have two years left on his contract, or the mindset of somebody who can be signed if it works out. Do you really want somebody complaining that he’s not on the first pairing with Hamonic… especially with non-confrontational superiors… that’s $4M being waived so they lose the asset for nada.
I am just saying that you approach this little package at the side of the road with more caution than Moulson, Grabner or Parentau who cost you almost nothing.
Remember how many assets we have in the bag, and the fact that we have limited room in the time window where they will be the most valuable. Would you give up one of the four top forward prspects for Zidlicky… most likely not… but they need to be for sale for the right D.
I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA
Again, I'm not waiving the flag to say Zidlicky is THE answer
but we have to have realistic expectations as well. If Garth could get a top four defender for a mid-level pick he would be crazy not to. More than likely he will have enough holes to fill that a guy like Zidlicky, will not block an NHL ready player if the team is serious about competing. He has the same expiration date as Streit (maybe), but that coincides with the teams AHL level defenseman readiness date, so I’m not too concerned about that.
My bigger concern would be insisting a player remain on the NHL roster, just because they need to pay him and need to make the floor. That is something the team has total control over and yet seem slow to react to.
Interesting point
One advantage of young players who may or may not be NHL ready is their ability to move around freely without exposing them to waivers, so long as they don’t play a certain number of games first. Remember Bailey’s brief demotion last season was one game prior to that cutoff. Nino will fall into the same category next season, perhaps even for the whole season depending on how the rest of this year goes for him.
Players like de Haan and Donovan can shuttle up and back, giving a team the flexibility to take a flyer on a guy like Zidlicky. If he pans out, super. If he gets hurt here and there, it’s no big deal, the kids will handle a few weeks here and there with careful usage. If those kids really excel the way Hamonic did, Zidlicky can be flipped. And I think the Isles currently have three open spots on their blueline next season to play with; having a veteran option is not a terrible thing. (Having a stud in one of those slots would be better of course, but you can’t just keep taking strikes waiting for a home run, or you strike out looking.)
It’s being stuck all with veterans (none of whom pan out for a variety of reasons) before the kids are ready that has been dragging this year down. And that’s not just the defense, either, but the forward spots on the bottom six – it’s a case of the Isles coming up with at best a pair of deuces among their seven-card hand (Eaton, Mottau, Juice, Staios, Pandolfo, Rolston, Reasoner).
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Summer time blues
can’t just keep taking strikes waiting for a home run, or you strike out looking
Perfect, this should be the Islanders off season slogan.
by Hockey1919 on Feb 3, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My perception on Zidlicky is the same perception I had of Eaton and Jurcina before they were Islanders
… so because of that, I’m less likely to jump on board with this.
I’d like to see this youth movement continue all the way through (de haan, donovan, reese) rather than do what we seemed to do this year and throw money at crappy vets
by BaltimoreIslander on Feb 2, 2012 10:38 AM EST reply actions
Maybe I'd bite on waivers
But he’s not worth any asset, really. I’d much rather let the youth get promoted. Donovan has played so well I’d rather give him a chance than pick up another cap mule who’s past his prime. CDH is ready next year if he’s healthy. Ness might even be better than a 35 year old Zidlicky. Absolutely no reason to pick up a player like this at this point of the rebuild.
No Sleep 'til....We Find Some Secondary Scoring
Zidlicky...
keeping this short: i’d take him for a year and would only give a low end pick or a high salary (i.e. rolston). he’d be a PP guy and might get top 4 minutes. it’d be great if minnesota was willing to pay at least half his salary.
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
If the Wild took Rolston, the Isles would need Zidlicky's full (pro-rated) salary to stay above the floor.
At least, I think so.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock...
I just want to say to everyone here
I really enjoyed this discussion. (Alas, I didn’t have time to take part in it much after I posted!)
Thanks to everyone for offering opinions AND parsing out the scenarios and decision-making process you’d pursue. This is SO MUCH more enjoyable for me than 1) “I heard a rumor they’re in on Nash!!!1” and 2) “I can’t believe they haven’t acquired every player that’s rumored to be on the market. How clueless!”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

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