Milbury Islanders vs. Current Oilers
by PGI on Jan 30, 2012 11:11 PM EST
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Edmonton Journal hockey writer Jonathan Willis posted an article on Monday comparing the current Edmonton Oilers rebuild with the Mike Milbury-led Islanders of the mid 90's and mid 2000s. Since I'm endlessly fascinated by the depths to which Milbury sunk the Islanders, I found the article very intriguing and I think others will, too.
Willis is very respectful of the Islanders, and the article isn't yet another delivery system for easy Yashin or DiPietro gags. In a shocking turn of events, he writes as if Milbury was an actual NHL general manager, and not a demon sent from Hades to pulverize a once-proud franchise into a fine gray powder. I don't know if I'd agree that trading a 22-year-old Calder Trophy-winning offensive defenseman for the withered husk of a sub-mediocre goalie when you already have a mediocre goalie on the roster constitutes what Willis calls "shoring up their goaltending," but the viewpoint is refreshing.
He's also the first writer I think I've ever read to acknowledge that the Yashin for Chara/Spezza trade was a necessity that did result in a short term gain for the Islanders (a.k.a. a long-awaited appearance in the playoffs). Yashin's dreadful contract and decline, and Chara's rise into a force of Voltron-like proportions, eventually made a deal a disaster.
He compares the Islanders and Oilers records and draft positions over an eerily similar period of time. Basically, each team had a few terrible seasons, a couple of competent seasons, and then a couple more terrible seasons. High draft picks were "earned" and used on young talent. Of course, one big difference is that the Oilers have thus far chosen to hold on to those players (including Gagne, Eberle and the Hall/Nugent-Hopkins combo) to see if they develop into what the team expected. As opposed to the Milburian philosophy of trading everybody all the time out of a possible pathological need to swap one player for another regardless of who or what those players were.
The other big difference, and my main criticism of the piece, is that not enough is made of the 2000 draft in which the Islanders not only traded Roberto Luongo, but drafted Rick DiPietro first overall. This one move may have set the Islanders back the furthest of anything Milbury did during his reign of terror. With the exception of two seasons of Chris Osgood, the Islanders have had exactly zero stability in net in the dozen years since that draft due to DiPietro's epic injury history. Not a good way to build a franchise. Willis also doesn't mention that J.P. Dumont and Mike Rupp, both Milbury first round draft picks, never played a game for the Islanders.
It's an interesting article as Dom and a few others have also pointed out the similarities between these two old rivals. So if you meet an Oilers fan, tell them to hang in there. Because if these parallels continue, they'll be watching Ryan Nugent-Hopkins' Columbus Blue Jackets versus Taylor Hall's Florida Panthers in the 2022 Stanley Cup Finals.
(I've only recently discovered Willis' writing via Puck Daddy's Tuesday chats and he's definitely worth following on Twitter. His concentration is on the Oilers, but he covers the entire NHL with excellent insight. His Twitter handle is @jonathanwillis)
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Very good read
and like you said, a fresh perspective on the Milbury Era. He is much kinder in his words than any Islander fan or Analyst would ever be in terms of the deals that were made.
He hit the nail on the spot that the Islanders were able to acquire good and sometimes great picks. That was never an issue until the early 2000s after say the 2001 draft. Holding onto to those picks was another story. He also did not mention the Bertuzzi and Mcabe trades. Either way Milbury was nuts and I hope the Oilers do not have a firesale on their young prospects.
I was able to catch the piece on the comparison of the Atlanta rebuild which was another good read in itself and had some Atlanta fans posting in the comments giving some good insight on the ownership, another saga. But he mentioned akin to Atlanta and much like the Islanders right now, what was lacking in the drafts was quality defensemen. So Atlanta may have had Kovalchuk and Hossa/Heatly and others but nothing in terms of a blueline The Oilers like the Islanders have defensive prospects but they are just not in the same league or not ready like many forward prospects. I believe that is why a lot of GMs start with the Defense first routine, because forwards can always be drafted or traded for much more easily in comparison. While the both of us have great forwards in the pipeline, its our defense that will win the playoffs.
I think both teams are on the right track, both teams seem to be drafting well, not just in the first round but other rounds as well, which Atlanta did not have huge success. Now the key is development, gaining some momentum, some good seasons and start off a culture of success (like Detroit) that will last 2 decades and continue. You can still be a small market team and have success. You just have to be Smart, and I believe that is the way Snow is setting up our team.
Travis Hamonic is a good start, but we need to surround the kid with some help and help for our forwards because our lack in D production is scary right now.
Always th
The D
We’ve got De Haan, Donovan, Ness, Wishart and Katic in the A. Next year it gets better.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
While we certainly have D prospects
also Mayfield and Pedan, we do not have top shutdown guys who can log minutes near ready. Certainly all the guys are capable next season to step it up, but much in the same mold. I certainly like that we a few to choose from who can all add offensive flair to the game.
Also add Kitchon and Russo to the same kind of spec as the above. Out of all these guys I am sure at least 2 of them will pan into PP quarterbacks who can put up 40+ pts a season.
Crazy that their best D pick was Coburn
…and that they traded him for Fumes of Zhitnik.
I figure the theory the Isles operate under is that high-end forward talent is more clearly identified and taken at the top of the draft, whereas D-men can slip through the cracks and break out later. That creates a forward-heavy quality prospect pool while you wait on hopefuls what they have in the pipeline.
The way they are at evaluating defensemen overall, I’m almost relieved they haven’t burned top 10 picks on them.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Jan 31, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That trade irritated me so much.....
because we’d just traded Zhitnik for FMIV.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
If only there were a crystal ball
To tell how desperate Waddell would be a few months later.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Yashin/Chara trade
I still think it’s a bad trade, even if Chara only becomes an average defenseman. He’s still 6’9. Then if you add in that the Islanders could have had Heatley or Gaborik in the 2000 draft, alongside Spezza in 2001. By 03-04 Spezza was already a force, getting 22 goals and 55 points in just his second season. Which was only 20 points less then Yashin’s first Isles season and 10 less then his 2nd. Then Spezza basically blows Yashin out of the water in points comparison for the next two seasons before Yashin’s bought out.
I don’t think it’s tough to imagine Spezza being just as good on the Island, especially if the Isles don’t draft DP. Then you have the advantage of a 6 foot freakin 9 defenseman still being on the team too.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
you also then have a friggin vezina finalist goaltender in luongo
Why yes, I do have a man crush on Bailey and Martin, and no, I don't care what you think about it
You guys
if you continue thinking this way, you’re going to give yourself Islander Rage.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Jan 31, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
give myself it
I’ve had it since i was born into this cult
Why yes, I do have a man crush on Bailey and Martin, and no, I don't care what you think about it
by DarthDoyle on Jan 31, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not only that
But young out of his mind talented Luongo, who almost willed the Panthers into the playoffs. Not the shattered shell of a goalie he is today.
"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Good read. But I'll believe the Milbury comparison when I see them trade away their stars or future stars. lol
Hemsky could be the beginning of that, or letting him walk for nothing kind of is.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Star is a weird term. But Hemsky has been a 65pts/yr forward his whole career, and a 70pts/gm guy "at his best".
I’m not sure you’d call him a star, but 1st line talent, high-end offensive forward, yeah. He is great offensive talent and his loss would be felt in Edmonton. “Bad” teams really shouldn’t let players like that leave that have at minimum a few good years of great production in him still. Although he does get the injury bug a good amount. Even in a bad year he was gonna put up 40pts+. And it’s not a complete coincidence his pts production has gone down. He’s been moved to the 2nd PP unit. You put him on the top PP and he’s back to being a 60pts/yr forward(or better according to stats).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Little fyi, 60pts is good enough to be a top 46 offensive forward in the NHL.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"John Tavares(a top 10 forward in the NHL)"-Neil Greenberg
Hemsky is pretty damned good
Basically the shoulder injuries have kept him off the ice two of the last three years, but before that he was fairly healthy and often dragging awful teammates around.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Feb 6, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
