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'Science of NHL Hockey' Might Teach a Thing or Two

Leave it to the Cornell guy to get all science-y with this stuff.

It's not clear whether the NBC Sports "Science of NHL Hockey" segments will do more to teach kids about physics using hockey, or teach anyone about hockey using physics.

In either case it's a refreshing initiative and a great jumping off point for a fun topic: The little, often unseen biomechanic factors involved in a hockey game.

There's a kinematics preview video with Matt Moulson embedded below, you can watch several of the other segments here, and read a good New York Times backgrounder on the initiative here.

If you have never played hockey, or have never played it on ice, you might not be aware of the many little physical things that influence a player's ability to pull off an action which is done with a simple two-button combo on NHL 12. (Of course, even when we do play, it's no guarantee we understand what's going on at a vastly more skilled level.)

The point is there is so much to learn about this game. This topic is one I don't see covered enough yet have always wanted to explore more here using the collective wisdom of crowds.

So please see this post as an invitation and jumping off point on the subject if you're so inclined. After all, physical intelligence is a beautiful thing, and I'd wager it's a major unspoken reason so many of us watch sports.

Star-divide

I'd also suggest hockey, unlike basketball or football or baseball, is a little unique in most of the U.S. because most adults did not experience playing it as kids and don't have that basic physical memory to turn to as a reference point when comprehending an individual move. (It's almost the inverse of soccer in that way.) Hockey's a fascinating spectator sport that doesn't require any prior experience to evoke that fascination.

(I may be unfairly singling hockey out simply because I know it best and in fact am far more physically ignorant about the other sports. My baseball-playing college roommate and I used to have great discussions trading notes on the physics of baseball versus the physics of hockey.)

Matt Moulson in HD Slo-Mo



I've found this sometimes leads to interesting conversations with newer fans -- accustomed to the ease of running and stopping on foot -- who don't quite understand the speed and difference at work on ice skates. (On that note, the difference in forces between ice and roller hockey are significant. Ice is a game with as little friction as possible. Roller hockey introduces much more friction, both with the puck and skating and goaltending, but also with the areas of the body that feel that friction.)

This is not meant as some sort of lecture to those who haven't been lucky enough to play hockey, or to play it on ice. I just think this topic opens up whole new ways to think about the game and marvel at those who master it. Ideally this might even serve as an impetus for our community members to share observations and ask questions that come up now or in the future.

Why Did He Do That?!

The most commonly asked question -- and its many profanity-laden variations -- has perhaps the easiest answer: He didn't mean to.

With rare exceptions (the Blake Comeau COZO, the Brian Rolston 80-foot long dump), when a player does something puzzling it's not necessarily because he meant to do what you just saw: It's because he meant to do something else. But a lack of ability, time, space, or a miscommunication kept him from pulling it off. Whether it's Rob Schremp in the NHL or that dazzling guy you saw at rec hockey that one time, most players stop rising once they get to a level where they can no longer do what they did at the previous level, and are unable to adapt that new reality to their new surroundings.

But aside from talent, there are plenty of other possible factors on any given play. A throwaway example: You might hear upon a close rebound stuffed low into the goalies pads, "He really needs to learn how to lift that shot." Rest assured, NHL players know how to lift their shots. Even stay-at-home defensemen know how to lift a shot in tight. It's just another thing entirely when a defender is pushing on your back, you're weight involuntarily shifted to one leg (if that) or you're at the extent of your reach on the backhand, you're battling an ankle or wrist or thumb injury that makes in-tight maneuvering difficult -- and oh, by the way, you're on the 60th second of your shift.

Basically, there are countless variables in one shift that can make an NHL player appear to be unable to do what he can in fact do in better conditions. Body positioning, momentary fatigue from sprinting, aches, opponents' interference -- remember, they want to use all of their power to prevent the attempt -- and the underlying pressure from the girlfriend to buy a ring may be at work on any given play.

"Why didn't Michael Grabner go for that long pass? He's faster than that!"

It's possible he's at the end of his shift, it's possible he just took a whack on the ankle that made acceleration momentarily difficult, it's possible he was just hollered at from the bench to change. Basically, of all the possible explanations, the least likely is that Grabner suddenly sucks, suddenly decided to tick you off, or suddenly decided that he no longer cares.

"Why didn't he level that guy?!"

It's possible he was conserving energy on a long shift. It's possible his feet weren't positioned for a good wallop and he had to play it safe. It's possible his partner made him aware of a threat that would make going for the Phaneuf not worth the risk of a scoring chance allowed. It's possible he has a wonky shoulder that demands respecting the marathon in favor of the sprint.

We tend to fall into the trap of thinking bodychecking is as easy as pushing the B button. It's actually one of the toughest skills to master at the NHL level, and that's a major reason we see so many NHLers do it poorly and end up with Shanabans: Sometimes they don't think they're doing anything risky or wrong -- but that's because they did what they've always done in hockey, except now the speeds are that much greater and require that much more pinpoint accuracy.

Beyond being punishing to one's own body, bodychecking requires good skating, good anticipation and good agile reaction. That's what makes the open-ice hit the rarest of forms: The checker is chasing a puck-carrier who has any number of alternative directions to turn to, and the burden is on the checker to not turn a sudden move into a knee-on-knee or worse.

Why Can't He Catch Him?

Speaking of skating, that's often the biggest differentiator at any level of hockey. Prospect after prospect has hit the wall for lack of this basic yet essential skill. Michael Grabner is that rare player whose hands need to catch up with his skating rather than the other way around.

John Tavares' skating -- one of the few knocks during his draft year -- has improved remarkably since his rookie year, but I'd bet it's not all due to leg strength. There are people with very strong legs who can never figure out how to put it together on ice.

Skating at its heart requires a delicate balance and communication between the feet and upper legs (obviously) as well as the core muscles and upper body balance, including overall posture. It's hardly a natural activity unless a player was born in skates, and often players progress very far with an inefficient skating style that needs tweaking. There are a lot of styles and a lot of different schools of thought on how best to maximize skating -- and one's size (of limbs, of torso, etc.) and natural attributes affect which approach is best -- but the best skating coach is someone who is both excellent at identifying inefficiencies and in conveying how a skater can get in touch with those small posture and muscle movements that will make a difference.

"Why didn't he STOP that shot?"

The least understood position is probably goaltending. There are physics, mobility and anticipation factors that look deceptively simple from the outside because the goalie is essentially in a confined area. But there are multiple approaches to the position, and whether a goalie tends more toward butterfly or "blocking" style also affects how they will look to the outside observer in certain situations.

(Picture Ed Belfour or J.S. Giguere staying big and square in percentage-lowering, angle-playing position up in their crease versus Henrik Lundqvist sitting further back, making reactive save after reactive save, versus Martin Brodeur mixing an unpredictable variety of toe, pad-stack and traditional butterfly saves)

Amusingly, some of the "greatest" saves are saves made when a goaltender is actually out of position but takes great pains to bail himself out. That in itself captures the deceptive nature of the goaltending position, where sexy and highlight reel is not always good.

On that note, one thing worth remembering is that a goalie's movements are designed not merely to stop (or in case of a screen, increase the odds of stopping) that first shot, but also to best prepare him for the rebound if there is one. Rebounds are a huge source of goals in hockey, so minimizing them is ideal but not always in the goalie's control. Being in position to handle them is what separates the elite from the rest of the pack.

Sometimes the goalie's just not good. Sometimes he's unlucky. Sometimes he's screened and sometimes the puck just isn't hitting him in the chest as much. (Incidentally, because of the pushes and slides, playing goaltender on roller hockey is quite different from on ice. Ice goalies carve up their crease each period to create grip that is still nothing compared to the friction that a roller surface provides.)

That's enough out of me. Refute, debate, add more -- or just see this as an open invitation to go into this topic at a later date when the right situation arises. (Note: Injuries are also a fun topic. Knee, shoulder, wrist, thumb, groin and abdominal injuries have taught me far more than I ever wished to know about how they can affect basic movement and performance.)

To close on a more concrete note, John Tavares is amazing because there are so many things he does with the puck that most players in the world would not even think to do at any level, let alone successfully pull off. Add to it the eyes in the back of his head and ... awww, sick. I don't think we'll ever understand him. But some of these other guys, we can at least try to guess.

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Love this topic

ESPN does this series with football and I’m intrigued by most of them. Makes me also think I should revisit my “stick selection” sciencey paper I’ve been talking about forever.

I think the biggest thing you mention here is the fatigue factor (at least it was for me). And not that I was ever good, but at the tail end of shifts, I could tell that my entire body was out of balance.

My posture was poor, I was reaching, so my skating was slow and ugly, my shot had little authority or lift, and essentially, I would be standing up straight and immobile and the play passes you by.

The biggest thing in my opinion is “being over your center of gravity” while remaining in constant, controlled motion. Everything needs to be square to where you’re going (head, holders, hips, knees, feet and stick/hands) and the second any one of those things is out o alignment, you’re like Bambi out there.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jan 26, 2012 8:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I meant to mention that fatigue and high-performance as part of why pro shifts are so short

And exactly, the fatigue is when all those body fundamentals like posture and being square breaks down.

I guess for those who don’t skate, a simple analogy is imagine doing a very routine action (all the steps to prepare your coffeemaker or something), and then imagine doing that very routine action after sprinting up and down the hall for 30 seconds at your top speed, with someone having leveled you to the ground in mid-sprint.

Bambi is good: This momentary fatigue makes doing routine acts suddenly off.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

"A heavy shot"

Butchie often says, “He’s got a heavy shot”. Can someone explain the physics on that one? There are often things you see in sports that fool the eye. When I played baseball, I would swear a pitcher would have a rising fastball. Later I read that it’s impossible. What is really happening with extremely fast pitches is that the ball is dropping less than normal ; thus appear to the batter’s eye to be rising?
So what is meant by a heavy shot? Does he just mean a fast shot? A fast shot with little perceived effort???

by JoRiverside on Jan 26, 2012 8:24 AM EST reply actions  

pitches too

I’ve heard the same description used in baseball to describe a pitcher. I think in that case, it might have to do with the pitch hitting the catcher harder than expected, so it might relate to the idea of a “fast shot with little perceived effort”, he doesn’t look like he’s throwing that hard, but it hits hard.

I’d imagine if that’s the correct interpretation, this can make things difficult for a goalie and can lead to pucks that would normally get caught in the chest bouncing out because of the unexpectedness of the shot…

by dunnowhat2type on Jan 26, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I've always inferred that as well

That there is a perception part to it, in that your visual of the release does not betray just how hard the shot is.

So much for the goalie on an individual shot is interpreting the timing of the release and taking cues (body position, position of the shooter’s blade and hands) to better anticipate where and how fast the shot is heading. I always figured they say “heavy” shot when it comes off harder and more accurate than you expect.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Heavy Pitches

I thought I read that a ‘heavy’ pitch was a fastball that had some sink. So, it ended up lower when you were swinging at it. Not sure about the shot though.

by IDigRcks on Jan 26, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

as a former catcher

up til HS (i was lefty, a no-no for my coach) i did get to warm up guys as a frosh, though…

i always related guys with heavy shots, or who throw a heavy ball, do just that, an 80 mph fb hits your glove and stings, versus the 80 mph that doesn’t… never thought about the science of it or anything, but it’s a real thing i’ve experienced… whether it was sinking, i don’t remember that much movement… but there may something to that…

These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar

by bob l on Jan 26, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never been totally sure

But I’ve always assumed it has to do with someone who can generate a lot of spin (in essence, torque) on the puck. That shot would have more momentum and require a greater opposing force to stop, thus feeling “heavier.”

I’m kind of guessing here, but that’s what I also assumed was the case when I was a catcher. Breaking pitches often felt heavier to catch than fastballs moving with greater velocity, which I chalked up to the increased spin.

by afrosupreme on Jan 26, 2012 8:52 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That’s really interesting, I try not to think back on my days in calc physics 1, that class was just so miserable. Torque doesn’t really stay in the front of my mind.

by dunnowhat2type on Jan 26, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I've always thought of it as

A shot that’s fast, but not the fastest shot, and accurate and purposeful…if that makes sense. A lot of people can shoot like Rolston, but if you take a couple mph off and hit the net, hoping for a rebound or deflection, then your shot has more potential to be helpful to the team.

by Empire39 on Jan 26, 2012 9:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, something like this

Not fast, but accurate and hard. It won’t blow right by you, you’d see it coming, but it would hurt and know exactly where it’s going.

Of course, when trying to analyze Butch’s analysis, it may be best not to think to hard about it.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

My thought on the speed

Never confirmed BTW, was that maybe it is a shot or pitch that maintains its speed throughout the entirety of the distance the projectile travels .

I do know that velocity is lost over distances…and everything is faster at the inception if the action…and pretty sure that is the hardest shot competition is from like 10 feet away.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jan 26, 2012 11:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Once released it will decelerate, so it really is a question of how fast it left the pitchers hand.

Why the follow thru on a slapper is key (maintianing the acceleration until the last second), but a snap shot which quickly accelarates the puck can move nearly as fast.

by Hockey1919 on Jan 26, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The mathematical impossibility - the "heavy" shot

I just think it is a nice expression, but the key to a “hard” shot is the acceleration you put on the puck (simple F=ma). A heavy shot to me always implied that a shot was more powerful (Work/Time), but not any faster.

So two guys shoot a puck at the same speed, the heavier “shot” would go through a wall and the “lighter” shot would bounce off the wall. If a guy is shooting the puck through the wall then his puck must have been at a higher rate of accelaration when it left the stick and therefore had more force. I cannot see how a puck that is shot slower would go through the wall as the concept of a “heavy” shot implies.

I think people see a big guy fire a puck and assume the shot must be harder than a little guy shooting the puck at the same speed. But that’s just my thought.

by Hockey1919 on Jan 26, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This is why I always figure that term refers to perception

With the (extreme) inverse being someone taking a big exaggerated wind-up and lofting a little Eaton toward the net.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I always thought a 'heavy shot' is one where the puck is still accelerating when it gets to the net/goalie.

I am no physicist, though. I have no idea if that’s actually possible. All shots might accelerate or maybe the puck is at its max velocity after leaving the stick. IDK

by Bepfront on Jan 26, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard that when a soccer ball...

…is kicked with top spin, it actually accelerates in mid flight, meaning it can be faster when it hits the goalie’s gloves than when it is kicked. I am not sure if the lateral (horizontal) speed actually increases or if the ball’s initial rising energy turns into lateral energy (or how much gravity has to do with it), but top-spun shots can definitely sneak up on a keeper.

Similar thing with table tennis (or tennis, I suppose.)

Puck is a lot different, though.

"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jan 27, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

An oddity

A little OT, but I played with two soccer players (two different teams) who could consistently kick the ball hard with the inside of their right foot and have the ball spin/curve to the right. (Normally it spins/curves to the left.) I watched each and couldn’t figure it out. Sometimes the subtlest differences can cause very different outcomes.

"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jan 27, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Those guys are amazing

I never could figure out any half-way interesting touches on the ball like that.

Which is probably how I ended up a goalkeeper.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 27, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

The most interesting thing

About the Moulson video: I don’t think I have ever seen him that clean shaven. The whiskers must add velocity to his shot.

by kennyboy13 on Jan 26, 2012 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

Heavy vs. fast

In baseball, I know that it’s an attempt to describe a pitch that’s hard to get into the air. A sinker might be 10-15 mph slower than a real good fastball, but if the fastball comes in straight (think Kyle Farnsworth) it’s gonna get creamed. Major league hitters will eventually catch up to the speed and turn on it. A sinker can feel “heavy” even though it’s slower because it’s harder to time, and even if you hit it on the screws, you hit a two-hopper to short or a maybe a lazy fly ball.

As far as hockey is concerned… well, the idea (sorry Rolston) isn’t to put the puck over the wall and into the stands, so heavy has a different tone to it. As stupid as it sounds, some guys’ shots just feel like they hit you harder and are more tricky to control. There’s more overlap there, though – at least IMHO as a schlub-level deck goalie. There are a few guys who really bring it even on my level, except some of them seem to have quick darting shots. It’s like trying to catch a hummingbird. (That damn ball hooks and slices on you – it’s like every shot is a deflection – it makes me look like a moron because they can beat me even if I see it all the way in. Hate those guys.) A few guys, though… it’s like they snuck a freaking billiard ball into the game and are shooting that instead. It doesn’t really look faster but it booms off you.

When I’ve played roller/puck, it’s the same thing, some guys’ shots are fast but easy to handle, and some guys’ shots just sting like hell. I’ve faced a few guys who either played high-level ice in their youth, and even a couple of the pro roller guys, and there is something different about them – that physical intelligence Dom mentioned – Tony Szabo knocked my stick out of my hand with a wrist shot. THAT is heavy.

(He also completely abused me on the one breakaway were he decided to try hard… I know I read him right on the move, and guys in my league, that would have been it, I would have stopped the shot. He saw that I read him and then just stopped the move halfway. It was ridiculous the body control he had. Of course I don’t have that going for me. He just waited for me to fall out of his way and slid the puck into the now-open net. I’m laughing now just thinking about it.)

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

I should have kept reading down here

I didn’t even get into the different reads happening in one-on-the-goalie, but I find that topic great, too. It’s actually another reason I hate the shootout, with it taking away the factor of urgency/defensive pusuit from the equation.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the higher level guys, release quicker higher acceleration and are actually shooting harder.

Heavy is a nice term, but as I posted above the acceleration of the puck means it really is shot harder due to the increased acceleration and therefore the shot is faster.

by Hockey1919 on Jan 26, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Moulson's next video will be...

“Your Flow and You” – Hockey Hair 101. Co-starring Barry Melrose, Jaromir Jagr and Mike Commodore.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 10:05 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

PAP and Matt Martin would be jealous.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jan 26, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

That Jagr mullet is unreal

Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.

by Fabtraption on Jan 26, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Commodore's is my favorite

Red-haired mountain man afro FTW. I agree that Jagr’s is unreal… but in more than one sense of the word. It doesn’t look like his hair at all, it looks like he’s wearing his cat during warmups.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I love the Commodore fro/beard combo. I'd grow it out if I could.

Jagr’s looks like he took a vow that involved not cutting his hair. lol

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Or just that he's Czech

Wild and crazy guy.

/slaps self, recalls father’s fashion sense

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I was lucky enough..

To play ice hockey . I was banned from playing footbal (soccer as you like to put it) for having a little bit of a ruthless streak & too many altercations, my dad thought that ice hockey would be a good outlet for my anger, as we had an ice rink only 10 mins away & had spent a lot of my spare time growing up skating with friends. I did not realise the shere mechanics & skill needed to play ice hockey, after six months of practising in the garden what felt like every night with a stick I was put out on the ice with my local team & loved every minute of it. I manged to play for 3 years until I was 18 & had to start paying the insurance for every game myself. People outside of the hockey world do not know how much skill, determination & fitness is required for these guys to do what they do every time they hit the ice. Ice hockey isnt massive here in England but for those of us who do enjoy & play it is a sport that has no comparison.

3 Teams 3 Different Sports Same Torture!!!

by Kung Fu Panda 48 on Jan 26, 2012 10:14 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

Excellent

I’m always eager to hear more about hockey on your side of the pond, too!

I forgot about that insurance angle. Takes me back to filling out forms with registration as a kid.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome story you can tell your kids haha

I love it! “I was too badass to play soccer so they threw me on a hockey rink instead” haha, seriously no sarcasm here, that’s good stuff.

Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to play ice hockey.. but definitely have ice skated a decent amount before and even now I still can’t stop or even skate backwards (so I can definitely appreciate all that the NHL players do) But those 2 factors have stopped me from trying to pick hockey up in a men’s league or something (that and the crazy cost of equipment to do such a thing)

Definitely appreciate this kind of stuff though, played soccer my entire life.. at a decently high level, so in terms of watching that sport, often I can understand a lot of what goes on, what needs to be done. I feel like just by the sheer amount of games I’ve been watching in the last 4 or 5 years, I’m starting to pick that sort of stuff up.. but that’s more based on strategies and things… not the physics or kinematics as they call it in this video. Probably wouldn’t been cooler if they got a faster skater though.. like Grabner or something. But hey, any Islander on national media is good stuff.

by BaltimoreIslander on Jan 26, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I wish I didn't have that problem also!

I feel I may know more than I should about the Kardashians from the missus rambling on. But I bet you haven’t had to stand in a que for 30 mins outside there DASH store in soho as payback for making the other half sit through the 6-0 mauling by the Bruins, don’t think staring at the ice girls backsides helped me there also as we were right next to where they come on the ice?.

3 Teams 3 Different Sports Same Torture!!!

by Kung Fu Panda 48 on Jan 26, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I always tell people

that my wife watches more Islanders games and knows more about the team than most national hockey broadcasters do. She usually doesn’t have a problem watching a game I really want to see.

Of course, the other side of the coin is I’ve had to watch (and come to enjoy) shows like Dr. Phil, Project Runway and America’s Next Top Model. I draw the line at Toddlers & Tairas, though.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Mrs. Lighthouse (lapsed Blues fan) has started to refer to the Islanders as "we"

Which freaks me out and is kind of cool but also is not worth any updates about Kardashians, Project Runway or Mob Wives.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I love my wife dearly

but it drives me crazy when she sees any play – icing, a save, puck over the glass, whatever – and asks, “Did they score?” My response is always, “do you see a bunch of guys waving their sticks in the air, hugging and patting themselves on the head while lights and sirens are going off?”

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

somewhat like my mom…

“why didn’t he just score? he was close enough to score there!!!”
mom, he had 2 defenders back and was just trying to kill off the last 15 seconds of the penalty
“i dont care, he should have scored there”
you’re right mom, i guess winning isn’t on top of his to-do list this game

These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar

by bob l on Jan 26, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That sounds like my dad

who can never understand how teams can sometimes not score on the power play.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

In her defense

Dale Hunter doesn’t know that’s a sign of scoring either.

by Bleuchz on Jan 28, 2012 3:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Another thing I find amazing

Is how the players can quickly scan an opposing player and by their body position, assess the best way of attacking them in 1:1 situations.

For example, noticing a guy has his weight all on his right foot, and heading to that side knowing that they need to shift weight to the left foot before they can head to the right.

I think this is what Tavares biggest skill is. He can tell by stick position and the squareness and position of the player how he can make it through and around them…and he processes it automatically and reacts instantly.

Now that the skating has caught up, he’s now able to exploit that gift even more.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jan 26, 2012 12:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Indeed

Reading into that to get around people is impressive. One of the guys on my roller team routinely gets defenders to fall over because not only can he read how their leaning and moving, but can make fakes and dekes to have them contradict their movements and fall over. I can’t even imagine how much more skill it takes to process that at NHL speed. I don’t even both, I Martin/Moulson chip it behind the defense and use my speed to go dig it out…no skill here!!

by GreekIsles83 on Jan 26, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that really is marvelous

Fully agree on Tavares’ strength in this area. So many times I worry he’s going to get clobbered — because worrying like a mother is what I do — and then I realize he read the guy’s body positioning far, far better than I did.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully the Science of NHL Hockey

can explain the boards around Nassau Coliseum.

I still think the place is haunted by ghosts.

Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.

by Fabtraption on Jan 26, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Talking about Fatigue

being the only goalie in the neighborhood, sometimes on the weekends I would be in for a surprise when I went to the park. Some weekends there would be double or triple the amount of people there, and I would be taking shots from basically 10 AM till the sun went down. A few times I tried to play on a Sunday after a 12 hour marathon day, and I flat out couldn’t move. I wouldn’t even know I was that tired until I went out and tried to play.

"Mark D: the internet's foremost chronicler of Milburian insanity" - Pretty Good Idiot
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Jan 26, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

I miss those days of 10-hours of hockey

Never did it in goal though!

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I miss those days

Being married puts the kibosh on stuff like that, though early on my wife actually went to one of the weekend ironman tournaments with me. Four games plus playoffs in one weekend, sweet. But even if she was willing to do that again, I don’t know if my body can handle it.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent Read

I’ve never actually played ice hockey. I’ve never riden a thoroughbred either, and after 35+ years of breaking each down I still don’t have a clue!

I do, however, feel that I have a better than average idea of what “should” happen during an NHL game… and that knowledge has definitely been accelerated by this site.

Thanks

When it comes to horse racing, I give thanks to my dad, and watching a house in the carribean finish “not first” over the years.

I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jan 26, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

It's those perspectives that make me love this

I’ve seen your perspectives watching for so long provide a whole different, helpful lens, too. We compensate for blind spots/lack of experience in different ways, and we lean on familiar strengths too much.

I used to try not to apply any amateur hockey perspectives to the NHL because come on, they’re worlds apart — but then I started to find instances where that biomechanic experience is helpful or does translate, in the right context.

Anyway, eople who never played have taught me a whole, whole lot: There are advantages to that “learn the hard way” approach. I think stars like Gretzky could never coach because they’ve never had to understand the game from the perspective of mere mortal players. Their players/teammates are playing hockey, while guys like Gretzky are playing in some other dimension that has somehow escaped the laboratory.

Horses are like four-legged goalies to me though: Beyond explanation.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The biggest leap...

as a non-playing fan (IMO) is when you develop the internal clock that allows you to realize the tempo of line changes.
From observing the game for a few years I understood the basics of offensive zone starts, but the stat itself had no significance to me until we discussed it here. In a vacuum I’d make sure that Nielsen and Grabner got every defensive zone start… but to reverse that, to better comprehend their worth… that comes from reading Garick and Ben (and others of course).
But the physical aspects of the game… wow… I would have so many questions if I was to sit next to a guy like Mottau (and that’s where he should be…sitting next to me). To me, one of the biggest decisions made by an NHL D is when to stand your check up at the blue line. Where is the spacing line where most players feel confident with that, and how does their individual balance level make that decision for them (right or wrong). The other is dump points… since the trapezoid I haven’t really figured out why 90% of dump ins don’t go to the opposite corner rather than down the boards. If you aimed 5 feet or so to the outside of the far post you would deaden the puck in a more consistent area, and goalies would have the ability to play the puck far less… But there must be some other physical agent that makes that a less than 50% choice.

I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jan 26, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Dumping it in
since the trapezoid I haven’t really figured out why 90% of dump ins don’t go to the opposite corner rather than down the boards

Unless you get the weak side forecheck in deep, the weak side defender will beat you to the puck more often than not. The area behind the net is a nice place to clog up the forecheck and hem the defense in to set up your rotation down low. I know I hate having the goaltender pull the puck off the boards, but that cross ice dump in some ways does that for you. Unless you practice tossing pennies and you can get that puck to stay right up against the dasher.

by Hockey1919 on Jan 26, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I need a visual aid...

to explain what I’m talking about.

Okay… so you have the puck on her right thigh. If the defensemen are in her bikini top, then what you say is correct… So rimming it around is better against a FIRM defense…. I guess I was talking about more of a Betty White defense, where both defenders would be up around the waistline… and the weak side forward has the advantage on a race to the left shoulder.

I LOVE TALKING HOCKEY!

I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jan 26, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

RIMMING IT AROUND

i went to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLACE then i think you intended your readers to go… lol

but hey, if that’s what it takes to get passed her defenses, then, toss me a tic-tac cuz
I"M GOING IN!

These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar

by bob l on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you went exactly where the play was headed...

And while it’s meant in good fun, we should stop there before it stops being fun.

Faceoff back out of the zone, guys.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like I'm back in junior high...

I make a joke under my breath, the guy next to me laughs and adds to it and he gets in trouble.

God, how I miss those days!

I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jan 26, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

Nobody’s in trouble, I’m just trying to keep it that way. And she is quite easy on the eyes.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Mostly what 1919 said

But sometimes the foreplayer checker might hear his coach in the back of his mind saying, “Patrick Flatley, he gets it in deep. And without the naval intercepting the dump-in.”

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

OK OK OK

I give up! ROFL

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet another reason to lament the COZO

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Oooh, oooh, oooh, me too!
I would have so many questions if I was to sit next to a guy like Mottau (and that’s where he should be…sitting next to me).

Yes! Or rather a frank discussion with someone who was once pretty good but has slowed down. (Doug Weight, perhaps?)

That’s one of the more intriguing undercovered areas: That physical process of adapting and REALIZING when the body has slowed down in both speed and agile or reactionary skill.

Some of these guys have to be aware and think about it well. Some of these guys have to be in denial. Some of these guys probably just think they need to play through this “injury” known as decline.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Just imagine

being Ray Bourque and to go from an elite push rushing defenseman to an elite defensive force over the course of a career.

It’s crazy how some players can adapt so well.

by Bleuchz on Jan 28, 2012 3:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The only time...

I’ve ever heard somebody who was GREAT at something talk intelligently about his talent was Ted Williams. Besides that, talent is mostly instinctual and it would be like putting the toothpaste back in the tube to try and teach it.

I believe in ELI! Go Blue!
@JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jan 26, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Isaiah Thomas and Wayne Gretzky

Great players, lousy coaches.

Bossy: In your last 50 games, you have only 10 goals.
Player: So?
Bossy: You’re about 40 short.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That is awesome

Green

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Ted Williams wasn't a "natural" like many others.

They say he worked on his swing every waking hour. He’d swing broomsticks or whatever he could get his hand on. He also studied hitters and pitchers, he was obsessive. Not a great fielder though, but he never seemed to care that much, especially since he played next to Dom Dimaggio who was considered one of the best defensive players in baseball.

My favorite Ted Williams story was: he was facing a rookie pitcher, and struck out. After the game, the pitcher brought a ball and asked Ted to sign it. Williams started yelling at him, made the guy cry, but he took the ball and signed it and walked off. Next time he faced that pitcher, he drilled a home run – really drove it deep – and as he was rounding the bases he yelled to the pitcher, “I’ll sign that one for you too – if they ever find the son of a bitch…”

by Les Beaver on Jan 26, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I like this meme

MB: You could have buried that shot.
Player: coach Bossy, the defenseman knocked me parallel to the ice!
MB: … and?

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

MB: How many Stanley Cups have you won?
Player: Um, none.
MB: No, no. I mean, how many times have you won the Stanley Cup?
Player: Right. None.
MB: I don’t understand. What’s “none Stanley Cups” mean?

by Les Beaver on Jan 26, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

OK, hold up there, guys

MB: you gotta feed your wing when he’s open like that.
Player: he wasn’t open, there was a guy on him and two on me.
MB: You used to get the puck to me like that all the time.
Player: coach, just because I wear #19 doesn’t mean I’m Bryan Trottier.
MB: Ohhhh. I wondered why you didn’t have the moustache any more.
Second Player (thinking): Thank God I stopped wearing #5 last year.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Bossy at Islanders Rookie Camp

Player: Um, coach. I don’t know if we can do that.
Bossy: What? I don’t see the problem.
Player: 53 goals? You think we can all score 53 goals as rookies.
Bossy:…

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Jan 26, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

oh coach

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

yet another

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

image fail

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

create your own

click here

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

hope this works

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jan 26, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

OT but Al Montoya was the latest guest for "Face Paint"

Here it is and it’s pretty cool

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions  

fyi

thats where Backhadn Shelf looks at goalie’s masks

islanders hockey, making a sane person go insane during finals week

by DarthDoyle on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh

freaking Ryan Hollweg named him “The Big Cubano”? Now I hate it.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jan 26, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Its the only positive contribution he ever made to the National Hockey League.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jan 26, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

So what pick are we guessing JT gets taken at? I'd say 18th overall pick in the fantasy draft.

Although I could definitely see him going 26th :-).

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions  

Definitely

Been watching Malkin’s usage there. He’s an interesting case. Pretty funny looking at “sheltered” and marginally talented JT in that any-age context.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 26, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

What's weird about Malkin

is how on earth are other teams letting him get out against their weak players so often? That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense with Crosby out for most of the year.

by afrosupreme on Jan 26, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there

Seems there must be some hiccup here. Or Bylsma is even more genius than billed, despite his inability to keep Godard from leaving the bench.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jan 27, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Then there is the story...............

of the beautifu red headedl gal hockey fan who goes into a tatoo parlor and has a famous players likeness tatooed on the inside if each thigh. To be sure she has not been cheated, before paying she steps out of the store and asks a passerby if he can identify the two wingers. He replies after a careful look, "I think that is Rod Gilbert on right wing, I’m not sure who is at left wing, but for sure that’s Lanny Macdonald at center.

by altosax on Jan 26, 2012 5:28 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I was fortunate

enough to play hockey at an early age, unfortunately as I became older my body did not cooperate with the ever growing players around me. Actually did not really hit my true height till I was 17 or so, thus making me a 12 – 14 year old that would get beat down a lot. I was not the fastest player on the ice either and much to my chagrin I did not play goalie that well either as I found out. The one thing I pulled away from playing for around 10 years or so was my appreciation for how much skill it actually takes to play the game.

I was also fortunate enough to play on team where we had guys like Gerry Hart, Mike Bossy, and Bobby Nystrom come to our year end dinners and not only sign everything in sight but usually give us the inspiration that we could all make it to the NHL and win a Cup with the Islanders. I mean these guys were folk lore to us, since we were not even born during the cup years and all we knew was they were the guys that won the cup 4 times here on Long Island.

Well hockey was not my sport, mainly do to my inability to grow like everyone else, do not fret I am not a midget and after I stopped playing hockey for a few years finally started to grow and fill in, just a late bloomer. College ended up being a better time for sports for me than high school. Anyways, being athletic to this day and still participating in some skilled sports, not a lot compares to the shear speed, intensity, and physical nature of hockey.

It is truly amazing what these guys can do with and without the puck, and it really glues me to the TV. Yes I do have a pretty good understanding about the game because I played, but I am still struck with awe on how they make it happen. I could never in a million years imagine pulling off a play like JT, with every other variable blowing up in my face. I hope they do more segments like this, because its pretty cool to understand how they as professional hockey players make it happen.

Man, there is so much good in hockey.

by ghalbart on Jan 26, 2012 7:54 PM EST reply actions   1 recs


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1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


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