Islanders 2011-12 1st Half Report Card: Undoing the 1st Quarter
The New York Islanders began the second half of 2011-12 in a better place than what they saw at the end of a pretty miserable first quarter. Through the first 21 games the Islanders were 6-11-4, struggling to manage 2.0 goals per game and suffering some poor luck and execution with a 6.9% overall shooting percentage.
As expected, their shooting luck has rebounded -- they're up to 7.9% now -- their goal production has modestly improved to 2.36 per game, and along with that the second quarter offered some belated bright spots. The record in their second 21 games was a more cosmetically pleasing 10-9-2 (including three shootout wins, the kind of coin-flip luck that eluded them in the first quarter), but nowhere near strong enough to undo the damage of October and November. Nonetheless, you might see them headed closer to 20th overall than 30th.
Excluding last night's win (which was game #42, but which completed our second 21-game segment), the Islanders' first half record was 15-20-6. Another informative snapshot is in Torgo's 10-Game Chunks IV FanPost. Below is a rough grade of each of the individuals who contributed.
Class Starlet
John Tavares: What a difference a year and a half makes. Where once John Tavares was youngster with dazzling skills but so, so much to learn at the NHL level, now he's gone from defensive liability to driver of play on just about every shift. The skating improvement over last year is nearly breath-taking. How it's freed him to create offense all over the ice and handle defensive responsibilities much better is just ... well, this is a pretty big development for the franchise going forward.
He's up to a point per game now -- including 29 even strength points among his 42 -- but his movement and persistent threat on the powerplay has also keyed that unit's climb to the top 10 in production (19.3% and 7th as of today).
With Tavares on an eight-game point streak, you should be prepared for another dry spell. But the good news is his skills and presence have been on display virtually every game, points or no points.
* * *
Class Leaders
Matt Moulson: Tavares often sets him up, but quite simply Matt Moulson usually finishes. With 20 goals through the first half (another last night gave him 21 through 42 games), he's on pace for 40 rather than 30 goals. His current 18.4% shooting percentage is likely to come back down and reduce that pace, but barring injury he should still be good for yet another 30-goal season.
Cosmetic bonus: Moulson's +8 stands out on a team that's mostly still in the minus. His team-high PDO (team shooting percentage plus save percentage while on the ice) of 1015 is surely a factor for that +/- fortune, but so is his own shooting.
P.A. Parenteau: No longer on the first line but still a class leader and collecting points. Many who recognized Parenteau's skills aspired to see him on another line not because he's "not a true first-liner," but rather because he exhibited the puck possession skills and battle level that might help out some of the other Islanders lines. Once even leading the team in scoring, Parenteau had 35 points through the first half and added another pair last night.
This is couched in his still high level of offensive zone starts, but Parenteau's Corsi REL is still a team high (11.0).
Long-term, the Islanders probably penciled in other, younger, sniper-like wingers to audition next to Tavares, so a key was to confirm the suspicion that Parenteau can indeed help the team on other lines. He's shown that so far, he's a quality winger, and re-signing the pending UFA should be a priority: The Islanders have plenty of enticing forward prospects on the way; they do not have plenty of forwards who are quality NHL players today. The long-curve development of players like Josh Bailey and Nino Niederreiter should be a loud reminder that one in hand is worth two in the bush.
Travis Hamonic: Hamonic draws by far the toughest opposition every night. He's the go-to blueliner in critical situations. His 22:17 is second only to Andrew MacDonald and Mark Streit (and unlike Streit not inflated by gobs of powerplay time). His rate of penalties taken per 60 is not alarming. He's already a key fixture, a star of sorts. He's just 21 years old.
Frans Nielsen and Michael Grabner: These two are considered together because they're a dynamic double-threat that isn't as obvious in a glance at the stat sheet. Much has been made of either slumping (and Grabner's groin injury may have been a factor), yet after 41 games they still face the toughest competition of Isles forwards and still come out ahead. Add to it their dangerous PK duties and they are critical components of this team.
You'd still like Grabner to convert more of his breakaways -- but don't lose sight of the marvel that he creates so many noticeable chances in the first place -- and you'd still like Nielsen to shoot more, but the record shows they're often busy keeping the opponent's best from getting shots and they're doing that pretty well.
Matt Martin: He could've been in the "class leaders" section last quarter, and all he's done is continue to strike that balance between physical irritant and responsible hockey player: His 10 points (5g, 5a) are a bonus, but his transformation from someone who hits everything he can reach to someone who hits everything reasonable -- without risking suspension -- has been fantastic. Multiple times he's demonstrated how he's paid attention to the line drawn by Brendan Shanahan. What's even better, this toe-ing the line, Martin's discipline, and Ben Eager's foolishness pretty much created the 4-1 win over the Oilers.
Martin's level-headedness and willingness to fight has helped the Islanders avoid wasting a lineup spot on additional brutality on most nights this season.
* * *
Victoria Jackson 'Two Stars is Pretty Good Too'
Kyle Okposo: From a disappointing first quarter and a spell in the Capuano Scratch Bin, to another turn opposite Tavares and Moulson. He's driving the net more, working the boards better, and nine of his 11 goals have come since the end of that first quarter. No matter the line and no matter the goal output, this is the level of engagement to be demanded of Okposo.
Mark Streit: It's been an off year for Streit -- who admits his return from a year-plus on the shelf has been harder than he expected -- but it's not clear how much of his difficulty has been the injury rebound, how much has been age, how much has been trying to do too much, and how much has been the blueline partners he must carry. What is clear is some of his mistakes have been completely his own doing -- whether from risky decisions or lost puck battles.
That said, Streit still has 23 points on 21 assists and he's looked better as the season has progressed. He gets the choicest offensive zone starts, so his Corsi Rel leadership (8.0) among the team's blueliners is to be expected. He's still essential and there's still hope he'll be better. All told, while more is expected, Streit's been pretty good too.
Andrew MacDonald: The third in the Islanders' trio of quality blueliners, MacDonald has also had an uneven year post-surgery (hip). Mostly playing next to Hamonic at EV and on the PK, you might hope MacDonald would collect a few more points with his 1:34 of mostly second-unit PP time.
Al Montoya and Evgeni Nabokov: Both resurrected goalie careers have been important this season, sometimes providing needed steady goaltending and sometimes creating the almost expected turmoil thanks to stints on IR. Montoya's .926 Even Strength save percentage is about top 20 among goalies with 15 or more appearances. Nabokov's .905 EV Save% is considerably worse in his 20 games. But these figures are volatile and each has kept the Islanders in games more often than not. It's not all-star goaltending, but it's dependable, which is a relief.
* * *
Drag and Slackers
Josh Bailey: It's a long time coming but Bailey has shown little steps of progress as the year has gone on. Still only 22 and never poised to have the offensive numbers some hoped for on his draft day, he just needs to become a solid call-around player. That ideally means more than the 3-8-11 he's put up so far, but you can only do so much with 14:16 per game (1:30 on the PK). He is used in a lot of defensive zone starts, which would be alright except his faceoff percentage remains a low 43.1% overall and just 43.5% at even strength. He still occasionally makes risky decisions with the puck, but his all-around game appears to be progressing. It's that faceoff weakness that sticks out.
Marty Reasoner: Except for delivering at 54% on faceoffs, Reasoner hasn't delivered as expected. His linemates have been a mixed bag (but that's what you get with the fourth line) and his usage not quite as defense-oriented as imagined. You'd like a little more offense from him, but his low PDO hints that the pendulum will swing the other way eventually. Of course now he's out with a broken hand from blocking a shot, so we'll see what the landscape is like when he returns.
Brian Rolston: Rolston is neither as awful as a lot of fans say nor as useful as the Islanders originally thought. He no longer skates like he used to and his shot simply isn't the threat it once was. A stopgap, a placeholder until better forwards are ready, he's miscast as a second-liner. That said, being bumped off the first powerplay unit has led to that unit's improvement and possibly allowed him to devote more energies to EV play, where he's been a more diligent backchecker lately. And to be fair he is among the team's Corsi REL leaders despite a variety of linemates over the first half.
Tim Wallace: Like Pandolfo (see Incompletes below), Wallace isn't a slacker by any means, he's just not good enough or mobile enough to be a meaningful player at the NHL level. Almost incredibly, he's played just one fewer games (18) than Nino so far, though all have come in this second quarter. If he keeps things simple as he did upon his first callup, he can be a fourth-line placeholder and physical presence for now.
Steve Staios: It's not fair to call Staios a "slacker" when he keeps himself in excellent shape and does all he can, but he's certainly a drag. He's just limited in mobility and ability at his age, and it leads to gobs of penalties (17 minors, just unacceptable) and probably taxes his partner. Glaring stat: Staios' penalties taken per 60 minutes (1.7) is twice the rate of any other Islanders defenseman. Staios is at best a 6/7 defenseman now, and it's only recently he's been tried in that role instead of riding next to Streit.
Milan Jurcina: Speaking of Streit, his latest partner has been Jurcina and that is much preferred in these eyes. Jurcina is inconsistent -- as he has been all his career -- but his style and ability to get his shot on goal better complements the situations Streit is used in. Jurcina has refreshingly used his body more lately -- another frequent plea throughout his career -- and hopefully the pairing with Streit excels. Jurcina is the Isles' fourth-best defenseman, so lining up next to Streit on the second pair also makes some intuitive sense.
Mark Eaton: Eaton is Eaton. He tries to play a simple positional game that doesn't involve much risk with the body or the puck. (To be fair, he does block about two shots per game like his colleagues.) That screams "third pair" which is where he's been used (as well as on the PK) when healthy. He has the lowest Corsi Rel on the blueline, but that's in part because he's the only one used in almost exclusively defensive situations where shots for are much less likely. The KISS approach is probably right for his abilities, but that doesn't change the effect: One more defenseman who has trouble moving the puck forward once possession is gained.
* * *
Incompletes
The Injured Scapegoats: Last quarter we listed Mike Mottau and Rick DiPietro under the Failures category, and odds are that would be the case here too if they hadn't been hurt (or scratched, then hurt) for most of the second quarter. Nothing more to add to their report that wasn't said last time.
Nino Niederreiter and David Ullstrom: Nino's added 16 games since the first quarter, Ullstrom's added 10 more of his own, but both have had injury interruptions that make their first half and expected contributions for the second half murky. Both are projects of different variety. Ullstrom's little glimpse of offense upon his callup and his nice pace in the AHL are promising. After returning from the concussion he was reassigned to Bridgeport, but the bet here is he'll be back up soon.
Niederreiter is tough to quantify as he interns on the fourth line, but little glimpses here and there show a 19-year-old who is starting to pick up the defensive demands of the NHL game and starting to find the confidence with the puck that he'll need to be a factor at the NHL level. He's been a defensive liability in a healthy proportion of his appearances, but the Isles have obviously decided to put up with that as they try to coach him along. It will be informative to see where his curve is at by April, assuming no further injuries get in the way.
Jay Pandolfo: Pandolfo has not in any way been a slacker and in fact he's just done his fourth-line and PK duty as asked -- his O-zone start is an extremely low (for this team) 41.3%, which tells you how specialized his role is. But it's not sexy and fans would prefer a glimpse at a shiny prospect (even though Pandolfo consumes less than 10 EV minutes per night) than a former Devil. The problem is he and Reasoner are not as good at PK as Grabner and Nielsen (of course) and maybe not as good as Bailey or even Martin.
Another stopgap, he'll keep the spot warm while the prospects get more minutes in the AHL. Pandolfo was out with a broken foot for most of the second quarter so he gets an incomplete on this card, but his role and expectation is same as it ever was.
* * *
Summary
The first line is outstanding, the top defensive pair is pretty strong; it's filling in below that where the Islanders still suffer. (On that note, people will look to Bridgeport's current seven-game win streak as a glimmer.)
The Islanders could use more secondary scoring of course, and it's an open debate how much of that falls on the blueline's difficulty moving the puck out with speed and how much falls on the inadequacies of the bottom six or even bottom nine. (There is also room for general systems debate here, although you're getting into vague terms and coaching and lineup discussions that have so many variables that change each week.)
The team still scores at just a .76 ratio of 5-on-5 GF/GA, but for the first time in quite a while they're actually putting on as many shots (30.0) as they give up (29.9). The 7th-ranked PP (19.3%) and 10th-ranked PK (83.3%) have helped mitigate other deficiencies -- but we're still talking about a team that is 25th overall by points percentage and in a bubble of teams between 17th and 25th (currently 21st, at 48.90) in terms of Fenwick Close (even strength possession with the score tied or close).
People said the team wasn't as bad as its first quarter results and that may yet prove to be true. A bottom third league finish is still almost assured, but don't be surprised -- especially if you're fancy wanders to the top of the draft -- if it's closer to the low 20s than to 30th overall.
Note: Don't forget, the Islanders resume play in a matinee Monday, 1 p.m. EST start against the Predators.
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I'm calling it now...
The Islanders have found themselves just in time this year… They will squeak into the eighth spot and make the playoffs….
o’ and Martin, he’s quickly becoming my favorite player! Go Isles!
I think Nielsen and Grabner need to have their own character
in between Class Leaders and Victorias So-So Bunch. Bc neither player has really built on last season and I may even venture to say they’ve regressed a tad. Nothing like what happened to Blake Comeau or Josh Bailey, but as of last week I much would’ve rather had last years Nielsen and Grabner than this years version.
With that said, both seem to be coming on lately and I look for a big second half from both. They’ll earn their way into the class you have them in now by the end of the season.
The New York Islanders: saving their best for the wrong conference since '05
I don't agree with Parenteau
Although his offensive side is good, he makes too many mistakes. In comparing him to other forwards, who are not fighters, he has almost double the amount of penalty minutes than the next forward. Some of those penalties come when we were on the power play. IMHO, when he doesn’t have to think and just plays, Parenteau is great. However, if you see him on the power play or working slowly with the puck up in the neutral zone and he is looking for someone to pass to, is where he usually coughs up the puck, either by letting the opponent get to him or trying a pass that is easily readable. This is usually where Parenteau gets a penalty, because he is trying to make up for his mistake. Double the penalty minutes than any other non-fighting forward is not good. If he is that good on offense, than we need him to stay out of the sin bin.
i agree here with Parenteau....
I like him because he brings an element to the team that most others on the isles dont have. He has good vision, puck control and passing skills. They arent great, but they are better than most on the team. PA was a huge benefactor of playing with Tavares, as is any other guy who gets put on his line. It doesnt surprise me at all that Okposo is now scoring at a point per game clip on that line. Aside from PP time, Parenteau hasnt been effective in making any of the other 3 lines click or produce. I also feel that if you took Moulson off Tavares’ line he would not hit 30 goals. (as an Islander). I dont think moulson is a huge talent, but if your going to pop in 30+ every year (maybe even a 40) im not going to complain about what line your on. However, I still feel Tavares will need better players to play with in the future to maximize his potential. Eventually, either Moulson or Okposo will have to be replaced on that line with someone who is better.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 15, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
26 of Parenteau's 37 points have been at even strength
He’s not just a PP guy.
Of course Tavares helps immensely — especially this year — but both PA and especially Moulson put up points even when they couldn’t count on Tavares to carry the load every night. (Many forget just how weak Tavares was for much of his rookie year.)
Agree with dksec that Parenteau’s weaknesses are turnovers and the occasional undisciplined penalty, but only to a mild degree. But he’s still better than most Islanders forwards and should be retained.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Jan 16, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Wasnt trying to call him just a PP guy......
but after taking a look at the numbers…. In the 8 games PA has played off of Tavares line he has 8 points. 4 of those points were scored on the PP. His other 4 points are 4 even strength assists. 2 of which were scored on empty net goals and one was a Tavares goal. So it all depends on how you want to look at things. You can say, hey hes still scoring at a ppg clip on a different line or you can say PA has virtually only contributed 2 even strength assists since being taken off that line and one of those came off a Tavares goal with the extra man. This is why judging players on numbers can be misleading.
I agree fully with both you and dksec assesment of his weaknesses and i do feel hes better than most isles forwards, but i just feel he garners too much praise at times where if you were to put another player in his spot with his minutes and allow them to make the mistakes he makes we would be looking at a player who would be putting up similar or better numbers than PA (ie: Okposo).
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I don't see that production away from JT as a knock on him
This team doesn’t score much and relies mostly on JT and his line for scoring. So I don’t expect him to be anywhere near as productive on another line, but I do expect him to be more productive than their alternatives.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Jan 16, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
also
Not that it’s the most meaningful stat, but Parenteau actually is trailing only Henrik Sedin league-wide in first assists per 60 at EV.
by BenHasna on Jan 16, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I am so impressed with Tavares.....
that i think islander fans have seen the last of his dry spells. He has become dominant. And he is dominant in may facets of the game. His skating has turned from poor to good. He didnt work on his poor skating for it not to be a liability for him. It is now an asset of his. He is relentess on the forecheck and one of the best stick checkers i’ve seen. His defensive awareness and commitment is second to nobody. Now he’s starting to get involved with sticking up for his teammates. Apparently, there isnt anything this kid cant do or accomplish. He’s a different player now from when he was even on opening night this season. He creates with whoever is on his line so i will predict that John Tavares will not go more than 4 straight games for the rest of the year without a point and should wind up with 78+ points.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 15, 2012 10:20 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Me too
The one thing I really like about him is that he seems to show the same qualities a guy like Jeter does…your best player also being your most dedicated and hardest worker.
That may prove yet to be his best attribute.
agree 100%...
I think thats what sets Tavares aside from others. His desire. Thats why the sky is really the limit for him.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I still belive in Bailey...
His point totals are dismal, but who has he played with all year? Josh Bailey is a creative pass 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, maybe shoot 4th kinda guy. He is defensively responsible and has picked up the physical part of his game a little. I believe the bottom line with Bailey is that if he isnt playing with a sniper on his line then we will never see what he is capable of. And no im sorry, but Michael Grabner is not a sniper. Bailey should be used on the PP over Frans. Give Josh Bailey 2nd line minutes with someone who can shoot the puck and another guy to make a little room out there for him and you will have a 50+ point producer who is defensively responsible. I honestly do not feel this is out of reach at all for Josh. The kid has tons of talent and is still only 22 yrs old.
That window though is closing
In the ranking above, its interesting to note that both of his current wingers (Martin and Grabner) are ranked ABOVE Bailey. So who is dragging who down? One could just as easily conclude “what could these two wings do if they had a good center?” Or at least a center ranked in the same category.
And as far as tons of talent, where have you seen that? He has proved so far only marginal talent.
its interesting to note that both of his current wingers (Martin and Grabner) are ranked ABOVE Bailey.
True, but how much better has he looked the past two weeks? To me it’s been almost night and day. Not to mention Grabner has reemerged during the same stretch…
by afrosupreme on Jan 16, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are right about better
He has looked better. And I don’t want to dump him. There are occasions (once or twice a game) where he shows something.
But all in all, that is not much.
I just think that window is closing.
We really could use him to be that player we all thought he would be when he was drafted.
good points....
What sucks about Bailey is that he is 22 years old (well thats actually good), but from an Isles standpoint hes now in his 4th year. I dont want to beat a dead horse about Bailey’s mishandled development, but afro makes a great point that aside from numbers, you can see a major difference in the way Bailey has been playing lately. Points wont always come right away. He got stoned by Enroth the other night too on a great play he made.
Baileys window should just be starting to be opened, not on its way down being shut. Playing Bailey on 3rd and 4th lines with unproven and journeymen players will never relate to success in his production. Factor in the zero PP time he received for most of the year and your not going to get much. Lately, his play has looked to improve a lot. The Isles seem to be leaning on giving him a little more minutes and responsibility so lets see what happens. Trust me, the talent is there. Some of the things Bailey does is pretty special and hes only 22. Hes been here for a while, but hes only 22 years old. If we give up on him another team will be lucky.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Dont think Staios deserves to be called a "drag".....
Maybe Garth Snow’s offseason strategy can be called a drag, but Staios has been a competitor all year. He didnt ask to be placed on a top d pairing. Of course if you put a 38 year old training camp invitee on a top D pairing in todays NHL he will get exposed. Staios on a 3rd D pairing would be very valuable to any team.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 15, 2012 10:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He hasn't been on the top pair though
He’s been asked to play on the second pair with Streit (Streit gets the most blueline points, but that is not their number one pairing), and while he’s been a gamer, that’s still asking too much from him at this stage.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
agreed....
we dont really have anyone else to put there though or they will be exposed as well lol
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's the problem
And why I don’t mean to rip his effort by putting him in “drag.”
The situation they’ve put themselves in means someone’s probably going to make Streit’s life harder, and then the third pair is going to make them completely vulnerable.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Rolston is as awful as anyone wants to call him lol...
Seriously though, the guy is on pace for 16 points and has been given valuable minutes and PP time. 4th line tough guys can put up those kind of numbers. Brian Rolston brings absolutely nothing to this team and is just a piece of dead weight.
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 15, 2012 10:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Again
He’s far from ideal and isn’t putting up points. But his underlying numbers indicate he’s not dead weight either. (I’m glad he’s not first-choice on the first PP unit anymore.)
I’m pretty sure most wouldn’t enjoy the resulting team performance if he were swapped for a fourth-line tough guy, except the salary and history and annoying tics would be gone, and some other lightning rod for the team’s ills would be found.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
this is one where i just have to completely disagree....
I never said we’d be better off with a 4th line tough guy instead, i was just comparing production. I watch Rolston, i just see absolutely nothing. I think he had his best game in Buffalo the other night only b/c his legs seemed to be much lighter. I think you can put Rolston in the same category as Staios, but Rolston has not shown the same compete level or headiness that Staios has shown. Rolston is simply too slow to make anything happen. He doesnt compete much and hit shot has been unaffective and ill advised most times it has been used. Couldnt Garth have thrown 5 mil at a free agent for a one year deal?
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
You would hope so
I mean I agred that money is better spent elsewhere, and they probably overrated him, and his foot-speed slows things down. But I see him doing smart things that I think people don’t notice because they’re minor or because, sincerely, he’s a good lightning rod for our frustrations.
Based on the timeline last summer (late July) I do think Snow felt his productive options for that $5M were diminishing. And I also don’t think getting rid of the Hunter commitment/risk (slow player coming off another knee surgery) can be dismissed.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
yea i was going to mention the point of hunters contract off the books......
so if you want to figure we’d have the 2.5 mil difference of the contracts to spend on a FA. We wouldnt have gotten sh!t
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ha
We could’ve gotten Steve Staios twice with that!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
This.....
… is an impressive piece of work. Well done, Dom.
I find it hard to argue with very much of it. I am curious to see what become of Parenteau. I do agree that it appears that Snow will have a full picture of what he is worth to the Isles going forward, since he will not be in any way artificially pumped up by 1st line time with JT and MM. I also see him as having some real value going forward. The Isles youngsters will not be 100% ready to take over that role next season, although they will be knocking at the door.
The problem, as I see it, is that his value will also be there for every other team in the League to see as well. Will that inflate his contract demands beyond what can reasonably be offered by the brain trust. I am not sure PAP will be a long term part of Teh Core, once Strome, Nino and some of the others gain real traction. On the other hand, it is safe to say that, at $1.25M, he is significantly underpaid right now and a real raise in salary is forthcoming, either here or elsewhere. How much of a raise he will be seeking and for how long a term, are interesting questions in how Garth plays the next stage of the rebuild.
The next question is how much of a raise Garth will offer Frans and for how long. Frans is, imo, a very real and vital part of Teh Core and he cannot be allowed to get away.
Both of these are concerns as we look for that rumoured UFA Dman who will solve all our problems.
Finally, the question needs to be asked about what we will have for next season and beyond as “valuable experienced veteran” presence. I know we’ve bemoaned the signing of the Devils’ elders this season, but, really, once they’re gone, what do we have? Streit and Reasoner, and only one of THOSE has ever played on a real winner.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jan 16, 2012 8:16 AM EST reply actions
These are the big questions over the next month
since you hope Garth can take care of it before the trade deadline passes. I’d rather know these guys are here to stay, rather than have to worry about them leaving if they aren’t moved.
I’d hope that we could lock up both PAP and Frans for a total of between 5-5.5 million per year. PAP’s high point totals might make that tough, and push the total closer to 6. I’d have figured on something like 2.75 for Frans and 2.25 for PAP, but with KO at 2.8 PAP might require 2.5 or more.
I don’t think Frans will land the Joel Ward 3 million range, most importantly because he’s not going to have a big playoff run and the hype machine associated with that. I think we can lock him up for 4 years or so for around 2.75.
I really am starting to like the Frans/PAP combo. I think he can actually help Frans find some more offense (and given his play on the PP recently, I really do think it’s there), but also, despite his size, brings a good physical presence that could be very useful on a good two-way line. You hope the line slides “down” the depth chart over the next couple of years, but these are the kind of useful and (hopefully) cheap players that every team hopes to fill out a roster with.
Either way, nothing rings more true than:
The long-curve development of players like Josh Bailey and Nino Niederreiter should be a loud reminder that one in hand is worth two in the bush.
Hope they’re in hand sooner than later!
by afrosupreme on Jan 16, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
From your keyboard fingers to Garth's eyes...
At least I hope.
only thing we have to look at here is....
By signing these guys and having possibly Strome coming in. We are going to virtually have the same exact forward corps again next season which is currently the 3rd worst in the league. While i like these players, to take a line out of Garth’s book, “I think we should explore all options”
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
The Top 6 forwards are not the problem -- the second six and the D are
Tavares
Okposo
Grabner
Moulson
Niederreiter
… are fixtures.
Parenteau
Nielsen
… are necessities, imo.
Bailey
Ullstrom
Martin
.. are not, but will probably be on the team.
That’s 11. History suggests that Ryan Strome will be here next season, whether we here on this board like it or not. I don’t think he can play in the “A” next year. Cizikas, Rahkshani and Reasoner are likely serious contenders. Petrov (hopefully) and Kabanov are possibilities. That’s a lot of players contending for not a lot of room on the roster.
We’ll see if Garth looks to package some of these chips for a serious upgrade.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jan 16, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Reasoner
No matter how we feel about him, he’s under contract for next year (I think you may have meant to include him in the third group, since you only named 10 players, but counted 11 at the end). Even with Reasoner, that still leaves one slot, which could be Strome (and, as you say, that seems likely given how the Isles have handled younger players recently), or any of the other AHLers.
Now, sure, if Garth can land a major blueline upgrade, it would probably be worth moving some of those assets. But I will say that there would be a good argument in keeping most of them, and continuing to build the base up at Bridgeport. While there seems to be a surplus, how many of those guys perform at the pro-level still needs a little more time to shake out.
by afrosupreme on Jan 16, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree on some levels...
Certainy PA is valuable to this team right now. I wouldnt call him a necessity unless he’s being replaced by some uproven project player or an over the hill vet. Im not saying he should be left for dead, but you would have to think that PA would be one of the 1st to go when the Isles do upgrade. Maybe you can say im hoping for an upgrade.
I would disagree with the statement that the top 6 forwards are not the problem. I’d say the top line is not the problem. The Isles are getting little to no scoring from their other 3 lines. So there has to be a problem somewhere there. The top 6 needs someone new. I’d say Okposo, Tavares, Moulson and Grabner are ok. Somewhere in there, PA or Frans need to be upgraded. PA is fine, but i dont think we’re going to sign a 2nd line center in FA. Nielsen is ok, but doesnt produce enough for a 2nd line center. Unless Bailey blows the doors off at training camp i dont see the Isles giving him those minutes so somethings gotta give.
I would def include Martin as a nesessity also. He provides an aspect of the game that no other player on the team does and he does it very well and is also getting better by the game.
The D obv needs a major overhaul
by LaFontaine16 on Jan 16, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Agree with Nova here
The top six generally are just fine (and of course you dream of a breakout prospect emerging and pushing one of them down to top nine). It’s the other parts that need figuring out.
That’s where I think PAP and Nielsen resigning is so important — and still explore all additional options. If you find upgrades over them afterward, suddenly you have the luxury better teams have. (All this said, I think blueline upgrades is every bit as important if not more so.)
Since this team has so much trouble adding talent freely (save for the Moulson/PAP opportunity finds), I don’t think they can afford to let quality players walk as UFAs.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

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