Happy New Year: Islanders 2012 To-Do List
by John from ATL on Jan 1, 2012 11:52 AM EST
Email
PrintEditor's Note: Mark's weekly prospect update is in the Sunday a.m. thread. Here's a fun FanPost look forward at 2012 by John from ATL.
Most of the time when the year ends there are many stories looking back over the year giving best of lists or whatever. Being an Islander fan it's a lot easier just to look forward. I am of the belief that the Islanders are in year four of a five-year rebuild that should come to an end in the months after the 2012-13 season.
We can argue about what a completed rebuild means and if it is successful, but I don't think it's time to start that discussion. I thought I would give a list for the Islanders going forward.
A to-do list for Garth for calander year 2012:
1) UFAs currently on the roster: Should they be resigned?: (Frans Neilsen; P.A. Parenteau; Milan Jurcina; Dylan Reese, Al Montoya). The question here is for how long and for how much? I wouldn't sign anyone for more than three and would prefer two year deals but, would PA and Frans accept that? I would also like to see Frans and PA signed before the trade deadline. Garth should know by then if he can sign them for reasonable money and term. If not maybe a trade would be in order; But I'd like to see both of them back for next year at least.
Should Jurcina be resigned and if so would he accept another one year deal? Will Reese accept another one year two way deal? Can he get a better deal somewhere else? What type of deal should be offered to Montoya and would other clubs be interested in him?
2) The trade deadline: Can Brian Rolston, Marty Reasoner, Steve Staois, Evgeni Nabokov, Mark Eaton or Mike Mottau be traded? If so, can Garth get anything more than a 4th round pick? Nabokov is the real question here. It is clear the Isles need him for now, with Montoya out and that other goalie always injured. So, can the Isles afford to trade Nabokov? Snow needs to start thinking about who's the goalie for next year and who's the backup because "what's his name" can't even be counted on to be the #2.
3) ELCs: Garth needs to determine if Brock Nelson and Andres Lee intend to return to college next year, If not he needs to get them signed and playing in Bridgeport. He also needs to get Kirill Petrov signed and in North America for training camp. From what I've read Brenden Kichton also looks to turn pro. Along with Kirill Kabanov this could be five players to add to training camp and probable a big boost to next years Sound Tigers team.
4) RFAs: (Mark Katic; Matt Martin; Micheal Haley) The Isles should look to sign all three. I would think it's a good time to lock up Matt Martin for at least three years and cover some of his arbitration years. Katic sounds like he'll be healthy and back before this seasons up. His return would be the additional defensive depth the team will need next year once Staois, Eaton and Mottau are all gone (We hope).
5) The draft: Sad to say but even with the victories over Calgary and Edmonton it looks like another high draft pick. Way to early to predict where the Isles will pick but, it may be somewhere between 3rd and 8th. If they're not making the playoffs it would be nice to add (Yakupov; Grigorenko; Forsberg; Murray; Dumba; Trouba; Reilly; Galchenyuk or ?) Whoever it is it should be a good player. At this point, if the Isles pick somewhere 4 to 7; I would think Yakupov, Grigorenko and Forsberg would be off the board and the Isles should select a defenseman.
6) UFA: Ryan Suter!; Suter!; Suter!. Garth, say it with me, that's Ryan Suter. Overpay in $ and term. Well, it won't happen but its nice to think about. Garth needs to make something happen here and bring in a legitimate defenseman. I fear this will fail again and there will be another Steve Staois training camp invitee. This is where Garth needs to roll up his sleeves and figure out the Isles top six defenseman going into training camp. Streit, Hamonic, MacDonald, ?; ? and ?. Is deHaan ready? Is there a Dman other than Suter willing to come to Long Island and help out the kids? Garth may also need to look for a goalie; if Montoya can't be signed.
7) Rookie Camp: Come see the Isles new toys from the 2012 draft. Will Petrov be signed and here? Does Strome look ready for more? Is it clear that the teams first round pick is not ready and needs to return to Jrs or college? From what I've read Forsberg and Ryan Murray are the most NHL ready. Murray is only 2 months younger than Strome.
8) 2012 Training Camp: Garth confirmed camp will again be held on Long Island, which is good news. Hopefully, Strome Kabanov, Petrov, Lee, Nelson, de Haan and Poulin look good and make the present roster guys nervous about their job security. Will P.A. Parenteau be back or will another team be willing to offer more money or more years than Garth? Is Strome ready and if so, who are the Isles four centers? Can Isles waive or trade Reasoner? Does Strome play wing? Is Nino ready for another try on the top line with JT and Moulson? Who are the Isles two goalies going into next season? Is Montoya back? Should the Isles put that old, injuried goalie through waivers and play him in Bridgeport until he can prove he can stay healthy and have a save % over .900 and GA under 3.00? Can the Isles reach the salary cap floor without Rolston?
Should be an interesting 2012. Go Isles!!!! Happy New Year.
Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.
59 comments
|
Add comment
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Uhhh are you crazy on Frans?
“1) UFAs currently on the roster: Should they be resigned?: (Frans Neilsen; P.A. Parenteau; Milan Jurcina; Dylan Reese, Al Montoya). The question here is for how long and for how much? I wouldn’t sign anyone for more than three and would prefer two year deals but, would PA and Frans accept that? "
Frans is having a typically great defensive season and will get a big raise in the open market. Sign him to a four or five year deal easy. Seriously, there’s little downside there and he’s a huge boon to a team.
PAP is more expendable, obviously. But Frans is way more valuable than him.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Completely Disagree - PAP is More Valuable than Frans
Sorry, but IMHO, I’d look to sign PAP to a multi-year deal similar to Moulson’s contract. Frans is a good player, but we have lots of centers coming. Bailey is capable of taking over that 3rd line role.
There is a very good argument that Frans Nielsen may be the 2nd best defensive forward in ALL of the NHL.
We do not have anyone even close to Frans.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Does Frans Score Enough?
Frans will be 28 in April 2012. He seems to max out at 40-45 points, with very good defensive presence but no physical element whatever. If you have centers named Tavares and Strome on your team is Frans your third-line center? Could be, maybe not. Also depends on where they expect to fit in Cizikas, Nelson, Sundstrom, Lee (I think he’ll be a winger).
PAP’s real character who has shown he can really set guys up and put up 50-60 points. I do not think he’s more expendable.
Frans is in his pime.
Frans is great, but he is what he is and don’t see him doing much more than he’s done over the last two years. Who will likely be the Isles centers of the future? When will Cizikas, Nelson, Strome be ready? Will Bailey ever turn into that 2nd/3rd line center we hoped he would? Until these questions are answered, I would think the Isles need Frans around to hold down the fort. But, you would think in three years the above questions would have been answered and Tavares, Strome, Nelson, Cizikas and Bailey in some combination would be the centers. Frans will be 31 by then and if they still need him they could resign him again.
by John from ATL on Jan 1, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
He's done a TON over the last two years.
You’re correct, he’s definitely past his peak age. This is the worry. But he’s incredibly valuable as he is now and non of Cizikas, Bailey, or Nelson can be counted on to replace that any time soon (Strome’s a question mark, but well…who knows).
Frans WILL get a 4 year deal from someone this season. The question is who. It SHOULD be the Isles.
(I mean listen, ideally you’d want to sign everyone to one year deals if you could keep doing it. But it can’t be done.)
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Fans is not PAST his peak age, he is IN it.
A huge mistake that people make is thinking of a “peak” in a career. Reality doesnt work like that. Guys hit their peak and stay there for seasons- its normally a plateau, not this imagined one-day pointed upside-down V looking spot on a graph.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 1, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Again TMC?
My point essentially is this…whatever contract you sign Frans too, the odds suggest that by the last two years (or one or two years, depending upon how long it is), he’ll be somewhat on a decline.
Now, he’s so good defensively that perhaps the decline won’t hurt much. And you’re paying for the good years with the bad. But that’s a risk of the contract.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Yeah- "again".
Its a point worth making that this kind of oversimplification doesnt really display itself in reality the way its being painted out to.
But I know you believe it no matter what… in your mind, human beings rigidly follow this mathematical formula you are absolutely married to- and when people believe in something that strongly, theres no telling them otherwise. Just consider that Im talking to other people who are simply reading this and forming their opinions- not to you per se, since your opinion on this one is already cast in stone.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 1, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I never said rigidly.
But you do agree that if you sign Frans to a 4 year deal, odds are good he’ll be worse at the end of the deal than the beginning?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
I’d take a “declining” Frans in 2015 if it means I’d have him from 12-14.
Besides, even if he loses a step, these sort of massive declines aren’t as noticeable when it comes to his style of play. When Grabner hits his mid-thirties I can see this style of logic, but a defensive forward? If his production goes down from 50 point seasons to 30, it’s not a game breaker for me.
by TA on Jan 1, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
It also depends on what he signs for
A decline in production and/or move to the fourth line is more palatable if Frans is earning $1 million; not so great if he’s earning $2 mil +.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
The only thing I worry about with the declining Frans
Is how dependent his game is on good skating, and how light his frame is. But you could say that about a lot of guys, I guess.
Plus, there’s always…the shootout. (Sadly, I think “always” is true.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9AajQn7b18
"We owe him a lot more than he owes us at this point. He's been stellar all year. He still gave us a chance to win this one, and we've got to find a way."
—C Josh Bailey, on G Al Montoya after a 5-3 loss Tuesday in Montreal.
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jan 1, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Expendable is the wrong word - simply he's a position of strength for us right now (Talented Wingers). Frans - not even close.
Once again, Frans is someone who EVERY team will want – (see here: http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1093 – and by the way, he’s on pace to meet this criteria AGAIN this season). Only ONE defensive forward has managed to satisfy this criteria – okay point production at even strength and good possession numbers while facing top competition and starting a good deal more shifts in the defensive zone than offensive zone for three years – Manny Malhotra. Frans is likely to become the 2nd after this year (there are only 4 other guys besides Frans who have done it twice!).
We have a ton of wing prospects….Nino, Kabanov, Petrov, to name 3 who’ll be available next year – and Strome in theory could be moved to wing, plus the other guys we have in the AHL. Odds are quite good one of them will perform better than Parenteau, and they’re younger, under our control for longer, and cheaper.
And this ignores Frans’ shootout value.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Re-sign both
Don’t think Bailey is ready for that Nielsen role at all. Bailey may be on his way, but it’s way too early and Nielsen for his role is still frankly one of the best in the league.
Unless Nielsen or Parenteau is looking for a killer payday, they need to re-sign both and let the prospects earn the chance to replace them. They represent established, good talent that will only help the team more if a kid on an ELC actually wins their current role.
Even Jurcina I’d consider re-signing — but with the mind that he is a 6 or 7, rather than a top 4 who joins some Mottau in keeping the kids from getting their shot. I’m fine with “veteran depth,” I’m just not fine with the hesitance to tell said depth, “you’ve been replaced” when they become surplus.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Here's the dilema
If Frans refuses to sign a contract before the deadline because he wants to see what his value is on the open market, do you trade him? The Islanders can afford to outbid everyone for Frans if we want to in the summer but will we? More likely, we have to see if he’ll buy into the wage structure of the Isles like the other guys have. The problem is that Frans has been under paid for years while guys like Moulson and Grabner were signing their first major contracts.
If Nielsen decides he isn’t willing to buy into that same structure I think you have to trade him. He’s immensely valuable to a playoff team looking to make a run for a few reasons: this team gets the inside edge for his services in the summer, he has a very low wage so teams can fit him under the cap, he provides strong defense in the playoffs when it’s most important, it allow teams to play their top guys in offensive zones for the playoffs. We could potentially leverage a great pool of prospects and picks for these reasons. Nielsen most likely won’t be valuable when this team hits their peak in 3 years so if it comes time for the trade deadline and the deal isn’t done I hope Snow makes the tough decision to say goodbye to Frans.
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Spot on Arsenal...Can I call you Arse for short? ;) (Sorry, couldn't resist)
I sure hope he buys in and signs up for a few more years, same with PAP, but I can’t blame them if they don’t. They are running out of chances to cash in on their skills, and they need to take care of themselves while they can. If it comes to it, I hope Snow can bring in a haul of goodies for either of these guys. But I would much rather see them signed up asap.
by CloseCallJiggs on Jan 1, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
sure why not?
Most popular Arsenal blog is called Arseblog
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Agreed. And with Nielsen's salary, just about any cap strapped team can add him this year without moving around salary.
Can you imagine Nielsen being added at C to any of the “top teams”, they’d automatically be thrown into the cup favorite with a nielsen addittion. And just add Nielsen to any borderline/lower playoff team like say, Blues/Predators into a real playoff team with a good shot at the cup. Adding a player of Nielsen’s caliber at C is a tremendous upgrade, I’d say it’s very similar to adding a 70pts playmaking center to your team, that’s the type of impact Nielsen can have on a team, and that’s the impact a lot of us don’t realize.
If we can’t resign him by the trade deadline, we better as hell move him for a 1st roudner or more.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
If there's anything you could say about Frans is
that he’s a very humble guy. He knows what it meant years back that Islanders gave him the chance of playing in the NHL as the first Dane ever (I know there was another “Dane” but in reality he was Canadian)
I’m positive that he’ll get a 3-4 year deal worth 1.2-1.5 … maybe 1.75 mill a year and eventually (if not already next season) become a steady figure on the third line.
I think Frans still has a 2-3 years on his top level … some guys just peak later than others and even after his peak he’s still a valuable special teams player
Problem is, Nielsen's market value is around $3-$4mil/yr, and this is the time he "needs" to get paid to secure himself financially for life.
Nielsen’s barely made over ~$2mil im his whole nhl career. The man needs to be smart for his future, and taking a paycut to play for a crappy(how we are looked at) nhl team that won’t see a real cup run for years shouldn’t be in his plans at all. Hopefully Garth offers him a respectable deal, because Nielsen really shouldn’t be sort changed. He’s a player that already took a “pay cut”, he’s a wanted commodity, a player that will be loved anywhere he goes by people that know the game. Nielsen deserves a 3-5yr deal at $3-$4mil/yr and he’ll get it. If Joel Ward can get 3mil/yr as a checking winger, nielsen can get close to 4mil/yr from somebody on the open market in dire need of a center like him I’d think. I hope we resign him, because no center is close to filling in what he brings all around at C. Strome shouldn’t be that impactful for at least a few yrs if he ever becomes that impactful, Bailey still looks sub-par as a 3rd line center and average at best so far, and everyone else is years away from nhl ready. Cizikas is likely a 3rd line center at best too, as with ullstrom. Extend him before the trade deadline or send him on his cup run so we don’t lose him for nothing in the offseason, which would be a huge mistake asset management wise imo.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
he’s a wanted commodity, a player that will be loved anywhere he goes by people that know the game.
THEY CAN’T HAVE HIM HE’S MIN-…uhm…OURS! HE’S OURS!!! GET AWAY FROM HIM, YOU WHORE!
by Les Beaver on Jan 6, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish we could keep him and have him keep this play up for another 5yrs @ $3mil/yr, but if we can't extend him before the deadline the smart thing would be to move him.
An asset like him you just don’t let get to UFA, he could get us a very nice return from a playoff team if need be, and we’d be stupid not to do it if he isn’t resigned before March.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
On re-signing
If Nielsen decides he isn’t willing to buy into that same structure I think you have to trade him.
Sorry, yeah I assumed this was a given in the whole discussion. There is no reason to keep a valuable pending UFA this season if he can’t be re-signed ahead of time.
I love Frans, but you’re damn right I’d trade him if he won’t sign. That said, I think he should be signable.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Why is Frans so much more valuable than Paps?
I’m not disagreeing with you..
Great post JohnATL.
I’ll respond throughly when I have the time later.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Imo:
1:
-Nielsen:resign or trade by deadline
-PAP:resign or trade by deadline
-Montoya:extend before deadline, with a concussion on his record I don’t know if he will be wanted or able to boost his trade value back up before the deadline(not to mention, we are very barren here)
-Jurcina:resign cheap as a big physical 6/7 d-man
-Reese:let walk
2:
-Reasoner/Rolston/Staios/Mottau/Reasoner/Eaton will all bring back nothing or 7th rounders “if” people want them which is highly unlikely. All have played like bottom pair d-men or bottom line forwards(for the most part) and those are cheap to not in need by playoff teams.
-Nabokov’s resurgance has likely made him able to be traded for some decent value if he can stay healthy and close to maintain his .919. A 3rd rounder is possible imo, and likely will be the asking price and receiving price for us eventually by a team needing a starter or goalie depth for the playoffs/regular season.
3:
-I think most to all of those prospects are ahl bound or back to college. Petrov might make it here, but he might go back to russia again. I wouldn’t expect any training camp surprises next year of them making the team. Ullstrom/Cizikas and probably even Dibo should all be ahead of those guys on the depth chart, not to mention we need room for Nino and likely Strome somewhere next year too. Expect them sneaking into bottom 6 or higher(Nino and maybe strome but not likely imo) roles over the “juniors/college” players.
4:
-Resign Katic and Haley to low/near-minimum salary contracts, and resign Martin to what he’s earned.
5:
-The draft really doesn’t look great to me. Too many average sized puckmoving d-men in the top and not a lot of hi-talent forwards. We are full of average sized puck moving d-men, and have 2 hi-end ones right now:Donovan/DeHaan, and some “lower” potentialed ones: Katic/wishart/ness. For the love of God, lol, no more averaged sized puckmoving d-men, only elite looking ones, and even then our future top 4 d-men size/physicality is looking hazy unless Mayfield pays off big. Galchenyuk is out with a major knee injury that could derail his career and that should stop us from drafting him top 10 until he thoroughly proves otherwise, Forsberg is a question but I hear a less nhl ready and thinner Landeskog (not great, but not bad. More of an all around player then an elite offensive or defensive talent). Dumba is 2-way d-man that is average-sized but phaneuf-esque(very physical, huge shot, PP QB, and defensively responsible), a nice all around package there. Lastly, Yakupov and Grigorenko are elite offensive F/C talents. I really am not in love with anything beyond Yakupov/Grigorenko/Dumba, and Forsberg is a decent consolation prize given his “completeness” as a F. Beyond that though, it’s not pretty, especially if you are sick of average sized puckmoving d-men that aren’t elite and averagish talented forwards. If we suck and don’t get a top 4 overall pick this year, I won’t be happy. We really need 1 of Yakupov/Grigorenko/Dumba/Forsberg if we wanna speed up our rebuild through the draft.
6:
-Plan 1 and pretty much only plan should be RYAN SUTER. If we could lock him down for 4-6yrs, even at a king’s ransom, he would change this franchise on D. A player of his caliber, able to face top pair d-competition while being extremely reliable defensive and able to rack up 40pts a year, is an extremely rare gamechanging breed. He can do just about everything, run a top SH d-pairing, run a top PP point, log 25mins(or 27min/gm if your the preds) a game while facing incredibly tough 5-on-5 competition, etc. I don’t like saying spend as much as possible, but giving suter 7mil/yr(even possibly 8mil/yr) would be a smart decision.
-After Suter, step “2” in FA I’d say is d-depth if Suter falls through. You’d expect barring a trade that Hamonic/A-mac/Streit fill-in the top 3 with dreamboat suter, I’d say we keep juice for his size/physicality as a bottom pair guy, have one of Katic/Reese/Wishart as a 7th man, and hopefully DeHaan or Donovan starting with the NHL squad. If Suter falls through, Wideman or Liles wouldn’t be bad pickups for that top 4 hole. Barret Jackman or Gleason wouldn’t be bad fill-ins if we wanted a tough physical shutdown d-man that could log 20min/gm too on short term deals. But after that, it’s trade route all the way to fill that top 4 hole, everyone else is too old to gamble on imo or not great.
-Step 3:Pick up a damn 3rd line “vet” center.
Bailey experiment still isn’t working great(jury will be out though) and Nielsen could possibly be gone. Does anyone really want to start next season with Reasoner/Bailey as our middle 6 centers? I hope not. On to the C’s: Stoll would all be good signings for that . If we can resign Nielsen, I still think moving Bailey to wing and replacing him with a C that can play better 2-way hockey and win faceoffs would be the smart move, but then it’s less of a priority given Strome/Ullstrom(maybe cizikas) likely in the NHL to take the job from Bailey sooner then later(I’d at least hope). And even with the “holes” we have this year at F, we are still an averagish at worst forward “core” that will only get better with the prospects we have (Nino, Strome, top 10 pick this year, Ullstrom/Nelson/Cizikas/Lee/Petrov, etc), even if we lose a player or 2 over the years. Plus, there isn’t really any top 6 players I’d like to add this year “at cost” for the future with possibly exception to Hemsky/Grabovski (and probably Semin/Parise, but both are really expensive).
Lastly, address goalie: but likely any tandem of Montoya/Poulin/+averagish free agent goalie should bring average goaltending.
7: Addressed above mostly, but Forsberg is supposedly around 6’2’’ 176lbs and not really an nhl-ready body(although the skills are there), and a body that you’d like to send another year through “juniors” (aka strome). Not sure about that predicament, but I’d send him back. And likely aside from Yakupov/Grigorenko, I’d probably send back anyone we draft.
8: Addressed above pretty much.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
by OzzyFan on Jan 2, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Talk about weak draft
The Russian goalie, Vasilievski, is worth taking a gamble on if he’s available with the 2nd round pick. What a player. Best player of the WJC so far.
Yeah, he's look really solid. If he can keep that play up I'd expect him to be drafted in the 2nd round, latest 3rd.
Might be time to draft some insurance in net for the future too, but a 2nd round is high for a question mark as all goalies pretty much are.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Just curious...
That’s a lot of strong draft talk…is that what you came away with when you saw them play? And, if those opinions are all from reading heights, weights and some paragraph length on-line info, why should the Islanders spend a nickel on scouting? They should do the same thing.
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said the islanders shouldn't scout draft prospects at all. Stop being a pretentious troll like you are a lot around here.
Obviously I’m not a professional scout, obviously I don’t work for the islanders, but it doesn’t take a genius to read statlines and grasp a player’s “most likely” projectable potential range over multiple prospect reports, WJC games, and highlights. Obviously this isn’t close to full proof and obviously the combines didn’t happen yet. BUT EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION AND OPINIONS, even Nail isn’t a sure thing future NHL star, but he’s gonna get the consensus #1 overall draft projection on every board from now till the draft no matter what. Professional scouts sometimes get stuff wrong and can’t guarntee top prospects become successful NHLers. So please, stop being a snobbish troll that puts words into people’s mouth’s acting like an ass. Thanks.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Good summary
I wish you and JP were the co GMs, but unfortunately the present mgmt will bring us more Pondolfo, Reasoner, and Rolston mistakes. We need to reach out beyond our farm system to give this team a shot next year. The clock is ticking not only on the rebuild but on the NVMC lease – and the two are intertwined.
I hate to be the wet blanket again
But I just don’t see Suter happening. No matter what the Islanders offer him (and they probably will come calling), he’ll most likely be a repeat of the attempts at Paul Martin and Dan Hamhuis – taking less money from Cup contenders. When Ken Holland calls and asks Suter if he wants to step right into Lidstrom’s shoes on the Red Wings, whatever dollar amount they offer will take a backseat to the chance at a Cup or three with Zetterberg, Datsyuk and the rest of them. And, no, I wouldn’t blame him, either.
I’m sure Garth is weighing all these questions, and probably a few dozen more that we don’t even know about. For my money, sign PAP, Montoya and Nielsen before the end of the season (if they’re game). Even with Strome or Bailey or whoever down the pipe, Frans’ skillset is something every team needs. If anything, the less offensive responsibilities he has, the better he is at being Frans Nielsen.
I can see all those vets moved at the deadline for whatever teams want to throw at Garth. Shame about Reasoner. He should have and could have really helped, but it may not be working out here.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Oh
And Happy New Year, everyone!
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Jan 1, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Even if
those rumors regarding Martin and Hamhuis are true, the money they took wasn’t significantly less if I’m remembering the reports correct. I’d like to see them offer at least 1 million more per year than any other team, and go one year longer than any other team, and see if they can land him (at that point you are talking somewhere between 15-20 million more over the length of the contract-no small amount).
Its not just about money and years, teams often go to the next step
Which is frontloaded contracts.
The Islanders are not going to frontload contracts.
I am hoping the NHL puts limits on that stupidity in the new CBA.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 2, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Does the frontloading benefit the players though? I thought that was really just about massaging the cap hit…
It does benefit them
The quicker they get their money, the quicker it is there to invest, spend, collect interest upon, etc.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 2, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's true
So why do you think the Islanders wouldn’t do that to land a Suter? I’m not sure there’s a reason not to from the Islanders’ standpoint, unless they don’t have the money.
Most teams dont
Frontloading contracts is a very “money team”, “big market” thing to do.
I just dont see the Islanders doing a complete 180.
I think its more realistic to picture them making a change back to actually spending money for on-ice talent, but not completely to the other extreme.
But like I said, Im hoping that the BS of frontloading-based cap circumvention is minimized if not eliminated in the next CBA- so hopefully it is a moot point.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 2, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I guess, but if we can’t match the tactics of Buffalo and Columbus, then we’re in pretty bad shape.
I don’t mind the contracts being frontloaded to an extent, but yea, it’s gotten so out of hand just to avoid the cap stuff. There needs to be some kind of limit on how much it can decrease from the first year to the last year. I do like the idea of being able to sign a guy long term, while not tying up tons of money in a player in his declining years.
by afrosupreme on Jan 2, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wet blankets
Ha, is not seeing Suter happening a wet blanket? I just assume there’s no way the Isles can convince him to come. Not unless he has some insider Isles friends who have been pumping him full of propaganda for quite some time.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Center More-Riches
we are ridiculously deep at Center – to the point where we are going to need to make some decisions
Nelson & Lee & Sundstrom are all centers – Strome as well + Tavares and Cizikas
that’s already 6
trades
just a thought and let me know if im nuts.i love frans and hope we can keep him.what if nabby and frans go to the leafs for say grabosky?would that be a good trade?the leafs need a goalie and pk help.we could use the scoring.if and when were out of the playoffs this might make sense?
I doubt Toronto would take on two UFAs
unless the Isles do a sign and trade, but then why trade Frans if the Isles can sign him. Also, do the Isles need another center in Grabovsky? I’m not sure if he can play other positions, and he isn’t any younger than Frans, so I don’t love this deal.
The Trade Deadline
I think Eaton, Nabakov, and Reasoner (if he shows some life out there on the ice) all have some trade value, but I agree that they might just be worth some low round draft picks. Which is fine if it allows some of the kids in BPT to come up and show that they deserve to stick.
Nabakov might be playing his way into deadline deal, and even though the Isles need him now, I would deal him and bring up Poulin or even play DP.
BTW,
MSG went thru with its threat to deny service to TWC customers.
TWC replaced MSG with the NBA channel.
Hope I don’t miss too many games.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
John
If everything you suggest happens we will still not be a play-off team next season. Why because – our goalies are really not top eight type stars which we would need with the still mediorce team you envision. We need a top pair D, and a real #1 type goalie at the least and in addition a Brooks Laich type forward. Otherwise we do better next season say 9 or 10, instead of this seasons probable 12 to 15 finish.
A top 4 D I'd say is our biggest whole next year, along with filling out our D with more nhl-caliber d-men.
If we can stockpile a few goalies, which I think we’ll sort of do, and if Poulin is close, I think we can get averagish goaltending out of whoever we have in net(DP aside). Suter or another top 4 d-man I think would be the gamechanger, turning staios into suter/liles/wideman/gleason/jackman would be a huge positive for our D, not to mention ridding ourselves of eaton/mottau/staios. Playoffs would be a huge jump for next year, would have been a gigantic jump this year. It’s likely not gonna be expected “per say”, but we could defintiely challenge for the playoffs if we get rid of the dead weight in the offseason, don’t lose any important pieces in the offseason/through trade(PAP/Nielsen, if we can’t extend them though, so be it), and bring in a solid top 4 d-man.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Next year.
I think we all agree for the Isles to challenge for a playoff spot next year they need a top 4 Dman; more defensive depth; a top six forward and quality starting goalie. I believe all of these players may already be in the system (deHaan, Donovan, Strome, Poulin) but they’re not ready for the NHL yet.
Can the Isles secure these players via trade and Free Agency for next year? Maybe. Maybe, Garth can pull off another “Grabner/Moulson” move. I just don’t see it happening. Next year should be another year to be patient. Develop the prospects and resign bridge/transition players like Nielsen, Parenteau, Montoya and Jurcina to two to three year contracts.
This is not what I want to hear either, I just think it’s reality. The Isles are not going to sign Ryan Suter, Barret Jackman, Zach Parise and Tomas Vokoun. If they did that would be geat and maybe then they could make the playoffs.
Therefore, we need to be patient and wait for Brock Nelson, Ryan Strome, Kirill Kabanov, Calvin de Haan, Matt Donovan and Kevin Poulin to develop.
by John from ATL on Jan 2, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Does FiOS have MSG in HD, officially???
If so, I might ask my landlord to switch from cable (again)… Verizon’s DVR capabilities are so much better than Cable’s…When I first moved into my apartment, I had FiOS for a while but it sucked not being able to watch the Isles on HD so I convinced the landlord to switch to shitty cable…I quickly realized how Cables DVR sucked…You cant prioritize or organize recordings like you can with Verizon’s…
Yes, MSG and MSG + are in HD
so you still miss out on HD when were put on MSG +2 but for the most part I’ve gotten the games in HD
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
by ArsenalLI on Jan 2, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good questions
Thanks for the season reset here. Lots on the the 2012 plate early on.
1) I’d like to see Frans, PAP, and Montoya all resigned before the trade deadline (in that order). I’d rather see Reese back than Jurcina, but both are expendable. If Frans doesn’t want to resign, then as hard as it would be, I guess trading him would make the most sense. Which leads to…
2) Because all of those guys have little to no trade value. MAYBE Reasoner can bring back a late pick. I don’t think Nabokov isn going to get much no matter how he plays because he’s already shown he’s physically unreliable. Ironically, it could be the second straight season we trade an over the hill goalie to TB, but this time get even less than Ty Wishart back.
3) Hopefully a few of those guys make it to BP and give them an added a boost. They’re in worse shape than the Isles right now. Frightening.
4) Martin should certainly be brought back (although I’m not sure about giving him a multi-year deal yet). We’ll need Katic after shedding Eaton/Mottau/Staios/Jurcina. I like Haley, and he gives us good AHL depth. No reason not to tender him.
5) Might be the year to dangle the #1 pick no matter where it lands, even if it is #1 overall. We’re not going to fill the defensive needs in the 2012 draft, but the pick and a player just might…
6) Unless, as you say we sign Suter. I agree (and wrote above). Throw him an extra million per, and an extra year overall and really force him to turn it down. Don’t think $5 million more than the next guy is going to get it done. The other question here is will they be able to spend enough money to not require any cap mules next year, be they former Devils or oft-injured goalies.
7-8) It would be nice for Strome to both push for a spot, and for them to have a slot in mind for him in camp. I imagine some of that will play out over the next few months.
by afrosupreme on Jan 2, 2012 9:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nice post John
Just getting back around to LHH. I think the biggest question (as discussed above) will be the plays on PAP and Nielsen. I think both could have very important roles moving forward. It’s just that they can be replaced by cheaper, less NHL-ready prospects… and they should have some value at the deadline.
Either choice would be valid, but getting nothing for both, and seeing both playing for other teams next year would just further validate thetheory that Garth Snow is over-employed.
But that goes on the list of, Suter isn’t happening, DP isn’t retiring and Nino should be in Portland.. IT SUCKS BUT THERE AIN’T SH*T WE CAN DO ABOUT IT!
I've had enough! It's time to call out Garth Snow!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Jan 3, 2012 12:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The only way Snow goes away
is for Wang to sell the team. What fool would take over a franchise with the Isle’s financial and Arena problems. We love our team but I hope the rescue isn’t leading to Canada. That is why next season must be the year that the “rebuild” bears fruit in the form of a real run to the play-offs with the resulting increase in attendance and media interest. Then maybe a local group or even Wang could finance a new building. Yes we have great prospects who are coming up, but we don’t have the time for their maturity. Solution, trade some prospects or and piks for guys who can get us into the play-offs next season. – and I’m talking about young players and not overpaid and over the hill rejects which Snow picked up this summer.
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lighthouse Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Islanders Schedule
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Who are the Non-Smythe candidates for the Devils, Kings?
- End is near for Rick Nash, Blue Jackets as trade discussions set to resume
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
