Islanders Top 25 Under 25: The Outsiders
by Dominik on Sep 20, 2011 12:30 PM EDT
in Islanders in Diapers
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PrintTo build a little more excitement and debate leading up to the 2011-12 season, we're introducing an "Islanders Top 25 Under 25" series -- a simple ranking of the best Islanders properties who have yet to hit age 25 by this year's training camp.
This is an idea conceived (I think) by Oilers blog Copper & Blue and copied elsewhere. We asked LHH readers over the summer if there was interest in an Islanders version, and enough of you acknowledged having nothing better to do so here we are. The thing I like about this exercise is it's not just a prospect ranking; plenty of those exist. Instead it considers every Islanders property under a specific age. (Andrew MacDonald, having just turned 25 this month, barely misses eligibility.)
Today we begin the series with a collection of those who just missed our cut, and some speculation as to why.
Note: For this first edition, I polled Keith, WebBard, mikb, myself, and two particularly prospect-focused LHH regulars, CanadianIslesLifer and MatthewM11. We wanted enough to get a decent number of voters but not so much that we make the first run unwieldy.
Aside from the first cuts listed below, we're going to unveil future results one by one rather than all at once -- but that's more to provide air time for each player (which we don't do enough) rather than badger you with an annoying slideshow. We know the final list will be debatable. We know this is not authoritative. We do think this will be a way to talk about young Islanders players we otherwise wouldn't devote separate posts to.
Before I get to the outsiders, one thing stood out to me among all the candidates: Only two were drafted by a team other than the Islanders, Michael Grabner and Ty Wishart. The age of Milbury is definitely behind us.
The general rule for this poll was who is a better hockey player right now, but as with all subjective rankings, I'm sure we let personal preference and dreams color our perspective. That's okay in my book: This is about averaging a general sample rather than pretending this is a science.
Maybe Next Year
These are the guys who received votes from at least one of us but finished outside of the aggregate Top 25:
Tomas Marcinko -- Marcinko only received one vote (mikb's) from our six-man panel, and that's likely a reflection of our surprise he was even retained this summer. The 2006 draft pick has yet to appear in the NHL, but the fact he's making another go of it -- rather than doing a Joensuu and returning home -- is a positive sign.
Mikko Koskinen -- This is where I point out that our votes were tallied before any preseason games. Koskinen's appearance on the outside may be a surprise to anyone who remembers his draft position (31) or still rates him highly. Personally, I can't figure him out and wonder if the hip injury that ruined his 2009-10 is still a factor. Thus far he has not impressed our panel, although the 23-year-old did appear on two of our ballots.
Corey Trivino -- Trivino was from the second round of that famous 2008 draft, and if he ever makes it to the pros, he'll prove going the NCAA route was the right decision. Had a rough start to his college career but last year in particular he started to change some minds. He appeared on one of our ballots.
Brenden Kichton -- Well, Kichton has been a key of his WHL Spokane team man and earned an invite to Red Wings camp a year ago. Drafted as an overager this past summer, that late bloomer status may be the only reason he didn't make the cut. He appeared on two ballots -- mikb's and Keith's -- each putting him at 23rd. It will be interesting to see if he clears our Top 25 next year.
Justin DiBenedetto -- An oversight, or a deliberate overlooking of an agitator in favor of prospects with sexier ceilings? DiBenedetto will likely never be a scorer in the NHL and might never even be a regular, but his chances are probably better than some of the players who ranked above him in our poll. Of all the guys left out, his may be the most silly because you could easily see him getting significant NHL time this year.
Jesse Joensuu -- This is probably another oversight, as Joensuu played half an NHL season last year and looked at least capable of holding down 4th-line/call-up work. We no doubt penalized him for being out of sight, out of mind. He appeared on two ballots, at 24th, but I don't expect him to appear in an Islanders uniform again.
Robbie Russo -- I confess I'm the only one who voted for the college-bound kid. What can I say? This summer's draft excited me.
Cody Rosen -- WebBard voted for Rosen at 25. Because someone had to. Just to continue an LHH tradition.
Maybe Not Even Next Year
That's it for ballot appearances outside our Top 25. Other players who qualify but did not receive votes include Jason Clark, Troy Mattila, Tyler McNeely (might be another oversight), John Persson, Tony Romano, Mitchell Theoret, and somewhat surprisingly, Aaron Ness.
I will point out again our ballots were in before any training camp (including rookie camp). And I'd bet once you get past the top 15, it all becomes a blur. That said, will pick this series up with #25 and continue throughout camp and into October.
As for comments, since this will be a recurring post you might save your own top 25 for later -- or maybe toss it up now and again later when we get toward #1. But we'll try to orient each post around an individual player, this current post being an obvious exception.
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Trivino
I was the one who voted for Trivino. I’ve been able to catch a few televised BU games over the years and have read a few complimentary articles and scouting reports about Corey’s game. He is a strong defensive forward with good playmaking ability. The problem is that we have quite a few prospects with similar profiles, not to mention having the best defensive center at the NHL level. So while I think Trivino’s chances of ever becoming an impact member of the islanders are slim, I do think he some upside and I’m not ready to write him off just yet.
read that too
i hope Trivino makes it, but i doubt it will be as an Isle. We have prospects like Ullstrom who are bigger and competing for same roles…hopefully Corey becomes a tradable asset.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That's exactly what I'm thinking
Ultimately Trivino may find a job as a 3rd/4th line center at the NHL level but with guys like Ulsstrom ahead of him on the depth chart here it will likely be elsewhere. Most likely his future is as either an AHL journeyman or in Europe but I still think he has a chance as a bottom six forward in the NHL
Russo, Koskinen & DiBenedetto...Joensuu?
I was very close to picking Russo with the 25th pick…i almost went with Klementyev @ 25 too, but gave it to another forward I know many are high on but I don’t think will make it…
Koskinen to me is a goalie who i project at best will be a very good backup…he is no doubt below Poulin and Anders Nilsson on the depth chart.
Couldn’t agree wih you more Don on Dibenedetto. 4th line shiit disturber who will never be a scorer, but i think your right, for his role, he will most likely make the NHL while some of the others ranked above him will inevitably end up busts. It’s just that Dibo’s ceiling isn’t that sexy. I admit to leaving him outside the top 25…
I honestly don’t think Joenssu is top 25 anymore…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions
JJ
I guess I just think if I’m being fair — and granted, I didn’t even put him on my ballot — if you throw him out there for a regular shift right now he’s probably more effective than some of the other guys on this list.
Of course, he’s older, but not 25 yet. Some of these guys will probably become JJ’s in a few years: Some enticing tools but an inability to put it all together at the highest level.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The reason I didn't go with him is the Sweden thing
Didn’t he go with a two or three year contract there? I feel like IF you come back, and you’re 25/26, you’re not really a “prospect”. I can’t really explain it.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I wouldn't throw that argument out of bed
Me, I left him off because I spent how many years learning to spell his name, and for what?!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Sep 20, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I only learned how to properly spell his name when I typed it for the 25 under 25
And he was gone about 48 hours later. Ullstrom (is it two Ls or two Ss?) and Dibennneddddett5$€tto are the two names I am still figuring out how to spell so watch them leave now too
When DiBenedetto and Bentivoglio were in BPT together
I couldn’t cut one of them fast enough.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The Finn named Jesse
For me, ceiling is important as well as current ability. That hurt both Joensuu and DiBo in my ratings. OK, they can hit and stir the pot. There are dozens more plugging away who can do that as well. Do they mix in a higher-end tool with that? Haley, for example, has some speed and a decent finish. On top of that, I second Keith on Jesse… he took a long time to even be that energy fourth-line guy. He didn’t really show anything else.
Honestly I liked Jesse, and all things being equal, I’d rather keep our “just a guy” than anyone else’s, unless they specifically offer a skill set that our “just a guy” might lack. If he came back and filled a wing on the bottom six and showed flashes of what got him a second-round call, I wouldn’t cry. And if he astounded me by getting into the Isles’ second line or working some PP time, I’d personally go wash his car and pick up his dry cleaning to say congratulations. It just doesn’t say “one of our 25 best young players,” that’s all.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Rephrase
I second Keith on Jesse
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
phrasing!!!
Heheheh. I second Keith’s on REMARKS ABOUT Jesse.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
And then, suddenly
Things took a surprising turn.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
can you imagine the play by play guy trying to say their names and keep up with the puck?
Di-ben-e-det-to passes to Ben-tiv-o-gl-i-o…shoots….
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 21, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be more worried
about our color man on that one! Debenovoglio. Benebedetto.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I like Klemteyev at 25
He didn’t make my final 25 but he easily could have. I think he can be a steady mid to bottom pairing stay at home defenseman in the NHL
I agree Koskinen is below Poulin and Nilsson on the depth chart and I question if he has the quickness to be an NHL goalie
The dibenedetto question is one of floor versus ceiling; upside versus NHL readiness. I focused primarily on upside but I agree his is a player who has a good probability of ending up as an energy/agitator type player
Joenssu is scary
Everytime he touches the puck I start looking at free agents.
by IslesFanForLife on Sep 20, 2011 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
Sometimes Swedes take a bit to develop. He certainly had enough skills for the AHL, taking a waiver on him by qualifying him was probably a smart move.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Proving once again the immense difference in skill, size, speed and knowledge one must have between playing AHL and NHL.
by IslesFanForLife on Sep 20, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Swedish Elite League is at the very least equal to the AHL
but i think the Swedish Elite League may be the best pro-league in the world outside of the NHL
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
The SEL has no veteran’s maximum like the AHL does, so you can run into any amount of teams with eight, ten, a dozen well-practiced veterans going all out, some of whom definitely have NHL-level skills. In the AHL, teams can dress no more than five players with 300 games of pro experience, so the lifers like Mark Wotton are harder to come by. It’s a league designed to move folks up or out so all the draftees can develop after their juniors careers are over.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Had no idea about this
In the AHL, teams can dress no more than five players with 300 games of pro experience,
Makes sense and is intuitive…just never had heard that it was an actual rule. I thought it just kind of worked itself out that way.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
SEL might be
one of the better leagues outside North America but KHL is so much better at the moment. Guess money contributes to that.
by DavidSweden on Sep 21, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
20 years ago
Someone like Joensuu would have a better chance of being an impact, second or third line winger capable of scoring 15-22 goals while throwing his body around and creating havoc in front if the net. Problem for the Joensuu types is that game has gotten faster. When I watch Joensuu sometimes he seems to slow to keep up with pace of the game, and this hurts him both offensively and in his defensive game
yep
and it hurt Hunter for same reasons…too slow
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Too slow, not able to turn quickly enough
You always hope with those bigger bodies. You always hope…
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Ness seems to be further along then we give him credit for
He hasn’t progressed as much as I would have liked for a 2nd rounder but I’d still put him in the top 25. I’d like to see how he handles the AHL but I’m not ready to give up on him.
No Sleep 'til....
i am one of those who left Ness off the top 25...left Katic off too
for me, size was a huge issue. the targetting and drafting of smallish, puck moving Dmen is one of the few areas I think Snow and Co. have gone wrong. Chances of injury with smallish players is greater, with defenseman it is a bigger issue. I think the Isles must agree with me somewhat, as they seemed to have changed course and have acklowledged the team needs to get bigger. Drafting Mayfield and Pedan early helps me believe this; however, I don’t think Snow has entirely abandoned drafting the smallish puck movers, b/c he did take Kicton but at least it was in the 5th, not 2nd or 3rd rounds.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It was size for me too
I like his skillset. Just going to be very hard for him to get there at the NHL level with that natural impediment.
That said, I’m not giving up on him yet either.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
If you watch footage of Ness when he was in HS
He was simply dominant, skating circles around everyone. His stick handling and speed was unmatched. In college he looked a lot more pedestrian, but I still some things I liked. The size is going to become more and more of an issue with every higher level of competition he faces. Katic is at least a little bigger and if I had to pick one it would be Katic, hands down
this reminds me so much of Strome
too often i’ve read articles from ppl weary of Strome, citing that he only had 30 points in OHL previous season and then blew-up last year….simple reality is, like Ness, Strome was undersized and was therefore unable to do the things he did in lower leagues when making OHL. Fast forward a year, the kid grew a few inches, added pounds, and in Strome’s own words, he was able to play the game like he always had before…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
On that note
It’s easier to get away with, or at least survive with, smaller size at forward than at D.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Additionally
I read somewhere that Strome was buried on a very deep team and really didn’t get good ice time and played closer to the 3rd and 4th lines.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
That did worry me initially (Strome's rookie OHL season)
But like you and Keith said I think it was situational (ice-time, no pp time etc.) and because he wasn’t close to physically mature rather than lack of skill or ability
Snow can't pick up a decent sized
Defenseman which proves that size is important on the back line
Hamonic, Mayfield, Wishart...
I admit that Snow has seemed more focused on smaller fleet of foot defenders (and only because you can you rarely have your cake and eat it too, and Snow seems to value speed over size, which i tend to agree with) but he has done a better job of finding speed And skill lately with guys like Wishart and Mayfield
Surprised DiBo didn’t make it. Not surprised about McNeely, as two weeks ago I had no idea who he was, but if this were done post-rookie games, he’d be on there I’m sure.
Cody Rosen did not make the list? :(
I’m surprised so many people don’t remember McNeely, I made a big deal about him the last few Bridgeport reports because he was racking up so many points.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
For me
I was reluctant to go the “that guy had 10 great games, he’ll be awesome” route. So I was just being conservative given relatively limited exposure still.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Agreed
And apart from those ten games, I knew so little about him. I didn’t feel comfortable ranking him ahead of players who I know more about and have longer track records of success
Ditto
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
fifthed
I wasn’t going to fall all over myself about the last three weeks of a completely lost season. He can only go up from here, baby!
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
still
The Bridgeport offense was awful when it didn’t have Bailey or Sim.
His 11 points was good enough for 16th on the team, lol.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
That's insane
I guess their own 500 injuries didn’t help, but still.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
yea, he was ahead and close to a lot of guys who played 50-60 games
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Well to be fair Webby, I ignore most of what you say.
Soooo…..yeah. And for the record, I do read Keith Quinn posts, I just automatically disagree, and I agree with most of mikb’s stuff, even though I don’t bother reading any of it. I find life is easier when you’ve got ground rules.
And I read and agree with just about all of Dom’s stuff primarily because the subtext is always based on Fransian overtones.
Now Les, no one likes a brown-noser who plays favorites
Except me of course.
Praise be to Frans.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
lol, I’d rather be ignored then automatically disagreed with.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
That's a shot at Keith right there
Ah well, he’s not good in the room anyhow.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You're wrong.
You actually do agree, you’re just too blind with rage at Garth Snow to see it. It’s like, we’re saying the same thing, but talking AT each other. Not TO each other.
Seriously
I was just telling the GF and kids that I wish they ignored me more!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Sep 20, 2011 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
huh?
Keith, when’d you get here?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Sep 21, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right now it's a wait and see with McNeely
He’s definitely caught my attention. If he can keep playing well in the AHL then he’ll be moving up my list for sure.
No Sleep 'til....
DiBo would make most teams top 25 under 25
when you start pencilling in the names, you really start to see the depth on Isles depth chart…that to me is what happened to Dibo…just simply ran out of 25 spots
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
DiBo looked great in 1st rookies game
But that was before this list was put together, apparently.
If it is true that he improved his skating in the offseason, he may very well be a useful 3rd/4th line player for the Isles this coming season, when needed.
Looking forward to the top 25 list! Did AMac make the cut-off? Looks like Comeau and Haley just missed it, as they turned 25 early in the year.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Sep 20, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
Correct
It might have been more interesting including Comeau and Haley, but I didn’t want guys turning 25 in the middle of the process.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
DiBo?
I think DiBo is an adapter. He’ll get more quality top 6 responsibilities in the AHL this year with better linemates. I wouldn’t put it past him to have a 50-60PT season… IN 60-65 GAMES. He’ll get about 10 in the NHL. I think people overlook the importance of his role in a PP oriented NHL. The kid can skate at an NHL level and he draws more penalties than he takes… plus he seems to be a master of getting under player’s skin.
We are blinded by the shiny, but sometimes the rusty ‘76 plymouth duster is a lifesaver if it can get you to work every day.
Nino is a question mark to score in the NHL… Strome still needs seasoning… Ullstrom is another one that has things to prove to jump a level… but Dibo has been there… did his job, and should get better. He may not be an Islander but I think he’ll have a 500+ game NHL career.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
DiBo's ceiling is Jon Sim.
Pardon me if I’m not impressed. A Pest (that’s a compliment, not a negative) can be of use, but at most he’s a fourth liner on a good team.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
agree
although I think DiBo can score more often then Sim. Sim’s best season was 17 goals in a 77 game season with the Thrashers. I think DiBo can break 20 in the right situation.
It’s interesting that Sim and DiBo both played for Sarnia,with Sim putting together 2 90 point seasons and a 100 point season while DiBo had a 63 and two 90 point seasons.
The Big difference is that Sim never struggled getting on the board in the AHL.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yeah, so...
If I was a 22 year old kid and you said I could put up Jon Sims career, I’d be okay with that.
Jon Sim:
469 NHL GP… take away the injury he had in 2007 and he easily tops 500G NHL career. If not for being transfered to the Gordon regime he probably does it even with the injury.
75G/139P314PIM… 2 17G seasons prior to the injury and a 13G season after the injury and playing for the worst team in the NHL. That’s not Sidney Crosby, but it isn’t SHIT either.
Of those 314PIM I’d guess that he drew 30+% more than he took. For all the shit JS took as an Islander he was out there every night doing his job, which included getting cross checked, face washed, and making space for other players either by creating distractions, playing gritty in the corners or finding his way to scoring opportunities… I have no doubt that if he returned to the regime that he signed to play with he would have been more of an important piece to the Islanders.
So basically… if Dibo can model an NHL career after that I’m sure he’d take it. And as a fellow Sarnia guy, I’m sure he’s looked at that as well and would be willing to do whatever it takes to get 500 games at an NHL rate.
I bet Rob Schremp would take 500 NHL games, or even a Jon Sim like career…
Now… why does any of that matter… because I really don’t think there are 25 Islanders under 25 that have that (500 productive NHL games) as an upside. Some will be on their third or fourth team before they even sniff the NHL as a mid season call up. At least 10 of them haven’t played against men yet. So, when ranking the top 25 under 25 Dibo would have to be in my top 20.
Just sayin’
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
I'm not saying DiBo wouldn't take it.
I’m saying its not something to be enthused about, and its a good sign of our system that he’s not on this top25 list.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
agreed
no doubt when all is said and done, Dibo will have made more money than some of those on the list, but a fourth liner isn’t much to get excited about, and yes, it definately is telling of the state of the system.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And that is partially how I ranked
I basically didn’t count the guys I felt projected as 3rd or 4th line grinders even if they had more of a chance at making an NHL team.
Sorry, but it’s my list…it’s bound to be wrong in most cases. I think the more fun thing will be revisiting it in 5 years and thinking things like “man I can’t believe I had ____ 6th and ____25th”.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Sep 20, 2011 6:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You need to look at it another way
In 5 years you’ll be like, “Man, look at how bad he was back then, not even cracking my top 20. That kid really pulled it together. I think I motivated him.”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
God willing!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
A 6'2 winger scoring 30 plus goals as a 17 year in the WHL is impressive
Impressive in the sense it will likely get you drafted, and that in itself is no small feet. That being said, he is just another late round pick who has a long way to go to proving he is capable of being an NHL player. Read Dom’s caveat- this is about who is a better player now. I too see some upside and potential in Persson, but I can’t say he is right now a better player than any of the players I ranked, which included Joensuu and Dibennedetto.
Persson is a good prospect, problem is there are easily 25 guys under 25 who are better at this time
on a team ranked in the bottom third of league in terms of prospects, Persson, i think, would be on that list…maybe even a team ranked in the middle ten…Isles are litterally somewhere between 1st and 3rd in the league in prospect rankings.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 2:27 PM EDT reply actions
Persson
CanadianIsles- I disagree.
Im curious who is ahead of him in the 15-25 range.
Jot down your own list (and remember this includes NHLers) just to get a handle on how deep this team is
With young talent. I was really surprised and had a hard tine coming to terms with having tobrank some guys so low or not at all
And of course we all have guys we see more potential in than most fans. If we all agreed on the rankings there would be no discussion, and that would be no fun
My outsiders
Kichton, Dibo, Persson, Russo and Miko. So I was feeling pretty smart, agreeing with our panel. Then I saw NO ONE voted for Ness, who ranked 20th on my list. Which means you guys have somebody top 25 who didn’t make my top 30.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
Heh, well it's not Cody Rosen
Who will it be, I wonder? I feel pretty good about who made the 25, but that said the nature of this means 15-25 and 20-30 are all going to be a cloud of debate over blurry differences — and that’s not even getting into whether/how we value F, D and G differently.
This makes me realize how contentious placement in the 3-7 area will be.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
couldn't agree more with Dom
I actually found it a struggle deciding whom to place where at times, and who to leave off…
example…when placing Donovan and Dehaan….i have reservations about DeHaan but can’t deny his skill…and i love Donovan’s game, hope it translates to the NHL…where do you place them? I rationalized that Dehaan had to be ahead of Donovan, but Donovan shouldn’t be too many spots behind Dehaan…it is tricky, but as others have said, that is also a testament to both the quantity and quality of Isles youth and prospects….
incidently, i don’t think we’ve mentioned it yet but 25 years of age is suppose to be the average age when hockey players hit their prime….hence 25 as a point of focus….
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
3-7 is going to be fun
I could see my #3 being as low as #7 on a lot of peoples list.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
Well I figured out who missed my cut
If LHH top 25 includes a Russian defenceman who played in Bridgeport last year. I must add, my perception of him has risen since I made my list prior to rookie camp.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
i thought Klementyev was allowed to go to Russia to mourn plane cash victims?
i didn’t think he was @ rookie camp? i think he has a shot at being a defensive, hitting 3rd pairing right D who makes that first pass…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
O.K. Busted
My perception of him has risen…… since reading other peoples opinion who are higher on him.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
lol
yep, as both Dom and I posted, size was the issue…although i agree with Dom and wouldn’t give up on him yet..
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ness is a tough one
And I wouldn’t have a problem seeing him ranked 20th. He does have quite a bit of skill and upside. My problem with him is that we already have quite a few small, mobile defenders I would rank ahead of him on our depth chart- guys like DeHaan, Donovan and Katic.
I rate all four top 25
I just don’t expect to see all four with the NYI at the same time.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
And that's natural
I mean just look at JP’s list below. All of these guys from recent drafts, it’s doubtful even half of them will be on the roster at the same time. Oy, there will be some non-tenders to some pet favorites in the future.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Not my list...
just scrambling to list the candidates:
2011:(6) Strome, Mayfield, Pedan, Sundstrom, Persson, Kichton
2010: (3) Nino, Nelson, Kabanov
2009: (7) tavares, deHaan, Koskinen, Nilsson, Klementyev, Cizikas, Lee
2008: (10) Bailey, Trivino, Ness, Hamonic, Petrov, Donovan, Ullstrom, Poulin, Martin, Dibo
2007: (01)Katic
2006: (05) Okposo, Rakhshani, Marcinko, Grabner, Wishart
2005: Nothing
2004: Nothing Comeau (already 25 in FEB)
NHL regulars at the top:
1-7: tavares, Okposo, Grabner, Hamonic, Bailey, Martin, Wishart,
Players who have played in the NHL and first rounders bubble to the second tier
8-15 Strome, deHaan, Nelson, Katic, Klementyev, , Poulin, Rakhshani, Dibenedetto(see my reasoning), Koskinen*, Joensuu*
- played in NHL in emergency situations, Joensuu gave up, and koskinen is years away from proving himself worthy of a real shot again…I am not counting them in the top 25.
2nd rounders, and draft sliders
16-23 Kabanov, Petrov, Lee, cizikas, sundstrom, Mayfield, trivino, Ness
Others
24: Donovan: doesn’t fit any of the above categories, but had an outstanding NCAA career and should see NHL time in the next two years. Could very well prove to be a top 10 on this list by Christmas.
25: Ullstrom: probably the best chance of any 2010-11 AHLer to play 10+ NHL games this year.
26:Nilsson: 3rd round pick who has played against men and succeeded in the SEL. Should see NHL time within the next two years.
27: McNeely: Has a whole year to move up this list. a PPG 40 game stint in the AHL should do that… we’ll see.
28: Pedan: very impressed with him in the rookie games, and he has the feel of a solid prospect.
29: Kichton: Late bloomer, could be somewhere on this list by the end of the year.
30: Marcinko: -20 in the AHL isn’t really making a statement
31: Joensuu* QUITTER
32: Koskinen* injury, recovery… loss of mobility is not good for a goaltender… see RDP.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
yep... just caught that myself.
NO ATTENTION TO DETAIL… I MUST BEAT MYSELF NOW!!!
/walks away with head hung… sobbing
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
That's ok JP, I left out Tavares from my rankings to be edgy and different...
I mean, after all, this isn’t a list of top busts under 25, right!!??!! Can I get a witness? No? Tough crowd.
I’m just joshing, of course.
by MatthewM11 on Sep 20, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
somehow missed nino
in the 8-16 category… everybody slide over one… Poulin and Mikko… you stay where you are, we can’t afford you hurting your knees or hips.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
The order of my list is going to vary
because I let my peception of potential rule. My criteria, Who would I trade even up. So I have some prospects rated above current NHLers. Strome above Bailey for instance. If a rival G.M. offered to trade us Strome for Bailey, I’d make that trade.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
i did that too, somewhat
a couple of my picks may look like “overdrafts” but that is why…i see 3 potential franchise players, and those three were ranked in order by me…of course, one only had a sniff of NHL and one has never played an NHL game, but still…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Me thinks you hold a certain Swiss player
in very high regard.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
lol
your fishing, and i have to be careful not to give it away, but my top 3 are all guys i see as franchise players who will/can single-handedly control a game. Our favourite Swiss was just a notch below that on my list, not saying anymore lol
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone recently posted a link to an earlier post from Ben about how Nino
Was considerably less effective when not playing with Johansen in Portland. This doesn’t worry me or change my perception about Nino, but it does suggest that Nino himself maybe isn’t a game-changing franchise player, but is someone who will be productive paired with those types. We have Tavares and Strome- creative playmaking forwards who create chances and make those around them better. I think Nino will be one of the players on the receiving end of that creativity. Finishers are just as important as your playmaking visionaries. So I agree that Nino is a notch below your true game-changing franchise players.
reading my mind Matthew
that was preciously my line of thinking…Nino is a goal scorer…would Bossy or Kurri have scored as much without playing with gifted set up men? Doubt it…when i read these scouting reports slamming Nino, that is precisely what i am seeing…big body, can go to net, plays bigger at bigger games, will do anything to score, often accused of not having a good game, yet at the same time, there he is on the score sheet with one or two goals…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to fish
Because I only see two players, that I hope to meet that criteria.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
sounds like you've guessed my first two...
lol
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If I recall
You and I were the two strongest LHH voices in supporting #2 before he was Islander property.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
lol
my early money is on the Isles drafting a big left D, Slater Koekoek in 2012 if they don’t trade their first pick…projecting on where i think we’ll pick and and who will be around…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Sep 20, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine too, 70too
I’d bet all of us do that depending on the player. There’s only so much “objective” factoids to go on, and after that potential rules — especially since so many of these guys haven’t played each other or at the same level.
I thought about making it strictly “you wouldn’t trade any player straight-up for the player ranked above him,” but I wanted more wiggle room. I figure the joy is in averaging them out.
(And just to expand further, I was wary of groupthink among our authors and commenters, but I found everyone’s opinions varied enough that we’d have a good mix. And we do.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I would blame
The New Mexico school system for that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I forget
Isn’t DiPietro still under 25?
We have him signed for 10 more years, so he must be in that range no?
Feel like he should be 44
I was in High School when DP was drafted. I’m now in my 30’s and balding. How the hell is he still in his 20’s? How the f-ck does that work? Oh, I just checked and I was in fact already in college when he was drafted but still, that feels like forever ago…..
I wish I aged as well as he has, he looks no different than he did the day he got drafted!
by MatthewM11 on Sep 20, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess that
Highly conditioned athletes age better than cigarette smoking beer drinking ex heroin addicts. Go figure!
by MatthewM11 on Sep 20, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some of them look good too.
Go figure, huh?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 21, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He is still really hot, I can attest to that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 20, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, well, you know
That’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Sep 20, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Matty is a great kid
But he is not ‘hot’ per se.
And believe me, I am fond of long hair.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 21, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm a straight male and I could of guessed that
Although unlike DP Matt Moulson has two full functioning knees, so from the standpoint of pure functionality and practicality, I think Moulson is the better all around candidate. After all, there is nothing sexy about sitting on Rick’s wheelchair while he rolls you across the thresh-hold.
Seriously- people bash the guy for everything. You cant even give him that he is great looking? Holy shit lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 21, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
you can't blame us
I mean, they were gonna film one of those commercials with the chains and the bare chest with RDP, but they couldn’t get anyone to insure him for it. We were all denied our chance. =D
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
As long as theres still a few shirtless interviews its all good.
Now to figure out how to get select members of the administrative and coaching staffs to participate…
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 21, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Roberto Luongo is better looking.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Sep 21, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I'm just kidding Im a DP fan
And to be honest I’m a little jealous. A good looking millionaire who only averages 10-15 of work days a year.
by MatthewM11 on Sep 21, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahahaha and ouch
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
How are you on eyebrows???
Hubba hubba
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Whoa, George Bailey's uncle really let himself go after losing that deposit at the bank
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
DP turned 30 yesterday
But since he’s been with the Isles in what seems like four different eras of team history.
I have this vivid mental image
Of what the Newsday and Daily News web sites looked like when RDP was drafted and Luongo was traded. I just remember switching back and forth — there weren’t browser “tabs” in those days — repeating to myself, “Wait … WTF? I mean … WTF?”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
While I was waiting for my AOL dial up to connect me to the Internet
I just said screw this (4hrs later) and opened up Newsday to see that Milbury in his infinite wisdom used our first round, first overall pick on a goalie. “this is going to be a great decade” I thought while the busy signal rang out like a siren song foretelling of death from my modem behind me…
I just couldn’t believe it, I was in complete shock. It’s weird, cause I guess I’m the opposite of most Isles fans when it comes to DP. I’ve always hated him and to be he was the epicenter of Milbury’s insanity. He was picked because he was from Boston, and because Milbury decided he wanted “To make a big splash”
But the last few years I’ve been able to separate DP a bit more from Milbury. I guess I get the feeling that 15 year contract or not, DP is a competitor and wants to do good for the Islanders at the end of the day. That and I’ve always been a fan of the Underdog, and now it’s gotten to the point that I just want DP to have a good season so I can stop hearing about him.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Sep 21, 2011 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fixed
now it’s gotten to the point that I just want DP tohave a good seasonretire so I can stop hearing about him
I've always tried hard to separate those, but it is hard
Honestly, RDP’s style or whatever you’d call it isn’t quite my thing. I’m not naturally inclined to like him. I’ve never appreciated his urge to do too much rather than just enough. But I do think at a very formative age a nutcase put him in a tough position. Then the contract made things worse — but not until the worst-case scenario (injuries during prime) came about.
I respect his competitiveness, all the hellish rehab he’s been through when he could’ve just retired to the Bahamas, and the pretty evident signs that this ordeal has humbled him. But his situation is also an annoying distraction for “my” team (not quite his fault). If he recovers to be not-awful but only just-below-average, that may be the worst result.
I want the drama to end one way or the other.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Sep 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
