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Islanders Goaltending Battles: In Defense of Cerberus

or; Are Three-Headed Monsters really all that bad?

I'm going to assume for the sake of discussion that the Islanders are heading into this 2011-2012 season with a three-man goalie rotation consisting of Nabokov, Montoya and DiPietro. The reality could be quite different, but the assumption allows me to put forth a very speculative take on what the benefits of a three-man goalie rotation could be for the Isles.

Star-divide

What do all three of these men have in common?

They all have something to prove. DiPietro needs to prove he can stay healthy and play at a level which is higher than "pretty bad, actually." Nabokov needs to shake off a poor previous showing in the KHL, a fair share of rust and the lingering stink from his snub last season. Montoya needs a chance to show that he's really an NHL-caliber netminder and that his successes last season weren't a fluky hot streak.

How does a three-man rotation help the team?

What I hope for personally (even if it's a bit ruthless) is that we'll see some Athletic Darwinism and the competition between three men for what are nominally two roster spots will cull the weak sooner rather than later. Maybe the fire will forge a clear leader and the other two will only squabble over the backup spot. Or maybe the pressure will break somebody (or even more than one somebody) early and the team can proceed with a decent starter and whoever proves to be the lesser of two evils most fit for the crease.

Entertain the thought of the following scenarios for a moment:

  • We can rebuild them, we have the technology - DiPietro and Nabokov both experience a rebirth and provide steady, if unspectacular, goaltending. Montoya doesn't quite live up to expectations but winds up bumping a pretender out of the Sound Tigers' own three-headed monster. The Isles can win as long as the forward corps is lighting the lamp.
  • No Russian - Montoya and DiPietro answer the Call of Duty and Nabokov departs the Island, vindicating all those folks who said we didn't need him anyway. DiPietro is an expensive backup but we've got to reach that cap floor somehow, right? Turns out Montoya is the Real Deal and he steals some games for his squad. In a world without Lundqvist, the Rangers would have been alright with El Cubano. 
  • Hip checks out - DiPietro breaks (in an unfortunately literal fashion) under the strain and starts a new chorus of "When are we getting rid of this albatross, anyway?" from the armchair GMs. Nabokov and Montoya are solid enough that even the organization starts having a hard time sticking by poor Ricky.
  • Goalpocalypse Now - Montoya flounders, Nabokov isn't able to return to form and DiPietro's skeleton disintegrates during warm-ups. Poulin packs his Tiger Balm for his trip to the Island and Garth Snow takes his suspiciously-large pads out of storage. The beleaguered Sound Tigers do the best they can with the scraps.

My money is currently on the third possibility. As much as I would love to see Rick succeed, it seems like a longer shot with every passing year. Nabokov might just be hungry enough to turn in a good season and I'm inclined to believe that Montoya is at least good enough to be a steady 1A kind of guy if not a no-question starter.

This position poses so many questions for this team that I think we're actually much better served by the glut and I'm excited, if somewhat terrified, of where the chips may fall. So what say you, Lighthouse residents? Are all these options a blessing, or should the team just trade Josh Bailey for Dwayne Roloson resign itself to another shaky year in goal?

Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.

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Ah, fun stuff

Goalpocalypse Now is an excellent term which I hope not to see on the big screen.

Oh, and honestly: I tend to agree. This double three-goalie situation is awkward, but I think it’s the best insurance given the many strange variables the Islanders face. I’ve spent the summer betting that someone will grab the reins (and stay healthy) in a productive way, but of course I would not put my money on any specific one of them.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Sep 12, 2011 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

P.S.

From now on, I think we’ll list lineups as:

Defense: Hamonic, MacDonald
Cerberus: Montoya

…etc.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Sep 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's one drawback

The reason teams so rarely carry three goalies on the active roster: this means one fewer skater slot available. Remember that the Isles still have a crowd of defenders and forward prospects to sort through as well. If they’re carrying three keepers and seven D, they can only have 13 forwards around.

Another problem – if you have to move these guys to minors, they have to clear waivers to go down, and then re-entry waivers to return. I really think that you’re going to see one of them traded before the rosters have to be trimmed.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 12, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I share fear of #1 (one less skater)

But as for problem #2, I don’t think it’s as big: I doubt there will be a trade market for whichever guy loses out, and if he loses out, waivers is probably an acceptable risk.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Sep 12, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Nabakov has a no trade clause in his contract

I could be wrong though. But I remember reading something about that in a recent piece about the islanders goaltending situatio.n

All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.

by pippup on Sep 12, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've heard conflicting reports

I’m not sure if clauses like that remain in force when the contract is tolled. But even so, they can ask him to waive it if they work something out – and all things considered, I can’t conceive of it being a problem to Nabby if Garth works out some way to send him to a contender.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 12, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

From what I read

There is a trade clause and he can waive it; but, if he waives it then he has to pass through waivers again. I don’t now if that still stands. But, even if we could trade him, I don’t think a contender would want him, as of now anyone. We’ll see how he does in preseason.

All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.

by pippup on Sep 12, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

M recollection is

that the “must pass through waivers to be traded” only applied in 2010-11. I think we can trade him at any time this season.

STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!

by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Sep 12, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I believe his NMC still stands.

But the waiver condition no longer stands.
So the Isles can only trade him IF he wants to be traded… and they cannot send him to BPT.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Sep 13, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good to know

None of the articles found made the terms of his contract with the Isles clear.

All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.

by pippup on Sep 13, 2011 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Sep 13, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahaha nice

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 13, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

LMAO!

I want to DVR this show BIG time.

Can two goalies share an apartment without driving each other crazy?

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Sep 13, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm going to sprain a finger

from hitting the Rec button furiously in this thread

Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.

by ilopan on Sep 13, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hysterical laugh in the office.

Please send the script to Wang for approval. That’s his way to recoup some losses.

by O.Bender on Sep 13, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

we gotta get our own Bloge Salming for stuff like this

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 15, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

We can have an episode where Nabakov has a garage auction for all of Snow's stuff,

and he invites all of the other 29 GMs to come. Then he asks each one, in standings order, who wants the various items. Snow is # 30, and as each item is taken, Nabby passes in front of Snow and says, “WAIVE BYE BYE!!!”

Burke just keeps bidding on Tavares, eventhough he’s not for sale.

At one point, the door opens and a blinding light shines through, and you hear Nabby yell, “Fransy, close se door, you are blinding us with your magnificence – AGAIN!”

At some point Cory Clouston needs to make an appearance, for no real reason, just cause I kinda feel bad for him.

by Les Beaver on Sep 15, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nabby keeps bringing Bailey up on the stage for auction, but Snow just keeps saying, “Mmmmm….no, not yet. We’ll get to him later.”

Bailey always looks dejected. And Snow makes him wear a little propeller hat and those English short pants suit things that were popular during WWII.

“Say it Josh.”
“I don’t want to …”
“Josssshhhh…..”
“Look mama…there’s an airplane up in the sky….”
“HAHAHA….kills me everytime.”

by Les Beaver on Sep 15, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like I said above, I believe so. Theres no logical reason it wouldnt be in effect, it is part of the contract he signed last season and the rules are that he has to abide by that contract this season.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Sep 13, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. And a 3rd drawback: consistency.

Some goalies only find their form and top play through consistency. If any of these goalies are like this(I’d guess DP is, unless one of his knees has problems), then this is a big problem. Starting twice every 6 starts is horrible for workhorse starting goalies(usually) that aren’t used to a backup role. It can create a big problem. I hope it doesn’t though. Then there is also the problem of knowing when to break up the 3-headed monster. Never should it run all season and it should only be run to figure out who the top 2 goalies are, and even so, one of the top 2 goalies has to be DP because of his salary unless he is injured. So in essence, this is a somewhat pointless exercise unless DP gets injured or Nabokov/Montoya show themselves noticably better then the other quickly. This could have a lot of issues.

by OzzyFan on Sep 12, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

this is the main problem. Just getting enough work for a fair judgement is hard with 3. I think if they do end up with 3 it’s because DiPietro isn’t capable of going back to back nights, or of playing well. If they do go 3, I think you’ll see one goalie take the clear #1 (hopefully Montoya), and the other two will split backup duties (basically playing once every two weeks). This might kill the backups, but we can’t kill the starter.

by afrosupreme on Sep 12, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goalpocalypse Now

I don’t think Nabokov makes it to November as an Islander. Montoya didn’t look good in the World Championship and then he got hurt. DP, he’ll be injuried before Christmas.

I could see both Montoya and DP playing it out for the #1 job to the Holidays. Once DP gets hurt, Poulin to the rescue. The Isles make a playoff push in Feb & March but all that poor goaltending in Oct and Nov costs them and they don’t make it.

by John from ATL on Sep 12, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

here's how I would rank our keepers

Poulin
Nabokov
Montoya
Nilsson
DiPietro
Koskinen

Nilsson intrigues me – I hope he starts the season in BPT

Poulin/Nabokov/Montoya should be the three headed monster

Koskinen & Nilsson at BPT alternating to fully develop

DiPietro should be traded

but I dream….

by Cary K on Sep 12, 2011 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Poulin makes me nervous

because it seems like he’s developing a history of injuries to that one knee.

Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.

by ilopan on Sep 12, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The dislocations

Were in different knees…although I’m not sure that makes anything better…

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Sep 12, 2011 6:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

actually

It’s been both knees.

by Empire39 on Sep 12, 2011 7:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

And it should....

We’ve had this discussion around here before………..I think Poulin is a VERY talented goalie, but the dislocating kneecaps are not a problem that will go away. I have the same issue with my knees and had to stop doing karate and kickboxing because I would pivot and the kneecap would dislocate, which in turn would tear my ACL’s and MCL’s.
I have had surgeries to attempt to correct this, but you are never 100%. It will still occur.

"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies

by JW1970 on Sep 13, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, if it's structural, there's limited ability to correct it

Especially for a butterfly goalie. All that twisting and pivoting and stop-start re-reactions put incredible stress on the joint.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 13, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure why everyone is talking about a three headed monster

Someone’s going to get injured, and I think you know who I’m looking at.

by turkey116 on Sep 12, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Right now I'm just looking at your Ice Hockey avatar

Mesmerizing. Ah, those days when hockey was innocent and played by four thin-to-fat men and one surprisingly Hasek-like goalie.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Sep 12, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

In *Ice Hockey* terms

I think this team could use some more fat guys

Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.

by ilopan on Sep 12, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

all the fat guys are playing Baseball

I loved those roly-poly dudes.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 13, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Much as I'd love him to start in Bridgeport

I think Poulin will be part of this conversation as well

Nabokov is, I think, still trade bait, unless both DP and Montoya falter and the team is uncomfortable with Poulin at this time. Of course, at that point, Nabokov would be a regular starter and that’s pretty good for a goalie, unless he’s truly desperate to be on a playoff contender (where we’ll be in the standings in that scenario is of course part of the question, but feel free to speculate on that as well…)

by Dr. Copp on Sep 12, 2011 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you kidding

The only thing to speculate about is what goaltender other than DiPietro is going to be injured.

I think that the management will pressure DiPietro to retire this year.

by bass_n_treble on Sep 12, 2011 6:24 PM EDT reply actions  

If he stays healthy they will also give him next year

Next year will be 2.5 years without a knee surgery. I love the guy and believe he can get it back if he can stay in the lineup. It would be the best scenario for the team

DP will be good again... written 9/6/11. Now thats a prediction truly believed!

by themass on Sep 12, 2011 7:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Best scenario

I believe is Poulin recovering, staying healthy and reaching his potential, rather than DiPietro.

by Dorfer on Sep 13, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albatross! Albatross! Albatross!

Another GM approaches Snow

GM: Two choc-ices please.
Snow:I haven’t got choc-ices. I only got the albatross. Albatross!
GM: What flavour is it?
Snow: It’s a goalie, innit? It’s a bloody injured goalie . .. it’s not any bloody flavour. Albatross!
GM: Do you get disability insurance with it?
Snow: Course you don’t get bloody insurance with it. Albatross!
GM: How much is it?
Snow: 4.5 million dollars a year
GM: I’ll have two please
Snow: I only got one, ya ****!

The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
We don't need no water let Nassau County burn
Burn motherf******s burn

by FireGarthSnow on Sep 12, 2011 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Or we could call it King Ghidrah/Monster Zero

As long as their is a cap floor, DP will be an Islander to start the season: Once it starts, then he can be LTIR’ed and then add the skater.

The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
We don't need no water let Nassau County burn
Burn motherf******s burn

by FireGarthSnow on Sep 12, 2011 11:01 PM EDT reply actions  

DP wont play more the 10 games before knee swelling forces him to the Dr. Poulin will not have a lengthy career due to his knees. Mikko wont last past his elc. The isles should draft another goalie…. Im not joking especially if nillson doesnt look good this year in bpt

by neologizer on Sep 13, 2011 2:25 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

My Vote HIP CHECKS OUT!!!!

The 3 headed monster can not work. You can not get enough work for any of the goalies that way. All you do is hurt all 3 of them.

It is time DiPi and the Islanders to end AS THE STOMACH TURNS soap opera. He had 1/2 a great season and was between average and descent before that.

If the Islanders are going to make it to the playoffs they need VERY GOOD GOALTENDING.

This is what I am hoping for:
1. DiPi gets hurt again and finaly gets the message and retires before the season starts.
2. Montoya wins the competition between him and Nabokov.
3. Both Montoya and Nabokov play well enough for the Islanders to stay in the playoff hunt.
4. Poulin plays like the stud he can be in BP
5. The Islanders at the deadline trade Nabokov and Draft pick for a veteran top 4 Defenseman.
6. Poulin joins the Islanders after the Nabokov trade.

That is the best case scenario.

DIPI MUST GO!!!! Anyway possible. For the Islanders to have anyshot at the playoffs.

by mordred0831 on Sep 13, 2011 11:56 AM EDT reply actions  

even I've rec'd this

hoping for Dipietro to be good (not counting on it)

never wish a person to be hurt

by Cary K on Sep 15, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

hoping for Dipietro to be good (not counting on it)

Now that is understandable- and realistic.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Sep 17, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right now it's not possible this season unless DP gets hurt, and it's pretty bad that you'd wish that upon someone.

So unless DP is hurt, expect him getting I’d say at least 25starts next year. There is just no way he is benched if we keep him up(which we have to do), and there is no way we run a trio at goal all year.

by OzzyFan on Sep 13, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

but if you follow your own logic, and he plays 25 games, then there is no way we make the play-offs – which is my conclusion and maybe yours as well.

by altosax on Sep 14, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think DP can't be worse then how he played overall last year, it was rust and re-learning the game pace.

I think DP can definitely throw up an overall .900+ save percentage next year, it’s not great but I’d guess passable for a backup. I still have some hope that DP will comeback and be actually very usable with a .910~ save percentage next year. I know it’s against the grain, but the way the man competes and trains hard to get to where he does makes me think he may finally get it. Remember, a number of DP’s goals last year were from misplaying pucks/being out of the net when he shouldn’t have, so if he cuts back on them and plays a little better overall then he did last year, .900 should be at least expectable imo. But who knows.

by OzzyFan on Sep 14, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Harry Potter pwn one of those things in like Book 1 or 2?

When he was 7 or something? I dunno, but if a mythical beast can’t do his job against a pre-teen, that’s one shitty mythological beast, IMHO.

by Les Beaver on Sep 13, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok... i know too much about this

It was, technically, “Fluffy,” one of Hagrid’s monstrous “pets,” set as one of the levels of defense around the Sorceror’s Stone. Harry and his friends didn’t defeat the creature – they came across it already defeated (lulled to sleep by a magical song) and simply tiptoed past. The last few steps may have been at top speed because Fluffy suddenly woke up, but this was book one, they would have been chew toys if it had been entirely on them.

(So my wife’s an elementary school librarian. Sue me.)

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Sep 15, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

TASKING! where are the photon torpedos? fire!

i know there’s nothing to talk about but why all the negative speculation… can’t we just wait and see?

you do realize no matter how much you speculate… and assume the worst… it has zero impact on reality… right?

like the old klingon proverb… " ghorgh SoH SoH chenmoH pa’ vo’ SoH ’ej jIH" when you assume you make an ass out of u and me

by Khan Noonien Singh on Sep 13, 2011 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

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Islanders Schedule

1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


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