Al Montoya Might Be Grossly Underrated
by Mark D on Aug 16, 2011 2:06 PM EDT
in Big Picture Musings
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PrintIn the Stanley Cup Finals, it was an interesting goalie duel between Tim Thomas and Roberto Luongo. Luongo, the former 4th overall wunderkind, faced off against Thomas the 9th round selection who didn't make an NHL appearance until he was 28. Going back to the conference finals, Dwayne Roloson of the Lightning didn't play his first NHL game till he was 27 and Antti Niemi's first game was when he was 25. With this as a background, the sudden emergence of Al Montoya at the age of 25 doesn't seem as surprising.
Unfortunately for Montoya he made that emergence with the Islanders, after the media has already declared him a bust. While some lazy writers point to Evgeni Nabokov as the team's savior in net, they ignore the run that Montoya had with the Islanders. Montoya had a better save percentage than everyone but Kevin Poulin. The night and day difference between his SV% .921 and Nathan Lawson's .897, Rick DiPietro's .886 and Mikko Koskinen's .873 raises the question of what might have been. Anyone who watched Lawson and Koskinen in comparison to Montoya can tell you the talent level was night and day.
There's always a certain level of talent when you're a former first round selection. The Islanders lately have become a home for wayward former first rounders, including Rob Schremp, Ty Wishart and Michael Grabner. Much like Wishart and Grabner, Montoya is on his third team with the Islanders and possibly his last NHL chance. Along with being a first round selection, Montoya has a long resume of being a talented, outstanding goalie.
Ironically Montoya played for the 01-02 US National U-18 team, sharing goalkeeping duties with Jimmy Howard, another goalie who only recently got his big break in the NHL. Howard was actually drafted a whole year before Montoya would be.
Montoya started as a freshman for the University of Michigan. In three years he played 123 games, posting 86 wins. He was also the starting goalie for Team USA at the World Juniors for two years, having an outstanding year in 03-04. He posted a .944 SV%, giving up 8 goals in 6 games and was named Tournament All-Star as Team USA won Gold. Montoya also racked up the awards in college, being named CCHA All Rookie Team, All Tournament team, CCHA Second All-Star Team and NCAA West Second All-American Team.
When Montoya signed with the Rangers everyone probably thought he was on the fast track to be their next starter. Unfortunately Montoya's first season in the Rangers system was 05-06, the same year that Henrik Lundqvist would grab the starting goaltending job and never look back. Meanwhile Montoya did everything you could expect of him in Hartford if you were preparing him to be a starter. His first season he appeared in 40 games, posting a 23-9-1 record and a .907 SV%. His second season he was 27-17 in 48 games with a .914 SV%. His third and final season in Hartford he was 16-8-3 in 31 games with a .908 SV%.
Montoya was then traded to Phoenix, reunited with the GM who probably had a hand in drafting him, Don Maloney. While Maloney does make some odd trades, he is credited with helping create the Rangers current core of youngsters along with rebuilding the Coyotes. Even though he had some busts with the Islanders (The "Better Lindros") his time as GM produced a number of NHL players. Meanwhile, despite finishing out his year on the Rampage (the Coyotes AHL affiliate) strongly after the trade from the Rangers, it was quickly obvious that Montoya had hit a wall.
He went from being the outright starter in Hartford to backup and even third-string goalie for the Rampage. He got limited game time behind Josh Tordjman. In his 3rd season for the Rampage he played fewer games then Justin Pogge, who is mostly known as the guy the Maple Leafs decided to keep instead of Tuuka Rask. The Rampage have also been a middling team, finishing outside of the playoffs every year but Montoya's first on the team. Despite all of this, Montoya still showed a flash of what he could do, going 3-1 with a .925 SV% in 5 starts for the Coyotes in 08-09.
Al Montoya was probably out of North American hockey when his last contract was up. When the Islanders traded for him he had one of the worst SV% in the AHL. I think most of us considered the trade a move of absolute desperation. Yet you couldn't have asked for a better finish to the season than what Montoya managed to do. With the defense falling apart around him at the end of the season (remember the ATO #55s), he managed to at the very least keep the team in games.
Specifically:
- When Montoya's SV% was below .900 the Islanders went 2-3.
- When Montoya faced over 30 shots the Islanders went 2-5, but 4 of the losses were in OT.
- Montoya and Roloson both played 20 games last season, with Roloson facing more shots (629 - 585) and having more minutes (1206 - 1154), but Montoya giving up fewer goals (53 - 46). Part of that is due to the improved defense midseason compared to earlier in the year (AKA "Blame the Wiz").
Al Montoya was a superbly talented goalie who was drafted 6th overall for a reason. At every level he has had successes. It was only superbly bad luck that kept him from eventually making the Rangers. It's not everyday that the 7th round drops onto your lap a goalie who can basically will his team to the playoffs. Even more confusing is why Phoenix traded for Montoya, considering how they used him. Maybe there was some issue between him and the AHL coaches, but why the Rampage continued to play an undrafted FA as the full time starter for most of Montoya's AHL career is odd.
It seems even odder now, given that Phoenix is going into the season with Jason Labarbera as starter and Mike Smith as backup with Curtis McElhinney in the mix. While they could have lost Montoya to free agency, they most likely could have re-upped him for another year on a two-way deal. A 6th round pick is basically the equivalent of a little more then a bag of pucks, while a bag of pucks is preferable to a 7th round pick.
One man's trash is another's treasure. Which might as well be the rallying call for this team. Although Montoya has a small sample size when it comes to NHL play, there's nothing in his history that says he shouldn't be good at this level. It should be a given that he's going to play at least 40 games for the Islanders, which seems to be his games played threshold. With a one year contract in hand, he has every reason to be motivated to prove he deserves to be an NHL level goalie.
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rooting for al
and poulin the kid to tear it up this year, and by tear it up i mean tear dp’s contract up
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
by bob l on Aug 16, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
well played
I admit it, I laughed in spite of myself. You earned this rec.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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I was watching his last game last year vs Pitt
I believe he is under-rated. He is very technically sound. He stands and shrugs off high shots instead of going down for every shot. His “hybrid style” reminds me a lot of Roloson, with more controlled movement and less flopping. Don’t get me wrong, he is not at Roli’s level yet, but he has the tools. Seems like we have a very good goaltending coaching staff, so it is very possible that they can help him improve even more.
I never discount DP, since if somehow he can get through a season without an injury and get proper reps he can be a fine goalie. What scares me is that his “new style” is almost like a “stand up” goalie which is new to him. Unlike most I am hoping for a DP return to form and for him and Cubano to compete and push eachother.
Agreed on the amateur goalie scouting. I was impressed with his poise.
He stayed calm when there was chaos around the net, and when he gave up rebounds he didn’t overreact, he stayed square to the puck and let people shoot it into him.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
On DP's style
I think what your talking about is his only chance at success. He’s extremely athletic, and could probably adopt a Thomas-esque hybrid style and still be competent. On the other had, I dont think his knees/hips will ever allow him to play a pro-fly style like Poulins for an extended amount of time.
He should play more in the style of Brodeur
Marty isnt Mr constant butterfly, which is a good thing knee-wise.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 16, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah the butterfly
seems to wreak havoc on goalies knees and hips
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
Trust in your joints
Interesting. My first reaction was “Thomas’ style is way too athletic now for DP’s joints.” But upon further review, he needs to regain trust in pain-free joints no matter what style he uses. So if (big IF) he could regain that, Thomas-style might just be less wear and tear by avoiding the same repetitive motions on every shot that butterfly guys do?
I don’t know. Thomas is an active animal out there (who, of course, also had modern goalie hip surgery).
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Was thinking about this
the other day. With only 60 available spots at any given time, goalies have the toughest road to the NHL. Obviously more than 60 suit up during the year, but it is extremely difficult to crack a roster. Especially since goalies are often judged as individuals, yet are probably reliant on their teammates for success more than the other positions.
Tim Thomas was the exact guy I was thinking of. I’m not saying we have a record-shattering Vezina winner on our hands, but he really could pan out given the opportunity. And if he does, even with the success of Moulson and Grabner, he could end up Snow’s greatest coup yet.
I'm rooting for Montoya
But at the same time he seemed jittery at times. I am hoping that was just some nerves that he needed to shake off. I want to believe that there was something special in the small sample that we saw of Montoya. Hopefully he can join our group of cast aways as our goaltender for now and the future.
All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.
Don Maloney
Arguably 3rd best GM in Isles history.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 16, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
Not much to go on...
I’m assuming you mean that without a doubt our friend “Mr. Bowtie” Bill Torrey is #1 (obviously)
and Garth “Yes, I was a backup goalie the year before the owner tapped my awesome GM potential” Snow as a close second.
Don, while a really stand up guy is a distant third.
I won’t even begin to talk about “he who shall not be named”.
From the Penalty Box to the Blog Box! Check it out at Isles Official's Outlook!
by IslesOfficial on Aug 16, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, was being sarcastic
Neil Smith really only stopped by for cup of coffee, de-caf at that as TMC once said. But we drafted KO and Amac (Nolan gets credit here) under him, and that pretty much gets him the nod over the other guy who shall remain unnamed and is definately worst Isles GM ever.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 16, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I read the headline and jus thought
“he better be”
But this post makes me feel good that he’s a talented victim of circumstance. Good post Webby.
Now, got anything on Mike Mottau?
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Perked me up, too
Just reviewing this and going back through my posts on how I felt when he arrived, then how I felt after watching him perform, I see the potential there.
I’m not expecting him to be a world-beater, but simply NHL average quality would be an upgrade over what he had much of the year. Definitely don’t see him as a minor league guy (like Brian Elliottt).
Of course then I remember he hurt his knee at the WC…
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
the situation in G
our Goaltending is going to be critical to our success this year, and so, we should really do the following
evaluate each G in our organization with three things in mind
1 – future potential
2 – current likely contribution available
3 – contract status
and so, here’s the top 6 G-men we have in hand with status as above
Poulin – future possible star, retains most potential of anyone in our system – and so should be allowed to develop & heal from his injuries
solution – he should be the backup on the Islanders to start the year
Montoya – completely agreed, he could well be a serious player – at minimum a backup – and should get every chance as a result
Montoya should be our starting keeper on opening day, with Poulin playing 1 of every 3 games until either of them show that something should change
DiPietro – the contract has been a noose around the neck of this organization from the day it was signed
Ricky now needs to prove he belongs on this team – given the cap prudence we have shown, he should be bought out at once
He won’t be – and so he needs to show that he has earned a spot on the team – he needs to literally outplay everyone to make the 23 – if he doesn’t, cut him and let him earn a spot at Bridgeport
His future potential is limited and he is a distraction – turn this equation around – make him demonstrate why he belongs now and going forward or he’s out
Nabokov - I expect him t be cut midway through camp – no further comment necessary – I hope he proves us wrong, not expecting him to
Nilsson perhaps the wild card of all – will be interesting to watch his progress – but he won’t start in the NHL no matter what
Koskinen also retains prospects, give him some time and we’ll see
Bottom Line - RIcky needs to be moved aside for the good of this team now and going forward – let Montoya & Poulin start, RDP is the 3rd man out at best
This gives us a chance to compete without giving away cheap goals – that needs to stop – and allows us to see if this indeed is our pairing of the future now
Agree with most of this, although I don’t see how buying out DP and being on the hook for 2.25 for the next twenty years would be prudent.
I also think it would be almost impossible for Nabokov to play so poorly as to be cut halfway through camp, but we’ll see.
I think they’ll give DP training camp and the beginning of the season to see if he can ‘get it back’. But if he starts this season like he played last year, he needs to be put thru waivers and spend some time in the AHL. There’s no sense in buying him out, but they can bury him.
There’s no reason for him to submarine the effort of the entire team while he tries to shake years worth of rust off. Let him do it in the minors.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Right
Agree with the general eval approach (and how hard it will be to complete in a short training camp), and that a buyout simply isn’t an urgent thing right now. It’s not his salary/cap that’s holding them back, it’s him taking up a roster space if he can’t show he’s back to NHL level.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The G Spot
Congrats to Comrie for finally hitting the net.
Let’s let the boys play named Montoya and Poulin.
There goals against will leave us winners.
Please trade Nabokov after showcasing him
And get someone to keep RDP from straying from the crease.
Lets count the games before RDP is RIP on the bench with some malady.
Now if only RDP could protect the net.none of this would be necessary.
How about a pool of how many games each goalie will play?:
RDP – 20 games
Nabokov – 5 games (and get him out of here)
Poulin – 20 games
Montoya – 37 games
I Bet They won't buy out DP until New CBA
there has been discussion whereby teams will be given a window of opportunity to buy out a set number of players contracts without it counting against cap…amnesty or there-ever…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 16, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So if Isles were to buy Rick out now
… it wouldn’t matter if he retired from the NHL? The contract would still count against the cap for the length of the contract?
Whereas if Rick spends time in the AHL/NHL and eventually retires, his salary would no longer count against the cap upon retiring?
Is this correct? Does it matter if his retiring is deemed to be because of injury?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 16, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
If we buy him out, the hit stays.
If he retires, the hit goes because he’s an under 35 contract.
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by mikb on Aug 16, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'd like to see
Montoya and DP up here spliting time. I only say this because DP will get hurt when that happens bring up Poulin. Hopefully we can trade Nabby for a bag of pucks. And if DP is terrible put him in the minors. NO three headed monster again, I wanna see Haley and Martin up here even as reserves.
Constantly building for the future.
can't DP just get hurt in practice and save us the trouble of losing games?
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
by Pauly C on Aug 16, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
All he has to do is practice
And he will likely need to get his knee scoped again and miss 5-6 weeks. I don’t expect more than 20 games from DP. I just hope at some point he decides soon to give up playing cuz he knees are totally shot and there is no point trying to be a goalie anymore.
:(
Wow, thats mean.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 17, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Webby, I beg to differ
Anyone who watched Lawson and Koskinen in comparison to Montoya can tell you the talent level was night and day.
Experience level YES, Talent level NO. Miko has talent, but lacks experience. He was thrown into the wolves. As for Lawson, is quite a servicable goalie.
We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on Aug 16, 2011 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
My mistake, I forgot Mikko had that mystery injury hurting him last season too. I shouldn’t have said talent level.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Glad you posted this Web
This guy has proven he’s a gamer. His AHL stats suffered when he was forgotten about and the few times he did get a crack at the show he validated himself. My only negative observation: He sometimes sits a little deep in his paint when the play doesnt call for it, which has resulted in a few softies from the mid-slot. This may come from years of being yelled at to stay in his crease, as he used to play at the very top and beyond.
Good job and summary........
but I’m a liitle less optimistic than you about Montoya. First he is recoverying from an injury and a Goalie must be 100%. In addition he was playing for his survival as an NHL player at the end of the season. That desperation either shows the player has great potential or that he is playing over his head. I hope the former is true. I have a feeling that his first15 games will tell the story. and that he will be the #1 or a good go to guy. Otherwise I think he will end up in Bridgeport by mid season. I still think we need a top#1 goalie if we are to make a play-off run this season. The Goals against is the team’s biggest problem.
by altosax on Aug 16, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. The surgery thing is a big concern for me. Never want one of your goalies coming back from surgery and getting thrown into a full time role.
Anyone have a date he should be 100% and ready? I know previous reports said he’d be ready for training camp, but the recovery time schedule didn’t work right with the surgery recovery time last I checked.
Optimistic about the Cubano
Really looking forward to what his goalie mask will look this season. I wonder if it will be a bear in islander colors or a colorful cuban man smoking a cigar at a cards table…….Ok perhaps not, but it should be something interesting.
His play was solid after a few games especially considering he played very little this past season until he was picked up. It seems he has responded very well to what Suds and Dunham have told him. The talent is there, what is not there is the experience. I think this is his best chance to be a gamer and show that he has the skill set and tools to be the number one goalie he was drafted to be. For a goaltender 25 is nothing, if anything right on cue. I think with the confidence of the team and knowing he has a chance to be a number 1 goaltender this season he will do anything in his power to make that happen. This means, rehabbing and working out to the limit, listening to the goaltending coaches and showing improvement on the little things, as well as a great camp. If anything he is number 2 in the rotation.
For myself, I do not feel when he is net that a puck can come from anywhere and it will be a goal. There is more security with him in net and I am sure the team will also show more confidence as well knowing he is back there. The goalie is the anchor of the team and like a pitcher is viewed individually (as mentioned). I believe he can carry this team as he gains more and more experience.
I will pencil him in for 45 – 50 games this year. I think you can make the case of over marination in the farm system and not given the opportunity to come up and show his stuff. He probably could have made a difference 2 years ago, instead of being buried. I think its not too late to save one more, right Garth.
Nice post Webby...
It’s still a shakey situation because of the defense. If this team can keep the opposition to the perimeter and limit their offensive zone time all of their goalies will look better. You’d have to think that a healthy Streit and a more mature Hamonic and Wishart could really help with goalie stability as a whole. AMAC will be solid, but after that, the remaining players have a lot of questions to be answered, either on their recoveries, or thier maturity as NHL players. It would be great if Al comes into the season prepared to be the #1 goalie. That type of confidence will be important.
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Thanks for voting "YES" on Aug 1st... just not enough of you!!!
The D and goalie situations are not perfect, but...
… I think the forwards as a group will be better defensively. Adding Reasoner alone should help a lot. (I expect his line to instantly become a good shutdown line.) Now Isles have two effective shutdown lines (FnGO and Reasoner), a top line that is not bad defensively—and getting better as JT’s skating improves, and another line that should be okay-to-good defensively (Bailey’s). Just as we can expect the offensive numbers of the 20-28 year old forwards to improve overall, we can expect their defensive play to be better.
The forwards should score more, and they should prevent more scoring chances— on paper at least…. Only 46 days until Isles v. Bruins 15 mins from me in BPT! Can’t wait! (I expect about 50/50 Isles-Bruins fans because of the SoundTiger influence.)
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 16, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Late Bloomers Making Bank
Kiprusoff wasn’t a mainstay in the NHL until age 26, Niemi debuted at 25, Bäckström got his first legitimate shot in Finnish pro hockey at 25 and Roloson was 27 when Calgary gave him a chance. All have been extremely effective while playing in the NHL and Montoya (seemingly) has the intangibles to continue his success with the Islanders. Nice work, Snow.
And it goes back further than that too
Goalies have always taken longer to develop than forwards…. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on Montoya being the starter and posting a .912+ save %, unless Nabokov or Poulin steals the show and puts up good numbers as the #1.
But wouldn’t it be something if Rick miraculously reclaims the starting role and leads the Isles back to the playoffs? That would be a story for the grandkids.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 16, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
for all my ranting about Rick
that would be cool
by Cary K on Aug 16, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You wanna put money on that?
Oh I’ll take that bet in 5 seconds.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Even better:
I’ll stake my LHH reputation on it: Isles will get .912+ goaltending from Montoya this season so long as he plays 50+ games. And if another goalie takes the starter position away, that goalie will be .905+.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 16, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a lot of courage in a guy that has never played in the nhl regularly, never put up great ahl numbers in the past couple years, and is coming off a knee surgery.
I’m not saying it can’t happen, I just think it’s wishful thinking.
It's kind of a fun bet
33 goalies played 20 games last year (Montoya’s total) and met that threshold.
And damn, Johan Hedberg, Jose Theodore and Sergei Bobrovsky are on that list, while Martin Brodeur, Miikka Kiprusoff and Jaroslav Halak did not make the cut.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Aug 17, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's why I threw in the 50+ games qualifier
If his knee is not 100% by November, he probably doesn’t reach 50 games.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 17, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Where do you go from here, Web?
Overrated Nabokov, Underrated Montoya. Do I smell a Poulin piece?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 16, 2011 7:51 PM EDT reply actions
probably
but it’ll be a different way of looking at him then I looked at Nabby/Montoya
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Like
How the eff do we rate THIS guy?
by afrosupreme on Aug 17, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HE DOES NOT HAVE A LONG RESUME OF BEING AN OUTSTANDING GOALIE
I’m not sure how the hell you spin this as such. Especially:
Montoya has a long resume of being a talented, outstanding goalie.
His first season he appeared in 40 games, posting a 23-9-1 record and a .907 SV%. His second season he was 27-17 in 48 games with a .914 SV%. His third and final season in Hartford he was 16-8-3 in 31 games with a .908 SV%.
So he had two replacment level seasons and one average level season in the AHL to start. That’s not outstanding or even impressive. (Kevin Poulin’s .932 is outstanding (warning tiny sample size). Above .920 is impressive. Average or below, not so much.)
Despite all of this, Montoya still showed a flash of what he could do, going 3-1 with a .925 SV% in 5 starts for the Coyotes in 08-09.
Or he just got lucky and it was a total fluke. Five games is too small to evaluate a goalie by stats regardless of what they are.
Oh and the other AHL stats you neglected to add?
07-08, 14GP, .912 SV%
08-09, 29GP, .885 SV%
09-10, 14GP, .904 SV%
10-11, 21GP, .891 SV%
Al Montoya has a career AHL SV% of .904 on nearly 5000 shots (4930 to be exact). That is NOT A LONG RESUME OF BEING AN OUTSTANDING GOALIE.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
This is not to say he should be discounted. Montoya is an enigma who needs testing.
He certainly could be a good goalie, it’s totally possible. He deserves some sort of chance – probably starting as our backup goalie. But to claim his history shows that he clearly has what it takes to do so is totally false.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
HE DOES NOT HAVE A LONG RESUME OF BEING AN OUTSTANDING GOALIE
I’m not sure how the hell you spin this as such. Especially:
He was a full time starter as a Freshman at college, winning multiple awards while at UM
He had an incredible outing at the 03-04 WJCs, winning gold and being named tournament all-star
His play with the Wolfpack improved year to year and kept the relative level of his SV% from his 3 years of college.
Part of the point I was trying to make is that the Coyotes/Rampage totally misused him. Montoya played 40+ games from college freshman until the 08-09 season. His drop off in SV% coincides with him no longer starting a large number of games.
If you look at his college play, WJC play and his first two seasons with the Wolfpack, in a normal situation he would have probably gotten a chance in the NHL during his second season with the Pack. It was just a bit of bad luck that he didn’t get a chance with the Rangers, and the trade to the Coyotes/Rampage didn’t help him at all.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
College is NOT PROFESSIONALS.
He never had a high SV% as a professional. And it’s just as likely his SV% dropped off because he was poor, and his games played dropped as the teams realized he was playing poorly. What’s Cause and what’s effect?
WJC is irrelevant – It’s super long ago and a tiny sample size. College play was also too long ago. And he didn’t play that well with the Wolfpack….at all.
You are ignoring numbers because they don’t fit your narrative. It’s totally bogus and a complete sham.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
I am not “ignoring the data”
I was the person who originally pointed out that he was one of the worst goalies in the AHL when we traded for him.
We all know about how he’s struggled in the AHL the last few years, there’s a reason we got him for almost nothing.
But I was just curious as to how we get from point A to point B with Montoya. With Point A being a 1st round, 6th overall selection, and Point B being traded for a 6th rounder.
I think Montoya is a goalie who works out better when he plays more games.
Yes, while he had a strong run with the Rampage after being traded, he struggled out of the gate the following season. But by the end of the year when he started getting more starts again in Feb and March he put up a .905 and a .921 SV% in those months, a huge improvement over the .885 he had on the season going into those months.
The following year when he had 14 starts, he had 9 starts in September and had a .911 with a 4-5 record. He had 5 more starts in October, but apparently I was wrong. He Left game with upper body injury, November 24, 2009 so that’s why he didn’t appear again for the Rampage but had a short stint with the Coyotes to close out the year.
The injury is probably what did him in, as he started 09-10 off well.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
This isn't how I see it nor read it, and this is why
WJC is irrelevant – It’s super long ago and a tiny sample size. College play was also too long ago. And he didn’t play that well with the Wolfpack….at all. You are ignoring numbers because they don’t fit your narrative.
So it seems like you’re harping on one phrase then (“long resume, outstanding”).
But the point, as I saw it, wasn’t that his numbers have always been stellar and for some reason he hasn’t gotten a chance. That’s why struggling times are mentioned, and reasons fished for.
Here is the point (or a point): Small samples with goalies are notoriously tough. So what happens when the numbers are too limited to tell you something? Well you look at actual scouting. He wasn’t a starter in college because he had nice numbers — he was a starter because coaches who watched him said, essentially, “Hey, this kid can stop the puck.” Likewise why he was drafted so high (you don’t draft that high based on some nice stats), and likewise the WJC.
Every goalie, be he a late-discovered Thomas or a consecrated-at-birth Luongo, has to work on his game over time. If they’re talented and do the work, they might just make it. Some are unquestionably talented but burn out or stop doing the work (note: Usually Blues draft picks.) Did Montoya stop doing the work, or get easily discouraged because he was Hernik-blocked? And did he get discouraged again because he played well — I saw several of the games — in relief for Phoenix but then wasn’t rewarded? Maybe. (That would be a questionable character flaw, btw, but that’s hockey.)
It’s possible. That’s probably why you admit and I admit that Montoya might have something, we just can’t know for sure. I do know he impressed (and shocked, honestly) me down the stretch last year because of how I saw him play, not because of the numbers.
The whole Montoya situation raises debates like this in August precisely because it’s so curious: He doesn’t have a stellar stat history, yet he had scout/coach-observed talent and puck-stopping ability at multiple levels, including last spring. His stat range is so wild that I doubt it’s all just crazy swings in luck, so my intrigue is with how much was luck and how much was latent talent mixed with another chance and a decent goalie guide.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
taken by another extreme...
even Patrick Roy failed to win two cups in a row, his played dipped following years after cup wins…what is between the ears matters a lot..
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 17, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Most hyped goalies fail. At a far higher rate than other positions.
Which has to do with the unpredictability of the position and the worthlessness of small sample sizes in juniors/college. It’s just how things are.
Montoya has really not shown anything to show otherwise – he’s been mediocre to worse throughout the minors until he was good for the Isles last year. And that was in a tiny sample size for goalies – the odds are that it was a fluke and that he is who we thought he was.
I hope not. And the Isles should give him a chance. But you can’t make a statement like: “Long Resume of being an Outstanding Goalie” and then proceed to ignore most of his resume, including his most recent bits, because they don’t fit your narrative.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Tact
“a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense” – Merriam-Webster Dictionary
-
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
by Pauly C on Aug 16, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've already noted I don't have it at times.
You can stop pointing it out.
This is a major pet peeve of mine – ignoring data that contradicts your narrative. It’s really, really, bad form.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Still
Nobody calls you a game ruining jackass for bumming out the game threads. Chill a bit if you expect tact in return right?
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 16, 2011 9:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Errrrrrrrr, it's kind of bad form to START WITH ALL CAPS WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE
Or contradict, or whatever.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Aug 16, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
OK, sorry garik.
like I’ve said before, I’m statistically inclined myself, but sometimes I don’t mind ‘fooling myself’ to allow for some optimism going into the season.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
by Pauly C on Aug 17, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or it could have been that flaw in his technique that Sudsie worked out
If you both remember, apparently, Montoya was playing too far back on his heels which led to some flopping and craptacular play. I think he had a poor start and relief appearance before that was addressed. Sudsie put a different tilt/cut on his skate blades that leaned him more on his toes, and since then, he’s been much better. Whether that is a coincidence or fluke needs bearing out, but it was a hell of a difference both visually, and by the small sample size of numbers. I wonder if we can get an interview with him to try to figure out if he changed skates or something after the wolfpack.
Imagine your entire career going to shit because you had a 3mm difference in your skates?
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 16, 2011 8:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Listen, it can be a real improvement
I’m not saying otherwise.
I’m just saying to say he has a long resume of being an outstanding goalie is to be totally blatantly lying.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Okay, maybe long resume is wrong, but given his record, his performance in college, at the WJCs and at Hartford, he was ready to make a jump to the NHL level during his 2nd season at Hartford. What I was trying to say was that he was a blue chip prospect who added to his pedigree.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Who knows? Or his 2nd season at Hartford was a fluke
and it really wasn’t THAT great of a season.
He was formerly a blue chip prospect. That you can say. And that’s….about it.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Aug 16, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It just might be
which would seem highly unlikely, because you would think a goalie coach along the way would have tried to correct this issue before. Or perhaps since he was lost in the shuffle, nobody really coached him that well. (Meaning after College)
Interestingly
Not all teams employ full time goalie coaches. That piece on goalie prospects from “The Goalie Guild” noted that as a criteria for the rankings. I don’t know if the Rags or Yotes do, and I’m not sure how much the AHL guys have to those coaches either.
The other thing is that it wasn’t our g coach that found it, it was the “goaltending consultant” (whatever that means)
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 16, 2011 9:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dunham is the goalie coach, Sudsie is the goaltending consultant.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
ErrUmmphhht
It wasn’t Dunham that found it
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 16, 2011 9:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Edmonton did similar thing with Bill Ranford, won a cup
their scouts watched Ranford play for Boston, and felt they recognized a flaw that if correct, could make Ranford a much better goalie. They were correct.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 16, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm, no?
Ranford played basically worse for Edmonton than he did for Boston. He just you know, had a hell of a lot better team around him. There’s no evidence of any flaw corrected or anything.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/ranfobi01.html
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
i'd have to disagree with you Garik, and side with the Edmonton coaches of the day who said so and won a cup with Ranford
Plus Ranford was very effective with Edmonton, the guy won a cup and was nothing special with Boston — this is where you get into trouble obcessing on stats only, ignoring scouting and even history…the scouting, trading for Ranford and the end result is well known.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 17, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Ranford: traded to Edmonton - won two cups, was a Stanely Cup playoff MVP winner with second cup, and won a Canada cup as well
While an Oiler, Ranford:
won two Stanley Cups, a Canada Cup, and the 1994 Hockey World Championships while playing for Canada.
dealt on March 8, 1988 from the Boston Bruins with Geoff Courtnall to the Edmonton Oilers in exchange for goalie Andy Moog.
Following the trade, Ranford spent most of the next season with the Edmonton’s AHL Maine Mariners
“Ranford won his first Stanley Cup in 1988, as the backup to Grant Fuhr. However, in 1990 despite constant comparisons to the injured Fuhr, Ranford emerged as a first-rate goaltender, leading the Oilers to the Stanley Cup and winning the Conn Smythe Trophy (playoff MVP) in the process. It was the last Cup that the Edmonton Oilers dynasty would win. Ranford went on to play the next six seasons in Edmonton” Wikipedia
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 17, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect
“Edmonton Oilers dynasty”? Pffft, we all know that’s not true.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Aug 17, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i never said Edmonton had a Dynasty
actually i complained recently in a thread about sports writers calling Detriot (and Edmonton) dynasties, b/c the traditional definition is 3 straight cups.
The quote is not from me, but it was intended for an entirely different purpose, not to argue whether or not Edmonton had a dynasty winning 5 years out of 7, but never more then 2 in a row.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 17, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It's okay, I'm not hating
Just dropping truth bombs all over the place.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
Word to yer moms
Fab’s come to drop bombs
He’s got more truths
Than Neil Peart’s got toms
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
HE DOES NOT HAVE A LONG RESUME OF BEING AN OUTSTANDING GOALIE
Yes he does.
The line does not say A LONG RESUME OF BEING AN OUTSTANDING NHL GOALIE, you are reading things that are not there.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 16, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, the whole point was simply that he has shown himself to be "standing out" at other levels, and it has taken place over time.
Anything else, youre reading more into it than I would think was intended.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 16, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Slightly OT
When I was about five, me and my brother used to call Don and Dave Maloney, “Don Boloney”…because when your five, baloney=douchebag.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 16, 2011 8:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Required Reading for those on the Montoya bandwagon:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/2/23/2005954/the-importance-of-a-goalies-first-15-games
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
good article there
but even his numbers were drawn from a small sample size and really what is pointed out is that more experience or 2000+ shots will determine how a goalie is rated. At this point, since the Islanders are not picking any other goaltenders, I think they ride the best goalie in camp.
Montoya gets first shot
I think that’s painfully obvious. It’s either Nabokov or Rickey D for back-up, and I think Nabokov will do enough to get traded. I saw a lot about Poulin, biut he had a very serious knee injury and I’d bet he won’t be NHL-ready until close to mid-season. Those things are serious. So that’s more than enough time to see if Al has it and if Ricky can get it back. Either way, we should at least be okay in goal, and with a better and more experienced defense and returning players:
40-32-10 = 90 points. Just getting in.
I thought he had a dislocated kneecap?
Im not saying thats cake but its not like he destroyed his joint or something.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 16, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
During the Prospect Scrimmage
They said he was already skating and would be ready for training camp
this
They’ve always said he’d be good for the regular season.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Poulin
has nothing to learn in the AHL
he is our best prospect, and he should start the season as our backup with Montoya the starter unless camp / preseason performances dictate otherwise
Poulin has plenty to learn
I liked him, but it was obvious that he was playing well with a high raw ability level, but he needed to work on the finer aspects of his game. If you rush him into the NHL now, there will be long term holes in his game that will sink him.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
my point is
that the level of play in the AHL is two tiers down (KHL = 1 tier down)
Bridgeport plays a very concentrated schedule, last year against a bunch of mediocre teams
You just don’t develop your skillset as a keeper that way
Given Poulin’s injury history, he may well learn more with say 20 games as the primary backup with the Islanders next year while hopefully avoiding another injury
If he’s the primary keeper at Bridgeport, he’ll also get more simple wear & tear
If we do something like
Montoya 35-40 games
someone else 20 games (Nabbie? RDP? other??)
Poulin 20-25 games
that’s a season – and gives Montoya & Poulin the opportunities both require and the stability the team needs
RDP could get a run of 10 games but hopefully NOT to start the season – we need to get off to a good start for what will be an open and very competitive Altantic Division
Surgery
Poulin is coming back from major surgery which he has had on both knees. I would like to see him healthy first before throwing him into the lions den.
Better we evaluate Nabokov and RDP before bringing in the cavalry.
just to clarify
knee surgeries these days are rarely major. Most knee surgeries take about 30 minutes to an hour long. Rehabilitation time for a professional athlete is also much shorter in length then a normal joe on the street. Yes they have a higher goal in mind, but they also have better services available to rehab to their best abilities. The amount of rehab time for an injury like this is about 2 – 3 months.
The one thing I hope about the surgery is that they did not have to enlarge the groove the patella slides up and down. This would cause concern then, since it would increase the risk of this happening again. But it does not seem like this has been done.
Any concern that it's happened to both knees?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'd consider the KHL = AHL
Hell last offseason KHL teams signed Scott Munroe and Yann Danis.
"Since when did The Onion start doing hockey stories?" - Random Puck Daddy Comment
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
If the Russians ever got it together and joined with Sweden
that would be the start towards luring other countries such as Finland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Germany….and eventually creating a European pro-league that would be stable and rival north America. Heck, they could even expand into London…
Then the NCAA and the CHL could merge, having Canadian Universities merged with city teams, NCAA adding more games, etc…
rant for the day
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 18, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If Al brings it like he did last season...
There is not conceivable excuse for him not to be our #1 goalie. None. Nada. Zilch.
Make Glass Ricky a scout or something, I don’t care. Hell, pay him just to sit on his ass at home and watch TV for all I care, but if Al and Poulin are bringing it like they did last season, they should be our #1 and #2.
Jeff Carter to Columbus? Wait, I've seen this one before, it was called Shanahan to Hartford. Advice? Don't buy a Carter jersey.
Ricky
make him a player/coach
he plays only if needed or after proving he’s ready
or send him to K-zoo
I gues it could be a statistical anomaly
But I find it weird that we had we had 6 goalies play, and two sets of them had virtually identical sv% #s
Rollie/Montoya/KP all had .920
DP/Lawson had .890
Koskinnen had .870
And Mikko was hurt a but and wasn’t playing well at BPT and came in as low man with 4 starts. That means we got 45 games with a .920 average goaltending, and 37 games average sub .890. That disparity is gigantic and if a team averages 33 shots a game against is basically a goal a game with those guys in net.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/nyi/stats
Two things I think about this:
*Maybe there is a clear cut tier for this team between AHL/NHL caliber goaltending.
- Maybe our D wasn’t that bad and that’s why we haven’t seen a deal yet.
It may not be possible for any of the individuals to replicate .920 over a full season, but if we can close the gam in the disparity to .915/.907, we will be in decent shape.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 17, 2011 8:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
920 guys
went 19-20-7. Obviously the bulk of the losses were Rolo’s during the losing streak (when I’m not sure Hasek in his prime would have made a difference). If we turn half those Ls to Ws you’re looking at 24-15-7. That would be good times.
by afrosupreme on Aug 17, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah well during that streak
Didn’t the team only score like 30 goals or something? The offense was the problem then. Which really makes it insane that we finished with such a high goals for.
It either is showing us that young teams have problems with consistency, that GF and GA are kind of interdependent or both. We need balance dammit!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 17, 2011 12:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yea
You know when you look at the season as a whole, improving goals against seems to be most important (and obviously since we had a negative goal differential it is a concern). But when you think about the losing streak really being because of poor offense, and the losing streak costing us more than anything else during the season … well it’s a more complicated story.
In that stretch when we went 1-20 we had 36 goals and gave up 51 (not counting the 1 against awarded to SJ for the SO win) for a -15 on that stretch, nearly half of the -35 on the season. Couple that with the -7 when we went 1-7 at the end and you’re 2/3 there.
So yes, consistency is a huge issue, although I don’t think we’ll have it again this year. Both streaks were in no small part due to injuries and our lack of depth. I think we have more players than can step in if needed and stem the tide against streaks like that happening again.
Related to this
I also think about that when I remember the offensive splurge in the second half, including a few refreshing blowouts. Just wondering where the true “norm” for this lineup is and it’s presumably improving young forwards.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Right
where this team really lies is probably somewhere in the middle of their best and worst play.
presumably improving young forwards
This made me think about all the talk about our goals against last year. We all have presumed it could be fixed with a combination of defensemen/goalies. But there is no reason to think that if our forwards improve defensively as well, the overall team defense could improve again. Last year we really only had 1-1.5 defensively effective lines (FnGO and, at times, the third line). This year it could easily be 3, possibly all of them if the top line can generate defense via their offense.
by afrosupreme on Aug 18, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Our D was AWFUL the first half of last season
No matter how well the D did in the second half, that shitty first half really weighed them down. The second half really wasn’t that bad for our D all around (emergence of AMac-Hamonic as a top pair, increasingly better play of Wishart and Hillen, the Jurcina Anomaly), and this is why I’m sure Garth is confident about our D heading into next season. A healthy Streit is already better than anything we could’ve picked up on free agency and will be a huge boon to our D corps.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
Further to the debate about Poulin
people have likened him to Patrick Roy to some degree
who only ever played 1 AHL game
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4688
the need for AHL time spent by a keeper is a myth and potentially counterproductive
montoya
thank you for writing exactly what i was thinking………………montoya is a very good goalie and snow is a very good GM….. lets go islanders baby!!!
by LETS GO ISLANDERS!!! on Aug 17, 2011 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
at the risk of epic abuse
If he can get healthy (and i know its if with a capital “I” ) Rick is by far the most talented goalie in the system. So while i share all of the frustration of the last 3 seasons (which i am pretty sure he feels too) my hope is to see him get 45 games and have montoya or nabakov as the back up. If that happened, i think it would be a playoff year. Btw, “nabokov the back up” kind of flows, no?
by randyboyd on Aug 17, 2011 9:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think I disagree with all of this
I’ve never thought DP was a good goaltender though. I can see the talent, but his focus and performance isn’t consistent enough for me to anoint him as having more talent than any of our prospects.
I’m gonna be so pissed if the remove that goddamn trapezoid. It’s the only thing that keeps him remotely close to the net.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Aug 18, 2011 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
'twas a long time ago
but I keep going back to the year that he got hurt in that cursed all star skills competition. I was skeptical about his focus, consistency, etc but that year he seemed to put it all together. He was sharp, cut down on the bad goals and was carrying the team to the playoffs. He was so bad after the break that it was obvious he was severly injured.
that RDP was really an exceptional goaltender. He was more than holding his own that year in the tri-state battle with the King and Marty. If he were ever to regain that level, even his vapid wanderings would be minimized by his skill. If he were ever to regain that level, there would really be no discussion about Al Montoya (who i happen to like very much and hope that he continues where he left off last season since, realistically, the pre injury RDP is probably not coming back.)
by randyboyd on Aug 18, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I never understand people saying DP was never a good goaltender. His 06/07 season was excellent.
DP in that year was top 3 in save percentage among goalies that started 60gms (with Brodeur and Luongo) while the isles were the 4th worst team in the NHL in shots allowed per game that year. That season from DP was nothing short of excellent. It is only 1 season, but the man still showed he has the abilities and skills to be great there.
one thing for sure
Brodeur is not getting any younger
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 18, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for risking epic abuse!
That’s always welcome around here, even on days when we align in a choir.
He might be/have been the most athletic goalie in the system. With Poulin coming along, I’m not so sure about most talented.
Meanwhile, I was thinking about what Al has that DiPietro doesn’t, and I think it might be that Montoya listens. Or at least he listened to coaching last year, with his career on the line.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You wonder
whether an extended stint in the AHL would finally drive this point home for DP. The team obviously screwed up anointing him the 15 year savior. Maybe a little humility would go a long way.
by afrosupreme on Aug 18, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
EARTH TO THE LIGHTHOUSE
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID ON ANOTHER POST!!!!!!
WITH THE STORY MONTOYA CARRIES HE IS THE SAVOIR IN NET!!!!!!!
The will is inside.
We got Klingons, Vulcans in comments
Now there are Earthlings around here too?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
