Hunter-Rolston Trade Coda: Devils to Buy out Trent Hunter
by Dominik on Aug 1, 2011 2:00 PM EDT
in Roster Manoeuvres in the Dark
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PrintNote: Nassau Coliseum referendum discussion continues in the previous thread, but we thought hey, here's some actual hockey news to chew.
This would be why, whether it's the prolifically vocal Dean Lombardi or the cryptically short Lou Lamoriello or the unwaveringly to-the-script Garth Snow, you can't take GM-speak strictly at face value.
After telling beat writer Tom Gulitti last week that "cap space was not an issue" in the Devils' decision to trade Brian Rolston (on an unescapable over-35 contract) to the Islanders for Trent Hunter (on a smaller cap hit and buyout-able contract), Lamoriello has ... put Hunter on waivers with the intention of buying him out. Everyone can read the financials of this situation from a mile away, but GMs have their philosophies and their reasons. (Lombardi probably thinks talking is good for PR and fans. Lamoriello and Snow probably believe their players' interests and info comes first.)
Pity Hunter in this situation, who Gulitti reported was flown into New Jersey for a physical last week (a necessity for the trade, but still. Rough summer, all while coming off injury.).
After going through those hoops, he's now almost certain to be a man without a team. Coming off MCL surgery that cut his 2010-11 season short after 17 games, Hunter told reporters his knee is "100 percent," but now he has to hope, in August, some team will take a chance on that knee and his skating -- most likely on a new deal or tryout contract. It's a swift fall from NHL security to tryout candidate.
If Hunter clears waivers, he'll be an unrestricted free agent. (So yes, to answer your question, technically the Islanders could re-sign him.) P.S.: The Devils are doing the same with Colin White. I'm sure it has nothing to do with cap space.
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Odd
Obviously we all knew the devils motive for trading Rolston for Hunts, I just didn’t think they would be this obvious about it. And what would be the harm with having Hunter come to their (The Devils) camp? We are talking about a guy still relatively young who was a strong two-way player capable of decent production given adequate even strength and power-play ice-time. Was there an incentive in cutting him loose this early?
It’s neither unusual nor illegal, so secrecy isn’t required.
And what would be the harm with having Hunter come to their (The Devils) camp?
The rationale against it goes something like this:
- The forward positions are largely already solidified, and bottom-6 forward is not a position of need on the team
- Lou has made numerous references lately to “budgetary” concerns, suggesting that Vanderbeek, et al, are less amicable to spending to (and beyond) the cap than they have been in the past
- Buying him out frees up some cap space now for a potential trade/replacement for White
Didn't mean to imply it was illegal or something that required 'secrecy'
Why would it be illegal and what in my post made you think I was implying that? What I found odd or unusual was that less than a week ago Lamoriello made the statement about the trade not having anything to do with cap-space, suggesting to me that he was being a little secretive about his motives. Why not just be truthful, the trade makes a lot of sense for the Devils just from that perspective? Releasing Hunter after denying the trade had anything to do with the cap perplexed me to as why Lamoriello ever made the statement to begin with. I am probably missing something here but that was all that I found odd or unusual, I know how these things work and I knew why the Devils made the trade to begin with.
Why would it be illegal and what in my post made you think I was implying that?
Stating that you didn’t think they would be “so obvious about it” implies that it’s below-board and that it’s expected they be less obvious.
As to Lou being secretive… that’s his wont. He constantly says nothing or something misleading or even something contradictory. When news of these buyouts broke ILWT exploded in rampant speculation about possible trades, until someone pointed out that he said they were done for budgetary reasons, suggesting it’s more about saving money than making room. It drives us crazy trying to figure out what’s going on in his head sometimes.
OK, I see I was misleading
I meant not be so obvious to fans, not the league officials or anything like that, because based on his statements he seemed like he was trying to cover up his motives a bit, but the timing of the buyout seemed to confirm them.
It’s cool. It’s just Lou-speak. Sometimes I think he plays his cards so close to his vest that he forgets what he’s holding.
Well said
I think its pretty well endemic of all sports owners and general managers; playing the public relations game, keeping fans happy, not giving anything away. I can rememb all the times the Islanders traded away elite players for scraps and being told that salary had nothing to do with it and that it is for the good of the team. In this particular case I think it was a very prudent move for the Devils but many fans don’t know much about the team finances and cap issues and only want to see trades that immedietly upgrade the team, so Lou probably made those statements with this in mind
and thanks for clarifying why
the devils bought him out now instead of bringing him to camp. It does make a lot sense now knowing that their bottom six is largely solidified and they are looking to bring in someone to replace White. Personally I don’t think Hunter has much left in the tank. I figured there would be no harm in letting him tryout for a roster spot but if they are looking to make moves before then the buyout makes mroe sense
No problem.
In all honesty, your guess is as good as mine when it comes to what Lou has planned. Could be something big, could be nothing at all. My hope is that he replaces White who, while a favorite scapegoat of some, was still serviceable. His cap hit was, while perhaps a slight overpayment, still affordable, so waiving him doesn’t make sense to me unless he has something else cooking that leads to replacing him with someone better. That, combined with turning Rolston’s $5m cap hit into $633k sure seems to point at another deal happening… but who knows?
this is the same team that last year would dress 5-6 players LESS than what would normally be a full bench due to cap restraints.
that's not exactly how it happened
They had a full roster, but wound up with either injuries or suspensions, and couldn’t fit any call-ups under the cap. They played one game with 15 instead of 18 skaters.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Trent Hunter
I believe that the Devils fear that Hunter will lose some speed coming off MCL surgery. Not a good scenario going forward.
I figure that was the Isles' fear too. It was certainly mine
I’d hope some team takes a chance on him now at a low veteran/tryout rate. If he can regain his form from before the injury, I think he’s actually a useful bottom-six forward — just not worth the $2M teams would have had to eat.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
He's already lost a step or two
And we’ve seen his production decline steadily over the years as an Islander, although playing time was a factor there. I think it’s a given he won’t be the player he was in his first couple of years on the Island but he was always a heads-up defensive player and I think could still have some years left at a reduced rate.
Nice caption.
If you don't vote yes on August 1st I will personally make sure that Jay Jacobs comes to your house and tell you how he is going to convince Wang to stay in Nassau County. You get to clean up after the unicorns...
I try to be juvenile without being blatantly juvenile
But I am of the belief Monty Python never gets old.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
75% of that movie was hilarious
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Gotta ask
Did Botta call Lou Lamoriello a liar about salary issues, the way he did with Garth Snow?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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by mikb on Aug 1, 2011 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Perfectly orchestrated by Lou...
He basically got rid of $3M of salary cap space, and only has to pay $850K for two years.
“How did your garage sale go?”
“Pretty good. I got somebody to take that fridge out off my hands”
“The broken one that you offered to me for free last year? Whaddya get for it”
“the guy gave me a lamp he had in his trunk… the fridge doesn’t work and it will cost him $100 to haul it home, and he says he has plenty of space”
“Is that the lamp you got?”
“Yeah”
“Why is it in the garbage”
“Not worth buying a bulb”
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Can't see it quite that way
Rolston actually played productive NHL hockey last year — AFTER he was exposed to waivers, which of course was BEFORE the Isles needed to add short-term salary like that. Hunter did not and is still an obvious question mark. Even throwing money and cap needs aside, it was a (marginally) productive trade from the Isles’ end, while the Devils had to accept a downgrade just for the privilege of buying out the new guy.
Still looks like just a marriage of convenience rather than one side or the other doing something brilliant.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Should we sign him for the 4th line?
I think we should at least call him to camp. He’s big, he hits like a mad man, plays solid 2-way hockey when healthy. With how he played while he was injured last year, I think he could definitely be a valuable 2-way 4th liner. He at least deserves a tryout. I don’t think he has solid/above-average 3rd line 2-way play in him, but I think he could be a great asset on the 4th line.
Why
…and this works for Dom’s response to my post as well. I’d rather see Rhett, Haley, Nino, Martin, Ullstrom share those bottom six minutes with Comeau, Bailey and Reasoner. For this to really work Rolston has to be productive in Parentau’s role. If that’s what this play was all about then there is a SLIVER of hope… otherwise you are paying $5M for PT bottom six forward… and are going to make a 25 year old guy who scored 24 goals from a bottom six role FIGHT for HALF that.
Just doesn’t seem right… But it’s still insignificant
As far as Hunter goes… if he was still there he could have fit in to some limited role until he proved himself or didn’t. I wouldn’t go out of my way to get him back. He hits often, but not hard. He plays good defensive zone hockey, but it limits his offensive contributions because of his lack of speed.
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I do not understand the insistence of harping on Rolston making $5M. No matter what, the Isles had to make moves to ensure the Cap Floor was reached. To be able to do it while upgrading (over Hunter) and bringing in a capable defensive forward who can QB your PP AND shipping out someone who the Isles had/have some health questions about while taking a roster spot … just a good move for the Isles.
And we owed Hunter 4 million
So for an extra million, you upgraded to a serviceable middle 6ish PP point man who is only going to tie up that roster spot for 1 year instead of two.
This IS the year.
And the $2 million for Hunter next season
…would likely have been overpay for Hunter. (Sad to say.) So Isles pay an “extra million” this coming season, but when you consider next season’s $2mil, it at least makes up for that extra million this season.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 1, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
True cost of rolston is only 1 mil
can’t be accused of changing my views, as i stated hunter, in my view, was a none factor prior to this trade…that 2 mil due hunter this coming season, and an additional 2 mil next season, might as well have been thrown in the fire for all it was going to help the Isles. Snow gets Rolston for the difference of 1 mil, and gets to move 2 mil of dead money off the 2012-13 cap hit, and move it to the 2011-12 cap hit…works well all the way around, prepares for when JT will be up for contract….isles add another bottom 6er, which was needed.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 1, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I look at it based off his last year performance.
He played injured last year, against 3rd line+ overall competition, had a corsi ~as good as Comeau’s, on the verge of a 165hits season, and was on the verge of a 5goal/19pts season in heavily 4th line duty. And it’s not like he’s ancient, he’s just been battling injuries. I think he could excel in a 4th line role if he still has some mobility. His numbers while playing last year injured sure as heck show he could have gotten it done last year, so why not just throw him into the role this year? Rakh doesn’t have the physical factor and might not be 2-way ready yet for nhl hockey(size is a factor), cizikas “might” but probably needs ahl seasoning, ullstrom hasn’t totally shown himself offensively capable and nhl ready, and dibo is just an agitator. Would I mind any of them in a 4th line role? No. Do I think any of them could be better in a 4th line role then Hunter next year? No.
Worse comes to worst, he isn’t effective as you say and he gets thrown on waivers or loses his spot in camp. It’s really not a terrible thing to sign him and then waive him if we have to. He’s bled orange and blue and wouldn’t cost us much of anything.
And the Rolston money thing makes no sense, we needed to spend the money somehow anyway. We are a cap floor team and Comeau hasn’t proven himself a reliable 20goal scorer yet.
I still think
no matter what they say you see Rolston on the fourth line with Reasoner. And then Haley/Martin/Rhett/Martin/Ullstrom fight for that last spot. I think we can agree that Martin and Haley would have benefited from another year in the AHL. That year could be this coming one.
Of course this assumes Nino makes the squad and slots in with Bailey and Comeau. I’m not sold Nino is an Islander this year. If he’s not then you probably see Rolston with Bailey and Comeau and Reasoner holding down the fort with two young guys.
I don’t think it matters one bit how much Rolston gets paid, no matter where he plays. In fact I like his 5 million because it makes sending Nino back to juniors a real possibility if he needs it. I would have hate to have seen the cap floor informing that decision in any way.
I really don't want Martin in the minors. He is the most physical-hitting forward in the nhl, that's something I want on our team, especially with how weak on big physical players we are.
The rest of the situation, it’s pretty interesting. People say garth has another deal coming. It’s likely for a top 4 d-man, and I get the feeling that it’s gonna involve trading bailey or comeau or a good forward prospect for one. But who knows. I don’t want garth to move any of them for a mediocre top 4 guy, so if one is leaving expect a nice return. We’ll see.
Yea
I’m not convinced there is another deal coming, and for a dman is the only thing that makes sense.
But (I think) I’m with you. I imagine both Comeau and Bailey have more value to the Isles than they do on the trade market (Bailey especially). Obviously Nino or Strome could land something big, but it would have to be substantial for them to go.
I don’t know, maybe PAP has some good trade value, but again would have to be packaged with a top prospect to get something more than mediocre.
Per Martin, I really, really like his game. That said I don’t think a year in the AHL would hurt him. He’s a little lacking in the awareness department sometimes (though he definitely improved).
Here's how I see it...
… but camp could change everything.
MM-JT-(PAP, KO, BR)
MG-FN-(PAP,KO,NN,BR)
BC-JB-(MM, BR,RR)
(MM,NN)-MR-(RR,MH,BR)
Unless there is a trade of Comeau or Bailey the top three LW/C pairings should stay the same as last year. PAP, KO Nino and Rolston will compete for the top three RW spots. Nino with JB and BC will not work. He needs to be with either Reasoner or Frans. Most likely Reasoner and Martin. He then has defensive coverage and PROTECTION.
Haley and Gillies will get some time… maybe kabanov can earn his nine games. But if KO and PAP have good camps and there are no top four defenders out there I really don’t see Rolston fitting in.
This is how I think it shakes out.
MM-JT-PAP (I wouldn’t be surprised if Nino wins this spot around March.)
MG-FN-KO (This is such a balanced line it really needs to be together. I’d also like to see KO offer some protection for the other two)
BC-JB-(BR,RR) Rolston will start here, Rhett will finish here)
MM-MR-NN Nino will have to prove himself with 6-8 minutes a night. Martin will offer early protection.
If they are fully healthy at the deadline they’ll be fishing with PAP, Rolston, Comeau or Bailey to make room for Strome and/or Kabanov next year.
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I really don't see a problem with what you described.
And Benhasna and others have said that we could split time between the 2 bottom 6 lines because of the talent we have, which isn’t a bad idea at all, and give the hotter line more ice time when need be.
And there is no way in hell nino is gonna get as little as 6-8mins/gm no matter what line he is on. Martin averaged 11min/gm, Sim 11.5min/gm, Konopka 10min/gm. At worst I see Nino getting 11-12min/gm, and that’s without PP time(which he will at worst get 2nd PP unit mins), so expect Nino getting “at least” 13-14min/gm if he’s makes the team.
I'm still a little perplexed
As to why people keep mentioning Rahkshani as a candidate for the Isles’ roster this year.
by JPinNYC on Aug 1, 2011 9:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not going to respond twice...
… but Rhett is the most NHL ready RW in the organization not in the NHL.
Rhett has a professional year under his belt.
He played 4 years of college hockey playing against 18-23 year olds.
He captained Denver in his senior year.
He was an AHL Rookie All-star last year.
He will get a chance to play in the NHL this year.
He’s not some kid that just got plucked out of juniors. He’ll be a good call up this year, and might surprise with solid offensive output.
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personally i don't like Rahk
i don’t think he ever makes the show, actually, i think he is very overrated
by CanadianIsleslifer on Aug 2, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still a little perplexed
As to why people keep mentioning Rahkshani as a candidate for the Isles’ roster this year.
by JPinNYC on Aug 1, 2011 9:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man, I'm not used to having Rolston around
I had the hardest time trying to discern who BR was.
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 2, 2011 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
When I looked at CapGeek today, I seriously thought I was on the wrong page.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The only thing
I don’t love is Nino on the fourth line. Mostly because I think he would generally fail there. I don’t think Reasoner would provide the type of center he needs.
Now I see your point about not wanting him on the third line, but I think Bailey showed he is pretty responsible in his own end last year. And I think having a wing like Nino could help Bailey a lot. I admit it would be a risky move, but it’s something I would certainly give a shot to click in camp. Ideally I’d like to see
MM-JT-PAP
MG-FN-KO
BC-JB-NN
(MM,MH,RR)-MR-BR
And I agree, if Nino makes the team, I’d hope he finds his way to the top line sooner than later, and PAP slots onto the third.
I could see your alignment...
…I lean towards the balanced “pairings”.
JB is still finding himself. I think that either Rolston, KO or PAP would help him find the offensive side of his game more than Nino… especially in a rookie campaign.
Nino probably fair better with Nielsen than Bailey, but Reasoner may give him an on-ice coach in a 3B role.
This SHOULD BE the best team they’ve put on the ice since the 90’s. It will take soem time to see who plays best with who… so, there’s a good chance we’ll see both our configurations and many more.
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No, he's terrible
He’s out of the league. Not a bad guy, of course, but that’s just how the bis goes…
Yeah
But does he “suck”?
This IS the year.
by since70too on Aug 1, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's no room for him.
Seriously, where would you put him? Forwards on the roster:
JT-PAP-MM
KO-FN-MG
Bailey
Comeau
Rolston
Reasoner
You’ve got two more (since Gillies will be the occasional enforcer), with Matt Martin essentially a near lock to make the team…so he plays instead of Haley? Eh.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Why did they have Hunter take a fitness test, then?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 1, 2011 3:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
But someone mentioned that Devs could waive the fitness test. Is that inaccurate?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Aug 1, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
To accept a trade, you could waive that condition
But to buy a player out, I believe he needs medical clearance because you can’t buy out a guy who’s hurt.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'm a big Hunter fan and am grateful for all his work which the Islanders
Which is why I’d like to see him sign with a contender and go deep in the playoffs before he retires. Sign for the minimum, take Draper’s or Modano’s spots on the Red Wings and win a Cup.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent Paul Kraus during Palffy's contract holdout in 1998.
by PGI on Aug 1, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
anybody read nabokov's B.S. story? newsday.com
by Lakewood Islander on Aug 1, 2011 6:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
somekind of yarn that he hadnt skated in 6 weeks and wouldnt have been able to help the isles in their “fight for a playoff berth”.whereas detroit had the luxury of being able to wait for him.fact check?
by Lakewood Islander on Aug 1, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, that's the ticket!
If you don't vote yes on August 1st I will personally make sure that Jay Jacobs comes to your house and tell you how he is going to convince Wang to stay in Nassau County. You get to clean up after the unicorns...
Best. Excuse. Ever.
Essentially I wasn’t ready to play, but it was okay because Detroit was willing to wait for me to get ready because then it would be playoff time and they’d be totally cool with just trusting a rusty goalie with their playoff fortunes or at least putting my name on the Cup for an attendance prize which is all I ever wanted anyway.
Alright, he didn’t put it that way, but that’s how it read to me. My god, he even said he wished communication had been better between him and the Isles. You HUNG UP THE PHONE!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Aug 2, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In russia
Phone hangs up you
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 2, 2011 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Did we lose again?
Hunter said he was just finishing his check.
by Turgeon1992 on Aug 1, 2011 9:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
probably,says the natural pessimist/met fan
by Lakewood Islander on Aug 1, 2011 10:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
