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Islanders Grades: John Tavares, coming along just fine, thanks

Note: After taking care of the RFAs (Okposo here, Bailey there, Comeau yonder) and about-to-leave UFAs (Hillen here, Martinek there, Zeke yonder) over the last couple of months, it's time to weigh in with more report cards on the Islanders who are still part of The Program. That begins at center, with John Tavares; check his stats and vote in the poll after the jump.

John Tavares was touted so much even before his draft year began that the opportunity to disappoint was high. Unlike some prospects who go into their draft year ranked #1, Tavares held that ranking throughout the year and the team with the #1 pick followed through to keep him there.

While some already declare a "re-draft" of 2009 would go differently, that's never much concerned me. What does concern me: Is Tavares progressing, working on the vulnerabilities in his NHL game while continuing to score as hoped? So far, so good.

Star-divide

I think most fans believe -- certainly I think they should believe -- that Tavares, despite his junior scoring records, was never expected to be a "generational superstar" on the level of some recent #1 picks the NHL has been blessed with. He wasn't supposed to take over games at both ends from his first game like some such Crosby, and in reality he will always need help for his team to make the most of his strengths.

But what I hoped of Tavares in June 2009 is, so far, what I think I'm seeing, with a few caveats. I expected his "sniper" shot from distance would be more lethal than it's been; I had no idea his passing and vision would be so sublime. His skating, which improved last year (or maybe "strength on his feet"), keeps him from being an end-to-end dynamic force. His ability to find quiet areas and set up temporary "offices" around the net has translated to the NHL level, whether it's somehow finding openings on the doorstep for tap-ins or somehow carving out space for lethal passes from behind the net.

Outsiders assume Matt Moulson's success must be due to Tavares, when in reality those of us who watch closely know Moulson has been a better two-way player than Tavares thus far. But when you look at some of the passes to -- and attention drawn away from -- Moulson that Tavares provides, you know Moulson probably doesn't get to back-to-back 30-goal seasons without benefiting from his buddy's special attributes.

 

The Stats


GP G A P +/- PIM PPG QoC TOI PPtoi PKtoi ShtSh%FO
2009-10 - John Tavares 82 24 30 54 -15 22 11 4th/12 18:00 4:08 0:03 186 12.9 47.5%
2010-11 - John Tavares 79 29 38 67 -16 53 9 2nd/10 19:15 3:30 0:10 242 11.9 52.5%

To review 2010-11 in brief: Tavares saw more overall ice time per game, less powerplay time overall (though still a lot), got off more shots in fewer games, and grabbed more goals and won a higher percentage of his faceoffs.

Of note, he did all this while facing stronger competition overall than his rookie year. Both Islanders head coaches, Scott Gordon and Jack Capuano, continued to get him out there as much as possible in offensively advantageous situations -- his first line with Moulson and P.A. Parenteau all received ~55% offensive zone starts, which is a healthy 10 percentage point difference over any of their forward teammates.

His Corsi Rel was also appropriately high within his team, behind only Parenteau and Corsi maestros Frans Nielsen and Michael Grabner (who can start a shift getting shelled in some World War I trench and finish it parading down Broadway with ticker tape accolades). Overall, signs are pointed in the right direction since amid this context JT's production increased -- as you would expect it would for a 20-year-old sophomore, but especially for one as dedicated to improving his game as Tavares is.

Also of note: Tavares did not go through a lengthy slump like that long winter drought he suffered during his rookie year. That 2009-10 slump, when Gordon actually limited his ice time on some nights, may explain how his overall ice time increased by over a minute per game this season. Because Gordon certainly relied on Tavares heavily when things were going right.

 

Gratuitous Video Clip

This wasn't from this past season -- it was from his rookie year, when he set up "Matt Coulson" in Vancouver -- but it's representative of some great setups we saw from JT this past year. I'd have looked harder for highlights, but...I'm on the beach.


...and here's one that's actually from this past season, though it's still not the pass I was looking for:


The Poem/Lyric

If you're new to our LHH Islanders Report Cards, I regret (not really) to inform you that it's a tradition to have to sit through (or skim past) some sort of poem or lyric for the report card subject of the day. Lucky you though, I'm on the beach this week so I couldn't come up with one...

... oh wait! Pilsner Urquell speaks!

This should be the poem of Tavares
But this writer is at the beach
And can only think as far as
The cooler within arm's reach

In the sun he dreams of seeing
Strome or Nino on JT's wing
But alas, for the time being
He must grab another drink

By reading this you're the type, it seems
Who's stuck at work this week
So kindly tell us your Islander dreams
Like the wingers for JT you seek

Note: I'm not really in the "Tavares needs new wingers" camp. But who doesn't imagine which Islanders prospects might one day earn the role?

 

The Grade

Either you all have been clicking "refresh" way more often than normal or we've attracted a few more regulars to the site with last month's draft and this month's general free agency what-not. So if you're new to our "Report Card" exercise, it's geared around us talking about the season that was regarding a specific player, thinking about what we expected from that player back in training camp, and hazarding an assessment on how well he measured up to those expectations.

Please vote your "grade" for Tavares's 2010-11 season based on the preseason expectations you had. Use comments to discuss any aspect of his play, his future, or your surviving blowing things up last night.

Poll
Based on your preseason expectations, how do you grade the 2010-11 season of John Tavares?
10 - More peachy than a week on the beach
45 votes
9
61 votes
8 - Fantastic, but it's still a public beach
233 votes
7
106 votes
6 - Met expectations + (relaxing, zero rain)
74 votes
5 - Met expectations - (relaxing, a little rain)
17 votes
4
1 votes
3 - Was hoping for a little more dominance/production/whatever - (they let other people on my beach?)
6 votes
2
0 votes
1 - I hate everything, including the beach, sunsets, cool breezes, and hockey
2 votes

545 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 122 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Funniest LHH line of the year
and Michael Grabner (who can start a shift getting shelled in some World War I trench and finish it parading down Broadway with ticker tape accolades).

On Tavares, we have an uber-creative Center (check) who draws players to him (check), when players aren’t drawn to him, he finishes (check), durable (check), works hard (check), and represents the franchise oh so well (check).

While I would have liked to see 30 goals, it seemed as if there were more nights this year that he was an unstoppable force then last year = growth.

He gets an 8 from me, as I am completely confident that he can (and hopefully will) be the face of a rapidly rising franchise, both on and off the ice.

Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!

by CharlieIsles on Jul 5, 2011 7:43 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

In addition to making other players better

How many other players in the NHL are as good as him below the circles? This year we saw more of his creativity, skill, and great hands below the hashmarks. Just like that goal he scored in Colorado. It was beautiful.

by nyidangle17 on Jul 5, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Troodat!

I like what he does in traffic… He’s like a NYC cabbie weaving through mid-day, midtown traffic…. and as an added bonus he speaks ENGLISH!

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jul 5, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

JT didnt get nearly enough cred last year.

With Grabs coming on strong and getting national attention, JT was slightly overlooked.
The man improved quite a bit in his sophomore year. I am happy with this guy as our number 1 center and think he will continue to get even better.

by The Danish Backhand of Judgement on Jul 5, 2011 8:14 AM EDT reply actions  

The Islander have tried to shelter him from too much attention

He takes things heavier than most and is more private than most players, and the Islanders have recognized that. When the time comes he will be given more attention for his accomplishments. But for now, we can praise him for the amazing player he is in Islander Country.

All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.

by pippup on Jul 5, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What I love about JT is his Hockey Sense

and by that I mean he has an instinctive grasp of what is needed at the particular moment in time, whether it be a shot or a great pass to somewhere that no one is expecting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piXP-wZmzc4

Until I see him hoist the Cup, this will be my favourite JT moment. It’s not a JT goal. It’s not a “sublime pass”. Indeed, it has a big element of luck, because it only works because the unprepared Russian Dman misplays the puck in front of the net. However, it is exactly what was needed at the moment and the only play that COULD work in the situation: a soft flip to the front of the net, where JT knew there would be a Jordan Eberle to make the play. Most would have just turned and fired at the net blindly, missed the net and helplessly watched the puck bounce off the end boards and down the ice. With 10 seconds left in the game, JT knew (I submit instinctively) what he needed to do to give his team a chance to win. He was 17 at the time and then and there (as if I needed anything further) I knew that he was something special.

STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!

by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jul 5, 2011 8:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, it is when you need a rhyme

Supposedly the fam is good with either that or Ta-vair-es

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jul 6, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

(9) The only reason I didn't give him a 10 is because he just missed 30 goals...

I think most of us thought he was supposed to be in the mold of so called “pure goal scorer”…This last season, to my surorise, he’s proven to be more of a play-maker than a sniper…Which is fine with me…

by KO21 on Jul 5, 2011 8:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I went 8

Another great year from JT. His vision is incredible, and he’d easily have another 10 assists if guys hadn’t been unprepared for his ridiculous passes.

Obviously his defense could improve a bit, but to make such strides at faceoffs was impressive. You wonder how good he can get at those with that hand-eye coordination.

The only reason I kept it down at 8 is I know one year he’s going to go absolutely bonkers, so I need to save some space. Of course at that point, we might need to take it up to 11!

by afrosupreme on Jul 5, 2011 8:25 AM EDT reply actions  

He definetly is an amazing passer

Not a playmaker, but a great passer. That is his great skill that makes him such a valuable player. When his defensive game picks up, with his vision, I agree he will be a monster of a player.

All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.

by pippup on Jul 5, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's a playmaking/goal-scoring hybrid

And that’s what makes him a great player with so much potential to achieve so much more. I think it’s reasonable to say he can reach 40 goals and upwards of 90 points just two or three more years down the road, and that will be delicious.

by sayvillelax94 on Jul 5, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

poke poke

No highlight of Tavares dancing around Blues defenseman like it’s just him and the net?

"I bet Calgary wishes they had a backup goalie as their GM" - Pauly C
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Jul 5, 2011 8:26 AM EDT reply actions  

When I was watching the awards show

I was fully expecting to see that goal during the goal of the year piece, and after the goals they showed I was a little pissed.

by IslesinAZ on Jul 5, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awww, man that one was sweet

Alas, I was pinched for time…

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jul 6, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

First time I ever ...

voted in one of these.
9.
Obviously I knew Tavares had great hands and tons of skill, but until last year I didn’t know his playmaking skills were so good. I wasn’t expecting him to control things down low and behind the net and pinpoint great passes like that. I guess a great player is a great player. I saw Bossy make some great passes too. But what’s most impressive to me about Tavares is how he assumed the helm as chief-playmaker knowing that’s what the team needed, and probably sacrificing a bunch of his own scoring chances to do it. I still think the GM, coach, owner and player would rather he was on the receiving end more than doing the dishing off himself. Hopefully Strome is an answer there. But the way Tavares rose to fill a need and demonstrated that level of ability in a way I was’t expecting was awesome, and I agree with JPinVA that it’s precisely that kind of mindset as well as ability that put those #’ up in the rafters.

by dose on Jul 5, 2011 8:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Asking how JT might grade himself, I gave him a.....

7; he definitely exceeded expectations given the team’s overall expected 2010-11 performance and while having far more truly brilliant moments/games than the campaign before, played with a higher degree of consistency but didn’t quite meet the measure of ‘fantastic’ all-around, wasn’t again carrying the team virtually all by himself. One reason for this is the fact that he DID have several other players, some of whom as noted most definitely benefited from JT’s skills (chiefly Moulson, Parenteau and to a lesser extent Comeau) that could lay claim to quite considerable contributions of their own…..I think that this upcoming season will really demonstrate to the rest of the league just how stellar John Tavares actually is…..

by ogam5 on Jul 5, 2011 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

- it also bears mentioning that a LOT of JT's value is his......

…..somewhat uncommon leadership, for someone so young…..

by ogam5 on Jul 5, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

8. I give him an 8.

Room for improvement, more goals and greater consistency. The effort and unselfishness is there. He makes his teammates play better. His defense can improve and he’ll pick up more goals next year.

(I predict 35-55-90 for him.)

by martylnd on Jul 5, 2011 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Numbers?!?!

My god what have you done?

/prepares sacrificial altar

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jul 5, 2011 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

to many letters in common

We’re doomed. DOOOOOOOOOOMED.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

8

improvement in all areas, especially strength in controlling the puck down low, and showing more patience with it. Can stickhandle in a phone booth. Vision is uncanny in the offensive zone. Expect him to continue upward.

by 7:11_OT on Jul 5, 2011 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Rec'd

He’s definitely more in the Crosby mode in that regard. I doubt offseasons have a lot of off time for him. He outworks his talent, which is impressive, because his talent is considerable.

by afrosupreme on Jul 5, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

My favorites have also always been that second(and sometimes third) tier player who wills themselves to be better than expectations. JT has some pretty lofty expectations, but they may have been based on an equal playing field. JT most definitely did not have an equal playing field in year one… and he things didn’t get much better in year 2… but HE DID!
Almost no VETERAN talent around him except for Mark Streit, then everybody gets a year older, you add PA Parentau(definitely not an established VETERAN) and take away Streit…
He walked into a situation where the coach was in his sophomore season with NO SUCCESS in his rookie campaign…. still basically the blind leading the blind. He helped make the only 30 goal scorer on the roster, and got ABSOLUTELY no protection from the NHL Slot Gauntlet… but consistently went there, took his lumps and provided what he was supposed to.
Year three… Capuano has loosened the chain on the guard dogs… the team is playing not only WITH, but FOR each other more than they have in a while. I fully expect a very balanced three line attack, and Tavares will be a big part of the special teams effort. 5-on-5 they improve… and Nino will help create a more aggessive offensive effort which should help JT be more productive on the PP.
This will be a very special year indeed. I go into this season with 40G/90PT expectations. So if I give him a 6 next year it will be something.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Jul 5, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post, and the sniper label he carried as an amateur is bullshit

I also heard him billed as a sniper. “he can’t skate, but he can shoot and get garbage goals around the net- make him a winger” That’s all BS. He is a much more dynamic player than that, and much better playmaker (still the most underrated, criminally underrated, aspect of his game) and also a lot ‘flashier’ than billed. I see him as the prototypical first line center in the mold of LaFontaine or Turgeon (for anyone who wants to say I am being way too optimistic take a look at their numbers from their first few seasons, keeping in mind the offensive era they played in) and while he may more may not reach the lofty success of those two he plays a similar game- finding open wingers, stickhandling through traffic, setting up plays from behind the net, converting passes into goals etc.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 5, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You know what I've been wondering

If Strome works out with him, one would think that Tavares would work on the things he had to work on to improve so much in his weak areas. After a full summer of working out with JT is Strome NHL ready?

Constantly building for the future.

by pgat28 on Jul 5, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taveres-Strome

Will Strome be strong enough is my question.

It would not surprise me if the Islanders took a look at Kiril and Strome for 9 games in the fall, just to see what they have.

by Ratman44 on Jul 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Short summer for a draftee

It’s interesting, Strome sure could benefit from learning what JT went through. Considering they already do summer workouts in the same area/whatever, he probably already has.

I think one of the things holding back 18-year-old draftees goes beyond age or workout knowledge — it’s simply the circus that is going from CHL playoffs to combine to draft to suddenly everyone in your life (and those who left your short life long ago) show up with the knowledge that you’re about to be a star/millionaire/NHLer. I just imagine the summer gets shortened that way, and workouts suffer.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jul 6, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went 8 as well

although if I could I would break it down in halves because the first half he was a 6 and the second half he was a 9+

As the year went on JT went from being the kind of player who had great hands and a nack for putting the puck in around the net to a player who creates his own scoring opportunities and uses his great passing ability to create opportunities for others. I believe that was the biggest difference between the JT of 2010 and the JT of 2011. NHL maturity. Just think of what kind of show we’re in for in 2012.

I'm the only RFA to get a qualifying offer worth less than the year before

by Chris McNally on Jul 5, 2011 10:06 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

When I am watching hockey games or highlights or interviews, I randomly blurt out to the digital image of JT, “We love you!”
It really is true… we all do love JT. And whats not to love?

(Yes, I really do this… but hey, its better than screaming at my TV “You suck!” “Get off this team!” and “Go to Bridgeport!” as I have screamed at other players in years past!)

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 5, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

naaaaahhhhh

You, yell at players? Nevah!

(Well, ok, maybe you yelled at Dick Tarnstrom.)

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know what TMC?

I think this year, he may be legal age for a topless chain-workout commercial!

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jul 5, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im hoping if the vote passes on Aug 1st

Charles will spring for a bowflex and a 40 watt bulb in the workout room

I'm the only RFA to get a qualifying offer worth less than the year before

by Chris McNally on Jul 5, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

The workout room was just given multiple millions of dollars of renovation not long ago

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Id rather see one of select memebers of the coaching staff

Dean and Doug would make awesome commercials- they should do them to appeal to a new audience. Suddenly moms all over LI would want to take their kids to hockey games!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Show idea

“The Real Cougars of Long Island Developmental Hockey”

Ugckhhhh, dis ref is a piece awf gawbage

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jul 6, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

Sometimes I see him make a play, not even necessarily one resulting in a goal, that makes me just sit back and smile. It’s a satisfying, contented feeling that we haven’t had in a while around here.

"It's too bad he lives in the city. He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent Paul Kraus during Palffy's contract holdout in 1998.

by PGI on Jul 5, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

apropos of nothing in particular

I love your avatar.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one knock I have...

is he seemed to take some bad penalties. The types that come from either being too slow or too tired (lots of hooking calls). It might have been the better competition as well. That should go away as he gets stronger and skates better. But all in all he is well on his way and I went 8.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on Jul 5, 2011 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

This is interesting.

If we’re looking for faults, I guess this might be it.
Weak penalties are often the result of fatigue. I think maybe his stamina/conditioning could get better. And I bet it does.

by dose on Jul 5, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

And combine that with...

…the Isles’ forwards on the cusp of being able to throw out three offensively productive lines (perhaps 4) this season. JT won’t need to do as much chasing when the opposition is wasting energy chasing after his team mates. Add in a (sacrifice Keith’s goats) relatively healthy defensive unit and Islanders are possessing the puck more and chasing less.

The fatigue may be as much mental as physical. (Easy for me to say, though.)

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 5, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Almost the reply I was going to write to a tee

I also have as a 8. He is still a kid with room to improve lets not get ahead of ourselves. He tends to use the slashing/hooking stick work to the mid section to the opposing player too much when caught behind by a stride, I think this leads to the bad penalties you refer too but hopefully as his skating improves that will go away.

by IslesinAZ on Jul 5, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't as bad in the second half.

At least it didn’t seem to be…I really don’t feel like going through all the game logs. He did seem to get stronger in general as the year went on.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on Jul 5, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Improvement

…JT may have been the most improved player, out of the ones who played significant time in each of the past two seasons for the Isles. After his first season, it seemed very possible that he would level off around 60 points a year. Now it seems more likely at least 75-80 points (which is probably good for a spot in the top-20 in the league). And if he continues to improve at close to this pace for 2 or 3 seasons, I don’t know where he’ll end up, but I do know the Isles’ playoff chances would be much higher.

His skating in particular was vastly improved from his rookie season. This enabled him to play more defense. (It was impossible for JT to defend in certain situations when he couldn’t get from position A to position B.)

His faceoff percentage went from being considerably below average to considerably above average. And with his incredible coordination, great work ethic, and improving physical strength, I expect him to be even better in coming seasons. (It’s nice when your top offensive center can win a lot of offensive zone draws.)

JT has done a lot without a great support cast. Assuming Streit is close to 100%, I am very excited to see JT, Streit, and Moulson on the PP together. That (on paper) is a good 1st unit no matter who the Isles throw in as the other two.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 5, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

Who else but JT

I gave him an 8, but just because I really don’t give out 9/10’s unless it’s an MVP-type season. I agree with North Dakota Red Eagle above that JT was perhaps the most-improved player, his skating was much better, he was good in corners and quick on his feet with some power.

The most important thing I see from JT is he’s durable. Opposing teams target him, but he still has only missed 3 games in his career (all this season). This shows me that he is well-conditioned, working hard and wants to be out there every game, improving.

I’m still a proponent of getting someone else on the first line besides PAP but I think that’ll happen eventually.

I don’t want to repeat what others have said so I’m just going to say I can’t wait for next season and continue to watch our hero JT grow.

by edavidmorris on Jul 5, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Annnnnnd that top something or other we were promised has arrived!!

The Isles have signed AHL center Trevor Frischmon! Wait, what?!?

"I think we consider too much the luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm." ~ FDR

by NSOsFan on Jul 5, 2011 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

the good news is

we didnt have to give up one of our core players to get him

I'm the only RFA to get a qualifying offer worth less than the year before

by Chris McNally on Jul 5, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You made my day

I hope this is just another signing to protect our young ones at Bridgeport.

Here is a quick write up on Trevor….

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12/tough_guy_trevor_frischmon_con.html

by TheMagus on Jul 5, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

We can call him up for the first Pitt game?

"I think we consider too much the luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm." ~ FDR

by NSOsFan on Jul 5, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, hope he can land a few as well, that nose has more turns than Lombardi Street

by 7:11_OT on Jul 5, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell for all we know

He’s the next Garth Snow sneaky signing haha

by sayvillelax94 on Jul 5, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I voted 10

Not for any other reason except that I’m an unapologetic homer who is completely biased.

And i’m just happy he’s on our team.

"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jul 5, 2011 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Lol, Dom

People always tell me I’m not objective when it comes to my favorite teams. I tell them i never claimed to be. I’m a fan. I don’t bet on the games, i don’t commentate the games, i watch them and cheer for my team, unapologetically.

"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jul 8, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

JT Improved

I am happy with the progress and improvement of JT. The biggest complaints against him were his slowness and defensive lapses. On both fronts he improved. He even had a breakaway last year where he pulled ahead of the defenseman.

JT has been Mr. Consistent since he arrived. If we had a physical right winger to protect him I think he would really blossom.

by TheMagus on Jul 5, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I gave Tavares an 8.

Overall, his improvement from his rookie year to his sophomore year was great. He took a huge step forward on faceoffs (5%), a good step up in points (13), all while playing 3 less games and facing much harder competition than last year. I, too was hoping to see more pure sniping from JT but he has been getting the job done regardless. JT is the franchise player on this team and I couldn’t be happier to have him. His work ethic is phenomenal and I hope he dedicates his entire off season training to his skating which also improved from last year. Skating is so important in the new NHL and if Tavares keeps working on that, he could be a consistent 90+ point player. I’d also like to see a little more talent on his right side so maybe moving Okposo up to the 1st line and sliding Parenteau to the 3rd line would help. Nino could start out on the 2nd line with Frans and Grabs.

by nyislanders93 on Jul 5, 2011 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

That may be the best solution

(Moving the RWs to different lines.) The downside is that it breaks up the top two lines, which were both playing well. The upside is that (1) it keeps the duos together (JT/MM; Frans/Grabner; Bailey/Comeau), all of which have shown good chemistry, and (2) it splits up the rookie Nino and the struggling Bailey. This leaves Martin and Reasoner for the 4th line with Hunter and Haley battling for the last spot…. Alternatively, I wouldn’t mind Nino starting with JT and Moulson, keeping KO on 2nd line, and hoping Parenteau can spark the 3rd line…. Truly, if Nino impresses in camp, any of the three RWers will be able to play on any of the top-3 lines, which falls under the category “good problems to have”, right?… This all assumes no trades involving forwards.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 5, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both Clips

I really like that both clips are of JT victimizing canadian teams in their own arenas. Now if only we had a Toronto clip…

by metalcoconut on Jul 5, 2011 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I give you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFOG4eDJs6I

Not quite as fancy as some of the others, but it was an OT winner

by Dr. Copp on Jul 5, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The view from above

the top angle on the flames goal…what a pretty move.

by Ratman44 on Jul 5, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

THERE it is

I was in a bar with a bunch of Blues fans that afternoon, warning them to watch the first line.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Jul 6, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smile

Flames goal, more importantly, had Jiggs McDonald.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 6, 2011 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Farewell Zenon

TheFourthPeriod David Pagnotta
Zonopka joins Ottawa, signing 1-year deal. Good pick up for Senators.
2 minutes ago

Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.

by Fabtraption on Jul 5, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I gave him a 1

His stubborn refusal to score 30 goals is inexcusable. That type of shit may fly in Toronto, but not here.

by AP77 on Jul 5, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

LOL

AP… this is J-O-H-N, not J-O-S-H!

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

9

This is what I get for coming later to the thread, all the good comments have been taken

Tavares has been just about everything you could as for from a #1 overall pick two years into the league with a team still growing around him. Our expectations will certainly get higher from here, but the best part is I don’t think any of us can have higher expectations for JT than he does for himself

by Dr. Copp on Jul 5, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I gave him a 10

Okay, maybe he deserves a nine but he has taken so much undeserved critism since the draft that I had to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

I think Tavares made enormous strides this past season. He looked a lot more confident on the puck, even cocky at times which is exactly what we need from him- take chances, blow away defenders, make highligh reel goals. His game was too simplified during his rookie season. For most players simplication is probably a good thing but with Tavares we need flash. He is the type of player we haven’t seen on the Island in a long time. He is so dynamic with the puck. He is an amazing playmaker with a great eye for getting the puck to his wingers from behind the net. I remember when we played the Rags last year LaFontaine was praising him between periods, calling him a very special player. He reminds me a lot of both LaFontaine and Turgeon. He wasn’t quite billed as that type of player as an amateur (was seen as more of a one-dimensional ‘sniper’) but I have been thrilled to see he is kind of player who makes those around him better. He’s the type of player you can build around.
      There were times during his rookie year where I was a little concerned. Looking at the strides he has made since that long scoreless drought mid-season of his rookie year I think fatigue played a factor. He has been much more proactive, much more focused in the neutral and defensive zones and a smoother skater. Like I mentioned above he is a lot more confident on the puck; he carries the puck more and shows off those great stickhandling skills.
     The skating has been mentioned a lot but I don’t think it will handicap him much as an offensive player. It may hurt his backchecking and defensive play a little bit but I think his hockey smarts will make up any lack of footspeed. And to be honest his “skating issues” are a bit overblown. As a rookie his stride looked a little akward but he seems to be skating from a better angle now, getting more torque. I think this has been the problem and maybe wasn’t addressed as an amatuer because he was so productive despite his average speed. In most cases I don’t think players can add much speed after a certain age but I think the apparant adjustment in his angle/torque has helped a lot. He has also added strength and while this may not add much speed it willl add stability and he has seemed harder to knock off the puck. (as a rook he looked like a ragdoll at times) He will never be a Pavel Bure/Michael Grabner but I think he is already close to average and its not something that he will be able to build his game around (his speed that is, like Grabs) but won’t be something that will hinder him either.
      And finally onto the 2009 draft redux. No, I would absolutely not take Duchene with 20/20 hindsight. Tavares is still first overall in my mind. Duchene was the better player as rookies. Offense was even but he was more well rounded. Tavares closed the gap as a sophomore and now they are about even. IMO though Tavares has a lot more offensive upside and as of yet untapped potential and I think he will continue to improve. Duchene is the more polished player but I think he is close to being as good as he will ever be. He was challenged quite a bit more as an amatuer while JT flatlined because he could dominate the OHL with his eyes closed and one hand ties behind his back. Thus is devolopment has been pushed back a little. I may be wrong and Duchene could end up the better player but it won’t bother me because we got a great player.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 5, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

A more skilled winger

With another finisher next to him he becomes more deadly.

With JT’s playmaking ability, and having 2 finishers by his side would make the other team be honest and give him what he really needs, space. Give hiom space and there is going to be a goal. That is why I am hoping they can find a true finisher to be his other sidekick.

by Ratman44 on Jul 5, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Tavares will flourish with more dynamic linemates. I love Moulson but I’m not convinced he will JT’s wing after a few more years. I’ve also been a huge supporter of PAP but that is tempered with realistic expactions. I like PAP because he came out of nowhere to provide good first line production at a bargain. He is not dynamic enough of a player though to be best served playing with JT. He’s a great ‘stopgap’ if you will. With Nino, Kabanov, Petrov, Lee and now Strome we have some very talented forwards in our system. I think Lee may one day be given a shot to play with Tavares because he is big, physical but also a talented player- a guy who can get in front of the net, convert passes and create plays. Nino should get his shot playing with JT as early as this coming season and I think there could be some real synergy there. I really liked the Strome pick because has those things you can’t teach- an eye for the game and creating scoring opportunites, great stickhandling and seems to be a dynamic offensive forward. He will also be given a shot playing wing on JT’s line to see what kind of chemistry is there- and I am optimistic that is could be an effective pairing. Kabanov is my ‘sleeper’ pick for being a first line winger a few years down the road. He has incredable upside and has the tools to devolop into a very dynamic player. I think ideally JT should be paired with a big, physical skilled two-way finisher on one side and creative playmaker also capable of finishing on the other. Nino and Strome come to mind. One final point- regardless of who JT plays with he will produce and make hisl linemates better. We saw last year with PAP.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 6, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, I need to learn some synonyms for 'dynamic'

Just re-read my post and it seemed every other sentance I used the word ‘dynamic’. Its a word I like to throw around when talking about good hockey players.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 6, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You should try counting the word "shutdown" when defensemen are discussed here

Lol some adjectives are just too perfect to sub out

"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)

by Bryan2112 on Jul 6, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know

Its something I’m also very guilty of

by MatthewM11 on Jul 7, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seven-eighths??!?!?

Wow, you’re a tough grader!

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, that's almost 1

Ozzy is the prince of darkness so it is fitting he hates beaches, sunsets, cool breezes and hockey

by MatthewM11 on Jul 5, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he hates those things

One time I saw him build a bonfire on a beach. ;o)

"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jul 5, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I once saw him blow coke off a stipper's ass

actually no, I didn’t but I imagine he has done that quite a bit. When did you see Ozzy osbourne build a bonfire?

by MatthewM11 on Jul 5, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

On his tv show

"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jul 5, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

best Ozzy album is Blizzard Of Oz

"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Jul 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

All this time I thought he was an Ozzie Smith fan and just couldnt spell

this assumption would also mean I blatantly ignored his avitar, but lets all play along in the name of humor

I'm the only RFA to get a qualifying offer worth less than the year before

by Chris McNally on Jul 5, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm waiting for "HarrietFan" to show up in the comments.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Jul 6, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

True story

I have a good friend who’s last name is Osborne. Her Dad’s name is Ozzy and mother’s name is Harriet. Just one of those weird coincedences.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 6, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blizzard and No More Tears are my 2 favorites of his solo stuff.

Bringing his Sabbath work into the equation makes it a lot tougher of a debate though.

by OzzyFan on Jul 5, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's actually kind of a loaded question- the poll (sorry Dom) because really his expectations

were so high. I was looking at it more as “how would you grade him” as opposed to “has he met/exceeded your expectations?” Truth is he went in a compeltely different direction than my expectations, or more accuratly was a different player than I expected. I had seen him play in the World Juniors and had read and seen him billed as a short first sniper. I’ve gone into that quite a bit in the past and up above. But he really shattered my expectations because while he may not have scored as many goals at this point as I had expected he has turned out to be a much more exciting player. I was expecting a guy who could score 40+ goals with a good playmaker on his line; not a player who was going to make those around him better scorers. I thought we maybe had a Carter type 40g 30a center and instead I think he could easily be a 35g 50a player or better (both with Gs and As) A true offensive leader you can build around. Not a one dimensional sniper but a creative, flashy playmaking center.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 5, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can someone tell Greg Whyshnewski to stop drinking the Kool-Aid...

Poor bastard came out with his free-agency report cards and has it all ass backwards!
Buffalo gets an A- just for pissing money away!?! Avs get a B. Not even taking into account the Varlomov trade because, well it was a trade, but signing Gigure when Vokoun was stil around is asinine. Not to mention they lost Fleischman. The BJ’s get a B for pinning their hopes and dreams on a D-man who can’t find a home and the Flyers get a B- for completely blowing up their team and trying to piece it back together with shit.

Not surprisingly we get a C- for failing to sign Erhoff although I’m sure it would still be a C- if we had signed him to a 10-year deal as well.

by 54_Fighting on Jul 5, 2011 4:05 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Yandle may be off the board

Darren Dreger is hearing he agreed to a 5 year, $26.5 million extension.

"I think we consider too much the luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm." ~ FDR

by NSOsFan on Jul 5, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

5 from me. And I love JT

All the 8’s and 9’s lead me to believe most voters have gotten away from the “vs expectations” criteria. I have very high expectations for him. I felt he was capable of 35 goals and 75 points. All other areas of his game progressed as I hoped. Glad to see the face off percentage improving. Will have to progress again next year to “meet” expectations. So over all- I love this kid.

This IS the year.

by since70too on Jul 5, 2011 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I voted a 6, since JT's play met expectations

I think Tavares is definitely on the right track, but I was expecting a modest increase in points and an improvement in his overall game. Both have happened, but he didn’t have a Stamkos-esque sophomore season (which would warrant a 10).

by Dougtone on Jul 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT reply actions  

In all fairness to JT...

The Bolts never went through a 21 game stretch like the Isles did from Oct. 23 to Dec. 13 during Stamkos’ sophomore season.

21 games where they only won 1 game and the offense was virtually non-existent: Shutout three times, scored goal in seven of those games and four games where they managed only two goals. Fourteen out of twenty one like that, the Islanders as a team were just plain bad during that stretch.

Tavares had 10 points during that stretch (6 goals, 4 assists), but even then, three of those goals came from his trick against the Panthers in the first game of The Skid.

After The Skid?

21 goals, 34 assists.

Not saying Tavares would have put up the 51, 44 that Stamkos did in a full 82 game schedule in 09-10, but I have to figure without The Skid, he tops 70 points, with a very good shot at 80, and that’s missing those three games.

I gave him a 10 for doing what he did in spite of being on a team that played a 21 game retch like the Isles did during The Skid.

Jeff Carter to Columbus? Wait, I've seen this one before, it was called Shanahan to Hartford. Advice? Don't buy a Carter jersey.

by BrassBonanza10 on Jul 6, 2011 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of that had to do with shooting percentages, though. Until Dec 13 JT’s EV on-ice shooting was 4.2%, of course an unsustainably low number. After Dec 13 it was 9.3%, an unsustainably high number.

Basically, in order to determine the potential output of a player you can’t just take the production (or of course on the team level the record) of a given stretch and then extrapolate. You always need to look at the numbers in detail. For JT, the numbers show that he was rewarded pretty fairly over the course of the whole season (8.0% EV on-ice shooting).

And due to such distortions, when it comes to determine the hockey a player played in a given stretch, it’s more helpful to look at other numbers, e.g. shot rates. And they show that JT’s line was playing just about the same hockey all year. Actually, JT’s line produced 2.72 shots per game with the score tied until Dec 13, but only 2.60 after Dec 13. Now, I think they played against slightly tougher competition in the 2nd half of the season. So, that probably explains the difference and I surely wouldn’t claim JT’s line played significantly better early in the season, but for all I know I doubt the contrary is true. The shot ratios (0.457 before Dec 13 vs 0.439 after Dec 13) as well as Corsi ratios (0.444 before Dec 13 vs. 0.446 after Dec 13) with the score tied indicate similar findings, though as said JT probably did play a bit tougher competition towards the end and at the same time had worse team mates (worse D) and his line thus might have improved a little bit.

Bottom line is I think what JT did this season was good enough for roughly 70 points, which represents very decent progress because what he did in 09-10 was not really 50+ point-worthy in my opinion. So, I’m definitely happy with his season and think the progress he made offensively should not be underrated, but still feel a 6-7 grade would be about fair given realistic expectations.

by BenHasna on Jul 6, 2011 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

to wing or not to wing

It’s not likely to be a popular opinion on this board, but I’m still of the opinion that they should try him at wing for a limited period, although I’m sure he wouldn’t be happy with it. Maybe I’m still expecting the arrival of the next coming of Brett Hull that we were all sold on.

Point

Counterpoint

by isles16 on Jul 6, 2011 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he's way too much of a threat up the middle as a scoring threat and playmaker to move to the wing...

…UNLESS, Strome turns out to be one of those master of the impossible playmakers, in which case, Tavares could be the second coming of Bossy.

Even then, I still think you keep Tavares anchoring the first line, put Strome on the two and Frans holding the three together (Obviously, you keep Frans and Grabs together on the two for now and ease Strome into the pro game to start.) and you’ve got three dangerous lines with dangerous playmakers up the middle, feeding some lethal snipers on the wings.

Jeff Carter to Columbus? Wait, I've seen this one before, it was called Shanahan to Hartford. Advice? Don't buy a Carter jersey.

by BrassBonanza10 on Jul 6, 2011 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

If Stome ends up being as good or better than JT, you would almost have to split them considering the “makes their teammates better angle”. Why have them both get 90 points assisting to each other when you can have them each get 75 assisting to 4 other guys.

The only way they end up on the same like is if Bailey (or someone else) also pans out to be a 60-80 point player. If that happens, we’re talking a level of dominance we haven’t seen in years.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Jul 6, 2011 9:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

6

he met expectations…but he didnt take the leap. id still take him #1, but well guys, a 9 or 10 for a #1 draft pick ought to be a stamkos-like leap.

he was our 2nd most valuable player last year. but he aint a star yet

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on Jul 6, 2011 11:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Rec'd like the Prequel Trilogy!

Jeff Carter to Columbus? Wait, I've seen this one before, it was called Shanahan to Hartford. Advice? Don't buy a Carter jersey.

by BrassBonanza10 on Jul 6, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that he seemed more focused and confident on the puck

It entirely anecdotal but to me he seemed to very different player this year compared to his first year. Did anyone else notice a change in the angle of his stride and his torque? It seemed that as a rookie he had a very akward stride- legs spread too far apart with little torque, he was pushing off from his skates and not utilizing his legs enough. Furthermore the angle of his skates to the ice seem ineffecient, if that makes sense. I am trying to explain what I am thinking about and not being a skating coach I don’t know all the terminology. To me it seemed like a simple, fixable problem that could have a big impact on his game. I did notice this year his stride has seemed a lot smoother and he has been getting better torque from his legs.
     I mentioned the focus- as a rook he seemed a little lost when didn’t have the puck and has seemed to have better positioning this year.
      The confidence on the puck- he seemed to be carrying the puck more and taking chances deking on defenseman to get the puck into the offensive zone. He really is a very creative stickhandler and I like to see him using this skill more.

by MatthewM11 on Jul 6, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

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1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


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