Islanders' need for a top 4 defenseman is enormously overstated.
by garik16 on Jul 4, 2011 12:54 AM EDT
Email
Print
One recurring comment I keep hearing on this blog is that the Isles have great need of a "Top 4 Defenseman," and that their current failure to acquire such a player has been a major fault of the Isles' Free Agency so far. Some people go so far as to cite the loss of Radek Martinek as the cause of this need; others simply point out that the Defense was one of the team's major weaknesses last year and yet the only thing the Isles have done to address this deficiency has been to let Jack Hillen and Radek Martinek GO, along with failing to sign Christian Ehrhoff.
But in reality, this isn't quite the case.
Let's get one thing clear here: Defense WAS a major problem for the Islanders last year. Both Marc Eaton and Mike Mottau put up disappointing performances - Mottau was really terrible, though Eaton was not as bad as he seemed - and got injured pretty quickly. Dylan Reese and Bruno Gervais were godawful at D; both of them made fans cringe when they were on the ice. And Radek Martinek, no longer facing as tough opposition in the past, also put up his worst year in a while, despite being one of the most healthy members of the D core. The end result was that the Islanders gave up the 3rd most SoG per game (at even strength), and unlike the two "worse teams" in the statistic, Boston* and Carolina, they did not quite have a great goaltender to prevent them from giving up a ton of goals.
*Note: Boston's SoG is misleading: With the score tied, they basically gave up a lot less shots on goal. What occurred here is that Boston managed to go up on opponents pretty damn often, and then they relaxed their edge on O, allowing opponents to take more shots (no doubt a task made easier by having Tim Thomas). Boston was NOT a bad defensive team last year; this is simply the result of them having the lead quite often.
However, once again I reiterate: while the Defense was a clear major problem last year, the Isles do not have a desperate need to acquire a so-called top-4 D-Man. In fact, it's almost certain, barring a bunch of unfortunate circumstances, that the D is going to be far better this year than last year.
The Islanders Defense core for next year lines up like this right now:
Top 3 D-Men:
34 Year Old Mark Streit
25 Year Old Andrew Macdonald
21 Year Old Travis Hamonic
Next 3 D-Men (In Some Order)
35 Year Old Mark Eaton
34 Year Old Mike Mottau
29 Year Old Milan Jurcina
7th D-Man (Likely to make the Roster, Currently)
24 Year Old Ty Wishart
D-Men on the Bridge in case of Injury:
27 Year Old Dylan Reese (I don't like it either, but he got a QO and is likely the first one up)
22 Year Old Mark Katic
20 Year Old Calvin De Haan
21 Year Old Matt Donovan
First, it should hopefully be apparent to you all that the addition of Mark Streit to the D Core drastically improves the team's Defense. Streit will probably not be as good as he was in his first two Isles seasons - he's several years older and coming off of injury - but should be at least as good as Jack Hillen or Radek Martinek and probably better by a good deal than both.
Second, you'll note I've bolded several players ages: 6 players to be exact. Why? To point out how freaking young they are. This shouldn't come as news to anyone, but players who are really young USUALLY (not always) develop and get better with more experience. So looking at the Defensemen who should crack the Isles out of training camp:
1. Andrew Macdonald was essentially our #1 D-Man last year and was only 24, definitely not yet in his prime, and having just had a first season as a full time #1 D-Man, he came out pretty damn impressively. Also he was supposedly playing with injury for the last part of the year, so he should be better post-surgery.
2. Travis Hamonic, playing #2 D-Man (and #1 when AMac was out) for 3/4 of the year, was ONLY TWENTY YEARS OLD LAST YEAR! Meanwhile, he came out with AMAZING numbers, well worthy of a #1 Defenseman and put up 26 points to boot. If you don't think Hamonic, having done that at such a super-young age, is going to develop further and get better next year, you're crazy.
3. Ty Wishart, who will probably either start the season as the #7 D-Man or 1st man up from the Bridge (if they sign another D-Man), was only 23. Meanwhile, despite an awkward size, the kid showed some very impressive stuff while up on the Isles, and despite not playing top competition, put up some very impressive possession numbers. Also he has size. And did I mention he was TWENTY THREE? Once again, he's likely to get better, not worse next year.
------
That's Basically HALF of the D-Core, who should get better next year, two of which will get major minutes. Add that to Mark Streit, and you have 4 of the 7 likely D-Men to make the roster who will be superior to last year's equivalent D-Men. That'll improve the defense by quite a bit, even if the other guys on the roster stay the same or get worse by a little bit.
And that's not all: Calvin De Haan, only 20 years old next year, is likely to make the NHL team sometime in the next season - though he won't as quickly as Hamonic unless there's either major injuries or he starts kicking the AHL's ass. While he's not as hyped as Hamonic perhaps was, he's a pretty good prospect who will improve the D even further.
Matt Donovan (21 years old next year), is also likely to eventually crack the defensive lineup and be an improvement over the bottom 3 D-Men in 2011 and the Defensemen in 2010. Oh and Mark Katic (22 years old) will surely be better, though he's likely to be the worst of any of these young guys.
------
So the Defense should be vastly improved right there - and they're going to be helped out by a superior defender in Marty Reasoner replacing Zenon Konopka. This is without even ACQUIRING ANYONE ELSE!
So why is Garth reportedly looking to upgrade the Defense by trade? Well, remember people, the names that have been mentioned so far: Christian Ehrhoff, Keith Yandle, even Bryan McCabe.
THESE ARE ALL OFFENSIVE DEFENSEMEN
None of these guys are known for their Defense (though Yandle shouldn't be too bad), they're all guys who would contribute to the team's offense - in particular any of the three would be an apt Power Play Quarterback. These are not the guys who would improve the ability of the team to stop shots, but are guys who could increase the lethal efficiency of the power play.
Now there's an interesting question here: If Streit is healthy and coming back, why do we need a PP Quarterback? My suspicion? They'd like to rest Streit more on the Power Play, and none of the other D-men are really great at being a PP Quarterback (Macdonald wasn't horrible, but still not great). The addition of one of these guys would allow the team to rest the aging Streit and ensure he would be ready for the defensive challenges he would face on PK or at even strength.
--------
Conclusion:
I hope it's clear to you all the truth: The Islander Defense, by virtue of young talent, and the recovery of Mark Streit, should be greatly improved next year, absent the impact of injuries. It is not a huge concern; most certainly not such that the team should overpay to acquire a good Defenseman. This team's D core shows a ton of promise and may very well be a strength next year....even if we don't actually do anything about it right now.
Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.
117 comments
|
7 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I Agree With You, But It Doesn't Look Like Garth Does
Unless Garth is just blowing smoke, and I don’t think he is, it sure looks like he believes this team needs to upgrade their top-4 with an offensive-minded or good 2-way defenseman. And Garth certainly wouldn’t have taken the risk of trading a draft pick just to negotiate with Ehrhoff if the brain trust didn’t believe that.
Who knows? Maybe Streit’s shoulder injury has left him at less than 100% permanently. Maybe A-Mac’s hip surgery won’t have him back until December. Maybe Isles believe DeHaan and Donovan require a lot more AHL seasoning than Hamonic did. Whatever the reason, Isles are certainly not going to tip their hand and have the price on a player they want go up.
I think Garth agrees with me.
It’s easier to say: “I’m looking for a top 4 D-Man” than “I’m looking for a new powerplay quarterback.”
The former looks much better and most fans don’t know the difference (as seen from the Ehrhoff situation).
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
New PP Quarterback = Top 4
He’s looking for a “good” defenseman. I thought your point was that he didn’t need to.
I thought your point was that he didn’t need to.
Id like to point out the title of this article is “The Isles’ need for a top 4 Defenseman is enormously overstated”
not “The Isles do not need a top 4 Defenseman”
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
My Point was That the Team Apparently Does NOT Think the Need for a Top-4 Defenseman is Overstated
Otherwise, they would not have been in aggressive pursuit of Ehrhoff or whoever else they’ve been after.
And MY point is that its relative
ALL Teams look to upgrade- but the Isles do not need someone so bad that they should just take anymore.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
(and FTR, Hamonic should have required more AHL seasoning)
He’s the exception, not the rule….most 20 year olds would NOT have put up that performance.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Agreed
And there is a very good chance that he regresses this year, as many other 2nd year Dmen have done, and gets sent down to Bridgeport.
Ehh, even if he regresses, I think he’ll stay up for developmental purposes, and I dnt doubt a year from now he’ll be better.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 5, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I Agree With You, But It Doesn’t Look Like Garth Does
I cant figure out why you would think that. The GM says he is looking for a top defenseman- compared to whats already here. All GMs should always look for upgrades, make them if they can, and NOT make them if whats out there isnt an improvement thats worth it. Since Garth hasnt gone trigger happy, bringing in any warm body he can get because the D is in so much trouble, it is reasonable to think that he does not see such a desperate need, either.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a really good way to say it.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
thanks :)
Needless to say, I agree with your post.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I think most of us agree with the post
but on Free Agent day when you hear rumors, it’s kind of fun to discuss things like trades, signings etc. No one wants to blow up the rebuild or trade away prospects etc, just to do it. It’s fun to talk about a little though.
As I said in the Yandle/McCabe/Hannan post, I have all the faith in the world in Streit/Amac/Hamonic and the whole need for a ‘top 4’ is somewhat fabricated.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
It's at least part gamesmanship.
It shows the fans that he’s looking to better the team without being committed to actually overpay for an asset. A month down the line he can say he tried but no deal was worth it. If someone offers him a generous deal he will take it but mostly I think he’s fine with the D. Dee (7th woman) says he LOVES Wishart so I wouldn’t be shocked if he is in the top 6. Hamonic is going to have a great season. He was just getting comfortable on the offensive side at the end of last season. He could end up with 40 points with very solid defense. He’s the kind of 2nd round steal that every champion seems to have (like Duncan Keith and Milan Lucic to name two). I don’t think the casual fans understand how much of a steal he was yet but we do.
Vote Yes on August 1st.
To be honest the only thing their defensive core needs is some size
The only fault against that group is that they seem undersized compared to a D core like Philly or Boston has. A guy like Andy Sutton was: big, physical, defensive, and blocked shots. not to mention a leader in the lockerroom. Yandle would be valuable due to his skill and age but a guy like Hannan(even though hes on the decline) would be a big help in terms of leadership and toughness that would go a long way in helping the younger Dmen develop. I think though if Garth was able to trade for the rights of RFAs like Yandle and Weber though everyone would be happy with that
by MineolaIsles on Jul 4, 2011 2:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We will get there
Garth adds size as long as they can skate too. Hamonic is 6’2" and 200+ I believe. Wishart is big. Juice is big but doesn’t use it fully. Mayfield will be big. CDH is only 6’1 but he is up to 195 so he’s on his way. It doesn’t help much this year but we will have size coming up.
Vote Yes on August 1st.
by Anarcurt on Jul 4, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
it was very telling when snow passed over several prospects who had size and skill but also had skating issues….courturier, ambroz (though every passed on him a few times) even boone jenner, billy carroll’s nephew, who seemed to have all the grit and grind and character, but lacks skating.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 4, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely agree with your assessment overall, but I don’t really know what Garth in truth is looking for. From the Ehrhoff trade it seems he’s looking for a PP quarterback indeed, but we have no other point of reference really because the names of Yandle and McCabe have just been rumoured by totally untrustworthy sources. So, that doesn’t mean anything.
It might well be a PP quarterback anyway, but then I’d still be relatively clueless why that would be a big need. First of all, I think A-Mac’s PP ability is a little underrated, he’ll be pretty great on the PP, too. Then, I’m still hopeful they can figure something out with a forward on the point.
However, your suspicion of them trying to give Streit more rest might of course be true, but would be a rather stupid idea in my opinion. The PP, or just offense generally, is Streit’s biggest asset and obviously his ability there vital for the team indeed. Moreover, PP minutes are clearly the easiest minutes to play, so, I’d struggle to understand why cutting Streit’s PP TOI by a minute or so would leave them better off overall. If anything, it would be smarter to cut on his tiring PK duty, where the team’s much stronger anyway and Streit, though underrated, not that much of a vital part of course. And to do that you’d not even need to make a big trade, as A-Mac, Hamonic and Jurcina are all pretty great on the PK anyway, with Eaton being a solid option, too.
by BenHasna on Jul 4, 2011 6:22 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Thats a good point about the PK
We were 12th in PK last year and we didn’t put out the Nielsen Grabner PK out there untill the middle of last year.
Dont forget also
that was playing with the 6 goalie platoon of doom
With some hopefully steadier goaltending from montoya, that should improve even more
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
And add to that Reasoner and true NHL defensemen
…Streit should hardly be needed for PK with Hamonic, AMac, Jurcina, and one of the 5th/6th (Wishart or Eaton). That’s a pretty good group of four. And the D doesn’t have to be quite as good with Grabner, Frans, Reasoner, Bailey, Comeau, etc.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 6, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
In fairness, the only thing unreliable about this is LINKING Yandle to the Isles
But Snow told Strang they were looking for a top 4 and Bob McKenzie was the source for saying Yandle may be on the move. And I agree with Garik, I don’t think we NEED a top 4 D, but, if we can get a great top 2, I’d be all in (depending on cost)…but I don’t think the season will be lost if we don’t get one.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Jul 4, 2011 10:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
yeah, that's basically what I meant
I don’t doubt Phoenix will explore options, but that, as you say, doesn’t have anything to do with the Islanders. And regarding McCabe, a pretty reliable source said he most likely never was an option – namely Garth Snow himself, when he stated the D upgrade would not come via free agency most likely (and this weekend would be quiet).
I think in a different thread you made the point that every trade brings the rosters and market into motion, as happened with the addition of Franson for the Leafs and the possible departure of Komisarek. I’m sure Komisarek is definitely no option, but maybe some similar movement might open a trade window for Garth to get a player he likes.
by BenHasna on Jul 4, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope Komi is not an option
But of course, Incarcerated bob tweeted this recently:
UPDATED NHL NEWSSource: Brian Burke has made contact with a few teams in regards to unloading Komisarek (Islanders / Jets / Kings)
web • 7/4/11 8:03 AM
The patience thing will be key…stay the course and save the deal for the perfect target or don’t bother. The perfect target makes the Isles better for years without crippling the finances or stunting prospect development.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Jul 4, 2011 10:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
What About Zach Bogosian?
He was supposedly being talked about at the draft. RFA, right-handed, big with real offensive upside, only 20. Seems to have gone backwards defensively, but Cap can probably fix that. That, of course, would have to be by trade. Depends on whether Winnipeg would want to move him, but they do have extra offense back there with Byfuglien and Enstrom (both 50 point defensemen) and Hainsey, who’s capable of putting up 30.
I think the Caps need to move a D Man
They have 7 D-Men under contract with Alzner as an RFA. They are also only 500k or so under the cap. Maybe we can get Jeff Schultz. It wouldn’t help offensively but it gives us the crease clearer we want. Just no Poti.
Vote Yes on August 1st.
Jeff Schultz is big, but he isn’t a crease clearer. He’s a positional, poke-check type whose skating is pretty “fringe.”
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 4, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow didn't think he was that poor
Why are you guys paying him nearly 3 mil a season? Jeez. Yeah then hes not the type of big we are looking for.
Vote Yes on August 1st.
He was coming off a really good 09-10, if you recall. Part of it is that he didn’t drag down Green as much as Morrisonn. He seemed top-4 then.
He’s had some bad luck with getting ailments over the offseason, though, and speaks of how hard it is for him to keep on weight at his age, so the lost “beef-up time” hurts. Before this year he lost weight with mono, after 07-08 shoulder surgery I think (08-09 he was hurt at the end too—Dubinsky notoriously helped break his ankles or whatever—but that was his legs, not upper body).
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 4, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm surprised you're still sober after the Vokoun signing
would’ve assumed you’d be drinking in celebration for the next 3 days.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Jul 4, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Heh, now that I’m back in the US I’m legally underage. I should have stayed abroad a bit longer.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 4, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Garth wants a PP QB to be Streit's security this year(wiz was help/possible successor addittion last year) and eventually Streit's successor.
Ehrhoff would have been that guy. Yandle could be that guy. McCabe would be a stop gap. Defensively with “shutdown/defensive” d-man for now we are ok, but an outright #2 offensive d-man we don’t have for Streit on the PP like we did with Wiz last year(or for security, which was needed last year).
I'd be satisfied if someone pushed out Mottau
if that means through an acquisition or just someone having a great camp.
Founder, President and sole member of the Bruno Gervais fan club
Call me crazy but I believe this team has a shot to make an 8th spot
I understand that other teams have been improving their lines by signing quality free agents and that the Isles haven’t. But I believe in this team…hopefully they believe in themselves…As long as they can stay away from prolonged losing streaks, they have a shot…
The defense will be improved next year, but will it be enough?
Streit coming back will help out a lot. Hamonic, MacDonald and Wishart should all take steps forward in their development. On the other hand, Streit, Mottau, and Eaton will all likely take steps back due to age. The defense of last year gave up the 4th most goals against in the NHL. The prospects look great but when most fans are calling for a top 4 defensemen, the prospects are excluded because the prospects will help in the future, not right now. People who want a top 4 defenseman want the team to make the playoffs now. I do believe that one very solid defenseman must be added to the roster for the playoffs to be a reasonable goal for this year. Think about all the teams ahead in the East that are not taking steps back.
Two points:
One:
The defense of last year gave up the 4th most goals against in the NHL.
The defense was bad. But you know what was more responsible for giving up so many goals? The GOALTENDING. The Isles had the 4th worst goaltending in the league at even strength, and were essentially tied for last. That’s an issue of goaltending, which is an issue that needs to be fixed, but is not purely on the D.
The D is set to clearly greatly improve. Streit’s step back won’t be enough to negate his upgrade just from coming back, and as Mottau and Eaton decline, they’ll be easily replaced by Wishart and one of the young prospects.
The prospects look great but when most fans are calling for a top 4 defensemen, the prospects are excluded because the prospects will help in the future, not right now. People who want a top 4 defenseman want the team to make the playoffs now.
The prospects are in the AHL. They are basically a year away at most; likely they will be on the NHL squad by 40 games in. If you don’t have patience for that, you clearly are watching the wrong team.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
I agree Streit coming back at half of what he was is still an upgrade.
The D will be a lot better with his addition. The goaltending was poor mostly due to DP and very poor defense in front of the goalie. Even at their best, I just don’t see Mottau and Eaton capable of handling full time roles on a team trying to make the playoffs. Hillen and Martinek leaving hurts the depth as well in case injuries strike as they always do. Also, relying on rookie guys like de Haan and Donovan to carry the team to the playoffs is also unfair. Hamonic is one exception to that rule because he came in, looked great, and never looked back. The future looks bright for sure, but the prospects should get a lot of time in BP before being relied upon to contribute to a playoff team. Rookies are rarely the strongest players on the team. I feel that adding a good two way defenseman for the next 2 years would help the team go a long way in the short term and the long term.
by nyislanders93 on Jul 4, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No, the goaltending was poor because DiPi, Koskinen, and Lawson were terrible.
and Martinek was pretty bad.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Depth
I think Garth and the team are at the point where depth means more than just bodies. Martinek is a body, but not a good hockey player. It’s better that the depth be rookies with upside, rather than veterans on the decline. I mean they could’ve brought back Marty, but what good does that really do? If someone gets hurt, do you want a subpar 35 year old, or someone with potential?
To me Hillen = Katic right now. But Katic deserves an opportunity to show he can be more than Hillen. I liked Hillen at times, I thought he was bad at times, but he was never going to be consistently above average. Lets see if someone else can be.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Martinek
I really don’t get all the Martinek bashing. When you look at this list of defensemen, I think, at worst, Martinek would have been more reliable than all but four defensemen in the organization. Ty Wishart is promising but unproven, CDH, et.al. are unproven also. Jurcina looks promising too, but has been in the league for a long time and never proven to be consistent yet. As for Mottau and Eaton, I think Martinek can skate circles around them. I’ll bet if Garth had a do-over, he wouldn’t have signed either one.
by Potvin's Cups on Jul 6, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
one would think the annual stanley cup finals - frequent Isles former draft picks - hoisting cup elsewhere
would have cured this milbury mentality
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 4, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This also brings another good point, not saying you are saying this, but prospects aren't anything until they've proven themselves it.
DeHaan could easily become a bust and shouldn’t be counted on in the future. Donovan too. We can’t count on them to be reliable top 4 puckmovers in the nhl until they’ve proved it. That’s why I think “one” of them should be expendable in a deal for a young top pairing d-man like a Yandle or Suter. Sell high, don’t sell when one may turn into the next Bogosian.
The problem is that you're still undervaluing prospects there.
Prospects due to have a bust rate which can result in problems. But they also have the advantage of coming cheaper and being under team control for longer.
This is a major advantage for a team with a limited budget, which the Islanders are. It makes the accompanying bust rate much more acceptable.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
I know that, but you missed the point. I'll explain.
I believe(as would most I think), that we have 2 “similarly” projected top 4 30pts/yr puckmoving/PP-possible “prospect” d-men in donovan and de haan. For the immediate future, we have a-mac/hamonic as likely future #2/#3 d-men, and even Wishart as a possible future #4 d-man. We have no real “definite” streit-succesor/50pts per season-PP running-24min/gm-defensively reliable-top pairing guy. Will DeHaan become that guy? From everything he’s done so far, chances are likely no. Will Donovcan? chances are likely no. Could DeHaan and a pick or 2 possibly fetch a top pairing successor to Streit? Definitely likely. Say for example: a package of DeHaan + next year’s 1st rounder + Bailey/Comeau/PAP/Kabanov/Wishart would highly likely return a Suter or a Yandle or a Doughty(who reportedly turned down his last big offer from the Kings). And then when you finally take bust factors into account for picks and prospects, this scenario and trade idea makes a lot of sense. That’s what I’m trying to say. That trade idea is worth every penny if it brings back a Streit-successor, and is cost-efficient given our situation. If anything, I think you are overvaluing how well prospects turn out, especially those of DeHaan/Donovan caliber or the likely mid-1st round pick we’d give away if we acquired a Yandle/Suter type.
it would not fetch Doughty
And Yandle/Suter is nowhere near in that league.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
"Yandle/Suter" in what league?
Top pairing minute d-men that can throw up 50pts/yr and run a PP while playing reliable 2-way hockey? Yes they can.
No where near Doughty's league.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Which has nothing to do with our decisions NOW.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Because they are not worth up-front money now
- It makes them tradeable by keeping the cap hit low even though the actual $ are high.
- It allows for Snow to add FA pieces now (if possible)
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I knew I was gonna get this answer. But do people really believe we are gonna be a low-budget team forever?
In a 1-3yrs, it’s likely going to be spend some money to make us a real cup contender or lay back as a middle of the pack-lower playoff team. It’s an eventuality that we will need to spend money to put us over the top. Yes, cheap prospects are nice, but I just don’t see us being a budget team in a couple years when it’s going to be the difference between spending near the cap ceiling or losing in the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs. No?
by OzzyFan on Jul 5, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think we're going to be low budget
I think we’re gonna be good. And when you have a lot of good players, you’re going to have to spend a lot of money…so Snow is going to have to figure out a way of making those cap hits mesh together the right way by staggering years, front/back/middle loaded etc. That also is pending what the next CBA looks like. Certainly if there is a rollback, that will be a problem. But think about this, Ehrhoff wants a 10 yr deal with the first 3 having 60% of the money, but the cap hit is 5 mil.
Now, he sucks in 3 years, but starts to suck up the cap hit in JT’s first UFA, the expiration of Nino’s ELC, the end of Amacs contract, Strome reaches his bonus clause, Hamonic’s ELC expires, Poulin’s ELC expires, and oops, Streit goes down and we are clinging to 7th in the conference. We need to make a trade for a D man and add 4 million in salary. That could be a mess.
Point is, these “cheap prospects” won’t always be cheap prospects…at some point they will be highly compensated veterans…or they will leave.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Also
Why does a guy need a front loaded contract? What is wrong with being paid what you are worth as you are worth it? Stupid society. Screw those guys who want front loaded deals. Remind me of the Corbin Bernsen character in Major League.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Its hard to really say they are backLOADED… its not like these guys are getting 550K for a few years then everything at the end. I think the salary simply goes up each season, as the player gets a bit older and the player (as well as the team) is expected to improve. It increases gradually and logically.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 6, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
This is what I believe too.
At D, we will be improved, but below league average still unless we add depth. Doesn’t have to be more then a #3/#4 shutdown d-man with minimal puckmoving skills, but I think we are overall still weaker in our defensive top 6 then the average nhl team. And as bad as out goaltending was last year, I think if the playoffs are a goal, we have to have at least league average defense to have a really good shot at making the playoffs next year.
Makes sense
Probably like a lot of us they aren’t nuts about what our forwards did on the PP point last year. And additionally I think teams with two solid PP units do much better than teams with just one. I know dmen often bridge both, but then they are on the bench for a while after that. I’d rather have two solid pairings that could be productive on the PP. Or at least 1.5.
D & G
on D, we could use an acquisition for depth if nothing else
on G, we led the league in soft goals given up
but we did tighten the team defense half way, and that figures to be better – and our D isn’t bad as it is
key again is who is the starting keeper on opening day against Florida at home – that’s a game we should win unless we get crappy G
Given how we went through 13 D Men last year (14 if you count Streit, and more if you count the 1 game try outs)
I can understand a depth signing. But that’s hardly something you spend or trade a lot for.
Heck, you know what would be a depth signing? Jack Hillen.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
surprised Hillen hasn't been signed by someone
a lot of money has been thrown at a lot worse already
I can understand why we are taking a pass – the league is getting bigger & tougher
by Cary K on Jul 4, 2011 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Which is no reason to not sign Hillen as a depth signing at the least rather than no one.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
they may yet make him an offer
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
The good part right now
…is that Jack’s cost seems pretty low. I’d be surprised if he’s signed for much over $1 mil per year.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 6, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes sense insofar as Garth is exploring all options. Its not like he said “I will not sign this guy”
If it was October and the Isles were short defensemen, then I might say that
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jul 4, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Botta says Garth is going to make a trade for a top d-man
TRADE WHO for WHO???
Doughty for PAP...DUH!
Vote Yes on August 1st.
That six could really use an improvement....we kinda do need another top notch guy.
Streit, MacDonald, Hamonic, Eaton, Mottau, Jurcina isn’t so appetizing for a team with playoff aspirations. Streit is coming off an injury, which always provides a bit of a question mark. MacDonald and Hamonic are very young, so they have to prove they can have sustained success, and the bottom three is very “meh.” Another top-notch blueliner makes this team more playoff-worthy.
......They're young, which means they're likely to get BETTER.
The “Young” means needs to prove something mantra needs to die. Fast.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
My thoughts
(1) I think we’re beng a bit too tough on Eaton and Jurcina. IMO, they make very serviceable 4-6 Dmen.
(2) I think Wishart is going to be a much bigger part of this puzzle than we’re giving him credit for.
(3) Jack Hillen should be resigned if we can get him relatively cheap and on the understanding that we’ll probably lose him through waivers sometime this seaosn.
(4) When we stabilize the D, the goaltending will improve and vice versa.
(5) I’m actually more concerned about the distinct likelihood that AMac and Hamonic regress this season than I am about Eaton/Mottau/Jurcina. When this happens, we have to make sure we don’t start throwing them under the bus.
(6) I think deHaan and Donovan may be closer to NHL ready than we expect.
Bottom line: I do NOT want us throwing away prospects to obtain the services of an RFA Dman without being very careful about what we’re giving up.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jul 5, 2011 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree entirely with thoughts 1 and 2.
Jurcina is fine as the 4th defenseman to start the season, and Eaton and Wishart as 5th/6th. I am more concerned about the overall health. The chance of losing 2 or 3 of the top-6 (at the same time) for the Isles is much higher than most other teams this upcoming season, I think, given the severity of injuries this past year…. I’d be okay if Isles brought back Hillen as insurance, but I’d rather they trade for someone more physical if it is possible without giving up much.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 6, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Great post
Hoping we see Hillen back this week. Mottau and Eaton are gone after next year, and he could step right into that role.
Its Goals against
1) Our offense while scoring goals has a very poor +/-
2) Our Defense is average at best and IMO needs not a quarterback but a big but mobile guy who can clear the crease etc.
3) Our Goal situation may have potential, but with three injured or rehabing candidates, none of them stars is probably the worst in the league. certainly not play-off quality.
My conclusion – The team as currently constituted can not make a play-off run and will result in poor attendance at the NVMC just when we need the excitment to help win taxpayer interest in the new building project. I am against throwing money particularly at the forward position. However the annual excuse of patience while we rebuild is getting stale and worse when we consider the 2015 hard deadline. Fla, NYR, NYD, and others are improved – most independent experts have us closer to the #15 spot than #8. A weak D and G could result in a string of early loses that would induce either a wait till next year approach or desperate moves. I think Snow sees all this and certainly knows the Goal position and what we have or don’t have. A musical chairs approach to that position is not going to make it. Look to Snow to surprise with a preseason or training camp addition of a #1 Goalie. That is where the puck and the buck stops!
how has Florida improved?
They’re worse in goal, with Theodore (and possibly Markstrom) instead of Vokoun. Their D is all right – neither Campbell nor Jovanoski are top-pair quality anymore, but neither was Bryan Allen… Kulikov will improve and help them. But don’t forget they also lost Dennis Weidman Their first line will be Weiss in the middle of Booth and… well… ???? Fleischmann, if he’s healthy. Maybe Kopecky or Upshall. Maybe Skille, maybe Dadonov, maybe any of a dozen question marks.
The Rangers are better with Richards than they were, even with the ridiculous and cap-bending deal. Give credit to Sather – he may overpay out of every opening he owns, but he targeted goal-scoring, which is the big concern. Their youngish D is actually not that bad, considering. Staal, Del Zotto, Erixon, Sauer, and McDonough are all 25 or younger.
The Devils are just the same, unless Larsson makes the opening roster and plays well – that would be no mean feat. Most likely he goes to juniors for a while. But otherwise all they are is older, especially Mar-TAN Bro-DUERRRR. Emrick’s voice can peel paint but can’t turn back time.
I think our division is wide-open. Pittsburgh will probably win it… but I could honestly see any of the other four finishing second. They’re close enough that it wouldn’t take all that much to send one of them on a long bad streak, the way the Isles and Devils had last season. (Consider how well they played from December on.)
I think Washington wins the conference, Boston the other division, and Buffalo, Tampa, and Carolina make the playoffs. That leaves three teams among the Atlantic to beat out Montreal and maybe possibly just maybe Toronto, depending on their goaltending. I think Ottawa, Florida, and Winnipeg are also-ran this season. (Darn it’s weird to put the ’Peg in there.)
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Jul 5, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
First Things First: There needs to be an agreed upon definition as to what constitutes a top 4 D men
I believe the Isle’s Dynasty has one of the best blueprints for D, even in modern times…Potvin was a generational talent…but over all, out of Isles top 6:
Three had offensive capabilties, not four (you can always put a forward back there on PP, and Isles are getting thicker up top) DP, SP and TJ….
Three were physical, defensive Dmen…KM, DL, GL…out of the six, only two were not really physical…SP and TJ, who played the swedish positional game well before the modern era, SP being the Lindstrom of his generation well before Lindstrom…
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 5, 2011 1:21 PM EDT reply actions
Sigh, I seriously need to do another post on how good AMac and Hamonic are
since no one here seems to understand how good they were.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
No need to be snotty
Everyone knows how well they played. They were phenomenal, and it was especially spectacular because A-Mac was only 24 and Hamonic was a rookie.
A top four of defensemen isn’t necessary, but it’s nice to have. I hope that DeHaan can step into the role of Streit’s partner midway through the season, but with the way he’s developing, that’s only a maybe, and a full year at the Bridge (or at least 3/4 of the season) would do him wonders for the long run.
Jurcina and Streit could make a good pair, but Streit might be stuck babysitting him. Mottau is barely good enough to be top six. Eaton might be able to be Streit’s partner; he’s not great but when he’s healthy he can be kind of solid defensively (his health is a question mark, though). Wishart could have a very good camp and emerge as a big body next to Streit that may work well together (and for some reason I can envision that possibility). But everything I’ve said is all a toss-up.
Streit, MacDonald, and Hamonic are fantastic and unheralded defensemen for us. But can they do it all? That’s what I’m unsure of. Streit might not even come back 100%, so our blueline itself is a big question mark. Which is probably why Garth is looking into a acquiring a top four-caliber guy.
by sayvillelax94 on Jul 5, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
and depending too much in October
on a 20 year old sophmore who hasn’t played a full season (Hamonic), another young kid in Amac, and a guy who spent the entire past season recovering from a serious injury may not be the most logical thing to do.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 5, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Once again, lets repharse this:
Relying in October on a 21 year old sophomore who played awesome as a 20 year old rookie.
The myth of “youth means cant be trusted to keep it up” is totally fucking false.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Jul 5, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
CandianIsleslifer has a point.
Hamonic having a sophmore slump wouldn’t be a surprise at all. A number of players go through it. And the Streit part of the argument is the most worrisome part. Who’s to say Streit comes back and can’t fulfill a #1 D-man job anymore?
The youth I don’t want to count on at all though is Wishart or DeHaan in the starting lineup. That I believe would be a bit of a mistake.
Your last sentence is reasonable. Your first is not.
The sophomore slump is a myth; an occurrence thought to be far more common out of confirmation bias and a misunderstanding of how good players were in their rookie year in the first place.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Jul 5, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hamonic will be fine most likely
he’s a rock
what we don’t have room for is more injuries on D
hence the need for a Top 4 D-man
the slump is more of an adjustment period
Guys figure out what works against you, and you have to re-adapt. Sometimes it happens in the second season; sometimes earlier or later. JT didn’t slump anywhere in his sophomore year, that’s for sure.
Part of this is that “sophomore slump” sounds good on the tongue. “Junior jitters” is just stupid.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Sophomore slump only comes into play if your rookie season success was based on luck
Hamonic’s was not. He’ll be great again.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
not true paul, luck has nothing to do with it: it is talent, hard work, experience, learning from mistakes
in my opinion, hamonic is head and shoulders Isles top D prospect…but he is still a prospect….not an experienced veteran
go to nhl stats, look up players individual records and stats…you’ll find even the best kids who came into the league had to go through growing pains, especially D as it is a more difficult position to learn. Hamonic played what half a season? and with the Isles top defensive D man. There were even ppl who wanted to throw Drew Doughty under the bus after the youngster made some mistakes, hit some bumps. luck had nothing to do with it. talent, experience. hamonic’s nhl experience is extremely limited. if Isles go into season with Streit, Amac and Hamonic as their “top 4” it is not b/c that was the preferred choice. to have chosen that would have meant Snow did not do his job.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 7, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Take Myers for example. His rookie year he was great, but had some “puck luck” go his way. This past year he was better, but didn’t get as much “puck luck” early in the season, so it looked like he was slumping when his possession game was improved.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 7, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh. I'll write on this within the month.
There is a lot of luck in sports, and hockey is no exception. For example, when a player gets a goal when the puck redirects off his stick….when the puck was going in anyhow, that looks like a goal in the stats. But in essence it’s luck.
A lot of things are like that. A LOT. Luck, well really random variance, plays a huge role in sports, and that’s why when people go deeper into the statistics, they try and find out which stats are the best at showing the true talent/contributions of a player, and that strip out as much luck as possible.
Also, I think the Isles preferred plan this offseason was for sure to have AMac, Streit, and Hamonic as 3 of their top 4. Whether they planned to improve the 4th slot is another question.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
And FTR, this isn't totally correct either.
Some rookies have “legit” first seasons and then seem to regress the next year (assuming the 2nd year’s regression isn’t luck caused.) It can happen. But luck/random-variance is a key factor in the majority of “sophomore slump” cases.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Is it considered a sophomore slump if the player continually regresses after their rookie season?
Or is it that it turns out they were a bad hockey player.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
let me get this straight, have some caution, get nasty?...who coined the term "Sophmore Jinks" And why?
any making up things that no one said, such as they can’t be trusted because their young??? Garik, why are you like that?
Hamonic looks like he is the real deal and will be something…at the same time, how many top notch young defenseman have been very good, had a step back, a reset…luke schenn comes to mind…at the end of the day, Hamonic is not a Potvin, and to say it is not possible that it could happen to him…hhmmm, did I coin the term “sophmore jinks?” i don’t think so. Amac has also had injuries the past few years…although I don’t think a foot injury should be something that is a repeat problem, but Striet is coming off a serious injury, and there may very well be issues the Isles are not disclosing. that is the entire rationale for fans to look at all possibilities.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 6, 2011 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Luke Schenn's Rookie Season was nowhere near as good as Hamonic's
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
but he was younger, started earlier
point is though, snow as gm has to think about every possible case senario and prepare. that hamonic may/probably – probability? of hitting a few bumps in the road along the way in his development towards his prime years is more normal than unusual….but then again, maybe he’s the above average/normal player where that never happens??? who knows
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 6, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He's also never had a season as good as Hamonic's rookie season.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
schenn was only a young D i used as an example…personally, i am happy with bailey/hamonic over schenn
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 6, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Canadian,
I think the point Garik is making(and correct me if I’m wrong) is that Hamonic performed at such a high level at such a young age that instead of expecting regression, we should continue to expect him to only get better.
As for the sophomore slump itself, that is nothing more then an easy media meme they fall back on when a second year player slumps. While there will always be variation as to each players’ level of play, the idea that after a phenomenal rookie year all of a sudden that player should be expected to hit a sophomore slump is completely unfounded.
Great players perform at elite levels consistently over the course of their career, whereas lesser players tend to have their performances fluctuate.
Based on Garik’s analysis, it would seem that Hamonic falls into the former category.
i got the point, didn't care for the language, but the other points are just is valid
namely, no one has a crystal ball…it is snow’s job as GM to follow due diligence, etc., etc. the point of stating the “sophmore jinks” (one reason for it is that teams adapt to a player once they become familar with that players game, habits) is obviously not to suggest that it is a science, and sure media like to use it b/c it is convenient, but it does demonstrate a fact about the nhl…there is a learning curve in the nhl, i do not know of too many players – no matter how great, that didn’t go through that…simple question, is it probable that hamonic may have some bad games – some growing pains? of course it is, history itself has proven that time and time again. does it mean hamonic will? no, season hasn’t even started, but i’ll bet anyone hamonic will make his share along the way to getting to his prime…i have high hopes for hamonic, but i am more reserved on what i would pencil him in for as far as expectations for next year go.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 7, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Talent Drop-Off
Streit (if healthy), Amac and Hamonic are solid defenseman that can play defense and score.
Jurcina has a great shot but hardly uses it. Is not terribly physical. But for some reason the team plays well when he is in the game.
Wishart has to improve his staking, positioning and hitting. He is a great passer. Part of the issue is confidence as well. He seemed to improve as the season concluded priority to getting hurt.
CDH is a work in progress.
The rest (Eaton, Mottau, Katic, etc.) are fill in players until CDH, Donovan and Mayfield come of age.
I absolutely think we need an additional defenseman to solidify our backline and improve our PP. Someone physical who can put some fear into defenders. Besides Hamonic are defense lacks growl.
Milburied
My fear is that Garth Snow tries to speed up the rebuild by trading away good talent to make the team better now at the risk of being great later. I say “stay the course” and let the prospects develope. It won’t be long before we have a really good team to root for.
by Tietj29 on Jul 6, 2011 7:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I disagree, IF we want to make the playoffs this year, we need a top 4 Dman
Sure, we have some young very good defenceman and we have Streit returning, Eaton returning, Okposos playing the full year, etc… but still, we need high end experienced skill on the back end. Remember, we finished 4th last in the whole league last year. We weren’t even close to making the playoffs. We were terrible defensively, terrible. Yes, our goaltending sucked but it ain’t getting much better this year. Yes, Streit returning is a huge help, as he was great 2 years ago, but was he really a number 1 D? Maybe. We he be a number 1 d on a playoff team? Not sure. Can we expect the same from him now that he’s older and coming off major surgery. Probably not. Yes, Amac and Hammer played well last year, but are they truley first line pairs in the nhl right now? They could be, but probably not. Are they a good 2nd pair? Hopefully, but i’m not completely certain about that either, atleast on playoff teams. IF we want to make the playoffs next year, we not only need our young players to get better, but we need better players with experience. If we want to be Stanley Cup contenders in the next couple of years, then we need to let our young players develop in developmental leagues. If we’re happy mucking around the 10th spot, then let’s go with our roster. I love the direction of this team, we’re stacked with very good young prospects, but if we want to make the playoffs next year, we need atleast one more piece to our puzzle and it has to be a top 4 D. Otherwise, we’re going to need alot of very good things to happen in order for us to make it to the playoffs, especially given how many Eastern teams have gotten better over the passed couple of weeks.
Late to the party
Once again thanks for the research garik.
One cannot continue to believe if everything can go wrong, it will. It could ruin one’s sanity. Ergo, Streit is likely to be effective-still as a top D. And if he somehow loses a step, fear not, for a young, improving MacHamonic Duo are already playing like a GOOD top pairing. I’m not yet sold on the Jurcina Anamoly, but between Wishart, de Haan, and Donovan I’m not terribly concerned.
My prediction: Wishart, Eaton, and Jurcina all take turns at top 4 minutes, with Mottau as #7.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Piece of Avery phone...
I wanted to add that while I don’t wanna rush de Haan or Donovan, I still agree we aren’t that desperate for a top 4 D…but it sure would be NICCCCCCE!
I just wonder what Garth is actually considering giving up in trade for this mysterious top 4 D. Let’s see what we got before we give up on one of our prized prospects.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Jul 8, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've read some your comments ...
before and I’m pretty sure I agreed with most of what you wrote.
That’s why I’m so surprised to disagree so strongly with what you’re saying here.
I have been a defense-first advocate ever since ‘build from the goal out" first took hold as a foundation philosophy at the Coliseum. Obviously the game has since changed. A lot. But not so much that the fundamental idea of stopping the other team from scoring is not still a foolproof way to build a contender. I think that applies to MLB (ie. pitching, pitching, pitching),the NFL and the NBA too (at least the NBA I used to watch).
I’m not sure the specific label “TOP 4” defensman is so applicable. If you have REAL depth on the backline then you should be able to rely on 3 pairs who are solid in their own end and move the puck up ice reliably and quickly. If 2 or 3 of those guys also provide dynamic offense once the puck is up-ice, that’s a great asset and a big bonus.
It’s true that currently there seems to be good depth on D for this team. There are a lot of names on the roster with a D next to them. Given how we’ve seen depth at the position literally dissolve for the last 3 years due to injury, and more importantly, who those names actually are, I don’t think this particular “depth” translates to a strong overall plus for this team. Specifcally, the kind of D-man that is still lacking – (I’m starting to bore even myself with this same old song but it still applies) – is a couple of big D-men who also are TOUGH and have the mindset to clear the freakin crease and knock some bodies into the dasher, especially down low. Hamonic is the only guy who fits that role. Despite their size, Jurcina, who I like overall (despite his fragility), and Wishart, who I’m far from sold on, don’t PLAY to their size. That is to say, the way they play, they might as well be 5’10" rather the 6’4" they’re listed at. I think this team needs 2 guys for that role to get to contender level, and if the GM needs to give up what may seem like a lot to get it, he should. And I think he will.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lighthouse Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Islanders Schedule
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
- Friday’s Three Stars: Devils head to Final; Brodeur, Kovalchuk the difference in Game 6
- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
