Islanders History: Revisiting the Jason Blake-Alexei Yashin Connection
by Dominik on Jul 25, 2011 2:46 PM EDT
in Islanders of Yesteryear
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I am one of those Islanders fans who liked Jason Blake well enough but believed at the time that parting ways with him (given presumed contract demands) after he put up 40 goals in his walk year at age 33 was the right call.
There were a lot of circumstances that go into that argument, and we've rehashed them before, and can rehash again in comments, but in short his (still) career-high shooting percentage that year of 13.1% that season was a solid sign not to expect 30, much less 40 goals in one season again.
Still, let us be fair to the man. With the recent and predictably annual Alexei Yashin buzz, the suggestion has come up that Yashin "made" Blake's career year. But ... did he? Thanks to the glory of Hockey-Reference.com and all the saints who make it possible, we can check our memories against the official record with a hop, click and a jump:
Before we get to the figures, remember this was also Yashin's final year as an Islander, and injuries limited him to [sorry, massive typo, now fixed] caused him to miss 24 games. That will prove important in our research.
Blake and Yashin Hockey Card Stats
Okay, before we get started, one thing that sticks out is the 14 powerplay goals. That, along with the shooting percentage high, stand out as things difficult to repeat. But we'll get to the powerplay later.
For now, Blake's scoring log for that year, thanks to this feature at Hockey-Reference.com, tells us:
Blake goals on which Yashin received an assist: 13 (of 40 Blake goals)
Yashin goals on which Blake assisted: 6 (of 29 Blake assists)
Islanders goals on which both Blake and Yashin received assists: 3
What about the powerplay? How many of Blake's PPG did Yashin factor into?
Blake PPG assisted by Yashin: 6 (of 14 Blake PPG)
So Yashin was a factor, as anyone who watched them play together can recall. But he wasn't the only factor.
Remember that Yashin was injured much of the second half of the season, and the Islanders brought in Randy Robitaille late (December) and Ryan Smyth very late (March). What'd they do for Blake?
In 18 games, Smyth assisted on three Blake goals and scored one on which Blake assisted. (Smyth had 15 points total.)
From January onward, seven of Blake's goals -- all at even strength -- were assisted by Robitaille. They also combined on four other goals (three by Robitaille, one by Chris Simon).
Yashin's main sustained injury absence stretched from late January all the way to early March, during which Blake scored 13 of his 69 points and six of his 40 goals in 16 games.
I am refraining from tossing up a bunch of percentages here, because short samples lead to deceptively large shifts in percentages just through one goal added or subtracted. [For example, 6 goals in 16 games = 0.38 goals/GP. 5 goals in 16 games = 0.31 goals/GP].
But I think the record shows that in Blake's career year he scored with and without Yashin. So, did Yashin make Blake's career year? No -- though Yashin helped a whole host of Islanders while putting up 50 points in 58 games. However, did good players like Yashin, Ryan Smyth, the underrated Robitaille and the perennially solid Mike Sillinger (combined with Blake on seven goals) make Blake's career year possible? Yes. You can also include the 2006-07 form of players like Tom Poti and Miroslav Satan, who also appear frequently on Blake's scoring log from that year.
A combination of strong centers and wingers -- along with some good shooting luck at the right time -- helped Blake compile a season that would be unfair to ever expect him to repeat. Yashin was certainly a factor, but not the only factor. Which brings me back to a few truisms for building a hockey team I find myself repeating often:
Luck happens. Depth creates (good) and mitigates against (bad) luck. Compiling quality players creates depth.
Easier said than done.
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I agree that is was wise to let Blake walk
Blake’s high shooting percentage in ‘07 suggests to me that luck played a big part in him reaching 40 goals. He didn’t do anything really different that year and it’s hard to believe that his shot and release improved significantly from the year before. His TOI that year was actually a little lower than it was the year before. His career shooting percentage is around 8%. His 40 goal season is a bit of an outlier and the higher shooting percantage is the only number that was significantly different from the year before so I think it’s reasonable to think that he got some breaks and lucky goals. It’s easy to discount just how much of a roal luck plays in any sport.
His age was another big reason why resigning Blake would be a risk. 33 is old in hockey years, and while it was reasonable to expect that he had a few more productive years left in the tank the bottom line is that the older the player, the more likely he is get injured or start to decline. I know in other sports a correlation has been established between size and the trajectory of a player’s decline- the smaller the athlete the quicker he declines. Don’t know if such a relationship exists in hockey but its a distinct possiblity. Blake’s game was built around his speed and speed is one of the first things to start to go in older players. Blake ended up having one good and one very good season in his three years in Toronto and after two injury shortened seasons had a pretty good year last year. Still, he has never been close to 40 goals since leaving the Islanders and there really wasn’t any statistical evidence he ever again would be a 40 goal scorer.
Ah 2007...
The last year that I actually enjoyed and that felt like real hockey season. No rooting for the team to lose, no talk of draft picks, no trading veterans for 7th round picks and Snow being called ‘brilliant’ for it, no making minor accomplishments when they were way out of it (Best record after Dec 14th!!!) into big deals….
Just a REAL hockey season with great storylines, new players (MAB) coming in and contributing, DP carrying the team in February (and getting booed for it), and ending with me hating everyone and everything associated with the city of Buffalo…
I miss 2007
I'm way more excited about our team in 2011 than I am about our team in 2007
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Jul 25, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Backchecking
no trading veterans for 7th round picks and Snow being called ‘brilliant’ for it
I must’ve missed that episode.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
i think he’s referring to the Rob Davison trade from the Sharks in Feb 2008. Not sure who he’s alleging called it ‘brilliant’.
Cody was selected with Isles’ own 7th round pick.
Well, however we got Cody Rosen was brilliant.
Let’s not split hairs here, Donnie.
by Les Beaver on Jul 25, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True.
The Rosen pick was something only Bill Brasky could pull off.
Ahhh, Brasky. A 10-foot monster who slept with all of our wives!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Taro Tsujimoto
Was an 11th round pick of the Sabres in 1974 and is finally getting his own hockey card this year. So there is no such thing as a bad late round pick and no timeline for greatness. Please tell me Cody Rosen wasn’t a better pick than Taro?
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
That explains that smell of
after-shave in my bedsheets
I think he was just speaking to the concept of trading veterens for prospects and/or draft picks
Like Wisnewski, Roloson etc. What’s important to remember though is that it’s often about getting anything in return for looming free agents or shedding salary. It’s not that the player in question is worth a 7th tound pick, its just that a 7th round pick is better than nothing. These trades of veterens for draft picks usually only make sense in the entire context of the situation.
Anyone who cites Marc Andre Bergeron as why the 2007 team was better
Isn’t an authority on who I want to look to for advice on what the Islanders are doing wrong. Yeah, MAB, great storyline there, pal. Should of left him where we found him.
In all fairness
That better team then lost to a better team. But even with the Islanders roster being as competitive as it was, in my opinion it would have been a little much to ask them to take down the President’s Trophy winners in the first round. The Isles played hard that series, especially Blake. Didn’t like the Nassau County faithful throwing trash though.
That was a tough one
Even in 2007 I was never able to conjure sustained hatred for Buffalo or the Sabres. Having a close friend squatting my couch each playoff year to root for the Sabres probably is a factor in that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The trash throwing was't cool..
and I was embarrassed by it as an Islander fan. Still, hockey fans are notorious for doing dumb things (ie: Vancouver) and in the pantheon of stupid acts by hockey fans the trash throwing is pretty low on the list.
Sabres Then Went on to Win the Cup in 2007, Right?
Oh, I’m sorry. They still haven’t won one. Oh, well.
Disagree
That 2007 team had talent and was competitive but there really wasn’t much of a ceiling there. We had a lot of older players and a very weak farm system. Most of the prospects and young players we had seemed to have an upside of complimetary players and we had no core to build around. It was nice to watch a team win but there just wasn’t much there to get excited about, and a collapse seemed imminent. As it turned out the collapse happened at a good time because Tavares was the pefect type of player to build a team around. I agree with fabtraption and metzfan22 that the 2011 team is especially exciting.
If you don't like the way this team is being built there is a better team for you to follow
If your interested in teams that overpay for underperforming veterens that don’t care about the draft or prospects or patiently building a winning team the proper way and just try to sneak into the playoffs to lose in the first round there is a team who play within 30 miles of the Islanders that fit this description perfectly. They wear blue and red and play at some place call madison square something or other. Check them out! Meanwhile, us real Islander fans will enjoy watching a winning team being built the right way, because everyone knows the draft is the only way to get quality star players, not overrated, overpaid losers like Marc Andre Bergeron who was just about the worst defensive defenseman to ever lace up skates. Go enjoy the Rangers and let me know how that works out for you, dog.
I miss 1980 (How was that team built, by the way?)
Blake had guts and heart
Later tested by illness. Point is that Yashin IMO had more talent but lacked the heart. His sheer ability got him the points and the dough, while Blake had a modicum of the first and plenty of the latter. Example of having both is Oventchkin.
"Guts" and "Heart" are about perception, not reality
Smaller players have shorter strides, their legs are contantly going and they appear to “work harder” than taller players. This is really almost an optical Illusion. Next time you watch a game watch shorter players versus taller players, you will immediately see what I am talking about. Really we don’t know much about Jason Blake and Alexei Yashin off the ice, who works harder, who has more heart etc. All we do know is that both are talented and productive players. They are both professional athletes who are motivated by money. That is not a critism, its just the fact of the matter. All the time in sports I see fans saying Player A has more heart, is tougher, works harder etc. than Player B and most of the time it is about the biases and prejudices of the fans. Its also often about the role of the player in question. The quick little contact hitter versus the slugging superstar. The third line grinder versus the first line, playmaking center. My opinion is that most professional athletes take their jobs seriously and work hard.
I agree that smaller players "appear" to be working harder
Also, players with smaller limbs can adjust and react quicker than larger players. (Larger players have to work harder to make sharp enough turns.) One prime example is Chara. He works as hard as anyone, but he may seem sluggish compared to some smaller players. Sure, his reach helps him in some circumstances, but unless he is moving his legs well, it wouldn’t matter.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 25, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Chara is the perfect example
of a players who appears much slower than he actually is because of his size. Mario Lemieaux, Eric Lindros, Alexie Yashin were other guys who at times seemed almost disinterested and skating at half-effort, while guys like Theo Fluery and Jason Blake seemed to skate so hard their legs were going to fall off.
by MatthewM11 on Jul 25, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jason Blake
What made that year for Jason Blake was a series fo events…and LUCK played a very small role.
1. Ted Nolan evaluated his assets and shifted responsibilities. Blake was goal scorer in college and much like Comeau does now, he put up very good numbers as a third liner/PK guy. Nolan took away his defensive responsibilities (as a checking line wing and a PKer) and [I guess] told him to use all that energy creating scoring chances.
2. The Islanders move to a more traditional, less mobile defense… but they do have guys like Poti and campoli who can move the puck forward. This removes a little more of the back-check and gives Jason more Neutral/Offensive zone time. Let’s not forget that Jason was one of the best forcheckers in the team’s history. He was quick, and played with a little edge and LOT OF MOTOR. He probably would have been a nice tool for Gordon to have.
3. If I remember correctly Yashin was having one of his best first 20 games… so maybe it was Blake that was making Yashin’s year. Then the injury came, and subsequently Nolan questioning his ticker. That team was put together with duct tape and gorilla glue… yashin didn’t fit that mold… and I don’t think anybody was in love with Blake either. The difference was Blake came to work every day, whether he was crushed the night before, or knew he was going to get pounded that night… he just brought his little bag of bones to work every night… and competed.
4. He was negotiating his contract all year. It was his walk year. He had put up decent numbers, but Nolan allowed him the opportunity to put up great numbers… and he ran with it.
AND THIS IS WHERE IT ALL GOES WRONG… AND WE SEE IT TODAY AS WELL….
We are negotiating his contract like it was our money. Like the Islanders were in cap trouble. Like they needed to be scared of REWARDING somebody because they would get little in return… NO what happens is the two worst contracts or paying big dollars for absolutely NOTHING…. CONTRACTS that were given out before the benefactors had contributed anything to the team. The guy who puts up good numbers for 3+ years and has an AMAZING year is getting chiseled down to what CAN YOU DO FOR ME NEXT YEAR.
Well… that worked out in the Islander’s favor to some extent… OR DID IT?
1. I think this had a lot to do with the 2006-07 EXODUS. Yashin gets bought out. Smyth walks, Poti, career year, walks. Kozlov, career year, leaves. Hill… drugs… done. Queue the circus music….
2. They have not been able to sign a top IN DEMAND UFA since. NONE. Steit was HUGE RISK at $25M that worked out… but there was nobody else willing to give him that kind of money. Every other offer was basically laughed at if the target could get 10-25% less somewhere else.
3. Blake didn’t start out an Islander… but HE BECAME AN ISLANDER… and was allowed to walk. We could have embraced, but chose to exclude… He was 33… but he had a better motor than most 26 year olds. His own teammates seemed to exclude him from reigndeer games. That seemed to be held over from the Sterling era… who knows when and/or why it happened but I do remember an instance between him and Snow making the papers when they were both players… that is a problem when your teammate becomes your boss. If he’s not your buddy (see other new england goaltenders) you might not get that contract that lasts until your 40 for $4.5M per. Maybe some day DP will score 40 goals for us… cause he sure as hell isn’t going to stop that many.
Sorry… touchy subject with me. Blake was one of those guys (Aucoin, Scatchard, Bergy, Dubie, Hillen, Asham and possibly Comeau) that I really liked and performed for the team and was allowed to go. Nobody else on that list scored 40 goals though… and the team hasn’t been back to the playoffs since.
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"Like it's our money"
I concede I’m cheap with the hypothetical funds by nature, but age 33 is just too late to have an anomalous big year that garners long-term, big mounds of my Fantasy GM Monopoly money. I know we can’t know what he was asking for in winter — and man, it couldn’t have been as high as what Toronto unloaded on him — but whether you’re spending to the cap or spending on a budget you can only afford so many luxurious overpayments. The Isles already had a few; meanwhile that next contract has pained both of his subsequent employers.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I can see the whole picture...
…AND I DID NOT ARGUE THIS POINT THEN…but see it now. It may be better to REWARD a player who has been producing for you on the cheap, rather than let him go because his new contract wouldn’t be worth what he is asking. It didn’t work out to be that simple because TOR gave him 27 year old/30 goal money… the amount AND the term were impossible to match for the budgeted Islanders.
But once it was clear that he would hit 20 for the fourth year as an Islander… and that was before Xmas… then THE COMITTEE could have offered him $3M for 3 years and I bet everybody walks away happy with that.
THE COMITTEE was the problem. Players didn’t want to have to deal with 5 GMs and the owner. When you’re on the phone it’s like you’re always on conference call and you never know who’s in the other room. I remember reading articles that winter about how jason LOVED Long Island and wanted to stay.
(by the way… who was setting up those stories while the GM is trying to negotiate a contract… that same person did it with Sutton as well)
How many players walked away from the organization saying, “Wang gave an enigma $8M for 10 years, and his lapdog $4.5M for 15 years, then wants to get all frugal on the rest of us…I’m outta here”.
I think Snow has had to go a long way to repair ties with agents who had to deal with Milbury and then THE COMITTEE. I’d bet a lot of them just screen his calls because Milbury was such a shitbag… and they aren’t doing their clients any great disservice by taking a budget team out of the conversation.
This is why THIS YEAR was so important. He still hasn’t made that HUGE UFA mistake (or at least risk), but he has REWARDED guys for doing a good job. He has made some “questionable” release’s this year in Marty, Jack and Zeke, but they are way more rational than ones in the past. Sutton with no defensive depth at all was one that makes me wonder…. and the whole Yashin buyout is still one that defies logic. Yeah… in hindsight, not a biggie… but at the time..when you know you don’t have shit in the bank, can you really make these decisions because the player isn’t worth what he’s asking. I think the team might have been a little better last year with Sutton than the chef… or Dylan Reese.
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Aye, I've always thought your lens on this by Christmas time was plausible
And thanks (sincerely) for bringing it up again — it saved me saying something like, “for a different side, see what JP said last time I brought this up.”
It’s just I’ve always assumed at mid-season Blake’s agent was doing as agents do and saying, “We don’t need to settle now. You’re on a career pace. This is your walk year. You’ve busted your tail to get to this point. Don’t let them undersell you now.” I just pictured those whispers and admittedly bought into the supposed locker room characterization of Blake as a bit high on himself. So I was never convinced there was a reasonable deal on the table.
Which is odd, because in normal life I tend to sympathize with a billionaire’s employees. But in sports, where an agent has the capacity to do way more than a union rep is legally allowed to do, I just see them all too happy to play desperate owner/GMs off one another in a business those owners don’t understand, as it’s not their forte.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Points Taken...
…but now we see the longer term contracts for guys that have contributed. We see VALUE of contracts negotiated early… and guys who are CONTRIBUTING are usually on the agenda to keep around.
Ever since that mass exodus Snow has learned that the full service supermarket isn’t open to him, and every year he has become more cautious in that regard. (Except with Marty… and his injury history, even recent, could have been a bigger factor).
So I believe you may be correct about the negotiations of 2006-07, but they have definitely had an affect on future business around the organization.
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I see the value of doing it early -- but for young guys only
I mean, I don’t blame Blake if, after all he went through to “arrive,” he wanted a 4-5 year deal or he wanted to make huge bank. (I don’t know if that was a priority; I assume it was or assume his agent talked up that scenario.) But I oppose long deals like that to guys entering their mid 30s, especially if their credentials took a decade to establish.
I definitely like rewarding guys who were part of the plan, but for your Witt, Martinek, Weight-age players, for me it needs to be on a short-term, then-extend basis.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Ageed...
but a guy like Blake is a good value at $3M/3Yrs… even in TOR. I think the $4M/5 years was insane, But I’m happy that Blake got a payday. I am sad that the Islanders were left with a bag of rocks… like Comrie… probably a closer replacement was Sim… and look how that worked out, especially when you remove Nolan.
WHAT A MESS… and Snow has to take some of the blame for that, even if it was the comittee’s doing.
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Why should Snow be blamed for not re-signing a player who wanted more money and a longer contract?
Blake was a great Islander, but if I’m not mistaken, he took the money and ran with it. If my memory serves me correct, Blake was being offered something along the lines of $9m/3 years. I remember there being some squabbles at the time about the length of the contract – Snow did not want to commit an extra year to him knowing that he would most likely be at his least effective. So Blake went to the team that was giving him the most money AND the longest term. Good for Blake to go to the team that was willing to give him an absolutely ridiculous contract, but I’m glad Garth didn’t make that move for him.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Jul 26, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That year THE MESS...
… was way deeper than Blakes contract. It was about the EXODUS. It was about the Smyth trade. It was about the RDP contract. It was about hiring Smith. It was about hiring Nolan. It was about firing Smith. It was about the committee. It was about pandering to the media about how the Islanders couldn’t sign free agents because of the building… with the circus music playing so louldy in the background you couldn’t hear him say it. It was about creating what would become the worst hockey team in the NHL.
Is Snow to be commended for that?
If my memory serves me correct, Blake was being offered something along the lines of $9m/3 years
Memory of what? Was there ever a december or january offer leaked? Do you know jason, Garth or Jason’s agent. I really don’t ever remember reading anything about offers during the season, and the $3M price tag surely went out the window after the 40 goal season.
but a guy like Blake is a good value at $3M/3Yrs… even in TOR. I think the $4M/5 years was insane, But I’m happy that Blake got a payday. I am sad that the Islanders were left with a bag of rocks… like Comrie… probably a closer replacement was Sim… and look how that worked out, especially when you remove Nolan.
Did you even read that? My argument is purely speculation given the events that surrounded that winter, and then the summer offer. I really can’t blame either side for what eventually happened, but Snow’s failure to sign Blake left him with stugots on July 2nd.
Oh… he did have something… a pissed off coach, a crazy owner, and a third round draft pick.
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We don't know if Blake's decision was purely financial
but (which I addressed in a post above) I do think that there were reasons why resigning Blake to a big contract would be risky. As it has worked out he hasn’t been terrible since leaving the Island but he also hasn’t been the repeat 30+ goal scorer many were thinking he might be after scoring 40 in ’07.
Did you miss the whole cancer thing...
…and the fact that the team he went to wasn’t much better than the one he left.
I think a healthy Blake puts up between 25-30 in a similar role for 2-3 years… but that’s obviously speculation. One thing that I believe is that CONTINUITY would have helped the team… but that is a chicken/egg thing. In our case, with a limited budget and no hope of signing top free agents continuity probably leads to continued mediocrity.
So… we can’t really hammer commenters who pound on Snow for being the benefactor of his own failure.
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by JPinVA on Jul 26, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Aucoin and Scatchard were great
Aucoin had one or two seasons where he was Isles’ best defenseman. Scatchard played hard every shift.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Jul 25, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Loved both those guys
One season Aucoin lead the league in TOI, I think averaging close to 30 min in playing time. He was poised in every imaginable situation. Scratch was an underrated checking forward who also had a very good offensive season for Isles.
Scatchard's Only Problem was That He was a Better Person than He was a Skater
And that was too bad because he was a real class act.
You know him?
He was a good two-way center with some surpisingly productive offensive years. Really was a good hockey player. I can’t speak to his personality though.
Aucoin was incredible
Feared he was a fluke in Vancouver, and he proved to be so much more.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Interesting take
A couple things:
1 – you’re extrapolating an awful lot on your suppositions of what happened and why
and
2 ties back into 1 – there’s an awful lot of angst there for a player that was marginal at best, regardless of his attributes.
On a different tack – can’t believe we’re still discussing these players from an era of mediocrity that is well past. Time for Snow to make a move – and it better not be Yashin…
Angst against who?
I didn’t pick up any angst in the article, and Dom cited statistics to back up his argument. I wouldn’t call either player marginal- you are talking about a wing who averaged over 25 goals and 60 points in his prime and a center who was close to a PPG player during his. Don’t know what your definition of “marginal” is, but it’s wildly different than mine. I think of marginal players as replacement level or borderline repalcement level players, not productive, top six skaters.
Besides the fact that I found this article to be very interesting, and does have implications for our current team (you learn from the past) this is dom’s blog, and I don’t think it’s our place to tell him what we should or shouldn’t be discussion. If people weren’t interested, they wouldn’t be commenting.
I think that might've been a reply intended for JP's comment
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Oh, that makes more sense, thanks
and my apologies to pennst if that was the case. I know sometimes the reply feature doesn’t work.
Yeah...
I was just gonna ignore it cause I wasn’t sure. Besides you and the guys (non-gender specific guys) the REPLY button is what makes this sight AWESOME!
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Sometimes
the reply button can fail but the “preview” button can make sure your comment is directed at who it’s supposed to be. Otherwise the context of the comment can be lost and it can get confusing.
So now that I have third party confirmation...
…I’ll respond.
1. Yeah… I’m a habitual extrapulator… sue me. For the most part I’ve always blamed what was going on in the winter of what could have been the start of something great for the fall deeper into the abyss. I am definitely not in the majority, but I really liked that team. Those guys were kind of the results of previous f*** ups by the Milbury regime… but Nolan got that bag of bones to dance. Then they just kept the same practices in place by keeping the original mastermind behind the decay to hold a few of the strings. Wangs loyalty to the WRONG people has bitten him time and time again… his bad choices and his inability to recognize them has certainly kept me from being a fan.
2. I had angst towards the period, no doubt. I bring it up because we were talking about that era, were we not. I am a big fan of Snow. I hold no resentment for those choices, and understand that the mistakes (my opinion) he makes now are only in my eyes. His vision is WAY CLEARER than my own… but I don’t feel that way about that period. I don’t think he had control over what was going on and it moved them further backwards.
…and I agree. It is time for a move… but I don’t think it needs to be a BIG move. I really would settle for something similar to the Wiz move of last year. I think that Cappy will make any move better than what happened the previous 3 years.
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by JPinVA on Jul 25, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mostly Agree
That Nolan lead team was a good team, not a great team but a competitive team with some real talent that was fun to watch. Nolan did a great job with what he had to work with, he was a great coach who brought something (which is hard to define) that i didn’t see in previous recent coaches.
Wow, I thought you said “not a big fan of Snow”, glad I re-read because that was were the “mostly” was directed in my subject line. I do think that Snow has had a bit of a learning curve and wasn’t very fond of some of his early moves but I tend to agree that Wang maybe had to much control of the day-to-day when Snow first took over. (I wonder if Wang didn’t choose Snow because he felt he could step over his boundrary as owner with Snow that he couldn’t get away with if he had hired an established GM like Neil Smith) but the last four years I think Snow has done a bang up job.
Couldn’t agree more that a big move isn’t what this franchise needs. It would be more as a token for the fans than as a productive move for the organization and in the end could be counterproductive. I too would rather a move along the lines of a Moulson or a Parenteau. A complimentary player who could serve as a stopgap while the kids devolop on the farm. No need to take on a huge contract for a guy who could turn into an expensive albatross blocking NHL ready prospects stepping up and possibly even preventing us from signing and/or resigning core players. I much prefer overproducing cheap young players like PAP versus overpaid, underperforming vets blocking kids from making the team.
I didn’t get Pennst’s comments when I thought he was referring to Dom’s article, and I still don’t completely get it knowing now it was directed to your above comment. I don’t agree with everything you said in your origional post but I also didn’t find it to be an angst-ridden extrapolated disaster either.
Nolan was a great motivator, but a lot of the credit for technical skills coaching etc., should have gone to John Chabot
by CanadianIsleslifer on Jul 25, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
…not that I have much knowledge of the situation. But I’ve always thought his staff was important… and given THEIR experience I couldn’t understand why people kept saying that Nolan wouldn’t have done well with a younger team.
It turns out that for the most part he’d have done TOO GOOD with whatever team he got. I really don’t think he gets into the playoffs (except for maybe last year), but there’s no way he allows that team… even as bad as it was to be in a position to get Travares. The big haul of 2008 would have been the same though… We could probably have gotten Nino 3 to four picks later in 2009, I can’t see them even trying for Kabanov after his year with Flynn(but would Flynn have been at Moncton), and the subsequent later round picks would have been generally similar.
Trying to figure all that out is futile. It’s like wondering what would have happened if the South had nuclear weapons during the Civil War.
But… what ever happened to Chabot. It looks like (hockeydb) he’s not working as a coach right now.
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Both deserve credit
A coaching staff is a team, and having someone who is a motivator and having someone with more of a technical working knowledge of the game is a good mix, regardless who is head-coach and who is an assistant coach. Its like a ancient Roman battlefield- you have your General going out and motivating his troops and he has his tacticians to confer with about the actual battle plan.
Well put...
Sorry for the SNAFU vis a vis the reply button earlier – posting at work is usually done in a hurry.
As for what you’ve said: Can’t argue your analysis of Wang and his loyalty. Disagree with your assessment of the summer after that year, however. There wasn’t anything worth getting fired up about in the system, and while Nolen did a creditable job working with a patchwork lineup, there was no core veteran talent or leadership once Smythe walked away.
FWIW – we were talking about an era, or at least some of the diehards were – but, ya know, its kinda ancient history now. The team has an opportunity to be pretty good this year if all the pieces fall the right way.
To add...
And I just never thought Blake was very good – my opinion…
That's an opinion that would need to be explained...
It wasn’t like he sucked as an Islander. He was putting up 20+ goals consistently as a middle six PKer… Their styles are vastly different, but the production is similar to Comeau’s this year. I get the whole COZO thing, but an NHLer who puts up 20+ goals in that role DOES NOT SUCK.
Blake had speed, grit, good enough hands and no fear. He was an agitator. Because of his natural abilities he was a very good forechecker and never seemed to ignore his backchecking responsibilities.
I don’t know if he was some kind of diva in the locker room, but something wasn’t right with the guy. On the ice though, I think a team needs at least two Blake’s to be a cup contender. Right now we have Grabner (much better than blake in the talent category.. but the motor is evident, though obviously not consistent)… I think Rhett is a Jason Blake type player as well. That’s where this all leads to in regards to the current.
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by JPinVA on Jul 26, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's hard to argue he wasn't a good hockey player
Not only is there the scoring (finished what, top five in goals scored in 2007?) he was a relentles forechecker, good penalty killer and was strong in the defensive zone.
And that's why I love this stuff
I mean, I wouldn’t have brought up Blake-Yashin if it hadn’t come up in comments recently, where it reminded me I always wanted to check the logs from that year.
But beyond that, disagreements like this are what I love. They’re just interesting. If only I could get a liquor license this is exactly the bar I’d like to run. Or pay my kid to run while I just hang out and shoot the breeze about Rocky Marciano.
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by mikb on Jul 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone see this from Schmuck Daddy's Lambert?
I REALLY HATE THIS GUY!!!!!!!!!
From Puck Daddy:
“New York Islanders: Evgeni Nabokov(notes) will definitely be with an NHL team this season. If you want to call the Islanders that.”
Nothing But Internet Snark
Maybe it’s because I’m a fossil, but I hate having to wade through a lot of snarky crap on the internet. And Lambert certainly is that. Don’t these people realize that they come off as complete horses’ you know whats?
Yeah it pisses me off, and it's not just Lambert either
The Canadien press loves to sh-t on the Islanders, they make the franchise sound like a joke. Snow gets a lot of snark thrown his way; Wang promoting him from back-up goalie to GM was a bizarre move, but he has done a great job and no longer deserves the criticism.
He's kind of a dick to every team though. It's not just Islander-centric.
But is he a snarky bastard, and I’m not sure what the point of it is. I stopped reading a lot of his stuff. I still like Leahy, Wysh and Bourne though. But the comments section is godawful.
In all fairness
once our beloved Isles manage to make the playoffs again, a lot of the snark will dry up.
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Blake
yeah, Jason proved very productive with Dominic Moore on his line in Toronto too. But if Yashin returns — they should bring back Blake too. That will be the perfect ending to my book even though NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BELIEVE IT WAS NON-FICTION!!!
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by 7th Woman on Jul 26, 2011 7:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That is awesome!
I really like Cappy… but I’d really love to see where this team would be with Nolan at the helm. I want to be on the pre-sale/autographed copy list for that book!
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
