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10 Questions on Islanders/Nassau Coliseum Plan

That's the hope, anyway. Fingers crossed.

UPDATED with link/segment of NIFA statement sent to Newsday, plus video from press scrums after the jump...

Today's press conference about the plan for a $350 million Nassau Coliseum replacement (plus $50 million minor league ballpark) was for cheerleading, for politicians patting themselves on the back, and for slowly releasing details bit by bit. No doubt for Charles Wang, who's put his capital into this thing for 11 years hoping for a resolution, it represents -- finally -- a roadmap to an answer. Here is the official County press release on the matter.

But there are questions, not all of them answered, with the plan. We'll try to address those here.

Star-divide


1. Where will the Islanders Play?

Same location as they are now. (Well, nudged one arena footprint over, as the new Nassau Coliseum would be right next to the current Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum.) No Queens, no Brooklyn, no Suffolk, no Quebec, no K.C. or any other unfounded rumored site you've read about in Canadian "make it 30!" media.

 

2. What Else is Involved?

From the perspective of Nassau County -- and remember, the County has wanted something developed at this "hub" Coliseum site for decades -- this involves building a new arena (and thus retaining an event/entertainment center, now improved), plus a proposal for a $50 million minor league ballpark "nearby."

County Exec. Ed Mangano also announced that they are pushing for the Shinnecock casino to be at Belmont, which seems to make the most sense if there's a casino going anywhere. Though a separate issue requiring different approvals, that proposal is no doubt intended to boost County employment and revenues.

 

3. Who Will Pay for the New Islanders Arena?

Heh, getting to the tough questions so soon? The pledge is that the business operators themselves would pay the County, through a share of revenues plus sales tax generated. So attendees to these events will be indirectly footing a lot of the bill.

What Mangano proposed today is essentially what was reported by Newsday overnight: A $400 million referendum to finance construction of a new arena and minor-league ballpark (the latter of which, Mangano hopes, could be built sooner and provide revenues sooner). If the county legislature approves, the referendum would go to voters Aug 1.

Said Mangano: "Private financing is not available. We're asking the taxpayers to invest in their County."

Although at first glance this is like any other bond-for-stadiums scenario, Mangano took pains to explain this "wouldn't cost taxpayers" a cent. [This is where you put on your Hat of Suspicion, and wave your Flag of Red.] Argument being that revenue "sharing" and sales tax generated by these venues would pay off the bonds -- and no tax increase would result. We'll see.

Though this and the rally itself involved a year's worth of political spin, it is to a certain extent true and necessary at this point: The County has to develop that land to leverage it somehow, and politics and economy leave few alternatives at this point, while the 2015 countdown clock continues to tick. (Leave aside that Wang spent millions on his own proposal to develop the land privately, only to be blocked by the Town of Hempstead, which is now apparently on board with a $400 million bond referendum...)

At the open press conference, Dee of 7th Woman blogship asked Mangano if this means Wang is still essentially paying for the Coliseum. Mangano replied: "In essence, Mr. Wang will be paying for the Coliseum." Not that he will own it, mind you. But the plan includes some sort of 30-year lease for the Islanders. And significant "revenue streams" from the Islanders/arena will pay back the bonds.

Or according to the official release:

In return, the Islanders will compensate residents by paying the County a share of each dollar generated at the new sports arena. Similarly, all contracts to operate County-owned facilities in the Hub will require operators to compensate the County. This revenue sharing payment requirement, coupled with sales tax generated from the new facilities, will produce revenue that exceeds the financing required to construct the job generating improvements and establishment of a world-class sports-entertainment destination center.  In short, this plan requires private sector operators to compensate the County the costs of financing the plan. 


4. Can the County Really Do This?

What, you doubt the County?! No but seriously, we'll see. Mangano has had long-running run-ins with the Nassau County Interim Finance Authority, which took control of county finances because of the straits they'd waded into. We'll see what NIFA has to say about it.

UPDATE: NIFA has spoken, and it ain't so good:

"deeply concerned about the county executive’s proposal and its fiscal implications for the county." NIFA, which would have to approve the borrowing, said there was "no coordination … regarding this major proposal …"

But the County lays their argument out like this:

Given the local economy and prior failed attempts at redevelopment, County Executive Mangano is putting the question of a new sports arena and minor league ballpark to the people. Citizens will have the opportunity to have their voices heard by deciding the fate of this Economic Development and Job Creation Plan during a County-wide public referendum on August 1, 2011. At the same time, voters will decide the fate of the New York Islanders, Long Island’s only professional sports team,

So the County provides the framework and the bond risk, Wang & Co. pledge to pay the cost via revenue-sharing, and voters decide if this is the way to go. (The alternative, of course, is for the County and maybe the region to lose the Isles, watch an old building become evermore obsolete, and see prime "hub" land remain undeveloped evermore.)

"How does the math add up," you say? It was my understanding there would be no math.

 

5. The Lighthouse Project Never Happened. Why Will This One Work?

Well, I mean, it might not. But in short, it has a better shot because the major political players involved are on board, and it's not a $3 billion-plus proposal that scares the daylights out of NIMBY suburbanites. Presumably these now united political forces can marshal their supporters and "friends of influence" to get it through.

Town of Hempstead supervisor Kate Murray -- a major player in blocking the LHP -- is on board with this plan and was a featured speaker at today's presser. (Yes, she was booed.)

Of course, just because Wang, Mangano and Murray are all singing the same tune, there are still the hurdles mentioned above -- county legislature, voter referendum and, presumably, NIFA.

 

6. This Means the Islanders Can Sign Brad Richards Now, Right?

Yeah, totally. That's totally a good idea, too. You should be GM. They should sign Jagr, too.

 

7. Will the Nassau [gloriously unsponsored] Veterans Memorial Coliseum Now be Ingloriously Sponsored?

This topic did not come up, but I cannot imagine it going any other way, certainly not in this universe we currently inhabit. (If you know of a parallel one where 1994 didn't happen and most of the last 18 years were just a dream, send me directions.) Naming rights will have to be a part. Doesn't mean we can't call it whatever we want though.

 

8. How Big is the Arena?

They didn't discuss this at the open press conference today, but Newsday reported last night/this morning that it would be 17,500 for hockey. Which makes it bigger than the current venue, but not as big as some of the cavernous new buildings in the league. No doubt there is ample space taken up by luxury boxes.

The Islanders haven't averaged over 14,000 per game since 2002-03 though, so this seems about right. Oh, but speaking of which...

 

9. What about Better Mass Transit to Make Getting to Games Easier?

Not a word on that. Not yet at least. Which is both expected and disappointing, as I believe it's one of the logistical things that holds Islanders attendance back. But fixing it also involves a scope well beyond these political players.

 

10. What are Comparables?

  • According to Wikipedia (which is where I turn for info about benign topics that only a really bored bastard would fabricate), the arena the Coyotes play in was completed in 2003 at a cost of $180 million, seating 17,125 for hockey.
  • The Flyers' arena was completed in 1996 at a cost of $206 million, seating roughly 19,500 for hockey.
  • The Penguins [fossil fuels uber alles] Center was completed in 2010 at a cost of $321 million, with costs rising from early estimates of $290 million due to increased cost of "steel and insurance." It seats 18,087 for hockey.

If all goes as planned -- and Bossy knows that's never happened in the two-decade saga to develop the Hub and build a Coliseum replacement -- then Aug. 1 is a very big day. Summer referendums are for special issues such as this. We'll see who gets their armies out in force to win the day.

Spring 2012 is when shovels could hit ground. And 2015, when the arena would open, is before John Tavares hits unrestricted free agency. Sorry about that, righteous Toronto columnists.

Questions, corrections, disputes, and wildly idle speculation welcome in comments.

Comment 262 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Thank you for this. I was skimming through the other thread and wondering some of these things.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Cool, was hoping it helps

Most of this is from the official claims, so obviously it’s not vetted by an investigative journalist. But this is their plan as it stands today.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It helps a lot, thanks.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

The radio guys on FAN are raising lots of questions

I hope this gets through…..ATTN Islanders Fans…..Get out and vote on 8/1 if you want this. The immediate response I’ve been hearing is mixed and we need to not take this for granted.

_____________________________________________________

"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"

"A great shot is when you pull it off. A smart shot is when you don’t have the guts to try it." - Phil Mickelson

"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano

by FB4Real on May 11, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions  

the new rally cry for this is now

MEET ME AT THE SHINNECOCK

is it not?

(sorry to the mods, but i couldnt help it)

Proudly Serving Organic Lettuce to Hoppy since Feb 2011

by bob l on May 11, 2011 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

.....and support your Wang

had to be said

Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!

by CharlieIsles on May 11, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not publicly financed!

I swear! It’s just the county issuing bonds for hundreds of millions of dollars, is all, and yes I would like to buy some residential mortgage backed securities, why do you ask?

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Calling it an “investment”. Not a tax…haha, cause you get it back

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It’s not a tax. It is a temporary refund adjustment.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Magnano on francesa WFAN now
Keith Quinn – May 11, 2011 via mobile reply

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 2:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Question #11

Where do they play during the construction period? A yankee statium or City field solution of building next door may not work because the site is not large enough.to permit them to play at the current arena during that building period. Did someone suggest MSG? Has anyone talked to Dolan? PS if anyone doubt’s that there is a space problem, how about parking?

by altosax on May 11, 2011 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

At the Coliseum

What’s a few lost parking spots among friends fans.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

IZOD Center

Wouldn’t that be hilarious

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

They do own the Rink the Sound Tigers play in

The Connecticut Islander Whalers!

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

i live around the corner from newbridge- friday night ice skating during middle school was the best lol

by islesftw on May 11, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are going to have curling

there this season. I want to do it so bad, but I’m broke (it basically costs the same as a season of hockey) and most of my friends (who became fascinated with curling during the olympics) live like 30 miles away in Suffolk.

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey hey hey, I’m trying to be funny here!

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a chance

That’s where the Rags start next season…

by Dorfer on May 11, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

really? News story link?

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Ivan Lacoste does NOT, contrary to popular belief, run the free world – and for Potvin’s sake, do NOT name it the Tommy Center! OR Hilfiger Place…..

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems like they will do what the Bruins did- play in their old arena while the new arena is constructed next door.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Details, devils

On the surface, it’s a great deal. Here’s a comp: Miller Park in Wisc. cost $400 million. The public paid for 77 percent of it with a new sales tax.
http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/miller.htm

It’s great that they’re saying Wang will pay for this through a cut of his profits on the Isles, and it won’t cost taxpayers a dime. Of course, the rub here is that the taxpayers are on the hook in case the Isles can’t pay — taxpayers are the co-signers are the loan, clearly. And where will those profits come from?

I tried some back-of-the-envelope calculations. This is very rough, and doesn’t include the fees Goldman Sachs will get for selling the bonds, etc. But debt service on $400 million for 30 years would be roughly $30 million per year at 6 percent (hopefully they get much better terms). Will a cut of soda and beer sales pay for that? I’d love to see more details. And of course, the gov’t can refinance and refinance and refinance.

Of course I want to see this done. But it matters how the loan is getting paid. Corrections welcome.

by BobSulli on May 11, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Plus

The opportunity costs for a community already hogtied by debt are enormous. This probably won’t get talked about a lot, but it’s a really big component of it.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a great point — you have to think about what is not being done because this project is being done/this money is being borrowed. The county can’t borrow infinitely. On the other hand, you also have to think about what happens to that property if……

I grew up in the shadow of the Brendan Byrne arena, which is now a ghost town that occasionally hosts circuses. Looks ugly even next to Xanadu. You don’t want to go there.

by BobSulli on May 11, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Before this gets done

The Nassau Legislature must approve the referendum. Yes some were at the conference, but those that weren’t should pick your curiosity. So then Nassau resident registered to vote go to the polls on August 1st. Ok so lots of companies close the first two weeks of August for summer vacation and those people will be no where in sight.
The referendum passes!
If so, final approval must go thru the Albany Legislature. Yet another hurdle.

If the county, town of Hempstead and Uniondale wouldn’t approve a plan that was no cost to them, why would they approve a plan that costs them money.
So they get paid back over years. Has any seen the economy of Long Island improve? People are leaving in droves because there aren’t enough good paying jobs. The Grand Central Parkway is more crowded in the AM going East. The medium wage on Long Island in now between $8.50 and $15 an hour, drawing people from Queens and Brooklyn who’ll work at those wages. (Thats an average of 25-30k a year). People who are working on the island can’t afford to live there.

  I hope the people vote yes. I hope the Legislature approves it. I wan the Islanders to stay in the area for a long time.
I hope this all works out.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You want details?!

Heavens, we are mere subjects, we can’t be bothered with details.

I find JP’s theory(ies) interesting: What if Wang can/does buy up a chunk of the bonds to guarantee himself X interest rate?

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see why he would do that. He’d then be basically financing the building but saying “sure, I’ll take the cost, but the county can own it.”

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thinking out loud

Well, I mean you do bonds you’re getting an interest return, right? (Plus tax considerations for funneling money that way?) You buy the County an arena outright, you get nothing but a thank you card? Like you said, there’s not much incentive to just own an arena on that site without other incentives. I’m really interested in what the terms of the lease will be.

/fully acknowledge I’m thinking out loud while on an “important” conference call

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but buying the bonds is like paying for the arena without even getting any of the conceivable benefits of ultimate ownership.

As for interest rates on the bonds, you’d only do that if you think they’re a better investment than any other use you could put your money towards.

Put another way: buying the bonds ultimately is like buying the County an arena and getting a thank you card.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your Calc is Correct at $30M/year

However another way to think about it, according to the US Census, as of 2009, Nassau County had a little over 1.3M residents. Of these residents, about 62% are between 18 and 65, or about 840,000 people in the county.

Assuming that everyone from 18-65 is a taxpayer (simplistic assumption, I know), the $30M per year calculates to only $34/year per taxpayer. And that assumes that not a dollar of revenue comes back to the county and the whole cost is eaten by the taxpayer.

Not too bad when you break it down that way…

by SchneiderDiricov on May 11, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

The numbuhs for the arener

I assume that Mangano and Wang will very short produce slick, color charts and graphs showing how the revenue streams will be sufficient.

by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on May 11, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe I trust Wang.

not Mangano. This is the guy who kept denying there was a 170 Million Dollar Deficit in his budget,.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are awesome.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Sorry if I was aggressive during our little dust-up earlier today. I was hungover.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thoroughly entertained by that exchange

good stuff. Nice to see the olive branch rec as well.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same here. Nobody can say we Isles fans arent passionate people, huh?

When it comes down to it, we seem to agree that th LH would have been better. I need to know more about this of course, but even from the limited knowledge I have now, it seems a helluva lot better than absolutely nothing. And in the end, most things do not wind up at one extreme or the other… I think thats my main point in this.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to check

This vote is only open to residents of Nassau county?

by MSBerg on May 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd expect so, but can't clarify for sure

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Registered voters in the County of Nassau.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand why Wang would be willing to keep the team in a publicly owned stadium

Either he had to own it, or get a much better deal. And this stadium still has no public transportation.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

a wink wink, nod nod, elbow elbow deal to eventually improve Mass Transit in the area?

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t imagine that could be the case. That is an enormous undertaking. Wang would be an idiot to accept that sort of verbal assurance. Oh, wait. . .

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at it this way

Improving Mass Transit will help all endeavors at the Hub, not just the Islanders.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

But you’re talking billions and billions of dollars. It’s beyond what the locals can realistically do.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

TMC has said there's already a spur.....can we get an estimate of how much it would cost.....

…..to refurbish that? Can’t be more than what, 5 miles to the LIRR from NVMC? They wouldn’t need right-of-way buys, right? Just replacing and perhaps adding another track in either direction…..couldn’t be more than $75-100 mil, true? There has to be some sort of federal monies available for just that purpose still sitting around……

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It runs right through Garden City.

And that is the blockage… or else it would have been used thew way we want it used thirty+ years ago.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, that's right - I forgot you'd mentioned that previously:(

At SOME point though, GC is going to HAVE to be shouted down by the people controlling its purse strings…..if they end up being primarily responsible for the Islanders leaving Nassau, they will be even MORE hated for the rest of time!

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

At some point Garden City is going to have to do a LOT of things...

but as of right now, the NIMBYs still have all the power. If they didnt, the LH project wouldnt be dead.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about...

the Nassau Veterans Memorial Monorail? Loop it from West Hempstead to Westbury, with the Mausoleum in the middle…

by Bri On LI on May 11, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHAT'S IT CALLED?

Monorail !
-Lyle Lanly (full intro)
from Marge vs The Monorail

now starring Kate Murray as Marge
and Ed Mangano as Mayor Quimby

by noomz on May 12, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Mono = One
Rail = Rail

by Fabtraption on May 12, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

R.I.P. Phil Hartman

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 12, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's a sweetheart lease

I share that concern, just probing for possible explanations. Hell, a $1 lease can be better than ownership in the right scenario.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a thought...

30 of these between key destinations (NVMC, Marriot, Casino, Belmont, Northern LIRR, Southern LIRR HUB) could go a long way to resolving the “mass transit issue”. THey would be managed privately and outside the established public mass transit system. A pretty nice opportunity to turn a buck… and if worked properly could offer cross marketing opportunties. The shuttles in vegas do wonders to help folks get around in that traffic nightmare…. Think LIRR… to Collie… to casino.. LIRR stop right there… or back to Marriot in the wee hours.

Of course… in NY you’d need an armed platoon on each one as it went through Hempstead.

http://www.gatlinburgtrolley.org/

just a thought… early stages of the thought process…

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at this way, if they build a new arena, SMG is no longer involved. Instead the County or Town gets a percentage of each dollar.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mangano rocks

I have to say. Very very honest regarding how this works and what the risks are.

by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on May 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't go too far.

Seriously, the guy was lying about the Nassau County Budget for months.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be

But he wasn’t mincing words about how ultimately the taxpayer is bearing the risk. A slicker politician could have spun it differently.

by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on May 11, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's helping us now, so let's appreciate this.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ironically, when I saw the Lighthouse Project map, I assumed the minor league ballpark

was only there so that when the politics told Wang to trim it down, he’d be like, “Oh, shucks. OK, we’ll get rid of the ballpark….” And yet, that’s the only thing getting built. I phale. :(

by Les Beaver on May 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

this whole thing tasks me

what a letdown compared to what could have been… why would wang agree to this in essence paying for a new arena himself with no added streams of revenue and no added transportation? it’s just gonna be a shiny new building on the same old piece of crap land with some non used ballpark that will never get a tenant.

there’s gotta be something more for wang to like this.

by Khan Noonien Singh on May 11, 2011 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

are there any NEW Minor League ballparks that are without tenants?

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Must be something for Wang

Maybe it’s in the lease, maybe it’s in the bonds — or if we want to go dark, maybe it’s in a guaranteed in-or-out scenario/escape route once the vote happens.

I see Wang’s position as he gave a visionary development that was worth his investment his best shot. The reality from timing and economic conditions now is all that’s left (if he wants to keep the team in Nassau) is some sort of arrangement like this.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Said Mangano: "Private financing is not available.

What does this indicate? Wang/Reck never had the dough, coudn’t get it? At some point they could get it, but not anymore? At what point did that change? Does that explain Rechler’s pull out and Wang’s seeming pull back on his own project, even before TOH et al blew the project out of the water?

by dose on May 11, 2011 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

It means Wang wasn’t going to pay for just the arena. The rink was supposed to be a loss leader for the whole endeavor.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think maybe it fell apart ...

even before the project did. He started to pull back well before TOH’s formal rejection. He knew he couldn’t get the dough anymore (if he ever could) but didn’t want that known. Understandable. And If he could get even part of it now, why would he not offer it in order to lessen the burden on the locals and better the chance of it getting done?

by dose on May 11, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because owning just the arena in this particular location (without public transportation) is a losing proposition. So he’d be fine transferring the risk to the county.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I get that.

But why would it have to be all or nothing? If a year ago or 2 years ago he was able to get a couple of billion no problem, which he intimated he could, why would not offer partial financing now at least to lessen the risk to the residents as much as possible?

by dose on May 11, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why Wang and Murray never found anything near a compromise is a mystery

Scaled-down development…to what level…is it just that there was a County Dem in charge before and this waaaay scaled-down arena development is inevitable and more palatable coming from GOP figures? This ensures more friendly contractors get their piece? Talking out my ass, but I usually safely assume political considerations at work.

To the financing part though, I bet his ability to finance what was proposed before dropped significantly with the near-depression we faced three years ago.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would mean it dropped ...

from being able to obtain a couple of billion to basically drek, and he never acknowledged it. He was probably relieved that the thing was killed.

by dose on May 11, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly a theory that’s surfaced every now and then…

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thought

Is that the county(especially this bankrupt county) never wanted Wang to own this himself. They are basically issuing bonds to take out a loan and now have their finger in Wangs pie for a long time and have a lead on the contracts, taxes and the interest on the revenue until 2045. That provides a constant influx of (guaranteed) money that they wouldnt have had if Wang owned it himself.

I have to re-listen to the Francesa thing, butI think I heard that the Isles will control the Coli, and be making the money on it, but will be giving a % of those proceeds back to the county. It’s seems more a “partnership” than a “lease” where the burden and the spoils will be shared. In theory, that should ensure good business, in reality, it’s still basically fronted by the taxpayers…I mean really, they are going to take your money, and give it back by 2045. (somehow, and w/o interest.

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

"and now have their finger in Wangs pie..."

just might be the dirtiest thing I’ve read on this site.

by Jones79 on May 11, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

On purpose

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this ever going to stop...

they weren’t going out of pocket… were banks really going to finance the LHP? Was that ever REALLY going to happen? Was it REALLY the TOH that shot it down or was it the fact that they couldn’t guarentee that YOUR PROPERTY wasn’t going to be covered in tumbleweeds until the glaciers moved over it.
Let’s be realistic… what else of that size is being built? Are banks even financing 5 storefront stripmalls in this economy?

What got me on the LHP is the potential for about 40K people on top of a maze of underground parking lots (I guess)… good thing they killed Osama.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Citizens will have the opportunity to have their voices heard by deciding the fate of this Economic Development and Job Creation Plan during a County-wide public referendum on August 1, 2011. At the same time, voters will decide the fate of the New York Islanders, Long Island’s only professional sports team,

Of course, one might question why the Voters weren’t allowed to make a decision on the LHP…

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

To quote Mangano as Murray was getting booed.

“No no, no. Because today is a day of compromise.”

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because then it was private funds footing the bill.

But when there’s an opportunity to use the public’s money, the politicians eat it up, because that’s good ol’ capitalism.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on May 11, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's an independent league

No MLB affiliation at all.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on May 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are teams like that?

No hope to reach the MLB, why play? I mean I bet the salaries are awful. For the love of the game I guess..

by edavidmorris on May 11, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The players do in part hope

to reach the MLB. And some of the Independent leagues are not so bad either, somewhere around the AA level. And fun for everyone…

by Paumanok on May 11, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the Atlantic League is a proving ground for washed up vets

to try and make it back to the bigs. The league has seen MLB veterans such as Jose Canseco, Ruben Sierra, Tim Raines, Jose Lima, Rickey Henderson, Dante Bichette, Pete Incaviglia, Carlos Baerga, Jim Leyritz, Curtis Pride, Brendan Donnelly, Joe Borowski, Jose Offerman, Bobby Hill, Henry Rodriguez, Juan Gonzalez, Deivi Cruz, Edgardo Alfonzo, Bill Pulsipher, etc, play and try to make their way back to MLB.

by Jones79 on May 11, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

For you Mets fans out there,

The LI Ducks signed Duaner Sanchez for this season. Just keep him out of taxis and he’ll be fine…

by Bri On LI on May 11, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW

Blast from the very disappointing past

by Fabtraption on May 12, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Offerman

Used it as a place to practice his loan shark skills.

by Dorfer on May 12, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's also a place for

players who are drafted but don’t sign with their team. See Aaron Crow and Luke Hochevar

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

by labbadabba on May 12, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not true

players get picked up from the independent leagues from time to time

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

by labbadabba on May 12, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Ducks play in the Atlantic League

Alright you Primitive Screwheads, listen up! You see this? This... is my boomstick! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

by rob2112 on May 11, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It might be interesting

To bring A Ball to Nassau. NY-Penn League. SI Yankees, BK Cyclones, LI Nimbies…I can see it now.

What the fish, stick?

by Homey Chives on May 11, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Public Transportation

I wonder how hard/costly it would be to expand the Hempstead branch the 2 or so miles to the site. You could build it over Hempstead Tpke. At the very least you could Shuttle Bus service over on game days.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on May 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Seriously

At minimum a shuttle service is overdue. I was thinking with the construction going on concurrently and taking out some of the parking, maybe that would force the hand/need for a shuttle all the more, depending on how many parking spaces are made unavailable.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

There actually

Is track laid from Hempstead station almost as far as NCC. Not sure what it’s used for, or if it’s viable for such an extension.

Of course that basically only helps for people coming from Brooklyn, Queens, and other points west. But I guess that’s better than nothing.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s, you know, where all the people are.

An actual rail extension is well beyond the capacity of these clowns. It’s many billions of dollars and many years of development.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is interesting

Rail line actually extends further than I thought. And it ends a little under 3/4 mile from the Coliseum. Seems too good to be true.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.726576,-73.593335&spn=0.021985,0.040383&z=15

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: Hofstra has a "Field Hockey Stadium"?

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That track has been there for years. It was planned to be an inter-modal facility for container trains. But the someone figured that the bridges were too low for them LOL

Last time I went by those tracks there was a few work train bits there.

Railroad tracks are expensive. A million dollars a mile is not too far off the mark. That trackage would have to fixed so electric trains could through and then add the extension to the NVMC or Hofstra.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I see it.

Then you only need to extend it along Charles Lindberg Blvd. That way is actually better. It could serve NCCC, NVMC, & the new baseball park.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on May 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Realistically

You wouldn’t even need to extend if they built a dedicated overpass or something. We’re talking <10 minute walk which is about par for the course as far as these kinds of things go.

The bigger problem would be having a large enough staging area to manage all of the people heading home after a game as well as the ability to roll multiple trains out in a short time.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The line runs along Commercial Avenue- a spur from the Hempstead line

I believe it is still used to bring the Circus animals into/out of the Coliseum each Spring. No reason that light rail can’t be extended to Hofstra and ultimately the new Coliseum.

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the reason to extend it

Not as much space at Commercial Ave but they have plenty of space over one of those parking lots.

Vote Yes on August 1st.

by Anarcurt on May 11, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

NVMC uses it when the circus comes to town.

I remember seeing the circus cars when my mom lived on Mitchell Field.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

None of the clowns were shot out of a cannon though

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a missed opportunity!

We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!

by Russel Ginart on May 11, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

and Francesa is a dope.

He again declared that “a light rail through peoples’ backyards in Garden City” was part of the LH plan. As I understood, it was NOT a part of the LH plan. It was a part of original “Nassau HUB” deal put out as a pipe dream by County people well before the LH was put forth by Wang. Noone ever really thought that would happen anyway. Is that right?

by dose on May 11, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I love these leap year days when Francesca pays attention to the Isles

Gets multiple things wrong — in the middle of “well I haven’t watched since Tucker injured Turgeon” — and his regulars start whining that they don’t give a Cooke about the Islanders. Good times.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's such a pompous schmuck ...

sometimes. The Fan should be embarrassed that he makes declaratory statements that are flat out wrong. Repeatedly. I’ve heard him say that a few times. It’s not that tough to be a little better informed. Hell, we are! And he lives there for cripes sakes!

by dose on May 11, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Talk radio taken to its logical conclusion

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Botta is on Home Ice

He said NIFA just released a stmt thru Newsday basically saying “HOLD EVERYTHING”.

Apparently Mangano/Wang didn’t run it by them and they are ‘deeply concerned.’

This is gonna get interesting.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Sonova.... :(

Newsday:

However, the Nassau Interim Finance Authority, a state watchdog which controls the county’s finances, saying it was “deeply concerned about the county executive’s proposal and its fiscal implications for the county.”

NIFA, which would have to approve the borrowing, said there was "no coordination … regarding this major proposal …

“As we await necessary information from the county regarding the 2011 and 2012 budgets, NIFA requires details of this new plan, which must be evaluated in the context of the county’s fiscal crisis, the wage freeze on county employees and the reductions in services to county residents,” the statement said.

by Les Beaver on May 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

This beat goes on

and on and on…

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is that even possible?

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

First Mangano sues them

and now he’s putting out a referendum without consulting them? And NIFA will vote in favor of this because…..???

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

because realistically

because without the Islanders, what is in Nassau???

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Agree 100%

But not a good way for Mangano to treat an oversight board. Especially one that has a vote.

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's a link

To a copy of the statement (below). Looks to me like Mangano figured he could strong-arm NIFA into approving it by getting a jump on public opinion. We’l see. Could seriously backfire. Now, it sounds more like a Hair Mary to me.

http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/bdgallof/34787/

by BobSulli on May 11, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looks to me like Mangano figured he could strong-arm NIFA into approving it by getting a jump on public opinion.

Exactly what I was thinking. Not sure how realistic that is (well, I mean the public opinion part is realistic, but can it translate into real pressure?). Guess that depends on how easily influenced/threatened NIFA members are.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Queens

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to Willets Point, home of the Mets and Islanders

Trains? We have the #7 and the LIRR

By Car? The LIE, the Grand Central, the Van Wyck, The Whitestone expwy..take your pick.

And..the city will pay for it!

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

NIFA gave Mangano

a 10 minute misconduct.

What the fish, stick?

by Homey Chives on May 11, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

JUST VOTE YES EVERYONE

Show up and vote YES

_____________________________________________________

"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"

"A great shot is when you pull it off. A smart shot is when you don’t have the guts to try it." - Phil Mickelson

"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano

by FB4Real on May 11, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

- if they allowed for out-of-state votes, I surely WOULD!

Then again, then it would REALLY be ‘representation without taxation’……

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

if they allowed out of county voters, I would lol

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds about right....

$300 million sounds about right for a modern sports arena. Still on Strong Island and on the same tract of land as the current old barn. Right off Hempstead Turnpike and the Meadowbrook. Sounds good so far. But, I have questions about the need for a minor league style baseball stadium as part of the project. Do they have a MLB team on board to move one of their Minor League teams in? Would it be the home of another Independant League team? There already is a minor league team in Brooklyn and a Independent league team in Islip. I realize it is ONLY a $50 mil throw in, but, I am not sure I see the benefit of the baseball field.

by ejcal70 on May 11, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Imagine the stadium thing is only a ploy for more funding. They build a little $10million dollar cheap/crappy field with nearly no seating and use the rest of the money on the stadium.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl

by OzzyFan on May 11, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The LI area

can surely support more than one minor league team. More people live on LI than in any number of states with lots of MiLB teams.

by Paumanok on May 11, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHY?

Wasn’t this questioned when it was part of the LHP. I certainly agree with the needless baseball stadium… but it was there in the LHP.
It can certainly be part of an eventual development… but I can also see it easily falling off the board all together.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

didn't ask why it was in the plan...

Frank. I was asking why nobody questioned it then…. when everybody thought the emperor was fully dressed. Now it’s not such a good idea. I never liked it. But it most certainly works better as part of an entertainment complex (as a summer draw), than it did in the village of lighthouse

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe to keep a revenue stream going for all four seasons?

I imagine the bond holders would rather see a steady revenue stream.

Some synergies and cost savings may be had by having employees (like concessions workers) being able to work a full year.

As to costs- the Phillies stadium required a lot of infrastructure work (roads, sewers, utlitlies) that will not be needed to such an extent at the Barn.

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

In that Mold: It’ll probably help counter the people who work Nassau and go on unemployment in the offseason.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW- More is at stake than where the Isles will play

Right now, Isles are not signing any players past 2015. If this doesn’t get resolved this season, how are we possibly going to keep JT and other youth around? With one-year extension deals???!!!

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 4:55 PM EDT reply actions  

We'll see

What they do with Okposo and Bailey this summer

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably be 3-Year offers tops.

Wonder if they make a splash with a big FA signing come July 1 to prime the polls for Aug 1?

by 4PeatSake on May 11, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

already know the answer to that

No.

We have more then enough Defenseman.

We have the top 9 forwards Set.

Can’t see where the Islanders can add a big name free agent.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry about it

I don’t think there are even too many big name free agents available.

by Fabtraption on May 12, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha this is already getting destroyed on a a poll on News 12 Long Island

Do you favor spending $400 million in taxpayer money to build a new Nassau Coliseum and redevelop the surrounding area?

Hahaha thats how its worded, and 65% last I checked answered no. Not suprised. As much as i’d love this to happen. We are Islanders fans, and like always we will get screwed.

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on May 11, 2011 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

News 12 deserves a punch in the fucking jaw for presenting this in such an ignorant and stupid manner.

Fortunately, most internet babble like that is from halfassed morons who dont vote and just bitch about anything and everything. Remember the 34095823905832059843956845609 negative things people said online and in polls about GWB? Then he was reelected.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

News12 Long Island: 516-393-1200, option 5.
I already left them a message, but I will be talking to someone directly during business hours tomorrow.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will be talking to someone directly during business hours tomorrow

nice

by KO21 on May 11, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has to happen. We have to hold them accountable or else who will?

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 12, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe...

Wang should put a sign Michael Grabner long term referendum on the same day to get Islander fans out to vote… like the republicans do with same sex marriages when they expect a low turnout… nothing scares republicans like other people being happy.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

nothing scares republicans like other people being happy.

You win the internet for today with your incisive and highly accurate comment.

by AP77 on May 12, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

WOW TMC is that an exact count of negative comments?

MAN YOU ARE GOOD!

We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!

by Russel Ginart on May 11, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

shows

there were 340958239058320598439568445610 informed and intelligent voters.

Back....
had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman.
"You guys are crazy! You must not even watch hockey", what are you Islander fans or something?

by skeeterman on May 11, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incorrect.

The man was REELECTED… so that means there were 340958239058320598439568445610 who bitched on the Internet, etc- but then when the chips were down, did the opposite of what they were saying- or did nothing at all.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 12, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

But that’s how people are going to see it. A bond (loan) to build a facility for a hockey a baseball team.

You can say it however you’d like, but that is the question.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

....what ESPECIALLY sucks is that......

Channel 12 is SUPPOSED to be a homegrown LI station – can;t they fashion a more RESPONSIBLE poll????

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name the new arena

the Optimum Coliseum. Cablevision owns LI anyway. Why not connect the two?

Come to the OC and see the Isles play!

Optimism at Optimum!

What the fish, stick?

by Homey Chives on May 11, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man

The current one sure looks like it’s already named Optimum Coliseum. It’s like a minor-league outfield wall that thing.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about

they name the new arena in memory of one of the many Long Islanders who was killed during military service?

by CostiganR on May 11, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or better yet

Papa Johns Presents the New Nassaur Memorial Coliseum, In Honor of Our War Veterans Sponsored by Pepsi-Cola

by Fabtraption on May 12, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

We laugh, but...

Could totally see something like that. “To continue honoring our veterans while also taking advantage of the great County investment modern sports affords us…”

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 12, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what it is named for.
Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. Fuck Charles Dolan.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on May 11, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fuck Charles Dolan Arena?

I would love to hear Howie say that every night.

by Les Beaver on May 12, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Internet democracy...

is the only kind of democracy more dysfunctional than real-world democracy.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wording

Is it really incorrect? It might be somewhat slanted, but it’s completely true.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is not UNBIASED... and thats what a fucking poll is SUPPOSED to be.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

No such thing

as an unbiased poll. It’s impossible.

And I actually don’t find that wording particularly biased. That was what was proposed today.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basically

it is. It isn’t exactly that simple. But it is essentially correct. Assuming $400 million in debt isn’t precisely the same as spending $400 million, but in some ways it’s potentially even worse.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

You just contradicted yourself in your first two statements.

It is that simple. And then it isn’t that simple? It’s not that simple. Other arena’s were straight up tax payers money, while this one promisises for revenue to pay it back in time. Other arena’s that have been passed didn’t have that at all.

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on May 11, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, basically that is what was proposed today, though it isn’t exactly that simple.

The “payback” merely sets the citizens up to be marginally less screwed.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of these people will be dead

By the time that loan is paid back…that will make it a problem.

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 12, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I understand it completely

to the point that I comprehend it’s impossibility. There is always bias. Always.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

By your logic

Then ideals should never be strived for because you believe perfection to be unattainable? WOW.
That is an absolutely miserable train of thought. I hope your bleak pessimism extends only to journalism and not elsewhere in your life, or else I would bet you are a very unhappy person.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 12, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all

Everyone views the same thing in a different way. Six of us could be sitting in a room looking at a box and later describe the box in six different ways. That’s called bias. Information cannot be presented free from bias. It’s not humanly possible.

I’m not sure what this has to do with perfection or my happiness, but it’s certainly not a miserable train of thought. In fact, understanding this concept allows you to more easily recognize bias and question its motives, which is a fairly important skill today.

by afrosupreme on May 12, 2011 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

No surprise that a person presenting the most bleak, negative philosophy I have ever seen mustered here immediately defends it. Your defeatism may seem to serve you for the time being, but I would never want to share it. And if you do not understand why, then it follows that you do not understand what I have said. I honestly suspect as much, anyway- since you are electing to make this tangent case regarding the existence of bias and are completely ignoring my entire point about striving for objectivity.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 12, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I’ll stop being so bleak and start just go about being angry and misinformed, and then maybe you’ll like me better.

by afrosupreme on May 12, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is MC supposed to mean me? (Normally Im TMC, for the record) But if so:

First of all, if I thought you were all dummies, I wouldnt even bother posting here.
Secondly, yes I did bitch at them. I called and complained about the lack of objectivity and said, like I said here, that objectivity is an ideal that journalists should strive towards, not disregard.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

- except for 1 thing:

….the payment arrangement is structured in such a way as to remove much of the responsibility from most residents of Nassau…..12 completely flew over that consideration…..

by ogam5 on May 11, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL

Did you guys go over there and vote?

Do you favor spending $400 million in taxpayer money to build a new Nassau Coliseum and redevelop the surrounding area?
Yes (477 – 52%)
No (436 – 48%)

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Friend on facebook brought this up to me

the poll may be a little misleading because well
News 12→owned by Cablevison→ owned by Dolans→ Own the Rangers/MSG→ dont wanna see a rival arena/team prosper

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on May 11, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wang's Legacy

Maybe in the long run, this isn’t about the Islanders being a profitable venture for Wang, but is his making sure that the team stays on Long Island until 2045.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 7:32 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Uhhh yup.

Mangano is an idiot. Regardless of his politics, he KNOWS there is a board which has to approve any such thing and yet he keeps trying to pretend they don’t exist.

It’s getting really….really…irritating.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's gambling

That the board won’t try to overturn a popular vote. Which is why it’s going to be a referendum instead of a vote by elected officials.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a stupid gamble.

The board is NOT elected. They do not feel fear for their jobs. It does not have any elected politicians in it. And there will not be any effect on them if they overturn it. There is no political pressure here.

If the board does its damn job, it WILL overturn a popular vote if it feels the plan doesn’t work. And it will.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

it will be interesting

To see what happens if they do overturn a popular vote.

My guess is that it will go to the courts if they do.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm betting

they won’t even let it get to a vote if they don’t support it.

Honestly, this whole thing is starting to just reek of a power play by Mongoloid to try and get out from under NIFA. Newsday’s bit that the full details of the revenue sharing might not be available prior to the vote make the whole thing seem like a smokescreen.

Not sure why we ever expect anything better.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The county can choose to have a Referendum on anything it wants. So even if the NIFA says no before the vote, the county can still have the vote.

"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on May 11, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

NIFA's purpose is to get Nassau out of being a bankrupt hell hole

hopefully they have enough sense to judge the project on its merits and not play politics (long shot I know). How can the county be viable without developing that site in the next 3-5 years, whether that’s a hockey areaner or office buildings or a casino or whatever.

Something has to be done to stimulate growth in the county and this could be viewed as good as anything else. Let the people decide what they want, and convince NIFA we all will get paid back (which I very skeptical of but don’t really care as an Isles fan).

For that reason I like the plan.

The Lighthouse, for all its promises would’ve been a big time gamble. As JPinVA stated before, were they really going to get financing for over $1B? Was there really enough spending money amongst the county residents to fill the Lighthouse shops and businesses without harming other areas of the county? Could the infrastructure really handle development of that scope?

This plan is more simple, streamlined. It allows for an out for all the public figures involved by having the referendum and letting the people decide. It’s finally some recognition by all powers involved that SOMETHING needs to be done.

I’m more hopeful for this than any other plan. I worry about how strong the naysayers voices will be. But I’m optimistic this will get done.

I just hope it does anyway.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't have to be elected to succumb to politics
The board is NOT elected. They do not feel fear for their jobs.

I get why you’d say that, and Mangano is an ass for continuing to pretend NIFA doesn’t matter, but do you know that second statement to be true? Plenty of unelected officials fear for their positions, are vulnerable to influence, can be swayed with carrots and threats. They are appointed by politicians for pete’s sake.

Even though they’ve battled Mangano so far, I wouldn’t assume any immunity to political pressure. I’m damn cynical on such matters, but with good reason.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Political Science/Public Policy theory

The biggest thing that influences political actors is the ability to get re-elected (or move up). This is why lobbying groups are so influential on American Politics: without their financial (and other) support, candidates can’t win elections. So candidates fit their policies so as to maximize re-election chances.

Candidates don’t completely become slaves to public interest/lobbyists of course…they stick on a general side, but they warp their views quite a bit.

NIFA doesn’t need to worry about that. I’m sure there’s some influence on them, from the guys they appoint to the fact that they do have political affiliations (parties) and through their real jobs. But the major influence on elected officials IS NOT THERE.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, I get that

But in my experience a seven-member board appointed by elected officials is quite ripe for influence. Why does one accept that appointment — out of the goodness of one’s heart and concern for fellow citizens? Maybe. Why does one continue to put up with the B.S. involved when it turns darker than one expected — out of principles, or because maybe there will be a personal gain?

I’m just saying. NIFA’s behavior isn’t open-and-shut.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's different.

Many administrative board positions tend to be ripe for influence because there’s still a chance to move higher in the same area. Here there is not.

Essentially, it’s the reason why there’s a movement (spearheaded by Sandra Day O’Connor) to try and make all U.S. Judges appointed rather than elected. While there still is some influence over judges as such (there is some possibility for upward advancement through further appointments), the amount of influence is far less than otherwise, leading to more impartial decisions made for the better good.

Also, to answer your question, you’re being enormously cynical. NIFA for the most part is acting out of principles.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our mileage may vary

But I have pretty good reasons to not just assume a panel like this is free of influence.

seven directors, each appointed by the Governor, one each upon the recommendation of the Majority Leader of the State Senate, the Speaker of the Assembly and the State Comptroller. Four directors constitute a quorum for meetings of the directors of the Authority. The Governor also designates the chairperson and vice-chairperson from among the directors.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 12, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

For the record, the following is really worrying:
But he repeatedly suggested that the plan “is intended to not cost taxpayers a single dime.”

However, pressed for details about the revenue-sharing agreement — and whether those figures would be available to the public before the August vote — Mangano said, “If it can be done, it will be.”

Neither Mangano nor Wang was able to provide specific dollar figures regarding what county residents should expect back in return for the $400 million bonding approval.

This is the sort of way politicians in recent years (particularly of one party) have been claiming their financial plans (usually tax cuts work), by claiming that there is an amount of savings/earnings from an act…and then failing to disclose the exact amount or where it comes from. It’s a smokescreen.

Once again, I’m not sure how to say this without being political, since I don’t want to have a political talk here. But the plan needs to be REAL. And Mangano has yet to commit to anything, not even a budget, in which he can give real numbers.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

garik is playing Devils advocate but hes raising valid concerns...

You cant trust these scum bags politicians…

“If it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck”…

by KO21 on May 11, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish i was playing devil's advocate

I have mixed feelings on the issue.

(I don’t have a vote btw; I reside in Manhattan)

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I look forward to see what fieldofschemes posts on it

They will look really bad if they don’t disclose details. Really really bad. And if they don’t, it’s because they know the taxpayers will not be getting their money back.

But if the numbers do work, then obviously they’ll release them, b/c it makes them look good.

Will be interesting to see what comes out and when. This is gonna be a crazy ride with a lot of bullshit to wade through.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

People don't look that hard.

Politicians have been doing this a ton lately, and the press often lets them slide (depending on their agenda) with omitting very relevant key fiscal facts.

People will accept vague assurances, even if they don’t add up. For example, Mangano’s been trying to claim that the $170M deficit doesn’t exist. And yet he hasn’t been shot for stupidity.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

for the most part I agree, people can't be bothered

but we don’t vote on the deficit, we vote on the person, so you wouldn’t know if people are paying attention are not until he’s up for re-election.

However, if you’re motivated enough to vote on a Monday in August, you probably at least took a look at what you were voting on. It’s not like robots showing up on Election Day. That may not happen, but I do think it will be a (if only slightly) more educated electorate.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't follow NY politics any more...

… but I’d find it hard to trust a guy who says “areener”.
Other than that, in reality, this is money being released into the economy. It’s not like they are making nassau residents pay for a structure owned and operated by folks in cleveland. It is THEIR LAND, THEIR BUILDING and THEIR JOBS we are talking about.
They need to vote YES, and then pay attention to where all the money is going. If Mangano was smart he’d try to make a point to show full disclosure on contracts and budgets. These aren’t the dark ages where it would be impossible to FOLLOW THE MONEY.
This is basically, “I’m going to back up a dump truck with $400M in it and dump it in UNIONDALE Now come EARN IT, spend it in the community and it will keep generating tax revenue daily”… on top of that we are going to show you Mr. Wang is going to pay for the debt. Then Mr. X is going to pay for it… and in the end… We get to keep the coliseum and maybe that area (aryer) makes your property values go up in 10 years… rather than saying, we live 5 miles from the Nassau dust bowl… you can say, “we are only five miles from the Hempstead Town Center… you know, that’s where Mario Batali just opened his new place.”

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except that doesn't work.

Put it this way: You don’t see the government simply giving everyone a free check so that everyone has essentially 400M more in their pocket. Why? Because the government needs such money to do its job (pay its contracts for the public work that wont’ be covered by the private sector) and such a use of money isn’t necessarily going to help stimulate the local economy, even though it temporarily makes people richer.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

so in your world...

the monster eats $400M and shits out a coliseum.
Why is it when Wang was going to put a HUGE burden on the county by CREATING more infrastructure that had to be paid for by the tax payers it was seen as PRIVATE BUSINESS being stonewalled by Kate Murray… now they are perpetuating an entity that already exists… and Wang is gambling that when he (I think it will be mostly him anyway) shells out the $400M to get the interest back… he is going to be able to generate enough revenue at the coliseum he’ll be leasing, and the hotel he’ll be expanding to pay himself back… all this while churning out jobs… that don’t exist if the Isles leave.
I wonder how much of the $40M Wang pays to the players goes into the local economy… think of all the sushi dinners that Grabs will be buying somewhere else.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wang isn't gambling anything.

Public funds. Not his own.

Wang is irrelevant. The COUNTY needs to be paid back. And the revenue from the stadium will not pay it back for a long long time. This is clear fact.

This is why Mangano didn’t simply say that the bonds will be easiiy paid back from the lease. They can’t be. and it’s why NIFA has an issue.

There is a legitimate local issue here for Nassau County. You need to understand that.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The gamble..

… is that when he signs a 30 year lease he isn’t forced to close up shop in 5 years because 20K people are still just watching on TV… this is a pretty big gamble for him. But if Nashville can sell out their building there is HOPE. A fair percentage of 17K full priced tickets will go a long way towards paying back the debt. 41-50 nights a year isn’t going to do it though.. so there needs to be other entities involved. The coliseum needs to become a destination for concerts and other sports (college basketball, areener football)… there is a big gamble.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many shows can Billy Joel do a year?

We gotta get him rehearsing.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is that Wang is irrelevant.

The revenue from tickets isn’t going to the County, just the lease is. And the lease CANNOT COVER THE COST.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe my hearing aid was buzzing...

but mangano said they had an agreement in principal to SHARE REVENUES… is wang a crack whore… cause unless he’s giving handjobs in the parking lot $5 a pop… TICKET SALES ARE RELEVANT…
The revenue generated by an operational coliseum had better be a good part of covering what amounts to $30M/year(I think that’s the figure that was arrived at earlier… not my math)… that, of course, needs to add other property tax generators which hopefully come forth because they were able to keep the lights on.
Let’s hope that some portions of LHP come back to the plan eventually… and that will get the county back in the black on this whole operation… and yes, Wang is relevant… because he has the light switch. If he pulls it… goodbye coliseum… hello tumbleweeds…
Maybe they put a shitload of windmills out there so they can light upmangano’s house at christmas. That always makes a nice christmas card.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sigh. Why do you keep ignoring me.

However, pressed for details about the revenue-sharing agreement — and whether those figures would be available to the public before the August vote — Mangano said, "If it can be done, it will be."

Neither Mangano nor Wang was able to provide specific dollar figures regarding what county residents should expect back in return for the $400 million bonding approval.

There is an alleged agreement. But there’s no actual numbers as to this, which would indicate it would actually be real.
-—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, stop with the ad homs and stupid language.

I want the Isles to stay here as much as you do. But you’re ignoring that there ARE questions about this plan.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Coliseum

is going to be able to return all of these funds to the taxpayers, then why wouldn’t Wang just build the thing himself? If it’s such a great deal, shouldn’t he be the one jumping all over this?

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Questions
They will look really bad if they don’t disclose details. Really really bad.

I figure they’ll find a friendly economist/think tank that crunches happy numbers. I hear there are several in Glendale.

But it does raise questions about today that raise eyebrows:
1) Why the rushed announcement without specifics (nor looping NIFA in)? Can think of political or economic reasons for that. Or both.
2) Not so much as a drawing? Usually that’s part of the PR push, is it not? Don’t even want to pay the architect until they feel more confident…or planning that for later, given that any announcement whatsoever was going to be greeted with relief in May 2011?

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

rec’d

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on May 11, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

This isn't quite true:
“$400M is just an imaginary number when it comes to the tax payer. It’s only going to be a burden if it all fails… otherwise most of that money goes right into the local economy to be cycled over and over again in the gas stations, the delis, the cleaners, the landscapers… everybody wins. "

There’s always a claim with new stadiums that the money goes into the local economy. But evidence has shown that’s just a lie perpetuated by stadium owners seeking new stadiums without having to pay the full amount. This is spin, plan and simple.

Moreover, the money “going into the local economy” does not necessarily get circulated back to the county. It’s the county spending, and while it can borrow to spend beyond it’s current means, it is kind of in a situation where it’s quite hard to do that unless it can guarantee a form of repayment. And it’s not clear where such repayment would come from here.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't mean to be an ass...

…but do you think aliens come down from mars to build the stadium. The county will OWN it when it’s done… they lease it to the Islanders(more likely to Wang) who uses it… and pays them to do so. They need to make sure that there isn’t the D’Amato syphone hidden in a management company…
This means Vito the concrete guy gets work… Sansone construction gets a $200K contract to install the bathrooms … that guy humpin’ porcelain is from freeport… and I. Janvey in hempstead doesn’t lose their $20K contract to sell the coliseum urinal mints.
That’s not bullshit… that’s what happens… the meat distributer who has to roll a truck in the back full of hot dogs loses that money… he ain’t rollin’ that truck to Quebec.
The irony is that Tom Dickanharry in Carle Place is all worried about the big $400M this is costing “him”… but when it goes away his son-in-law who owns half of Potter’s Pub has to sell the business for peanuts, gets divorced and the lovely Summer Dickanharry moves back in with daddy…with her three brats. And all he had to do was vote yes…

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The issue is how much the lease makes the county.

It would take a really long time still to make up the 400M (Remember, the Isles are already on lease through 2015, which means new revenue from the lease doesn’t start till 2016. So that’s 400M now which there’s no clear revenue from that amount until 2016..and that revenue stream will not cover the amount for a long while.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why

the county and town should have never been involved in it in the first place…now they will stress taxpayers and if this trick doesn’t turn, everyone loses. I have to think the county had it’s eye on this being one of the few ways to bankroll themselves out of an economic downturn from the get go. And, I’ll bet they would build something as moneymaking as the LHP could have been if it was ethical and financially possible for them to do so…bottom line, they may have been more interested in the stadiums than anything else…because those are the only things the can “own” legally.

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's an awful nice piece of real estate...

for a nuclear power plant.
How about an oil refinery?
I have a feeling (or at least I hope) that this was all (casino, coliseum, bond solution) was announced at the same time because this is all part of the same political deal.
Belmont was dying. The casinos will help that.
The town wants to retain control of the land… after the coliseum turns to dust won’t they be forced to sell that land to private interests?
Maybe the best thing is for the casino and the coliseum to be on the same property (isn’t that what is saving pittsburg)… but that creates a huge mess for the garden city NIMBYs… and there is the transportation issue at the coliseum site. The casinos are going to wind up using the marriot. The islanders will cross market with the shinnecocks… hey, when you come down from montreal, spend some money at the tables…

Maybe the only way for everybody to be happy is to create the bermuda triangle between Elmont, Uniondale and Mineola.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 11, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Listen, no one is denying that the coliseum and the Isles staying is likely good for the county.

The problem is that it’s not certain that the county can AFFORD to pay for this plan to keep them.

This is a catch-22….the county needs the Isles, but it may not be able to afford the team. That’s the problem. And it can’t be ignored.

The cost of the stadium is a big problem. And it’s not one which can be ignored.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is this

This is NOT a clear yes. The County itself (not its citizens) needs to be able to recoup that 400M in a realistic time frame. And the County is in financial woes, making it harsher. This is the problem.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

The public funding of stadiums is the one of the worst trends of the last twenty years. The community recoups little to no value from them, and at an incredible opportunity cost. It’s just another way the middle class has been expected to foot the bill for the wealthy, and it’s beyond stupid.

by afrosupreme on May 11, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too true.

Not to get too political, but they all put up these fronts and hide the details behind fancy concepts and convoluted language. I’m still not confident about this plan because of exactly the things you mention.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on May 11, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's another question

Is Staying in Uniondale even best for the Islanders? There’s no mass transit whatsoever (a huge deal) and attendance has been bad for the last 10 years, even during good stretches.

If the Isles could theoretically move to Willets Point, would it not be better for them? (Or Brooklyn)

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know the answer to this question btw.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm almost thinking

that their (Hempstead/Nassau) are thinking that at this point, a new Coli would be incentive for business to reexamine moving into the area.

When the Isles make us drink, we curse Milbury through a monocle and with our pinkies out. Lighthouse Hockey & Chivas-All Class.
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHhockey

by Keith Quinn on May 11, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Every time I think about that question

I go through the spiral that ends in, “Well WTF is the point of pro sports, anyway? Why bother?”

So then I quit.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I understand

We don’t want pro sports teams to simply move to where they’d be most profitable. Neither do the leagues those teams are in.

However, a sports team has to be at least minimally profitable, or else…why would it continue? I’m not quite sure I get how a new project like this makes the Islanders a profitable franchise. And if so, I’d have to think that something drastic could still happen (lease or no lease).

A move to Queens on the other hand with mass transit would make it very likely to be profitable. And it would be not bad for many of the fans who may have better access to the stadium, even if it’s farther away physically.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 11, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most NHL teams aren't profitable, so...
However, a sports team has to be at least minimally profitable, or else…why would it continue?

Usually as a loss leader, a chance on a profitable land deal, to stroke personal ego, to gain influence with important people who like sports, or — in very rare yet on-field happy instances — because a very rich man happens to really love the sport.

I get the theoretical benefits for a location nearer mass transit (hell, I pine for it all the time). But drawing it on the napkin and seeing it happen are different. There are a lot of hurdles with any other location.

So to the question, “Is staying in Uniondale even best for the Isles?” I end up in the theoretical/not happening world, or I get into circles about the point of pro sports. Because the best situation for the Islanders is an owner who is smart, loaded, able to absorb losses as necessary or else able to work out the most profitable deal somewhere…which usually means soaking the host. Great situations for sports teams don’t necessarily equal great situations for the communities that support them, except in the self-esteem and swagger as one walks down the street and taunts an opposing fan.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot also: Because your dad died and left you the team

That’s a common one, too, that doesn’t always end well.

This isn’t to say I think their ideal location is in Uniondale, just that every scenario involves a bunch of unnerving variables that might not happen or might end up screwing someone over, because pro sports is at heart a pretty irrational business.

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 11, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of your points are generally true, but the maverick — and potential game changer — here is that putting a major pro sports team in NYC (as compared to Nassau County) is pretty much unambiguously good for everyone involved (except for maybe the Nassau tax collectors, which fuck them).

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, not trying to throw a stick in the spokes here — I get the hypothetical ideal of population centers, mass transit, and our collective desire for the Isles to be profitable, which is far from certain in the present location (new building or not).

My original tangent was simply that every time I dream of these ideal location scenarios, I arrive at all the unknowns well beyond my control anyway, so I quit. (“Yeah, that’d be great if they were in WP…wait, does that mean the Wilpons are involved? Wait, they’re broke now? Okay Brooklyn — wait, does that mean the Russian who doesn’t want them controls their home and dates?”) So while in a vacuum alternative location tickle my fancy, each scenario is laden with billionaire egos, unclear motives and local politics…not to mention that they aren’t actual alternatives as far as we know, since no one other than politicians has stepped up to attempt them.

…which gets me back to the belief that all sports fans are at the mercy of their owners, which feeds me back toward the “WTF do we follow pro sports again?”

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

The answer is no

It would be a lot better for this team to move to either Queens or Brooklyn. Or some other area in Nassau with ready rail access.

by AP77 on May 11, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be better if your dog shit gold nuggets too, that doesnt mean its going to happen.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on May 11, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG, TMC

You are on a roll! Roll on TMC.

We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!

by Russel Ginart on May 12, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still Unclear

I’m happy that another alternative is presented … but I’m still not getting on the giddy for new arena bandwagon… First off … assuming no complications during the fetting out of this proposal to the public … they still need to get the YES vote … I believe supporters will be more motivated to hit the polls than Nay voters… so pending any said complications … The YES vote should be an easy first hurdle. Getting it through NIFA may be the hard sell … Kinda like the Kate Murray obstacle of this plan.

Other questions:

  • What about revenue streams??? Part of the NEW Business model for Wang / Islanders to make profits was to generate revenue via new and lucrative revenue streams.
  • Is Charles Wang still the rights holder to develop the property? You the tax payers of Nassau County are funding the building of the arena … but in essense Charles, the Islanders and fans will be paying for it over 30 years… Is this a good business model?
  • Will the Islanders be handcuffed like other teams (Coyotes) in their ability to generate a buck in a County funded venue without access to other revenue streams?

I’ve avoided reading most of the stuff about this deal untill I can spend the time to go over it… I’m sceptical that this will help Charles make up for his losses, and make this team profitable long term. Maybe my first impression is wrong. There has to be more to this. There is a lingering “fog” as to how this is going to work. I want it to work … and maybe in 24 hours with more info, I’ll be more optimistic.

by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on May 11, 2011 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve avoided reading most of the stuff about this deal untill I can spend the time to go over it

LOL, don’t worry — there’s not much to go over!

A fog, as you say, with lots of interesting theories about what must be involved. I suppose a simple lens on the matter is the County is asking voters: “Do you want to keep this site an arena and expand on it — yes or no? These are the costs. Private financing is no longer available and/or was blocked by ToH. If we don’t do this, the team is gone and the anchor/reason for having an arena in the hub goes with it. Oh, and trust us, we’ll make the business operators pay their share.”

Lighthouse Hockey: Stay classy, my friends. Er, stay thirsty, my brother. Aw hell, whatever.

by Dominik on May 12, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Summer referendums

Are typically poorly attended voting opportunities, so it behooves the YES vote to get mobilized, get out and actually vote.

I am extremely worried that this will turn out badly for the Islanders, and there are many questions left unanswered that hopefully we will hear more about in the coming months, many of which have been brought up in this thread and others.

IMO the best solution is somewhere in between the LHP and the current proposal, but one one is willing to let someone else be credited with the plan. And though, I think that Brooklyn or Queens would be a nice alternative, especially with mass transit, but how realistic is either option if the referendum fails?

So many questions and now a final deadline day to see if the Islanders can stay on the Island.

by Jones79 on May 12, 2011 9:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Questions

Can that land be developed into private housing while the county/TOH owns it?
Is it within reason to think that part of this deal will be that Wang/Rechler gives them $400M (after the coliseum project) is complete for the remainder of the land?
If the LHP was viable, and not just a burden to the county/town, then wouldn’t they (Wang and Rechler) want to pursue it on their own. Is it not in the county’s best interest to sell the land that they can do nothing with (or at least they weren’t able to for 40 years)
I’m guessing there is an answer to this puzzle outside the box… and the fact that all parties are in line it is something that will eventually be presented where those parties have an opportunity for success. I really hope that they aren’t considering that they can pay off $400M solely with a percentage of revenues….
If he can ull this off maybe it will become the Town of Wangstead.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on May 12, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

As I see it now...

It does appear more and more like an investment for the County…

Correct me if I’m wrong here …

  • The County funds the construction of a new arena / entertainment destination
  • The Islanders as the anchor tenent pays a portion of their Gross revenues to the County as prescribed by their NEW (pending) lease agreement. (Does the Isles Entertainment Division receive revenues from other events?)
  • The formula for the County to receive revenues in effect makes it a partner with the Islanders in the hopes that the Islanders become a lucrative venture, along with the other events.

In theory it seems doable … In practice it will require patience and community support of this new complex. I myself would like to see the Nassau Veterans Memorial Entertainment Complex host more than just a minor league ball park and the new “< insert corporate name here > Arena and Convention Center” … I’d like to see a year round entertainment center with a few sheets of ice for a practice rink and youth hockey. A few other ameneties other than a theater … Perhaps indoor water park, skiing and golfing. A true destination center. There is room for it.

Can’t wait to be talking about Islanders hockey again at the rookie camp.

by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on May 12, 2011 4:35 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

A vote like this why some teams have left town.

Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!

by Martys301 on May 12, 2011 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

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Islanders Schedule

1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


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