SEAN BERGENHEIM, we are so stupid.
by Adam Leistman on Apr 30, 2011 3:50 PM EDT
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PrintOh crap, dear Islander fans we are all morons. About a week before the playoffs began, I thought to myself, you know what I bet old bergie would do well in the playoffs because of his style of play. Now don't go and say I knew that or I never wanted him to go because I was here when he left and I can't remember all that many voices crying over his leaving. Now that we are in round two I am ashamed in how stupid I was in wanting Bergie gone. "Make room for a youngster" I thought. What a moron I was and any body else that did the same. Bergie's problem was that he played playoff style hockey in the regular season, how was I so blind to not see it? Next year if the Isles make the playoffs, I bet we miss old Bergie, Garth Snow should never let him go.
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I didnt like seeing him go either
but I just dont know where he would fit on our team. I cant see him on our top two lines (even though i feel it would be better if Parenteu was on a lower line) and maybe he would fit on the third line, but until Schremp was claimed off waivers there wasnt a lot of room on offense. And maybe if we kept him we wouldnt have taken Grabner off of waivers. Idk about you but I would rather have Grabner than Bergenheim. I am happy seeing him do so well along with Thompson and Rolie tho
Yeah no regrets here
Like you said, if we kept him then maybe we don’t pick up Grabner. Or if we do he doesn’t get a full chance to shine. And PAP was as good as Bergie ever was for us. A good 8 game stretch is not going to make me lament. If he gets a 30 goal season then maybe but so far no regrets.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Sean Bergenheim
There was more than a few people that didn’t want to see Bergy go and I was one of them. The argument against Bergy has almost always related to the penalties that he takes,but I would rather have someone takiing the odd “bad penalty” and skating and hitting like Bergy than than someone else who plays a more cerebral and less intense game.
I am not saying tht Bergenheim is not a smart player just that when a guy plays a high octane style sometimes there just isn’t time to make smart decisions and that includes the opposition.
While we are on the Tampa Bay front I have got to get in another plug for Marc-Andre Bergeron who is now 4 and 0 in the playoffs. MAB teams seem to go on long playoff runs.It helps when every turnover that you make doesn’t end up in the back of the net I suppose.It is my belief that DiPietro’s inability to make the timely big save is what got MAB voted off the Island.
I was on the keeper side as well
You don’t develop a guy for that many years and see him finally turning the corner to then just let him walk, but I’ve made my peace with the decision and have moved on. I try to be glass half full and think his spot was taken by Grabner, not held by Schremp.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
Yeah, my feelings too
Didn’t like releasing the asset, but have turned the page.
Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.
I look at bergie as a guy who played on a shitty team here
I wasnt happy he was gone…I wanted him to score more goals because he did show glimpses of how good he could be…I thought of bergy would develop into a good 3rd liner..We let him go when he was still so young and raw…I just think Isles fans expect too much out of certain guys…I call it the Comeau effect…I dont understand why so many Isles fans trash Comuea as well…Hes a good 3rd liner…Stop expecting too much from certain guys…
2nd favorite Islander
Bossy was my all time favorite with Bergie a second, hated seeing him go, loved the way he plays game 7 style hockey every shift, he wasnt great on breakaways and took bad penalties because of his aggressive style but he had to be better than Trevor Gillies
Power down soldiers!!
I think we all knew Bergie would become a good 3rd liner, but so will Martin in time(albeit playing a different style). Besides, Grabner is basically Bergie on Crack!!
Lighthouse Hockey: Best sports blog in NY.
by backstop87 on Apr 30, 2011 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Just not a good fit
He’s a 3rd liner…our 3rd line has Bailey and Comeau on it, and the way Schremp played at the end of last season, he looked way better than Bergie.
To me, it looked like we needed to make a choice between the Comeau enigma or the Bergenheim enigma, with one having better hands and one hitting more. Id much rather have Comeau. (Now i feel dirty) The Lighning dont need to rely on Bergie’s roster spot for goal scoring…up until this year (which really is an accident because Grabs fell into our laps), we did. Trust me, I think if Bergie was here this year he’d be scapewagon fodder. We’d see all of the chances he didn’t bury, all of the bad penalties etc. When you see Bergenheim now, it’s always highlight reel stuff because NHL.com or TSN or whatever don’t show “look, here’s a guy who’s wide open and shot it wide”.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 30, 2011 7:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Don't forget
Comeau is a much better PK’er.
I don’t miss Bergie, don’t underestimate that he was playing with one of the most offensively explosive teams in the league.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
That too
Younger, cheaper, better PK (although, Bergy wasn’t bad at that). It’s easy to miss theeae guys in hindsight and playing in different situations, I’ll take BC, PAP, MG, over him in a second for regular playing time and Haley, Martin and Konopka for hitting and bad penalties and any of: grit, jam, pugnaciousness, truculence, sandpaper…etc.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 30, 2011 8:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Isles knew what they had in Bergie. They knew his talent ceiling, but they had guys who they needed to give NHL time to like Joensuu, Martin, etc.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Right now, you are seening an anomaly
Bergy currently is in a stretch where he is producing at 3X his previous season high rate for goals per 60 minutes of ice time Maybe he is just “clutch”, and if he sustains this, I’ll agree with you, but chances are, he will regress to his usual.
He has played with the best teammates against pretty weak competition. which was not the norm for him during the regular season. His Corsi isn’t too bad, but those numbers are also probably inflated by his linemates. I listened to your anti-statistics podcast, but seriously “Bergie is just better” is a pretty weak argument…I’m sure you can do better if that is actually a position you believe in. Please somhow back up that Bergy is better than Comeau…Schremp I’ll give you, but they are different skill sets entirely.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
What are you regretting exactly?
The guy has 5 points in 9 games. 15 hits in 9 games. He’s a +1 in 9 games. Youre looking at a 40 point scorer over a full season and a hit and a half per game. We’ve got those guys. We didn’t need to keep another one who had a propensity for taking bad penalties at bad times.
Intently glued to every COZO
by Chris McNally on May 2, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that we were frustrated with him because we expected too much
He was a first round pick and was looked at as a goal scorer, but wasn’t scoring a lot of goals for us, and was finally let go. Now that he’s scoring in Tampa, we all regret what we’ve said about his ability. But really, I could do without him. I agree, I’m not sure where he would fit in on this team.
But he's not even scoring more for TB really
he has a playoff hot streak going with 4 goals in 5 games. He had a 4 in 5 (40% of his season total) game stint for us in ‘09-’10 (which can also be looked at as 5 in 31) and 6 in 5 (also 40% of his season total) in ‘08-’09 (which could also be looked at as 8 in 24). He is sometimes streaky and plays well…really, let’s see how it goes.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 30, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
We've seen his streaks come and go.
Like I posted, good for Bergie, but I don’t regret sending him on his way. Every time a former Islander finds success elsewhere, it doesn’t make the decision to let him go a bad one.
Hunter said he was just finishing his check.
don’t get me wrong i like comeau, maybe not shremp so much, but bergie is a perfect forth line engery guy who comes through in the playoffs, those are hard to find. comeau is third line guy for me and i sorry mat martin, i just don’t think he is nhl material. i watched him this year and he skates worse than i do, cant stick handle all that well, his shot is nothing to write home about, sure he takes the body a lot but thats all he brings. i think even in a forth line we can to better, keep him for depth but if i was garth that would all i keep him for.
I'll agree right now
he is a better player than Matt Martin…but he wasn’t a better player than Trent Hunter, or Michael Grabner or Doug Weight or the promise of Nino Niederreiter. At the end of last year, Schremp was nearly a PPG player, so it is understood why he was kept. This year, our 4th line was probably going to end up being (if we were healthy) Konopka, Weight, Hunter, Gillies with each of those guys having some specific skill set that made them more valuable than Bergenheim (Konopka-faceoffs, PK, pugilism. Weight-captain, PP point, jack of all trades, multiple positions. Hunter-defensively sound, physical, minimal penalty min, PK. Gillies-mustache/corresponding rides). This year, we also needed that line to kick some ass and needed to sacrifice some scoring to bring that…we added scoring to the upper lines.
I would also argue that Martin’s hands are a bit better than Bergy’s, but that really can’t be proven yet because he really wasn’t in much of a scoring role. But the goals he did score were pretty nice I thought. Time will tell on that one.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 30, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Another difference between Bergie and Martin...
Bergie’s skills have more than likely reached their peak, while Martin is young and still learning. Maybe Bergie shows something new next season, but it seems unlikely given his production (as was pointed out to me somewhere here) hasn’t really skyrocketed given his new surroundings. The fact that he is playing well in the playoffs is no more indicative of a change in his overall plan than the various streaks he would hit as an Islander.
The fact that someone on a hockey message board can claim that Martin skates worse than him is not really a valid critique of Martin’s skating. It’s probably likely that Martin skates better than 90% of us here since he is one of the few players to make it into the top hockey league in the world.
This post is directed more to adam than keith.
Hunter said he was just finishing his check.
As one of the guys who did cry bloody murder...
…I have to say that I got over it by around game 20 this year. I don’t think it was Bergy vs Comeau in the off season. It was Bergy vs (JJ, Martin and Nino). Those are the three players that would be auditioning for bottom 6 forward (LH) roles this year. None were better than Bergie, but all hold the potential and promise of being more valuable.
The only one I wouldn’t trade bergy for heads up is JJ. Nino will be a top 6 forward for most of his career, and Martin has the potential to be a physical goalscoring force that we haven’t seen in a long long time…. as long as we show the patience not exhibited on this team for a long long time.
I’d love to have Bergy back, he was one of my favorites(as is well documented on this site). But, considering that Snow had the foresight to see what was in HIS system, and what the future Islanders will look like, I think he did the right thing. You have to remember that Bergy was shopped (most likely) at last year’s deadline with NO TAKERS…. And when he became a UFA there was no bidding war for his services. Probably, if Lacroix wasn’t in the Tampa camp Bergy is in the SEL.
I wish Sean all the best… I hope he gets to skate with the cup next month… and he becomes a consistent 25-30 goal scorer for TB… but I now look at last year’s move as something that made room for a 10 game audition for Nino, and the very lucky roster spot openning for Michael Grabner. Plus we get a guy like Martin who may not have the CORSI’s but if that fourth lne becomes Martin-Haley-Hunter his production will DOUBLE in his sophomore year.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Your memory is sound and correct
I recall you being along for the keep Bergie ride and in the end you and I were in agreement by the 20 game mark. You can’t keep everyone and sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omelet (for whatever that cliche means).
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
And I believe that omelette gets you a Grabner.
by Fabtraption on May 4, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am SO fine with that.
What people need to remember is that it took THREE ENTIRE SEASONS for Bergie to score as many goals for this team as Grabner scored in his rookie season.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 4, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't disagree, as I stated above (yesterday) it's an equation I can live with
More than happy to have Grabner and I can pretend it was an either or for Bergenhiem.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
Bergy was restricted
He wasn’t a UFA, he was an RF and Snow just opted not to put in an offer sheet for him. But I agree with your major points JP. However many are comparing Grabs to Bergy and it was never an either/or equation… If things went another way we could have had them both on the team together. But I’ve moved on and I’m happy to see Bergy get some success and recognition in the post season.
Wonder if maybe Bergie would do better under Capuano
but who knows.
Founder, President and sole member of the Bruno Gervais fan club
Can we move on?
Seriously? I thought this was a joke.
by Sal Interlandi on May 1, 2011 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
That horse bolted out of the old barn long time ago!
We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on May 2, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And I think it took a bad slashing penalty....
or used its mighty stone hands to skate right up to the goalie and get the puck poked off its stick.
Hunter said he was just finishing his check.
Im happy for him
but i still wouldnt want him back with us. he needed the change as we did. he had reached his plateau with us and for him, and our organization, to grow, he had to move on.
Sometimes your the dog, sometimes your the hydrant
Why are we the morons?
Bergie was not productive as an Islander especially under Scott Gordon. Bergie had plenty of time in this organization to become a core member of the team, but his erratic play and inconsistency led to his release.
The fact that he’s doing so well in Tampa is a credit to his own desire to prove himself a useful NHL player. I’m glad he’s doing well in the playoffs and I have no regrets in the Isles releasing him.
Hunter said he was just finishing his check.
He's actually not doing THAT well in Tampa
He finished the season with 29 points in 82 games, given that in 60 and 50 game seasons with the Isles he finished with 24 and 23 points, he pretty much got the point total you would expect out of him over a full season.
He just happened to take advantage of a Depleted Penguins team in the first round as he was playing against AHL’ers. Bergie was an almost PPG player the last time he played most of a season in the A. If your the Pens your trying to stop Stamkos and Vinny, Begie getting a bit hot makes your life hell.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on May 1, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He’s actually not doing THAT well in Tampa
He finished the season with 29 points in 82 games
If PAP or Comeau accomplished only what Bergenheim has accomplished, people would bash them. Oh wait they already do.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 1, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
We always want what we don’t have. I liked Bergy, but if the choice were him or Comeau? I’d certainly take the much maligned 24 goal scorer.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
by Hockey1919 on May 3, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody loved Bergie more than me
hes the very reason i became a hockey fan (true story)
And i was heartbroken when they didnt sign him :/
But it had to happen, i mean look at our roster right now, the only place he could slot in would be to replace martin on the 4th line or next to Bailey, and we already had Schremp to do that. And next year, Niederreiter will (hopefully) be taking that slot next to Bailey so he was simply being edged out by the promise of better players
I wish him the best, but i think it was the right decision to let him go
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
Good for him, but.........
Any nobody can get hot during the playoffs. Look at 89-90 Conn Smythe winner Bill Ranford. Had one glorious playoff run, yet he had a losing record as an NHL goalie during the regular season, and take away his Smythe playoff run (16-6), had a losing playoff record as well.
I guess a change of scenery works for some players. Did for Grabner and Moulson.
"Being thrown under the bus and scorching the back of my neck with a revolving red light."
Oh PLEASE
He is a support player, nothing more. If the Lightning built around the likes of him they wouldnt even BE in the fucking playoffs.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
You can pine for his 20 something points, but I certainly wont.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 1, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
Bergie is NOT an Islander issue anymore.
We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on May 2, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the record...Don't include me in your "We are so stupid"
or “we are all morons”
I’m glad he’s gone, and don’t wan’t him back.
Thank you, now carry on with the Bergie Drivel.
by Sal Interlandi on May 1, 2011 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't miss that spaz at all.
He hustled, I’ll give him that. But I always felt he did more harm than good. Glad he’s doing well in TPA, but I don’t miss him.
by Les Beaver on May 2, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I liked Bergie, but let's not overrate him.
He was a decent physical energy 3rd liner with pk abilities, nothing more or less. He is no miracle worker, but he did play with a lot of heart. But as others said, he was more inconsistent then Comeau. Honestly, we could have used him instead of schremp on the 3rd line this year, but we would have no spot for him next year.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
We agree again
But even with Nino coming, we should add size on D, which you have often stated. Where we disagree is at Goalie, where I think a month or two experiment with DP will cost us a play-off spot unless he returns to form. In the betting fraternity that would be long odds – which I don’t think the team can afford as we approach a show down on an arena and the teams future on the Island. We need a winning season next year, even at the expense of a rebuild that could stall if we just rely on Piks.
Yeah, I personally think DP is going to have a good season this year. Don't ask me why, I just see him starting 40gms this year and throwing up a .910 save percentage or better.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
by OzzyFan on May 5, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hope you are right!
I know I’m repeating myself, but of all the mistakes a team can make, weak at goal is the worst. No doubt Philly has been paying that price for years including of course the very recent collapse in the play-offs.
Bobby Clarke must believe Bernie Parent had no bearing on the Flyers 2 Cups.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
Hard to think he doesn't still weild some level of influence.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
Yeah, it's funny. If the Flyers had a decent goalie, it would be a close series with the bruins right now.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
So that takes us back to DP
My guess is that in camp he pretty much continues where he left off. Looks great for a game or two. Then has swelling in knee – hip problem etc. -sits out – we bring up a replacement – attention shifts to our new blood in net – DP comes back is adequate for a couple of games etc etc sounds familiar. I don’t think Snow will do that next season if he has any hope of making the play-offs and also having decent attendance and fan interest.
That would be a problem. Let's just hope DP is 100% and ready this year. Unless he has an offseason setback, he really should come into the season on his game. He has no excuses this year honestly.
Last year I could understand because he hadn’t played regular hockey in 3yrs~, but this year is different. Having a full healthy offseason and 26starts under his belt this year “should” be the ingredients he needs to come into this season on top of his game. No excuses barring any offseason injuries for him.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I think a lot of the time it takes as long as you were out to get back in your groove.
I think its quite possible for Rick to look a lot better next season, but to expect “top form” after what we saw from him this past season still seems a bit too optimistic to me. He who would learn to fly (again) one day must first (re)learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying. (~Nietzsche)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 8, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it probably is high expectations. But the man works so hard, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in great competitive shape/level by opening day.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I really hope youre right, Ozzy. Isles fans deserve it, and Rick certainly deserves it, too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 8, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sentimentality.....................
doesn’t stop pucks or win games – of course everyone wishes him well – the question is how long an experiment in games can we afford?
Again, alto?
How many times are you going to ask this same question?
the guy is signed and he is on the team. Period. My adivce to you- again- is to accept that fact.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on May 9, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well deserved all around indeed.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
M Chick
If we followed your reasoning – “the guy is signed and he is on the team” then it doesn’t matter how poorly he plays and we are stuck with him for the next 10 years. Not going to happen. The only question remains, how long can this go on if he doesn’t improve? I base it on games and maybe months not the length of his contract.
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
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