A New 'Average' for NHL Goaltenders
Before the draft last summer, a lot of press was given to the youngsters from the United States. At the end of the day it was one of the most prolific drafts for U.S. youth in a while. Some of the credit was given to players coming from non-hockey hotbeds like California and Florida. Of course the association was made that the expansion Lightning, Panthers, Sharks and Ducks helped fuel this, along with Wayne Gretzky's infamous trade to the Kings, igniting West Coast hockey fever.
Interestingly, that same generation would align almost perfectly with Patrick Roy's and Dominik Hasek's rise as two of the elite goaltenders in the world. While radically different when it comes to style, both players put goaltenders on the map in a way never seen before. Much like how Bobby Orr created a whole generation of offense-orientated defenseman, these two goalies have left behind them a new generation of goaltenders.
Tuesday night saw two game 7s, between arguably two of the best goaltenders in the world and two of the most "average" goaltenders in the league. Yet two completely different results, with the average goalie winning one game and the great goalie winning the other. It comes down to this: In the last almost 20 years the difference between great NHL goalies and average NHL goalies is closer then it's ever been before. This season Islander fans saw it up close as Kevin Poulin and Al Montoya came out of nowhere and posted save percentages above .920 with a questionable defense in front of them.
Now the argument against this is that the clutch and grab zone play of the '90s led to lower scoring. But we aren't talking about a few goalies who got better. We're talking about a league wide change in save percentage. In 92-93 when Roy won the cup with Montreal, there were 5 goalies with a SV% above .900 who played over 35 games. Of those, only two of them were above .910, Felix Potvin (.910) and Curtis Joseph (.911). By the 99-00 season there were 31 players who fit the same criteria and only two of them were below a .900 SV%. Fifteen of them fell between .900 and .910. Thirteen of them were between .911 and league leading .919 (Dominik Hasek, Ed Belfour).
This year though, the league had 33 goalies who fit the criteria. Only 4 goalies were under a .900 SV%, five goalies who were between .901 SV% and .909 SV% and 12 goalies between .910 SV% and .919 SV%. The top 11 goalies in the league this year had a 920 SV% or better. Not even 20 years ago you didn't have anyone getting close to a .920 SV%, and now the league leader has been over a .930 SV% since 08-09.
This means it stands out even more when a goalie struggles. No goalie in the league is asked to stop everything. Defenses have evolved to the point where they try to limit high percentage scoring chances. So when a goalie continually gives up goals on stoppable shots, it stands out more then it did in the past. Goalies with a SV% under .900 just aren't going to get many chances to turn it around, unless teams have no choice.
It is such a tough battle to get to the NHL level for goalies that we are now seeing the best of the best. Think about the number of good goalies across the Canadian Juniors, the American colleges and even the lower leagues of the American hockey system. NHL teams will have at most 2-3 goalies, along with their AHL affiliates having 2-3 goalies. To get a contract with an NHL team means you've proven yourself on multiple levels time and time again. Even then there's no guarantee that you'll be a success on the NHL level.
The difference between the top goalies in the league, and the rest of the goalies in the top half of the league is so small that you can no longer rely on goaltending to get you through. Odds are that you are going to face at least one or two teams during the playoffs with equal goaltending. Bad goaltending though can cost you a series, as the Flyers almost found out the hard way.
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i defer entirely ...
to you (and other more analytical observers than i) as far as the numbers and stats are concerned, but i definitely agree that the margin between the very top goalies and the rest of the good ones has narrowed. until just a few years ago, having the best or hottest goalie was singularly THE most important thing. the relative parity among the top 10 or 15 guys has evened the playing board, and i guess heightens the importance of the PP and the PK. it also makes for closer and more exciting series. it seems like there not only are more playoff OT’s over the last few years, but more mutiple OT-games. i wonder if the stats bear that out.
Errr some inaccuracies here:
The difference between the top goalies in the league, and the rest of the goalies in the top half of the league is so small that you can no longer rely on goaltending to get you through. Odds are that you are going to face at least one or two teams during the playoffs with equal goaltending. Bad goaltending though can cost you a series, as the Flyers almost found out the hard way.
This isn’t true. What IS true is that in a small series, there’s too much variance for a team to simply be able to coast via goaltending.
IT IS TRUE that goaltending in general has gotten better – I’ve heard the prominence of the butterfly is to blame. But why goaltending isn’t seeming to matter often in the playoffs is a small sample size issue. Remember a whole season is not enough for us to understand the true worth of a goaltender and a playoff series is less than a 10th of a regular season.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
In the 90s though, there seemed to be a limited supply of “elite” or “Stanley Cup” caliber goaltenders. Those who were considered on that level seemed to move around in some very confusing trades. For example when the Senators traded away Ron Tugnutt for Tom Barasso because they wanted a playoff vet. Or when the Red Wings added Mike Vernon. Or when the Avs added Roy. I think in today’s NHL the talent of goalies is so close together, that there are very few regular starters that a team would be uncomfortable with entering the post season.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Agreed somehwat.
There was a greater variance of goaltending talent back then. At the same time, just like today, the fact remained: in a 7 game series, having a clear goalie advantage did not necessarily indicate being the favorite, simply because of the small sample size.
Take a look at Roy and Hasek’s Playoff numbers for instance (SV%) – they go all over the place.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
It's kind of a disturbing trend to me
I don’t want to get in to a era like baseball’s "Dead Ball Era’. It might be time to widen the goal or reshrink the pads. I’m not looking for 10-7 games but 1-0 should be a rarity.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
I think 1-0
is a rarity today, at least without checking. The worries about hockey becoming dead ball were more legitimate during the late 90s and before the lockout. I don’t see a lot of teams using clutch and grab defenders as much anymore, and we’ve seen some of them disappear a lot younger in age then you might expect.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Getting rid of the two line pass was big
Things would have been a lot worse. No way Grabs gets over 30 if we still had that rule. The post lockout rules was certainly a step forward. My worry, when it comes to better goaltending & defense, is that if you have lots of low scoring games then you end up with more games decided on a bad bounce or odd play. I also don’t like how a team trailing going in to the third is almost certain to loose. There needs to be more come from behind victories, I think. I’m not sure what it will take. Move the blue lines further back? Widen the rink? The Net? I’m kind of nit-picking I know but I think we can still make the game better.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
there's only so much you can do about lead rallies
There are three general trends in play there, and I’d link where I’d seen them if I had saved them. (He said, copping out.)
1. the more scoring events there are, the easier it is to rally
2. the lower the skill level, the easier it is to rally
3. but higher scoring events and lower skill levels make it harder to register upsets
Again, without the links where these things were investigated mathematically, I can’t offer you the objective evidence – but I can recall the logic that went along with it.
Trend #1 is fairly simple: when scoring events are rare, getting only a few points is usually sufficient to win. There just aren’t enough chances to erase that margin. Teams instinctively realize this, which is how we get strategies specifically designed to kill offensive opportunites: ranging in effectiveness from prevent defenses to the dreaded “trap.”
Trend #2 is also straightforward. What’s a one or two goal lead in a world where goalies aren’t inhumanly capable and defenders aren’t so fast and relentless? It’s easier for my team to erase (or blow) a three-goal lead than it is for a pro team, recent examples in the playoffs notwithstanding.
BUT – these kind of lead to Trend #3. If either team is more likely to rally from a deficit, it’s a stronger team, so in higher-scoring and lower-skill environments, where it is in fact easier to rally, we find far fewer upsets. The #8 seed in the NBA has a much much lower chance of advancing than the #8 seed in the NHL, in part because of the greater scoring environment. More events means more opportunites for greater skill to prevail.
For our purpose, it works out that higher seeds (and their elite goalies) won more often in the go-go 80’s in hockey than they do today, again partly due to the higher-scoring environment, but in this case, also due to lower overall skill in a vital area – goalkeeping. Ironically, the greater skill of an elite goalie makes a bigger difference in the higher-scoring environment than the lower. Back then, if Money von Pückstopper had a shaky moment and gave up a softie, it wasn’t a big deal – his team would almost certainly get it back from Shaky McSeiverson. And in an environment where each team gives up ten good scoring chances, MVP gets ten chances to contribute to his team’s success with great stops. He makes eight of those, while ol’ Shaky only stops half, and it’s smooth sailing.
In the aughts, however, were only two or three good chances, and thus far fewer opportunities for that advantage to assert itself. It’s a little easier to stop three good chances than ten, even if you’re Shaky. It also meant that if MVP only stopped two (and heck, they ARE good scoring chances), his team was stuck trying to make up a deficit in an environment where scoring was much less likely. Even if Shaky blew it with a softie, that only got the better team level. That’s before we get to the increase in overall skill, where Shaky has improved to at least competent, or (more likely) has been replaced by Wally Butterflier, who boringly blocks everything.
So that’s the dilemma… we love exciting hockey. We need the possibility of an exciting comeback to stay invested in an otherwise humdrum 2-0 game; but we want it through an increase in events, not a lower-skill environment. A 1-0 game is plenty exciting if there are many scoring chances; it’s painful if the only goal came from a fluke because there’s no open ice to create good plays.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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I still insist it was the goalie-as-puckhandler that changed everything
In the 80’s if the goalie left the net to handle the puck he could be hit like any other player.
I saw Duane Sutter smash Pete Peeters into the Uniondale glass over and over until he got the message.
The change that started the death of offense was when they made ANY hit on the goalie interference or charging or whatever. That gave every team a third defenseman who couldn’t be hit. What did they think would happen?
That change made Martin Brodeur the greatest goaltender in league history.
I think it also created the trap. There was no trap in the 80’s because if anyone had tried to run the trap, you’d just dump and run. If the goalie left the net you’d bury him. You’d dump the puck into the corner and grind down the defensemen until they could barely skate by the third period.
I also think the “move the puck and don’t allow it to be frozen” philosophy, ostensibly to speed up the game, helped decrease offense. Maybe it causes a play stoppage, but an offensive zone faceoff is an OPPORTUNITY for a defenseman to score from the point or for a forward to score on a rebound. The classic “Trottier wins faceoff, Potvin shoots on net, Bossy buries rebound” play became much more rare because the number of offensive zone faceoffs decreased when it became impossible to get a whistle by tying the puck up in the corner. This also helped the trap, because it also militated against the dump and run.
People thought that getting rid of the dump and run would lead to a “skating and artistry” game, but the fact of the matter is that it’s damn hard to skate around a defense and score. The rules changes didn’t give us artistry, they gave us the trap and 1-0 games.
Maybe Brodeur-ing the puck affects goals overall...but save percentage?
If goalies handling the puck cut down on chances, that still wouldn’t explain an increase in save percentage (which is just shots saved out of shots faced).
I’m intrigued by the idea that Roy and Hasek and other masked heroes might have influenced kids running to be goalies. Certainly it’s “safer” now to be a goalie with the equipment — you don’t have to be bat$hit crazy like you used to in order to don the pads.
But to me it comes down to defenses being better coached and more talented (the #5 and #6 D-men of today look like Bobby Orr compared to those of the ’80s, when goons were often allowed to be D-men), but even more than that: Butterfly style and homogenized goaltender coaching.
The butterfly style overall is a percentage approach: Cover the areas most likely to get shots, reducing the amount you rely on reflexes. New padding that makes going down into the butterfly seamless makes that possible, and thus the old-fashioned “toe save” is a thing of the past, as is skating out to the faceoff circle and hoping an on-rushing winger doesn’t find the hole.
Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.
The Butterfly
I think Dom is spot on. If you ever get the chance, try being a goalie and playing the old standup style. It’s nearly impossible. Watching goalies in the 80s from old clips, it’s amazing they stopped as much as they did.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Chicken or egg question (because they're always fun)
Shooters used to aim low just because of that reason…(it was hard to move your feet). Do you think the “stack the pads”/ lay across the the goal thing led to the “elevated shot”? Do you think the “elevated shot” led to better glove hands leading to faking and opening up the 5 hole? Do you think opening the 5 hole led to the butterfly? I think all of these things can kind of be put in an evolutionary order…know what I mean?
You wonder how shooter tendencies went over the years and what caused what to evolve first.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
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I was thinking of this
And I think it’s a lot easier to use your glove hand while your on your knees as compared to standing up. I think I remember very rarely actually gloving a puck from the air while standing, but I definitely got more while on my knees.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
The stance does have a lot to do with it
If you’re going strict stand-up, and you can’t get your feet to the lower corners as easily, you tend to use your stick and gloves, or else (as Kevin rightly noted) you sprawl or pad stack. That’s what Peeters was trying to do on Nystrom’s goal, for example. Standing and keeping your glove high meant getting beat to those low corners, so you had to keep the gloves lower… and get beat to the top corners instead.
The solution was to let the pads work the low corners while keeping the gloves ready for the high shots.
Another thing – if a majority of the shots are low, then even though you will catch a few of them, you won’t get nearly as many as when you’re dropping and shooters are trying to pick you high. It’s just a matter of having more opportunities. Not that I was ever known for my glove hand anyway, but that seems to be what I’ve noticed in watching over the years.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Where to begin.....
Equipment — Goalies can now stop a puck without risking death, leading them to be able to play the butterfly style without being injured by shots to the body. Leading to….
Butterfly style and scientific positioning — Goalies can now go down and block the bottom of the net. In Bossy’s day, how many times did he come down the wing and blast one to the far corner from the top of the circle? A lot. Now that’s a really simple save for pretty much any goalie. Goaltedning much more a science rather than an art, now.
It can go on, but the improved, lighter equipment with better protection is the key. Goalies now don’t feel pain when the puck hits them, so they dont have to rely on leg pads and gloves to make saves.
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 28, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
I posted this I think last week. NHL Network had a special about the evolution of the goalie mask, and Steve Weekes interviewed a number of goalies. Ken Dryden had a really interesting comment. Basically, he said back in the era of no mask/crappy mask coaches instructed players during practice to shoot low so as to not accidentally injure the goalie with a shot to the face. It sounded like they would face a fairly substantial consequence for shooting high (and possibly a beating from the goalie himself). Dryden said because of this guys never shot high in games either because they were conditioned that way. One of his quotes was that in essence he was defending a net that was only three feet high. Very interesting interview.
I think the equipment in general has really changed it. The butterfly isn’t anything new really-Glen Hall used it in the 50s. But the oversized pads has made it far more effective now. It’s almost comical to watch highlights of the 80s and look at the leg pads goalies wore. I’m fairly certain if we went back to that size scoring would go way up. Additionally the butterfly would cease to be as effective.
I think what the butterfly has done to seemingly improve goaltending is that positioning and technique get you 85% of the way there; i.e. you can be an all right goalie without actually making any saves. Then the guys who can really anticipate plays, make saves with the glove, clear their own rebounds, etc (do all the things great goalies of the past did) separate themselves from the pack.
they were also heavier
Today’s pads start out lighter and absorb much less water and sweat during the game than the old leather and hair-stuffed sofa cusions those guys used. Late in a game they could be a pound or two heavier. Going down in them made it awful hard to get back up.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Actually
I posted this I think last week. NHL Network had a special about the evolution of the goalie mask, and Steve Weekes interviewed a number of goalies. Ken Dryden had a really interesting comment. Basically, he said back in the era of no mask/crappy mask coaches instructed players during practice to shoot low so as to not accidentally injure the goalie with a shot to the face. It sounded like they would face a fairly substantial consequence for shooting high (and possibly a beating from the goalie himself). Dryden said because of this guys never shot high in games either because they were conditioned that way. One of his quotes was that in essence he was defending a net that was only three feet high. Very interesting interview.
I think the equipment in general has really changed it. The butterfly isn’t anything new really-Glen Hall used it in the 50s. But the oversized pads has made it far more effective now. It’s almost comical to watch highlights of the 80s and look at the leg pads goalies wore. I’m fairly certain if we went back to that size scoring would go way up. Additionally the butterfly would cease to be as effective.
I think what the butterfly has done to seemingly improve goaltending is that positioning and technique get you 85% of the way there; i.e. you can be an all right goalie without actually making any saves. Then the guys who can really anticipate plays, make saves with the glove, clear their own rebounds, etc (do all the things great goalies of the past did) separate themselves from the pack.
I think this is exactly why
You don’t draft goalies higher than the 4th round, you don’t trade good position players for goalies and you don’t over-spend on goalies.
I’ve always suspected that there wasn’t a huge disparity between so called elite goalies and your run-of-the-mill journeyman starters like Roloson or Biron. I am much more in favor of either signing a journeyman to a one or two year contract or cultivating good young goalies that you either draft in later rounds or sign undrafted goalies out of college or juniors.
Milbury drove me nuts by 1) Trading Brian Berard for Felix Potvin 2)drafting Luongo with a first round pick and 3) drafting DiP with a first overall pick. Its hard to know what kind of Berard could of been without the injuries but one thing for sure is that we haven’t given him enough time to devolop. As aggrevated as the Luongo pick made me we did take a good goalie and trading him away didn’t make any sense and I always liked DP but felt he was slighly overrated and did not warrent a first overall pick.
This was something I was thinking about doing for another article. I think with goaltending talent being so close together, someone really only stays an elite goalie in the league while they are at their peak. A lot of goalies today seem to have a 4-5 year stretch of being dominate, and two years later they are nowhere to be seen. It’s even worse if they suffer an injury by the time they start hitting a decline.
Personally I still don’t have any trouble with drafting goalies high, just don’t put all your eggs in one basket.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yeah I guess I don’t have a huge problem with drafting a goalie high if you have the picks. A first round pick is fine if its not your only first round pick or you are not rebuilding I guess. I just think position players are so much harder to find outside of the draft.
I have always felt that since teams have only two roster spots availble for goalies there are a lot of talented goalies out there looking for jobs. Only a few goalies get drafted out of each league each year so a lot of talented goalies get passed over
it's old thinking
Like playing small ball in a world where teams score five or six runs a game. Why play for only one run when the other team is going to blow that run right out of the water? But when teams only scored half that, then one run was a big deal. Unfortunately, even when the game changed, the brains behind it didn’t. They were stuck trying to build 3-2 teams in a 7-5 world. Same thing here… it’s easier to be passable, and more goalies have that acceptable skill, so going for the Big Game Guy is much less productive than it used to be… but people are still stuck in the “you need elite goalie to win Stanley Cup” world, which ended with the dawn of the Dead Puck Era, where Chris Osgood could win three Cups by punching the clock for the Detroit Red Wings – and even then, the Wings, who are by all accounts run by brilliant hockey minds, went out for Mike Vernon instead of trusting their perfectly serviceable starter. (And luckily Vernon was also perfectly serviceable, but it falsely reinforced the notion of the essential Big Game Goalie.)
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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holy crap
I just realized what a spectacular run-on sentence that was. I’m turning myself in to the Grammar Squad.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Osgood won 3 cups
But two of them were with Mike Vernon doing the heavy lifting. They couldn’t win it with just him starting until the last few years.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
almost
The Wings overreacted to the sweep in ’95 by Jersey by getting Vernon for 1995-96. But Osgood was superior in both the regular season and playoffs, even though they lost to the Avs. In 96-97, Osgood was again better in the regular season (.910 to .899, not insignificant, and he had six SO to none for Vernon). The Wings went to Vernon anyway, and he rode their 22.4 sh/60 defense all the way to the Cup – I tend to think Osgood could have done that just as well, especially when they defended in ’98 with Osgood playing the whole way.
Of course, they sent him off, won in 2002 with Hasek, and with Osgood returning they won in ’08.
Ozzie was the starter for the ‘98 and ’08 Cups, and at least a contributor to Detroit’s success in the standings in ‘95-’97, though it was Vernon who played the 1997 playoffs.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Goaltending Improvement....
It may be Hasek/Roy to some extent, but some of it has got to be due to technology upgrades… lighter materials, bigger pads, more mobility?
And let’s not rule out the bigger, more mobile defense… which were rarely found together before 1990….you were either one or the other… now 210+ lbs can dangle,…and angle.
Another improvement is moderate goalie protection beyond the Billy Smith “NOT SO CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT”
Better athletes are becoming goaltenders… and BIGGER athletes are donning hte pads. Maybe that’s a direct influence of Roy/hasek heroism… or it just may be that the 180lb kids of the 80’s are the 210 lb kids of the 21st century.
Interesting post!
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
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I think goalies have gotten more efficient too
Better training and coaching has maximized goalie effeciency. A lot of goaltending up until 10 years ago was trial by error. Stand-up goaltending required a lot of athletitism and wasn’t particulary efficient and butterfly was an improvement. Now you see more of what is called “hyrbid style” goaltending and I think it takes advantage of positioning and angles making goalies more efficent and turns what would in the past require acrobatic saves to be routine stops.
It would be interesting
To find out if goalies are watching a lot more tape on players too. Just from my own time as a goalie, I know when I was playing against players I knew I could guess where they were going to shoot. But when I played against players I had never seen before I had to guess where they were most likely to go.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I was going to add that too...
You hear a lot more about spending more time in the video room. i assume that goes for goalies as well, especially as their level (and team budget) increases.
Expanded coaching staffs are also a help. I can’t remember the Islanders having a goalie coach in the dynasty years, now they have two. I think that also goes down to the developmental levels, as some teams have organizational goalie coaches, and I’d bet that the better college and junior teams employ somebody to help in that specialized capacity.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
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That is an excellent point.
The evolution of the position seems to have accelerated since the late 70’s….
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
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Goaltending has become average!
How many times have you seena goalie come out a cut down thw angle without being on his knees? How many time have you seen a goalie make a kick save? How many times have you seen a goalie stck the pads? rarely.
What you see now is every gaalie go down to his kness for every shot, from any angle and whatever distance from the net? Answer: every time. What you see on 95% of goals is shooters going top shelf. Equipment has not only improved but become oversize. I equate this to those over size rackets tennis players started using 15-20 years ago. It masks (somewhat) a short change in talent. Ctaching gloves are enourmous now, pads now come all the way up to the hips. It has gotten way out of hand. IMO goaltending has NOT gotten better it has gotten average.
We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on Apr 28, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yep... that was my point.
I’d really like to see a game where the goalies were restricted to the pad size of the 70’s… and I’d like Ranger Goalies to be forced to play without a mask as a penalty for employing Avery.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
my one argument
It’s not a one way road, the forwards have gotten bigger, faster, harder slap shots. Meanwhile the sticks have advanced allowing featherlike play of the puck. Better Skates help make players faster, lighter equipment speeds them up and allows more flexibility. It’s not just goalies who have improved equipment.
"And Campbell knows that if head-shots are eliminated, fighting must be eliminated too. Since fighting is, by definition, punching people in the head" - Quisp
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Diagree
Watching goaltenders nowadays is much more boring; you don’t see the athletic, acrobatic saves you used to see. Everything they do seems much more routine. Watching the game you could come to the conclusion that goalies are worse now but the numbers don’t support that. Save percentages have risen over the years. Goalies are more effecient, have better positioning and are better at working angles. making saves look boring, routine, mundane is a good thing. Guys like Hextall and Hrudey made such fantastic highlight reel saves because they were putting themselves out of position. Sports evolve and we learn from the past. We learn what works and what doesn’t. He have tapes of generations of goalies to learn from their mistakes and learn what has worked. Bigger pads are just better for the style of goaltending we see now. The reason goalies in the past didn’t use bigger pads because they preffered smaller pads- they were more conducive (sp?) to the style they played then. Smaller pads meant lighter pads. Technology has allowed us to make bigger pads lighter but I feel if goalies still played like Kelly Hrudey we would still see goalies rocking those tiny pads.
I am just curious
How was this league ever non offensive in the 90s. At certain points it seemed like most top players had at least a PPG and the elite averaged at least 100 points. I mean hell, even average players were at the point where they could reach 70 to 80 points on a career year.

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