Islander Goalies The Best Of Times The Worst of Times
| Player | TTL GP | 0 GA | 1 GA | 2 GA | 3 GA | 4 GA | 5 GA | 6 GA | 7 GA | Gd | Gd % | Avg | Avg % | Bd | Bd % |
| Rick DiPietro | 26 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 30.77% | 6 | 23.08% | 12 | 46.15% |
| Al Montoya | 20 | 1 | 3 | 8 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 12 | 60.00% | 6 | 30.00% | 2 | 10.00% |
| Dwayne Roloson | 20 | 0 | 7 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 50.00% | 5 | 25.00% | 5 | 25.00% |
| Kevin Poulin | 10 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 60.00% | 3 | 30.00% | 1 | 10.00% |
| Nathan Lawson | 10 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 50.00% | 2 | 20.00% | 3 | 30.00% |
| Mikko Koskinen | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 2 | 50.00% | 2 | 50.00% |
The above table shows it all. The table shows games played, how many games with # of Goals Against, and % of Good, Average, and Bad Games. Good games are 2 GA or Less, Average games are 3 GA, Bad are 4 GA or more.
For DiPi 30.77 % of his games played were Good. How can the Islanders go into next season thinking he showed anything this season? On the flip side of the coin Al Montoya and Kevin Poulin had 60.00 % of their games as Good. DiPi only had 53.85 % Average or better. On the flip side Al Montoya and Kevin Poulin had 90% Average or better.
So basically DiPi gives you a chance to win a hockey a little bit better than 50% of the time compared to Al Montoya and Kevin Poulin at 90% chance to win a hockey game. Even though Rolonson was here for the big loosing streak he still gave the Islanders 75% of a chance to win a hockey game. The Best of times was Montoya, Poulin, and Roloson. The worst of times is Dipi.
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lol, I'm not saying DP wasn't bad this year, because he was. But he had lingering injury problems and was playing for the 1st time regularly in 3yrs.
He would be rusty even without the injuries. Montoya and DP will split starts at the beginning of the season, after a month or 2 there likely will be a starter named. I wouldn’t worry about it. Just by the odds, DP has to be better then last year. And if DP has a really healthy offseason, who knows how good he “could” be.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
"either way, nice breakdown".
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
If the beginning of the season...................
Takes us too many games to see we still have the same old DP and Montoya has a sophomore slump and Poulin is still slowed or rehabbing his injury, we could end up missing the play-offs by a margin that could result from too much patience at goal. Remember even the optimists have us just sneaking into post-season. With a marginal D, I would not be shocked if Snow goes for a veteran established Goalie. I think that a new NVMC has a better shot with a winning team and 2015 is sneaking up quickly.
Goalie Outlook for 2011 - 2012
Al Montoya - Just like Moulson he must prove this season was not a fluke.
Kevin Poulin - Scares me he has already had a knee operations in both knees, he might be another DiPi waiting to happen.
Rick DiPietro – We can only count on him for 10 – 25 games. As you said it has been 3 1/2 years since he has been able to play regularly. Under no circumstances can we count on anything more.
The Islanders should force Evgeni Nabokov to report to camp or make him sit out the season. He would be our insurance policy for either Montoya or Poulin. I would start Poulin in Bridgeport to see if his knees are healthy. I would have Nabokov and Montoya split the games, If Montoya works out and Poulin is standing on his head in Bridgeport I would then trade Nabokov at the trade deadline.
DiPietro can not be counted on for anything. If the Islanders are relying on him they will not make the playoffs.
That is a good point but my concern is that this is something permanent, not just a result of him playing regularly for the first time in 3 years. So many times athletes are never the same after major injuries. How much time to do we give DP to return to form? At certain point you have to assume he isn’t going to get any better. Not saying we have passed that point yet but as the rest of the team improves we can’t risk losing games while DP tries to regain his pre-injury form.
We have passed the point of no return with DiPi
The injury problems: He has multiple knee operations on both knees, He has had operations on both hips. His latteral movement is extremely inhibited.
His playing strengths and style when he was good (for that whole half a season): Took too many chances with the puck. Not a good position goalie. His cat like reflexes used to bail him out of jams because of the previous two issues.
Outlook: Older goalies make up for their slowing reflexes by playing good position goaltending and making smart decisions with the puck. His reflexes will never be any better than they were 3 1/2 years ago. Due to the injuries his reflexes will only get worse. He is now over 30 now add the injuries. Since he does not position himself well and he make bad decisions with the puck and his cat like reflexes are starting to fail him his outlook is at best a backup goalie. At worst a career AHL depth goalie.
I wouldn't ocunt out DP yet. He had some great positional and reflex games, just not a lot. Give him a little more of a shot before we say the injuries destroyed his nhl starting career completely.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
by OzzyFan on Apr 20, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tight leash
28 games shouldn’t be the judge, jury and executioner of a goaltender… but four unproductive years should be. Unfortunately Dipietro has the “get out of the gas chamber free” card for 10 more years. We can only hope that he will come to some kind of realization by the end of November and we either have a NHL quality goaltender or RDP Night to honor a NYI that made the ultimate sacrifice for the betterment of the organization.
I say the Isles need to sign a #2 NHL goaltender willing to play 25-35 games, or be a healthy scratch for the majority of the season before the deadline. That will be pretty tough to do… but may be the best safety net for a team that can’t afford to be out of the race by Thanksgiving AGAIN.
I know this opinion sucks, but I would have cut him loose (AHL) last year when they made the coaching change. I do like DP, but I can’t believe he has outlasted 6 (Goring, Laviolette, Sterling, Shaw, Nolan and Gordon). In 2010-11 Charles Wang has scraped just about all the egg off of his face that has accumulated over the past 10 years… RDP is like a piece of shell that’s stuck in his eye….
I give him camp and no more than 5 games…. if he doesn’t have his shit together by then… enjoy bus rides through New England lil’ buddy.
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by JPinVA on Apr 19, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It would be interesting to track
how often (percentage) a typical goaltender wins his good/avg/bad starts. I would assume 70/50/30. Another thing to consider would be the idea of “playing down to your competition” like if we score 3, they score 4 etc., and how much a goaltender’s numbers trend toward any of those categories when opposition scores first/team scores first. I’ll bet that makes things even uglier.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
Also, outstanding write up
thought provoking indeed.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
The best scoring team in the NHL this year Vancouver, scored 3.15 goals a game even if you only count the games from Dec 16 on DIPi’s GAA is still 3.06. That does not leave much room. With him as our starter we would be just above a .500 team or just below a .500 team. And that is having the best scoring teams stats.
Yeah, but an average wouldn't work here
Meaning, the goaltending numbers are broken into specifics (1ga, 2ga, etc). I would like to take the average goal scoring teams (like the middle 5) and see how many times they had (1goal for, 2gf, 3gf etc). That way, you could see how often a team needs you to have a 2ga game. Not that it would prove all that much, but those averages will often contain significant ranges.
For example, here it would indicate that DP gave us “a chance to win” in 14 games, but I remember several of his losses being 2-1 or 3-2 (and with him, those were the nights he gave up a softie or “overplayed the puck”). Really, those data can be skewed by the biggest variable of all, timing. Pitching a shutout in a 8-0 win is shitty, just like giving up 7 on a night your team scores six.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
Save percentage and GAA are volatile over the short-term
I would also think that you have to account for the number of shots a goalie faces. If you stop 42 of 46 shots, well, that’s better than 90% and I don’t know that you could be faulted for losing that game or giving up those goals. I would be more interested in a sort of “quality starts” metric accounting for sv% at even strength, as well as goals permitted (I’d say that two or fewer is a good chance to win, even if you don’t get that many shots – say 15 of 17 saved, which is under 90%, is still not a bad game).
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Here is more stats: before Dec 16 3.81 GAA after From Dec 16 on 3.06 GAA. Even though all the Islanders stats improved alot he improved but he was still mediocre. During that same time period from Dec 16 on Montoya GAA was 2.39 and Poulin was 2.44.
well, yeah
Other than not addressing my point at all, good point. I mean, I get it – you don’t like the Rick. You don’t like his game. You kind of let the cat out of the bag up there by saying he had one good half-season. In fact he had much more than that before he was hurt. You could at least be honest about that much before going after the guy now.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Errr, DiPi has had one stellar season
and one average one. That’s it. And the average one was pre-lockout with a poor season in between.
Him being hurt may have prevented him from being a great goalie. But it’s also possible that his one great season was a fluke entirely.
you could say that
But a good year and a decent year are more than one good half-year. And he lost a prime year to the lockout. He could have had a poor year then… I’ve always thought that he should have played overseas or something. He could have had a fine year (following up his decent year) and then perhaps improved on his lousy 05-06. But now, of course, we aren’t ever going to know.
Does anyone here know why Rick didn’t play the AHL or overseas during the lockout?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
I DO NOT HATE DIPI!!!!
1. I do not blame him that Mad Mike traded Luongo
2. I do not blame him for the ridiculous contract that Darth Snow gave him. Anybody would have taken that contract.
3. He has worn his heart on his jersey for the Islanders
4. He had great reflexes
5. He is a great puck handler.
6. He does alot of charity work.
BUT!!!!
1. He was never a good position goalie. Is that the Islanders fault for having a bad goalie coach or is it him because he in uncoachable.I lean twards the Islanders fault,He became a quality goalie inspight of this weekness because of his reflexes.Now his reflexes are nowhere near as quick as they were.
2. Because of his great puck handling ability he becomes to agressive with the puck and makes really DUMB hockey decisions too often.
3. He will not rehab in Bridgeport like he should, and this causes problems on the Islanders. Again is it DiPi or Islanders management that is being stuborn.
4. Before the end of the season I would never have thought my 1st and 3rd issue was even remotely his fault I always blamed the Islanders coaching but his comment, “What Competition?” now makes me believe it could possibly be DiPi not the Islanders.
OK, this makes more sense
I may not agree with it, but this is logical. My objections would be as follows:
1. His problems haven’t been being bad positionally. He’s in position – he’s just not reacting and recovering well. And you can’t blame him for bad positioning when he turns the puck over, either. That’s not the same thing as setting up incorrectly for the shot.
2. A bad puckhandler can also make bad decisions. Two separate issues.
3. Who said he WON’T go to Bridgeport? The only time the Islanders sent him down for conditioning, he went. There’s no basis to say he won’t go.
4. If people were on your ass for four years about injury-caused problems, you might grow weary and occasionally pop off to the press too.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Apr 21, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Snow
While we shoot the S@#t about the goalie situation, our GM is uniquely qualified to see what he has or doesn’t have at that position. I think at this point if we can’t improve there. we are not going to make the play-offs next season period. – regardless of whatever else we do at the skating positions via pik, trade or prayer.
I remember chico resch and billy smith when the islanders were winning four straight stanley cups.
the good ole days. the 70’s: the greatest decade ever.
Jon " Bones " Jones new light heavyweight champion. Even if Jones got struck flush in the face he would recover and defeat whoever is in front of him. I told everyone the fight would be easy. Almost felt sorry for Rua. Anderson Silva would never fight "Bones". He is too scared to fight the real P4P champion. Nick Diaz is near the peak of his career. 2 more fights and then he fights for UFC Glory.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Apr 19, 2011 8:33 PM EDT reply actions
STOP. USING. GAA.
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.
Goalies have a marginal effect (rebounds) on how many shots they face….in reality, nearly all of that is on the team’s defense. And look, you have a metric in Save % which compensates for shots faced (and rebounds will be compensated for too – as those are more likely to lead to a lower SV%).
We have SV% now. It’s a good solid stat. Use it.
Your conclusion is fine, but your choice of statistic is not. Drives me bonkers.
I'm all for statistical measures...
however, IN CONJUNCTION with SV% and other measures, isn’t there a context for GAA that makes it a useful stat? Isn’t there something in a goalie’s mind that, when he allows 2 goals on either 10 shots or 40, tells him to kick it up a notch and NOT ALLOW that 3rd goal to keep his team in the game? For example:
Greg Goalie plays for team A that allows 32 SPG, his SV% is a wonderful .922, his team gives up very few PP and has a great PK, and his GAA is 2.91
Nick Netminder plays for team B that allows 25 SPG, his SV% is an okay .903, his team takes a ton of penalties and has a poor PK, and his GAA is 2.23
Greg Goalie doesn’t face a lot of effective power plays, but allows roughly 3 goals per game. Nick Netminder and his PK struggles when down a man, but at EV he doesn’t face that many shots, and lets in roughly 2 goals per game.
Perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, something kicks in when Nick lets in 2 goals that results in him playing better so as to avoid letting in the 3rd goal and keep his team in the game. Perhaps, Greg KNOWS that he’s always gonna face a shitload of shots every game and after letting in 2, doesn’t have the confidence that he can keep the score at 2 cuz he knows the defense doesn’t have his back.
Maybe there’s a better stat that can measure a goalie’s ability to keep his team in the game, but does this not provide a context for using the GAA stat?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Apr 20, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but everyone buckles down
Instead of two different netminders, it might help just to compare one guy to himself. Half the time, this goalie gives up that third goal. It would be silly to think that he only buckled down half the time, and the other half he didn’t really care if the third goal went in…
Though anecdotal evidence isn’t as rigorous, you can have it – I have NEVER been happy to see a puck in my net. It doesn’t matter if I’m up three or down three. I don’t want to let a team back into the game, and I don’t want to let a team run away with it. I don’t want to blow close games or let close games get blown open. I am NEVER not trying hard. There’s just no context where it doesn’t really matter, unless it’s with a few seconds left and the game is already won or lost… and in those situations, everyone usually just stops and lets it run out.
And as you move up the food chain, I’m sure they have fewer lapses. The skill level is such that almost all your mistakes as a goalie wind up in your net… if a goalie was inattentive it could easily be 6-0 in the first period. He’d never get a chance to buckle down because he’d be waived.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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10-4, a bit down I compared Luongo's stats from Cats to Nucks
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
lol
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
isn’t there a context for GAA that makes it a useful stat? - NO
First of all, bad power play/penalty killing luck is adjusted for by using EVEN STRENGTH SAVE PERCENTAGE. Once again, not rocket science.
Also, just like in baseball with pitchers, there’s no evidence (by which I mean there’s been people who looked for evidence and it simply was NOT THERE) that there is any skill by which some goalies are able to hunker down and stop goals after he’s given up X goals. There is no clutch factor or whatever you want to call it here.
GAA is bad. Don’t use it.
GAA vs GA
These two stats are like apples and oranges,[ both fruits, but otherwise very different ]
GAA has a definite calculus that determines the number. GA is more complicated because it is a measure of a team’s defensive performance. It obviously is a product of the play of the forwards, defensemen and of course the final stopper the Goalie. The Isles missed the play-offs because even their strong goal producing season could not overcome the too many goals they surrendered. Therefore logic would dictate that the moves they make in the off season must be directed in large part in cutting down th GA, if they are to make the play-offs. We can argue on how to get there but one important element is better performance in goal.
Not in how this post is using them.
When you use GA to talk about a goalie, you’re doing the same thing as GAA. When you use it to talk about a team overall (D and Goaltending), it’s fine. This is talking about DiPietro, soooo not so much.
Well iz a good thang it aint rockit siiunsse...
cuz I dunno mucha bowt rockits.
I actually looked into Luongo’s stats: his last 4 years with Florida: he faced on avg 34 shots a game, and his SV% avg’d out to .920; in his 5 Canuck seasons he faced on avg 29 shots a game, and again his SV% avg’d out to .920. GAA was the major difference, so…
clearly he lost his clutch play
So, yeah I guess GAA doesn’t show crap in his case. Oh well, onto rocket science…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I agree it's a bad stat, I was just laughing because there is always something that drives you bonkers.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
Only a few things hockey wise.
A major pet peeve, if you haven’t noticed, is when people insist on using a statistic despite there being a MAINSTREAM statistic that is clearly superior. I understand why people don’t use corsi. But Save % is mainstream and there’ s no excuse for using another statistic which tells you less good info and doesn’t bring anything else to the table.
(In baseball, this is the same as Pitcher Wins vs. ERA.)
Not an advanced stat argument – just freaking common sense.
lol, apparently not common sense to as many people as you'd think.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
YES YOU CAN USE IT
I am using it as a comparison to other goalies on the Islanders during the same time period:
Pre Dec 16
Dipi 3.81 GAA
Roloson 2.64 GAA
From Dec 16 on
Dipi 3.06
Montoya 2.39
Poulin 2.44
GAA average for Poulin and Montoya are too close in stats to mean too much. but comparing DiPi to them it is a big enough of a differance. Same thing comparing DiPi to Roloson at the beginning of the season. Again it is night and day. By using those comparisons GAA is very fare stat to use. Also I am showing the cut off point in the season where the Islanders themselves played like night and day. Which really shows how goood Roloson was.
digging a little deeper
Pre 12/16
RDP – .876 sv%; 30.7 sh/60
Roli – .906 sv%; 28.5 sh/60
Roli did play better, but he also faced a lighter workload. I also note that his sv% has gone DOWN since joining Tampa, but somehow he has 4 shutouts and a lower GAA with the Lightning than he did on the Island. The GAA by itself doesn’t tell you much.
12/16 to end
RDP – .897; 29.8 sh/60
Montoya – .921; 30.4 sh/60
Poulin – .924; 32.0 sh/60
Roli (with NYI) – .936; 39.2 sh/60 (only five games, but WOW)
All of this of course is super-small sample sizes, and the sv% is overall, not just even-strength. Still, I think we see that Rick improved a lot. He also faced the fewest shots of the goalies. Part of this is in the save% – if you stop a lot of shots you tend to see more of them – but in general the Isles trailed a lot of those games, and so the other team sat back and the Islanders pressed the play.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
The Whole Team Was Night and Day From Dec 16 ON
Of course DiPi looked better later on in the season THE WHOLE LOOKED BETTER. That is why I broke it down the way I did. No matter how you look at it DiPi is the worst by far of the 4 goalies we are comparing. It is not even close.
Well, yes
I’m not saying .897 is anything to throw a party over. But he WAS better. He didn’t stay terrible, he made progress. He had a stretch where he was comparable to the other guys: 11-21 – 1/20, he posted a .917 sv% over eleven games. It’s a small sample size, but no smaller than any of the others we’re talking about. It does suggest that the guy is capable of playing well enough to contribute to the team’s success.
I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the team carried Rick after 12/16. It’s just as easy to say that the whole team turned it around, including Rick. The goalies definitely played better after 12/16 than they did before, same as the offense.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Apr 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hooray, he got his SV% from "OMG MY EYES" to "Horrible"
by garik16 on Apr 21, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
More like “AAAAH MY EYES” to “Aaaahhhh, that’s better” and back to “AAAAAH MY EYES”. He had a good stretch in between two train wrecks.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Apr 21, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Save %
Pre Dec 16
Dipi .875
Roloson .916
From Dec 16 on
DiPi .897
Montoya .921
Poulin .924
Again night and day. So no matter ho you slice it his stats were not only bad compared to the rest of the league his stats were bad compared to his own teamates. DiPi’s comment “What Competion” maybe he was saying he is no competion to Montoya or Poulin, because no matter what stat you use he was not on the same ice as anybody else.

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