Kirill Kabanov Update
by Steckel Me Elmo on Apr 14, 2011 12:44 AM EDT
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PrintI am a Caps fan currently living in Lewiston, Maine, so I go to a pretty decent amount of MAINEiacs games, albeit not as many as I'd like to. I also am originally from Long Island, so I have a certain interest in the Islanders and want to see them do well and stay there. I wish them the best of luck 78 games a year.
I thought I could give a small update on Kabanov from what I've seen the times that I've gone to MAINEiacs games this year. Currently he has a stat line of 4-7-11 in 9 GP in the QMJHL playoffs (rocking a +4, some sweet tats, and a crazy hairdo along with the rest of the MAINEiacs as well). [That previous sentence is about as much stats as I can provide, I don't know any place that keeps more advanced stats for junior leagues.] He may not have the highest point total on the team, but when I've gone to see them, he has routinely been the best offensive player for the team. He's on the MAINEiacs top line with Morin and Brodeur, usually, and start most periods (with Carrier and Finn on D). He also plays the first PP unit, sometimes on the wing and sometimes on the point, but he has no problem sliding between the two positions and creating opportunities on the power play. Watching him, you can see that he has great offensive talents and instincts, which are the main reason he was drafted of course, but he doesn't look to be a defensive sink hole (although one has to keep in mind the league he's in and the competition he's against).
An interesting note for their power plays - sometimes they'll have Kabanov line up at the point, and Carrier (their #1 PPQB D) line up at the inside wing, and try to win the puck back clean for a one timer from Kabanov. If they can't run that play smoothly, they immediately have Kabanov go to the half wall, and Carrier slide back up to the D spot.
Something that he (and every other 18/19 year old) has to work on is his size and how he handles physical play. His issue isn't that he shies away from physical play; from what I've seen he's perfectly willing to go into the corners, or take the puck to the front of the net, and bring the play to the difficult areas. But he's very wiry and needs to put more weight on his frame so he can better handle that play over a longer period and against larger people. Luckily that's something that's pretty easily fixed for an 18 year old.
From what I've seen, the Islanders got some real good value in Kabanov. Where he was taken it's low risk, high reward, and judging from how he handles competition in the Q, he probably should have gone higher than he did. As an example, I saw him undress Gormley (13th overall, 2010, Phoenix) a few times in the series against Moncton. In the last two games against Montreal (the #2 seed; Lewiston is the # 8 seed) Kabanov is 2-2-4 +3 (2-1 and 4-1 Lewiston wins).
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Thanks for info.
Seems like KK has stepped up his game during the last couple of months at Macs. Hope he really continues to develop. I badly want this guy to play with Tavares and Nino in a couple of years.
He’s supposed to have a big shot so not very surprised to hear that he sometimes plays the point.
One more year in the Q, adding some bulk and he’s on his way to Isles/BPT.
Great post by the way and good luck with the Stanley Cup.
great update
Nice to know how they’re using him. That bit about setting him up for the one-timer off the draw is pretty good indication of talent in that they’re finding creative ways to use his talent.
Also you make him sound very promising so that helps too.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Kabanov seems pretty motivated to not only be a better team player but a better person, as well.
He is doing better playwise, gaining humanitarian recognition, I am very happy for him. Its nice to get updates like this.
I am so glad that trade took place! :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 14, 2011 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is why this LHH site is so cool!
You get information out of the blue about our prospects at any time. Where else can you say that? Thanks much for the KK update Steckel Me Elmo, enjoy the playoffs.
We are all Islanders, even if we are in Jersey!
3 assists but no goals?
Bust. Snow doesn’t know what’s doing.
by Les Beaver on Apr 14, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent, thanks for sharing this
Good to hear.
Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.
Curious
Ever been to a night that Kabanov has one of his infamous off games?
"had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman" Skeeterman
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I’ve never seen one of the meltdowns, and I hope to not see one at this time of year.
I have planned my grand attacks; I will stand behind their backs. With my brand new battle-axe, they will taste my wrath. They will hear me say as the pavement whirls, "I hate California girls."
by Steckel Me Elmo on Apr 14, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info...
…love your screenname!
I may have said this before… but I’d much rather use KK as a chip to get a Shea Weber type. I like the way our top six are shaping up organizationally and I’m not seeing too much from Kabanov or Petrov… they are looking more like a skinny Kvasha and a disinterested Kozlov every day.
We’ll know more and I’ll hopefully be proven wrong next year at this time. I’m still on the Lee, Ullstrom and Rakhshani hype-wagons…. and the schedule doesn’t have any stops in Moscow…. that station closed when they found out that Kvasha was a suicide bomber.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Errrr, wow. Seriously?
Ignoring your “All Russians are the same schpiel,” there’s a reason Lee, Ullstrom, and Rakhshani DONT HAVE HYPE. I hope the best for them, but seriously, if you’re hyping them but would like to trade Kabanov, you’re just being enormously silly.
Kabanov was considered a top 10 prospect last year for a reason.
by garik16 on Apr 14, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
top 10 "Islander" prospect?
Okay, I’ll buy that. But I’ve seen Nino play and he dominates at his level…. EVERY GAME. That will be good enough to get him a third line spot next year and we work from there. I’ve seen enough of Rhett to think that he will be a damn good two way NHL hockey player… Ullstrom is doing it against men. When I said that Lee pr*j*cts to Comeau like production AP called it an insult… That must mean he’s 2 years away from scoring 30 goals annually in the NHL.
Ignoring your "All Russians are the same schpiel,"
I really am not anti-russian… just going by our history… and I do have a little hope that Klementyev might show something next year if we get to 600man games lost again. I think if Petrov ever shows up and can play at a high level in the AHL I could get behind him as well… but Kabby doesn’t do it for me… too flakey(inconsistent). The guy was tossed from a leadership role on his WJC team becasue he couldn’t show any maturity on an international stage. Then he gets a chance to show something with the Isles that might have gotten him an audition on a talent starved team, and he can’t even show up on time. Flynn gave him another chance at Moncton and he f***ed that up… just like there is a reason that Lee and the others aren’t getting all that much hype, there’s a reason he was passed over 64 times.
Who knows where any of these kids will be in three or four years… but it’s my OPINION that Kabanov won’t fit into the team dynamic. I like this whole fred flintstone lunch pail thing the team has going. If Kabby re-invents himself as that kind of player with mad skills that will be AWESOME… but I’m not holding my breath.
And just to show YOU’RE SERIOUS… would you really cry if tomorrow morning you read that we took on Weber’s potential $7M salary cap hit by giving swapping #1’s, and giving up CDH and Kiril Kabanov?
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Kabanov was a top 10 prospect OVERALL through February of last year
When some scouts completely got obsessed with the attitude issue, despite a lot of that being very overblown. See Corey Pronman’s take on the issue. Also, he’s done fine at Lewisson and is doing great in the playoffs. Really, because he didn’t get along with one coach does not mean he’s a bad prospect.
Moreover, Rhett has shown nothing to show he’ll be a “damn good” 2-way NHL hockey player – putting up good numbers in the AHL at age 23 (5 years older than Kabanov) does not indicate one is going to be a damn good player. Ullstrom is performing at an okay level….against AHLers and of course he’s over 3 years older than Kabanov. He’s not lighting up the AHL either.
Neither of those two are considered great prospects, or even good ones, for a reason: they haven’t put up numbers at any point really that are impressive for their age and league (though by one measure two years ago, Ullstrom looked to potentially be a steal, with the caution then being he was overage for his league. But that metric no longer applies) You’re really overvaluing Bridgeport numbers here.
I honestly am not good at deciphering how to value college players, so I’m going to stay out of this on Lee only to point out once again that despite the strides, you still probably (I could be wrong here, to be honest) won’t see him on top 50 lists, and it’s not because of where he was drafted…..Travis Hamonic and Matt Donovan have been on such lists, for example, despite not being first round picks.
The Weber idea is fun but stilly, as it wouldn’t occur. In reality, you’d do it I think, Weber seems to be a pretty good D man despite facing top competition, if you’re a team where money is no object. But money IS an object, so the Isles wouldn’t do such a deal and would take the bet that their players would end up being of higher value. And the odds of that aren’t bad…between the #5 pick, De Haan (a top 20 prospect), and Kabanov.
Sidenote, why do you randomly use astericks in certain words (is it always Projects? Can’t recall).
Sidenote 2, I’m not AP77. I don’t have to own up to his silly biases against certain players.
And
deHaan has dropped out of the HF top 50…that sucks or us and his trade value. KK isn’t up there either. The only 2 we have there are Niño at #7 and Hamonic at (#12-15 somewhere I think)…and Hamonic has probably arrived for good and will be pulled off the list.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 14, 2011 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't particularly give much weight to HF myself - results seem quite non-Isle friendly to an extreme at times
But the different hockey prospect rating services aren’t as clearly delineated as MLB’s, so perhaps the people I read are less accurate.
by garik16 on Apr 14, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem to me is
There really seems to be little follow up (besides HF) after the draft…or at least, I can’t find much. Where do you look? Just news clippings?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 14, 2011 5:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
HF
many writers for HF never actually see the prospects they rate. Don’t get me wrong there are good writers for the site, but they typically are the ranging reporter types who do more CHL prospect interviews, etc, or are editors. While it has been many years since I used to write for HF, I find that the writers’ talents range from outstanding to hack, with everyone in between.
by Jones79 on Apr 15, 2011 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't understand
the consistent sentiment almost across the board to trade deHaan. How many puck moving defensemen did we dress this season? I’d argue none after Wisniewski left town, which was why we so often had 5 forwards on the PP.
Given that we saw almost all BP defensemen at some point this year, to me that means outside of Streit we have zero puck moving defensemen at the NHL or AHL level.
So here’s a guy who clearly at minimum can move the puck. Why on earth would we want to trade him? Especially when there is no guarantee that Streit will be here past the end of his contract (and in fact I’d argue probably won’t be if he has another couple seasons like 09-10 as he’ll sign for far more than the Isles will be willing to spend).
This really confuses me.
by afrosupreme on Apr 16, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone should read the fanshotted article on him
His coach raves about him as a leader, difference maker, and he’s up to 190 now. He looks vastly different from the prepubescent boy we all saw in camp over the past few years. He may be ready real soon.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the heads up
Great article. Guy seems like just the kind of player we need.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they sent him to Bport to start the season, butI have a feeling one of the vets will be moved/waived if deHaan tears it up in camp or at the AHL level.
Once again I'm just silly....
PR*J*CT**N: Kabanov was a top 10 prospect OVERALL through February of last year
REALITY: 65th pick oerall.
You deal with numbers and projections… I deal with REALITY.
CB dug into his rolodex and spun it with something like, “he’s a good kid with an over-demanding father”, and then they couldn’t get him out of uniondale fast enough when he pissed Gordon off.
Sure, he’s a kid… but the other kids are busting their asses to live the dream… When he comes back next year (really don’t even want to see him in camp) but next year in Lewiston and throws the team on his back I’ll be the biggest Kabanov fan on this site. Until then he’s a spoiled brat with more talent than he knows what to do with.
…and very tradeable.
I guess an AHL all-star as a rookie doesn’t quite match up to a kid whose lighting up the Q’s playoffs. Rhett didn’t do shit but captain his team at Denver… one shows leadership, the other one is two days out of diapers. Rhett played a big role on his WJC team, Kabanov? “putting up good numbers” anywhere isn’t what i base my assumptions on… I go by what I see…not by numbers that other people count. Rhett’s a scrapper, he skates out every shift… and he has never been a “maturity” issue. Don’t belittle one, to try to make a point about the other.
I’ll bet right now that Rhett has a longer and more productive ISLANDER career than Kirill.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
I concur
JP – All I know about KK is his stats … and that he’s praised by scouts by his raw talent … but I’ve also heard lots of bad negative feedback regarding his work habits and maturity. I’m not going to slay the kid … but I’m also not going to wait intensely for his arrival on Long Island. I just hope he gets his crap together and becomes a real professional.
by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on Apr 14, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Why Would Anyone Even Think of Trading Kabanov?
You seem to REALLY dislike this kid. But he’s a first round talent who slipped only because he’s a bit flaky. You can’t teach his kind of talent. From the Lewiston Sun Journal on last night’s game:
The night belonged to the Maineiacs’ Russian playmaker, who turned into a sniper Wednesday.
“He was out of his league,” [Lewiston Coach J.F.] Houle said. “He could have had five goals. He was a difference out there, very creative. He shot a lot more tonight, and he’s a good player when he plays like that.”
You’ll recall that Mike McEwen was pretty flaky and that didn’t stop Bill Torrey from adding him during the Cup run.
As far as Rhett goes, I’m eager to see him come up, but there’s no comparison at all between him and Kabanov skill-wise. And that’s no knock on Rhett.
I agree
He has “top 10 talent” and the scouts would not have said that if they did. It is not as if he suddenly lost the skill or the potential. The kid just needed a kick in the ass, he is an 18 year old russian playing in Canada. He dropped to the third round, he was disciplined at camp, he was traded by his junior team, and it looks like for the second part of his season he is coming around. Putting points and controlling games in the playoffs.
Cannot compare Rhett. American born hockey player who went to college for 4 years and is 4 years older than Kabanov. Of course he will be more mature, not to mention his given leadership qualities. I am not looking for Kabanov to be a leader, I am looking for him to become a sniper and a threat.
He needs to finish this post season strong, bulk up over the summer, come to rookie camp hard and willing, and then from their evaluate if he returns to juniors or moves to the ahl. I have no idea what is going on with Petrov, but perhaps he comes over and the two play on the same line at BPT. Yeah, an always sunny prediction or wish.
Silly Wabbit
You seem to REALLY dislike this kid.
Not true… but he’s going to have to overperform now because he has shown too much flake. There are twenty kids in the system that do nothing but work and listen. You can’t have the guy whose been acting like a first grader since he was really a first grader suddenly jump ahead of all of them because he’s having a nice couple of weeks.
Like I said, give the Maniacs a full year of Special K and then show in your THIRD camp (because this one will be about taking shit from coaches and players, AND DEALING WITH IT) you are ready to do what you are told and I think the Isles will be overjoyed that they had three first rounders last year.
I’m not going to bet the farm on it, but being that it doesn’t cost ME anything I’m rooting for it. I just feel that while his value is back up maybe the Isles can fill one of the REAL needs they have.
Snow kind of comes across as wanting a no nonesense kind of team. Schremp is gone, and it looks like Konopka might be wearing a different uni as well next year. As far as McEwen being “flakey”, I don’t remember that I do rememebr him already having productive NHL years with the Rangers and Rockies before the Isles added him.
And we can also thank Mike for another prospect, who may be an Islander faster and longer…. Matt Donovan… oddly enough Rhett’s teammate at Denver.
As far as Rhett goes, I understand that they are two totally different type of player. Kirill may be way ahead of him talent wise, but there is something else that makes me root for a kid like Rhett. Rhett seems to be the type of player that gives his all whenever he jumps over the boards. I like what that says about my team. That’s the kind of team I want on the ice every night… no matter what kind of a night you had last night (game wise or personally) you are going to show up at 5:00 and do everything you can to win a hockey game until the you are in street clothes. And when you are in street clothes you are going to act professionally.
There’s no doubt that Kirill has that potential, but the reality of the matter is, he has some catching up to do. It looks like he is on his way though, and that’s great news for the Isles.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
The paradox about this is
that while Kirill Kabanov remains a flaky “project”, he will have little to no trade value. As he develops into something truly special (and I believe he will, as soon as he grows up he matures), he will be far too valuable for us to give up. As it is, he is what he is, an enigmatic head case project with mad game skillz and absolutely tremendous upside with zero cost/risk associated. Kind of like taking a shot at the trifecta with a 200-1 payoff. Or taking Michael Grabner off the WW.
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 15, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with that...
I’d liken it more to having a pick 6 ticket where you’ve won the first four races with long-shots, and you have the favorite in the last two races. That ticket has absolutely no REAL value now, but it does have a tremendous amount of potential value if the last two, or even one wins(there is a 5/6 payout if nobody gets all 6).
So what I’m suggesting is that there is THE OPTION of finding somebody that is willing to give you REAL VALUE for this potential. These deals have to be made based on your own (The Islanders’) assessments of what kind of potential Kirill has, and what kind of deals are out there.
If you can get a Weber because they can’t afford to pay him, and leveraged on the fact that they think Kabanov IS A GUARENTEED 100PT player.
The downside is that you keep the ticket and your two horses lose…. the islanders have done a good job in that regard because they only spent $10 on the ticket. No biggie. The upside is both horses win and you get a new Lexus for a $10 investment… but you still have to pay taxes on it.
I don’t think the Isles lose in any of these situatons… they’ve operated with low risk decisions so far.
I’m just okay with cashing in the ticket now if we can get something that puts us a step closer next year. I think not even looking at that option is just as silly as not looking at his TOP END potential. I don’t think I’ve ignored either, nor have i called either “silly”…
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Stop using straw men.
No one thinks Kabanov is a 100 point player. No one thinks TAVARES is a 100 pont player. Use legit examples please.
you're right...
did I upset your abacus? Sometimes my mental time machine is in a place where defensemen were capable of 100 pt season… before the NHL changed to create more offense.
But if you were the recieving GM you’d have to think that he would be a consistent 60+ point guy for a long time, right?
And I’d say that tavares could be a ~100 pt guy (95-105) on a team that generates 5-on-5 offense with a solid supporting cast and the PP minutes he’s getting as a 20-year old. I don’t expect that for a few years, but I am hoping for it when he hits 24, and those things should be expected from the Isles.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
THIS is wrong:
Not true… but he’s going to have to overperform now because he has shown too much flake. There are twenty kids in the system that do nothing but work and listen. You can’t have the guy whose been acting like a first grader since he was really a first grader suddenly jump ahead of all of them because he’s having a nice couple of weeks.
Yes, chemistry is important in hockey. That said, a player who has talent (and Kabanov is recognized to have top 10 talent) is worth far more than a cooperative player who has very little. You are overrating chemistry to the point of sheer lunacy.
Michael Grabner was said to be lazy in pre-season! Lazy, look at that guy, can’t even bother to take training camp seriously! Surely we wouldn’t want him! Oh wait….
The guys who have failed on the Island have failed due to a lack of talent. That’s the truth. Not because they have bad attitudes.
by garik16 on Apr 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's funny...
how you use “rookies who aren’t young” to dispute one of my (and Keith’s) posts, and then Grabner to dispute another.
I am anti-russian, Flynn has a bias….
Why don’t you just put up a “I know you are, but what am I” auto-post.
I wonder if I put up a “I have a Kirill boner” post if you would have flamed it with a “small sample” rant.
I’m done with this.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Errr not quite the same thing.
The equivalent is me saying I think Grabner will have a better career than Skinner because he had a better rookie season. That’s a false equivalency – we need to take in context the big age difference.
Similarly, you’re way hype about “rookies” in the AHL becoming good in the NHL. Once again, you need to take into account the issue of AGE – Rhakshani is OLD for a prospect. The fact that he’s a rookie obscures things.
You are ignoring context and just being biassed and ridiculous. It’s just plain stupid. Cut it out.
Rhett vs Kabanov
I don’t get it. Some perverted fanboyism I think.
Don’t we want BOTH of them to be good? How can you even compare them? They are completely different and at different points in their careers.
No one knows what happened to Kabanov or how he really is. The only thing I’ve never seen disputed is that he’s talented. And has talent beyond where the Isles drafted him. And lately he’s been showing that talent on the ice. Why not give him a year and see what happens in juniors?
Then on Rhett, I know very little about him, I’ll be honest, but he was an AHL all-star, played a big role on a good college team. No reason not to be hopeful for him either. The scouts buzz is lacking for sure, but they’re not always right.
The odds of either becoming a superstar are slim. I don’t think the Isles would trade for Weber b/c of the money. For $7M they could sign 4-6 players. Plus Tavares will be on the last year of his ELC, w/ MacDonald and Hamonic and Grabner and KO, and other young guys coming due in the next 1-3 years. They’ll need money to hold onto talent.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
What I was waiting for...
It’s just plain stupid
I just turned the garik mute on… go back to measuring how far slider’s drop and getting a boner from a well honed on base percentage against lefties in the rain on days after a meteoric anomaly.
For anybody else reading htis who might not feel like calling me “stupid” today… look at where Rhett was when he was 19.. and what he did with his level of talent at that age. Then look at how today’s subject acted and was on a course wasting that talent.
I want them BOTH to succeed. But if I’m a coach the kid working his ass off is getting more ice time. If I’m a GM I’m making the bigger investment in the kid who acts like HE CARES about making something of himself, and fitting in to the team dynamic.
This wasn’t about Kirill v Rhett, it was about showing how the two behave and how they are rewarded/penalized. Rhett just turned 23, and next year will most likely be his rookie NHL season (same as Grabner).
Kabanov might take that step at 21. And if he keeps on the track that he is currently on he can be a HUGE ASSET to the Islanders. But when Rhett was 17-19 he didn’t waste his talents by being a jackass. That doesn’t mean we have to condemn Kirill forever, but that’s why Nino (same top 10 of the same draft class) will be IN THE NHL next year(IMHO), and Kirill will be trying to dominate the Q for a full year.
Even Tony Dehart (same draft year, lower expectations) will be working on his ELC next year in BPT.
If the Isles chose to extend an ELC contract to Kirill based on his few months of maturity and few weeks of dominant productivity I will stand corrected. But that’s really all your flaming is about… me having an opinion on whether Kirill is ready for BPT.
Hopefully next time you want to call me stupid I can try to prove it beyond any doubt.
Have a nice day.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
There are twenty kids in the system that do nothing but work and listen.
You’ve been watching sports long enough to know that this doesn’t, and honestly shouldn’t, mean crap when it comes to putting a team together. At a certain point, especially at an elite level, talent trumps everything else, and that is, as you like to say, REALITY.
by afrosupreme on Apr 16, 2011 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This
I don’t pay for NHL center ice for the interviews between periods. Talent, not personality, wins games.
I like Rhett.......
He has shown well in the AHL, and his short up “for a cup of coffee” stint with the big club proved nothing either way. My concern is his size with a size challenged team. Is he another St. Louie, or Gionta, or Parise , Or Cammelleri? maybe – but thats a long shot.
My biases are not silly
They are based on “watching TEH game” and going with my gut, which are better ways to evaluate hockey players than numbers, computers, mom’s basement, and so on.
It’s not my fault BC sucks but the numbers say he scored 24 goals this season. I blame the data.
I wouldn't talk negatively about Lee, not saying you are.
But Lee has thrown up a near exact statistical rookie college season to Okposo. I’d put money on Lee being a solid middle 6 forward for the islanders in the future. He has ideal size, an ideal skillset, and he’s putting up the stats. That kid has a bright future.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
Still impressive, especially when you consider it's his rookie year and he's playing out of position.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I agree
Its very impressive. I mentioned the same thing a little while back and it surprised me when I looked at there numbers side by side. Still, every year in junior/college makes a big difference. What was so impressive about Tavares’ junior year was that he scored 40+ as a 14 year old and 70+ as a 15 year old. So numbers aren’t nearly as impressive if he was 16 and 17. Not trying to take anything away from Lee on this and as you point out being a freshman and putting up those numbers are impressive. I think his year in the USHL served him well
Agreed.
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I like the idea of that trade proposal
Then I wouldn’t care…but I still feel like “he’s just a kid”. He has grown exponentially this year in terms of being a teammate and a umm, human, an he is lighting it up for the Maineiacs in the playoffs. He had some visa and ice time problems early on in the season, but then really started contributing. I think next year, we will see something special out of KK.
I just hope he has enough drive to force himself to get bigger in the off-season. I think his injuries have limited that in the past.
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by Keith Quinn on Apr 14, 2011 5:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No one is trading a Shea Weber calibre player for a package of anything but elite prospects and picks. Nashville isn’t going trade Shea on the hope that Kabanov figures it out. For us though its too risky to start trading prospects.
I think it's should be time soon to trade process/expendable top 9 players for a missing piece.
PAP is expendable, Comeau possibly, Bailey if he doesn’t turn it around, and even some prospects. Maybe even DeHaan if it brings in a #1 d-man.
For Weber signed longterm(5yrs+), I’d package a 1st rounder, 2 2nds, De Haan, and Comeau/PAP. An nhl offersheet would give them around 3 1st rounders straight up for losing him, so this package should be worth it for them.
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Ooh Fah
It astonishes me that PAP gets so little respect around here. Is it because he’s not homegrown? Was a ranger? Why would you trade a 50 point producer who is cost controlled? And he was basically a rookie. You are going to overpay for someone who may not even put up that kind of production.
No, rebuilding teams don’t package first and second round picks plus to young cost controlled 20+ goal scorers and a blue-chip prospect for Shea Weber- that is absolutely ridiculous. That is Mike Milbury nonsense. Mark Streit is a cheaper option who brings what Shea Weber brings. We can’t afford to give up the 35-45 goals that Comeau and PAP will likely score (combined) next year. I’d rather find a good shutdown guy on the cheap than give up the farm for Shea Weber. We can find much cheaper options who will bring to us what Weber can bring and without trading are third and fourth best wingers in the process.
If we are in contention next year late in the season than I wouldn’t be against a trade. I wouldn’t be adverse to trading Comeau OR Parantau, especially if Rak and/or Nino are producing. I just think that we are not at the point where we should start trading away picks, prospects and young/cheap goal scorers.
PAP is a middle 6 PP specialist on any team in the nhl. Highly likely a 3rd line PP specialist. He is not a repeat 50pts player if he isn't playing along 2 30goal scorers, 1 of whom is a great playmaker.
I agree, my offer for Weber might be too much, but a proven, big, physical, 2-way, insane goal producer, year-in and out norris trophy candidate, #1 d-man of Weber’s caliber is a very-rare quality. Streit will need a replacement, very likely in 2yrs. Better safe then sorry.
I think you are overplaying Comeau and PAP’s goal production. Losing 35-45 goals would be false. They would be replaced by players that can score at minimum somewhat through FA or trade or in our system. Rakh has the skills to pot 15/yr in the nhl, easily capable of potting what PAP could(they have similar games). Martin could move up to the 3rd line and pot 10-15goals/yr with better linemates and more mintues, doesn’t replace comeau but does a good job. And Nino is coming this year. Sure, I believe we would lose a little goalscoring, but not close to the numbers you are throwing out. Especially when you consider Weber pots 16goals+/yr on a defense heavy team, playing defense lol.
I respect your opinion, but think you are overvaluing PAP + Comeau(a bit) and undervaluing Rakh’s and Martin’s, or even Kabanov’s potential in the system. (or if you wanna go deeper, Lee or Nelson’s potential, whom could be pulled from college early, if need be). Not to mention, undervaluing Weber’s overall abilities.
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The question remains...
…if Shea’s that awesome, why would Nashville want to deal him for anything less than a premium player and pick? The only way guys like that get moved is if you’re in cap hell, or if you don’t think you can re-sign them when their deal is up. In the second case, you risk losing the player yourself if he wants to move on.
Conclusion – it’s easier to sign a guy like that or draft and develop them yourself, than it is to be able to trade for them, especially if they’ve established themselves. And on top of this, we should remember that Nashville is a well-run team. David Poile knows what he’s doing, and he’s not about to sell Shea Weber for magic beans.
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I completely agree. Just saying that Weber would be worth it in the long run if we wanted to acquire him because of his age/high-end all around skills. But I also do believe that the draft or ufa is the optimal way to acquire one.
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You are overplaying your confidence in unproven prospects
Comeau and PAP have both scored 20 goals in the NHL. Rakshani and Nino are as of yet unproven assets. I think both are capable of being consistent 20 goal scorers but we can’t be sure. Not sure enough to give up 45 goals.
PAP benefitted from JT’s playmaking and Moulson goal scoring; but I believe JT and MM also benefitted from having PAP on there line. He can skate, he can be physical and hit and he has good stick skills. His passing is above average. He also has size (not tall but stocky like KO) I am not totally against trading PAP at some point and ultimatly I don’t think he will last on our top scoring line. Right now though is a good, cheap asset that can score and set up goals. I do agree that on most teams he wouldn’t likely see top six minutes but you absolutely have to respect what he has done this year. He exceeded the most optimistic of expectations. He’s a realiable, productive and cheap asset as a stopgag while we wait for prospects to come up.
If we could put a package together for Weber that included Comeau or PAP (sell high after good years) I might be a little more open to it and I do realize what having a norris calibre defenseman could do for us I just think the price would be too high for the deal you layed out
by MatthewM11 on Apr 21, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, it's mostly off expectations, but we aren't talking about trading top 6 players.
These are 3rd liners possibly playing the best hockey of their careers the last year. PAP is a 3rd line pp-specialist whom is noticably less effective at 5-on-5, and Comeau(less replacable) is a physical 2-way 3rd line goalscorer. These aren’t “high-end pieces”, but look really nice on paper, arguably worth a lot more on paper then they are in reality. PAP isn’t a 20goal scorer or 50pts player if he isn’t playing alongside 2 30goal guys/threats and a fantastic playmaker in JT, not to mention getting 1st unit PP minutes to boot. Comeau is more solid, but how reliable is he for putting up 25goals/yr? He is “really” streaky as we all know, and all it would take is 1 long bad stretch, and boom, he’s gone from a 25-20goal scorer, or worse. I like him, but reliability and Comeau don’t belong in the same sentence yet.
Some may say we shouldn’t make a move yet, I’d argue it’s just about time to make a big move for a great player that is hard(er) to get through free agency: Top 6 forwards(big/physical hopefully), #1 d-men(which will be a need sooner then later), or big “scary” physical top 4 shutdown d-men(think witt/volchenkov/regehr).
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I think they are more valuable to us than they would garner in a trade
Comeau has in two consecutive years averaged over 20 goals per 82 games while be an effective penalty killer and bringing a physical element to his game. And he did this without playing top-line minutes or getting favorable offensive assignments. And he is young. I think that is a pretty valuable commodity. He is and probably will forever remain streaky. He is replaceable but at this point I would be wary of trading him until we know for sure either or both Nino and Rakh are 20 goal scorers.
You are probably right about PAP not being a 50 point scorer without JT but that would make him a less valuable trade commodity and the more reason to keep him. Teams won’t be interested in him if they don’t think he can score.
A physical top 4 shutdown guy would be great and I would be for trading either Comeau or PAP for one. I don’t think we need a top 6 forward at all though. Scoring wasn’t our problem this year and we had three lines with 20 goal scorers and essentially three 30 goal scorers. We also have at least two NHL ready forwards who project as top six forwards in Rakh and Nino. We finished in the top half of teams in the league for goals scored.
If it was about giving up a forward to trade I would honestly thing KO would be our best option because he would have a lot more value than Comeau or PAP yet I’m not convinced he brings us that much more than they do. His high draft pedigree and age would be worth more on the trade market. I like KO and am not advocating for trading him but I don’t see him as completely unreplaceable.
My biggest point of dispute in your trade scenario were the picks and Calvin De Haan, but if you took them out Comeau and PAP wouldn’t be worth a whole lot in a trade
I somewhat agree
I don’t think,nor does anyone else project Rakh as a top six forward in the NHL.
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In that case
Rakh’s only real shot of becoming an NHLer is as a top six forward, he doesn’t fit the profile of a bottom sixer at this point in his game. He would have to seriously commit himself to his defensive game to be used as a checking forward and doesn’t have ideal size for that role either. That is the problem with smaller offensive forwards; their prospects in the NHL are limited compared to bigger two way forwards. If you have a prospect who is 6-2 and has a strong defensive game he has a better chance of making the NHL even if his scoring doesn’t translate at higher levels of play
You may be right on them being more important to us then others, but on paper I'd argue otherwise. No one really knows though.
Top 6 forward I added only to increase our depth, it’s the luxury of moving a top 6er or bringing in a top 6er to play on the 3rd line, or to increase our size/physicality in the top 6/top 9(which is obviously lacking).
I personally wouldn’t touch KO yet. He loves LI, plays hard, and doesn’t complain. Not to mention, I think his 2-way abilities and passing abilities are underrated around the league(hopefully one day his goalscoring abilities too when he becomes a better finisher).
That’s fine if you don’t want to trade DeHaan. Personally I would because he was an overdraft and I’m not very high on him. I think he’ll be a good top 4 d-man if he can stay healthy, but not much more then a good top 4 guy imo.
And as bossy2219 said, not sure Rakh is a future top 6er. Undersized and fast 2-way playmaking 3rd liner, yes though.
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Thats the problem
If me or you can tell that Blake or PAP wouldn’t have the same success here than with other teams than GMs around the league can too.
I wouldn’t want to move KO either, just saying that he would be of more value on the open market,
I am not 100% sure about how I feel about DeHaan. The few times I’ve seen him play he didn’t blow me away but I know that the organization really liked him in the two training camps he attended, and now that he has added size he has addressed their biggest concern. You also have to like his numbers playing on bad Oshawa teams in the past including his plus/minus numbers. I’m not saying he will be a top pairing 60 point defenseman but if like you said he can be a top four guy who can QB the PP than I’ll be happy and those guys have value. I wouldn’t be against trading him at all but adding him plus first round picks is a high price IMO is all I was saying. If it was PAP OR comeau plus picks OR DeHaan (I know that wouldn’t net Weber but still could bring in a good defenseman) than I might be open to it.
On the issue of Rakh I think the problem is that he doesn’t profile as an ideal third line forward unless he seriously worked on defensive game in BP and that is what will limit his chances of making an impact in the NHL. He profiles as a top six forward because of his size and one-way game and unless he proves he can score consistently he won’t find a role in the NHL
forgot to add
To address your last question its not really about undervaluing Weber’s ability. I think he is a great defenseman who would like great in an Islander jersey. Likely one of the top five defenseman in league who could be good for a number of years. I just felt that what you proposed for the trade on our end was steep for anybody.
Agree 100% on Undervaluing PAP
For the life of me I can’t see why people are always down on PAP, and constantly want to bust him to the 3rd or 4th line or trade him.
He’s a right-handed shot who routinely set up Moulson and played well with Tavares too. He was signed to man the half-wall on the PP with Tavares and Moulson and he didn’t disappoint there. He’s also not afraid to go to the dirty areas despite not being the biggest guy, and seems durable. He also yaps a bit, and you need some guys like that. Tied for second on the team in scoring with 20-33-53.
Honestly, what more could the guy have possibly done?
Alright but
apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what has PAP ever done for us?
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by Dominik on Apr 21, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think PAP has performed very well for us, especially given what he cost
but it is a reailty that the arrival of el nino (and that will be the last time I call him that, I promise) will blow him off the first line. There’s no room for him with Grabs, KO and Frans, so he will have to play on the “third” line, with Bails and Comeau (unless Rahk or someone else sneaks in there). The truth is that PAP may well be trade bait next season. Not a complaint, merely the reality of a maturing franchise with some actual interchangeable parts.
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by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 22, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's my perspective.
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He has a right hand shot so I am not sure he is moving from the first line
I would rather see Nino on the first line but I don’t know that Cap will put three left handed shots on that line
I agree
Kabanov is maybe the most skilled prospect we have. His production hasn’t matched his skill yet but he is very young and has a whole lot of time to put it together. I am absolutely pulling for Kabanov and feel that if we trade him we could deeply regret it. This is a player who was seen as a better player at 16 years old then Ovechkin was at the same age. I think that off-ice distractions, trades and injuries have all limited his production and I predict a monster year from him this coming year if he stays in the QMJHL. Yeah, absolutely do not trade Kabanov.
Trouble is that you don’t know who is a Shea Weber until they pretty much are (think Keith the year before his Norris), and by that point the other team isn’t selling.
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by red army line on Apr 19, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
There are very very few shea weber's in this league. lol. Big, Physical, high goalscoring d-men, that are defensively responsible are very rare. I just dream of what his numbers would look like on a better offensive team. oooooooooo. lol
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yeah
I remember how awesome this guy was going to be. Weber’s got an established track record, of course, but it could just as easily have gone the other way.
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I agree, no prospect is 100% safe. But it's rare for a proven guy like Weber to drop off out of nowhere at his age. He is a phenomenal 2-way #1 d-man.
Weber’s complete 2-way package of “proven” dominant offensive skills and solid defensive skills is only similar to a few d-men in the whole league:
-Chara
-Lidstrom
-Pronger(not as offensively dominant now)
-Doughty(probably)
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Its not worth trading prospects for
It just reeks of Mike Milbury. Nothing against Shea Weber who is good player for sure. patience is key here.
by MatthewM11 on Apr 19, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we can't draft a #1 d-man, we don't have many option though for getting one.
And a lot of the recent past cup teams had solid/above-average #1 d-men:
Hawks-Keith
Pens-Gonchar
Wings-Lidstrom
Ducks-Pronger + Niedermayer
Canes-none
Lightning-Boyle
Devils-Niedermayer + Rafalski
Wings-Back to Lidstrom
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I think Garth realizes how hard it is to get a player like those
He must know the draft is the key. That being said, I expect him to trade up for Larsson. What do you think moving up from #5 to #3 would cost the Islanders?
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DeHaan? DeHaan and a 2nd? Comeau and a 2nd? Both 2nd's?
Not really sure, but I’m sure it won’t cost a ton. And it’s definitely worth it.
It’s like trading a prospect #1 d-man for a prospect 60pts top 6 center(at #5) and whatever else we package. It shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg imo.
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I posted here Florida’s trade history with draft picks. Following their template, I wanna either swap next year’s first rounders in 2012 for this year’s swap, or trade them Comeau, the #5, and a 2nd rounder for their #3 and their third rounder. I don’t wanna trade de Haan, I’d rather trade Comeau or another forward.
Lol, of course all this is assuming Larsson doesn’t go #1 or #2, and I’m starting to get worried that this may happen.
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DeHaan is probably too much. I replied about this in another thread. It really shouldn't be that costly.
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I’ve said before I’d take it another level and give them next year’s pick straight up in addition to this year’s if Larsson is still on the board.
by afrosupreme on Apr 20, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me that's a pretty high price to move up two picks
Unless you are talking about two seconds. Its hard to say its worth it considering really have we no idea who these draftees will really be as players, if they ever play at all. Its a big risk to give up a proven NHL scorer for a chance to take one 17 year old prospect versus another.
We don't KNOW...
But it is LIKELY Adam Larsson will play as a VERY GOOD NHL defenseman. It’s the potential beyond that that we REALLY have no inkling of how much of it he’ll fulfill.
Believe me, I’ve been struggling with this: how much better will Adam Larsson be than Dougie Hamilton? Is it worth a Blake Comeau? An Anders Lee? A pick swap in 2012? I’m really not sure.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Yeah, it's easily worth the risk of a 3rd liner or 2 2nd's or even arguably a future 1st rounder.
Projected Sizable Physical Great 2-way #1 d-men don’t come around much in drafts, it’s easily worth the risk. Think of how hard it is to acquire a #1 d-man through FA or Trade and you’d realize this slight cost for Larsson would be worth every penny.
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No Need to Trade for Larsson When You Can Probably Take Hamilton or Beaulieu
In fact, some people have Hamilton or Beaulieu rated higher than Larsson. Whether or not that’s true, there’s probably so little difference that it would be a major waste of assets to trade up.
Hamilton is a work in progress defensively and hasn't put up the offensive numbers for a #1 d-man.
Beaulieu is even more of a work in progress. Larsson is so high because he already has the overall skillset of a #1 d-man and is huge.
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only one defenseman gets spoken of possibly going first overall
and it aint hamilton or beaulieu.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
We already have one, Streit
Snow knows not to overpay for a name and his signing of Streit was a stroke of genius. Streit is a good defenseman. Granted you don’t know how he’ll return from the injury but both his scoring and defense puts him in a pretty exclusive realm. I don’t know that he is a whole lot worse than Weber. His plus minus and his ice-time on such bad teams in 08-09 and 09-10 are maybe whats most impressive.
But Streit will unquestionably need a replacement, he's 32 and signed for only 2 more yrs. Weber would be great, Larsson could be the best option due to cost and age.
Point is, Streit is gonna age and won’t be here forever, a lot of people think he’s gone to the highest bidder in 2yrs at UFA. I’d rather have a guy in place then scramble last second, and we easily have the cap room to fit a weber and streit for now if we wanted.
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Streit - pro and con
Con -
32 years old
Coming off major shoulder injury
Only two seasons of top play
Pro -
If Lidstrom and Selanne and Roli can play this well at 40, why not Mark Streit?
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I agree, but very few keep up their play at that age. And then there's the cost/injury-risk factor of paying a late 30's #1 d-man $6mil/yr+ at a high 2-way level.
What are the odds of Streit doing that though with age setting in(not even mileage)?
Some #1 d-man that declined a bit past 30-35yrs old:
Pronger not close to the same 15goal/65pts amazing +// threat he once was 5yrs ago. Still a 10/50pts player though, but declined.
-Niedermayer saw his tools decline last year and he decided to retire at 37(still decent, but not as great as he once was).
-Gonchar’s no longer a 20goal/70pts threat.
-Even Lidstrom’s not the 80pts(20goals) threat he used to be.
I’m just saying that most top d-men see their stats go down a few goals and 10pts after the age of ~35. Then there’s the injury risk of an older player too. I love streit, but I don’t know if I wanna live with 35-38yr old streit who is slower and only putting up likely ~7goals/40pts average over that span and making $6mil/yr. Unless he gives a noticable hometown discount, he’s just not gonna be worth the price imo.
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True
I’m just saying there is no need to give up such a high price (IMO) for Weber when we already have a good, 2-way defenseman capable of logging a lot of ice-time and running the powerplay. By the time Streit’s contract is up we could possibly have a replacement for him in either De Haan, Donovan or Kessel.
DeHaan would need to develop that shot/slapper a lot more to replace streit and prove himself 2-way(obviously).
And donovan and kessel are a noticably farther away. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Especially through the draft with some highend d-prospects(Larsson, Hedman, E.Johnson.). But it’s eventually going to be a necessity, and it’s always better to be safe then sorry.
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We also have
Hamonic who put up great offensive numbers for a rookie and has a hard shot and plays the point pretty well on the PP. MacDonald also put up good numbers and has a good slapper. I DVRed the World Junior championship game and was watching a bit of it the other day while getting ready for work. De Haan was used on the first PP unit for Canada and I thought he looked really good. Of any flaw in his game, work on the PP isn’t one of them. Don’t remember specifically his shot but I also read that it was a strength of his.
I like Hamonic's potential too, not sure he has the upside though, but damn can he fire that shot and make some nice passes.
Running a PP though, not sure he could do it like a streit. Nor make “tape to tape” outlet passes, which is expected from a #1 d-man now a days.
I’ve read dehaan has a good shot that he can get to the net, but I remember in some skills competition or scouting or something where his slapper was clocked at a miserable speed this past year/late last year(hi-70’s or low 80’s if I remember right) for a touted offensive d-man. And then there’s his ohl numbers, which are very disappointing in the goals category(and otherwise since his draft year) for an overaged d-man that runs the PP for his team. But I believe that overdrafting DeHaan at #12(whom was ranked 20th-26th overall by most boards) and throwing so many expectations on him by spot picking him over a couple other offensive d-men by Garth was imo wrong(which is still to be determined). I would have taken Kulikov or Moore over DeHaan, but that’s just me(Moore had great size, above average passing/shooting skills, and top skating ability. And Kulikov was bigger, similar great skater, had a top tier slapper, great passing skills, and just seemed safer to me with more offensive upside).
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Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
What about David Rundblad?
I don’t swear by hockeysfuture.com but they say “Possibly the best hockey player currently not playing in North America.” The guy was drafted 17th overall and is listed at 6’2" 189 lbs. This is his profile, and I believe he quarterbacked Skelleftea’s PP in the SEL this season (Adam Larsson’s team).
I’m in the process of evaluating Garth’s drafts of DEFENSEMEN from ‘07-’10, which I will try to post at some point, but as far as the 2009 draft goes, Garth moved up from #26 to #12 and picked de Haan over Rundblad, Moore, and Kulikov (and Clark Gillies-type Zack Kassian). I dunno how I feel about that, but hey what can you do…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Rundblad probably also, but I'm not the greatest at trying to grade swedish prospects playing in sweden.
And passing kassian who was ranked around that is a pisser too. All the tools and skills to be a solid middle 6 power forward(more of a playmaker), that fights and is feared by the league(that was one great thing I loved reading about him, he was argued by many the best, most feared, and toughest fighter in the ohl). I’m very interested to see how he transitions to the nhl because he has that rare package of great size, hockey skills, and amazing toughness(fighting and physicality).
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I loves me some Weber, but
I think we can’t pay that much for him.
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 22, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
We are in no position to trade prospects and it is shortsided
Mike Milbury would have loved a trade scenario involving a bunch of our blue-chips prospects for a someone like Shea Weber. I think this is shortsided. The second the team starts to do a little bit better everyone on here is coming up with trade scenarios involving a bunch of prospects for any given star player. I would rather wait for our prospects to devolop while finding good, cheap free agents in the meantime like Snow has done with Moulson and PAP who have outperformed many of the names I’ve read that fans on here have proposed we should trade for. Big name players are great but what sucks is the ridiculous salaries that come with their names. We are finally starting to replenish our prospect pool from the damage of the Milbury years lets not go down that road again. Please.
Also
The thing with these hypothetical trade scenarios involving a bunch of prospects for a star calibre player is that they almost always involve lower level prospects and people feel if you just pile on a lot of shitty prospects team will trade there star players. No amount of Figrens, Dibennedetto, De Harts etc will get a Shea Weber. The prospects they will want are the ones that we don’t want to give up. Its going to take multiple first round picks and/or blue chip prospects to get someone of Weber’s calibre.
excellent update
Thanks for the information, and good luck in the playoffs – especially against the Rags.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Err I think you're one game out of date:
From Corey Pronman:
“#Islanders Kabanov with 2 goals tonight, moves to 6 goals and 13 points in 10 playoff games.”
I’m happy.
makes him easier to trade!
:::ducking:::
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Yeah, you better duck.
;-)
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 15, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
We could always use more Russians here in DC.
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by red army line on Apr 19, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats Kirill...
Now ask the question… did he just figure IT out, or is he seeing that the Isles are giving out ELC’s like real estate agents give out calendars… and he wants himself one of those.
If I’m Snow I’m telling him to DOMINATE like that next year, all year… then we’ll talk. And while we’re watching we’ll be talking to teams that really like the monkey show… and have a legit all-star that wants his name on the stanley cup..that they can’t pay.
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You are really really cynical.
Kabanov over the last half of the season has been doing quite solid. Yeah, he took a bit to find his footing, as he you know got bounced around due to one team basically not wanting him due to a coach’s crappy bias.
Danny Flynn has a crappy bias...
due to one team basically not wanting him due to a coach’s crappy bias.
-Garik16
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
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I’m not sure exactly how the rules apply to Euros playing in the CHL, but for NAers in NA you need to sign an ELC within 2 years, for Euros in Europe it’s four.
I’m sure his contract will have plenty of performance bonuses.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 19, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Now ask the question… did he just figure IT out, or is he seeing that the Isles are giving out ELC’s like real estate agents give out calendars… and he wants himself one of those.<b/lockquote>
Does it matter?
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 22, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The boxscore on the QMJHL website (and the stats page) has him at 4-7-11 (Just checked again). Either way, he’s stepped up his game against Montreal this series.
I have planned my grand attacks; I will stand behind their backs. With my brand new battle-axe, they will taste my wrath. They will hear me say as the pavement whirls, "I hate California girls."
by Steckel Me Elmo on Apr 14, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
JP you are way way off here
Ullstrom? He’s shown nothing – wouldn’t shock me if he was out of the system next year altogether – have you seen him play?
Rakhshani?
overrated – not at all a given
DiBenedetto is a much better prospect
Kabanov? This is a kid – how will be as an adult? could he become another Alexei Kovalev or close to it? Here’s Kovalev’s history for reference – reminder, he was on the cup winning Smurfs team
Ullstrom
I guess if you want to call 41pts in 67 rookie games in your first time playing in North American rinks nothing, than yeah…and Rhakshani was on fire in the second half. All of those guys were playing with ECHL goaltending and defense because of the call-ups and injuries. BPT was an absolute shell of the team they were supposed to be, so to critique any of those rookies would be akin to being aggravated with Haley for not having 15 goals.
I’m not saying either will pan out as legit NHLers, but to minimize their play this year is a bit short sighted. Let’s see next year (as with the big club) when there is some consistency with the lineup. And DiBo, come on…I think “prospect” isn’t used so much to describe “guy who will earn some 4th line minutes at some point”. I can see all of these guys playing, but as far as impact goes, I would definitely put Ullstrom and Rahk ahead of DiBo at this point.
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by Keith Quinn on Apr 15, 2011 7:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess if you want to call 41pts in 67 rookie games in your first time playing in North American rinks nothing, than yeah…and Rhakshani was on fire in the second half. All of those guys were playing with ECHL goaltending and defense because of the call-ups and injuries. BPT was an absolute shell of the team they were supposed to be, so to critique any of those rookies would be akin to being aggravated with Haley for not having 15 goals.
The problem is AGE. Rhakshani was on fire…but is 23 (24?) already. At that age, if he’s a legit prospect you’d want him to be more than putting up good AHL numbers, you want domination. Ullstrom is younger, to be fair, and is a more legitimate prospect than Rhakshani…but he’s till not young.
Rhett turned 23 in March
But I think this is where you’re and Cary losing me. Here’s what I said.
Also, up until this year, Rhett played a max of 41 games in a season. He may become dominant, but who knows. Personally, I think Rhett will go the way of Jason Krog, Keith Aucoin and Jeff Tambellini…but there are seldom players who are “dominant” in the AHL, and those who are are usually the 3 I mentioned above, and Ben Walter. Nielsen wasn’t dominant, Tambellini was. Okposo wasn’t dominant either. Bailey was.
I mean, look at these numbers . None of them are exactly “dominant”, and Rhett is 19th while in many cases playing 10 less games. Most of the others are AHL lifers that are close to 30 years old. There are only two rookies on that list.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
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by Keith Quinn on Apr 15, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not denying Rhett's numbers
The problem is that 23 is the age when a guy should be in the NHL already if he’s going to make do. This isn’t always the case – Grabner broke out at 23, but of course Grabner was given a shot at 22 in Vancouver, and was a first round draft pick, so there was clear talent there.
Put it this way, depending upon whether a player is a random call up or a developing propect, BehindtheNet has computed two different ways of translating AHL results into NHL results- If they’re the latter, they retain roughly 2/3 of their value; if they’re the former they retain less than 1/2 (.45). Now for Rhakshani, neither is truely terrible (both would give him enough points to be a relevant NHLer, one would think) – but the latter particularly would make him a 3rd liner at best, and more likely a 4th liner. And given how the Isles have used him when they called him up, and his age, that number is more reasonable to use.
Ullstrom is different in that the translations from his time in Europe really liked him btw.
AHL results
What is the sample size used for that calculation? Does Rhett hit it? What is the operational definition of “prospect”? Was Lucic considered a prospect? He was a 2nd rounder.
How should prospect be defined? I mean I would assume everyone drafted has some level of potential that people see. Moulson reached his potential at 26, Montoya may too. I think the point is sometimes opportunity and organizational development.
If you remember, Rhett was called up, but suffered a concussion…we may have seen him play well. He certainly wasn’t a sore thumb out there. I think the problem with people understanding or believing in the metrics is this.
At times, it seems like (and not everyone) the metrician doesn’t use the same measurements or criteria across applications. Because the metrician is the beholder of the knowledge, he becomes the arbiter of what to use. For example in this piece, you are using age as opposed to sample size, opportunity and context.
The context in this case is that Rhett chose to finish college and therefore has not had opportunity to tear up the AHL. You can’t penalize him for that. As a matter of fact, if you looked at his numbers given an effective center, I’ll bet he was over a PPG this season (Bailey/Colliton). He was also injured for a portion, and was celeration in his production toward the end of the season.
That could be a fluke, or a contextual adjustment becoming fluent. Larger sample size will tell. He certainly has more potential right now than 90% of that roster.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
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by Keith Quinn on Apr 15, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree few players are dominant in AHL as rookies
A legit prospect does not have to dominate the AHL to be considered a legit prospect. Age is not a factor, experience level is. He had never played above NCAA hockey. A younger player with more experience at a higher level of play would have a better adjustment. Regardless though, plenty of good NHLers didn’t dominate the AHL, and actually scored more in the NHL then they did in the AHL. Let’s look at Eric Staal. He had experienced a full NHL season before, due to the lockout, he played a full AHL season. Staal averaged a point per game in the AHL. Only a slightly better PPG pace then Rakhshani, and this after a full year of NHL play. If Rakshani’s year wasn’t domination then Staal’s wasn’t either. He was younger than Rakhshani but clearly had more experience with higher level of competition. After his 77 point AHL campaign Staal put up 100 points in NHL. He went from 26 goals in the A to 45 in the NHL. That is one extreme example but for more mundane examples look at Blake Comeau (12-31-43 as a rookie in the AHL) Michael Grabner (22-22-44 as a rook) Ryan Kesler (11 points in first 33 games in AHL, first full season he had 58 points in 78 games) Those are just the players that came to mind that I remembered them scoring more in the NHL than they did as rookies in the AHL. So there is definatly a precident for it.
Regading Staal specifically, remember that lots of NHLers went to the AHL and significantly boosted its quality of play.
A legit prospect does not have to dominate the AHL to be considered a legit prospect. Age is not a factor, experience level is.
Players grow very, very fast from 18-24 or so. If the guy isn’t a scoring forward by 24, he likely won’t be that slick playmaker/goal scorer. He could still find a job as a grinder, two-way forward, or net crasher (like Mike Knuble, only found a real NHL job in early 30s), but few top-6 skill forwards are still developing their offensive game in their prime (23-26 or so). In my mind, from that age on, you’re getting better on defense, not offense. It’s like they say, “you can’t teach skill”
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by red army line on Apr 23, 2011 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point (regarding lockout)
I forgot to take that into consideration. And I agree that at a certain age most players are not going to get much better offensivly. But I don’t think this theory works againts Rakhshani. First off, I think a rookie is still a rookie regardless of age and when you are making the jump from the NCAA to the AHL I would have to assume their a big learning curve, whether you are 20 or 24. And Rakh’s stronger second half could point to him having to acclimate himself to the bigger and faster league. I also think think that all this aside he put up good offensive numbers by any standard, rookie or not. Averaging almost a PPG for a very bad team in the AHL is impressive.
Bottom line is that I think Rakh could go either way- evolving into a decent scoring winger in the NHL or spending most of career as a good AHL journeyman and really I’m not particulary invested in him and don’t care either way. I think that you and Garik make good points and could certainly be right. But I also think that Rakh has shown enough in his college career and one season in the AHL to remain somewhat optimistic about his prospects. Just my thoughts
Not buying that
Why belittle the accomplishments of two AHL rookies who led their team in the second half. I believe Ullstrom was also playing out of position. From what I gather he’s made himself (with the help of his coaches) into a pretty productive center… something he would have benefitted from having in place when he got there, instead of having to become one.
The same goes for Rhett. Instead of looking at their numbers, look at what they’ve done to make the players/team around them better.
I see some good things from those guys in the future… even it’s just leadership roles on the sound kittens.
So, yeah, you won’t see me saying those two have shown “nothing”.
…and if Kabanov becomes Kovalev…whoopee. I just hope he becomes a grown up.. and I think that is more likely. So we’re good.
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More on that…players typically hit offensive peaks a little before 25 years old, so right about where these players are at, and sustain for a few years. If these dudes want to make the NHL as an impact player it’ll be more for defense than offense.
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by red army line on Apr 19, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yes - took in 5-10 games this year
Ullstrom consistently did not stand out in any way – gave no impression that his game would translate to the much faster NHL
check Rakhshani’s stats when Bailey wasn’t at BPT (I think he got at least 20 points in a flurry with Josh around) – and he & Bailey were doing that against vastly inferior AHL talent
up in the NHL, neither Ullstrom nor Rakh would clearly fit in on any of the 4 lines – neither is much on D, nor do they have enough offense to be a Comeau type 3rd or 4th liner
Joensuu showed that his 2 way game can fit on a 3rd or 4th line well in the NHL – his prospects are stronger
if we are looking to trade deHaan (something we should perhaps consider) and someone wants Ullstrom or Rakhshani pacakaged in, we should do that in a heartbeat
FTR, to explain my views further.
I’m heavily skeptical of guys in the system who neutral observers don’t seem to consider as legit NHL prospects. Rhakshani counts. So does Matt Martin, of whom I’m still skeptical.
Scouts can be wrong, and gems can be found – I think AMac is a prime example – but in an area where the numbers are woefully incomplete, their opinion should have great weight.
To be fair
I was trying to figure out the other day what Matt Moulson and PA Paranteau had common. Garth Snow got good top six production from two players seen as depth signings for Bridgeport. Both were taken in the ninth round. Both were never seen as legit NHL prospects and both were really too old to be considered prospects at all when Garth had signed them. Neither were big or were highly skilled player. They also both had scored at every level they played at and had put up very good numbers in the AHL.
Like these guys, Rakhshani has scored well at every level including the AHL despite not being considered a highly touted prospect. I’m definitely not suggesting that this formula is a guarenteed formula for success. I do think though that we need to at least consider this when evaluating Rakhshani.
I agree with you that Kabanov’s skill level makes him an athlete prospect and under no circumstances should we trade him at this point. I hate when people point to his alleged attitude problems as a reason to get rid of him. We are not recruiting for the boy scouts.
there's another side to this, isn't there?
:::wipes pie from face::::
It was touched on above, briefly – in a league where you may only get five 100-point scorers, anyone who could be a point-per-game producer is as rare as hen’s teeth and ought to be considered more than just trade bait for a defenseman, even an excellent one like Shea Weber. A guy like Kabanov, for example, has that elite hand/shot combination. He could conceivably become a 75-point guy in the NHL. And nothing he’s done since moving to Lewiston gives the impression that he’s a bust, does it?
If I’m going to consider the future for a 17 or 18 year-old kid, one thing I’m going to look at very carefully is how much progress he’s made. He started out being bratty at the World Juniors and annoying his coaches. From there he talked about becoming more mature and behaving himself, went to Lewiston – and in those seven months since, have we heard anything about him being a partier or a disruption? Has he annoyed his team or his coaches? Has he stopped performing on the ice? Far from it, he’s playing wonderfully, he’s leading his 8th-seed team into the second round where they’re in the process of pantsing the second-seed; and off-ice he’s been nominated for a humanitarian award.
That says progress, not immaturity. I wouldn’t give up on that just yet.
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by mikb on Apr 15, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I tried to read, but it's hard to take a man with whip cream pie on his face serious.
Especially when he keeps wiping his face, licking it and getting that dopey little, “Mmmm whip cream” grin after every other sentence.
But for the record, I agree. It seems like he’s the type of guy that the less you of hear of him, the better.
Its nice of the poster to take the time to write all about Kabby for us...
Imagine he turns out to be a gem???Man, we have more talent now than we’ve had since the old days…
Really not hard to imagine.
Once again, the only negatives of Kabby were his attitude. Not his talent.
True but attitude means everthiing in the long run...
Its easy to see he has the potential…
once Kabanov gets to the NHL
his teammates will keep him in line and teach him how to act with maturity
the Islanders these days are a smart, mature bunch – that will help as well
Kabanov could be a GREAT 2nd line mainstay
we indeed have some really good prospects on offense to get excited about
Nino
Kabanov
Lee
training camp will be very very interesting next year
by Cary K on Apr 16, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Attitude DOES NOT mean EVERYTHING in the long run
Listen, attitude matters. No question, particularly before you get to the NHL. But it’s probably the easiest thing for a player to fix: you can change your attitude, you can’t go from low to high in talent.
Attitude means everything is a principle...You become the way you think...If you have great skill but a shitty attitude it can be youre down fall....
I can go on and on about positive attitude and why you need to have it to succeed in life,…Ironic how you “BA” garik16 can disagree with this principle.
No, that’s not his point. They’re not putting together a high school team here where everyone is more or less at the same shitty level of skill and things like attitude can make a big difference. We’re talking about world class talent — or the absence of it.
Nobody will really care about your attitude if you can put up points.
you're splitting hairs but I disagree...WTF happened to the Devils???KOVYS ATTITUDE needed ADJUSTING
This isnt baseball…Hockey is the ultimate team sport…If you have world class talent but you’re not a team player and you’re a douche bag that doesn’t help the locker room and doesnt help in becoming a winner…That could ruin a locker room…It didn’t look like Kovy was playing as a team player in the first half of this season and the devils team wasnt playing like one….It wasn’t until after he decided to become a team first and complete player that the team started to turn in around…
It's possible it's the other way around
Kovi may have looked selfish during the losing streak, done little or nothing differently, and the team’s success made him look much more like a “team player.” It could also be the different systems Lemaire installed that made Kovi’s game much more compatible with what the rest of the team was doing.
Over at Behind the Net, I saw a post where they examined New Jersey’s underlying numbers and they were much stronger than their record indicated. He also looked at Dallas as an overachiever. He then predicted that Jersey was very likely to rebound and have a strong second half, while Dallas would struggle.
I don’t know that Jersey winning 99.2% of their games while Dallas missed the playoffs were the results he quite had in mind, but he called it. And he didn’t say word one about anyone’s attitude adjusting. Everyone’s easier to get along with when they’re winning and grouchy when they lose.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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by mikb on Apr 17, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This may qualify as my new signature
Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.
Let's stop pretending we know these players personally
or going off of some crap written in the Post. We don’t know what Kovi or Kabanov’s attitude really is beyond the shit that is written about them to
by MatthewM11 on Apr 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
In fact, I think we know more about Kabanov’s dad’s attitude than KK’s…
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by red army line on Apr 22, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
Everyone loves a good controversy about a talented athlete with “attitude” problems. Let’s not forget though that Kabanov was a 17 year old kid when these reports surfaced. What were any of us like as 17 year olds and does that accuratly reflect who we are as adults now? And also Kabanov obviously took this all serious enough to go out of his way to show they he is a good kid by doing all the community service he did this season. All we know for sure is that he has an overbearing father and is a little cocky and those things didn’t work out to bad for Tiger Woods.
What were any of us like as 17 year olds and does that accuratly reflect who we are as adults now?
My god, I dont want to think about it lol.
I had great taste in music, at least there was that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 23, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Size
There are several outstanding smaller players in the league – no need to list them we know their names. But I believe a big part of the Isles scoring success, was having bigger forwards. We have had recent experiences with small players who were AHL stars and high piks and busts with the Isles. Tamby, RHS, and others. Of course Grabs is not a giant, but more of a happy, unexpected surprise to the whole league. Rhett who I like has not skated against the big NHL types except for his short call-up, which was at best an incomplete.
?
I agree size is important but I’m not sure how this relates to Kabanov. He is 6-3 and should be 200lbs+ by the time he is NHL ready, so I don’t think that’s a problem with him.
by MatthewM11 on Apr 20, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Should be" doesn't always happen though. Time will tell on him, but he has ~25lbs to put on before he hits 200lbs, so it's something to question for now.
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Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
well, I never thought I'd top 180
Dammit…
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We are not exactly talking about Theo Fluery
And honestly I don’t want him to bulk up to much and lose speed. Of the concerns I have about Kirill size isn’t one of them. Someone yesterday in another post mentioned that size is overrated in post lock-out hockey and i would have to agree. Especially when you are talking about offensive forwards.
Heavy leg weights. That's the nhl trend I hear for putting on weight. Doesn't slow you down if the weight is put on your lower body(theoretically it makes you faster if done correctly).
Size as in what terms is overrated? Defensively, hell no. Chara isn’t the same player without size, Pronger isn’t, Weber isn’t, etc.
Offensively, arguable. Depends on how your team/linemates are(fast, physical) and what type of player you are(game). Every forward line imo needs some size. JT doesn’t need to be more then average sized because of his talents and game, in the opposite side of the spectrum, powerforwards need to be big to play their ruff and “overly” physical game. It all depends on the circumstances. For example, if one were playing on a line with say Nino or Lucic or Getzlaf, no more size is “technically” needed.
Just looking up active nhl forwards who are 6’3’’(59 of them):
-35.6% of them are 220lbs+
-62.7% of them are 210lbs+
-91.5% of them are 200lbs+
-And a tiny 8.5% of them are under 200lbs
I’m not saying I expect Kirill to put on 35lbs from his draft day to make 210lbs, but I believe 200lbs is a realistic and safe/ideal weight for him. And coincidentally, smaller players are usually more injury prone, so I can understand these numbers.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
Krill nominated...... awwww hes growing up!!!!!!
I think Krill grew up a bit after being traded and where he may not be on the island this coming season, I think he might be here soon. Read some of the press from the Humanitarian Award nomination. The reality is that he might need another year or two to fully understand what it takes to dominate. Below I had located some articles that say he has begun that transformation into what the Isles are looking for. The last one from ESPN sums it up in the last few sentences.
http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=556997&navid=DL|NYI|home
http://mainehockeyjournal.com/2011/03/23/kabanov-named-for-qmjhl-award/
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/hockey/tag/_/name/humanitarian-award
A little more Kirill
ehornick Eric Hornick
#isles prospect Kiril Kabanov has a goal and 2 assists tonight for Lewiston. 4-4 with Montreal after 80 minutes. #QMJHL #NYI
15 minutes ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply
They did lose in the 2nd overtime, but are up 3-2 in the series.
AG 71 Kabanov, Kirill 1 2 +2
Playoffs:
2011 Lewiston, MAINEiacs 10gp 5g 9a 14pts +6 14PIMs
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
Hmm that's the current statistics on the league page. Perhaps Pronman double added?
Ah well, still awesome regardless.
Needs to lower the PIM though.
My 2cents on the Kabanov + Rakh argument.
Kabanov:
The kid has the upside to be a consistent 25goal/60pts(Top 50 NHL offensive talent) playmaking forward at the nhl level. No denying that, but he is still far away. He was “inconsistent” this year in juniors. He “is” turning it up come playoff time. That far from makes him a future nhl player. As JP said, he needs to do this “consistently” to prove himself worthy of an elc and real shot at the pros. Next, what he did to this team early in camp was terrible. When you are given the opportunity of a lifetime, to make an nhl team, you follow all the guidelines and do everything as best you can. “Not” come late to practice “twice”(even if one wasn’t directly regarded as a mandatory thing). He’s been nothing but a giant media pain in the ass for the islanders until recently. Then there’s his last knock, size. 6’3’’ 175-180lbs, he needs to put on at least 15lbs to have an “nhl sized body”. Kabanov needs to hit that weight room hard. His playoffs play is a good foot forward, but he needs to build on that next year if he wants to be considered a true future nhl player.
Leading me to say, Kabanov is not close to being nhl ready, nor does he deserve an elc from the isles. I still like his potential, always have since I read about him. But he is still a project, and still has a lot to do and prove before he deserves an nhl/ahl look(with an ELC). I’m neutral on if Kabanov will do it or not because he has shown “both” good and bad signs of being able to do what he needs to do this past year to make the nhl.
On a little off note, JP’s Nino and Kabanov analogy is a good way of describing it. Both similar in age, both similar in height, and both similar in upsides/talent. BUT, Nino is in the NHL next year because of his character and heavy work ethic and Kabanov is in juniors because of his character and work ethic. Oh, what magic a good head on your shoulders combined with a good work ethic can do.
Rakh:
He had a weird season. Slump here, concussion there, Bailey uprising, linemate shuffling, short callup, playing on a depleted/low-talent ahl team, etc. Rakh had a 66gms 22goal/62pts season, 11gms 5goals/17pts with bailey, 55gms 17goals/45pts without bailey. OR, a 66gms 20goals/54pts equivalent season with no bailey at all. Not a bad season, not an excellent season, somewhere in between. Then there’s Rakh’s skillset: leadership qualities, good shot, above average passing abilities, and a great skater. If Rakh was a bit bigger, even 6’ 200lbs, I think he would have had a much bigger look this season with his skillset. I don’t think he has huge upside, but definitely 3rd line upside. He "could" be a nice fit as a 3rd line RW one day for some nhl team(even if ours isn’t the right fit).
To say the odds are against him is an understatement though. He’s a small prospect, 5’10’’ 185-190lbs, on one of the smallest team’s in the nhl. “And” he is an older prospect, turning 23 this year, a year younger then Joensuu(whom some of us are just about through with). But also take in mind, a number of players make it as nhl starters at 23yrs+ in their careers(Moulson, PAP, Grabs, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, St.Louis, Calamari, Visnovsky, to name some ), especially undersized ones. So Rakh should be far from counted out for being too old. Anyone who tries to argue Rakh is too old to make the nhl is just flat out wrong.
I "could" see Rakh definitely becoming an offensive playmaking 3rd line winger. Will he ever get the shot or make the jump to the nhl? We may never know because of how deep our prospect pool is, but I hope he gets his shot. He has legit 3rd liner offensive playmaker skills, while being defensively responsible, and great character. But I just don’t know if he will get a look. I’d say it’s 50/50 next year depending on how well cizikas and other prospects are doing in the ahl and out injury situation, but I hope he gets a look because I definitely think he could help out the bottom 6 and can show he is a real bottom 6 nhl player once he is given the shot. For all we know, he could be the perfect complimentary player to a Martin/Haley 4th line, lol(think about it).
I just felt like giving my 2cents on everything because of the JP and garik debate. Garik goes heavily off everything stats, and obviously loves what he sees in past high-end prospect Kabanov lately, even if it is premature and a "small" sample. It’s too small to call kabanov a successful solid juniors player. And JP loves Rakh’s skills and touted character, but he is small and is going to be battling in some heavy competition in the ahl and going forward with our draft picks and prospects in the system, not to mention trying to make an already small nhl team.
Even if off topic, in all honesty, Rakh has the better shot of making the nhl team because he is so close in bridge right now. Kabanov has "at least" a year of juniors development more and an ELC to earn before we "should" even think about him in an isles uniform, no matter what his upside is.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
by OzzyFan on Apr 17, 2011 1:30 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice breakdown
Two points though:
1. Kabanov isn’t eligible for the AHL next season, alas. So he’s almost certainly heading back to juniors.
2. While you’ve summed me up normally, I’m not quite going off stats here. I have a belief, regarding prospects, in preferring guys with massive potential above guys who are really close to the big leagues…but whose potential is not very high at all. And I’m a big believer in Kabanov’s potential.
Note, I’m not talking about really raw potential – for example guys like Brock Nelson are guys I’m not very high on. In other words, it’s like when I see a baseball prospect whom the scouts love because “he should develop power,” I’m skeptical. But when the guy not only has a high potential but already has the parts of his game developed that are supposed to lead to realizing that potential, I’m a big believer.
Thanks. I can understand that.
We obviously know each player’s potentials, who is closer to the nhl, and who “would” be an better nhl player if they both make it. Lots of what if’s, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. Kabanov is young and has a long road ahead of him to “make it”, while Rakh has paid his dues maturing, so to speak, and is on the brink of making the show if he can play at a high level and consistently. I think Rakh definitely has the talent and skills to make the nhl as a solid bottom 6 winger, it’s just that he is far from in an idealistic enviroment right now with the isles situation all around. Time will tell on everything and it will be fun to see how it all plays out.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
Let's hope so. He's got skills, but he is a toothpick right now.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
So was Bossy :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 18, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So is Grabner
The only time I saw him have a problem this year was when Orpik hit him into Johnson…If you can fly, you don’t get hit much.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 18, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, and Bossy's career ended early from injuries....
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I hear you
but do you take 10 years of Bossy or 20 years of Bergenheim? Lindros and Forsberg’s careers were cut short too.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Apr 18, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, he's far from being a Bossy. I loved Bossy, everyone loved bossy.
And I have no problem with the draft choice, I’m just saying that toothpick players are more fragile and usually more injury prone. But we have no idea how Kabanov will mature or if he will ever make the team. I expect him to become at least 190-200lbs by the team he sees the nhl, if he can change his mentality.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
I loved Bossy to death
but I wonder if he’d have survived as long as he did in today’s NHL?
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 22, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I would think he would have survived longer in "todays NHL," not shorter.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 22, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, and Bossy’s career ended early from injuries….
I still wouldnt change a THING. Would you?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 18, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Point was, I want Kabanov to put on weight. I loved Bossy, but am saddened by such an amazing player having his career end early. Thinner players are usually more fragile and injury-prone, that's all.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
How About a Line of Kabanov (LW) -Couture (C) - Nino (RW)
Two kids with size and high end skill playing the off wing like both prefer with a 6-4 210 LB. center with skill between them. Sort of like a crash line if you were bashing people in a Mercedes. That’s what I want to see.
lol, let's just say you were thinking mma randy couture and leave it at that. lol
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
i was wondering how we'd afford trading for him
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
lol, trade em Yabo's rights?
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
That would be a "big" line. Defensively responsible with Nino and Couturier. Somewhat physical, and loads of scoring talent. That would be an idealistic 2nd line, maybe even a good 1st line.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
This
is what makes me excited about the future.
Oh, and then we’ve still got JT/MMo/PAP and Grabs/Franselicious/Okposo.
Good god, I’m drooling just thinking about it.
lol, what if's.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
The Rakh vs the Thrill
The Rakh another smurf on a team filled with smurfs. Solid first year numbers and good citizen. Got crushed along the boards during his first NHL trial and was injured. Is this an omen or just a rookie mistake?
The thrill good sized player with acknowledged talent but still a kid. First part of juniors the thrill struggled. Second half of juniors and the playoffs the kid has excelled. The thrill is the 11 ranked point getter in the playoff this year. Has more points then Couturier but far fewer than Huberdeau. Kid was nominated for a humanitarian award as well.
http://lhjmq.leaguestat.com/fr/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_scorers&season_id=166
The islanders are team full of smurfs that must get bigger. What do we do?
Rakh may be a wizard but he has to get stronger and prove himself first in training camp and then when he is called up. The good news is right wing is the weakest area of the team but the bad news is why replace PAP, one smurf, with another unless we acquire a more important asset.
The thrill is slowly getting his game together. Another year in Maine and then I think he will be ready for his ELC assuming he continues the trajectory of his current playing performance and maturity.
I won’t give up on either player after experiencing the fortune of Grabner, Moulson and PAP. We need to be patient and let these players cook appropriately to fit properly on this team. But we have to get bigger to survive the new fast and furious NHL.
Kirill game radio
http://v4.player.abacast.com/player/player.php?pid=1224
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey
Latest News from the Maineiacs
They beat Montreal and are now in the semi-finals. Our boy has 16 points in 11 playoff games and also is +7.
Can I dream a line of El Nino, Couturier and the Thrill? Can you image that could be our second line with MG, FN and KO being our third line?
The pressure our top three lines would be putting on defenses would be scary.
by TheMagus on Apr 18, 2011 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
:droool:
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 18, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I dream a line of El Nino, Couturier and the Thrill? Can you image that could be our second line with MG, FN and KO being our third line?
Oh baby…
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 18, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that could end up being a very expensive 3rd line, lol.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
And well worth it
I agree it is an expensive third line but look at the flip side. We could throw three solid lines against opponents with almost every player scoring 20 goals. We can hit a team with speed, finese and hitting when needed.
But that requires a lucky draft break or two and KK continuing his development.
I agree, it's just going to take some amazing garth contracts to keep everyone on the team for that to happen, and the draft break/everyone maturing properly.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
This is too fun not to do...
“Yourrrrrrr 2013-2014 Stanley Cup Champion NEW YORK IIIIIIIIIISLANDERSS!!!!!”
Nino Niederreiter-John Tavares-Kirill Kabanov
Michael Grabner-Josh Bailey-Kyle Okposo
Anders Lee-Brock Nelson-Rhett Rahkshani
Matt Martin-Casey Cizikas-Michael Haley
Calvin de Haan-Adam Larsson
Andrew Macdonald-Travis Hamonic
Ty Wishart-Blake Kessel
Kevin Poulin
Al Montoya
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Kickin Moulson off the team right before the cup?
That doesnt seem very nice.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Apr 19, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I have so many versions of this...hows aboot:
"Yourrrrrrr 2013-2014 Stanley Cup Champion NEW YORK IIIIIIIIIISLANDERSS!!!!!"
Nino Niederreiter-John Tavares-Kirill Kabanov
Michael Grabner-Josh Bailey-Kyle Okposo
Matt Moulson-Frans Nielsen-Blake Comeau
Matt Martin-Casey Cizikas-Michael Haley
Calvin de Haan-Adam Larsson
Andrew Macdonald-Travis Hamonic
Ty Wishart-Blake Kessel
Kevin Poulin
Al Montoya
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
This is all awesome...
but we still have mostly eggs… and not enough chickens….
Chickens(1 exceptional year, 2 very good years, or three good years): Moulson, Tavares, Grabner, Nielsen, Comeau, Streit
Eggs: Everybody else.
It does sound pretty cool though we shouldn’t count our chickens before they’re hatched.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
lol just havin fun at the bottom of a long post
/stops horsing around, gets back to reading intelligent posts
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
lol, it is a fun game or read either way:
Isles 2013-2014 Stanley Cup Champs
Kabanov-Tavares-Niederreiter
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Moulson-Nelson-Lee
Martin-Haley-Comeau
Larsson-DeHaan
MacDonald-Hamonic
Wishart-Hillen
Poulin
DP
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
and WTF did you do with Frans?
Not good to mess with Dom’s man crush
There's a mountain of buoyant nostalgia under this team and it's going to erupt like Vesuvius when the Islanders are back in playoff contention.... Count on it.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Apr 22, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
That blueline is really young.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 19, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Our blue line is going to be really young.
Glut of D prospects, lack of money.
AMac is quite likely to be the veteran of the staff in the future.
Errr, cuz I was just efffing around
>;-) actually I put him there cuz he’s 6’2" RH shot and projects in the bottom pairing, if any. I also believe either de Haan or Donovan will be traded, seeing how we have a glut of LH avg-size/small puckmoving D.
Sorry all, was only meant in fun!
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Rhett
Mostly everything has been said on all sides of the subject, and my take is that at best he might not be a good fit for the team. However her certainly has a lot of pluses – which might fit with a slowish big team. Therefore a good trade or package might be worked out for say a Wishart type prospect [before he provedd himself ] that could develop in the Bridge.
It's an idea. I'd give Rhett a look next season as an injury call-up for some games before we think about that though.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game, whom won 4 consecutive cups. I'm bleeding Blue and Orange.
Let's go Islanders! Beep...Beep...Beep.Beep.Beep.
Datsyuk IS the best player in the nhl
Updated News
The thrill scores another goal.
http://www.lewistonhockey.com/article/sea-dogs-take-game-two-4-1
Manieaics lost but Kirill is doing well.
by TheMagus on Apr 24, 2011 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kabanov Should Be Right at Home With Isles
Link to article:
The Maineiacs are losing money and their future in Lewiston is unsettled. Gee, where have I heard something similar?
More Kabanov News
He scored another goal yesterday but the Sea Dogs won again. He was the third star of the game.
We have a player in our midst!!!!!
Kabanov had an assist in his final game of the season
As the Sea Dogs came back from a 3-0 deficit to win the series in a 6-5 slugfest.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
