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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

Why Michael Grabner is *our* Calder Trophy winner

"...This will end up being a 1-2 battle between Skinner and Couture when the Professional Hockey Writers' Association votes come in. It's totally a toss-up and both kids deserve the award, but I'll go with the player who added defensive responsibilities to his game on top of the offense he provided."

>>Pierre LeBrun, ESPN.com [emphasis mine]

I apologize in advance for not using this platform afforded me to campaign harder for Michael Grabner's compelling Calder Trophy candidacy. But as I've mentioned in the past, I just can't put much stock in voted NHL awards. They make for pretty hardware and contract bonuses (and reflect the dominant "story" of a season), but they can often be explained the same way you explain how Paris Hilton sells ... uh, whatever she sells: Someone had the right media buzz or advocate at the right time. It's not clear how PHWA voters (or GMs, or broadcasters, depending on the award) vote and why, but too often their apparent rationale does not impress.

This is not to pick on ESPN's two main hockey writers; rather, their rationales are just an easy example of what I'm talking about.

Star-divide

What is More Defensively Responsible than the Penalty Kill?

Is the penalty kill a defensive responsibility, do you think? Because Michael Grabner spent about a minute and a half on the PK per game this season, and you know what his shorthanded plus/minus (if there were such a thing for shorthanded situations) was in all that time? Even. Zero. Grabner was on the ice for seven shorthanded goals for, and seven opposition powerplay (5-on-4) goals against. He scored six of those shorties himself. (Skinner saw basically zero PK time, while Couture averaged 1:04 per game.)

 

Zone Starts: Wait, Who Has Defensive Responsi-what Now?

Grabner played with Frans Nielsen for most of the season. Which means he drew the toughest assignments on the team and started shifts in his own zone more than most (only 46.6% of his shifts began in the O-zone...Jeff Skinner and Logan Couture were both at 51.3%). This is what you do with a defensively competent player.

(By the way, if you're into this, Grabner's plus/minus on a team whose goal differential was minus-35? Only +13. Skinner was +3 on a team whose differential was minus-3. Couture was +18 on a team whose differential was +35. I'm just saying.)

 

Clutchy McClutcherton: My Team Has more Clutch Goals than Y-- Duh, Winning!

When the Sharks were floundering earlier this season, it was Couture who provided clutch performances in spite of his youthfulness.

>>Scott Burnside, same article

I have no idea what that means, but I bet it has to do with Couture's eight "game-winning" goals for a team that won 48 games, while Grabner "only" had three for a team that won 30 games and Skinner had two for a team that won 40. (You know how "game-winning" goals are marked, right?) Again, Grabner was put in every situation "despite his youthfulness" too.

Regardless, I do know that Grabner was, along with Frans Nielsen, among the top two Islanders forwards by almost any measure you can imagine save for points, where John Tavares (and his 50.7% O-zone start and 3:30 per game PP time) led the team. Grabner, by contrast, saw just 54 second per game of PP time, much of it late in the season and on the unfamiliar point. (Tavares and linemates Matt Moulson and P.A. Parenteau continued to get the bulk of up-front PP minutes. Meanwhile, Skinner saw 3:10 per game on the PP and Couture saw 2:11.)

 

Why the Narrative Doesn't Fit the Reality

Again, this isn't to pick on ESPN -- they're typical of countless pundits trying to make heads or tails of a league where you can't possibly watch all 30 teams with any thorough sense of reality. I get that. Pundits have to take shortcuts; often, that shortcut relies on the narrative tales of their brethren. ("I'm telling you, like Todd McLellan totally trusts Couture. Totally.")  The Islanders happen to not have many "brethren" covering their narrative (nor voting on awards, as it happens, this year), so Graner's actual usage by his coach is, in a given year, as likely to be discovered as dark matter.

Which is why I don't put too much stock in NHL awards, although they are fun to debate. And frankly, I don't mind if people credit Skinner more because he's a munchkin playing in a man's league at age 18; that's pretty impressive, and most 18-year-olds in this league are frankly in over their head. (I do think it's a bit of a reach to credit 22-year-old Couture, who played 25 games with San Jose last year, for being young while ignoring 23-year-old Grabner.) I was among those who thought 31-year-old Sergei Makarov never should have won the Calder (prompting the league to put an age max on the trophy), so I get the whole subjective nature of this entire process.

But if the conversation is about rookie forwards this year, voters should at least know this: Grabner led the league in rookie goals, was third in points, all while facing the toughest defensive assignments among standout rookie forwards and only getting to goose his offensive numbers with four PP points (Skinner had 18 PP points, Couture had 14). It seems either because Grabner didn't have the buzz early or because he was on a team that was off the radar all season, that he never garnered serious consideration and instead got the late-season, superficial, "oh he scored some and should be mentioned, too, but my mind was made up and I have a flight to catch" treatment.

If you think someone else deserves the Calder, that's fantastic and is your right. Just, please: Take a look at what actually happened before you tell your version of the story.

Comment 43 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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And.........

The NY sports writers are abstaining from the vote because of CB ?

Grabs you got my vote

by Torch7 on Apr 12, 2011 7:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

yup, and Im afraid it will make a difference

If Grabs had a chance we couldn’t depend on the outside media as much as the locals…at least the writers here are witnessing his greatness,,,Everyone outside just look at the Isles as the pikers of the NHL and Grabs wont get the credit he deserves….

by KO21 on Apr 12, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Grabs would have my vote.

Even if i didn’t follow the team and know how good Grabner has been this year I would vote for him based on this article alone. Seriously, you out did yourself with the stat breakdown. I am pretty sure the guys that vote on these awards don’t break it down quite like that.

I gave up on those pinheads at ESPN along time ago when they stopped broadcasting NHL games in favor of the WNBA and Bowling. Seriously how can they even think to be anything but a joke when they don’t have a real hockey show.

The Calder is cool but the Cup is cooler.

by Zenfoeracer on Apr 12, 2011 8:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Eh, whatever.

I prefer people to not know much about our best players. When next year arrives, assuming the injury gods don’t smite us yet again, the narrative will be “What has gotten into the Islanders???? It’s the same players as last year and they’re tearing up the league! It’s gotta be steroids!”

The longer people are in denial, the better it is for us.

Commissioner of the FIG pool, because I'm one mediocre player.

by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Apr 12, 2011 9:07 AM EDT reply actions  

#grabsisfast

Grabner’s so fast he’s already a five year vet.

We all know the deal. This is a guy that is going to see a big uptick in minutes and responsibilities going forward. He can be trusted and was trusted because frankly, this team had few options defensively. All of that whil turning the PK into a leathal threat. While Frans was potting some shorties, I’m pretty sure his SHGs increased when Grabs was added to the mix.

He didn’t “fit in” like Skinner and Couture, he kicked the door down and made everyone around him better. He jumped Frans and KOs assists up, and helped to bring our PK up from league bottom to a respectable middle of the pack. (Which was no small feat considering how awful it was).

Considering the strength of the rookie crop this year, it’s great that we even hav someone in (some) consideration. Nobody is talking about the goaltenders (Chi, Tor, Phi) or the defensemen (Was, Ana, and dare I say Haminic). I think this years race will be closer than usual…or at least it should be.

While an award would have been a nice consolation prize in a floundering season, we can take solace in the fact that he’s our Grabner, he’ll be here for a long time and we got him for free.

Grab that PHWA!

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Apr 12, 2011 9:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

exactly!!!!
While an award would have been a nice consolation prize in a floundering season, we can take solace in the fact that he’s our Grabner, he’ll be here for a long time and we got him for free

I am so looking forward to next season!
These guys are just so good together and Grabs is icing on the cake.

"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies

by JW1970 on Apr 12, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

#grabsisfast

Grabs is so fast that he already won the last 5 Calders without anyone noticing.

by Paumanok on Apr 12, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

take the high road...

sit back, enjoy your pipe on your couch, you aren’t allowed to win the calder, because that would only provide legitimacy to an illegitimate franchise

Proudly Serving Organic Lettuce to Hoppy since Feb 2011

by bob l on Apr 12, 2011 9:26 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't think Grabs will mind

For all the reasons you mentioned, he definitely is the most worthy candidate. But I’m figuring Grabs would probably be taking a nap then going to some stupid awards ceremony anyway.

Intently glued to every COZO

by Chris McNally on Apr 12, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

LMAO

"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies

by JW1970 on Apr 12, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's probably too busy enjoying

his son (#babygrabsisfast) and family life to care.

I say, as a protest for one day, when grabs takes a nap, we ALL take naps. Lets see society continue while Islander nation sleeps!!

Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!

by CharlieIsles on Apr 12, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd

like my chances of ever getting a nap!!!!

"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies

by JW1970 on Apr 12, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't even know that he's the best candidate

I mean, it depends on your criteria (e.g. whether Skinner gets a pre-pubescent bonus, etc., and whether there was “no pressure” on Grabner because his team was out of it all year long (which I think is B.S., but…)).

I just think if people are voting because of scoring or “defensive responsibility,” they should sure as hell check out what Grabner actually did.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Apr 12, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he was more 'dominant' than either of the other two

But I guarantee because he was on a last place team. I think if these guys wanted a 2-way forward then how on earth do they not consider a guy with a huge number underneath the SHG statistic? IF he’s getting that many shorties than he obviously is on the kill a lot, which only goes to the team’s best defensive forward.

Intently glued to every COZO

by Chris McNally on Apr 12, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Even goal differential on the PK is insane

For anyone with regular PK time to be even is just unheard of. That stat needs to be put on every discussion board about the Calder.

You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?

by Anarcurt on Apr 12, 2011 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Grabner finished as the #1 PKer in the league this year.

He finished with the best corsi (shot differential) on the Penalty Kill as well as the best relative corsi. He’s 5th in Relative +/- (His +/- on PK compared to when he’s off the ice on the PK).

Just…soo….good.

by garik16 on Apr 12, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Nothing takes away from the incredible season Grabs had. We all know he deserves the Calder trophy, but he won’t get it. Thats all there is to it. Like someone said earlier in this thread, its better for us that the rest of the league and the media underestimates this team. But, Grabs should be the rookie of the year!!

by Icefan71 on Apr 12, 2011 10:28 AM EDT reply actions  

There going to care a lot

If Basketball and Football are both locked out when Hockey starts, I can tell you that much.

"had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman" Skeeterman
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Apr 12, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not a big fan of people that have >20 gms winning RoTY

So that leaves Skinner. (Couture already had 40 gp!)

On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1

by Ubiquitous on Apr 12, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I was going to say "or Carlson"

But then I realized Carlson played 22 last year. I didn’t even bring him up here because D vs. F gets into a whole ‘nother territory, and the writers I cherry-picked didn’t even go there.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Apr 12, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

hopefully he's at least announced as a finalist

His work has been nothing short of amazing… and you know, it’s not like he’s unknown, he was at the ASG, won that Fastest Skater thing… people should at least know who the hell he is.

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Apr 12, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

And now for something completely different...

First off… you make a very compelling argument for Grabner, better than I would have. (rec’d) I see Grabner as the better offensive and defensive forward, but basically because he’s had four more years to mature as a hockey player. Both players were tremendous rookie assets to their team, but Skinner did it without four years of expense to bring him to that level. If you want to go apples to apples you might compare him to Bailey to see just how productive a true rookie MIGHT be when he is ready to step into an NHL role with true NHL support.
I actually feel that Hamonic was a more surprising rookie for the Islanders. He traveled a more conservative path than some higher round rookies of the past few years, but he ws thrown right into the fire. Tavis also took his share of PK time and was used on hte PP after he proved he could handle it responsibly. He was playing top pair minutes, and doing it with veteran like physicality.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Apr 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree on Hamonic, and I think age does play a factor.

I didn’t see Couture play at all, but I saw Skinner about 5 or 6 times and he was very very impressive. I would be OK w/ him winning.

Hey, maybe the Isles can sign him cheaper w/out the hardware.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Apr 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm rooting for Grabner

But Skinner would be my favorite if I was gambling. But Hamonic is my favorite to be the best more valuable player of the three 5 years down the road. We might be looking at a 50-60 PT defenseman that hits, clears the crease, stands up for teammates and can skate with the best forwards in the league. That is something we haven’t had in over a decade.
I have a feeling that Wishart is going to be right there as well. I just hope he gets to spend qualitiy time with Capuano and Chynoweth over the summer discussing a role… He might be the best untapped prospect on the A/NHL fence next year.
Of course tonight will mean a lot to his future as well.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Apr 12, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was thinking about Hamonic too

Given their age/experience, I could listen to Hamonic as the more impressive Isles rookie, all things considered.

I didn’t want to go into F vs. D on this though, what with the focus on three forwards.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Apr 12, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bailey

was also thrown to the wolves, the Canes are a much more solid team with more talent around Skinner.

If anything I’d say JT’s first season was close to the average of a high pick. He played with Moulson and whoever, with Streit and whoever on Defense. As good as a Defenseman as Streit is there’s only so much a good Dman can do.

"had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman" Skeeterman
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Apr 12, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was my point...

Carolina not only has a good player support system, they have a coach that has done a few loops in the NHL. It’s one of the most frustrating decisions by[recent] Isles brass to me. New coach. Team with absolutely no continuity and they toss Okposo and Bailey directly into the fire. At least Kyle had an extra year of college and got a little exposure the year before, but I really think they hindered Bailey’s development. There’s no way to prove it… but that was originally one of the arguments I made about bringing in Gordon…. one of the “blind leading the blind” scenarios.

JT was an exceptional player, and did a very good job to keep his head above water in his rookie year. I’m still a little worried about the team progressing as fast as it should, but after the strides they took with Capuano I have a much better feeling that everybody will at least have some SUCCESS to gain confidence from. That really hasn’t existed here since the first Nolan year, and everybody quit the circus as soon as they could find a ride.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Apr 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

FYI, Michael Farber at SI is voting for Grabner

Farber is using Dominik’s logic almost verbatim and it is a compelling argument. It looks like the protest by the local PHWA may cause more national writers to take a look at the Islanders. Will it help or hurt, no one will know for sure, but I think it is better than being ignored.

As for the age/experience argument, the award has an age eligibility requirement attached to it as well as a games played requirement. If you are eligible, then age is already taken into account so for me its end of story. Otherwise change the criteria altogether. The award has always been given to the rookie that has had the best rookie season as defined by the rules, not who the best NHL player will become based on his performance as a rookie. So although I think Skinner’s performance has been exceptional, the fact that he did it at 18 means no more than Grabner at 23 or Couture at 22. If age is the new criteria then only the youngest player on each team should be eligible regardless of how many NHL seasons or games played.

Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011

by Hockey1919 on Apr 12, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

1919!

Good to “see” ya. Thanks for the tip.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Apr 12, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Farber link

His write-up is here. Nice to see his thoughts on writers voting for awards, too.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Apr 12, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

another reason

From Marc N of Deer Park, via Botta’s Twitter:

#Isles scored 34 more goals than Panthers this season. @grabs40 scored 34 goals this season.

Maybe Dale Tallon should win the Calder this year!

We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Apr 12, 2011 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I think Grabs had a great year

But I keep thinking about Skinner’s age. He’s still a freaking kid! He can’t even legally drink in Canada (except Quebec, but no one cares about them) yet, and he’s undressing grown men.

Grabner’s got 5 years on him, which would in my mind be the deciding factor for me (I was close between the two of them).

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

"You can't come in my kitchen, kick my dog, and take a box full of ballpoints! Your ass must be crazy!"

by Semi_Colon on Apr 12, 2011 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Manitoba and Alberta also have 18 as their drinking age. Just saying.

Grabner would have my vote, but I don’t watch much ’Canes hockey, so Skinner would be suffering much the same way Grabner does in the minds of others.

So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.

by thelastjohnny on Apr 12, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Manitoba and Alberta also have 18 as their drinking age

Quiet, you’re ruining my joke!

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

"You can't come in my kitchen, kick my dog, and take a box full of ballpoints! Your ass must be crazy!"

by Semi_Colon on Apr 12, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

If five years from now Skinner doesn't progress to Grabner's level, does the NHL rescind the award?

I keep seeing the projection based on age and I don’t get the relevance. Toews was the player that was going to have the best NHL career in his rookie year, but he didn’t win the Calder because he did not have the best rookie season. Now I think Skinner may win it on his merit alone, but I don’t see how his age factors into it when all the players we are discussing meet the age requirements.

One other factor going into the debate. Grabner is the fastest skater in the NHL as well. He won the title fair and square at the skills competition, no judges to mcuk it up. He was also a rookie of the month so you can factor those into his resume as well.

Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011

by Hockey1919 on Apr 12, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying

That I’m projecting he should be even better in 5 years – just that 5 years of growing, especially between 18 and 23, can add a lot of strength and speed to a player, and that he was able to overcome the sever age difference (normally a detriment to the vast majority of hockey players) between himself and the rest of the league and still perform exceptionally.
And like I said, I’m considering this a tie breaker between Grabs and Skinner. They both had great seasons, but considering how hard it is for an 18 year old to compete with men, I would slant to him.

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

"You can't come in my kitchen, kick my dog, and take a box full of ballpoints! Your ass must be crazy!"

by Semi_Colon on Apr 12, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

By saying he did it at age 18 it has the implication that he would be better at 25.

Now by all rights he should be, but we’ve seen players trend downward (Cheechoo) after phenomenal rookie seasons. All I’m am saying is that you have to judge players but what they accomplished and none of the other mitigating circumstances really matter. For the same matter that you shouldn’t give a defenseman the Calder, just because playing D is harder than playing O in your rookie year, you should give the award becasue the Defenseman was the best rookie.

Is it harder at 18 playing against men than at 25? Yes, but so is playing at 40 against 25 year olds and I don’t see anyone saying Lidstrom should win the Norris because he is older, just becasue he is better. If Skinner wins the vote it should be based on believing he was the best rookie, not because he was the best player for an 18 year old.

Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011

by Hockey1919 on Apr 12, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

He really does deserve it

But i think it will go to skinner. In addition to what you said about the game winning goals, he plays on a team loaded with superstars, so dont you think that maybe heatly, thorton, marleu, or any of those guys could have gotten those goals. The sophmore slump can go to someone else

by nyidangle17 on Apr 12, 2011 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Well if age plays a factor, what about country of birth.

As an austrian, no offense to their hockey program, I believe he was a disadvantage for 5 years compared to the Canadian Skinner who was in a solid development program from day one.

I know Grabner played Juniors in Canada, but its just a spin on the age thing. Coming from a less traditional hockey market and ascending to the tops.

Dont take this too seriously.

by ghalbart on Apr 12, 2011 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

What more could he do?

Really, it must be said out loud again. Grabner leads rookies in scoring and is the best PKr in the entire NHL. What else is there? We kept joking about being on the Grabner Play when a man down, and here’s data to show teams that received power plays against us literally HAD NO ADVANTAGE when Grabner was on the ice. You might argue he’s so fast he’s like having two players out there.

Nothing against Skinner, but can anyone in the league — rookie or not — make that claim? Think Malkin or Ovechkin or for that matter, Mike Bossy led rookies in scoring and in shorthanded goals?

But as already mentioned, Grabner NOT winning will save us some cap space, so there’s that.

by BobSulli on Apr 12, 2011 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

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