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Isles Pride and Campbell Prejudice - what punishment on the Gillies-go-round?

It is a truth universally recognized, that a hockey player who is just coming off a lengthy suspension for a dirty hit, must be in want of another one.

Hm.  Maybe Jane Austen wouldn't be much of a hockey fan.  If she were, however, I'm sure that she would be shaking her head primly at the impropriety of Trevor Gillies.

Since I spent last night visiting those two guys under a rock in the Geico commercial, I'm coming into this late.  I flipped on the morning replay of The Final Score, saw Okposo's goal as the teaser, and got a kick out of the announcer calling poor Kyle "OCK-paso."  I had no idea that after that highlight, I'd be treated to Trevor 2.0.

After seeing it, I felt certain that there would be froth; and lo, it came to pass.  Mike Milbury - apparently not at all the same guy who recently frothed at Andrew Ference for calling out his teammate, Daniel Paille, for a bad hit - was immediately calling out Gillies for the bad hit.  That he and his "Big Bad Bruins" were well-known for coming to each other's defense, as Gillies was doing for Justin DiBenedetto, seems to have been overlooked in his eagerness to condemn.  He also blamed the islanders as an organization, which almost makes me think he's Colin Campbell in an ill-fitting Mike Milbury body-suit.  (I'm expecting another Sad Mario is Sad letter, too, as he further laments the state of hockey from his private estate in the Kingdom of Wounded Nobility.)

But then a funny thing happened... there wasn't much else besides Milbury and Jones.  Puck Daddy's Greg Wyshinski, predictably, thought it was evil.

Sticking up for teammate Justin DiBenedetto after a boarding penalty on Cal Clutterbuck, Gillies charged the Wild forward and crushed his head against the glass. He was given a 5-minute checking from behind penalty and was ejected from the game. ...

Again, it's a different situation that the Penguins game, which seemed to exist for the Islanders to administer cheap-shot comeuppance for previous acts by Pittsburgh. This was a heat-of-the-moment, tactless hit in defense of a teammate that's inexcusable after serving a 9-game ban.

But even Wysh noticed that Clutterbuck had just thrown an identical hit on DiBenedetto.  He knows that Gillies was coming to DiBo's defense.  He concedes that it was different than the Pittsburgh melee that earned Gillies his nine-game ban.  Oddly, he still calls it inexcusable.  I'm with WebBard on that one... huh?  If there's no excuse for Gillies, what about Clutterbuck starting trouble with a rookie in a 3-0 game?

In fact, the lights of reason seem to be shining through the typical media storm, such as TSN's Bob McKenzie, who took to Twitter around midnight Eastern time with his take (below the jump).

Star-divide

(The link in the first sentence is to the tweet in question - you can scroll up from there, they're all in a row. I'm putting them in paragraph form below for legibility's sake.)

How many games for Gillies? Good question. Forget for moment it's repeat offender Gillies. If some generic player did it, how many? My personal opinion is it should be (for non Gillies player) 2 to 4 games. Payback hit. No puck there. Shot to head. But...

In today's NHL, I venture a non-Gillies player would only get fined or maybe get a 1 game suspension if no injury on that play. But since it was Gillies and was minutes off returning from 9-game susp, he's going to get more than what any other generic NHLer would get. Just a guess: 4 or 5 games and, yes, I know many will call for double digits or life. Clutterbuck's health will be the x factor too.

Incidentally, not that it really matters, but it wasn't a hit from behind. Boarding or charging or perhap elbow (forearm), for sure. Only 1 camera angle - last one shown on game broadcast - clearly shows arm making direct contact with the head.

If you scroll up from there, it looks as if some folks took umbrage to this. Aaaaaah! A rational response! BURN THE WITCH!  And here's the thing - I don't blame them, per se.  It DOES look bad.  And fans are going to be upset anyway, especially the Minnesota fans.  It's expected.  Every team is nothing but innocent little angels, except where they aren't - but that's different!  And honestly?  Isles fans are the same.  People defend Trevor Gillies' presence on the Isles roster as a necessary precaution against the bevy of cheap shots taken against Okposo (Phaneuf), John Tavares (Pronger and others), Frans Neilsen (Mike Mottau), Blake Comeau (Talbot), and Rick DiPietro (Cooke).

These people, sad to say, have a point.

That gets us to the underlying problem here.  Gillies is an enforcer - he's designed to keep dirty play from happening.  So, when Clutterbuck boards DiBenedetto, Gillies comes around and lets Clutterbuck know that this sort of thing comes with a cost.  Gillies is not going to turn Clutterbuck around and pummel him unless he does something really out of line.  Gillies' hit was meant to be equal to what Clutterbuck did to DiBo.  (And lest we forget, DiBo's a rookie playing his second-ever NHL game - it looks a lot like Clutterbuck was picking on the new guy, another long-standing NHL tradition.)  Last year, Clutterbuck gets two for boarding, Gillies gets two for charging, and nobody would have batted an eye.

Since the lockout, however, the league is trying to tame the frontier justice.  The problem is that their solution - the ill-named "instigator" penalty - actually punishes the enforcer and NOT the instigator, the guy running around and stirring the pot.  Not surprisingly, those guys are stirring harder and faster than ever, with no end in sight.

Rule 48 - ostensibly to protect players from concussion - is in its own way just making things worse, because again the NHL is not addressing the problem, only the appearance.  Not that the rule iteslf is bad, mind you... in theory.  But it didn't keep Marc Savard safe.  It didn't keep Sidney Crosby safe.  It didn't keep Comeau safe.  NONE OF THOSE HITS WERE PENALIZED IN ANY WAY.  And an accidental contact with the head is an automatic ejection - the refs are given no discretion at all to give two, or give five without an ejection.  And frankly, they need that discretion, because hockey players are not only the fastest-moving athletes, they're shifty and elusive and a guy trying to separate a player from the puck with a clean hit may catch him awkwardly and hurt him without any intent - or make contact with someone's head because he ducked his shoulder a split-second before contact.

As far as Gillies is concerned, McKenzie's correct, and he's gonna get at least five games. Certain media who have been using the Isles' struggles during their rebuild as a hook to hang lazy columns off of will now have another lazy hook - the Isles can't compete so they're gooning it up. I mean, you've seen Slap Shot! Amirite? You hear me, Columbus Dispatch fans!  And they're not going to notice or much care that the Isles have played good hockey after Woe-vember, that they have a lot of good young players (and more on the way - Neiderreiter, de Haan, Cizikas, Lee).  They're going to take the lazy way out.  It's a perfect, ready-made excuse to pile on; all the better that they may have a point about Gillies, who offers just about zero hockey value beyond the protection of his teammates and esprit de corps.

Honestly, it's tiresome to have to go over this ground again.  It distracts from the real turnaround happening on Long Island.  Mock the small crowds and the poor record, but this team is getting much better.  They are definitely in the mix next season for a playoff berth.

As for Rule 48... it's time for a little sense and sensibility.  I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the rule needs a major overhaul, because it doesn't do what it was meant to do, protect the players.  Quite the reverse, I'm afraid - I'm forced to conclude that the NHL is only trying to cover its collective fundament, so it doesn't get sued by players whose careers have been impaired or ruined, like Savard, like LaFontaine before him, like others to come if this doesn't get seriously addressed.  But the rules already provide for tossing guys out when they aim to injure, who have no reason for their hitting, who aren't trying to prevent goals but knock opponents out of the game.  You could look it up - and I've reffed my share of rec league games, so I have - boarding, charging, elbowing, high-sticking, and many others can result in majors.  Use THOSE tools that are already in place to discipline the actual instigators.  Fine them.  Fine their franchises.  Don't just hold your nose and look the other way until the enforcer gets your attention for doing what you ought to have done in the first place - hold the initiators responsible.  You will soon have far fewer of them.

Beyond that, the league and its fans have to recognize one thing - even proper rules enforcement won't stop the agitators and the dirty players.  That's what makes them dirty.  So what it's against the rules?  I'm gonna smack that guy face-first into the boards two seconds after the puck's gone!  It will happen anyway.  Matt Cooke's breed of play has a lineage going back through Claude Lemeiux and Ken Linseman, back to before the NHL existed.  You can take care of the casual offender and he will not repeat it; the incorrigible we shall always have with us.  Because of that, the enforcer is still required to deal out a Moustache Ride in response.

The current "fighting has no place in our game" moralizing from the league is complete hogwash, frankly.  It's self-serving, and allows Bettman and Campbell to sound correct while actually doing things that are the exact oposite of helpful.  The goon who does nothing but fight is bad for the game, they say; well, what about the goon who does nothing but endanger other guys' health and careers?  The enforcer would be far less necessary if you cracked down on the behavior he's there to punish!  Heck - enforcers might even need to be able to carry their weight for 8-10 minutes a night.  Wonder of wonders, if you curtail dirty play, you might just improve the quality of the hockey being played.  Once you get past the tribal instinct of "my team good, all others suq lulz !!!one!!1!" the fans get that; they know punishing the enforcer more than the troublemaker serves, in practice, to protect the troublemaker.  That's the real reason why dirty play is on the rise.

The late Bob Probert (rest in peace) and Dave Schultz could play plenty well when they weren't throwing down.  Clark Gillies was so good at both aspects of the game, he made the Hall of Fame - and he never accumulated 100 PIM in a single season.  He didn't need to.  It can be done.  But it requires a sensible system of discipline, that people can trust to be just and impartial.  We're farther from that goal now than we were during the alleged big, bad 70's.  The current Wheel of Discipline system is ridiculous because the guy who starts stuff gets punished less than the guy who steps in to stop it. 

If you want more Clark Gillies and less Trevor Gillies - and honestly, I'm good with that - then protect good players by punishing people who are trying to injure them, rahter than merely defend against them.  The rest will take care of itself.

Comment 263 comments  |  13 recs  | 

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i think you should email this to Bettman

perfectly written, gets the point across, hell, we should get this on every hockey website lol

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 3, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Message sent

For too many yrs the Isles were being man handled…This yr they decided, enoughs enough….You f*** with one of the Isles you might get your head smashed and we are willing to take a suspension and lose salary for it…Message sent…Dont eff w us or yuou might get hurt…Thank you Gillies for caring and not giving a f*** and taking care of your own

by KO21 on Mar 3, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Full of interesting points
But the rules already provide for tossing guys out when they aim to injure, who have no reason for their hitting, who aren’t trying to prevent goals but knock opponents out of the game. You could look it up – and I’ve reffed my share of rec league games, so I have – boarding, charging, elbowing, high-sticking, and many others can result in majors. Use THOSE tools that are already in place to discipline the actual instigators. Fine them. Fine their franchises.

Man, I’ve been pleading this for so long! Is it that the refs feel they can only call the latest special directive from the league office? Why is intent to injure disregarded except for a sucker punch or, now, a head shot?

The problem is that their solution – the ill-named “instigator” penalty – actually punishes the enforcer and NOT the instigator, the guy running around and stirring the pot. Not surprisingly, those guys are stirring harder and faster than ever, with no end in sight.

I’m not one who thinks enforcers automatically deter abuse of star players — it’s more nuanced than that — nor am I one to mourn the instigator rule at every turn, since it does deter the bully goon, but yours is the perfect fine-tuning of the issue. The NHL wants fights but doesn’t want them to “enforce” (only hired-gun v. hired-gun fights are encouraged). It wants players to police themselves but the instigator allows those who would stir but not fight to outsource the policing. It’s constantly trying to have it both ways, so we constantly end up with these debates, which they probably love except when it costs Marc Savard his career.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

should be 0.

Even 1 game is ridiculous.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

100% agree

0, maybe a fine, a small one. The hit was retaliatory. But Jesus, it wasn’t even close to a hit from behind. Gillies only two infraction were it being a retaliation hit and having his hands up high instead of low. He didn’t deliver an elbow to the head, if anything his glove hit him in the head. This is such an over blown bunch of C%&# from the NHL and the NHL media

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t disagree. I’m just seeing if I can peg the moving target that is THE ISLANDERS WHEEL OF JUSTICE.

For the record I nailed Gillies on the first go-round. Feel much less confident here though.

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2011/2/11/1989335/islanders-9-penguins-3-brent-johnson-isnt-smiling-anymore#59044284

by afrosupreme on Mar 3, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Cooke got a phone call so it was pre-determined without a hearing 4 or less

Gillies is visiting in person so you have to think it is more than 4. The penalty will far and away out weigh the crime, but the saddest part is we will not be shocked by the disparity.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 3, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Why 0?

I’m not disagreeing or agreeing, I’m actually not sure what I think the suspension should be, if anything…

Do you feel the fact that he’s only a few shifts off a 9 game suspension for a similar hit (headshot) should be taken into account?

Should he not be suspended because he was aiding a teammate that was just hit from behind?

Because the match penalty was sufficient?

Because it was it a clean hit?

Because hockey fans would go through Gillies Glare withdrawal?

by Dorfer on Mar 3, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Because the match penalty was sufficient?

Definitely sufficient, since it wasnt really a hit from behind nor was he targeting the head.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

he absolutely targeted the head, I'm not sure how you even dispute that

He should get no games. The major penalty and game misconduct should’ve been enough.

I think the league will give him 3 b/c Clutterbuck played the next night against the Rags and plus they know Clutter is a douche.

So give me the under.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Mar 4, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

His hit targeted the head alright, if by "head" you mean "shoulder"

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 4, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

so his hands accidently hit him in the face?

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Mar 4, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Its a hand, Pauly. Its not like he shouldered him in the head from behind, which is what countless people are inexplicably accusing him of.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 4, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

My take is not to exonerate or condemn him.

Gillies hands were too high, but it wasn’t from behind. I can’t lay claim to intent, but you don’t need to hit the head, only target it for rule 48 to apply. I know this is not what was called during the game, but the standard that will be applied. He tried to push him high and hard into the glass, instead of keeping his shoulder down (probably doing far more damage BTW) and which would not have been illegal.

His hands were too high like the Tancradi hit, but he didn’t charge or taunt like he did in that incident which made it look worse. This hit was reactionary and not predatory. Clutterbuck sold it, but the refs had their mind’s made up that Gillies was getting tossed as soon as he made contact.

There were extenuating circumstances since he was reacting to the hit on DiBo, but the ref had his hand up so you need to allow the officials to get it right once in a while (I was wrong when I initially said no arm was up, but I did try to find an angle and couldn’t until it was pointed out on LHH). I think Clutterbuck’s hit was far more dangerous, but I’m tired of crying foul that what they did was worse. Its never going to be any different with Colon punishing the retaliation and not the instigation.

Gillies wasn’t too bright for not laying low for at least a couple of games and it is going to cost him. If he weren’t coming off of a nine game suspension, then the major and the game served would have been sufficient. Being a repeat offender I would say he deserves one to a pair of games. Knowing he is an Islander and now a repeat offender he gets six.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Upon review
(I was wrong when I initially said no arm was up, but I did try to find an angle and couldn’t until it was pointed out on LHH).

I had the same happen. I missed the one angle on the broadcast that showed his arms ride up. Originally during the game, that view from center ice (the view the one ref, who already had his arm up, saw) made it look like a shoulder-to-shoulder strictly).

That does make me sympathize with refs more. Rule 48 is hard enough on them; I wonder if that’s why they called “from behind” rather than Rule 48 anyway, because they thought it was serious but didn’t know if the head was targeted or not.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

6 sounds like the right over/under

I never know what to base the actual suspension on, since the NHL never does either. I’m pretty sure a good chunk of his 9-game was for the tasteless taunting of an injured player (I can buy that he didn’t know Tangradi was injured when he first started punching, but there is no excuse for standing at the gate, after being tossed, and continuing to taunt).

So I’ll agree with McKenzie: Should be 1 or 2, probably gets 4-6 because it’s Gillies, and still pleases no one. The other wild card is Campbell’s view of Clutterbuck at the moment, which I’m sure changes with his bowel movements in the central office.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's less a Wheel of Justice than a 10 sided D&D die.

20 sided for repeat offenders….you know, that’s not a bad system. And you would be able to use certain types of equipment to counter the # of games received, like:

“Dungeon Master Collie rolls …. A 16!”
“I throw my +4 Ancient CCM Gloves of Penitence!”
“HIT! Your suspension is 12 games and you must battle a Goblin!”

by Les Beaver on Mar 3, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you say "HIT" when you play D&D?

No idea why I threw that in there. Just seemed natural. Like Battleship or something….which also wouldn’t be a bad method of Justice Dispensing.

by Les Beaver on Mar 3, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

these adventures always end the same way for the Islanders

“Your goaltender has been eaten by a grue!!!”

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

“I throw my Goalie Mask of Ill Intentions up on the gruel!”
“The gruel counters with a left and your face if broken. And somehow, your knee is swollen. Not sure how that happened.”
“Oh…that happens all the time. No worries. So…am I done?”
“I don’t know…are you?”
“I don’t ….know?….no?”
“I dunno, it doesn’t look good at all – "
" I LOVE THE FANS!"
“DAMN YOU SIR RICK OF PIETRO! DAMN YOU!”

by Les Beaver on Mar 3, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

lololol

But “grue” is like Christmas… no L, no L…. The exclamation point ruined my joke.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Great job.

Until the NHL deals with the insitgator they will be living with the aftermath of the retaliation. I said it back when Simon got his suspension for hitting Hollweg (with a non-ethinic swinging motion) with his stick that Hollweg should have gotten at least half of Simon’s suspension. To pretend that these acts occur in a vacuum is assinine at best.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 3, 2011 1:35 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

2nded

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally Agree!!

You can see the agitators are reaping the benefits of their cheap shots and the retaliation is whats punished. Does this make sense to anyone?
The NHL did nothing for the hit on Harmonic (game after Pitt,don’t remember the player) which was worse then Gilles hit. I understand the referees miss some calls, but not reviewed? and if they did, then they are truly bias.
Dear NHL please protect “ALL” the players in the league not just the chosen few and promote all the great players, not just “SID”.

by bossy2219 on Mar 3, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Most Excellent

Plus anytime I can get quoted asking about the insanity at puck daddy is a +1 in my book.

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 3, 2011 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

hahahahahaha

You guys are killing me. I love this place. Where else would a post like this be greeted with a flood of Austen quotes?

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Probably adding to our “bad rep” among hockey blogs.

by afrosupreme on Mar 3, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's run to actual imagine Gillies with a dopey grin on his face, dressed with coat tails and a hockey helmet saying these things with a Proper Accent.

“Your son, Gregory, he is just what a young man ought to be,” said Trevor, “sensible, good-humored, lively; and I never saw such happy manners!—so much ease, with such perfect good breeding!”

by Les Beaver on Mar 3, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Guilty...but it's only the beginning!

Just wait ‘till they get going on D&D — oh no, it’s too late! — and EHM hockey sim.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahahahaha

If a life of comics and fantasy novels has taught me anything, it’s that this is an Origins Story waiting to happen.

One of these days all the various strains of geekerie will catch just the right spark, and KBOOM! Superhero with taped horn-rimmed glasses, pocket protector, hipster ponytail and goatee, and engineering degree.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

All this is nothing new anyway!

They never nail the instigator, It’s always the retaliation!

by rob2112 on Mar 3, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

"fighting has no place in our game moralizing from the league ..."

I guess I missed this. When did league executives put this statement out there?

by dose on Mar 3, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

That could be more of a media thing than an official league position

I was extrapolating. This is not in fact a quoted statement from any league official that I know of. I’m making a judgment based on what they’ve been doing and why they say they’re doing it.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

At least he asked Campbell to fight and didn’t jump him from behind ala Todd Bertuzzi or oh yeah Matt Martin….

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

PENS FANS

are so cute!! Never let the facts get in the way of a good post. How is Matt Cooke these days?? i’m sure he will soon win the Lady Byng award, won’t he?? Along with Mr. Talbot & Mr. Rupp & Mr. Tangredi?? Because we all know what absolute SAINTS the Pens have on their team, HUH???

Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
LHH: Where venting your spleen is not just encouraged but expected...

by upstateislesfan on Mar 4, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Bertuzzi >< Martin

Bertuzzi:
Attacked Steve Moore from behind in full stride
When Moore was unaware
Punched him in the head
Drove him face-first into the ice
Landed on him
After Moore had already fought in the first period to answer for the Naslund hit

Martin:
Standing beside Talbot
Talbot knew and refused to turn to face him
Grabbed at (open hand, not a punch) him
Watched him flop to the ground like a soccer player
Skated away from him
After Talbot had repeatedly refused to answer for his recklessness

So, yeah… I can see exactly why you think those were COMPLETELY identical things… in the same way that a quonset hut and Buckingham Palace are both just houses.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

the plays were not all that much different…luckily the results were…and about Matt Cooke, he is dirty, however I found it was funny in the main post how he was mentioned for a cheap shot on Dipietro when Dipietro obviously initiated the contact. I was also at the game earlier this year when he was flopping around like a fish out of water the entire game, acting as if he had been shot on several occasions.

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

*yawn*

Cooke has taken a number of runs at DiPietro every season he’s been a Penguin. You’re pulling out the one moment where DP helped initiate contact, and calling the rest mere DiPietro flopping incidents?

Sure.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't blame you for not being a regular reader here

I called RDP out for going at Cooke at the end of that game. It served no puprose and was embarrassing to the team, regardless of what happend with Johnson. You could hardly know this. But you could come in here without assuming that we’re all monolithically the same. And you could definitely see the clear differences between Martin/Talbot and Bertuzzi/Moore. The entire reason the outcome was different was BECAUSE the incidents happened so differently. The only reason Martin got even the four he did get was because of a prior suspension for a hit from behind. Otherwise he may have only gotten one or two games.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t generalize my thoughts on the Cooke RDP play – i pulled them from the original post at the top of the screen…I didn’t even mention the fact that Talbot’s hit was completely leagal and no where near Blake’s head and it was unfortunate that he got hurt.

the only reason the results weren’t the same was because Talbot had a second to see it coming (maybe because he thought it would) and he was able to protect himself unlike Steve Moore.

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

If you think the Martin and Bertuzzi were in any way similar you disqualify yourself from a rational discussion.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

other than the result it was very similar…If you aren’t looking through blue and orange glasses. Almost every commentator who threw in their two cents had something along those lines to say about it – but they all hate the Islanders for giving their favorite team a great chance at two points everytime they play right?

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Coming dangerously close to invoking Godwin’s Law…

(damn, I think I just did)

by elesias on Mar 4, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

dammit you got me! lol

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

or you could also say...

They were very similar because you’re looking through media glasses, or black and gold (till dead and cold) glasses. Stop accusing us of hometown bias while pretending you’re King Objectivity here. Look at how each thing happened.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i actually had a pair of “everyone elses glasses other than the islander fans” I just bought them…there nice

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

2 cents proves talk is cheap

That’s the problem, with hacks that don’t pay attention. Go to a neutral source like Bob Duff of the Windsor Sun for an accurate account of the Martin incident. Or how about Bob McKenzie on the reality of the Gillies hit. You want to be a fanboy go ahead.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

EXACTLY

He saw it coming because Martin was trying to turn him around. He knew Martin was there the whole time. Martin didn’t slug him blindside. Talbot had the opportunity to protect himself because of how Martin approached him. As I said before – it was different from beginning to end.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

it really wasnt but ill agree to disagree…do you agree that what Martin did was in fact against hockey code – fighting someone without squaring up and dropping the gloves??

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

yes I will

Nobody’s arguing that what he did was perfectly above-board. He let the emotions of the night get the better of him. But everyone acted as if that night proved the Isles to be a pack of skinheads or something. It was overblown media hyperbole.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Against the code is being chicken shit when challenged to man up.

Do we agree on that? It is also against the code to sucker punch a player with your glove on. Do we agree on that one too?

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, if I were Talbot I would have dropped the gloves with Martin (if he actually did know it was coming) he did drop them two other times that game IIRC so that is why I don’t think he knew that Martin was going to assault him

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

So we agree Staal should not have had his one game suspension rescinded.

I’m glad you are being objective and want equal punishment throughout the league.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Since i dont read or post here you wouldnt know that i thought Stall should have recieved his game for the punch to the rags

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

You would also have read that I was against Gillies for his actions on Tancradi as well.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait

So you’re saying fans of the same team can have different opinions and different takes on the same situation? And that there is nuance to viewpoints and fanbases that can’t be summed up in one-sentence trolling comments?

I wouldn’t have pegged you for that, based on your first day at this site and your lovely trolling opening.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Talbot didn't drop them

…until the rest of his team was dropping them — some would say, until the rest of his team was fighting his battles for him.

His is the same deal as Clutterbuck: You can’t keep delivering borderline hits (and by borderline, I mean some are legal, some aren’t, many are on the line) and then keep refusing to fight. Eventually your teammates have to deal with what you started.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t remember it that way but what does it matter…he dropped them TWICE. Trust me Talbo’s not afraid to take an ass whoppen – he dropped his gloves with Carcillo in the P.O. (thing at the end of the year to try and win shiney trophy – I know it’s been a while) and he has no business fighting the much bigger Carcillo…it turned the game around and the rest is history.

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

It matters

Because if Talbot takes care of his side earlier, maybe that game doesn’t get out of hand. National media who did not actually see the game act like the Isles came out for blood from the opening whistle, when that is hardly the case.

You sound like you watch a lot of hockey, I’m sure you know when a guy doesn’t answer the bell long enough, his teammates start to suffer the consequences.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Yawn as you say…that is pretty much what happened

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Missing part one - Talbot Slashes Koskinen as he skates by, then Martin engages Talbot

Everyone keeps going back to Comeau, if he doesn’t slash Koskinen, Martin doesn’t engage Talbot right then and there.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

for a team that wanted retribution on a goalie (who was the backup) for LAUGHING i wouldnt put anything past any of them…

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Again, you're reading the narrative your own fans/announcers created

If you think what happened during the second half of that game was all about Johnson’s punch (or laugh), then you’re guilty of what you accuse “99.9%” of the people here.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

mike millbury

Hypocrite of the year award, sorry I forgot , you’ll have to wait till next season – its already been awarded to Mario!

by altosax on Mar 3, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Lets get one thing staright MM is an A..HOLE

WAS one, IS one and WILL always be one. I am still shoked Jeromey Roeneck never punched his lights out on the NBC broadcasts, you could tell he soooo, wanted to!

by Russel Ginart on Mar 3, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I was so hoping

That JR would replace MM full time. JR actually has a clue about todays hockey players/game

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 3, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

JR called Grabs the fastest skater he's ever seen

Penguins @ Islanders, Friday, February 11 2011: In union we made our final stand..... They started this, we say when it stops.

by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Mar 3, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

lets get another thing straight.

Lets call him Mike Milbury, cause we frequently refer to Matt Moulson as MM. Don’t wanna call Moulson and Milbury MM lol. Milbury is to big of a douche. God that guy is an idiot. How do him and Millen in the NFL have jobs as analysts. Whats the pre req, you have to be a terrible gm and destroy your team?

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

he got me so annoyed

I forgot to refer to him with some variation of He Who Has No Personal Designation.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Then there's always the confusion with Martin

So I go with MMM for Mighty Matt Moulson.

You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?

by Anarcurt on Mar 3, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Youre forgeting people calling him "Mad Mike" Millbury?

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Oy

I also use MMM when talking about HWSNBN

by Dorfer on Mar 3, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Very true.

Why not refer to him as “VI” as in his famous “Village Idiot” comment?

by O.Bender on Mar 3, 2011 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That’s not a bad idea.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if say....Blake Comeau made that hit on Clutterfuck, would the league have explosed into a media frenzy today. Would there be a meeting?

NOOOO!..probably would have been a 2 minute penalty for roughing. This is the NHL handing out justice because of a name, not because of the actual infraction. I’m all for stiffer penalties for repeat offenders, but only when they ACTUALLY do something that requires suspension!

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

If it was Comeau, NO

WHY Gilles then? In Collins world “he wears an Islanders sweater.”

by Russel Ginart on Mar 3, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

in this case it's not the sweater

It’s the prior offense. Trevor Gillies’ Suspension was ejected from this game.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, thats my point

It’s not the Islanders sweater, its the name. Gillies, is getting suspended because he’s Gillies, but the fact of the matter is, the infraction itself, wasn’t that bad of a play

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

WASN'T OKPOSOS'S

goal just FREAKIN" AWESOME?? Oh, sorry, I wandered into the wrong room.
Actually, I no longer care about NHL ‘discipline’. Catholic school discipline was SO much tougher.

Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
LHH: Where venting your spleen is not just encouraged but expected...

by upstateislesfan on Mar 3, 2011 2:15 PM EST reply actions  

I got the scars to second that

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

YEAH

Colin has nothing on either the nuns or the Irish Christian Brothers that taught me. They could deal out some TOUGH LOVE, alright.

Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
LHH: Where venting your spleen is not just encouraged but expected...

by upstateislesfan on Mar 3, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I would fully support replacing Colin Campbell with a bunch of nuns

I would suspect that they would be more fair and just than Colin Campbell, plus strike fear in every offending hockey players’ hearts.

by Dougtone on Mar 3, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, just imagine the punishments!

Rulers to the knuckles, fanny-whacker paddles to the arse, standing tip-toe arms out inches from a wall without touching, thumb gouging in the elbow socket, finger in the ear…

…sigh…sniff…Well great, there goes 20 years of therapy down the drain.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Nuns

The nuns would probably also make someone give 50 Hail Mary prayers to go with that two minute penalty for hooking.

by Dougtone on Mar 3, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

AMEN, BROTHERS, AMEN!!!

Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
LHH: Where venting your spleen is not just encouraged but expected...

by upstateislesfan on Mar 4, 2011 7:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't see the play,

but did clusternuts see TG coming? If he didn’t, I just wish that TG would have stopped, turned clusterbuck around, and pummeled him while he was looking.

I’m not a fan of any hockey “motion” when the other guy isn’t looking, especially near the boards.

I completely understand the need for TG on the team, and I know all about how we’ve been beaten like redheaded stepchildren for so many years. But I just wish he would have stopped, grabbed him, and then done what he had to have done IF and only IF the guy was turned the other way.

Thank you Matt Moulson!
It doesn't hurt being an Islander fan....but it sure hurts playing for them...get well soon, um, everybody....

by CharlieIsles on Mar 3, 2011 2:42 PM EST reply actions  

that's just the thing

If Gillies does that, he gets the instigator, the 2+5+10. He’s fairly well up the creek either way. He’s can only nail him and hope he doesn’t catch him in the mug.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

You’re right.

Thank you Matt Moulson!
It doesn't hurt being an Islander fan....but it sure hurts playing for them...get well soon, um, everybody....

by CharlieIsles on Mar 3, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Cal Clutterbuck's intent

What do you think was going on in his head when he decided to check an Islander from behind into the boards (which he did receive a penalty for)……With the Islanders 230 lbs 6’3" enforcer Gillies 20 feet away from him?

Was he looking to mix things up with Gillies? Is he prone to mental lapses? or is he the hit and run type (ala Dion Phenuf)?

This hasn’t entered the debate but wouldn’t that qualify as a meathead decision mad mike?

by neologizer on Mar 3, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't Keith "The Meathead" Jones who tossed that insult?

I’m not trying to split hairs, just want to keep the idiots right. Keith Jones = meathead, Mad Mike = talentless, thug who once went into the stands to attack fans… haha, I hate them both. TSN and VS is worse off with these blowhards.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 3, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

blow hards

At least they do THAT well!

by Russel Ginart on Mar 3, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Right!

This reminds me about this barfight I witnessed. Some guy smacks this girl for insulting him. Her boyfriend knocks him out with one punch friends start a brawl and the cops get called. Cop sorts out the stories and tells the guy who smacked the girl and his friends to get the F out otherwise he’ll arrest him. Cop does nothing happened to the guy who punched him out.

That Street cop had more sense about how to keep order then Meathead jones, shoe to the head Mad Mike or think with my Colon Cambell

by neologizer on Mar 3, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

since i'm not able to ...

always fully read or even scan this site all the time, i don’t know if anyone has noted this piece about Probert yet or not, but it definitely applies to the head-injury discussion and may affect league rulings and policy:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/03/bob-probert-discovered-to-have-degenerative-brain-disease/related

by dose on Mar 3, 2011 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

Read that.

Of course fighting as much as he did, is going to lead to brain injury over the course of a lifetime, ask boxers. But I’m interested, and they’ll never find out, just how much the hockey had to do with the brain injury, and not just the fighting. I mean he did die for the drugs he put into his body, not the brain trauma, but i’m sure it didn’t help. Good article though

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Probert's a tough case

A lifetime of punch-and-be-punched was bad for him. Having a substance abuse problem was bad for him. These things were known before scientists began to study his brain tissues. It’s actually not surprising that he had a degenerative brain disorder. They’re going to have to look a lot harder into how much of that came from the fighting, how much from the drinking, how much from concussions… it’s early to tell anything for sure.

One thing I do notice, though – this article talks as if Probert got all his concussions because he was a fighter. I’m positive that it was a contribution, but a guy can suffer multiple concussions a lot of ways. None of the NFL guys they mentioned were brawling during football games. It was all accumulated impact, low-grade, from play after play after play. That’s why the scientist talked about how much the actual course of the game may have contributed to Probert’s condition. How likely is it that a guy throwing or absorbing 150 hits a year is going to have a problem? That to me is the real worry here.

His brain, and Dave Duerson’s, and others, will hopefully reveal some definitive answers before we have more samples to study.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Quite timely

Another reason the NHL should be on this waaaay beyond Gillies. Puck Daddy included a similar story (naturally Crosby-focused in a Pittsburgh mag) with the following quote:

“The scientific data is troubling if not terrifying. Unlike Steckel, the NHL can’t claim that they didn’t see it coming. If the trend continues, aging NHL players will face the same grim fate as the NFL’s boomers. Under current NHL rules, Crosby will be in serious danger when he returns to the ice. He will be a target.”
…which is probably true, the way the game is now. And here’s what I’d note, and why this all falls back on the NHL, and where it all goes back to mikb’s point:
.
Which type of player is it that would target Crosby? Not Gillies — he’s only out there to deliver justice/revenge for transgressions (over-the-top revenge, but revenge nonetheless). What type of Cooke-ian player is it that would target Crosby? The same players whose continued survival make teams get hired hands like Gillies.
.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly this.

Crack down on the dirtbags and the game will be cleaner; the goons will naturally follow unless they also have some actual hockey skill. Quality of game goes up, players are safer – bi-winning!

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Great point.

While the idiots on TSN and VS want fans to believe that it’s “goons” like Gillies, Martin, Haley and Konopka are the problem with the injuries to players, they completely ignore the guys who “play with an edge” and irresponsible hits that those players inflict on others.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 3, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This was well put

and makes total sense, which lets you know right away that Colin Campbell won’t be sharing the same point of view. In all honesty, I’ve seen far worse happen to the Islanders players this year and nothing in a way of discipline has happened. It was a checkaway from the play with the hands high. At worst its a double minor for interference and roughing. The game misconduct for hitting from behind was absurd. Any other discipline coming out of this would be equally absurd.

Intently glued to every COZO

by Chris McNally on Mar 3, 2011 3:08 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

What a fantastic article...

It’s a shame no one in the hockey media will bother to read this well-written and well-thought out piece. No one seems to want to admit that the problem is with the league’s inconsistent and confusing message of punishment. “So, it’s a suspend-able offense if I accidentally injure a guy after he takes a run at one of my guys, but his run is not suspend-able because of his injury?” That’s some catch-22 stuff.

Mike “The Shoe” Milbury will continue to denigrate anything the Isles do to stand up for themselves this season since the narrative is now that the Isles are goons and thugs. Gilles should (when returned from this suspension) be scratched until that Pens game April 8th. I really think one of the Pens dirty scumbags is going to take a run at an Islander with intent to injure. Call me paranoid, but I think the Pens get a wink and nod from the league every time they do something.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 3, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Vigilante Justice or Old time hockey?

Until the NHL’s officials start cracking down on the "thugs" there will always be a need for the enforcer like Trevor Gillies.

If a thug takes a cheap shot at one of my star players, I as a coach would send out my enforcer and tell him "take a shot at one of their star players." I would not tell him to go out after the thug, why? Let’s just say, my star player got laid out for six weeks with a concussion that was caused by that thug. My player is out how many games? The thug gets a 10 game suspension. The thug is back in ten games my star player is still out, hardly fair. An eye-for-an-eye, your thug put out our star for six weeks, Our thug will take out one of your star and put him out for six weeks.

That is why I would send my enforcer after one of the other team’s stars. My enforcer can NOT be accused of retaliation by going after the thug that took out my star player.

by Russel Ginart on Mar 3, 2011 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

Not sure if I'm the thug or the deterent since I know I'm not the star
If a thug takes a cheap shot at one of my star players, I …..“take a shot at one of their star players.”

I’m not too proud to admit that this has always been my approach. When sticked behind the play by a cheap shot artist, I give the opposing teams star player an extra shoulder or face wash and tell him exaclty why. Simple as saying, “You just tell your cheapshot arist that you are going to get hurt if he keeps it up, so keep your head on a swivel”. Great way to see “lively” discussions on the bench between the star and the cheap shot artist. I hate taking it out on someone that is innocent, but that seems to be the only true deterent.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 3, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

but that seems to be the only true deterent.

This is what happens to the three participants in my little scenario:

1. Our star player is OUT for how long (insert name: Crosby, Savard, LaFontaine)
2. The THUG max TEN game suspension, he is back and ready to go after ten games.
3. Our enforcer max TEN games, he is back in ten games……………………OUR star is still OUT!! What team has lost the most here? the team with the star and the enforcer.
NOW add my eye-for-an-eye take on all this:
4. The other team’s star is also OUT……….

by Russel Ginart on Mar 3, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

sadly

The thing is, you can kick Gillies to the curb if you like – but that’s not going to deter the dirtbags. They will be much more happy, and much more reckless, knowing that the Moustache Ride has been permanently closed. And you’re not keeping teams from trying to replace a guy like Gillies with another guy like him. If he gets a lengthy suspension, what does the team lose? A guy who provides no offensive or defensive value, with dozens of readily-available players just like him who would like a shot.

OR – the team replaces Gillies with a guy who can hit, fight, and do other things, a guy like they hope Martin will be, or a guy like Haley already was for Bridgeport this season.

Net effect – best-case scenario, BUBKES. Worst-case scenario, more out-of-control play, more ugly-looking incidents from rent-a-goons, more cosmetic lengthy bans that ultimately change nothing.

That’s on the league. That’s not on the teams that rent the goons. If I’m Mysterious Owner X, I look at the league as it is today and say, “My stars are getting injured by cheap shots. That $100,000 fine is an expensive insurance premium to protect my multi-million dollar investments, so they can be in my lineup, fill my arena, and win us some playoff games.” Hell, one of the main reasons I would LOVE to see Mark Cuban buy a franchise is that he WOULD say this, and embarrass Bettman and Company enough to maybe do something effective that will actually clean up the sport, rather than something designed to help them avoid thinking about it while it gets worse under their mismanagement.

Bottom line? I love the esprit de corps and the willing defense. I admire a guy like Konopka or Gillies for risking their physical safety to square off in defense of their teammates. If and when lines get crossed, I absolutely favor just discipline. A headline like “A Defense of Trevor Gillies” is really far short of my point. I’m not so much defending that he crossed the line, I just can’t get behind the excessive high-horse-riding, the randomness, and the misplaced outrage. Hockey will be better off when nobody needs to crack skulls to protect a teammate; the league needs to eliminate that need. They won’t do it by throwing the book at Gillies.

And this applies, btw, to any team. The thing that got to me about the Penguins fans was their immediate amnesia over why they employ the players they do to protect Sid Crosby. None of us would have an objection to a guy like Eric Cairns, for example, on their roster. He’s a good deterrent. But he’s there to protect Crosby – NOT Cooke. Having Cooke and Talbot running guys all over the ice is bush league, and the NHL should be stopping THAT. If Minny had played Pittsburgh last night, and Clutterbuck boarded Tyler Kennedy, and Eric Godard knocked him on his ass – it would be the same thing. Punish the initial dangerous hit. Do it consistently and promptly. Then, guys like Godard (or Gillies) become far less necessary.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Personally,

I took a different route. I never “targeted” any other player when I played soccer. {There was no hockey in Oklahoma in the 70’s} My teams goalie was put out of a state qualifier by a dirty slide tackle. 4 broken ribs, and a fractured leg. I did NOT go after him. However, I did not avoid running over him or any of his teammates, but I did not attempt to retaliate.
No pads in soccer, and a 4’11" kid running into someone 6’2" at full speed is painful, or so I was told… I don’t like the retaliation game, but I don’t blame someone for doing it either.

Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...

by burpchelischili on Mar 3, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your approach

It is something I adopted a few seasons ago in my rec leagues. Being one of the smaller/lighter as well as top line forwards on my team I am always a target for the goons on the other teams. We have a few real dirty guys in the league and they all seem to be 4 inches taller and 50lbs heavier than me at a minimum. When a cheap shot was delivered I would return in kind, fight, etc. Then I realized, “why the heck am I risking injury against these goons twice my size?”. From that point on I told myself and my teammates that any time a goon on another team took a cheap shot I was going to return the favor on one of their top forwards. Often, I will actually tell the opposing forward why I did it! Hopefully they will eventually tire of playing on the same team as a dbag.

I watch hockey because I love the game...I watch the Islanders because I hate myself. ~JPinVA

by NYI_22 on Mar 3, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Done Mike...

Pretty much sums it up!
Jane Austen was a nice touch. this team is surely torn between pride and prejudice.

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Mar 3, 2011 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

This tweet just made me cry laughing

Capuanos_Hair Not Jack Capuano

Guys felt bad for Gillies so got him a pet rabbit like Hoppy. Kid was so touched. Gave it a big hug. It’s been “sleeping” since. #Isles

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 3, 2011 5:40 PM EST reply actions  

LOL...that's a beauty!

I needed that.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 3, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahahahahahaha

Why aren’t I following Caps’ Hair?

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I need a link

I can’t find capuanos_hair on there

Native LI'er living in the land of Black & Gold.

by JW1970 on Mar 3, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

NM.....

found it by searching for Jack

Native LI'er living in the land of Black & Gold.

by JW1970 on Mar 3, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

gillies is in a bad spot here...

they are gonna stick it so far up his a-s its gonna look like some type of freaky euro porn..
the next thing matt cooke does thats dirty, better put him in the range of what ever gillies gets this time..

i hope im wrong

by LETS GO ISLANDERS!!! on Mar 3, 2011 6:08 PM EST reply actions  

ohh

i love how they never mention that clutterbuck got 2min for boarding dibo, like thats not a dirty hit

nhl on the fly sucks the big one.

i want everyone to hate the iles bc it will make it that much sweeter when they take it to the next level…
LETS GO ISLANDERS !!!!~~~~~SCREW THE HATERS

by LETS GO ISLANDERS!!! on Mar 3, 2011 6:15 PM EST reply actions  

Gillies will probably get suspending and probably shouldn't

Gillies arms are up high on the hit. He doesn’t elbow Clusterfuck in the head though. His elbows are into Clusterfuck’s shoulder. Gillies’ left hand in in Clusterfuck’s face but it’s kinda just there. More of a face wash than a push.

Gillies probably should have gotten two for roughing tops on the play. His arms are up high but it’s not really a headshot. You see hits like this two or three times a game and the most they get are two minutes.

by Chickendirt on Mar 3, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

People defend Trevor Gillies’ presence on the Isles roster as a necessary precaution against the bevy of cheap shots taken against Okposo (Phaneuf), John Tavares (Pronger and others), Frans Neilsen (Mike Mottau), Blake Comeau (Talbot), and Rick DiPietro (Cooke).
Rule 48 – ostensibly to protect players from concussion – is in its own way just making things worse, because again the NHL is not addressing the problem, only the appearance. Not that the rule iteslf is bad, mind you… in theory. But it didn’t keep Marc Savard safe. It didn’t keep Sidney Crosby safe. It didn’t keep Comeau safe. NONE OF THOSE HITS WERE PENALIZED IN ANY WAY.

How does the Talbot hit on Comeau get put into the same category as the Cooke hit on Savard and Gillies hits on Tangradi/Clutterbuck? Talbot’s hit was a clean, hard hockey hit. It sucks that Comeau got hurt, it really does and I feel for you guys, but the hit was clean.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions  

Just because no penalty was called

does not make it clean. It was from behind.

by IslesinAZ on Mar 3, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It was side-to-side (Talbot’s hip to Comeau’s shoulder, to be exact).

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I can only speak for myself, I played for years and I knew when someone is defenseless.

It takes a feel HERO to follow through on the hit. This is their lively hood. No excuses for Talbot, aka Turtle Or Coward Cooke.

by bossy2219 on Mar 3, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

So the problem is that he hit Comeau too hard?

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Comeau had just dished the puck, and was hit side-to-side. Are you implying that shoulder-to-shoulder open ice hits right after you shoot/pass/dump the puck are dirty?

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I honestly don't understand what your doing in here.

No Islander fan thinks the hit was clean. All Pens fans think the hit was clean. He hit one of our players, that player got hurt. We wanted retaltion for hits the whole year that have ended in our players being hurt. We got it.

by Meet Me at the Lighthouse on Mar 3, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just asking why the hit on Talbot was dirty enough to be lumped in with the headshots. Rather than follow the black and white “No Islander fan thinks the hit was clean. All Pens fans think the hit was clean” policy, I wanted to ask you guys why “no Islander fan thinks the hit was clean.” I understand it’s easy to be biased, but I wanted to try and see things from your perspective.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

it's a fair question.

I wrote the thing, so I’ll answer for myself here.

I wasn’t trying to say all of those hits were exactly the same degree of badness. Talbot/Comeau is just one of many examples where Islanders wound up getting hurt by bad hits. Talbot’s, if you will, was the closest to that borderline – one skate dragging that line to make it “onside” by the rules. But if you like, we can take that example out and use a half-dozen others that were worse but luckily didn’t result in injuries. Heck, you can look at a half-dozen examples when Isles have been given phantom penalties, or have been given ten minutes misconduct for protesting no-calls.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough, I see what you were going for. I also see how I could’ve seemed like a troll, so I apologize for that.

I do agree with a lot of the points you make (and the article is very well written, by the way). Rule 48 simply does not work, and the instigator rule is doing much more harm than good. But, then, simply removing the instigator rule doesn’t remedy the original problem: (as somebody else on here mentioned) if goon X hits John Tavares in the head and gives him a concussion, and you send out goon Y to beat the hell out of goon X, you still lose Tavares. Sure, you get some retribution, but you still lose in the long run. It might reduce the number of cheap shots, but it won’t eliminate it. And I don’t feel that changing Rule 48/adding new rules will do much either. The game moves so fast, it’s virtually impossible to properly referee, hence, you get what we have now: phantom calls on clean plays and non-calls on dirty plays. It’s completely random what you’re going to get from any play.

Personally, I feel that we need to take a look at the equipment, and remove some of the armor the players wear, but that’s an entire ball of wax all to itself. The only thing anyone can conclude is that it’s a really complicated situation with no real clear solution.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Equipment can only do so much, look at the nfl and their concussion/injury problems. Completely terrible.

I’d just go ahead with harsher punishments for offenders and punishing “every” offender who throws a head shot, whether they were penalized for it or not in that game. Once the league does that, and adds a 2 or 3 strike rule and your out of the nhl for good, then the league will be fixed from these problems going forward. Until then, we just have to self-police as you stated which isn’t close to solving the problem but helps none the less.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Including my own players. I would love for all the dirty play gone from the game.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. I love Matt Cooke’s tenacity and his play on the penalty kill, but goddammit am I getting tired of seeing him do something stupid every twenty games. At this point, I would not be sad to see him go.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I feel knowledgable pens fans feel the same way. And I wouldn't make a peep if Gillies was banned for his tangradi head hit. This stuff just can't happen for the protection and quality of life(so to speak) of the players moving forward. Savard could be

miserable for the rest of his life from that one hit. That shouldn’t happen ever again to anyone, especially without severe consequences.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s exactly what it’s about—nobody should have to turn out like Savard, or Primeau, or Lindros. That should be the number one priority here.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

And thanks for playing nice in the board. We love when other teams’ fans have something to contribute. Come back anytime!

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I agree that stiffer penalties would help a lot. Hits to the head have gotten, like, four/five games and that’s it. A shoulder to the head needs to be at least ten for the first offense, and grow rapidly from there. I’d like to see stiffer penalties in conjunction with making the equipment softer—reduce hits to the head while reducing injuries caused by hits to the head.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Good ideas. 10gms is a good start, I might even suggest 15gms for a 1st offense because it sends more of a message then 10gms. The severity of damage these head hits do shouldn't be undermined. Crosby's career could be altered because of this. Savard's

career is over. Things like this should be punished hard.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the definition of "bodycheck" needs to evolve

Especially given the evolving understanding of head injuries. “Finishing your check” and “keep your head up” are very vague terms that the speed and size of today’s players makes too vague.

Personally, I thought and still think Talbot’s hit was late (Comeau had gotten rid of the puck, and was already turning back into his own zone), but I understand why a Pens fan does not. It’s definitely borderline. Maybe it’s okay in 1988, when guys were still small and approaching each other at oil tanker in the harbor speeds, but today I think that old mentality — “but he just had the puck!” doesn’t work, not when players are taking full speed runs at guys without the puck.

But then I’ll always say “bodychecking” means “body” — hip or shoulder only — and its intent is to separate man from puck, not to lay the hurt on a guy under the rationale that he recently had the puck.

(Separately, I also confess I don’t really have much patience for players who constantly hit on that “edge” but will not fight when challenged. I’m not a fan of fighting and think fights after clean hits are a nuisance, but since it’s here, I don’t think you can play the edge and then hide behind a disinclination to fight. I find Talbot and Clutterbuck to be players like that. Hearing Bob Errey say, “Oh here we go, Haley sought out Talbot” when in fact Talbot bearhugged Haley to pull him out of the scrum made me sick. Then for Errey to act like middleweight Haley is some massive enforcer and Talbot needed to just hang on for survival…well that gets to a big part of what I think the problem is. I know you don’t represent Talbot or Errey; I’m just ’fessing up where my perspective comes from.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions  

My thought

Is that, yes, by letter of the law, Talbot’s hit wasn’t exactly “illegal”, but I feel like it was dirty. I don’t think you’d find many players in the league that would be okay with GETTING hit like that, but despite understanding that at this time it is legal.

I think most fans (over here at least) would like to see all hits from behind taken out of the game. I mean, there is just too much chance of injury from the whiplash, and if you want to talk about vulnerable, there is no worse position to be in than having your back to a hit.

So while I can agree that by current letter of the law, Talbot was within the rules and shouldn’t have been suspended. But I would certainly want the opportunity to kick that guys ass (which MT allegedly denied Comeau at the time) or one of my teamates to lay him out. you can’t tell me that if Sid was hit like that, regardless of legality, you wouldn’t want somebody out there looking out for him. And I think what people need to realize also, is that just because we suck doesn’t mean our players don’t have value. Comeau to us is like Kunitz for you guys.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough, I see your point. I understood it would piss you guys off, I just questioned putting Talbot’s name in with the cheap-shot artists.

you can’t tell me that if Sid was hit like that, regardless of legality, you wouldn’t want somebody out there looking out for him

To be honest, I was against the whole “kill Steckel” crowd. I just wanted to outscore them (but instead we got our asses beat). All I could think of was Boston coming out fired up to kill Cooke, then rolling over for us and giving up the game.

And I think what people need to realize also, is that just because we suck doesn’t mean our players don’t have value. Comeau to us is like Kunitz for you guys.

Hey, now, it wasn’t that long ago we had Rico Fata and Milan Kraft on our top line. Trust me, I see the value in your players.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

This
Hey, now, it wasn’t that long ago we had Rico Fata and Milan Kraft on our top line. Trust me, I see the value in your players.

You my friend are a rare breed. And I think this is the difference between someone who understands and follows hockey as opposed to someone jumping on a bandwagon after seeing one instance. What happened here is that the Isles are/were and irrelevant afterthought for most in the NHL. The first real exposure they got was this (outside of just the same old bad management bad player random quips). Now, despite never having been a “dirty” team all of a sudden, we’re the scourge of the NHL. (we didn’t carry goons in forever and it was even reported in a couple of circles that Wang didn’t allow it…and to me, I thought we were too passive and allowed our team to be bullied)

Of course the response against the Pens was over the top…especially the Gillies Tangradi thing. But up until that sequence I was fine with what went downFor what it’s worth, I never really viewed Talbot as a dirty player, but even a non-dirty player can have a dirty (yet legal) hit.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It is unfortunate, as you guys have lots of young, skilled players (in fact, you’re like a combination of the 06/07 and 07/08 Penguins—a young developing team in need of a few solid veteran pieces to make some noise), but all of the talking heads are completely ignoring that to focus on one guy who got out of hand a couple of times. But, really, can you depend on the media to do much else?

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yup... media is predictable

My first headline was “Isles Pride and Media Prejudice.” Not sure why I changed it, now that I think of it. And thanks for your kind words about the article. I hoped that I got the point across – to me the current reaction is just so out-of-scale to reality. Far worse has been done with sad hand-wringing from the league, instead of a policy with teeth, aimed at the actual wrongdoers. And the media would give us that “old time hockey” shtick and nothing would change.

Now, all of a sudden the league’s designated punchline punches back, and they’re history’s greatest villains? What a total load that is.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry for my lack of collapsables titles, we hardly use them over there
Now, all of a sudden the league’s designated punchline punches back, and they’re history’s greatest villains? What a total load that is.

They stumbled upon a golden nugget: a guy who fits the bill of a “goon” (at least statistically, I must admit I haven’t watched Gillies play enough games to say much else), who plays in a smaller market and likely won’t every become a superstar, that the league can punish while the media dances and sings about how great the NHL is for protecting its players. It’s a smokeshow.

At this point, the best thing for Gillies would probably be to get suspended for the remainder of the season—that way, everyone forgets about him during the offseason, and he can come back to little fanfare. If he comes back before the end of the season, a circus will follow him around, and people will cry for a suspension every time he looks at someone sideways.

by Hatt the Moople on Mar 3, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's another example of why this shit exists

Taylor Hall vs Derek Dorsett

Now, early on, it looks like Hall hits a Jacket player and knocks the stick out of his hands. Now, if the whistle is blown there, nothing right. But, Dorset gets involved, chases Hall, slashes him, pushes him, comes in high until Hall fights him. Now, hall probably has a sprained whatever, and ruins a promising rookie season.

Refs make calls, problem solved, but they let it escalate, and now someone’s injured. I’ll bet people are calling for Jacket blood as we speak, and “someone has to protect Taylor Hall”. I really want to sit back and see how this plays out.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Incidentally

I think Gillies beat the shit out of him for the same type of thing on JT at the end of last season.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Gillies beat the crap out of Boll on the jackets for a similar thing.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahh

I knew it was a jacket..

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just asking why the hit on Talbot was dirty enough to be lumped in with the headshots.

It is lumped in with “blindside hits” because THATS WHAT IT WAS.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd. A blindside hit to a player without the puck near his head is dangerous no matter what way you look at it. End of discussion.

Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.

by OzzyFan on Mar 3, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Talbot’s hit was a clean, hard hockey hit. It sucks that Comeau got hurt, it really does and I feel for you guys, but the hit was clean.

It was as clean as Trevors hit.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Lessons Learned from my Father

Dad; if you hit someone, then you will get hit back and I’ll give a spanking as well.
BUT; if someone hits you, you hit back and keep hitting back until you decide what’s even.
They will never hit you again.
The cheap shot artists will disappear quickly, this comes in two ways 1) players make them pay for the indiscretions and 2)the NHL takes action each time progressively with incident.
Then each team will have a Clark Gilles and no need for Trevor Gilles.

by bossy2219 on Mar 3, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

I'm not going to sit here an pretend that Gillies is innocent in all of this...

His intentions were right, trying to stand up for a rookie in only his 2nd game, however he did make contact with the head of Clutterbuck and for that he must face the consequences. Unfortunately, with the state of NHL justice being what it is, Gillies will face a much harsher penalty then most players would.

Too all those saying he should be banned from the league- your ignorance is astonishing. If we were to ban him for this act then we might as well ban Cooke. What he did was far worse- there is a good chance Savard will never play again. While we’re at it lets ban Boogard. He’s good for nothing with only 1 goal in 2 years or so? Steve Downie should have no place in the NHL for his previous actions. It only took about 3 major suspensions to get the message. I don’t really think I have to mention Bertuzzi because if anyone should have gotten banned it is this man, yet even he has shown that you can change. Hell let’s ban Crosby too, I mean he punches fellow players in the balls!

Shit happens in the heat of the moment, it’s just a shame that these acts are the ones that get all the media attention and not the stellar effort put forth by a group of youngsters showing that they are not the same ‘doormats’ that lost 19 of 20.

IT’S US AGAINST THE WORLD!!!

by 54_Fighting on Mar 3, 2011 8:35 PM EST reply actions  

I think a good way to clean up the game (and eliminate ties/shoot outs)...

Simple: Double Jeopardy penalties for hits adjudged to be egregious or excessive:

1. The player drawing the penalty is given an automatic game misconduct and match penalty.

2. An automatic penalty shot is awarded to the team of the player who has been fouled.

3. The team of the player committing the infraction is assessed a 2-5 minute major penalty, to be served by a player selected by the coach of the team against which the penalty was committed.

If the player converts on the penalty shot, the major is assessed as a 2 minute major, standard major power play rules apply.

If the player fails to convert on the penalty shot, a full 5 minute major is awarded, standard major applied.

Expansion of the penalty shot and Double Jeopardy for misconduct/egregious hits could solve a lot of problems.

Guys who put their signature on Matt Cooke's paycheck every week should keep their f'n teeth together when it comes time to lecture other teams on "clean play".

by BrassBonanza10 on Mar 3, 2011 8:43 PM EST reply actions  

This
3. The team of the player committing the infraction is assessed a 2-5 minute major penalty, to be served by a player selected by the coach of the team against which the penalty was committed.

Is an interesting idea…Imagine the contract money and the issues if a guy like Crosby ends up missing 10 minutes of some key games because Cooke runs somebody. Imagine if Ovechkin gets thrown out and you get to sit Backstrom in the box to serve…it is interesting…but I’m sure the NHLPA would have a problem with it because it could impact other player’s livelihood…

But to me, that’s why I think it would work, and would be poetic since this crap affects other player’s livelihood to begin with.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 3, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

My thinking is, strategically the player the coach picks to serve the penalty in the box...

…would be the opponents best player on the PK, to maximize the advantage.
 

Guys who put their signature on Matt Cooke's paycheck every week should keep their f'n teeth together when it comes time to lecture other teams on "clean play".

by BrassBonanza10 on Mar 4, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting ideas

But it would still require consistent referees.

And the bit about the opposing coach selecting the player may be a bit too quirky as well – not sure if that would be too popular with the top teams.

But very creative, I must say.

by Paumanok on Mar 3, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then no idea will work

because as long as Colon Campbell is in charge, the inconsistencies will continue

James T Paulson

by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 3, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, it would (probably) require a seperate group of officials altogether.

They’re job would be to sit in a booth and monitor every hit and they’d have the power to stop play at anytime they see a hit they feel merits the call.

If the refs won’t be consistent, hire guys who’s sole function is to make the calls the refs won’t.

The refs will hate it, but they can go screw; their inconsistency is what’s brought us to this point to begin with.

As to the top teams, screw them too. This is about ensuring the safety of the players (and eliminating ties/shoot outs) not catering to the best teams in the league’s wants and desires.

They want to stay on top, they get with the program and stop employing thugs that lose games for them by being cement heads.

Guys who put their signature on Matt Cooke's paycheck every week should keep their f'n teeth together when it comes time to lecture other teams on "clean play".

by BrassBonanza10 on Mar 4, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Thus spake Mike Milbury:
The Islanders’ general manager, the Islanders’ coach, the the Islanders’ owner have to figure this out. They’ve embarrassed themselves here one time too many.

Funny, I could have sworn he was talking about his tenure on the Island.

You cannot stop Jeremy Colliton. You can only hope to recall him. --Dom, LHH

by isles732 on Mar 3, 2011 8:46 PM EST reply actions  

Fuck you, Mike.
Seriously.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wouldn't give up Gillies for so little.

Milbury has to be left on a deserted island in the Pacific. Also, Keith Jones has to have his mouth sewn shut and I get to shave Brian Engblom’s hair off.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 3, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Banish Milbury Napoleon-style

before he tries to come back and take over the Islanders. Again.

Wow, history and Jane Austen. Who says LHH isn’t the best?

You cannot stop Jeremy Colliton. You can only hope to recall him. --Dom, LHH

by isles732 on Mar 3, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

wait, wha ---- OHHH

Metal Chick – remember MY name is Mike too! I admit I had a near spit-take before I realized you were firing at Ex-Isles GM Who Beclowns Himself on Versus.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL!

Ha, definitely not you! :)

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Milbury talking about and Islanders coach or GM embarrassing himself...

…is like a pile of shit talking about how bad something else stinks.

Guys who put their signature on Matt Cooke's paycheck every week should keep their f'n teeth together when it comes time to lecture other teams on "clean play".

by BrassBonanza10 on Mar 4, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

and he thinks his shit dont stink

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

not all

via Twitter, EJ Hradek: “24 hours late, but I didn’t think T Gillies hit on Clutterbuck was way awful. no worse than the hit Clutterbuck delivered 2 seconds earlier.”

Thanks, EJ. Hope you don’t get exiled like poor Buccigross.

(stick-tap to WebBard for the retweet!)

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

EJ knows as much about hockey as anyone, so its nice to see that he sees it that way

meanwhile other clueless people just spout off at the mouth without knowing what actually happened

James T Paulson

by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 3, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

BRILLIANT

Frontier justice may be less-than-desirable… but the response to it is basically a mob mentality. You’re exactly right – it’s no different. Rec’d like media credibility.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 3, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Max Talbot did it,

"He's serving his 2 game suspension with pride," they'd say. "You need that kind of leadership in the room!"

You cannot stop Jeremy Colliton. You can only hope to recall him. --Dom, LHH

by isles732 on Mar 3, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Headline From the Star Tribune: Cal Clutterbuck Says Trevor Gillies Headhunted Him

New York Islanders forward Trevor Gillies, one of the NHL’s biggest menaces {ed. because he plays so damn much}, returned from a nine-game suspension Wednesday night — then lasted four shifts and 1:51 of ice time before he was kicked out against the Wild.

Link here.

sigh.

by Bri On LI on Mar 3, 2011 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

Hyperbole

is overused.

Second City Hockey, come for the Hockey.
Lighthouse Hockey, come for the Hockey, stay for the the injury report!
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...

by burpchelischili on Mar 3, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

“one of the NHL’s biggest menaces” because he hit a Penguin. And thats the whole explanation, folks… since he never was suspended for anything before that.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 3, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Bravo Mikb

This article hit the bullseye… It’s something we as fans have stated all along.

The first overarching problem with the NHL rule book that is designed to keep the players safe in itself creates the culture that makes it unsafe in the first place.

We as Islander fans know damn well that Trevor Gillies is lucky if he has ECHL level talent. He’s up for one reason only … and that is to enforce (keep teammates safe). I hate that the Islanders had better offensive / defensive forwards in the AHL all season long, and needed to waste a roster spot on a “renagade cop” like Gillies … and the thing is … Gillies comes off like a nice guy in interviews … he just doesn’t have the finesse of a true enforcer like the “real” Gillies … “Jethro” Clark Gillies that is.

Now why would the Islanders need to waste a valuable roster spot with a “thug” to keep them safe … because they (we) have zero faith in the officials and NHL higharchy to keep the Islander players safe… We’ve seen over the past 3 years the young kids get mugged with illegal checks (Like the one against DiBo) … which should of been a 5 minute boarding penalty … not 2.

I’m not even going to excuse Gillies … I know he was coming to the aid of DiBo, and was only a step and a half away from Clutterbuck after CC hit DiBo from behind … His check was a legal check to the side and became illegal the split second his arm rose up above Clutterbuck’s shoulder and hit him in the head. For any other player Gillies would get 2 minutes and the league would review the hit…. By the way … What ever happened with Patrick Stepan after he elbowed Green in the head ON PURPOSE? Did he get suspended? I never heard anything about it … I even looked for it in the papers for 3 days after that game against the Caps…. and Nuthin. Selective justice by Colin Campbell?

The Islanders had another GREAT performance and sound defeat of an opponent washed away by the ugliness of a moment in a game.

Reading other hockey boards and Minnesota boards, they talk about a classless organization that Gary should take away from Wang and move to a more deserved city … because … and I quote one poster from Minni ..“New York is full of mean people” … LOL!! Gotta love that one. How’s this for mean you moron? “You’re an idiot”

I also can’t believe how uneducated most fans are … We as Islander fans know how bad they’ve been … and November was a month to forget … and I know the NHL doesn’t keep standings on a curve (unless you’re counting the OTL/SOL) … but the Islanders have been one of the better teams since the middle of December … and they are only getting better … These Wild fans that post … “I can’t believe we lost to a team that stinks as bad as the Islanders” … must have their heads up their you know whats… The Islanders have beaten a lot of the top 15 teams in the entire NHL this season… Tampa, Pens, Wings, KIngs, Flames, Habs and yes … now the Wild … They’ve had a bunch of tough 1 goal losses to the Caps and Flyers … including OT / SO losses to the Pens, Caps, Flyers, Sharks and Canucks … record be damned …. The Islanders were no push overs this season or easy wins for some of the best teams in the NHL this season.

by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on Mar 3, 2011 11:53 PM EST reply actions  

Splitting hairs, but...
His check was a legal check to the side and became illegal the split second his arm rose up above Clutterbuck’s shoulder and hit him in the head.

The only thing I’d add is that although Gillies’ hit from the side would have been legal in form if his arms hadn’t followed through, it still would have been illegal in practice because the puck wasn’t there. (Clutterbuck wasn’t even winning a puck from DiBo, which speaks to both hits of course.)

Now, to me that’s still an okay response given the rules — you board my guy, I’ll board you — and we’ll take the coincidentals. It sure beats the 10, 5 and 2 that would come with instigating a fight with someone who pretty much avoids fights at all costs (and thus might turtle, and might leave your team short for 5 or even 7).

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 3:09 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Tremendous Job Mikb

And I’m shocked at McKenzie’s take on this, but utterly thrilled that someone actually looked at the circumstances surrounding it and conveyed an educated, practical opinion about it. AMAZING!

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Mar 4, 2011 7:21 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

McKenzie will never directly admonish the people in the league, but he is a straight shooter.

He is one of the few pundits I have absolute respect for and alwasy try to read his take before I become too strident in mine.

As for Milbury, how many time do I have to say it. “If you agree with Mad Mike, in any argument, just shake your head and think how could I have been so wrong?” It is the world’s most simple logic check.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Lesson Learned

for those around the web that are saying Gillies didn’t learn his lesson from the 9 game suspension I beg to differ…this time he didn’t punch a defenseless player after charging, boarding, and elbowing him, and he also didn’t talk shit at said concussed player as he lay on the ice…so i guess he learned something and Yeah trever is a great guy….I wonder where people get there opinions of this guy from….btw who’s poster is Konopka going to take off his wall this time? Brian Bellows?

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

YEAH

C’mon in and troll. Looks like your advanced knowledge of Islander players is being put to good use. Do you perhaps know Trevor personally?? How about Matt Cooke?? I assume you know him so well that you can say without hesitation that he is a wonderful person, too?? You know that expression about glass houses?? Yours has a big hole in it, pal.

Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
LHH: Where venting your spleen is not just encouraged but expected...

by upstateislesfan on Mar 4, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Go out and play in your Matt Cooke jersey, Mark Savard will cheer you on since he is such a respected and admired player.

Or, you can go retro and slip on a nice Ulf Samuelsson jersey, Cam Neely would love that. You might be able to get a nice sit and spin off ebay.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 4, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

enforcers are always fan and teammate favorites

You telling me that you didn’t love Eric Cairns? You don’t love Rupp and Godard? OR for that matter Brett Johnson? His one-punch of RDP got the loudest cheers of the night. Furthermore – your bench LOVED IT. MAF was giggling like he’d just seen Ace Ventura 2 for the first time.

Of course Trevor’s popular. He risks his physical safety at a thankless job. He’s there for his teammates. People snickering that “he’s why no-one will sign on Long Island” is completely a crock. If anything, an enforcer makes it more likely a guy will sign, because he knows someone like Gillies has his back. You think DiBenedetto isn’t skating easier out there knowing that just two games into his Isles career, Gillies sticks up for him? You think Crosby wasn’t thrilled when Mario got him some protection?

And that’s what really gets me about Pens fans regarding this stuff. You guys WERE the Isles five years ago. You had a young superstar getting crippling hits with no retribution. You had a crumbling rink and crummy facilities. You were well-nigh bankrupt and far closer to being relocated than the Isles ever were, or are. All you have to do is sub in “Sid” for “JT”, “the Igloo” for “Nassau Coliseum”, and “2006” for “2011” and all the rest is EXACTLY THE SAME. “Nobody wants to sign there. What a joke franchise! What a dump they play in! No fans, broke owners, lousy record.”

How soon some of you forget. Maybe you should be reading Hatt the Moople’s comments, or Frank and Justin when they were here a few weeks ago, so they can put you some knowledge.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

My memory may be blurred but the one thing that is different between the Pens of ’06 and your Isles is the lack of assaults that we distributed on the ice!!!

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, of course. Clean as the driven snow.

The 2005-06 Penguins featured such noted finesse players and Lady Byng candidates as -

Eric Cairns (27 GP, 1 g, 87 PIM, 5:28 ATOI)
Andre Roy (42 GP, 2 g 1 a, 108 PIM, 5:28 ATOI)
Ryan VandenBussche (20 GP, 1 g, 42 PIM, 4:20 ATOI)
Maxime Talbot (48 PG, 5 g 3 a, 59 PIM, 10:58 ATOI)
Brooks Orpik (64 GP, 2 g 7 a, 124 PIM, 18:50 ATOI)

Not to mention that Sid himself racked up 110 penalty minutes to go with his 102 points.

Yup, nothing to see there. Move along!

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Penalty minutes arent always a result of fighting, elbowing and boarding…you do know that right? Every team has enforcers, most don’t have multiple ones (Konopka, Gillies and Haley)

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah buddy, we had Cairns

We know — he just takes tons of hooking and slashing and high-sticking minors. An angel. Godard, too. Amazing they get so many shifts while racking up mere minor stick fouls.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Haley is our AHL team leader in goals

Konopka is one of the best faceoff men in the league and can PK, and neither are really big enough to be considered ’enforcers" i think
and according to hockeyfights.com
Eric Cairns had 8 fights that year
Andre Roy also had 8 fights
Ryan VandenBussche had 4 fights
Maxime Talbot had 3 (and 1 in the AHL)
Brooks Orprik only had 1, which makes his PIM total awe inspiring, something tells me those werent all just holding penalties

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

most don't have multiple ones

(Konopka, Gillies, Haley) (Cairns, Roy, VandenBussche)

Fixed.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Dude

You have Godard, Asham and Rupp. Who are you kidding? Which one of those guys pots 30 a year?

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 4, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

AND Cooke

and Orpik

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 4, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

you may want to take off your black and gold tinted glasses kiddo

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This was this guy's second comment

…and he’s gone. Sorry folks. I know we all like debate, but the way this place stays sane and functional is when people come into it with respect, as members of a community or rational debaters from other fanbases — i.e., not as someone who starts off his first day with a trolling lecture to get things off his chest.

I’ve found entertaining people who just discovered the site yesterday - and want to carry on yesterday’s debate without actually reading it - only soothes their need to play, not ours. We don’t owe a forum to anyone who has nothing vested in this community and doesn’t bother to read up or treat others with respect.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

At 13 recs and counting

This has got to be the most rec’d post in site history. Cheers, Mike!

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

My question about the whole thing is: where is Mario Lemieux’s outrage about player safety and the league’s handling of it now?

Seems like it’d be a perfect opportunity for him to have said something without coming across like a complete hypocrite.

by elesias on Mar 4, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

do you want him to make statements after every Islander game? I don’t think he has the time or the energy to comment on all the cheapshots throughout the league on every given day…he isn’t God you know, he just played hockey like one.

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

No he should just comment on Penguin games

Talbot attempt to cripple x3, Geno attempt to cripple, Crosby going for the nuts. That’s all we ask. Without Trottier riding shotgun in his waning years Lemieux won nothing.,

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Should have read Cooke attempt to cripple x3. No one ever wants to talk Malkin’s concussive hit on Mitchell either. Very convenient.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Malkin

No, no they sure don’t.

Despite appearances and the ravings of some of the dingleberries who drift in here, I don’t have anything (or didn’t) against the Penguins. I feel bad about the Steckel-Crosby hit. It sucks to lose a star, as we know all too well.

But I’ve also looked at that Steckel hit 20 times and certainly can’t determine that Steckel was going for his head. There was a possession change, Steckel wanted to get up ice right away to join that rush, and Crosby did a U-turn right in front of him. Whether that last fateful move was really a shoulder aimed at the head or an instant-reaction maneuver while trying to get up ice, we can’t say for sure. But personally, in that situation, I wouldn’t be thinking “Get up ice, get up ice—oooh, scratch that, chance to nail Crosby!” It happened so quickly I give Steckel the benefit of the doubt. Certainly not enough evidence to convict him.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it wrong for me to bring a STECKEL FOR MVP sign to the game on April 8?

Not because I hate Crosby, I hate his OT goal against the USA that cost us a gold medal, I hate the NHL’s constant promotion of a guy that has had his personality bled out of him by media speak, I hate the whining like I did Gretzky’s, and he is a generational talent that I wish the Islanders had, but because it gets on my nerves the sanctimonious bull that comes out of Pittsburgh and the NHL.

The Steckel hit was incidental contact and I keep hearing the media refer to it a as blindside hit when trying to portray Steckel (who is an exceptionally clean, honest player, especially for his size) as a bad guy because someone must be blamed for an accident. Even before the Isles-Pens game I thought the histrionics over Steckel were over the top. I have never been a Pens hater since I still have a certain 19 Pens jersey in god awful gold, but the pretention that comes out of an org that was in worse shape than the Islanders less than five seasons ago is mind boggling. It must be all of the band wagon Kool Aid fans in Pittsburgh that think this team came into being in the Crosby lottery.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

VERY WRONG

Seriously – it’d be cruel, and would be seen as tacit approval and celebration of a serious injury. The least of the reasons NOT to do this is the kind of discredit it would bring to the Islanders organization and its fans – and that’s a big enough reason. But to look like you’re happy about what happened to Sid Crosby? That would be ugly. That’s the sort of thing that would cause fights in the stands.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right, I just let my frustration get the best of me.

That’s why I rather vent here, than provoke someone in person. Can I bring a turtle shell with 17 painted on it in case Talbot needs protection?

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

now that would be hilarious

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

seconded

There you go!

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No. But if his true motives of his statements after the Islanders/Penguins game with all the shenanigans were to protect player safety and the league’s failure to properly address it as he stated, it’d be an ideal time for him to restate his sentiments now that Gillies came back from a suspension and has likely earned himself another one… wouldn’t it?

by elesias on Mar 4, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I am sure that would go over well, seeing that he only made one comment about the league lately here is what would be said

Mario is whiny pussy like sid
Mario is out to get our Islanders

PLEASE tell me you wouldnt say these two things had Mario made a statement PLEASE say that

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll say it without him making a statement

DAVID VOLEK beat Lemieux in 93, so SUCK it or get over it.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

haha hang your hat on that…that cup must have been sweet that year…oh wait

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

You’re missing the point, which based on your other posts here appears to be a pretty common theme.

When he said those things many called him out as being a hypocrite because of the timing of saying them only after it was his team getting pummeled and not the other way around. Now that it’s been said and it’s out there and the general consensus by everyone not in Pittsburgh is that it was poorly timed and hypocritical, he has a prime opportunity to restate his case and show that he wasn’t just crying about his own team in the guise of altruism.

PLEASE tell me you wouldnt say these two things had Mario made a statement PLEASE say that

I would say neither of those things. Are you going to call me a liar now?

by elesias on Mar 4, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

99.9% of this homer board would say those two things…tell me where you fall in?

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Since you deign to ignore my point, set up a straw man, force false dichotomies and answer a question with a question… I’ll just pose one for you in return:

I’m not an Islanders fan, so where’s that leave your little pet theory?

by elesias on Mar 4, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll repeat that Mario is still pissed at the Islanders for 93

and has a general hatred for New York for Graves slash in 94 as well. I’ll also say that Lemieux cares not a lick about the NHL, but his own interests .

For Lemieux to be taken seriosuly he has to act like Brad Ference and admit his own teams failing first. I gave Guerin full credit when he spoke out last years as well, but he wasn’t re-newed either.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

who is Brad Ference—-you mean Andrew?? your whole point is invalid because of that mistake (remember when you said something stupid like that earlier)

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

You mean like how you spelled Staal S-T-A-L-L in your post above?

My point is that you were starting from an illogical premise to begin with and therefore no point debating.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 4, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I’ll repeat that Mario is still pissed at the Islanders for 93

And for anyone who doesnt believe that, just wait til the statue he endorsed where he make-pretends that he beat the 1993-era Islanders comes to light outside the Pens arena!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 4, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

99.9% eh?

First day in this community, and you don’t know a thing about it. Kindly take your laments back to Pensburgh, if they’ll have you, as you’re clearly only hear to troll and vent.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

i still havnt decided what your deal is

im wavering between your just a troll or if your honestly just that ignorant

"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992

by Zhora on Mar 4, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He switches back and forth, doesn't he?

Unfortunately, a 50% rate on 20 comments in your first day here isn’t good enough. He’s gone.

The Web offers a lovely menu of other places for trolling and wind-ups.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

whoa!

So, a NEW YORK ISLANDERS message board has ISLANDERS FANS on it! No WAY, bro. And I suppose Pensburgh has nothing but Kansas City Chiefs fans who casually follow hockey?

Enough’s enough. We’ve given you plenty of slack here so far. Let’s call it a day.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

LOLOL

If Dom wasn’t gonna, I was, if he had ignored my last. Not a surprise. And rec’d for your closing line.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I knew something was up

when I saw this post magically go up 80 on the day after…sigh. Can’t believe that’s the stance he took on this post of all things. Which has less to do with us defending Gillies than us condemning league discipline.

"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
Website: Lighthousehockey.com
Twitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Mar 4, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt

He’s whining about Isles fans, then essentially ignores the post he’s commenting on.

But he’s barely contributed at Pensburgh (mainly to rip the homer apologists at this site), and got himself banned from Japers’ Rink. Then comes here and alternately pretends he wants a real discussion, except not.

You know what’s funny? I’m really annoyed by trolls who don’t use punctuation. People can write with whatever “style” they want, but if you’re trying to wind people up, at least have the decency to make your tripe readable.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah it took an ex Isle for Lemieux to perform…If i were you guys i would have disowned Trots years ago seeing that he worked for your org and came to our playoff games…

by black&goldtilldead&cold on Mar 4, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

10 Games is nonsense...

That hit didn’t deserve 10 games. It isn’t a wheel of justice, but a sliding scale. For Islander infractions +3 to min and +7 to max

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 4, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Gillies gets 10 Games

Interesting, nhl.com includes video of the hit in their suspension story. If memory serves, they usually don’t even do that, and leave you searching the Web for the “an incident in a game against _ on March _” they’re suspending for.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

It's part of the double standard circus.

Some players are judged by “intention” while others are judged according to “outcome.” I’d still like to see Gillies in an Islanders sweater next season. Screw the idiots at TSN and VS, and the inaccurate portrait they’ve painted of the Isles. I’d like to see Garth appeal the suspension rather than cower in fear of reprisal from the league for daring to disagree. Doubtful since the league demonstrated that if you dare to challenge it, they fine you 100K.

Hunter said he was just finishing his check.

by Turgeon1992 on Mar 4, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

not sure that he can appeal

He was suspended as a result of a hearing. If he had just been suspended, then they could request a hearing in reply. At least that’s my shaky reading of the CBA tea leaves here.

Ten seems harsh, but he did deserve something.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 4, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya the first time i saw the hit was 2 minutes ago after clicking on the “Isles Gillies suspended for 10 games” link…I was expecting something atrocious…it wasn’t. IMHO Gillies got screwed on this…Where is Clutterbuck’s suspension, i personally feel his hit was worse. The league is a joke and consistently drops the ball. Whether they dont give out suspensions to players who deserve them, or come down too harsh on players who don’t deserve it…the league consistently drops the ball.

by Dangles-McDonnybrook on Mar 4, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's so random

And to think, the biggest context Colie considers is whether a player is injured or not (well, except for on this one, since Cal was back and registering 6 hits the next night).

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 4, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

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Islanders Schedule

1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


Blog Bossy

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Enforcers & Snipers

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Master of FIGs and Power Tablature

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