Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Islanders Recall Joensuu; More on Aaron Ness Leaving Gophers

As suspected when he wasn't in the Bridgeport lineup last night, Jesse Joensuu has been recalled and was skating on a line with Blake Comeau and Josh Bailey in practice today. (Matt Martin dropped back to the fourth line.) Seems we bring this up every time a Finn Named Jesse makes his return, but he has often been open about having three years to make a go of it here, and we are nearing the end of Year 3. His ELC ends this summer, after which the Islanders can elect whether to qualify the RFA.

This is debatable, but to me Joensuu's shown marginal progress just about each time he's returned -- albeit with natural fits and starts -- so I hope he gets regular reps next to Comeau and Bailey for one more look now that the lines have stabilized. It's not that I think he's some dynamite power forward-in-waiting, but I do think he might still become a useful NHL player, and I don't advocate the casting away of cheap, useful players.

Our resident Scandinaviophile David Hanssen made that case more passionately back in January, but in short: I think three years is sort of a false and short deadline for the development of a big-bodied 23-year-old. (He turns 24 in October.)

More on Aaron Ness: Thoughts from a College-Following Isles Fan

After the jump, please check out my exchange with Adam Wodon, a writer for the New York Hockey Journal and managing editor for College Hockey News, about Aaron Ness' game, his decision to leave college, and on the development route of college in general.

Star-divide

Seems any time the topic of a college player comes up here, I end up exchanging thoughts with Wodon, who covers college hockey and happens to be an Isles fan, too. (Here are his recent NYHJ pieces on Andrew MacDonald's "warrior" mentality and on John Tavares liking Long Island. He was also the author of that piece I referenced earlier this week, an interview with Don Lucia on developing players. So that's a window into his perspective.)

Personally, as someone whose hockey radar is about 95% focused on the NHL, I take a very utilitarian view of college hockey: I want it to be healthy overall and I sympathize with major juniors teams picking off its players, but when it comes to Islanders prospects I just want what's best for the Islanders and their prospects. A three-year contract is not an insignificant investment in a player, no matter what his projection. So when a player like Ness signs my question isn't only, "Is he ready?" but also, "Is this the right investment for the Isles?"

Anyway, because this topic always brings out a lot of opinions from a lot of different corners, I thought I'd pin down Wodon for some focused thoughts from the perspective of someone who thinks the "Minnesota holds you back" camp is off the mark, to say the least.

Note: These questions were exchanged via email. I have edited them to make us both sound like upstanding members of society.

LHH: First, your credentials sir: How much have you watched Ness play?

Wodon: I've seen him most weekends, because all Minnesota games are on TV -- via the dish.

 

LHH: Do you think he's ready for pro hockey?

Wodon: It depends on which level. I think he's more likely to spend time next season in the ECHL than the NHL, let's put it that way.

 

LHH: So you think he should have stayed in school?

Wodon: Absolutely. If a player is not ready, or almost ready, for the NHL, he should stay in school. There is no harm to staying in school, and it will probably benefit you. But there is a lot of harm that can come from leaving too soon. Ness has actually come a long way since his freshman year. You can't see it in points, but he's certainly improved. His game simply didn't translate from high school to college like many thought it would. At some point, it has to be about Ness, not whether Lucia "developed" him properly.

Remember, the Islanders drafted Ness after the Kyle Okposo thing. If they thought Lucia was that bad, they wouldn't have done that -- and they wouldn't have let him stay for two more years.

The NHL has a lot of people trying to do the right thing, but they see if from their lens. College players now are a very cheap way to fill out AHL rosters. All sorts of people are in the ears of college players telling them pie in the sky things about their future. Very few, if any, are telling them to stay in school. I don't say this because of academic reasons or some polyanna notion of the value of education..

---LHH interjection: Hey! It's not just polyanna about education! It's about the parties, and the girls, and putting things on YouTube that will never go away, and eating poorly while the body still feels indestructible -- everything in the strange four(ish) years where life is some alternate reality adult summer camp...--

Wodon continues:  ...I say this purely from a hockey standpoint. I don't buy, and never will, the idea that the AHL is a better development ground than NCAA hockey. The "more games" myth has been disproven time and again -- there are tons of 4-year college players who were undrafted who are now in the NHL making an impact. You learn, and there's something to be said for the leadership skills you gain by being a senior.

LHH: Examples...?

Wodon: Bobby Butler and Colin Greening are two very good examples of 4-year NCAA players who have jumped to the NHL this year and done well. There are many more. On the other hand, history is riddled with players who left too soon, never to be heard from again.

 

LHH: Fair enough. History is riddled with prospects who don't pan out, period, but I get your point. And really that's why if I were in the shoes of a very-much-might-miss prospect, I'd probably default toward finishing college.

Anyway, for those who say Lucia or "the program" is holding him back, can you explain why you think that's not right?

Wodon: I think this is absurd. In addition to my college hockey duties, I'm a lifelong Islanders fan, but I believe Garth Snow was wrong to have called out Lucia as he did when Kyle Okposo left. I understand why he did it -- he did it in reaction to what Lucia was saying at the time. But Lucia was only trying to defend Okposo from a lot of mad Gophers fans by putting it on the Islanders. So the whole thing was screwy.

Is it possible that, in the last few years, Minnesota's assistants are not as strong as they once were? Maybe. I don't know enough about Xs and Os and the inner workings of the program to know.

What I do know is this ... Don Lucia won 25 games per year at Colorado College without blue-chip talent. When he got to Minnesota in 1999, he completely rejuvenated the program by getting rid of the country club atmosphere that pervaded when he got there. He mixed enough lunchpail guys in with the blue chippers, and molded it together into a two-time national championship team.

Obviously, the Gophers have tailed off the last three years. But Lucia didn't all of a sudden become dumb. The "chatter" from the NHL side about Minnesota is nonsense -- and the same kind of nonsense that the Kings said about Red Berenson at Michigan. Lucia certainly didn't hinder the "development" of NHL defensemen like Jordan Leopold, Paul Martin and Alex Goligoski.

What I do think happened - and certainly you can criticize Lucia for it - is Minnesota got caught with its pants down in the changing landscape of the new NHL collective bargaining agreement. Suddenly, all those blue chip players they used to get -- they'd come and go much more quickly.  Erik Johnson, Phil Kessel, Okposo, etc... They were in and out.  Having the pick of the litter wound up hurting more than it helped. Minnesota needs to change the kind of player it brings in -- at least somewhat.

But Lucia a bad coach? Bad at development? No.

*  *  *

Thanks to Adam for that. You can agree or disagree with any of the above. But since as with juniors and prospect talk there is always a range of opinions based on limited actual exposure, I thought it would be fun to get an angle from someone who follows the college game very closely.

By the way, it sounds like Ness' parting from Minnesota was amicable. Here is part of Lucia's statement:

“Aaron made tremendous strides this year physically and in the defensive part of his game," Minnesota coach Don Lucia said. "He was a terrific leader and you could count on him to be the hardest worker in practice and he competed hard in every game. At 20, he has a bright future ahead of him. We will miss Aaron, but appreciate all he did for Gopher hockey.”

And here is some of what Ness said [Star-Tribune] after his decision was announced:

"I had a great three years," Ness said. "And realistically, if I had to do it all over again," Ness said, "I would do the same thing. I had great coaches, great fans. Everything is put on a platter for you to succeed. I would have wanted to do better in the playoffs, to go further, but it happens."

And here is a little more from both at TwinCities.com, including a note about Ness' physical development.

Comment 61 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Hey! It’s not just polyanna about education! It’s about the parties, and the girls, and putting things on YouTube that will never go away, and eating poorly while the body still feels indestructible – everything in the strange four(ish) years where life is some alternate reality adult summer camp…

:’(

I kidnapped a duck once and let it out in my friends apartment. I feel like that would be frowned upon at 27. Stay in school kids!

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Mar 17, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

At least it wasn't a goat from a 4H farm

You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?

by Anarcurt on Mar 17, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is *exactly* the sort of thing I'm thinking of

Granted, the life of a pro hockey player must be like college on steroids (well, once they make the NHL), but in many ways college can/should be the best years of your life, if you do it right.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

awkward

The duck was not a problem until it started Twittering rude jokes about tsunami victims.

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 17, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Aflac!

GG’s gonna miss that gig.

by 4PeatSake on Mar 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

i picture him sitting in his basement with the lights off

I don’t mind tellin’ ya, it stings. I was on SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE dammit! Yeah, it was when it sucked, but SO WHAT? Where’s the respect?

Fast strikers, give the defenders difficulty!
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog

by mikb on Mar 18, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he is right about the staying in school part

I really don’t see it as that great of a benefit for him to go to the AHL. If he isn’t NHL ready (which he probably isn’t unless he has a stellar camp or we lead in injury minutes again) is there really a point? I’m not upset about the choice; maybe we can get rid of some of these scrubs down in BPT, but I don’t see much benefit from his end (except a salary).

You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?

by Anarcurt on Mar 17, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

If they thought Lucia was that bad, they wouldn’t have done that — and they wouldn’t have let him stay for two more years.

Haven’t the rumors been that the Isles have been trying to get him out, and he’s been opting to stay?

there are tons of 4-year college players who were undrafted who are now in the NHL making an impact.

Jack Hillen can be counted among them. But given there are around 60 Division 1 schools and let’s say 25 players on each team, probability is that there are some talented youngsters who were overlooked.

But I really probably know about as much as Dom, I pay more attention to the pro game so feel free to ignore what I’ve said

Great to see Joensuu back, I thought he was finally making some progress during his last stint. With players getting rotated in and out of the lineup from BP, I wonder if Snow wanted Schremp to get claimed so he could give these guys one last look before their ELCs were up.

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 17, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought his take on Minnesota being slow to react to the CBA was an interesting one. Never would’ve even considered that. Who knew they had Kessel, Goligoski, Johnson and then KO also.

I tend to agree that a good coach doesn’t just stop being a good coach so if there was talent to be cultivated out of Ness, I guess Lucia would be able to make it happen.

At least he said some kind words about him on his way out.

"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington

by Pauly C on Mar 17, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

The Minnesota fanbase is crazy intense, so you’ll hear all across the spectrum about what’s the problem, who’s the issue, Lucia is god/Lucia is suddenly stupid. I don’t see how he suddenly became a bad coach or developer.

It wasn’t in this article, but Adam’s take on the Okposo situation was both execs were trying to protect the player (deflect blame derision), but it escalated into shots at each other.

A good friend of mine and Gopher fanatic has always agreed with that take on the CBA: The Gophers had too many stars that were picked off too soon. His motto: “Come on kid, just give me two years. Two years is all I ask.” So he was pissed at KO but thinks Ness made the right call.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

College Hockey really changed after the CBA

As an avid watcher of Hockey East play (I live close to Amherst and had season tickets to the UMASS Minutemen until last season) the WCHA and HE really had to retool their programs so they don’t loose their top players. Or, if they do loose their top players others can fit into the system and not loose a step.

College hockey is interesting since the coach is really the key figure. The most successful programs have legendary coaches, Michigan, BU, BC just off the top of my head. And it tends to be a cult of personality at each individual college program.

Another thing that makes college hockey hard to evaluate, besides the weekend only games, and shortened season, is the discrepancy in rink size. Some teams, like UNH, play on an Olympic size rink, others like UMASS play some where inbetween Olympic and NHL, while others play NHL sized rinks. As a result, each team is really tailored to their respective home ice.

For example, Don Cahoon, the UMASS coach, recruits a lot of USHL players who are small but fast, and tries to find large defenders, but UMASS is at a disadvantage being the 4th or 5th or 6th best team in MA and so can’t always recruit the home grown talent from the East Coast like a BC, BU, UNH or Maine can.

Another oddity is the ages of players. Some come in like Van Reimsdyk (sp?) at 18 or 19, while others like Casey Wellman come to UMASS at 22 as a freshman. Or John Quick, who graduated as a 23 yr old sophomore.

In short each program is so individualized and specific that comparing across teams, or leagues (WCHA, CCHA, HE) is really tough.

by Jones79 on Mar 17, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Different rink sizes

That really is a wild aspect of it. I wouldn’t want quite that disparity from Olympic to NHL sized rinks, but it does make me miss the days when some NHL rinks were smaller and created a totally different character to their team and how visitors played.

Interesting stuff there, Jones!

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure

I heard and read some that he was weighing leaving last year. So maybe it was the Isles not wanting to sign him just yet. Who knows. Based on his body type and timeline, I wouldn’t have wanted him to leave a year ago.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Brian Boyle? Matt Moulson. Jeff Halpern. Andy MacDonald. Martin St. Louis. Compare it against the list of players who have left early.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boyle is an interesting

Besides being a total douche of a college player, he skated as a defenseman for much of BC’s championship run. But he has the hockey smarts, size, and work ethic to make up for his slow stride and lack of vision.

Its fitting he is a Rangers since I hated him on BC and now in NY

by Jones79 on Mar 17, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don’t think it matters re: Staying Vs Leaving Early.

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 17, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

To some people Senior year is important for a number of sentimental reasons. He was also one year from graduating, which is important to consider for after your done playing hockey. Especially if he plays a short career in only the AHL. He’d be making 50k/150k tops I believe, and the government takes half of it.

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 17, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I completely disagree: College is an academic device....

That has opportunities for athletics, not the other way around. Its calender, 4 year program etc is an academic creation, athletic programs are merged to this.

The college degree is suppose to serve you the rest of your life. Athlete lifespans are much sorter, the clock is ticking much faster and for >90% of pro athletes your career is over/declined by early 30s. Furthermore with CBAs its important to get on the pro clock ASAP. If you can develop even a bit faster or better in the pro-minors….get out.

There’s a reason many college is not a primary rout for many sports (baseball, hockey) while it is for others (basketball football). If it did an equal job as pro-minor leagues you wouldn’t see that discrepancy.

As far as Lucia doing a good job… his job is to run a college program not an Jr NHL team. Its to run an athletic program at an academic institution. There are inherent conflicts there

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

disagree

The reason is entirely cultural … Basketball and football are traditions. … Whereas junior hockey was a tradition in Canada, and thus the baseline. NCAA hockey is an alternative. No other sport has that kind of alternative. ……. In baseball, there are many players from latin countries, for one, none of whom are going to college. Second, college baseball has grown quite a bit, similar to college hockey. …. Comparing to basketball and football – again – it’s cultural … those places were essentially established as THE minor leagues for those sports. They had no options. In addition, you weren’t even allowed to be drafted. But now, as you’re allowed to be drafted earlier, you see many many more players in those sports leave college early, or not go at all. … It was a more a tradition there, and it’s being broken. …. Also, in football, the dynamic is moreso that body strength/size is an enormous component – and that requires some time.

The folly is in thinking that AHL/Junior 80-game schedules is somehow better. … If it was better, then basketball players would have stunted development. But no one ever suggested that basketball players’ development was stunted with a short schedule. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar didn’t play “junior basketball” – he played college basketball.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why so few take the free bonus then

you have a choice in a rout to a hockey pro career… just hockey or hockey and a college degree. If they were equal in preparing for the NHL then why are so few pro players taking the rout that comes with the bonus degree?

Sports like hockey and baseball require mental development that professional teams can accelerate over college (eg hockey players typically peak at 27, Defensemen take “longer” to develop). Hitters hit peaks of BA and HRs later in there career.

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Part of it is drafting bias

To be noticed you used to have to play Junior Canadian hockey, because the perception of Canadian General Managers was that there weren’t equally capable players in college. There were also less resources to dedicate to scouting the college ranks and college ranks probably were inferior because the players destined for NHL careers knew that the GMs only scouted Juniors, sort of a self fulfilling prophesy.

Credit expansion for creating more jobs and the need to casta bigger net to find better players. You also have to credit guys like Lou Lamoriello that came out of college hockey and took their chances on college players.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's fine

but then (like Ness) most players have a choice…. go/continue college go to the pro minors. If college was equal to the task of prepping you for the NHL why to so many players skip it or skip out early

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

you’re suggesting that 20 year olds know which is better for them at that point. Or 16-year olds, for that matter. That is the age when you need to decide major junior or college.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

If teams thought college was equal for development

They wouldn’t be burning ECL years getting them into the AHL.

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

no one said teams are right either ….. and every team is different. …. It’s also CHEAP these days. That was the point of the new CBA issue. After the new CBA, it became very cheap for NHL teams to pluck kids out of school. That’s why so many leave early these days.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many

Colleges sit down and do strategic planning on the best means for a player to develop into an NHL defenseman, forward etc?

How many NHL teams/coaches do?

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

still doesn’t make them right – they have their own biases

by Arbourisgod on Mar 18, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because money is enticing?

Seriously, I see your point, I just don’t think that example is so cut-and-dried. Just because players leave early does not mean “thus, it is better.” Tons of variables to weigh.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Ness the Islanders think its better then another year. Its completely in their control. Wodon (and my compliments an excellent article and interview thank you) mentioned Ness going to the ECHL so its not like the Isles think he’s going to be a cheap roster player next year, this is a development decision

And for that matter so does every other team in the NHL that signs players away from college and puts them into their minor league system

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course teams think their way is better (though in many cases, teams encourage players to stay) …. but is it? That’s the question. … Plus it’s cheap for them. There’s little risk in taking Ness out.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's an NHL teams job

It isn’t the primary job of an academic institution.

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course they are developing players’ skills – it only helps their own teams.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isles think he’s going to be a cheap roster player next year,

Which would be odd if you think they did, considering the amount of Dmen signed for next year.

"Wonder where Botta will go from here?" "to work for the Ministry of Truth?" ~ Original Rob
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Mar 17, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude – this is a long topic ….. but juniors promise them money and “scholarships” too – which are largely bogus. … Kids don’t know better. Families don’t know better. And when you’re a kid, you often think “cool – I get to play 80 games – and anyway, this is what everyone else did” ….. A lot of that has changed, but that’s still a big attitude.

Anyway – what makes you say “so few” take the college route? 35% of NHL players played college hockey … with another 20% ?? from Europe. Major Junior is still dominant – but way, way, way less than it was.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

LeCavalier's parents did it right

They agree to allow him to go to Juniors if the team agreed to pay his college tuition if he weren’t drafted by the NHL. Nice if you have that kind of bargaining power. Not sure wha the CBA has to say about it at the NHL level or players could be equally compensated if they aren’t offered a contract beyond the ECL.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 17, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems to me college is ideal for the late bloomer

Or in Ness’ case, someone who has an inherent disadvantage (size) mixed with an otherwise superior skill set.

If you’re a budding star, major juniors will try to pick you off before you’re even college age anyway. Meanwhile, college starts you later (in some cases much later) and some even guide you to USHL first like Anders Lee. While the athletic lifespan is limited, college almost offers an alternative and “safe” development route for those not rushing to juniors and/or pros too early.

As to the “reason college isn’t the primary route” — I mean that comes down to one thing: Hockey is still a Canadian game and major juniors were established there long before college hockey became a big factor. Those other sports are American and have no major junior counterpart.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

or the back up rout

Juniors aren’t the factor, since they prevent you going to the A anyway.

I’m saying after juniors, the reason most players jump to the pro-minors rather then college is that they prep you better then NCAAs for the NHL.

I disagree with the argument that any player serious about being a pro should make the choice of college over pros (eg Ness)

The evidence supporting this is: Despite almost equal access to college and pro-minor development (and the bonus of having a college degree), pro-minors are overwhelmingly the rout taken

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, they're different routes

That evidence is weighted based on the circumstances: If you are a legit pro prospect, you are going to be desired and flirted with sooner, regardless. Depending on your age when you’re identified, it may be juniors that come calling, it may be college (or both) and then it may be the pros. If you’ve gotten to college, the better you are the more likely you are to leave early and be wanted early and get a good offer early. Whereas the more questionable you are, the more important that carrot of a college degree may seem.

To me it’s very much a case-by-case basis. We don’t really have data of equal prospects at equal ages, some of whom chose to leave and some of whom chose to stay. Different players on different curves have different needs; that decision will always be a balancing of many factors.

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you’re mistaken …. and in any event, you can’t play college after major junior. Not allowed – by NCAA rule.

since 35% of current NHL’ers played college – by what measure are you suggesting that AHL and/or junior hockey is a better route?

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Graduated or "played"

There’s no way you can convince me that development of hockey players at an institute who’s primary mission is academic education is as good as a professional development team.

Its simply a matter of mission The U of M may do a great job of getting players for a professional career but that’s not the primary focus and design of the U of M and therefore it will never be as focused or designed as a professional development team

by neologizer on Mar 17, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok – well then there’s really nothing to discuss

by Arbourisgod on Mar 18, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least in his case, he was a high first-round stud …. even then, he could’ve benefited from staying the rest of his 2nd year.

by Arbourisgod on Mar 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be, but KO is completely different

Again, I’d argue this topic is very case-by-case. KO was able to play in the NHL within months of his parting. For stars or potential stars the stakes and development curves are quite different than for players who may never even make the NHL.

For a questionable prospect, I could even see the team saying, “Well, sign now and we think we can develop you the rest of the way, but wait another year or all the way to graduation and we can’t guarantee there will still be openings.”

Lighthouse Hockey: Send us your cold, your poor, your healthy goalies.

by Dominik on Mar 17, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

For a questionable prospect, I could even see the team saying, "Well, sign now and we think we can develop you the rest of the way, but wait another year or all the way to graduation and we can’t guarantee there will still be openings."

Something tells me that this is the way Garth operates. I could see Ness getting skittish as he falls further and further down the depth chart; hell, he’s already behind CdH, Katic, and Donovan alone as our small, puck-moving offensive-minded D-men. It probably would’ve made even more sense for him to go pro last year rather than this year to get a jump on the other prospects. Time will tell.

by Fabtraption on Mar 17, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah that is an interesting factor

Donovan especially. His emergence has definitely shortened the clock on Ness. Every time I’ve watched Donovan this season he’s looked good at both ends. He cycles in to plays in the O zone but doesn’t get burned if things turn the other way. His D game has gotten steadily better. I would guess Donovan will be a bottom 4 and PP specialist in 3 years.

You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?

by Anarcurt on Mar 18, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like the current system for the exact reason Dominik keeps stating

There are different options for different players. There may not be one BEST solution for all of these kids. You live in an abusive household get out at 16 and you’re better off. You’re a late bloomer and didn’t grow until later you may be better off in college. The current mish-mash of a system allows for everyone to have the ability to find the right place to develop, that still doesn’t guarantee that they’ll choose it, but at least they have choice.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 17, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reaility there are three competing factors

1. What is best for the professional team NHL/AHL/ECHL
2. What is best for the development team Junior/college/development program
3. What is best for the hockey player

All three of these three interests will rarely intersect at the same time.

Sarcasm is my permanent font.

by Hockey1919 on Mar 17, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would one more year at Minnesota made much of a difference?

Maybe pychologically if he all of sudden started scoring but I doubt his senior year would be that much difference than his junior year. Also, the obvious argument in favor of the AHL/ECHL versus the NCAA is that the whole point of the AHL is about devoloping prospects for the NHL. Winning and selling tickets is secondary- or at least philosopically is supposed to be. In the NCAA the coaches are not worried about what the Islanders coaches and front office see for Aaron Ness as important in devoloping for the future. They are concerned about winning. All that being said I am going to assume Woden knows a lot more than I do and he makes a good point about the success of many players making the jump from college to the pros. Also, being part of organization that is solely there to compete and win (NCAA) versus an organization (AHL) that is more concerned with devolopment may actually be better for players. Who knows? But while in the AHL younger prospects may get more playing time over veteren AHLers for the sake of there future it doesn’t work like in the NCAA and that is why so many freshman see limited playing time. I have no idea what is better for a prospect but maybe a young guy learning his place in a system and earning playing time and knowing his place amongst the team veterens is better than being the entitled prospect in the AHL looking down on 30 year old depth guys knowing you are going to be making ten times as much money in a few years than them.

by MatthewM11 on Mar 17, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

As usual...

… I don’t have anything intelligent to add, but I will offer this perspective. Maybe it’s just about OPPORTUNITY.
The Islanders are going to be basically starting fresh in BPT. If all works out they could have 2 AHL rookies starting on the blueline next year (deHaan, Dehart), and a few more behind them if similar school decisions are made. I assume the Isles will be upgrading the coaching situation in BPT, and starting something NEW there that may be brought to the Islanders in a few years.
Let’s just say that Chynoweth goes to BPT… wouldn’t you want to be there from the beginning, rather than sticking with a team that is going nowhere… FREE. It would be a lot harder to climb the ladder next year if Kessel and Donovan join the team. Heck.. they might push the ladder away from the wall.. and Ness isn’t climbing that wall without a ladder.

Aaron needs to take advantage of every opportunity… and if he makes the best of those opportunities… well, he could be in the NHL someday. If he stayed in college an extra year he could have been another asst manager at the Verizon Store near you!

Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA

by JPinVA on Mar 17, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I like that ...

Joensuu’s getting another look. I thought he was starting to assert himself more right when they sent him down last time. He has to feel like this is it- if he’s ever gonna stick, he has to get it going right now. I’m very curious to see how he handles it.

by dose on Mar 17, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

One more year as a Golden Gopher couldn't hurt

I think Aaron is leaving one year too soon. Unless he has a legitimate shot at making the Isles next season, he really should get his education and have the luxury of one year more of development without pressure.

The only reasoning I think Aaron could be thinking of is the suddenly crowded defense position as far as prospects are concerned and he believes playing in the AHL will help more than playing in NCAA. With the acquisition of Wishart; not to mentionHamonic and A-Mac already locking up two spots for the foreseeable future, Ness must believe that competition for a job on the Island is going to be fierce the next few years … especially with deHann, Donovan, Katic and Kessel on the cusp. Not that the Isles have any “blue chip” defense prospects … they do have a stable of quality guys that could take up some spots on D.

Aaron has a lot of guts … I can tell that much. He actually finished HS in 3 years … he seems to be in a rush.

Another year couldn’t hurt him though. As long as he keeps improving, time would take care of the rest.

by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on Mar 17, 2011 10:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Ahhhh c'mon

I was just starting to like the look of that third line with Martin on it :(

by ilopan on Mar 18, 2011 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

I really don't get

why they are messing with a successful line just to take another look at what can best be described as a marginal player. I know it takes some players awhile to excel in the NHL, but that should not be at the expense of a line that has been clicking since introduction of Martin to it.

I have nothing against Joensuu and I understand that since were not making the playoffs, that they coaching/mgmt wants to take extended looks at the Bridgeport kids but I think his time with the Isles is done. I also feel that you want to build for next year and part of that is finishing strong with lines intact. This is the first time in a really long time that the Isles have 3 good lines, along with a good hard banging 4th line. Let them finish up strong with as much success as possible as we go into next season.

This just in: DP to attend Ed Hospidar School for Fisticuffs, film at 11

by Timtropolis on Mar 18, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

why they are messing with a successful line Its not reasonable to think that lines will stay exactly as they are and the Isles will not want to see what they have with any of the other players in this orbganization. Its just not reasonable. To the contrary, this is the EXACT time to try things like this out.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Mar 18, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A New York Islanders blog for fans near and far. Hip and shoulder surgery not required.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Being Reasonable About Garth Snow’s First Rounders
Billy_smith_si_cover_small
LightHouse Hockey game on!
Gigantor15_small
LHH Poster's 25U25 Consensus
Jt_small
The New York Islanders and The Rebuild

Recent FanPosts

Warlord2_small
Breaking Down the Cloutier - Salo Fight
Dutchlogo_small
LHH off-season fantasy league
890_1__small
Expectations: Strome
Small
The Angstlander -- Inside the mind of an anxious Islanders fan (that means you!)
Small
Now that Phoenix has found itself a new owner...
Tubby_goalie_gif_small
Is Garth Snow actually drafting well, or are we all just pr*j*ct*ng again?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Featured Poll

Poll
What else is Russian sports media telling us?

  135 votes | Results

Isles Reading

Islanders Schedule

1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


Blog Bossy

Lhh-square_small Dominik

Enforcers & Snipers

Warlord2_small Mark D

Lighthouse_hockey_logo_2_medium_small Keith Quinn

Tubby_goalie_gif_small mikb

Hg_small Chris McNally

Master of FIGs and Power Tablature

Icon3_small ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles

Emeriti

Officials_sweater_1_small IslesOfficial

Headshot_small Michael Schuerlein

71096_479208120482_1257968_n_small David Hanssen