NHL Realignment: Will the New York Islanders Ever See Playoffs?
by Dominik on Dec 6, 2011 1:47 AM EST
in Big Picture Musings
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The NHL approved the "radical" realignment that eliminates the six-division format, reconstitutes the Patrick Division (welcome, Hurricanes; welcome back, Capitals) and creates what at this point looks like two rounds of intradivisional playoffs, just like the classic Patrick days.
As an annoyingly nostalgic fan of those olden days when you had distinct, bloody rivalrous identities associated with your Patrick and your Norris and your Adams and your Smythe divisions, I'm quite excited by this change.
But as a New York Islanders fan? A little nervous, actually.
| Team | Ave. East Finish '08-'11 | Ave. Payroll '10-'12 |
| Washington | 2.5 | $60.1M |
| Pittsburgh | 3.0 | $61.0M |
| Philadelphia | 4.75 | $62.3M |
| New Jersey | 4.75 | $59.5M |
| New York | 7.25 | $59.3M |
| Carolina | 9.0 | $51.5M |
| Long Island | 13.75 | $42.7M |
Most know the Atlantic Division has been quite competitive, sending four teams to the Eastern playoffs three times since the lockout, and sending three teams in the other three seasons. Basically, it has always been a war, but at least the 1-8 seed setup of the conference allowed the Atlantic to take an appropriately larger share of the pie, which enabled the Islanders to make the playoffs four times in five seasons between 2002 and 2007.
Under the new scheme? Well, the division -- or "conference," as the NHL insists on calling it -- welcomes one more juggernaut while making the barrier for entry even harder: No longer can a team count on the weaker teams in other divisions to forfeit their spot. It's four teams for each group, period.
Note: If you're an LHH regular, previous on-going discussion of the re-alignment news is in this FanShot. There's plenty to discuss. According to Darren Dreger, 26 teams favored the plan, with only four voting against. Note that for average travel distances, the Islanders' new "Conference D" still has by far the easiest in-division travel burden. There's simply no way around that, thanks to history, geography, and New Yorker's penchant for crowding together like bunnies in rabbit hutches.
Other reading: As always, Quisp at Jewels from the Crown lays out some interesting ramifications. I do think the big "bubble" race for the playoffs is an unfortunate casualty of this plan. With presumed increasing parity, maybe that's not as big an issue.
Four playoff teams for each conference ... for now. Does anyone see the possibility of a play-in round in the future? Perhaps expanding the field to 20 teams to make some sort of play-in round? I like how when Charles Wang proposes something like that, he's just a nutty outsider, but when Jim Rutherford does it [edit: and Ken Holland] he's an they are elder statesmaen.
Anyway, according to CapGeek, the Islanders' new division has the top two spending teams in the league this year, three of the top five spenders, and four of the top nine. The table above averages each of these team's Eastern finish over the past four seasons (2007-08 to 2010-11) and shows five teams averaging eighth or better, with Carolina just missing with an average of ninth.
That table also averages the estimated expenditure (again, according to CapGeek) of the past three seasons including the current estimate for 2011-12. (Note: With the exception of the not-yet-complete 2011-12 season, these figures do not include total "potential" cap hit. So they estimate actual bonuses paid out, rather than the potential bonuses through which cap hits are figured.)
Whichever way you spin it, the Patrick 2.0 will have five big-spending teams but only four playoff spots. The New York Islanders are not one of the former. Can they ever be one of the latter?
Of course as with everything during this rebuild in the wake of Milbury's Ashes and amid an arena problem that has been a problem for the past 30 years, so much depends on off-ice factors. While it is far from safe to assume that Charles Wang will spend to the cap if he gets a clear path to a new revenue-generating facility, one can at least suppose he will spend less conservatively if and when that situation clears.
Four Behemoths and Some Other Guys
But in Dolanvision, Comcast, Ted Leon$i$ and Casino Mario, the Islanders certainly have four Goliath spenders against whom they must play David. They may have a fifth in Newark, although the Devils situation is curiously ... curious, as they bet big and long on Ilya Kovalchuk but are currently in an ownership soap opera that is part strained finances and part procedural squabble over how to handle their debt.
Divisional playoffs, if the NHL follows through with that part of the plan, will create some intense, bloody wars the kind that we only get a mere hint of in today's Atlantic battles. (If you're a fan who only met the game during the mid '90s, you're in for a treat.) No longer will you be able to "admire" Alex Ovechkin. No longer will you be able to hope Eric Staal does well. In the proverb of the stereotypically simple football player, those divisional teams are not just frequent opponents, they now become teams that "steal food off the family table."
It means on the occasions your team does make the playoffs, you are guaranteed to enter the playoffs already hating your first- and second-round opponent. (Contrast to the Islanders' 2000s playoff opponents in Toronto, where it took acts of criminality to generate the hate, or Buffalo and Ottawa and Tampa Bay, where ... it was Buffalo and Ottawa and Tampa Bay. It's just not the same.)
That's right, while 2000s playoff opponents amounted to Sabres and Lightning and Senators and Maple Leafs, before the conference format things were a bit different.
The 1993 playoff run went through the Capitals and the Penguins. The Islanders were ousted by the Rangers in 1990 and 1994. In 1988, it was the Devils' first-ever playoffs that eliminated the Islanders on New Jersey's Cinderella run. In 1987, the Islanders beat the Caps in seven before losing to the Flyers in seven.
Think about that, and think about how intense that might be. If only the Islanders first make it into the top four of whatever they call the new, money-infused reincarnation of the Patrick Division.
1987, Four Overtimes, Don Cherry, and the Game 7 Easter Epic
Ken Morrow Ousts the Rangers in OT, Keeps the Drive for Five Alive
For the love of Mikko Makela, maybe one day. Maybe one day.
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Charles didn't make himself a billionaire by being an idiot.
I like how when Charles Wang proposes something like that, he’s just a nutty outsider, but when Jim Rutherford does it he’s an elder statesman.
Your sentiments can also be applied to the negative islander fan as well. When GM/Owner “A” makes a move or signs a contract or waives a player that are being frugal or forward thinking or Cap savvy….When Garth/Charles do it…they are cheap, stupid, inexperienced.
Try to remember people: garth and Charles are working within the parameters in which it is safe for the them to do so. Please, Please, Please can i stop reading and hearing: “Drop that Guy”, “Please Sell the Team” ,“Fire garth Snow”, etc.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
by FB4Real on Dec 6, 2011 2:09 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Agreed.
Yes, we’ve taken some lumps with Wang, but he’s knows hockey more now than he did, and in actuality, Snow has been a very good GM given the outline he has to work under. Bitch all you want about his inability to sign good vets this past off-season, but he did at least try to bring in a good Dman. Compare all you want, we do actuality has some talent worth watching. I find the FireGarthSnow comments lacking much insight. He’s turned out to be better than we could have expected.
The Billion $$$$ Question
Whichever way you spin it, the Patrick 2.0 will have five big-spending teams but only four playoff spots. The New York Islanders are not one of the former. Can they ever be one of the latter?
This is the question that I would love to discuss more….What does a new arena really do for the Islanders Franchise (Financially). Without an NBA sub-tenant will the isles struggle just like the Devils are with The Prudential center now?
I do agree that he will spend less conservatively but lets hope that whatever the future it is a really sound deal for the Islanders as a business. In this new realignment format, the Islanders will competing with big budget, long standing winning franchises….it will be interesting.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
Oh, those are huge questions too
I mean, in terms of sheer financial wherewithal and independent of anyone’s views of Wang himself, is the team in better position to spend in a new Nassau arena, or in a location closer to high-dollar action? (Mind, the other options probably involve using/sharing someone else’s building, so…)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I believe if we can make the top8 we can make the top 4
I mean either way it works out the same, if we are a playoff team in the current format then 90% of the time we are a playoff team in the new format.
You can win with out being the biggest spender but you need quality signings that perform to the top of their ability and are healthy.
Ranger for example they always spend but many times their guys do not perform to the top of their game but just OK. So they do not make it far.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 6, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Thats the way I see it
I think it is tough to compete on a consistent basis with big spending teams when operating at Cap Floor (In fact you really can’t compete unless u have JT type talent).
However, if u at least operate at 60-90% of the cap ceiling u can do it. U just have to spend wiser and draft really well.
My reaction to the CaSystems and how to succeed is that U really have to Scout great so that are always re-stacking the cubbard so-to-speak.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
Agreed, for the most part
Whether it’s 8 of 15, or 4 of 7, they need to beat some big-spending teams. It’s just fun how this alignment really crystallizes the challenge.
That said, conditions and teams change, as Washington, Pittsburgh and New Jersey have all deomstrated.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I went back to 2002 season to compare the current system with new proposal
Left column is actual and right column is using new system….
=====8th Seed Eastern_____4th Seed Atlantic
2011_____NYR (93)____________NYR (8th – 93)
2010_____Montreal (88)_________Phila (7th – 88)
2009_____Montreal (93)_________Phila (5th – 99)
2008_____Boston (94) __________NYR (5th – 97)
2007_____NYI (92)_____________NYI (8th – 92)
2006_____TB (92)______________NYR (6th – 100)
2005——————-LOCKOUT YEAR————————-
2004_____NYI (91)____________Car (11th – 76)
2003_____NYI (83)____________NYI (8th – 83)
2002_____Montreal (87)________NJ (6th – 95)
Only in 2004 would an “Atlantic” team benefit under this proposal
Or
Can they ever be one of the former?
I see no reason this team couldn’t at some point spend on the level Pittsburgh does.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
But that have to sell Tickets first
They have to rejuvanate the fanbase and get them excited about the team enough that they would buy tickets.
After that they can spend when they have stability and an image and product that they can sell (BY THE WAY…I THINK WE ALL AGREE THEY ARE GETTING THERE).
But as i was trying to say above…the financial breaksdown of the new arena and how the islanders make money with it is very important. A nnew building is not enough. A new Nassau building will not have an NBA tenant to bring in 10-15K on 41 separate nights a year and as we are seeing with Devils….down the road this could turn out to be a bad deal for the isles in the longrun if hey have issues ike that.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
Maybe
but Pittsburgh doesn’t have an NBA team.
They do have the advantage of being THE large concert arena for the area.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Thats the thing
A new Nassau Arena has to compete with other potential venues in the area (MSG, Prudential Center, Jones Beach, NYC in general). Its totally different.
If the Isles will not share the building with an NBA team then they need to attract people in other ways. This is another reason why Belmont is such a great idea. That can really be a wonderful entertainment destination if the powers that be think it thru properly.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
Discussing this a bit with my friend tonight, who happens to be a Rags fan
First off, with the new realignment we might not be friends for much longer. It was hard enough before, now with playoff match ups forget about it.
Now on to my thoughts for where the Islanders are headed in the next 5 years playoff wise. You have to figure the Penguins are an automatic lock for a playoff position any year in which Crosby is healthy, let alone if Malkin is too. That leaves an additional 3 spots for the playoffs. I’d list the contenders as the Rangers, Flyers, Caps, and Islanders. I have a feeling the Devils are going to be on the outside looking in and the Canes are really screwed by this.
The Contenders
- The Capitals are going to be stuck with Ovechkin for a very long time unless anything drastic happens in the new CBA. We’ve seen over this and last season that teams have found ways to contain him. Ovechkin is an elite player but I’m not convinced he is going to carry the Caps to division leading records every season. I could see the Caps taking a nose dive soon as pressure builds to nuke the roster every time they fail in the playoffs.
- The Rangers have shown themselves this year to be pretty good. I wasn’t convinced over the summer that adding Richards would really benefit them all that much but they’ve looked pretty good. I tend to think they will be fighting for a 3-4 slot every year. They seem to have an impressive young core of players coming through. Could be fun to see the battles we have with this team going forward.
- The Flyers have a quickly aging defense and they just traded their 2 best young players this off season. They may have leveraged their future in order to try and win now (sound familiar Islanders fans?) This may let them compete for the next 2 years but once Pronger is gone there’s going to be trouble in Philly.
- The Islanders have a great young core of forwards and have seemingly worked out the goaltending situations with Al Montoya. I’m not convinced our budgetary limitations are going to come into play if we continue to get our young players to buy into them. The Tavares, Grabner, and Okposo contracts this summer, in addition to the Moulson contract the year before, demonstrate the value we’ve been able to get for our money. This summer you figure we’re going to have to pay Frans, PaP, and Montoya pretty well but we won’t have Rolston on the books. The big question mark for the team going forward is defense, if they are able to lure 1 or 2 big fish (they should use Montoya’s fisherman on contract offer letterhead) then the Isles will be very competitive. Without the defense we’re probably outside looking in sitting at 5. Offensively we’re going to be too strong soon to sit at the 6 and 7 slots.
The Pretenders
- The Devils are going to be in trouble soon. There are questions about whether they will be able to sign their Captain and most promising young player in Parise. They’ve tied much of their resources into an under performing Kovy. Most importantly in my mind is the imminent decline of Brodeur and the effect that will have on the identity of a team built upon defense. Add in the financial troubles of the Devils, they may be dumping salary instead of staying so close to the Cap.
- The Canes out of anyone in this conference got the shaft. They are a team that has some talent but they don’t have and likely will never have the financial resources to compete with the rest of the division. A miracle may happen like with Pegula to Buffalo but I don’t see this working out well for them long term. You could argue the Canes have been the recent beneficiary of playing in a weak Southeast Division and I don’t see them generating the same success against the Northeast.
The Lock
- The Penguins are blessed to have Sidney Crosby, Malkin, a great coach, and the ability to attract free agents on the cheap. They’ve been managed very smartly and will continue to be barring any unforeseen circumstances. I’m penciling them in for the playoffs every year.
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Well said
Agree the Pens are the big threat, the Flyers are aging (but always willing to spend to cover their mistakes), the Rangers have some nice youngsters and the Caps may have issues. The Devils, with Kovy and still low attendance and ownership drama you wonder.
Carolina, yeah … they could be in trouble. It’d be nice if the Isles started beating them now.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Pardon me, but I think projecting almost anything ...
five years down the road is quesswork at best, and in sports, your just as likely to turn the guesses upside down and be right.
And, here I go again being Mr. Negative, but I think “The Islanders have a great young core of forwards” is just a tad much. The have 1 player who seems on his way to being “great” as long he’s complimented by at least close to similar talent. If you’re really talking “great” players – Tavares IS the core. Some guys are good to very good, and the prospects we have high hopes for are just questions marks right now. Even if the whole is greater than the sum of the parts I think “great” isn’t what we have here. And before the season began I actually thought this team might be able to not just make the playoffs but do real damage if things broke right.
I completely agree that the defense is THE thing for this team though. I also I think the question some raise about whether an arena deal by itself would translate to enough dough for the owner to really open the purse strings is interesting and a little troubling. I’ve always assumed it would, but I don’t know doody about financial stuff, so now I have another reason to worry about this team.
by dose on Dec 6, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on the core
Tavares is really good, will be great.
Grabner is very good, may be really good.
Okposo is inconsistent, may be very good.
Moulson, PAP and Frans are older, and are good to pretty good.
THAT’S IT SO FAR…
We ain’t a great group of F yet, that would require Bailey, Okposo, and a new arrival (Strome, Nino, 2012 1st overall lol – jk) to break out and play like top 6 consistently.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I know the discussion was about teh offensive core, but
we have Amac, Hammy and El Toyota as part of teh core as well…assuming we sign Montoya too.
Plus ça change...
It may not in fact be as bad as everyone imagines. Assuming one of the wealthier teams underperforms tanks each year, it all just means that playing up to potential should be enough to get into the playoffs. Mathematically, the percentage of teams getting in in the 7-team divisions (why conferences, actually?) will go up and not down, with one random team fewer in the mix.
So, for example, if the following are in: PIT, PHI, WAS, and the following tanks: NYR, then chances are not so bad for an easy best-of-7 against the flightless ones in April.
i can't honestly say this is a good thing...
so let’s say the isles sneak in as the 4th seed in the “conference” from time to time with the other juggernauts taking care of their own business respectively, is it fair that the isles have to play the pens/caps in the first round no matter what the circumstances are?…this is why i say this: let the nhl have their 4 “conference” format. let them actually be called divisions within 2 conferences like back in the day before the 3 division format. the 1-8 conference playoff system is actually the best and most fair format there is in sports. taking that away will turn everyone off, plain and simple.
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
Okay but:
Even if they sneak in at 8th this year, for example, they would then have to play the best team in the conference to start. That can’t possibly be easier than playing the best team in the new division.
right...
either way, it doesn’t make a difference whether it’s pitt, philly, wash, or boston. the point here with that is it takes away the flavor within the playoffs. why can’t the isles play buffalo or toronto in the first round? why is that too much to ask for or necessary to change in the first place?…and what if we have another scenario where the 5-8 seeds upset the top 4? how is that not exciting hockey? it’s almost like the nhl gives the top market franchises the advantage from the start. all i’m saying is that the new playoff format is going to get boring after a few seasons. i’m already over the fact that the isles “conference” is more of a challenge. it already was, and adding washington into the mix doesn’t make much of a difference to me. yeah, it’s harder, but it was going to happen anyway…in conclusion, there was never a need to change the playoff format.
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
It might get tedious
It’s tough to say. With bigger divisions I think that risk is less so than it was in the ‘80s (when 4 of 5 made it each year, or 4 of 6 in the Patrick’s case).
When they first switched to 1-8 I found the novelty refreshing, but in time whether series were compelling or not really seemed like the luck of the draw. Lucky, you get Chicago-Vancouver multiple times in a “novel” inter-divisional matchup.
The intra-divisional format certainly stirs more passion, at least for me. Never felt the pain in the losses to TB/OTT/BUF that I felt in the older days.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Haha
7-team divisions (why conferences, actually?)
Because THE NHL SAYS SO AND THAT’S FINAL. Or something…
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'm nervous but excited
Going to be much tougher for the next couple of years, but so much fun if the Isles are competitive
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
Is this what it feels to be a fan of any team but the Yankees or Red Sox???
When will this change happen??
In reference to the posted videos.
It is amazing how much open net their was back then.
The goalies wore about half as much padding and were generally smaller.
It really shows the skill of the goalies back then. How could a game be 2-2, in the 3rd overtime with 75% of the net exposed? Amazing.
Oh and the new conference alignment scares me, but I am intrigued.
Especially about the fact that you can have 2 east teams in the cup. Pretty cool.
by The Danish Backhand of Judgement on Dec 6, 2011 7:57 AM EST reply actions
My goodness, yes
So much space, such lax defense. Playoffs were when forwards bothered to backcheck.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
If the isles continue to progress and their young players actually produce offense, there is no reason they couldn’t be competitive in the new Patrick division. Heck, the old division didn’t stop them from winning. It took them a few years to become dangerously competitive. I am happy to see some changes in the NHL.
Can one be an atheist toward a hockey team? That means I have NO faith anymore.
by Turgeon1992 on Dec 6, 2011 8:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Like/Dislike
Like :
The re-alignment of divisions. Yes, its gonna be tough for the Isles but we have our core locked up for the next 3 years at least, I think we can do some damage. Our defense needs to be upgraded tho and not sure we have the size in Bport so I can see Garth going out to get some “bigger body upgrades” via free-agency, assuming he can get them to come to LI
Dislike:
Was never a fan of the old playoff system. I really like going up against different teams every year with the system that’s currently in place. I do understand the rivalry aspect, especially when it comes to the BlueSchmucks, so we’ll see how it pans out.
on a side note, will be interesting to see what happens if / when Phoenix relocates to Hamilton/Quebec. I can see Lord Bettman banging his head on the desk now lol
Isles rule, rangers suck... that's just how it is.
Red Army Line brought this up in the other thread
But this may actually boost the Isles exposure and therefore revenue.
The two teams added have a lot of displaced New Yorkers in their states. Some travel back here, and the added bonus of seeing an Ovechkin may stimulate attendance a little more.
If the rivalries work out right, there should be increased national TV exposure, and a little hate goes a long way. It’s really no coincidence that the games against the Rags, Pens and Flyers are more heavily attended for all of these reasons.
If attendance goes up but payroll doesn’t, there can be legitimate gripes, but I expect it will rise and if the team continues playing well, it will rise further.
Under this format, all it’s going to take is one playoff appearance (played reasonably well) to develop enough hate to drive attendance up pretty well…unless it’s against the Hurricanes in which case, well…
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Dec 6, 2011 8:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I did forget about that caveat.
I live in DC, and have been able to see the Islanders twice over the past two years when they come to the Verizon Center. Now I have 4 chances.
I'm a mets, jets, islander, and terps fan. Also known as a glutton for perennial punishment.
Ha! Both the Canes AND Isles making it to the playoffs in the same season?
Good one!
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Why do so many people think that teams like the Caps, Pens, etc are perpetually great?
A year or two before the Isles drafted Kyle, the Pens were absolutely awful. Year after year after year.
And how many cups have the Caps won- ever?
Think about the Devils in the 80s. Yeah- they dont want to think about it, either.
The Rags big spenders? they have ALWAYS been big spenders. Why is it so inconceivable to people that their current overblown contract just might resemble any or all of their previous overblown contracts? Why do even Isles fans buy into their hype that THIS time, everything is somehow different?
Why does everyone forget this stuff?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Personally I think this realignment is bollocks
I don’t have the same nostalgia for the old divisions, having been a hockey fan for only 7 or so years, now. But for many of those seasons I’ve been a fan, part of the fun has been tirelessly calculating the mathematical probability of the Isles squeaking into the playoffs and -
Wait.
Promoting interest in mathematics? The NHL had a perfect counter for all those detractors of the league all along, and now it’s RUINED!
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
by ilopan on Dec 6, 2011 8:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This isnt familiar to you… but once it is, you will see why they never should have changed and stopped doing thigns this way in the first place.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Eh
I can’t lie, I think I prefer the new way, to the old way, but it isn’t going to make a monstrous difference most seasons.
I also have a feeling it’ll get tweaked sooner than later, and they’ll end up with something closer to what they have now again.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
I just don't like the prospect of teams making it into the playoffs based on being in weak conferences
I already hate that division leaders are seeded 1-3 automatically. I just want playoff seeds based on merit!
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
This eliminates more of that foolishness, it certainly isnt making it worse.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
In this time of parity, there is no really weak conference.
Teams are where they are- for the most part, this is how teams divide up There are maybe 2 teams per conference that you can debate over, but 5 0r 6 of them are where they simply should be.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Well that happens now
that Southeast division was pretty bad most of the time with the Panthers, Lightning and Thrashers in it. How many points do you think the Caps and Hurricanes got off of those guys that inflated their numbers?
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
We haven't lost a game since I stopped doing FIG picks...
So I’m not doing a FIG for the rest of the season haha. You see I’m very superstitious.
UVa Student. Twitter: @ericdavidmorris
The both of you are doing the Lord's work.
We will never forget your brave sacrifices!
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I haven't done it since last year
when the same thing happened to me. It may have even been the Penguin game where I forgot.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I'm seeing this in more than one spot
: "A.) Gretzky Division
B. ) Howe Division
C. ) Orr Division
D. ) Lemieux Division"
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:00 AM EST reply actions
Fixed
a – Gretzky Conference
b – Howe Conference
c – Orr Conference
d – Lemieux Potvin Conference
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
yeah, good luck on that
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
How great would that be tho lol?
All the Rags fans would now be accused of whistling that their conference sucks!
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Anyway my guess is:
Western, Central, Eastern, Atlantic
Anything else (except for the old division names, perhaps) would be too controversial.
Yea
although I bet they might not do the geography to avoid the nonsense when teams move of having Winnipeg in the SouthEast.
I could see the old names, or something along those lines, but I also doubt they use players-you’re right, too controversial.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
They wouldn't do anything controversial, now, would they?
This is the NHl we are talking about. I’ve seen that in more than one place, i sure hope it’s not true.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, that's your rumor?
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Of course they would.
Mario is probably with Gary right now.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"I want them named the:
Ma
Ri
O and
Lemeuix conferences.
Say it fast, Gary….FAST, GARY….FASTER – Right. It’s beautiful sounding, isn’t it? It’s alright, go ahead, cry….I’m going to…."
Dear New York Islanders
It has come to the attention of this office that there is a typographical error in your media guide and game programs. Specifically, your every reference to the current divisional alignment has your hockey club listed as playing in the “Mary O. Lemeiux Conference.”
While we are forced to admit that this is an improvement over last week’s reports that you had spelled it “The Patrick Division, Bitches,” we still find it to be unacceptable.
Looking forward to proof of further corrections (please see enclosed suggestions in Mr. Lemeiux’s own handwriting), we remain, Imperiously Yours, Gary Bettman, Commissioner, National Hockey League
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
I want them named after the four best players in Penguins history:
Mario Lemieux 1984-1993 Division
Mario Lemieux 1996 Comeback Division
Mario Lemieux 2001 Comeback Division
Sidney Crosby Division
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Dec 6, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it should be named for the player who has played for the most teams in our conference
Has any player played for 5 of the 7 teams?
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Dec 6, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I can think of a few that have played for 3 but coming up short thinking of 5
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Dare, dare!!
/blazing saddles overthetop tone
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
lol
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
I’m seeing this in more than one spot
Because idiots post all over the place.
As if the D-Patrick-whatver teams would vote to play in a division named after the Penguins whint hypocite douche owner. PLEASE.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Do you have to be argumentative in every point you make?
I don’t agree with this and not my idea, and actually a very knowledgable Habs fans told me this first. Not saying it’s going to happen, or that i even will think it will happen. It was for discussion. But here you come with your “do you thinks” and PLEASE in caps.
Oh God. get over your fucking self.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
You have a messed up idea of "argumentative".
Unless this is a Penguins board, I didnt say anyhting to start an argument with anyone.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Read the comments
You made the only serious post about the whole thing. It’s kinda’ funny.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Its "kinda funny", but you are angry and telling me "get over your fucking self" because I hate Mario and *gasp* said so. Gotcha.
I personally think you need to observe a bit more and get a better feel for people around here. You think you have everyone and everything all figured out, but you dont. Calling Mario names on an Islanders board is not ‘arguing’.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
you're the only person i have this problem with
maybe you should observe yourself.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
The "problem" is on your end. And nobody can help that but you.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Has anyone
seen anything on whether they might use this as an opportunity to fix experiment with the scoring system? Seems like a good time to go ahead on 3(W)-2(OTW)-1(OTL)-0(L).
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Dec 6, 2011 9:02 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
NO!
Fix the problem, 2pts for a win, 1 pt for a tie and 0 pts for a overtime loss. Oh, and drop the damn skill contest at the end.
Positive Waves! R.I.P. Indianapolis Racers (1974-1978)
by skeeterman on Dec 6, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Would be great
but that’s not going to happen in a million years. This is the next best solution im my opinion.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Well,
I never thought the would allow two line passes either in a millon years!
Positive Waves! R.I.P. Indianapolis Racers (1974-1978)
Bettman never misses an opportunity to talk about how much fans love the shootout. Who these people are-I have no idea! But apparently they exist in droves and talk to Bettman about it all the time.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Come on, be fair
There must be at least two members to his fan club. It is a big continent, you know.
My prediction on the points scoring system:
A year or two after going back to the four division conference system, the NHL will change the system to read as afrosupreme suggested. Three points will be given for a regulation win, and two points for an overtime or shootout win. One will still be given for a shootout loss, and none for a regulation loss.
The reasoning: With the current format, there are typically a bunch of teams fighting for the last one or two playoff positions, and everyone is within a point or two of each other. People who are really bad at math will look at the standings and think their team still has a shot, despite the fact that the three teams above have games remaining against each other, and that those games will likely be tightly contested, three point affairs. While it looks close, your team’s chances of leaping everyone lies somewhere between slim and none.
With everyone focused on just one division (oops! I mean “conference”), these dire situations will be much more obvious to everyone. It will be at that time that fans will be clamoring for regulation wins being worth more than overtime wins, so that they still have a chance at running the table in regulation, while others battle into overtimes and shootouts.
If I was a betting man, I’d put some serious money on three-point regulation wins within 5 years.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I wish they would just do that right now and be done with it
Realignment is the perfect chance to change it, since the playoff race has changed. Just rip the bandaid off!
It’s like with 4-on-4 OT. First we had 4on4 with ties still possible but OTLs a separate column. Then we add shootouts, and the columns change again (we already have too many columns…let’s just make OTLs and SOLs the same! etc.).
Just do the right thing, NHL. Please.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Yeah, I wish.
But let’s face it… It’s something the league will only do when the fans decide they’re not going to the last games of the regular season because their team is three points out with two games to go, and the team above them just needs to get a game to go to overtime.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Realignment is the perfect chance to change it, since the playoff race has changed. Just rip the bandaid off!
Exactly. I just don’t know if they are willing to admit shootouts are a gimmick. That has to be the biggest stumbling block.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
It has to be, yeah
And probably the league’s general reluctance to change too dramatically at any one time — some GMs even say “we’ve changed enough rules, why always rules changing?” even when the changes are obvious.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
One thing at a time. Absolutely no way that they do anyhting to the scoring system while they are doing this- no way at all.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see
the logic in that, especially since there are now four “final spots” up for grabs instead of two. The Bettman point could play an even bigger role.
They’ve made massive rule changes all at once before. It’s just whether they’re willing to admit a shootout win isn’t deserving of the same status. That’s the biggest obstacle to this.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Shootout/loser point
They absolutely MUST get rid of the Bettman loser point (and the shootout then, too) with this new setup. If you’re playing a team from another conference, what is the motivation to win in regulation? Both teams will just play for OT since there is no worry about the opposition earning a point.
And when I say they MUST, it means they won’t.
Id like to see it gone too.
but there has been absolutely zero talk of it happening, the only talk there has been is about how they are NOT getting rid of the SO, and calling it an “absolute must” isnt going to change that. Me saying this is not because I want it to stay as-is (I personally dont) but because it simply IS going to stay how it is- at least for the forseeable future.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
and calling it an "absolute must" isnt going to change that.
Which is why I added:
And when I say they MUST, it means they won’t.
Which is why I agreed and said Id like to see it gone, too.
Why are we doing this lol?
We both just read these posts, not sure why we are restating them when they are still right there lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Because there's only a few minutes left to your lunch break?
And as a result, you’re speed reading? /shrugs
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Because there’s only a few minutes left to your lunch break?
How did you know that lol?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Well you totally pulled it off.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
They absolutely MUST get rid of the Bettman
Could have stopped here, really.
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
Saw him outside of my building a few weeks ago
Had to try so hard not to go all office linebacker on him.
LOL
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
well i just saw an added bonus of this
with all the possible renewed rivalries, its possible to see the isles in a winter classic in the foreseeable future
screw homework, its all about islanders hockey
Due to
the areneer situation, all our games may be winter classics
Positive Waves! R.I.P. Indianapolis Racers (1974-1978)
by skeeterman on Dec 6, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Man, the ice surface won't be so good in October.
Floor hockey, anyone?
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
You Nailed It - The Problem is the Spending Disparity
We can talk about how teams rise and fall talent-wise, and how the Islanders can draft well and make shrewd trades and free agent pick-ups.
But the fact is having four of the biggest spenders in one “conference” – Rangers, Flyers, Capitals and Penguins – when you have to finish with one of the top four spots to qualify for the playoffs just made it more difficult to get there. It’s like being the Tampa Bay Rays hoping to beat beat out the Red Sox or Yankees, which you’ll do occasionally but maybe not as often as you’d like.
Not the same, imo
Because of the cap.
The Yankes spend what 150 million more a year than the rays on payroll?
That’s not possible in hockey. If the kids continue to grow, fans show up more, I think Wang will spend more money. He’s kinda’ handcuffed right now.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
When the Islanders have a new building and a team players want to play for
Wang will spend the money. It’s coming.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Dec 6, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree on Spending
It has not yet been proven that Wang will not spend to the CAP when it is warranted. Right now he does not have a CAP roster, and any time they have tried to increase payroll they have been either outbid by OVER-PAYMENT or SITUATION. By the time that changes they will not need more than a player or two from outside the organization.
The real “test” is how the organization is RETAINING CORE PLAYERS… and they are PASSING that test. The spending disparity chart will drastically change when top players mature past their ELC’s and this team starts bringing in playoff revenue… and hopefully in a NEW BUILDING.
If you pr*j*ct payroll into 2016-17 the Isles should be managing a $60-70M payroll with close to a $75M Cap Limit. I don’t think that will put them at a great disadvantage in that division. Hopefully it will put them in a positive situation as all of the other teams will be TOP HEAVY.
NYR: Gaborik, Richards and the Queen
NJ: Parise + Kovi
PITT: Syd and Ev-nancy
WAS: 8 + Semin
Carolina should be in a similar situation having been forced into frugal asset management by limited revenue.
The cap has made it a different dynamic, and ANY team should be able to build a consistent winner for under what the CAP CEILING is.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Dec 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that's why i said "I think"
I think if we have more butts in the seats and a better arena I think he will spend more money. Or maybe I just hope.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 6, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
OT
…but how the hell are the Minnesota Wild the best team in the NHL? Moreover, how is Jared Spurgeon their top-scoring D and 2nd in D TOI??
F#$% me…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
They're not.
Total Luck. In fact, there’s some reason to believe they’re the worst team in the NHL.
If you have any friends willing to bet, bet heavily on a collapse.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
by garik16 on Dec 6, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Arnt the Rags kind of in the same position?
Very little shots on goal but fluky shooting percentages?
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
Much better than the Wild but still a bit flukey
They’ve increased their actual possession #s over this streak to be somewhere closer to lower middle of the pack. But Minnesota is DEAD LAST.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
fortunately for them their record does not show it that way
If they are set up to fail that big then it will be a hell of a second half for them to completely tank out of playoff contention. Same with the Rangers, but more then likely the Rangers level out at some point.
I think by their records alone right now, they will still make the playoffs, even if its the 7th or 8th seed.
Good chance they won't.
Seriously this is the same thing as with Dallas last year.
I’d bet good money that say….Colorado finishes with a better record than Minnesota, even with Minnesota holding a 10 point lead at the moment.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
The good thing for them is they have the points, so their play can always improve.
If you are playing well, but not getting any points, there is still a chance you start to play worse and not get the points. I rather be playing “poorly” and racking up points than playing “great”, but have nothing to show for it.
It may all be a house of cards, but we are still dealing with a small statistical sample. In the long run, the metrics should show that you are what your record is.
Except you have it backwards.
The Metrics I’m talking about become significant at a much smaller sample size (like 20 games, where we are now) than actual standings.
In other words, they’re actual RECORD is much more likely to drop toward their possession #s (LAST) than the other way around.
They’re a crappy team getting insanely lucky.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
OR they actually start playing better.
and the crappy play all along was the fluke. There possessopn numbers start to get better and by the end of the season it evens out to look like their possession reflected their play from the start. Is all I was saying.
The assumption is that the present indicators are a good predictor or future performance, which they may be. Or sometimes it is just better to be lucky than good.
I think the point is
even if their possession numbers stay the same, their goaltending sv% and their shooting % are likely to drop precipitously.
So, likely, they will start to shoot at say 5% for a few weeks as opposed to whatever it is now…so even if they are averaging 33 SOG a week (3 games) would be 5 goals and a 1.67 avg. Therefore, if their sv% drops a bit to .910, they lose 3 games.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I think the Wild are a house of cards- MUCH moreso than the Rangers.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Spurgeon?
I think Spurgeon is a curious case of NHL Contract limits and Asset Management. I have a feeling that the Islanders put too much weight on the rapid development of the KKK (Katic, Kohn and Klementyev) to keep Spurgeon in the fold. If I remember correctly the 2008 classes wealth of riches (Bailey, Martin, Hamonic, Dibo) put them at the limit of NHL contracts in the organization. They also tried to add veteran defenders such as Eaton and Mottau which caused more discretion with kids entering professional status.
This obviously wasn’t as bad as Florida waiving Grabner… but when you look at the long term options presented Snow at the time… this was a bad decision. One which GMs make every year… EVERY ONE OF THEM!
2010 “Bubble” Options: Spurgeon(AHL) or Wiz(NHL), Eaton (NHL), Kohn(RFA/AHL), Brett Motherwell(AHL), Hamonic(AHL), . I think the Spurgeon decision was made before Streit got hurt and Mottau was brought in… there’s no way they would have thought of him as an NHL defenseman in the pre-season anyway. They gave up on Niemi for the same reason (I guess).
I think all of those players were on NHL contracts… there would have been other “release” options like Hillen which would have made no sense at all.
He’s definitely an NHL level defenseman, and would have helped the Islanders greatly this season. But.. hey, we got Mike Mottau.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Just one note ...
about Ovechkin. I don’t buy the idea that he’s passed his prime, on the downside or any of that. I obviously don’t see all his games but based on all I hear and read I wonder if maybe the guy is just tired of the whole scene in D.C. and feels like the window to win a Cup there shut a couple of years ago. Ideally stuff like that should’t affect a guy’s effort and performance but it happens. Could be he’s looking at a stale situation and is looking for a new start somewhere else.
Hmmm.
If the window has shut, then doesn't that say something about him? He is the cornerstone after all.
There seems to be a lack of commitment and a split in the locker room between the grunts and the stars. No big deal when the stars are lighting it up, but a very big deal when the grunts are shuffled in and out via trades to try to shore up the stars. The offensive players that Boudreau gave such free reign to also seemed to be the first ones to say sorry to see you go, don’t let the door hit you in your fat ass on the way out.
I loved the way Ovechkin played in his first few seasons at the Verizon and I had partial season tickets until the “rock the red” crowd started to show up. But his commitment seems to have slipped. He can’t say he takes off a few months over the summer, like he did in a recent article, so that he can be fresher for a long season. I think Sidney is white bread, but he is dedicated to one thing and that is to be the best hockey player there is. You see the same thing with Tavares. With Ovechkin, I think he loves hockey, he loves the lifestyle, but not alwasy in that order.
by Hockey1919 on Dec 6, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You clearly know better than me ...
about him and no way I defend any ‘lack of commitment’ by any pro athtlete, whether he gets ten mill a year or ONLY one. But it is the way of the world in sports now, no way around it, and I can imagine somehow a return to greatness if Ovechkin suddenly awoke to find himself in a different place.
He's been shown "All the love" by the Caps organization.
and he appears chummy with Fat Teddy as well, which is never a good organizational structure (why I didn’t like Weight being Assistant Coach and Special Assistant to the GM in charge of reporting what happens on the bench).
You cannot have a chain of command that circumvents the coach. I truly hope OVechkin wakes up out of his “funk” since he can be dynamic and all out entertaining, but I don’t think those changes can come in-season. He’s got to re-dedicate himself in the off-season to being a better player and not realy on his talent alone. That’s a lot of guaranteed money that would make anyone go soft.
Hmm
I doubt that. Distractions if anything. Maybe his new tennis girlfriend, or whatever. Watching the Cats game last night and the announcer made a good comment.
Ovi tends to try and do everything himself once he has the puck say moving into the zone. He looks to pass a defender or two and then shoot the puck. I think defenses now a days are more aware of his plan to do exactly that and shut him down before it happens or make sure there is extra coverage and the right match up on the ice. Watching Ovi for the past couple of years has been great because he is physical, fast, and has a great shot. He can be faulted for his defense at times, but I think he needs to evolve his game a bit more to adapt. He needs to be aware of the space that he opens up with the puck and look for the other 4 members on the ice.
Backstrom is supposed to be his setup man, but for whatever reason he has hit a funk too, cant help to think that hurts Ovis game as well. In the perennial Ovi vs Sid comparison, Sid is lauded as the more complete player, and I have to say its true, because of the vision Sidney has on the ice, plus everything else Ovi has. Ovi just has the edge on perhaps the harder shot and of course the physicality and hitting.
So in essence, Ovi is more like a Rick Nash, or however you want to phrase it, and he needs more players around him to be on top of their game to excel. Crosby on the other hand can have a bunch Melons around him and make them all 20 goal scorers. Obviously it helps having the pieces around him that he has.
So to the final point, I do not think he is over Washington, he wants to win, there is no doubt, but trying to do everything himself and not having his support on top of his game has caused him to suffer as well. Much more than I would have initially thought. Also, nothing against the guy, as he is elite. I do not think he gets traded anytime soon, but to say never would be a lie. As mentioned, no one is untouchable these days.
Brooklyn
Just got hotter, [ similar remarks in Afrosupreme’s fan shot] Why, Wang needs dough to compete in new alignment. Arena is nearly built, has baskets and needs to up seating to 17500 from planned 15000 for hockey. Detractors should know that economy on Island prohibits private or public financing of new building in time for deadline. Beats move to any other city in US or Canada. Public transport in place and for every Nassau/Suffolk fan lost there will be two new ones from Queens/Nassau.
oh yea
NYIslanders NYIslanders
Capuano says Montoya will start tonight. Grabner will not play. Lineups to be determined. Haley will be in tonight. #isles
58 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
screw homework, its all about islanders hockey
I'm guessing we see Al
for all three this week.
Haley in means Wallace upstairs, unless someones getting the Capuano.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
well grabner and nino's spot must be filled
So you assume Wallace and Haley are in there. Unless I missed somebody else in the press box.
Oh right
Nino-duh. I felt like something was wrong as I was typing it… :)
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
8 Team Divisions + ? PT Games = Disaster
If the NHL allows the “2 or 3” point games to continue while establishing a segregation of playoff disbursement they will be shooting themselves in the foot.
NOW
When there are inter-conference games teams have no problem with going into OT. Each team will at least get one point against their conference rivals. Those games now occur when a team plays 15 of 29 opponents. It sucks, but we can live with it.
4 Conference Configuration
Any time a team plays outside their conference the OT stakes will go down. The retention of 1 point will be greater than the risk of 0 points. The last 5 minutes of games will become a neutral zone waltz for 23 of 29 opponents.
Frustration
If you are the 5th team in your conference going into the Ides of March all you can do is throw bricks at your TV when you watch the four teams above you basically go into the four corners by playing strings of 3 point games.
Solution:
ALL 3PT games! RegW=3,OTW=2,OTL=1… all games worth 3 games.
If the four teams above yours go into the OT STALL, then you have to play your ass off to avoid it… RISK/REWARD, rather than REWARD/REWARD.
Note: I hate the current point system… especially because the only argument for it is HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. If it means that much to some people to know which team has had the highest point total in NHL, just have them switch their focus to WINNING% and lets make the last 6 weeks of the season exciting again.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Dec 6, 2011 10:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You are right
46 of the 82 games each team in Isles’s new conference will be playing out-of-conference teams, where the last 10 minutes of the game it will be, “Let’s get this into OT.” (And probably a few more in the 2nd half of the season for in-conference games if the teams are separated by a lot in the standings.) We could be seeing different adaptations of this all season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGbZPx_HPY
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Dec 6, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I posted similar above, but without all of your awesome math. It’s more important to make this switch now, so I’m sure they won’t.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Yep
That’s one of the issues you can see from a mile away … and I bet they don’t touch it.
Bettman will cite some fan poll that says people love inter-conference games because “the final five minutes are like the sound check, where everyone’s just waiting for the show to start, and then OT is crazy.”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Right, but this will make it worse, won't it?
I mean now you’ll have 44/46 games a year where you no it absolutely cannot matter whether you let the opponent get a regulation point. At least before, it was a little muddier.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Amen.
And rec’d. I mentioned above that I believe we will be heading down the same road you mentioned (three points for a regulation win), but it will take a few years until the league looks at the attendence records and wonders why nobody is going to their team’s games in March. While the math is still the same (being a few points out of eighth nowadays with a few teams in between you and qualifiying is actually much less surmountable than people realize), when you elminate most of the teams and focus just on the one division your team plays in, people will finally understand that they are not as close as the points would indicate. And that’s when people will start clamoring for three point victories.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Dec 6, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
When you are 3 points out of the playoffs in March
You will essentially become the Pittsburg Pirates in April.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
As it is now, if you are four points out in November, you are pretty much toast.
looking up the post-lockout standings, picking the date of Nov. 1 for each year. During those six seasons, the difference between eighth place and last place in each conference ranged from four to eight points. That early, it’s difficult to create an incredible amount of separation.
Twenty teams who were not in the top eight on Nov. 1 recovered to make the playoffs. That’s an average of almost 3.5 per season. (Just to clarify, the “Top 8” includes any team with the same point total as the eighth-place team. I wasn’t going into tiebreakers so early in the season.)
Doesn’t seem so bad, right? Depends. The safety net shreds for anyone falling too far behind. Of those 20 teams, guess how many of them were more than three points out?
Two. That’s it.
- Elliotte Freedman CBC
ANA, CGY, COL, PHO have it harder than Isles
I’m glad that Isles aren’t in the division with the Kings, Sharks, Canucks, Oilers, and THREE other teams. (7 teams rather than 8 makes a big difference, when 4 teams make the playoffs from each.)
I also don’t think PIT, PHI, and WAS are locks for the playoffs for the next few years in the new setup. (They should have strong odds going into each season, but chances are at least 2 or 3 times in the first 5 years of this setup, one of them will miss the playoffs.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Dec 6, 2011 10:38 AM EST reply actions
At first
I was a bit bummed about it. I grew up essentially with the demise of the 4 division setup as I started watching the Islanders play around 92 at the ripe age of 7 years old. I was able to catch and remember the glory of that team and be pissed on by rag friends in elementary school the following year. Not literally of course, lol. So I grew up watching the current setup and knew no other really as a young kid you do not really worry about divisions and their implications on what the playoffs mean. You just know that if you keep winning your team makes it into the playoffs and well in the Islanders’ case, perpetual losing.
Then seeing the additional teams added to our division, I was a bit upset at our chances to compete as a small market team in the endless see of green the other teams spend. Then I started to read some comments and thought more and more about the rivalries and came away happy with the setup. The future is still up in the air for this team. What we know right now:
- Play in the same building until 2015, hopefully continue somewhere on the Island.
- We have some great prospects, but that is exactly where they are.
- We have most of our “core” signed, at this point they will have to get the job done, I think they can.
- Our defense is awful, hopefully that is shored up in the future.
That is really it, but I do seem the team improving so the woah is me comments about the division do not really bother me. I think in the future we will be able to take it to the other teams in the division and shoot for any of the slots. The only lock I see is Pittsburgh for say the next few years. They are just a powerhouse with the money. Everybody else can be had. With rivalries created as well, the play during the season becomes much more heated and the games are much more meaningful. Now we have to play against all the teams as we would and with the same emotions, an Islander vs Ranger game. The team definitely steps up in these outings. It swings either way sometimes, but the level of play is definitely increased. Hockey will be even more exciting if this happens. You will hate everyone in our division, which I already do.
Teams rise and fall, and the Islanders are not the only one with problems, though we are definitely trending upwards, its on the other teams to beat us now.
Plenty of other good points brought up such as Media Coverage and attendance. Both should increase and hopefully be beneficial to the Islanders. Hopefully we are not at cap floor every year, but once things needle out, we can be somewhere between the bottom and the top. I would take that 10 million currently and just spend it on two quality defenders.
Media coverage is critical and since teams heavily covered make up most of the division, the isles coverage will have to increase.
Can one be an atheist toward a hockey team? That means I have NO faith anymore.
by Turgeon1992 on Dec 6, 2011 11:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Either way, were going to have to stop
rolling over for Pitt and Philly. We’ll have to beat them each at least 2x each in regulation per season.
Hard to know whether this format is tougher for us. I don’t have the time, but I’d be curious to compare the following:
during the last 10 seasons how many pts. the 4th place team of our new “conference” had vs. how many pts. the 8th seed had in the Eastern Conference.
I just realized that this will bring back division championship games. I like that.
Can one be an atheist toward a hockey team? That means I have NO faith anymore.
by Turgeon1992 on Dec 6, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Terrible
Rolston doesn’t have the speed for FnO, so I can’t see this working out too well. I would’ve liked to see Nino in this spot, but, you know, concussion and all…
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
If so, I disagree
…and not so much because it puts Rolston on the 2nd line, but because it takes him away from a line that worked pretty well— the only line with Rolston this season that has worked pretty well.
Will Ullstrom be successful without Rolston? Probably. Will Bailey? I’m not as sure.
When you put two struggling players together (Rolston and Bailey) and they play reasonably well, why separate them?
Does Cap honestly think Rolston is the best candidate for that hole?
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Dec 6, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Bailey actually hasn't been struggling. He's played increasingly better since the Rangers game.
Playing quite well the past 7-8 games. he was the best player on the ice last night.
What does that leave for the bottom 6?
Martin-Bailey-Ullstrom
Wallace-Reasoner-Haley
Gasp…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
The first one sounds good
the second one reeks of desperation.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
way to see what that Ullstrom kid
really has to offer by giving him a shot with top 6 minutes…
“ok, Franzie, Kyle, I’m the SAME player as Grabs, just picture him out there instead of me, except, when you go to lead him with your passes, try to hit him in the butt… my lack of speed should do the rest” – rolston conversing with his new linemates
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
I would have voted to re-align the Islanders in a Western type conference or division.
Damn, have anyone looked at the islanders record vs. the West over the past couple of years? They could be 1st seed every year out in a Westren conference/division. (JK)
We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!
Damn!
2 green comments in this thread and took the the lead in FIG race, only the Islanders are hotter than me! Keep it up boys!
Positive Waves! R.I.P. Indianapolis Racers (1974-1978)
Methinks
- 3/2/1/0 points per game is an idea whose time has come
- It may date me, but I like Adams, Patrick, Norris and Smythe. It has tradition and it will make Chris Berman happy.
- We have to beat the top teams to win the Cup, so who cares if we need to beat them to get into the playoffs?
- F’n’’Ro?? Doesn’t work for me, but we’ll see.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Dec 6, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions
Love the new/old format
Steeped in the old timey, just like I grew up on. The wars in these playoff rounds…awesome Teams that hate each other, know each other inside and out.
by 7:11_OT on Dec 6, 2011 3:59 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
John Tavares is in full lament in the wake of the new rescructured conferences
- source, The Toronto Sun
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
by bob l on Dec 6, 2011 4:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
He's as good as gone
By the time he retires heheh.
Our goal is to win a Stanley Cup,
not just make the playoffs. I believe in Garth and I believe in this team. We will be an elite contender in the next few years. This reallignment will not stop the Islanders, in fact, I think playing in the toughest div/conf will only help them.
Only God saves more than Montoya
by backstop87 on Dec 6, 2011 4:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
but really sucks for some teams
Like the Western:
Thats still alot of Traveling.
Dallas must be extremely happy.
Canadian team always makes the playoffs.
Columbus screwed.
and lots of sunny vacations for the northern teams in the eastern conference.
but really sucks for some teams Like the Western:
Thats still alot of Traveling.
But there is literally no possible way for some teams NOT to travel. If your team is not on the east coast or in California, youre traveling more. That is just how it is. The NHL cannot change that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a little surprised
they didn’t put COL in the central, and make the Eastern and Atlantic the ones with eight teams, moving DET and CBJ into them.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
They speculated on the reason for that on the NHL network
The “west” teams needed this realignment far more than the “east”- and they needed a minimum of 20/30 GM votes for this to pass. They wanted to make sure the east supported this realignment even though doing it doesnt benefit them the same way it does the “west”. And they got 26/30 votes, so apparently it worked!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just got here for the fun...
So what you’re saying is that the more teams spend, the more they’ll win…
Penn State Proud
More like
The more teams can spend, the more mistakes they can afford to make/bury. The more mistakes they are allowed to bury (Washington: Nylander. Rangers: Everyone, but esp. Redden. Flyers: Leighton), the better their odds.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
My biggest worry for the Isles
Is that they do not play so well against their own division. So competing against them for playoff spot for a playoff spot will tougher than usual. Plus, I would rather not hate Carolina.
All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.
My biggest worry for the Isles
Is that they do not play so well against their own division.
Besides the Flyers, I dont necessarily think thats true. And Id personally redict it will not be true in the future. :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 6, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not to be pessimistic, but if they are still called the New York Islanders in 5 years
I will be happy.
Other than that I like the new/old realignment.
As far as the Pens go, Crosby may not be playing in 5 years. These concussions get worse with time. He may be like Eric Lindros, just a hunch.
I don't see any "name" names that would work
Even the original names were kind of ridiculous — we just tolerate them because there were some good times.
West, Central, Atlantic and East would suit me.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Which one is atlantic and which one is east?
Since both conferences have teams that are, well, both.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 10, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
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1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
