By the Numbers: Calvin de Haan's NHL Debut
by Dominik on Dec 16, 2011 1:12 PM EST
in Islanders in Diapers
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It's reflective of the difference between forwards and defensemen, and between each year's top few players and everyone else, that 2009 #1 pick John Tavares has 145 NHL points while the #12 pick from that year debuted just last night.
New York Islanders fans haven't exactly waited with bated breath for Calvin de Haan's first NHL game -- his development has proceeded normally for a defenseman, interrupted by a couple of injuries -- but there has been a steady stream of napkin-sketched dreams musing over his future slot in the lineup.
The day for those dreams hasn't arrived, but last night de Haan became the latest from the Class of 2009 to make his NHL debut. (Coming into 2010-11, 30 players and eight defensemen from the 2009 NHL draft had already appeared. Those who debuted before him include teammates Mikko Koskinen and Anton Klementyev; this year Anders Nilsson also joined the crew and de Haan is now the 23rd 1st-rounder from 2009 to appear.)
The reservation about de Haan is his lack of size, physicality and "shutdown" qualities. The promise is his mobility, puck movement and vision. Much of the former can be learned as defensemen get older. The latter is the elusive skillset for which NHL teams spend first round picks.
Calvin de Haan's NHL Debut, By The Numbers
First Hit (of two): 16:29 of the first period, on Steve "tool" Ott along the left boards. De Haan did very nicely to angle off one of the league's more physical players.
First Plus: 16:38 of the first period. Just eight seconds after his first hit, the Islanders win possession, Kyle Okposo drives left and feeds Michael Grabner's foot for the tying goal.
First Shot on Goal (of two): 2:38 of the third period. With the score tied but the Islanders shorthanded, de Haan lets go of a slapper from about 60 feet.
First Missed Shot: 18:24 of the third. With the Islanders down by one and pressing for a late equalizer, de Haan's shot goes wide of the net as he and Milan Jurcina take turns trying to fire point shots that somehow find a home.
Ice Time, by Period: 1st - 3:35. 2nd - 2:29. 3rd - 6:57. Total: 13:01
Longest Shifts: In the third period, with the Islanders trying to tie it, de Haan had separate shifts of 1:15, 1:37 and finally, 1:27 with the game winding down. All came at even strength.
Overview
In the end, he received no powerplay time in his debut but officially 1:46 of PK time in that third period. His future is likely to include -- must include, really -- significant powerplay time, but Capuano eased him into his first game, then really leaned on him (in relative terms) during the third period.
It was great, of course, to see his parents on hand for the big night. It was good to see him log significant minutes with the game on the line.
More importantly, it was good to see the skills that are advertised -- insightful puck movement, and great patience with the puck even when fishing it out of his own zone (a contrast, it must be said, to the fire-it-off-the-glass-and-hope approach favored by Steve Staios, for whom de Haan filled in). It was also good to see him not get physically dominated, although that is something that will be tested over time, in the aggregate, rather than on one night of 13 minutes work.
De Haan makes some unconventional decisions with the puck. That's part of the artist's game and how puck carrying defensemen fool forechecking forwards -- by doing the unexpected. Some of them are risky and will result in mistakes and lessons learned. But some of them are dangerous (in a good way), worth the risk for the opportunities they will create the other way. The kind of breakout poise and vision the Islanders blueline currently has in short supply.
It's going to be a process. As he has readily admitted this season and re-iterated to Newsday yesterday:
"It's taken some time to adjust to the pro game."
With Mark Eaton and Andrew MacDonald both now "game time decisions" for Saturday night in Minnesota [update: and indeed, de Haan and Kevin Poulin have been returned to Bridgeport], this process is not one we'll likely see much of in the near term. Barring further injuries {knock-knock}, this probably won't be a Hamonic situation ... yet.
The jury will still be out on this player for quite some time, and one game is just a snapshot, if that. It's a big milestone but a very minor test. But it's one de Haan passed. Long way to go, but so far, so good.
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I have a feeling...
he’s gonna be the Rick Dipietro of 12th overall picks. Looks rather average.
We could have had Kulikov, Leddy, Rundblad or Despres without giving up so damn much.
And they pretty much gave up on Spurgeon who is a contributing NHLer already.
Plus… there is a tub in the trainer’s room with his name on it already.
I’d love to see the kid grow into the a fin top four puck mover… but there is nothing yet to suggest it. But he’s still young (which is the standard rationalization). Kulikov is just as young… and it would take deHaan, Donovan and a first to get him away from Florida. Hamonic is just a year older, and a second rounder…
We wish you well Mr. Jankowski…thanks for the aftertaste!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Hey, he looked pretty solid yesterday.
I agree he may not be a top pair D man when all’s said and done. But an above average 2nd pair D-Man is quite a possibility, which is fine if we keep Hammer and AMac.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Yeah, I usually agree wwith JP
But I thought he held his own last night. Was actually pleasently surprised.
"We owe him a lot more than he owes us at this point. He's been stellar all year. He still gave us a chance to win this one, and we've got to find a way."
—C Josh Bailey, on G Al Montoya after a 5-3 loss Tuesday in Montreal.
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Dec 16, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
See my response to Garik...
we’re probably not too far off in our assessments. I just look back at the 2009 draft and all of the BS they went through to get this kid… My reply was written in the context of desperately needing defense in the organization… but they passed up a kid like Kassian (who may just prove to be an outside the lines moron) as well… something else the organization needed at the time… and STILL does.
To be honest, Katic, if healthy is a better 2011-12 option than deHaan. But they are just two points on the same circle.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I think the lesson with both Schenn/Bailey and Dehaan/whomever
is to forget about trying to outsmart everyone else at the draft, and take the best player available.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Dec 17, 2011 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
"Best" according to...?
Whoever is the consensus choice is always the right choice? What about the human factor? If you dont trust your scouting then why bother even having it? Just have players ranking averaged out by a computer and then just have them coldly dispersed to teams in that order. Does that seem like a good idea? Or do you agree that the human factor has merit?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 17, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
???
What makes you think it was Schenn/Bailey? How about Filatov/Bailey? This 20/20 hindsight thing among people who aren’t scouts and never saw these players play is beyond stupid…
Do you do anything here other then criticize people without explaining counterpoints?
Teams usually draft on either Best-Player-Available or based on team needs, or a combo of both. So someone suggesting BPA isn’t 20/20 hindsight or “beyond stupid”. He would have or could have said the same thing on draft day and it would have made sense. So please, stop your trolling criticism unless you are actually gonna explain your viewpoint instead of just bitching like you had a bad day at work and need to let it out on random people on a hockey board. Thanks
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I agree, he brought the puck out of his zone nicely
and did not seem out of position. His first shift or 2 he seemed to be standing around watching but then he started to skate
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 16, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying he's a bust...
or not an NHLer. He probably can be a solid part of this organization. An OUTSTANDING thrid pair guy with PP pop… or like you say, 2nd pair guy until better options arise. I still have more hope for Donovan and Mayfield (The Denver Connection) right now… and Pedan and Kichton should add some depth when their turn comes.
My point is that they blindly went past all of those other prospects (Heatley and Gaborik), let a similar prospect deeper in his development go (Spurgeon) and his injury history is scary at best.
Actually, this post was intended to invite TMC over to dinner… I’m sure she’ll be spending most of the afternoon on the “DP, beginning of the end” fan shot… so she’ll be hungry and geared for battle by dinner time. I think my wife is making chili… hope she likes chili.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
We'll have to disagree on this one.
(And Mayfield is really far away mind you). I think he really is going to be an above average 2nd pair guy.
(Not saying I’d have traded up to take him there mind you in retrospect, but just saying)
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Does it matter...
if I said he was white, you’d say he was black… I know my point is valid.
Even when I agree with you:
or like you say, 2nd pair guy until better options arise
you make a statement agreeing with my point and say we’ll have to disagree:
Not saying I’d have traded up to take him
Please don’t put your chocolate in my peanut butter anymore. I will do same.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
lol.
My point is that I don’t agree with the “better options arise” part.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
everybody is the best option...
until “better options arise”… and you can’t put him be in a secondary role if you can’t accept the possibility of a tertiary role…
my chocolate is running thin… and it wasn’t exactly Godiva to begin with.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I agree. I pretty much see him as a future Kaberle type player, which is exactly what you are saying.
I really don’t think his defense is ever gonna be “streit-like”.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
He is "never" gonna be a top pairing guy, I think we can rule that out because of his size/strength/development, imo.
I also see him, as Dom wrote somewhere, as one of those “ballsier” wiz-type d-men at minimum with his passing/o and likely partially with his D. That’s my reasoning for him likely becoming a kaberle-type d-man(or ehrhoff-type). I’m not sold on him being a huge offensive player yet either until I see him on a PP for a bit. I’m not saying he can’t run one well, I just wanna see it happen before I jump to giving him the reigns as a top QB PP point d-man.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Im not sure about that.
Not all top pairing guys are huge. Kenny Jonsson was what- an inch or two taller than him, tops?
And even now as a kid he still cant weigh more than 20lbs less than Kenny in his prime.
You just dont know yet, and there isnt enough info (or crystal balls lol) to say what a guy can “never” be at this point.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 16, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
I hear you guys, never say never, but it's a longshot.
Hamonic=maybe he can be a top pairing guy. He’s shown he has top shutdown abilities and puckmoving skills + hard slapshot. I wouldn’t put it past him.
But DeHaan is just so far away from being a top pair guy that I’m not even gonna imagine that ever happening. Strange things happen, but nothing in his career thus far or by his scouting reports says he’ll reach that. He’s got way too many weaknesses, development time for a high D 1st round pick is one of them and size/strength/slapshot-speed/dangerous-decision making/unagressive defensively/injuries/non-ownage of junior levels as an overager/etc. Most d-men give hints by the age of 22 if they are gonna be something or not, and most top pair d-men are good by 22 and “elite” by 24. I just don’t see it happening for him yet given everything that’s happened so far. And I’m not sure how he’s been in bridgeport, but 8pts in 22gms puts him on 25-30pts pace in the ahl, A-mac at 21yrs old put up similar numbers/gms to that in the ahl. Not bad for his 1st ahl season, but for a touted offensive d-man and high 1st round draft pick, not something you’d expect from the 20yr old. Given the road he’s had so far and development he’s taken, I’d be happy we just get a top 6 d-man out of him with puckmoving abilities.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
What kind of standard are you judging these guys by?
Hamonic can MAYBE be a top pair guy? Without even being in 100 games he has rarely seemed out of place on the ice, he plays in all situations, he handles himself physically, he has a good mind for the game on both ends of the rink… Maybe he’s not there quite yet, and you could probably pick out 60 guys in the league that are better now. How many of them will Hamonic pass before next year starts? I think he’s fine and will be fine – part of Teh Core if you like.
Calvin de Haan obviously has a ways to go with just 13 NHL minutes. Nobody’s signing him up for the Norris tomorrow, but writing him off in his first pro year seems hasty to me.
Neither of these guys has to be Potvin squared to be a top-pair quality guy.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Dec 16, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I definitely hear what you are saying, but it's a step by step process.
You and I know that Hamonic has more then held his own playing against top pairing competition in the nhl. Calling him a future top pairing d-man is fine. But that’s not the same as saying DeHaan “could” be a top pairing guy.
He wasn’t out of the draft touted like a future top pairing guy. His “scouting report” was offensive d-man that “should” hold his own in his own end/not be a defensive liability. Becoming a top pairing d-man would be going beyond his projected draft “ceiling” and beyond what most if not all people think him to be given his progress. You know and I know that there are “60” top pairing d-men in the nhl, they down fall off trees. Hamonic maturing into one is rare, DeHaan maturing into one is rare. DeHaan you could even argue wasn’t even the best offensive d-man on his team in juniors(Del Zotto out PPG’d him in his draft year and DeHart out PPG him the year after) for most of his tenure. I don’t wanna be a pessimist, but I call it like I see it. And for DeHaan being a touted Offensive d-man and touted PP QB, he really hasn’t dominated offensively anytime in juniors as an overager. He has a few weaknesses in his game. His development to the NHL level is taking longer then expected. His size/strength is gonna be a factor when dealing with nhl forwards whether we like it or not unless he puts on 15-20lbs+, and given how much weight he’s put on since his draft year, that would take another 2yrs+ as an estimate to accomplish.
I know you guys say don’t be a pessimist, but in all honesty, I look at him and don’t see as much upside as you guys do. I see a kid whose best year in juniors was oddly his draft year, but not that odd when you consider Tavares was on his team during that year. DeHaan’s offensive abilities seem overrated a bit. DeHaan hasn’t put on as much weight as one would have hoped by now. DeHaan has hit his fair share of injuries on his post-draft road. DeHaan still seems a year away, which is behind deadline.
Look, I don’t see him as being horrible, but by no means do I think he should have been a 12th overall draft pick, he likely should have been picked in the late teens or early 20’s, most boards had him in the 20’s. I just don’t get why some people love him as a prospect so much. He could change my mind, I’d gladly eat my words if he becomes a top pairing d-man. But I really don’t see that happening. I see a future Kaberle if he can put on some weight/strength and become one of the best passing d-men in the nhl, a d-man that racks ups assists and can hit people on the stick with solid passes. Run a PP fine, but not a “true” goalscoring threat because of his slapper. And play defense decently in protected minutes.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This is what I meant by trying to outsmart or reinvent the wheel.
by no means do I think he should have been a 12th overall draft pick, he likely should have been picked in the late teens or early 20’s, most boards had him in the 20’s
^ This did not outsmart anyone unless he over achieves. Now de Haan has to overachieve to justify Garths leap of faith…. I hope he does…
Yeah. He was way overdrafted, way overhyped, and now the fans think too highly of him, imo.
DeHaan “has” to become a top(not necessarily elite) offensive d-man to make most fans happy. He “has” to log over 20-21min/gm in his prime to make people happy. These are reasons why you don’t usually gamble high picks on d-men unless you think they are the sure thing. I don’t know what garth was thinking, the JT connection? Character guy? I don’t know, but all I know is he overdrafted DeHaan given his skillset and is banking very very heavily on his offensive game translating well to the NHL for him to be a success. Honestly, DeHaan doesn’t look close to being that shutdown guy, so for him to succeed he has to put up pts. It is what it is, but JP is right. DeHaan could be the RDP of 12 overall picks with his injuries and overall talents imho.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Really, all he’d have to do is outperform the dmen chosen after him. You assume Garth felt that someone else was going to pick him before 16, and moved up accordingly.
If no one else approaches elite play, then he won’t either. But it’s all relative to the other players chosen in that grouping.
Meh, draft position=projected status.
You draft a hedman or e.johnson in the top 2 picks, you expect him to become a top pair d-man. You draft a d-man in the 5-10 area, you expect them to become top 4 d-men. DeHaan is right in there. And from what I’ve seen/heard, if he can’t throw up higher offensive stats in the nhl, he hasn’t met his draft position projection. His defense isn’t his strong suit, so if his O doesn’t translate, he’s a failure @12th overall.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I disagree
only because there are strong and weak draft years. de Haan’s year was projected as deep. We’ll see. But if there wasn’t a player that was better to take at that spot, then it’s a moot point.
I see what you are saying. I just think otherwise.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Look at our top 4(3) now
Where were Streit and AMac projected at his age/stage. Don’t think he ever has a Norris in him, but top 60 d-man in the league as a peak? can’t rule it out. Kaberle was a top pair guy in Toronto in his prime.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
Currently the Isles
Really don’t have top 4 or D men.
The Islanders rely on defensemen that would be 5 or 6 anywhere else and guys in their 2nd or 3rd years.
MacDonald is being used at a #2 D man but the Isles are pressured to put him there because we have no one else.
Hamonic is going to be pretty good. But this is his sophomore year.
Plain and simple, Streit has not looked good this year. Because of the injury or because of the year off? Who knows?
The Islanders will pay for letting Martinek go. Instead we get to watch Mottou and Eaton. Anywhere else, they’d be emergency guys in the press box.
Staios has been ok, a decent 5-6 guy, again pushed up because…ain’t no one in between.
the fire-it-off-the-glass-and-hope approach favored by Steve Staios,
Ever watch the Isles in the 80’s?. That play is their bread and butter.
The NY Islanders failed to replace Martinek or to improve the defense in the off season. The Islanders defensive woes can be said in that one sentence.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
Garth screwed up somewhere on the road.
People say, who else could he have gotten? Well honestly, pretty much any 2 bottom pair d-men + Staios would have been great, eaton has been bad, mottau has been horrific. Eating the money and waiving mottau “should” have been done from the start of the season for us to truly be all about winning. DP starting in BPT and earning his way back up with that money being spent elsewhere would have been a start. Not putting $5mil of our cap money this year in Rolston would have helped. And not spending over a mil in cap money on a 4th liner. Wang seems all about cutting money losses, as a businessman that works. Trying to field an nhl hockey team it doesn’t. Trying to sell tix, it doesn’t. Trying to make money in the longterm, it really doesn’t until that eventual playoff year, but then how much have you lost to reach the playoffs yearly? I’m not crunching numbers, but Wang is losing money longterm I’d estimate then earning it with his choices. The margin of error is already thing for a low salary team, even lower when we cut corners with our salary floor payroll(DP/Yashin/Rolston/Pandolfo/Staios/Mottau/Eaton’s salary tihs year). He is somewhat forcing this team to lose and putting way too much pressure on longterm losing turning into short term success. I hope this changes sooner then later. Because with the way Wang runs the team, I would not be surprised if the isles are lost to canada or somewhere out of LI/NY with what he’s done through the milbury years and now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
That's easy to say, hard to do
I have just waved the magic hockey stick I reserve for such situations. Here are your New York Islanders:
Centers: John Taveras (3.75), Josh Bailey (1.05), Frans Nielsen (.525), Marty Reasoner (1.35)
L Wings: Matt Moulson (3.13), Michael Grabner (3.0), David Ullstrom (.892)
R Wings: PA Parenteau (1.25), Kyle Okposo (2.8), Blake Comeau (2.5), Trent Hunter (2.0), Nino Niederreiter (2.795)
Defense: Mark Streit (4.1), Travis Hamonic (.875), Andrew McDonald (.550), Mark Eaton (2.5), Milan Jurcina (1.6), Mark Katic (LTIR – .875), Calvin de Haan (1.47), Ty Wishart (.803)
Goal: Al Montoya (.601), Evgeni Nabokov (.550)
Buyouts – 3.037
This is roughly what you’ve asked the Hockey Genie to do – RDP and Mottau are gone outright to the Bridge, Pandolfo and Staios are unsigned, and Hunter has not been traded for Rolston. de Haan and Wishart are up to give six defensemen to the team, with Eaton and Comeau still around as trade chips. You have 12 forwards, 7 defenders (including Eaton), 2 goalies… so that’s 21 out of 23 roster spots filled. Ehrhoff went to Buffalo. The current cap hit for this club is just a hair over 42 million (the individual numbers are in millions, in parentheses beside each player).
You’re 6.3 million bucks shy of the floor and there’s no two players in Bridgeport who will make up the difference – not even with DiPietro’s 4.5 million. And I’m guessing that’s going to go up by Eaton’s cap hit when you get around to bundling him off.
Your move.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Dec 17, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Kyle Turris
Was just sent to the Senators for David Rundblad and a second-round draft pick.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
You’re 6.3 million bucks shy of the floor?
and isnt this the root of our problems? That our GM’s job is to reach the minimum the league will allow a team to spend? That minimum is there so that small market teams can stay competitive…It is not there so teams can cheap out and just keep their heads above water. This is what we are all about. This is why Wanger keeps everything in house. He has his ways. what ever they are.
That minimum is NOT to kep small market teams competitive
The league and the NHLPA can say that until it rains coffee and snows Timbits, and it won’t make it so. If anything a minimum like that hurts small market teams. It’s based on overall league revenue, with no guarantee that a club will earn enough individually to offset the cost. A team with young players can’t pay them enough with the ELC caps to make the floor that way, so they are forced to clog up their system with bad contracts to make up the difference, or else trade some of their future for the overpriced present. And if they make a mistake, they’re royally hosed. The Rags can bury Wade Redden in Hartford – what do the Blue Jackets or Thrashers do? They suck, or relocate, or both.
The minimum is about making sure the players get a particular portion of the overall league revenues, and that’s all it’s about.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Dec 17, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a really interesting dilemma.
And it’s weird, because you don’t force the isles to a salary floor and I think they are a better team.
1.DP=can be sent to the minors to work his way back to nhl shape, leaving Nabokov and Montoya as the 2 goalies.
2.Hunter is on the 4th line instead of Rolston on the 3rd line. And $3mil is off our cap hit for this year. Ullstrom or Martin make the 3rd line out of camp or garth fills someone in on the 3rd line that is likely better then rolston.
3. Pandolfo isn’t forced into a 4th line role and is not on the team. Small, but still.
And the isles obviously lose less money, or actually make money this year and ongoing. More revenue shares would help a lot too.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Thats a good point...
I never thought of it that way. Makes perfect sense. But if Wanger wanted to make the team a winner he needs to shoot the locks off the wallet.
It starts with trading Bailey for Komisarek...
lol. I’ll give it a try:
First, I’ll throw Nino in the minors to save an ELC year and give me $9.1mil below the floor:
Step 1:To tighten up the 3rd line, I’ll look for a center to “run” it to take pressure off ? mark Bailey and make our 3rd line “a should be” productive line one way or another:
Options: Arnott/Handzus/Belanger(Goc would be the backup plan option 1yr@3.5mil) are all offerred a 1yr deal worth $4mil-$4.5mil or a 2yr deal worth. Arnott/Handzus/Belanger are all more then capable 2-way forwards in this role and Goc would be an excellent defensive 3rd line center if those guys fail to take the offer(Honestly, Belanger takes that offer the easiest, so plug him in for 1yr @4mil.)
Step 2: Resign Hillen. 1yr@650k he signed for in Nash. So done and done. He gives our 3rd pairing a puckmover and above average skater. He can put up 25-30pts per year in this role and should be reliable defensively if paired with an above average sized d-man, which has been the perfect compliment to him in the past. Wishart or Jurcina should both work here. Wishart definitely from his dominance against bottom pair competition last year.
Step 3: Solidify the D. That leaves us with $4.5mil to spare.
Most obvious was that Liles was moved for a 2nd round pcik. I’d do that in a heartbeat to fill our top 4 d-role. He’s solid against mid-pair competition and can put up 40pts+ while manning a PP point playing 22min/gm. Done.
Possible other options if you don’t like that:
A: Package Eaton, as aspiring contract for an overpaid player signed for multiple years or 1yr that’s higher then Eaton’s:
Eaton for Brian Campbell is one. Some people won’t like having him signed for 4 more years @7mil per, but I’d defintiely consider it. His offense is great and he can play against mid-pair competition with some success. NTC, but the Panthers weren’t in a better position then us before the season, so it should be possible.
B:
MM/JT/PAP
Grabs/Nielsen/Okposo
Bailey/Belanger/Comeau
Martin/Reasoner/Ullstrom-Hunter
Bench:Hunter-Ullstrom/Haley on the bench as a sub for ullstrom/hunter when we play “tougher” teams and want a fighter/more-physical-player in the lineup.
Hamonic/A-mac
Streit/Liles(or Campbell if you prefer)
Hillen/Jurcina-Wishart
Bench:Jurcina-Wishart/Eaton
Montoya/Nabokov
You could either keep Eaton as an 8th d-man or waive him, it’s up to you. Hunter can still play a 4th line role and be productive as he is showing in LA, and Ullstrom performance last year in the A was enough for me to warrant a 4th line role out of camp if he outplayed Hunter.
So in short:
-Replace Rolston with Belanger=huge improvement for the 3rd line as a 2-way line. Should be able to get 20goals out of Comeau, at least 15 I’d guess. Betters our faceoffs. Betters our defensive specialists. And should put Bailey in a less pressure role/allow him to focus on his game more then making a line run effectively.
-Resign Hillen for depth, mobility, and puckmoving on the bottom pair.
-Trade for Liles(or Campbell) to give Streit a d-man that can actually play 2-way hockey well, be his partner on the top PP effectively, and eat 22min/gm.
-Start Wishart in the NHL as a bottom pair or bench d-man. He obviously has the skills for it as he more then excelled in the role last year and has puckmoving abilities. Don’t try and make him something he isn’t. If not, Jurcina can fill that bottom pair role with Hillen.
You make these changes and you turn our older slow defense into a younger more mobile puckmoving d from just about top to bottom. You increase our depth D depth. You have another person that can man a top PP point. You have stability and a much better 2-way 3rd line to start the season with. You are a better faceoff team. You are a better offensive team. And you have a better defensive team. All at the small cost of a 2nd round draft pick and managing a team like you should. I think this team makes the playoffs as a 7/8 seed or at least is in the hunt till the last week of march.
What pisses me off about this, is that Liles wasn’t hidden. Avs laid him on the table and said he can be had for a 2nd round pick. Garth does that, boom, top 4 hole filled.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
HA HA
You really think that would have made a significant difference? The only thing I will say for you is it is easier to be a blog GM when no one can check the outcome…silliness.
I'll ask you again to try and not be aggressive and go apeshit over opinion and speculation.
I bet you have never seen or even heard of Liles or Belanger before and have no idea what type of impact that we’d have on having them replace Mottau and Rolston, or what upgrading Mottau to Hillen would do. Or cutting off DP’s starts completely.
You might not realize the impact they have because your too idiotic to realize what a “great 2-way 3rd line” can do. Or what having “2 PP specialist 40pts d-men can do for a PP”, but actual intellectual hockey fans would. So please, go back to your troll hole while the adults have an actual “thoughtful” discussion instead of your nonsense beligerent ribble rabble. Because your ignorance and asininity is showing. Thanks.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
ELCs
First, I’ll throw Nino in the minors to save an ELC year
Doesn’t work that way.
The slide rule only works if the 18 or 19-year-old doesn’t play 10 NHL games that year.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
This was a "hypothetical", what would you do differently in the offseason thing.
Defintiely not during the season. You probably misread somewhere because I’m below the floor with the current roster Mikb gives me. lol
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I only gave you the roster you asked for
For the record, I like the Handzus and Belanger ideas. Liles for a two, I could live with. But again, this all assumes that Handzus and Belanger likes those ideas as much as you or I do. Still, I do appreciate that you’re playing along.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Yeah, I didn't in-depthly explain it to Dom.
Thanks. I am pretty sure Belanger would bite because he took 3yrs@5.2mil total to play in Edmonton, so taking $4-$4.5mil for 1yr to come to a place that’s similar is likely. Not sure Handzus or Arnott would bite, I think Arnott would because he’s jumped around for money, but I’m not sure Handzus would.
It’s a fun debate and interesting look to say “who would you go after and what would you do with this or in this situation”.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Yeah, that was a tough risk
But I was definitely interested in Belanger or Handzus in the offseason. Of course, I thought Reasoner would fill much of the same role, so…
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I agree with you Ozzy. I feel for young and naive kids like JT who were sold to stay here.
I look at him and hes usually frustrated because the team around him are below him and hes still a kid..It is a rarity to see him happy…I wish Wang would shoot the locks off the wallet and get some help for these kids…Tavares signed here to be part of the solution. Hes a loyal kid. Lets get him some fucking help, please!
It takes more then 1 move to do this.
It sucks, but it’s not an easy fix. It’s a combo of moves and even change of short term mindset to fix this. Sadly, I don’t think it’s in the cards. Or at least in the cards for the next couple years.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
It depend on your defintion of top pairing guy. Kaberle could be considered a top pairing guy, but then you could also argue Erhoff a top pairing guy too if you consider kaberle.
Both put up a lot of points and played 24-25mins/gm in their primes, but both played sheltered even strength minutes and both were used heavily in offensive roles(lots of O-zone starts and PP mins). That’s how you use talented offensive d-men with some defensive weaknesses. That’s how MAB has been used throughout most of his career. Would teams like to have Erhoff and Kaberle in their prime on their time? Probably, but are those guys overrated overall because of their flashy offensive skills and numbers? Yeah. Give me a choice between kaberle and robidas in their prime, I’m going with robidas. Kaberle vs Hamhuis? Hamhuis. Bieksa vs Kaberle? Bieksa. I personally think PP specialist d-men are overrated a lot because of their o-skills. Are they nice to have? Sure, but give me a d-man that can play against the other teams top competition eating minutes and some PK time while more then holding his own and putting up 15-20pts/yr, and I’ll take that any day over a PP specialist with some d-issues.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Looks rather average.
I don’t agree for one reason-the only player who really has an understanding and knack of what to do with the puck in the offensive zone in a real difference making way is Streit. In the little I’ve seen from de Haan he has that too. He makes plays that stand out-even just small dekes that let him make some space to get the puck to the net. And he has that low shot/pass that can often pinball its way in.
I don’t know if he’ll be able to stick-I haven’t seen enough of him in our own end, but already I’ve seen him make plays other guys in the organization don’t.
You saw that in one limited game...
you must have crystal balls.
I kid… But I’ve watched him in the slower and less demanding AHL… not so great. Wishart and Katic are superior to him at this stage of his development.
The one bit of reasoning I could offer is that compared to the rest of the healthy defense not named Streit (not recently either) or Hamonic(when he has a supportive partner) he’s Paul Cofffey.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I'm including
last year and this year’s preseason as well, but yea, small sample size. But for what I’m saying small sample size doesn’t really matter-he’s doing things no one else on the roster is. Wishart and Katic SHOULD be much more developed overall at this point, but I still don’t think they’ll bring what CdH can to the table. Whether CdH can get everything else on a par with the other guys is the question, but again, Wishart can’t crack the worst defensive corps in hockey-are we really holding our breath on this guy?
If he’s half of Paul Coffey, I’d be ecstatic.
Probably
My one hope is that maybe they are letting these guys develop some chemistry together at BP and are going to make wholesale changes at some point.
not that you need my acceptance...
but I see your point. I think CDH has some talent, but he was WAY OVERSOLD at the 2009 draft table…. WAY OVERSOLD.
We’ll see.
And spend $7 to see a BPT game and let me know if you think Wishart should be playing in front of Mottau and Eaton. He is in purgatory… the purgatory that 24 goals bought Comeau out of. Both parties are suffering because Wishart refuses to initiate contact… and I don’t blame the organization for applying some tough love if that indeed is the reasoning.
Donovan will pass him by soon, and maybe even Klementyev. When you are that deep on a terrible defensive team… you better have your agent working OT finding a deal that gets you out.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
And we did give up a lot of darts to get him-I forget what the grand tally was since it got so convoluted, but I never thought that was that big of a deal.
I don’t need to go to BP to see that Wishart is better than Mottau, this guy would be a better choice than Mottau:
But he certainly hasn’t made it impossible for them to keep him down. Of course he was the same way in TB, so we probably shouldn’t be surprised.
He'd stay upright more often than Mottau, to be sure
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Sometimes guys play better up a level as well, if you playing with a half wit you can't expect him to understand the unexpected.
Not saying this is true in de Haan’s case since I have seen a very small sample size, but if he has the creativity we are looking for it just may take a player like Tavares to fully appreciate what he brings and be able to read and anticipate what he is going to do..
I'm going to agree with you
as of right now. I still think he has a lot of developing to do before we really see what we have in him. You’re right, at such a young age his injury history already is scary. He has offensive ability, what bothers me is his size and future ability to actually defend the crease against a lot bigger NHL players.
Only time will tell if we were better off getting a Kulikov, Leddy, or Erixon. Most mid first round picks dont pan out like had hoped, but the fact Snow traded up to get him and has already seemed to boned up the Koskinen pick, if de Haan fails, it will be a bigger deal than most other 12th overall picks.
Fast and furious coverage of the slow and steady rebuild
by Chris McNally on Dec 16, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
remember...
he’s gonna be the Rick Dipietro of 12th overall picks
that was my original point. all supporting thoughts are to support that theory. That is not in and of itself, “damning”… it’s just stating that he is a 12th overall version of RDP.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
With that I was agreeing
The rest was just my own ramblings about him.
Fast and furious coverage of the slow and steady rebuild
by Chris McNally on Dec 16, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Overdrafted, overhyped, arguably injury prone.
In otherwords a management mistake.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Sorry
But that’s ridiculous to say after 13 minutes in the NHL.
by Dorfer on Dec 17, 2011 2:48 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
Ozzy wasn't saying CdH was those things, he was just answering my question.
Thanks Ozzy. I don’t get the feel that CdH is any of those. I think he’s a smart player and a high character guy and he’ll be a fine NHL player. DP was used as some sort of bizarre media front by Milbury.
by Les Beaver on Dec 17, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My fault
I get easily confused reading on the iPhone app. Sorry Ozzy
by Dorfer on Dec 17, 2011 3:07 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
And you know he will fail because of....
your prescient hockey knowledge? Scouting experience?
My Crystal Ball tells me things......lol
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
It's all speculation. Even people predicting him to be a top 4 d-man that puts up 40pts/yr is just speculation.
Don’t get all flustered and angry because I’m giving a prediction “from my opinion”. As I see you are attacking JP with your response.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
That is a ridiculous analysis...
No reason whatsoever to believe that he will be worse, better, or equal to those guys…yet.
How about nhl readiness, nhl experience, productivity in the nhl, and more stats that say otherwise?
Please, do your HW before you keep spouting more angry BS in your posts. Thanks
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I've been waiting....
I was pretty excited when they traded up to get CdH.
I was pretty bumbed when he got hurt that next season.
I was pretty excited (again) when he was called up.
In the end, here’s my assessment:
CdH > many, many times > Staios.
I liked his game last night.
Kept it simple. Did have a “deer in the headlights” moment early on, but by the end he looked good. Nice passes, poised. Wouldn’t mind if he stuck.
I think he look great and like Ulstrom,
he did not look out of place. I think he will surprise a lot of us next year. He is also listed at 6 – 1 190, not really that small considering he can probably add 10 lbs easily and gain a lot more lowerbody strength during the offseason. He is a first year pro and he will learn how to better train and what he needs to do on the ice.
My favorite part of his on ice time is when Howie first said: de Haan to Tavares. Just sounded good.
Supposedly he's up to around 200
Not small exactly, but very much average to low-average among NHL D-men.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
De Haan and Poulin back to the bridge per Stape
AMac, Eaton and Nino all going on the trip (I’d assume Nabby too)
by BaltimoreIslander on Dec 16, 2011 2:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
too bad
there’s always hope that the whole team passes by Mottau at the airport…and he gets stuck there… oh… he only lets the other team whiz by.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
He only runs into his own teammates
Or falls down in a heap at the slightest adversity. It is a real clusterf&*k at check-in.
Success was survival and, kid, it still is
by IslesFanInNJ on Dec 16, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Paging Mike Mottau...
Can Mike Mottau come to the Delta Passenger assistance desk.
Are you mike Mottau…
No, I’m Andrew Macdonald, Mike is doing snow angels in the men’s room… it’s kinda like a ritual with him, and we don’t like to disrupt each other’s superstitions.
Okay, can you tell him that your new captain, Frans Nielsen, has changed his seat. It’s the first time I’ve ever had to assign somebody a seat in the plane’s rest room.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
WHY?!?!?!?!!
MORE MOTTAU KDJG:LKSJDGKLSDGJ
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Snow angels in the MSP airport
This is usually preceded by a foot tap.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Dec 16, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you know...
I was think that “foot tapping” might have something to do with why S Wishart is in Bridgeport.
Please direct all hate mail to:
The Hockey Rainbow
c/o JPinVA
PO Box 6942
Middleton VA 23109
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
OT....jerk milbury getting charged
what a jackass. but we already knew that
we went into
in depth in the previous fanshot thread about practice
"I really wouldn’t wish rooting for both the Isles and Blues on anyone." Dominik
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
old news
but i couldnt resist. karma’s a bitch
I wish he could have gotten 2-3 games.
it is not bad to get a smell of the NHL and then go back down. it gives you an idea of what you need to work on
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
Me, too.
I liked what I saw.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 16, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Big Picture ...
I’ve been keeping my big mouth shut most of this season … Intent on observing, reading and withholding commentary. So now I’m going to open my big fat mouth … because I haven’t been happy with most of what I’ve seen … even from our saviors.
Dom’s article pretty much encapsulates the whole CdH saga in a nutshell … I will however add that perhaps the drafting of Johnny T first overall in that draft kinda muted the urgency of how good that pick had to be a bit. Garth was able to take a gamble without incurring the wrath of the fan base with that 12th overall pick. Remember the torches were out in 2008 for the trade down to take Bailey … and some of the assets acquired in moving down were cashed in along with the pick acquired for Campoli in order to select de Hann. So I expect a lot more from the pick itself for the assets surrendered to get de Hann.
I expect a lot more from a 12th overall pick in a deep draft like 2009 than what de Hann was projected as. If he becomes a crafty offensive defenseman with defensive and injury issues I cannot then hang my hat up on the crown of good will and be happy with that pick. To me … de Hann has to exceed the expectations scouts assigned to him at the time of the draft. Period.
I find it interesting to hear the commentators and journalists that follow other teams in this league on NHL Home Ice … as they describe those teams’ developing players, prospects and budding young stars. They all seem to remind us the listener / fan … that most 1st rounders are immensely skilled, talented and hard working … it’s what a team does with the raw ability of a player in developing them into star caliber players … more times than not it’s the organization’s development plan that helps a player achieve his potential.
Specifically what struck me is what the journalist for the Nashville Preditors said about Shea Weber. He mentioned how he was a 2nd round draft pick chock full of potential … and having as good a chance as anyone from his draft class to develop … but he just wasn’t ready for NHL prime time even with his natural gift of size. He debuted 30 months after being drafted… (In essense Calvin beat Shea Weber since it’s almost 29 months for CdH).
They went on to discuss how Shea’s work ethic and constant support and hands on approach from the organization while he was developing really made a difference. Adding that it’s very tough for an organization like Nashville being in a non-traditional market and lacking champion pedigree alumni that revolve around the organization to help the prospects along.
They also discussed how EVERY NHL team talks up their prospects and tells the media how their draft went very well… and that they can’t wait to have the kids up with the big club in the near future. The convo evolved into the Detroit prospect development system … and we all know that story.
Then I thought of the Islanders … a team whose had and still does have decent support from their champion alumni … but it hasn’t really translated into prospect gold. Let’s be real here … Unless the alumni are actively involved with day to day ops of the team … and you have outstanding coaching in the AHL, and NHL your players are going to develop on a very very slow curve … and by the time “they get it” … they’re already past their physical prime.
We’ve talked many times about how Garth made some good pickups of re-treads (Matty Moulson etc.) and turned them into bonafide NHL players … but really … Perhaps they were mishandled and the Isles were a perfect team for these players to emerge? It wasn’t like the Isles’ staff worked with these players for years. It was almost as if a switch were turned on. Where do they find “the switch” with their own prospects?
I look at the Islanders’ AHL teams over the past 15 or so years … and quite honestly … aside from when Bridgeport did well with RDP in net … and Butchie coaching the Grizzlies in the IHL in the 90s … there really has been nothing to brag about. I just hope CdH exceeds my high expectations … because this team needs a huge injection of top notch skill, talent and fight.
by 19 Isle in NJ 22 on Dec 16, 2011 7:28 PM EST reply actions
I thought CdH was supposed to be a top dman and a guy to be excited about...
It looks like Isles fans don’t expect that from him…I haven’t watched him play so I have no idea. But if he turns out to be a 2nd or 3rd pair dman it would be a huge disappointment and a waste of a top draft pick. The NY Islander always reinventing the wheel…Instead of picking the best player available Garth decided to outsmart common knowledge. I hope you guys are wrong and he turns out to be another Mark Streit but if you’re right it really would suck for us…This rebuild was based on the draft. If these draft picks are busts the rebuild is a bust.
I'm going to disagree for two reasons:
1. I’m kind of an asshole and that’s just what I do.
2. I think it’d be good for all of our prospects to not have fan expectations thrust upon them. I think, as an example, Detroit prospects get picked, then sorta disappear from the fans eyes for a while, then, “hey, look at this guy, he’s pretty good for a young guy. Nice,” kicks in. That is, I think, a big part of bringing along prospects correctly.
by Les Beaver on Dec 17, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can appreciate how lowered expectations might help a take pressure off.
I just don’t know if choosing him so high up in the draft was a smart move. In fact, that’s where the pressure would come from, more than from the fans. It would come from being picked so high up that it pressures him to justify it….
Would you be happier
If Garth tried to outdumb people? I don’t get this sentiment people keep saying. Of course he’s trying to outsmart people. That’s his job.
by Dorfer on Dec 17, 2011 11:03 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 4 recs
Oh, come one...You're being a wise guy now...Did he really outsmart anyone???
Wang tried to outsmart everyone by signing DP to 15 yrs…Hows that for outsmarting conventional wisdom? Its moves like this that ruin a rebuild and a team…There is a difference between outsmarting and reinventing the wheel…I’m tired of the Isles trying to reinvent the wheel.
On the subject of CdH
And not RDP, who is the Islanders’ version of Godwin’s Law, I don’t see how Garth was “reinventing the wheel.” He traded up to get the guy he (presumably) coveted. It’s the draft, teams do that, and teams also go “off the board” all the time. Did the Jets reinvent the wheel when they took Mark Scheifele?
by Dorfer on Dec 17, 2011 2:33 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
This is getting redundant but the Isles are always "reinventing the wheel"...
Thats what they do…We had a “merry go round” of goalies. We got rid of our best scout. Allowing a pro GM to walk after a day because he wanted to do things in his proven, professional, style, and then replacing him with a back up goalie. Wangs DP signing. Allowing a “mad man” to run wild with the organizations assets. Getting rid of Jaffe, one of the best analysts in the NHL. Getting rid of toughness, the toughness that made this team better last year. I can go on and on. But that would be redundant as well…
Sorry to bring up the past but Im just saying that its a recurring theme. But at least we are resigning the young guys that are looking to be the core.
I would put my position this way
I expect top 5 picks to be stars of some sort. The degree depends upon that year’s class.
Every one else, I expect half of all other first-rounders to end up as good NHL players. I expect every team to every once in a while stumble into players from the 2nd and beyond who turn into surprisingly wonderful players.
So I thought CDH sounded like a bit of a reach then, but not enough of one for me to go all TEAM IN CRISIS mode on draft day because draft picks are little degrees of crapshoot on a narrow spectrum of crapshoots. For me it’s more important to collect many rolls of the dice (multiple picks when possible) and not get too crazy with them (de Haan doesn’t count as crazy for me, Mikko-and-Anders back-to-back might count, trading Luongo to draft another goalie #1 definitely counts) than it is to get exactly right who should’ve been 12th vs. 18th, 42nd vs. 53rd.
Six, 12, 18 months later the rankings in the pool inevitably change, then change again. It’s the nature of pr*j*ct*ng kids. I hope they all work out for the best of course, but they don’t much worry me until they either become real NHLers or real busts.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
CDH
Nothing more to add to this excellent discussion except to ask, " How long does Snow get to show that this team can make the play-offs? It was suppose to be a possibility last season, a very good shot this season, and now it’s just a matter of a short time when everyone agrees that it isn’t this season either. Frankly if CDH is to be one of our saviors next season on the blue line, with what we have left from this seasons disaster, than I certainly would not bet real money on a post season next year. Unfortunately most would agree that Snow stays as long as Wang owns this team. So if you agree with this logic, than we root for the Isle’s because we are loyal fans who have no other recourse, except to exercise our frustrations at this site with thanks to Dom.
It was suppose to be a possibility last season, a very good shot this season, and now it’s just a matter of a short time when everyone agrees that it isn’t this season either.
You cannot predict with certainty when everything will just click. You think you can, you want to believe you can, but you cant. Thats why 14 teams DONT make the playoffs every single season.
I dont think there were any objective people saying “a very good shot this season” I think THIS season was (is) the “possibility”. But, you obviously think otherwise. I personally think that you are holding fans own optimism against them, Im just not sure why.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
The preseason survey of LHH.............
That poll showed that the largest number of fans on this site believed that we would finish 8 or higher.
IDK, I dont think so.
I think there was an optimistic plurality picking one choice, but not a majority.
Youd have to lump them together in playoffs v non-playoffs to see.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 17, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I thought we had a pretty good chance to make it.
I dont think the moves Garth made helped in the least bit. Except signing the young core guys
I'd Garth's moves were poor ones
What made you think they had a good chance at the playoffs?
by Dorfer on Dec 17, 2011 11:05 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'll take a shot
Reasoner hasn’t been as good as advertised, Comeau slumped to the point we had to get rid of him, Bailey got dragged down by Comeau, Streit was back so that was a plus, goaltending was improved by keeping Montoya and Nabakov showing up, and nobody really expected the FnGO line to slump so hard off the bat.
Nobody really had faith in the defense much before the start of the year but I don’t think any of us realized how their poor puck movement would really hamper our forwards.
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
by ArsenalLI on Dec 17, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
A lot of us (aka Me) expected more progressions from Comeau, Bailey and Okposo especially. All three got off to horrendous starts and one guy got dumped for nothing. I think the prevailing wisdom was that the D would suck, but the offense and Montoya would take care of itself. Didn’t quite happen that way.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
the offense is hampered by a bad defense...
We need guys like Meyer who can skate and make a good 1st pass to get the offense going.
I thought letting Zeke, Meyer, Hunter, and Marty were bad moves from the get go...
But I was sold by many that Reasoner and Rolston were upgrades and would help the team get better…But Garth was wrong and so was everyone who were on board. We now lack toughness…Zeke is gone and Haley doesnt play. Meyer was small but fast and laid out great hip checks…Marty was a solid dman and both are better than Staois, Mottau, and Eaton…But again, I was sold on these moves being up grades although I wasn’t happy with these moves when they first transpired…Now we are slower and lack toughness and an attitude….
upgrades
I think Reasoner does more for this team than Konopka did. No offense yet to speak of, and that’s disappointing… but he’s doing great on the faceoffs and not leading the league in fighting majors or penalty minutes. Those are positives. And hate him or not, Rolston HAS been better than Trent Hunter, who only had four points in 17 games last season, and only managed four more in 18 games as a King – a team with a better collection of talent around him than the Isles can ice. Rolston does a lot of frustrating and bizarre things, and he hasn’t been what I’d call good, but Hunter was essentially sunk cost. To turn him into any sort of asset was a positive move even if that move hasn’t worked out well for the Isles.
At the very least, Rolston’s off the cap at the end of the year, doesn’t have to be bought out, and the Isles can move forward.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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by mikb on Dec 17, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Jury
But I was sold by many that Reasoner and Rolston were upgrades and would help the team get better…But Garth was wrong and so was everyone who were on board.
I think all of those assertions are still quite debatable at best, frankly.
Heh, if you think Isles fans are tough on Rolston, you should hear Kings fans discuss Hunter.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Why are the kings tough on hunter?
His corsi is great, and he’s being offensively productive in a low minute role?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Replace "Hunter" for "Rolston" in every statement you see here
subtract money, and you’re there.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
lol. I guess it all depends on perspective.
I’m a kings fan and Hunter joins the team, I’m expecting a 4th liner. I’m an isles fan and Rolston joins the team, I expect a 3rd liner. Rolston’s been bad in his role and makes $3mil more, but Hunter’s actually been pretty solid corsi and offensive productivity wise. It’s not like Hunter is manning their top PP unit and sucking or anything. lol. We are much worse off, especially value/dollar with Rolston compared to them and hunter.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This team is better without Rolston.
Thats telling
They've had Hunter on the first line at times
and on the PP (pretty sure)…with very predictably poor results…here’s some weird similarities from Jewels from the Crown
- Relied on Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter for “veteran leadership.” (What’s wrong with the Kings)
- http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2011/12/17/2643509/good-idea-to-scratch-andrei-loktionov-in-favor-of-trent-hunter
- http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2011/12/10/2626035/moreau-hunter-my-thoughts-exactly
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
They’ve had Hunter on the first line at times
and on the PP (pretty sure)…with very predictably poor results…here’s some weird similarities from Jewels from the Crown
WHY??
First line power player, Trent Hunter??
Talk about misuse of a player, holy crap.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Dec 18, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Time to part with Mottau
Waive this guy now PLEASE!
CDH goes back down. A-Mac & Eaton are on their way back.
I’d play Reese over Mottau, even after seeing CDH one game, I’d rather play him then Mottau.
This guy flat out sucks. GOD forbid he gets in the way of a shot to block it. God forbid he throws a check. When he’s in his own end, I cringe and wait because it’s only a matter of time before he sidesteps a hit… Then gives away the puck.
I'm with you. Mottau has actually looked better the past couple of games, and that's not good.
He’s bringing nothing. Let him go. The only upside to keeping him is it makes BPT better.
for better or worse...the kids have passed the vets on depth chart imo
top 12 forwards, i’d put Reasoner, Rolston and Padolfo 10, 11, 12…Bailey, Ullstrom and Martin as 7, 8, 9 and of course we all know the top six…
bottom 3 D and the 7th D men are obviously Jurcina, Eaton Staois and Mottau, aside from Streit, Amac and Ham are way ahead of them…
in Goal, old Nabby is a stop gap and DP is 3rd out of 3, contract aside. Poulin will soon pass DP, probably Nillson too in another year.
The only thing i am convinced of is that the rebuild has to be finished by 2015…no owner wants a lousy rebuilding team in a new building, poor marketing potential…that means worse case scenario, this team has to be back into the playoffs on a regular basis by 2015.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Dec 17, 2011 7:41 AM EST reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
