Snow needs to make a trade NOW
by davesy22 on Nov 8, 2011 6:40 PM EST
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PrintI know it's early, but Snow needs to make a trade. Some way to let the team know that the way they are playing is not ok. That the playoffs really are expected this season.
I think the best assets to trade right now are Blake Comeau, Josh Bailey, and obviously Evgeni Nabokov. Comeau has 0 points in 12 games. Bailey just 1 and is playing on the 4th line. And Nabokov is the odd man out of the goalie circus. Okpos may be an option but with the 5 year contract and 3 points in 12 games, I doubt there would be any takes.
But what are these 3 worth? Will we get good returns?
Is Bailey worth a 1st round pick anymore? Is Nabokov still tradeable for a 2nd rounder?
I would love to hear your comments and other people you think should/could be traded for good returns.
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I can't think of any thing good they could get for Comeau or Bailey at this point
As for Nabakov, I don’t think he is that good of trade bait yet. I’d say wait. It seems a little to early to shake things up yet.
All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.
Nabokov cannot really be "bait" though
Since he has a NTC, he is only going where he wants to go… the bait might attract teams, but many of them are not allowed to really snap at it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well I'm hopinh he waives his rights
I would assume that a three goalie rotation is not his style.
All Who Oppose Grabner Shall Perish.
I think he will
But its gonna be for where he (and his family) want to go, not necessarily where the Isles will get teh best deal for him.
And I honestly dont blame the guy, either- thats the reason that players negotiate NTCs in the first place, and its their right to only waive them if they think its the right move for them personally.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Relax; only 12 games into the season. Bailey and Comeau probably wouldn't bring much back right now, and to be honest, if a 2nd rounder is all we could get for Nabokov, with DP's injury history, I'd just hang onto him for now also.
Unless we were getting a game changer, like Suter/Weber, or Semin, I’d probably just stand pat and wait for our young guys to figure it out.
Good point with DP
He screws everything up :(
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 8, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Wake up
We’re not getting any of those players this year
by edavidmorris on Nov 8, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
I Cant speak for Metzan22
But I think thats a given.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
They should Nabby and Montoya until they can trade Nabby
Sit DiP and ride the other 2. Even with DiP’s history, I would be fine with one of the Bridgeport trio coming up to backup Montoya.
If it comes to that, it would probably make sense to rotate them through a week or 2 at a time as NHL backups so they still get game action with the Sound Tigers 2/3 of the time and 1/3 of the time with the NHL coaches.
This is unreasonably unfair to DP. Why should he sit? He's playing pretty well right now. If he earns playing time, he should play.
by Metzfan22 on Nov 9, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The best thing that can happen for DiP is to move Nabby
But that won’t happen if he plays once every 2 weeks.
True, but you said it should be Nabby and Montoya until they can trade Nabby. Why? And why would the Bridgeport guys be automatically better suited than DP to play?
DiPietro has played pretty well this year. If he earns playing time, he should play. Don’t overdo the hatred of DP. I know he’s got a long contract and gets hurt a lot, but when the guy is playing well, he should play.
But lets not underdo DP and current situation: his injury history and contract and the fact we need to win games
The predicament really is/was this: we need to play DP enough to know he’s healthy and can be at least be a backup(is this really even an answerable question though since the injury bug can hit at anytime; on face value I would say we know enough that he can still play as at least a backup)); Nabby needs to play enough to show his trade value, because he’s the only one that is worth moving and makes sense to move (at least to the masses, I get a few here and there love Nabby and want to keep him), BUT, the majority wants to win now, sees a future with Montoya, thinks he deserves the shot, and wants him to play……. AND, I don’t hate DP at all, I think the guy has loved the organization, has done everything he could to come back from numerous injuries etc etc. I’m one of the very few that is relatively ambivalent to his situation. If he was playing on his head doing great I’d want DP to play —he’s not though. The final problem in all this is, we need to win games now, and do we have the time to play DP to see if he’s healthy enough and do we have the time to play Nabby to increase his trade value….at the potential downfall of giving a game or two away sitting the best of the 3. Luckily they all have played fairly well. Goalie has not been the problem at all, but Montoya has been the most consistent and steady! The big problems are 3-4 underachieving prospects and some very ordinary to below average FA signings that are giving us little. At this point, I’d play Montoya and Nabby. Is it really going to hurt us if DP doesn’t play. I think the greatest short term needs at this point are: win games and trade Nabby. With DP sitting, we know there’s less of a chance that he gets hurt at least. If our record was better I’d perhaps hedge a different way, but right now I want two things met: play the goalie that appears to give us the best chance at winning…and play the goalie that we can trade that might help our team. DP seems healthy enough to be a back up for now, but he’s not moveable and he’s not playing the best of the three.
by NewIsles on Nov 9, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, we could trade montoya if he continues to play out of his gizzard.
But that really isn’t great for us next season if he plays great and we trade him for say a 2nd or a prospect. But the whole question of above average goalies vs average goalies is argued to be minimal, so maybe Montoya is more expendable then people think if he plays great. I do agree on pretty much everything else you’ve said though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I can buy that, he might yield more via trade, but you have to admit
there is a much greater sense of security keeping Montoya than being left with a 36 year old goalie that didn’t want to come here, a goalie that has a chronic injury history, and a few young goalie prospects BP.
We can never know if Ricky will be healthy to be a starter or backup for a long term
In some ways this is the nature of sport, anyone could get injured in any game or practice.
They traded Roloson last year when they thought that Ricky had turned a corner health-wise and then he was injured a couple of games later.
Which would have still been OK...
if every other goalie didnt get injured, as well.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Let me clarify
1) I think Nabby is the most likely to be traded, although Montoya could be traded as well (not my preference). DiPietro’s contract is untradeable.
2) I don’t think that the Bridgeport guys are better suited to backup, just that given Ricky’s injury history, those guys constitute an adequate fallback in case of an injury.
3) Ricky should play if he earns playing time, but the 3-headed goalie situation needs to be resolved first, then he and Montoya (or Nabokov) can fight it out.
4) Ricky is not, based on a very small sample, playing better than the other two.
1) I think Nabby is the most likely to be traded, although Montoya could be traded as well (not my preference). DiPietro’s contract is untradeable.
Agreed.
2) I don’t think that the Bridgeport guys are better suited to backup, just that given Ricky’s injury history, those guys constitute an adequate fallback in case of an injury.
Im wondering, how come?
3) Ricky should play if he earns playing time, but the 3-headed goalie situation needs to be resolved first, then he and Montoya (or Nabokov) can fight it out.
I see them all playing, but I agree that things will not go on 3-headed all season.
Thing is- if Snow wants to get more for Nabokov (not that he will get that much, just relatively speaking) then he might have to wait til the trade deadline… I dont think a lot of people would be happy about that, but I dont think they would be happy getting virtually nothing for Nabokov, either.
4) Ricky is not, based on a very small sample, playing better than the other two.
I dont see how thats true. You really cannot get much closer stat-wise than these three guys.
GOALIES:
#~~~Goalie~~~~~~~~GPI~~GS~~Min~~~GAA~~W~~L~~OT~~SO~~SA~~ GA~~Sv%~~ G~~A~~PIM
35~~Al Montoya~~~~~5~~~~4~~~283~~~2.12~~2~~2~~~0~~~0~~~139~~10~~.928~~~0~~ 0~~~0
20~~Evgeni Nabokov~5~~~~5~~~256~~~2.81~~1~~3~~~0~~~0~~~135~~12~~.911~~~0~~ 0~~~0
39~~Rick DiPietro~~~ 4~~~~3~~~180~~~2.67~~1~~1~~~2~~~0~~~~83~~~8~~.904~~~0~~ 1~~~0
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
(not that stats tell you much of anything at this point (IMO they tell us practically nothing) but if you are looking at them, I dont see how you can say any goalie is unquestionably in 3rd place out of them.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
This may be the case where we have to use that "quality start" metric
because to some degree you’re right here…because of the fact that sv% inherently uses a lot of decimal places in the math, .928 is looked at as being “24” points higher than .904, but the reality is, that accounts for 24 goals on 1000 shots…which clearly, nobody is close to. Realistically, it is 2.4 goals on 100 shots (about 3 games) which DP hasn’t even seen yet and can turn on a dime given one good or bad performance by anyone.
Maybe I will keep that as a season long stat to review. As I’ve said, my position with the goaltending situation is that on the eye test, I feel like DP is doing some things that I don’t like (overplaying lateraly, going down early, not getting up, misplaying) that have yet to be obviously exploited, but I feel like will probably happen. That’s what’s driving my wish to play the others ahead of him. But even the QS thing at this point would probably reveal very little.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I don’t think that anyone is unquestionably 3rd place out of them. I said that it is a small sample. There is a definite difference between a .904 and a .928 save %. If that held over a longer period, it would be about (.8 goals) an extra goal per game.
I really want Ricky to do well and to get back to his pre-injury all star level. I think that Ricky bleeds Islander blue and orange.
I also don’t think that the goaltenders have been the problem in any way for this team.
I want the team to maximize the return and minimize the distraction when they trade one of them. I think the best way to do that is to showcase the tradeable goalies. In the short term that will cost Ricky playing time but will be better for him and the team in the long run.
As for the Bridgeport guys, maybe I have not been clear. I want the goalies on the NHL team this year to be Ricky and Montoya. Some posts have worried about trading an NHL because Ricky could get hurt again. I believe that if one of the remaining 2 NHL goalies got after a trade, either Poulin, Nilsson or Koskinen could serve as an adequate back-up, spending most of the time on the bench. I also thought that, in order to not stunt any development, they could rotate the backup slot if there was a long term injury at the NHL level.
I don’t think that anyone is unquestionably 3rd place out of them. I said that it is a small sample. There is a definite difference between a .904 and a .928 save %. If that held over a longer period, it would be about (.8 goals) an extra goal per game.
The thing is that the definite difference doesnt really exist with this little to work with- like Keith pointed out, these numbers are close enough and the sample size is SO small that amazing games or a huge blowout or two can (and at times likely will) shuffle the three of them around a bit.
I want the team to maximize the return and minimize the distraction when they trade one of them. I think the best way to do that is to showcase the tradeable goalies. In the short term that will cost Ricky playing time but will be better for him and the team in the long run.
I understand the reasoning there- however, I just dont think Rick is enough of a ‘known’ for them to do that yet. If he doesnt get starts, the organization will just not know if he can handle it. The temptation to presume he will be fine is always there, but it has burned this organization before.
As for the Bridgeport guys, maybe I have not been clear. I want the goalies on the NHL team this year to be Ricky and Montoya. Some posts have worried about trading an NHL [goalie because Ricky could get hurt again. I believe that if one of the remaining 2 NHL goalies got after a trade, either Poulin, Nilsson or Koskinen could serve as an adequate back-up, spending most of the time on the bench. I also thought that, in order to not stunt any development, they could rotate the backup slot if there was a long term injury at the NHL level.
OK, I understand what you were saying. Honestly I dont know if its that you were unclear or if it was my own eyeballs that didnt quite get what I was reading. It was kinda late lol. FWIW, I pretty much agree with you here.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 11, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
And the new wild card
If the rumor that Mikko has an offer to play in Finland is true and he takes it, that is another big problem for trading Nabby. Because if you’re down to just AM and DP and KP and AN in BPT and DP’s health (or play) is still up in the air, you again have to find an ECHL keeper for BPT (or make yet another goaltending trade).
God I just wish the whole thing would come to some kind of conclusion already. It’s insufferable. Plus we fight over it. Tiresome really.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
If you can get a 2nd rounder for Nabokov and he is willing to waive his NTC, you better grab that offer quick.
Goaltenders may be the most valuable player on the ice and the most undervalued in a trade. There are just so few goaltender slots, so few goaltenders that really set themselves apart and those that do aren’t going anywhere. What’s left are about 20 comparable guys that every team needs, but that 19 teams already have.
I don't think
a package of BC/Nabokov is going to bring back what people want, which is a useful defenseman. Those are harder to come by than streaky wings and aging backup goalies. Throw in a high pick from us, and maybe it happens.
Tavares is Tavares.
Real question................
Is Snow on the phone trying to make a trade? Horse trading is sometimes defined as trading a slow horse for a faster one by making the other trader think the opposite. Best positive example of that was getting Sreit from the Habs. Unfortunately since then we have not done as well. With all the good prospects in the pipeline maybe an excellent big two way #1 pair D for a #1 pik is the answer. Good example of that type of deal helping both teams is the Taylor Sequin/ kessel deal betweem the Habsand Bruins.
Streit was an UFA
Montreal undervalued him, Snow did not and “overpayed” for him.
They are worth minimal. At best, people look at Comeau as a 15-20goal scorer, at best people look at Bailey as an average 3rd liner,
at best people look at nabokov as an averagish/average+ goalie. We really can’t expect much from them. Their want value is low, besides comeau and nabokov for bad teams. I’d expect tops a 3rd rounder for each, Bailey questionable though. Bailey’s regression last and this season is terrible and he’s not worth much at all right now. Together comeau and nabokov likely won’t fetch more then a 2nd rounder, and that’s only if we see a team that needs both, highly unlikely. We are really up craps creek. Not that I suggest it, but if you really want to see improvements on the ice through trade, we need to dig into our future draft picks and prospect pool. A 2nd rounder I’d bet would solve our defensive problems short term, maybe even a prospect and a 2nd could get us a guy signed for a couple years. That’s what I’m looking at if your looking for solutions to the problem now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Columbus is desperate ........
for help at G. How about Nabby + a prospect for one of their Ds?
I don't think they have D to get rid of though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
If they did, they would not have paid a kazillion dollars for Wisniewski.
All we would get from them is a bottom pairing Dman- and we have many of those- so many.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Plus they stink
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
yeah thats also worth factoring in.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Thannks for reminding me............
But for money he might be pursuaded
not sure what you mean by money.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
He only gets his present Isle's salary........
but could be given a big raise and a contract extension to play for Columbus – a raise above market rate in exchange for playing for a lousy team, in which he has a no trade clause which he would wave for MONEY!!!!
Mike Milbury is that you?
This panic is unwarranted. Even the best teams in the league go through bad luck streaks. Boston lost 6 out of 7 at one point in March. The shots have to go in sooner or later. Panic selling doesn’t work in stocks and it doesn’t work in team management.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
by Anarcurt on Nov 9, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agree. They're only 4-6-2. It's not like they're out of it like Columbus. A nice hot 7-10 days and they're right where they want to be.
We have too much talent up front to struggle for much longer. Our goaltending is solid. I agree we might need to address the D through trade, but that’s been a problem since last year. Panicking is very unwarranted at this stage of the season.
by Metzfan22 on Nov 9, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dont know if he is on the block, but Dustin Buff from WPG would be a great addition. Isles D lacks a big crease clearer. A couple things, he was signed to his deal by ATL management. So, maybe WPG management isnt fond of that deal. He is also off to a slow start. Also, the BWI issue is there. But, when I look back at the moves that ATL did to acquire Buff and Ladd. Not much was given up. That was the type of move that Garth should have made. Cap pressed team looking to unload. Most likely WPG doesnt even wanna move him. But, after watching Lucic and Horton just plant themselves in front of the net with no resistance its clear the D is too soft/small. Just a thought.
I like the idea, but I don't think they'd move Buff. If they did, it would cost us a lot.
You might be talking about having to part with one of Okposo, Strome, or Nino as the centerpiece of a deal for him.
At this point It would be Okposo AND one of the good prospects.... as much as I like him, he isnt playing well enough to be a centerpiece for anyhting but another project player.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
These are like the posts mocked on Amazin Avenue.
Seriously dude.
A. It’s been 12 games.
B. Bailey & Nabakov are worth very little. Comeau slightly more (Nabakov is worth the least).
If we think players are dregs, so do others.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
by garik16 on Nov 9, 2011 9:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mets fans really have nothing to be pretentious about.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 10, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think we should make any trade, except to clear up the 3 goalie situation
While going into the season all the questions were about defense and goaltending, the Isles problem is scoring goals.
They are in the top half of the league in goals against, but 29th in goals for.
I think that these guys are going to start scoring, so let’s be little more patient.
Toronto, and Columbus
Are in a desperate need for a change.
Toronto has goaltending problems and just lost Reimer.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380038
Could we get Rick Nash?
Depending on who we send. The Isles have enough prospects and we really don’t want to fail for Nails.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380068
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
Hmm
But Id say absolutely no on Nash. And not because he isnt a great player, but because I cannot picture a scenario that would lead to it actually happening. if Rick Nash left Columbus, I would be confident that he would not be coming to the New York Islanders.
A- the Isles would have to give up SO MUCH I almost shudder to even think about it.
B- they would more likely trade him to a team that is in contention than trade him to a team like the Isles. The preception of the Isles is that they are not much different than Columbus at all.
C- their fans would frickin KILL them. I wouldnt blame them, either.
But as far as the Toronto thing goes, that idea seems kinda feasible to me. It would depend on how Nabokov and his family feel about Canada, I think.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 10, 2011 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
no doubt.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 11, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
Hope Snow knows where the phone is
Old story – you have to give up something [meaning you have to give up in something of value] to get something………our garbage will get us someone else’s garbage – unless you believe in the old adage about a :change in scenary !
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
