(T)Rick or Treat?
by Chris McNally on Nov 7, 2011 3:02 AM EST
in This, That & What-Not
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PrintEditor's Note: If you hadn't noticed, "Scoring Chance" Chris has joined the authoring staff at LHH, and has decided to touch the lightning rod of all Isles discussion. Please welcome him, and funnel your yea-DP/nay-DP/we'll-see-DP talk here.
Whether deserved or not, there is no denying that Rick DiPietro's place on the Islanders is a source of much discussion. In his quest to try and regain his prior All-Star form, DiPietro has split Islander Nation into two groups. No matter how you spin it, you're either Pro-Ricky or Anti-Ricky, and its really hard to argue with either side.
Even amidst a scoreless streak that encompassed the equivalent of 2 NHL games, a six-game winless streak, and a line renovation worthy of an Extreme Makeover: Home Edition episode, a lot of the focus was still on DiPietro, even though goaltending has been the least of the Islanders problems this year.
In three starts this season, DiPietro is 1-1-1 with a 2.67 GAA and a .904 Save %. But what do these stats mean? I'm going to attempt to make heads or tails of Rick's performance so far this season and whether all of the gripes being made are warranted.
DiPietro's record in three starts for the Islanders has been as even as you can get. One win. One loss. One unsuccessful trip to Overtime. In three starts he's been part of 3 points earned by the Islanders, the same amount gained by Evgeni Nabokov in four starts and only one less than Al Montoya has in four starts of his own.
Rick has also managed to keep the Islanders in every game he's played in, and that's all you can ask from your goalie. In his three starts, DiPietro has allowed 3, 2, and 3 goals, a respectable total in every game. Also, in DiPietro's shootout relief appearance, he allowed only one nifty goal by Evgeni Malkin, again giving the Isles a chance at victory.
His 2.67 GAA is better than Cam Ward, Roberto Luongo, Martin Brodeur, and Dwayne Roloson. His .904 Save % is better than all of theirs except Ward. There have definitely been bigger names in the league who have put up worse performances on the early season than DiPietro.
But while he may have better numbers than other goalies around the league, the naysayers would first point out that DiPietro's numbers aren't better than the other two Islanders goalies. While Montoya and Nabokov rank in the Top 21 in the league in both GAA and Save %, DiPietro ranks 38th and 42nd in each stat, respectively.
What seems to carry more weight is Rick's play in net. DiPietro seems shaky on most of the shots he sees. His rebound control has been poor, and he continues to wander outside the crease like a child who needs to see what's going on in the neighbor's yard, even though he's been told repeatedly to mind his own business.
There is also the theory that the team plays better in front of the other goalies. And while I do admit I was a subscriber to this theory, it's hard to validate it after Saturday night's victory over the Capitals.
As long as the Islanders insist on carrying three goalies, the debate on who should be in net will continue. But that doesn't mean Rick DiPietro's play this season deserves constant criticism. Until the Islanders production in front of each goalie starts showing some differences, it's time to give DiPietro a pass. At the end of the day, it's about the Islanders winning games, and they haven't shown they do it any better with someone other than DiPietro in net.
Rick is here to stay, at least for the remainder of this season, possibly A LOT longer. And as long as his results stay this way, Islanders fans definitely have more important things to worry about.
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Thanks for the post
I wouldn’t say that I’m conclusively pro- or anti-Rick myself, though. He has been making me nervous, however, making what could be easier saves into dramatic situations and setting out on occasional adventures. Maybe he could use a stint across the Sound, just to get him some time to settle back down without too much pressure. Or would that create ego cap problems? I never understand these things…
i get the debate... i dont get the hate (unintentional rhyme)
i’m all for hating… in fact there is someone i hate a lot… his name is admiral kiiiiiiirrrrrkkkk!!!!!!… but hating a dude who did nothing but love the team… accepted a contract offered to him that no one in their right mind would turn down… got hurt… fought to come back… and so far succeeded this year in his first real year back after 3 years of probably a personal hell… i mean… there’s no reason to hate… and many of you guys do hate no matter how much you deny it
in any other organization that player would be cheered… in islanders nation he’s ridiculed and fans hope he hurts himself again
it’s insane… and i know insane…
and i used to be a pretty good goalie myself in the old days before i became ruthless dictator…
by Khan Noonien Singh on Nov 7, 2011 5:01 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
At the risk of incurring someone's wrath
I know what you mean about other fans cheering on a player trying to come back, but other fans don’t have our history. This is a team that has gone through nearly two decades of ownership and front office nightmares, and DP is the quintessence of that. Hating DP is about more than hating DP-it’s about hating mistakes and compounding those mistakes with more of them.
I also don’t think any other organization gives a guy with 40 games over the past three seasons a chance at the NHL level to find out he can still play.
Tavares is Tavares.
I agree with your first paragraph whole-heartedly. I also don't fall in to the pro-Ricky or Anti-Ricky slots.
I’m more wait and see. He is still just 30. This is his last chance to prove his worth…so, i disagree that no one would give him a chance even with his history.
me either
But I dont agree with you that this is his last chance- if Rick had an injury that was in no way related to his knee (like his face last year) this same thing would happen next year.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget
it was his knee and his face last year.
But I really think any other team makes him earn an opportunity playing elsewhere. But he has the contract and he’s boys with the owner, so…
Tavares is Tavares.
OK, but he's running out of chances to a degree. Besides, that wasn't really my point. He clearly deserves this chance and so far he's played fairly well IMO.
I do not see the other two goalies as being head shoulders better at this point, but as perhaps top of the head better……and so, Cappy needs to walk a fine line. He can’t just play Rick to get him games if we have a better chance with another goaltender. At this point, the difference in play isn’t great enough for this to be a problem. Goaltending has NOT been our problem at all….but, winning has. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Cappy needs to walk a fine line between giving games to all 3 for now, but also winning now. Once one separates themselves out, he should tighten the rotation.
Well, this leaves something out
It’s true that Rick has always cared a lot about winning, battling back from injury, and so on. And it’s also true that you can’t blame him for accepting the contract.
But he also has a tremendously cocky attitude, and for the past few years, he hasn’t earned anything close to the right to be cocky. After he was last in the league in both GAA and Save % last season, he was asked about the possibility that he’d need to compete for the starting job next year. He got all pissy and was all like, “Compete? With who?”
He acts like a jerk sometimes, and if his attitude is that he’s entitled to the starting job, it’s hard to put the blame for Ricky’s ability to cut to the front of the line on management.
But he also has a tremendously cocky attitude
The guy has been unbelievably humble and quiet. For years.
After he was last in the league in both GAA and Save % last season, he was asked about the possibility that he’d need to compete for the starting job next year. He got all pissy and was all like, "Compete? With who?"
That is not what happened. They asked him about his competition and he asked the reporter which goalie he meant because the Isles had EIGHT GOALIES under contract in one season. He wasnt pissy. You can go watch the interview, Ive seen it.
Im so tired of this revisionism.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have watched the interview
He definitely came off as pissy to me.
You’re right, though, that he isn’t cocky in the same way that he was before his body started breaking down. Back then, you could count on him to respond poorly to any question that challenged him even a little bit. You’re right that it’s not quite like that anymore, but I’m still not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But what you can’t deny is that he’s made decisions on the ice that are selfish, or at least self-aggrandizing. He’ll try to “fungo” the puck out through traffic when there are much safer plays available. Several times this year, he’s gone behind the net to play the puck when there are opposing forwards close by. That’s what the defense is for, but Rick needs to be the center of attention. And then there’s the big one, his desire to fight numerous times last season until he finally got his wish with Johnson and had to pay the price for it.
by Sam Axe on Nov 7, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The guys is probably a Red Sox fan so you know he has to be a bit pissy.
Rick needs to be the center of attention
This is the original reason I wasn’t his biggest fan and still not. Even at the home opener, I thought it looked like he needed a little extra attention and went to salute the vets before taking his spot on the blue line. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is pro veteran (the mask), I’ve done a lot of that this year, but I always get that feeling he needs to stand out.
What I really care about his that he gets the Islanders some wins. The Islander-face incident was an attention grabbing moment, but in that instance he showed he does care and will pay the price. Maybe his problem is that he is too damn proud and needs a littel bit of humility. On the other hand, Roy was a cocky SOB, he just had the pedigree to back it up.
The last few times I've seen him try to do the fungo thing
one of his defenseman has gotten in his way…and I think they are doing it on purpose. Seen Amac, Hamonic and Streit all basically skate right into his path and stop in front of him.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Welcome Chris
Thanks for sinking your teeth in this highly emotional topic.
When it comes to DiPietro, emotions are high and expectations of failure often trouble our judgment.
I don’t like seeing DiPietro in the crease (even worse… wandering around it) and it has nothing to do with his actual play: I expect him to do something stupid whenever the puck is in his proximity.
From a goalie I expect a sensation of security and I don’t get that from DiPietro :-(
It’s not that I hate him, I hate the feeling he gives me when I see him play.
I feel the same way
For a franchise that’s had more than one player say “Thanks but no thanks. I’d rather play anywhere else but here,” Rick’s loyalty to the Islanders is unquestioned. Personally, I want to see him shake all the injuries and be a solid NHL goalie.
But his style of play drives me bananas. I do feel that his risk-taking affects how the team plays in front of him. I used to have the same reactions to Tommy Salo, who also had talent and was a likeable guy. But if the Islanders were up 2-1 with five minutes left in the third period, I would literally have preferred any other player be in goal BUT him.
For that, my preference is for Al to eventually be the starter. Of course, until the three-headed monster is put to bed, all we can do is sit back and hope whoever’s in the crease plays well.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Nov 7, 2011 10:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rick D Pietro
Rick has also managed to keep the Islanders in every game he’s played in, and that’s all you can ask from your goalie. In his three starts, DiPietro has allowed 3, 2, and 3 goals, a respectable total in every game. Also, in DiPietro’s shootout relief appearance, he allowed only one nifty goal by Evgeni Malkin, again giving the Isles a chance at victory.
Unless the Islanders can trade Rick, he would have to go thru waivers to get to Bridgeport. That’s if Garth would even want him there. While Nabby is ill, it’s either Rick or Al.
How many people would prefer that we pay off Rick and let him loose? Ok, because the league would make the Isles pay dearly for any deal they make, would you mind if the Islanders pass on the fees for the amount of time (approx 19 years) that the league would make the Isles pay each year along to the fans?? Me Neither. And some may say that’s the cost of being in management for a hockey team, but unless Rick absolutely flops on his face, the Islanders are not about to buy out anyone.
Bottom Line: Rick stays with the Islanders, either as back up or in the press box or as a started, til he blows up.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
I got no problem with DP.
The wandering can get annoying, but once he gets his timing and groove back, he’ll be fine. He’s a good, solid – not great – goalie. He’s been out the better part of 2-3 years, and I’m sure of all positions, goaltender is probably the hardest to get back into peak form. Along with the physical side of getting back, I’m sure he’s carrying a lot of emotional baggage too, every time he goes down, you can feel that expectation that he’s not getting back up.
With that said, I think Al should be #1. He’s been the sharpest. I don’t like the idea of him having a month off.
what the over/under on # of games it takes DP to get "his timing and groove back" ?
That for me is the unknown that I wrestle with. How many games must he play before he stops going down and worries about getting back up?
I voted for Al to start, but understand that they all got to keep fresh, and their trade value on the up and up. But it is all uncharted territory.
Does anyone know if any other NHL club rotated three goalies in a season for a prolonged time?
I don't know.
I figure there will just be a time when it happens. Timing and grove, I would think should happen soon enough, 10 games should be sufficient. The going down and getting back up, no idea. It will take years for people that don’t watch the team get past it. For fans and teammates, I dunno, a full season would be nice.
DP is going nowhere
Have to echo Martys’ sentiment. He’s been letting in a couple of soft goals (which judging by Vokoun’s play on Saturday really is a common thing even for those “elite”) but I don’t see him ever regaining the number 1 role. He’s going to be an expensive back-up. At this point I say sell Nabakov to the Blues for an exorbitant price and float Montoya and DP. If there’s an injury, we do have that logjam in Bridgeport too so it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
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Agreed
Based on last year, yes.
But heck, let Montoya play and maybe boost HIS trade value. All the talk about moving Nabby because he’s cheap, Montoya is pretty cheap as well. A team contending for a playoff spot and needs an inexpensive goalie because said team is near the Cap? We’ve got 2 for you right here to choose from!
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 7, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
you mean based on 1/3 of last year.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
1/3 true,
But played well enough keep us in many games. Doesn’t mean he should be the de-facto starter, but should be given many of the early games to increase the sample size. DP shuld have been given the other starts, with Nabby getting clean up starts. that is unless Cappy and Snow felt Nabby played head and shoulders above the other two both in pre-season and practice.
Back....
had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman.
If he wants to trade one of them, they have to get starts.
If he does want to try to move Nabokov, him getting 0 starts so far (thats how often theres been a “clean up” type situation so far) wouldnt help that. The only teams Nabokov would permit the Isles to send him to are not going to be the desperate teams, they are going to be winners who want to know what they are getting.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Feel like we got Nabokov as a insurance policy.
Snow didn’t know how, when, if, DP and Al would recover from injuries. I still think that one of them will get hurt or run into a slump before the season is out. Nabokov could be kept either on the roster or at the bridge ( I think?) until then. I’m sure he would not be happy with either way, but hard decisions like that are what GM’s get paid for. My opinion is is 3 is one too many for the others to get the reps they need. i also don’t see anyone that whom we could get in trade for them that would be a real inprovement over what we already have.
Back....
had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman.
Hate to vote 'yes to Cerberus'...
But we have a 3 decent-not-world-beating goaltenders to shuffle right now. Maybe the D is making them all look good, which is a plus in my book any day. If there was a Rinne backstopping us, we could make do with a more porous defense. But giving up an average of 2.54 goals per game (tied for 11th in NHL) and 29.5 shots per game (tied for 12th), the Isles can afford right now to play all 3.
Personally, I think Al is the main man, and should get more starts than he has lately (of course, I’m biased, as I have him in both fantasy leagues in which I participate). But DiP and Nabby have not let us down yet.
You know you're an Islanders fan when you hit refresh on LHH 12 times a day. In summer.
by FLIslesfan22 on Nov 7, 2011 8:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's where I am
(except for the Al on my fantasy team part).
It’s funny, I’m not in a pro- or anti-Ricky camp. I’m resigned to them having to figure out what to do (or what CAN be done) with him, and trying to minimize the damage of that process.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
There should be 4th option in the poll 'keep rotating'
Ricky’s is not going anywhere. His contract would definitely clear waivers, but there are already 3 goalies in Bridgeport, so that does not work.
Nabokov should probably play the most until they can move him. One problem is that Nabby (according to Cap Geek) has a non-movement clause and the team with the biggest need is Colombus. I don’t see why he would waive the clause to go there.
The one thing
I was hoping you might have compared the scoring chances DP has faced as compared to the other two goalies. I haven’t seen them posted for the last couple of games (there was talk of a google spreadsheet or something-did that happen?).
I’m curious about it because I feel as though DP has generally not been tested as much as the other two (particularly Montoya), and I was wondering if my anti-DP bias was coming to that conclusion, or if there was something to it.
Tavares is Tavares.
Its still coming
with the past few games (including tonight) so close together, I’m going to be lumping the three games into one post and then the season totals to date into a following post. I was waiting for the Islanders to have consecutive days off, which they have after tonight
And I agree with DiPietro not being really tested. I was on the phone with my dad the other night and I had mentioned that I don’t remember one instance where DiPietro made a miraculous save or where i said ‘Wow Ricky came up big for us there’. Even the penalty shot he faced hit the post. SO its possible that he just really hasn’t had to face any difficult shots yet. Which is a testament to our D.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 7, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yea
Keith has been postulating that it seems like they are collapsing more in the defensive zone when DP is playing. Something does seem different, but we’re all so biased at this point when it comes to him it’s hard to say.
Tavares is Tavares.
Observationally, I think Nabokov has been the most tested or has made the more sensational saves.
That may be a chicken or the eg thing, is he making specatulcar saves because he is not in position or is he robbing the other team.
Montoya so far looks like he has had the easiest time of it. He’s big and his style allows him to let pucks hit him. He plays a little bit back in the net, but that seems to work for Lundqvist.
DiPi has made some solid saves, but there still seems to be a bit of rustiness when he goes down. Not as quick as Nabokov to cover the rebounds and I think that is why he has been kicking the puck out farther.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All this talk about moving Nabokov
People need to keep something in mind: NTC.
Nabokov aint going anywhere he doesnt feel like going.
Out of the Isles three goalies, more Isles fans seem to think that Montoyas twenty-something games are proof-positive that he is a reliable starter, and that (somewhat surprisingly) is enough for them.
But out of the three goalies, the one they want to keep the most is also the one most likely to go.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
I have a feeling
if a team wants Nabby to be their starter, as long as where not talking about Columbus or Winnipeg, he’d be game to pack his bags and go. Just from his one quote in Newsday a few days ago
“I don’t know — I’m not the one putting my two cents in,” he said. “I just go on the ice, work hard and do my best. The only thing I can control is my play.”
Sounds like a frustrated guy trying to hide frustration to me. If I were any of the three I’d be kind of frustrated with the situation as well. Its hard battling one guy for playing time, let alone two
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 7, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Its gonna be on his terms.
The Isles will not get much for him, and then they will be left in their organization with two goalies coming off offseason surgery, two more who had surgery the season before, and Nilsson.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Nabby initially didn't want to come here
Then reality set in. My gut feeling is he’d be amenable to going almost anywhere if it meant more playing time. His age is not a good fit for our rebuild plans.
by 4PeatSake on Nov 7, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would completely agree with you
if it weren’t for his family. He went alone to Russia and, from what I have read, it almost cost him his marriage. Now wife and kids are with him on Long Island. Would they move a second time in the space of a couple of months? Keep in mind they aren’t the usual hockey family. They had a steady life in San José for more than 10 years.
well done Fracesca
the Long Island house is a rental, the San Jose house is owned, that Russia excursion was bad for the family, really bad., You must be a local (San Jose,California)
Once he gets his legs about him on the Island, rebuild hell! lets get a few W’s and make some noise NOW!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
No local, I live in Switzerland :)
A cousin of my mother lives there (he is the husband of former LPGA player Dana Dormann), but we haven’t been in contact for ages.
I check on the Sharks every now and then because of Thornton. I have fond memories of him playing (and winning) in Davos with Rick Nash during the lockout.
The lockout was bad for the NHL, but a real boost for Swiss hockey.
You may also recognize a young goaltender you have now grown accustomed to hate.
by Francesca on Nov 7, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ditto
Props to Francesca for the family angle. And please tell us, who will be the next Swiss star to join Streit and Nino on the Isle?
No idea...
My money was on Diaz, an offensive defensemen with a great breakout pass and nice shot, but the Habs already scooped him up this offseason.
His sliding save on Bergeron
His first NHL goal
Although
I linked this earlier, the chances that Montoya regresses are getting increasingly smaller.
Its not that it’s enough, it’s that he’s the only one on the roster with a chance to be special. Trading him would be a huge mistake, because he’s not likely to bring much back. His value to the Isles far outstrips his trade value.
Tavares is Tavares.
100% Agree
I get that Ricky isn’t going anywhere, and I really think he can be good in a backup role (just enough play to keep him sharp, not too much to overwhelm his body).
But as for the starter, or lets say, 1A goalie, I really want to see Montoya this year. The guy is younger, has shown fire to prove himself, and has shown us success. He always look calm and collected and his positioning and reflexes have been great. I think not playing him now is going to hurt him. He’s not getting his time to play and now has to deal with 2 heavily baggaged goalies. This is mistake. Trading him without really testing his potential is a mistake.
If DP is really going to stick this year and not go down to injury, I would love to get rid of Nabby, so the AM/DP combo can set for a year. But what are you going to do with the NTC?
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 7, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
This should be Montys time to shine
Its something how loyal and optimistic people are about this guy.
Barely 1/3 of a season in the NHL in his career- less of a season than Mason had when he won the Calder- and so many of you are absolutely convinced he is amazing and is being maliciously stopped.
There is no “should be” with Montoya, man. If Nabokov didnt refuse to play for us he would still be an AHL backup.
Does that mean I dont like him? Nope- I DO like him- I wish him all the best. But I cannot see like 1% of the story and convince myself that I know it all. Its amazing how many people can.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. Montoya is 26, a 1st round pick, and he's played well.
He’s worth giving more games to. Huge mistake to trade him now. With that said, you have to give Nabby some starts to keep his trade value up. I’d say we can keep doing this another 20-25 games so Nabby gets to ~12 starts…. or a big enough sample size to show his worth to another team. Then we need to move him….unless he stands on his head or one of the others goes down to injury.
Agree as long as Nabokov keeps up his play
Nabokov’s insurance and an asset, but if he were not playing well, no point losing to get a second round pick. Goaltenders are only worth so much on the open market and trade value should be lower on the list than seeing what Montoya can do and what to make of DP long term.
Could be
Maybe the thought process went:
1) Eval Al to give him another chance to show he’s for real
2) Eval RDP to see — oops, Rolston concussion
2a) Eval Nabokov to showcase as trade bait
3) Eval RDP to see if he’s healthy and Nabby can be traded.
I don’t know. All I know is managing three goalies in any scenario is hard. And there’s a lot of subtext here that makes it even harder to peg the right theory.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Either way though
if DP isn’t healthy, one of the trio at BPT gets called up…whatevs.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
The "first round pick" thing- how does that possibly matter?
Rick was picked higher than Montoya. So should they play him tonight?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
and Nabby was a ninth round pick who
has played in 2 of the last 3 Western Conference Finals, so your point is!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
Draft position means nothing is the whole point.
We hear about Al montoya’s potential since he was a first rounder (on the flip side it was a Ranger first rounder). I think Montoya will get a long serious look at some point this season, but now CApuano has to get them all involved.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Draft position means nothing is the whole point.
Exactly. If you give a shit when one of them was drafted then you have to give a shit when all of them were drafted- and it obviously doesnt tell you anything about their careers so why bring it up as if it is a factor?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
*shakes head*
Theres no changing some minds. He is already an established starter who is better than two all-stars, and it seems that nothing can change that perception. I do think that, if Nabokov or DiPietro were the one who let up 4 goals, it would be a HUGE DEAL in your minds- and if Nabokovs stats were slightly better than Montoyas then the people pointing to stats now would be saying that stats dont tell everything.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Youre making MY point.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
DP played up to his #1 status but injuries blew it...Monty never got a fair chance to show hes worth it...His 1st season he was in the Queen Henrietta's shadow so he got buried in the AHL where he slumped...
The Isles gave him a shot and he was doing great…He’s been showing that if given a fair shot he is worth the #1 status…He’s proving to us why he was picked in the 1st round only to be benched again…Even tho hes been stellar as an Islander goalie…
DP was #1 and he was given ample oppurtunity to live up to it...
Now its Montys turn….There is a difference between both who were #1 picks. One has had his shot the other deserves his shot…So to gripe that they are the same is wrong, IMHO…One is a #1 pick with promise and the other is a #1 pick with an unearned contract and gets to play for that reason alone….Fuckin sucks
by KO21 on Nov 7, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Ricky thing
From the beginning, I despised Milbury for drafting him and trading Luongo.
When he did come around, like many others I felt… Ok, so he’s pretty good.
When he was signed to that contract, the majority on the planet thought it was stupid and still do.
His contract and history of injuries makes him un-tradeable. Just like in the beginning we’re stuck with him.
Myself, personally… I have a show-me-what-you-got attitude. I would play Montoya.
If I was another team looking to trade for a goalie it would be a toss up between Montoya and Nabakov. I also would not give up that much in trying to acquire either one.
This is why we are rotating 3 goalies.
Wanted to vote for all of the above
Based on stats. Took Al instead. My “eyes” tell me (at least last year) that team plays looser with Al in net. With Rick I think they lay back a bit, trying to protect instead of flowing up ice naturly. It’s not that I hate Rick, but he makes me nervous with his grazing away from the crease. Nabby doesn’t have a big enough sample size for me to throw him into the mix.
Back....
had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman.
Depth & Options
Repeating what’s already said but thanks for post Chris! At some level every professional athlete accepts the reality that part of the package with being a “professional” means living with fan’s critcism. I feel for and like Rick and hope that he can get his career back on track (and I also respect and accept the critical opinions of many other fans regarding him). Will he ever regain and possibly surpass the level of play he exhibited just a few years ago (before the “contract which shall not be named”)??
Wish I could be sure but looking at the careers of Tim Thomas and even Roloson reminds me of the old time hockey adage that goalies in particular don’t come into their own until they reach their 30’s. In meantime Isles have lots of depth (if you want to look at it that way) at the NHL level and can afford to let young prospects like Kevin Poulin develope on the farm instead of becoming the next Jamie McLennan (remember him??). I’ll admit it’s unusual to have 3 goalies in rotation but then again every year after the playoffs there is some GM/Coach talking about how their #1 goalie played too many games in the regular season (see Brodeur, etc). Let’s see how this works out. Back in the “Dynasty” era Billy Smith played an average of 50 games, usually rotating every other game with Resch and later Kelly Hrudey (and that didn’t seem to have an overly negative impact on his ability). Let’s “think outside the box” for a minute and appreciate the options the team has with the trio rotating for now and the options the Isles will have going forward especially when Trade deadline approaches if not sooner.
I'm not so much Anti-DP
As I am Pro-Montoya… it just baffles me that this guy does not see most of the action in net, I’d even argue more for Nabby to get more starts over DP as well..
If it’s b/c of the amount of money that DP is making, I won’t agree with that, and I understand the NHL is a business, but it’s that’s happening, I want the Islanders/Cappy/Garth to come out and tell me that’s why DP continues to get starts.
You can’t argue with the stats… .930 Save %… .930, it’s inconceivable that someone with that save % is getting picked over consistently by someone with a .906 save %.. small sample size I know but .930 is still .930….
I understand the ‘keeps the team in the game point’ but I want to talk a bit about the goals that are let in, as great as ‘keeping teams in games,’ not letting up bad goals keeps teams in games too…
I’ll speak to the Caps game b/c I drove up live for it so it’s the only game I’ve seen live and not on TV this year. The first goal… can’t do anything about the deflection and that’s tough luck but I feel like people are ignoring the juicy “pop the puck into the air right in the slot” rebound that DP gave up to lead to Ward’s shot, an NHL goalie just has to be better than that.
In the ‘has to be better than that’ category, the 2nd goal… no obvious screen.. a shot basically taken dead on from the slot… simply that shot needs to be saved if you want to be an NHL goalie. Even the 3rd goal, again no screen.. that’s a goal that just is saved by some of the ‘top’ goalies. If we are going to say that DP isn’t a top goalie, then that’s fine but before he gets more starts I want Montoya or even Nabby to prove that they also are not top goalies.
Most of the goals that Montoya lets up, I feel like I’m usually saying “ah he couldn’t do anything with that,” whereas with DP, I feel like he probably could’ve made the saves… that all coupled with the fact that we know he’s going to get burned eventually on one of those come out of the nets play.. I don’t think DP has played particularly bad, he just hasn’t been anywhere near the level that Montoya was starting out…
I didn’t agree with chanting Al Montoya’s names from the stands while DP’s in net at the Coliseum. I don’t think a home team should ever do that to their own guys… but I do agree that Montoya should have been in the net.
All I’m asking for is more Montoya starts until proven he deserves otherwise.
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 10:09 AM EST reply actions
You can’t argue with the stats… .930 Save %… .930, it’s inconceivable that someone with that save % is getting picked over consistently by someone with a .906 save %.. small sample size I know but .930 is still .930….
You cant argue with stats… neither of the other two have more starts than Montoya so where is this picked over stuff coming from?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Nabakov starts tonight
5th start.. picked over HA (nah I kid, fair point)… I just feel like after the Tampa loss.. we never went back to him and it just puzzles me a lot, I know my comment came off very anti-DP but that wasn’t the intention, I just wrote more on the recent games he gave up than intended… like the subject headline says, I’m just Pro-Montoya more than anything and maybe the coaching staff is trying to figure out what they have before they truly go forward… but I’d like some sort of indication about why Montoya has not been starting
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Im sure theres nothing to it other than the fact that there are two other starting goalies who have started the last 8 games.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Well, hard to complain about the Ovechkin goal, which was shot between our D-man's legs. Ovechkin is gifted, been doing that to goalies for years......can't say Al or Nabby doesn't give that same goal up IMO>
Also, I wouldn’t say the others have been “head and shoulders better”…..perhaps top of the head better I’d agree with.
I agree.. but...
I just feel like the DP defenders always say things like “he gives us the chance to win games.” “he doesn’t lose games for us” etc etc.. I just think Montoya can STEAL games, so I want to see him play more, at this point in time.. over the past few years and even this year.. when DP has played well, I do not get the feelings that he can STEAL games for us… I think Montoya can and I think Montoya DID during the stretch last year
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.. but… I just feel like the DP defenders always say things like "he gives us the chance to win games." "he doesn’t lose games for us" etc etc..
Those statements are true for all three of the goalies so far this season.
I just think Montoya can STEAL games, so I want to see him play more, at this point in time..
You think he can, and thats nice, but the guy has a 20-something game Islanders CAREER and was an AHL backup before he was starting for our very desperate team last year. He is also coming off of an offseason where he had to have surgery.
I find it absolutely shocking that so many Isles fans have THIS much faith in an AHL backup whose career win totals are in the teens. Im not saying he is a POOR goalie, Im saying I see no possible way that people can justify all these projections about him!
over the past few years and even this year.. when DP has played well, I do not get the feelings that he can STEAL games for us… I think Montoya can and I think Montoya DID during the stretch last year
Again with the projections. With these three goalies, its just gonna come down to what they show. And Montoya has not been above the other two in any reasonable way.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm going off the evidence I have
and like I’ve said somewhere else, I don’t get why people don’t want to see Montoya prove all the Pro-Montoya people wrong..
bottom line is that he has looked the best, I’m sorry if you disagree but that’s one statement that I truly stand behind…
I just think sometimes Pro-DP people get so caught up in defending him because they get upset at how negative people are towards him… (which I get, people are downright cruel to DP… a player should never be boo-ed at home and he should never have to hear chants for the backup goalie on his home ice) …. they defend him in non-realistic manners and they don’t look at the goals he lets up, and even though Montoya does everything that’s been asked of him and then some, his sample size is too small and DP still should be starting b/c he’s been in the league longer? Maybe Montoya isn’t the goalie that we all think he is.. but I’m just asking for the chance to be proven wrong.
I just think it really should be as simple as.. who has played the best so far.. okay give him the start. When that goalie has a rough game.. you go to the next goalie.. rinse and repeat.
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I just think it really should be as simple as.. who has played the best so far.. okay give him the start. When that goalie has a rough game.. you go to the next goalie.. rinse and repeat.
When three kids get a 92%, a 93% and a 91% on a test, would you feel comfortable making sweek=ping conclusions about which one of the three is smarter than the other two? They are all doing fine. Im up for playing whoever is doing best, too- but none of them has so far stood out over the other two… unless you bvelieve that the kid who gets a 93% on the test MUST be the one who is the smartest, studied the most, etc.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Statistically, DP has had the most offensive/goals-per-game support, Nabokov 2nd, and Monty 3rd.
Statistically also, DP has faced the least amount of shots/gm, Monty 2nd, Nabokov 3rd. Just saying.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
by OzzyFan on Nov 7, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you misunderstood what I meant
in that situation, the 93% kid would be the smartest.. until he bombed another test with a 60% or something..
when that happens, you go to the guy that got a 92%.. until he bombs.. and then on to Mr. 91%… and so on…
I just don’t think it’s a secret or being bias to think that DP has let in bad goals… Montoya has not… I also don’t think it’s a secret that Montoya played excellent last year… what does he have to do to earn his starts?
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Too bad they can't all take the test at the same time.
You have a kid getting 93% on the test which means the other two can get 100% and you’ve been sitting them. So you allow the next kid to take the test, he gets a 93% as well. Let’s see what the last kid can do. He gets a 90%, so now which of the two 93% gets the start?
I guess since you can’t give them all the exact same test or the other goaltenders could cheat off of the previous kid, you give the kid that got the 93% on the harder test the next start. Nabokov is back in which seems about right if it is fair and open competition. I hope Montoya then gets the next crack at it.
when that happens, you go to the guy that got a 92%.. until he bombs.. and then on to Mr. 91%… and so on…
Actually no you dont. All three of them would be leveled exactly the same- because the margin of error is too small and you cannot make sweeping decisions based on such a small amount of information. Its not enough data. (FWIW I was a teacher for over 5 years and if I ranked kids differently based on info like that Id have been written up for it.)
I just don’t think it’s a secret or being bias to think that DP has let in bad goals… Montoya has not…
Yes it is a bias- because basing a judgment on what- ONE goal? ONE save? is simply not reasonable.
Montoya is the only goalie who has let in 4 or more goals all season so far. Does that mean he is doing poorly? Of course not. Not enough info, man- not enough info.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Where is the info that says Montoya should not start a game for 2+ weeks?
You’re ignoring last year which is probably the most frustrating part of this. Are we not going to give Montoya credit and respect for what he was able to do last year? Are we going to ignore how pedestrian DP has looked last year and I’ll even argue for parts of this year (you don’t agree with those points, which is fine, I can see both sides to that argument)
Last year:
GP W L O GAA Save %
DP: 26 8 14 4 3.44 .886
Montoya: 21 9 5 5 2.39 .921
Small sample size.. team was playing better overall when Montoya was getting the majority of starts… those excuses only make sense to a point
you’re talking about a save percentage almost 40 pts higher… less games played and more wins, yes I know Isles were playing better during Montoya, etc. etc.
I will say one thing, I tried to look up the goals scored per game during their starts last year… Montoya does get 3.38 (last year) while DP only gets 2.78… You could either say the team plays better/more confident with Montoya in net or you could say that that’s why Montoya gets more wins when he plays.. but then the Save % is still there, I refuse to use GAA as a true stat in this circumstance but I think the save percentage disparity shouldn’t be avoided.
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Last year is not this year.
But you will keep pointing to last year anyway because you think it makes your point. (shrug)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
If you want to stick to this year
then you’re still arguing for Montoya. He’s also been the best this year.
Tavares is Tavares.
Nope
Im arguing that there isnt enough info yet to make any sweeping declarations.
Are you telling me that I havent made that clear? I feel like Ive explained that so many times.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Right
so last year doesn’t count. This year doesn’t count. They should just pick a name from a hat before each game.
Tavares is Tavares.
Nobody is stopping you from deluding yourself into believing that you have a large enough sample saize to make sweeping generalizations. Ive completely given up on expecting any kind of objectivity here- now I would just appreciate it if people got my opinion right instead of coming up with gems like throwing names into a hat every night and attributing them to me.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ricky's Career Stats
Over parts of 10 seasons, Ricky is 128-132-27. He’s faced 8,738 shots and has a save percentage of .903.
This season? In 3 starts, Ricky – completely healthy, we are told – has a .904 save percentage, exactly where you would expect him to be based on his career numbers. The .904 is 31st overall as of this evening. Decidedly mediocre to below average.
It is pretty hard to believe that Ricky will ever improve to the point where he is capable of posting elite, or even above average numbers. And yet if you say this, you are accused of “Ricky hate.”
It is pretty hard to believe that Ricky will ever improve to the point where he is capable of posting elite, or even above average numbers. And yet if you say this, you are accused of "Ricky hate."
Where are you imagining that is this happening?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
In fairness to that analogy
Your average spread in kids’ test scores range from 100% to say 75%, whereas the spreads in save age is realistically like 0.930 to 0.890. Three kids getting 91, 92%, 93% is basically and equal achievement, where the differences in the save %ages is more dramatic…..don’t want to come off as nit-picky, we all realize the limited action each G has seen.
we all realize the limited action each G has seen.
I know I do, apparently you do, but no- I would not say that we “all” realize that. There are many people here who think that they have seen enough this season to make sweeping judgments about all three goalies, which just seems so ridiculous.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Another nice post Chris
The biggest argument for not having Rick start another home game is so the rest of the team doesn’t have to hear boos when he is announced.
There is a Ricky Risk Factor as well…
The booing gets worse if he gives up a goal on one of the first three shots. It could happen to any of the three… but when it happens to Rick the, “HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SHIT” starts to creep into everybody’s thoguht process. There is also the collective gasp every time he slips into the butterfly… when will he get up, will he get up… GET UP!!!!
I’ll give him credit for working his way back to some degree of health… but now EARN YOUR STARTS. It’s like a championship fight. The washed up former champ doesn’t win the belt because he went the distance with the current champ… no … he has to knock him out.. or at least win by overwhelming decision… LOOK AT THE POLL… in a three horse race Ricky is fourth.
Maybe he should be the designated back up… and he can earn his keep by not actually starting games, but by giving the guy with the night off the night off.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
No... Home fans are done with him..
let him win them back on the road, before you force him down their throats.
And don’t make it worse by making somebody that they fell in love with last year sit in the press box while he continues to do the same shit he has done for 10 years.
Can you imagine what happens if the outlet pass to Tavares for the ENG is whiffed, and WAS ties the game in the last minute. There is wi-fi in the coliseum… Jeff Galulli would have gotten 10K wiki hits in less than three minutes.
another popular one would have been “pipe wrench” “home depot”
But the pass connects and an incredibly stupid risk is rewarded… and that could be the title of his autobiography STUPID RISK REWARDED foreward by Charles Wang.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You didn't watch the game and could barely give him a plus, based on an ESPN like clip of his pass to JT.
I watched the entire play and could imagine the Caps gaining possession in the zone, tieing the game up and then losing in OT like the Ducks did. I can imagine a lot of things, but DP didn’t whiff, he made an outlet pass that sealed the game.Did you see him choose not to make the play a few seconds earlier on a dump in and the Islanders were forced to make a clear that set the CAps right back inot the zone?
Can you imagine if the ref called the Isles offside and Nystrom doesn’t score in OT? The Flyers come back and win in OT then game seven and the Islanders are dismantled. You are blaming him for something that DIDN"T happen.
Say he went down too early on the PP goal and left the top shelf vulnerable, say that he should have had his pads tighter on Ovechkins 4-on-4 gaol, but at least leave it to actual plays and not imaginary errors. The guy does not look like he can get over his pads very quickly to cover rebounds like Naby does, that’s a criticism. He could have flubbed it is make believe and wishful thinking.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm really not sure...
why people want to ignore 10 years of FACTS. At least my assumption was an educated guess… and I admit it to eveidence as such.
I offered a “what if”, based on him BEING BOOED BY HIS OWN FANS. He was booed on OPENING NIGHT because there are a group of fans that are just tired of seeing him around. I don’t belong to that group, but as we all know, if he was a free agent at any time of the last three years his ass would be in a TV booth or in the studio…
But no… we throw good money after bad, but want to be considered a contender.. and offer counter “what if’s” like “what if he gets back to his all-star level”
Okay… I’ll give you that he was once an “all-star”… but I will turn my head and laugh a little. But HE IS NOT GETTING BACK TO THAT LEVEL… and while he is not even there he is going to do all the shit we hated about him before.
What if he outplays the other two options? Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it. He hasn’t even (statistically) played as good as Montoya (who the fans really want to see)… but is getting a fair shot at the starting role. Fair enough… but if he doesn’t WIN IT, then let him sit… or send him to the AHL. .900 .930 .930.. which one of these is not like the other… which one of these should be sittin at home…
I’m an ISLANDER FAN… If Ricky was THE ANSWER I’d be as happy as a ranger fan at a justin beiber concert… but he’s NOT. He’s just the FISH STICKS your mother is forcing you to eat because she bought 15 years worth the last time they were on sale at COSTCO.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
He’s just the FISH STICKS your mother is forcing you to eat because she bought 15 years worth the last time they were on sale at COSTCO.
Forget Kafka, this is the greatest metaphor in the history of the written word.
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Nov 7, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This. So's the Ranger part.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
So it is written...
Here’s the solution to TMC’s issues with “DP” and “Rickety”.. from now on I will be calling him “FishStickRick” ©.
Anybody with designs on stealing this for T-shirts I want 15% off the top for intellectual property rights. I so hereby document my ownership.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This was
much easier since he grew the beard.
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Nov 7, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
That is AWESOME!!!!
I need to play with GIMP a little more. the only thing I’d change is the boat should be riding on a scene from Deadliest Catch…. with Big Al and Nabby falling off the side.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Oh...
and I get 15% of all Rec’s! Even the one that I added… so it should only cost me .85 recs.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Panderig to the crowd for Recs.
Think its easy getting recs trying to side with DP?
My heart is with you...
But you will get rec’d by TMC… which again clouds my recurring daydream from a previous stream.
JPinVA… slowly morphing into the Jesse Jackson or Nipsy Russel of LHH.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Don't forget to send her the Pens vs Isles DVD
I did my part by delivering it to you.
I LOVE DP!!!!
Okay… that was to get her attention.
TMC,
I have sent you at least one email on the subject. I have the video from 1919. I will send it to you, or give it to you over the holiday. I just need an address or a gamenight meeting location…. but also (see below)
1919: I tried to watch it last week, and I think it was formatted to be used by the recording DVD player. I will email you later. I really appreciate the effort… as a matter of fact… here… take my recs.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Did you try TMC DVD?
Dom and Russel did not report any problems.
I will try TMC tonight...
TMC, see above for context… before I get flagged!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
But you will get rec’d by TMC…
How could I resist it? HOW I ASK YOU?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
You just throw...
your recs around like they were used crayons at a TGIF!
REC WHORE!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Management at LHH
Looks the other way regarding the black market trade of recs. A de-prioritization, if you will.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Fantastic! :D
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Seems more of a trademark to me, try this
FishStickRick™,
and once its registered witht he US Patent and Trademark Office,
FishStickRick®
Look we all agree the contract was and is a bad idea
What I can’t fathom is why I would boo my own player when he isn’t even playing? I know you aren’t in that bunch, but it is visceral hatred at this point. It really is starting to remind me of the “Potvin Sucks” chant, people do it becasue they feel a need to show some form of displeasure. Billy Smith in goal for this team over the past ten years would put them in no different position than where they are now.
He hasn’t cost us any games, has been “outplayed” marginally at best and is just part of the rotation. If Capunao had DiPi playing all 12 games to start the season and they had the same record, I’d be scratching my head too. You’re always good with a funny analogy, but the whole fishstick thing doesn’t add up. The last three season’s were the time to cut him lose, now that he may be improving isn’t the time to cut bait.
I’m not even looking for him to be an All-Star, I’m looking for what people have said all along, don’t annoint Ricky the number 1, have him compete. To Capunao’s credit it looks like a fair an open competition that hasn’t been decided in 10 games. Go back and call up Ricky’s past 10 yeasr of injury, then dial in Al Monotya as a career minor leaguer first round bust and Nabokova as a playoff choker, left for dead in the KHL. What matters is what they do now. The .900, .930s are so statistically marginal with this sample size, that we’re grapsing at straws to make this seem like a final decision should be made.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with every point...
where we disagree(?) is your biggest omission. For the past three years the team has come into camp with a question mark. Every year, when it is about to get answered, the question itself, not the partial answer, is extended.
So every year there is a fresh slate, and we start the process all over again. take DP out of the equation for a second… and let’s just call him goalie X.
When Osgood was here… chris was superior.
When goalie x was replaced due to injury yoda got them into the playoffs… and goalie x (through no fault of his own) got them swiftly out.
When Rollie was here he was the number one, but every time goalie x was around it was like it was his job to lose.
Now montoya showed up on a white horse last year and helped them get back to respectability… and he gets no “time served” credits. Because goalie x has to get a “fair shot”.
Well, Montoya is a young goalie that was also one with high upside that got lost in the shuffle… but there’s nothing to say that he would be as bad as goalie x has been for the past 3 years (mediocre at best). He did steal games last year.
I understand being “fair”… but if they lose Montoya to free agency because they think they have goalie x, and young depth behind him… SHAME ON THEM.
I won’t boo an Islander… but if I did… that’s why!.. and it wouldn’t be directed at DiPietro, he’s fairly blameless in this mess… all he does is work hard and make some stupid decisions. It’s his boss… that made the stupidest decision, and is force feeding us the breaded fish substitute… because of LOYALTY.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This post above is 100% true
ROLI was leading this team and they were winning. But then goalie X comes around and thern Roli has to split his starts so he loses his rhythm. The team goes into a tale spin….
Fair Enough
Osgood was waived by the Wings and the Islander fans didn’t want him since he was already a has-been. Then went on to win another Cup. That was so long ago Ricky wasn’t even on this contract.
Dubie was never going to be the answer.
Danis and MacDonal should make you appreciate DiPi.
Roloson was too old and the Islander fans didn’t want a 40 something either. Remembeb all of the mocking the backup goaltender took for that one? During the 21 game slide, who had the most starts? Wasn’t all sunshine and lollipops for Dwayne either.
.
So although DiPi played no part in fan speculation, he gets the blame. This is all contract related. He was injured, yes it sucked that he was injured and the injury was the reason for so much uncertainty. Penguins were questioned for having 3 centers and no wings and yet with Crosby injured they have uncertainty at center.
This is not an argument on whether Montoya should get a fair shot. He has been given the best shot of his career by the Islanders and now he had to sit while two veterans got a chance to play. The schedule sucked for playing time. Where is the rant against Nabokov for not helping the Islanders when needed and now stealing Montoya’s shot?
My biggest praise for Capuano is that he doesn’t let “love” decide who gets the start. Fans are fickle, they hated Nabokov after he rejected the Islanders last season and many people would have dumped him just so he would not be a “cancer”. Now it is revisionist history time. The time to dump DP was the last five years when there was no chance he was ever going to recover. So now that you have eaten the fishsticks you want to give up on dessert.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
See, tHIS post makes sense.
Spot on, 19. :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
you got dessert in your box...
damn… all i have is bread crumbs.
Again.. I see your point. But I didn’t say any of those alternatives were, THE ANSWSER. My point may have been a little blurry. FSR has been around for over 10 years. he has had one above average year. YES, this is mostly a contract issue… but it’s more of a privilege issue. If there was no FSR this franchise would have been better off from the start.
What we need is Clarence to come down and show all of us what those ten years would have been like…. dealing with a Luongo… then Gaborik… Butch Goring might have gotten another year to “prove himself”… maybe they don’t need to make the yashin deal… and they get four or five more years out of Chara…
maybe on my deathbed I will get a little extra morphine and relive those years in the few seconds I have left…
or maybe this…
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I Disagree With This 100% as It Relates to Chris Osgood
I’m sorry, but I do not recall Islander fans not wanting Chris Osgood when the Red Wings waived him because he was viewed as a “has-been.”
In fact, as I recall, quite the opposite was true. Almost eveyone thought Milbury should pick him up, and fans were very happy to have him.
I agree JPinVa...DP has been the 3rd best goalie so where does that leave him???
It bothers me hear DP get booed and to see Monty sitting when hes done more than enough to earn a starting position. ..He belongs in the press box and Nabby should be backing up based on performance.
There, I fixed it fo you.
You’re either Anti-Ricky or Anti-Ricky.
The Rick Dipietro Story... on Lifetime!
Woman meets man while her husband is in jail for spousal abuse. Her new “friend” hasn’t had a luck with women. He’s a tall handsome man, but he has a stutter… and his quiet demeanor makes him a bit of a recluse. On the occaision that he has been set up by his ever-meddling sister he has been uninterested and usually stammers his way through a date or two before every relationship fails.
They meet when she answers a handyman ad. She has a dishwasher that continues to leak and has been through five other repairmen… nobody can fix if…. and HER HUSBAND IS IN JAIL.
Into her life walks Mal Ontoya, “he he he hello mis..mis. miss peedi…peedeatro” (okay you get the picture, right?). He fixes the dishwasher while she stares at his butt… she notices cat shit under his boots, they share a mutual love for felines… he stops stuttering and by the second act he’s amking passionate love to her three times a day and sending her flowers hourly…
Then her husband, Dick, is released 18 months early because he saved the warden from a fire started when an absent minded guard (he’s a man, of course he’s absent minded) dropped a stinky cigar into a trash basket filled with old copies of THN.
AND HERE WE ARE… the commercials for Bounty, Summer’s Eve and the new pill that stops you from gaining weight after eatign four pounds of Little Debbies are over…
Dick is back in the house… Mal is sad and all alone… and Mrs Peedeatro has to make a life decision…
Let the debate begin!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
You left out
The Russian mail-ordered groom, shipped to “serve” said woman against his will -
by Dorfer on Nov 7, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hoo boy
I first read that as “Russian mail-ordered GROIN” and said to myself, no wonder Ricky’s always hurt. Cheap Soviet-era groins never work right.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
In Soviet Russia
groin pulls you.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
"No matter how you spin it, you're either Pro-Ricky or Anti-Ricky, ..."
I’m not. I don’t think he’s been healthy enough and gotten a steady enough stretch of work to evaluate. The jury is still out for me.
by dose on Nov 7, 2011 11:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
DP
unfortunately he will always be associated with the Milbury era. It bums me out when he is the announced starter. I think the team has little confidence in Rick and in his first two starts giving up on goal on the first shot deflated the entire team. I am very enthused about Montoya prospects. He has earned the starting role.
I think the team has little confidence in Rick and in his first two starts giving up on goal on the first shot deflated the entire team.
I could definitely see thinking that might happen… but thinking it DID happen? THAT makes no sense. Did you WATCH the team against the Caps?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
it did happen, i was there and the scoreboard said sharks-1 shots-1
Hi. My first post here and on any internet social media, board, book, space, tweet or whatever other interweb place there is. No, Homer was not the only idiot who tried to order a “TAB” when he sat in front of the keyboard. None the less, I signed up here after the frustrating loss to the jets the others night. Good thing for me, there was some kind of cooling off period after signing up that wouldn’t let me post. Now for my rant.
I am a season ticket holder in the first row of the 300s right on the away team goal line. There is no comparison to the burning I felt in my stomach when DP let in the first shot on net in his first start after that shootout nonsense. He did look good there considering Malkin has the wingspan of an eagle but that just gave me false hope for his first real start. I will tell you, it sucked all life out of the crowd and the team alike. Same thing happened against the jets. The team looked like they were simultaneously punched in the gut. And THAT was when and why people started the montoya chants. 1 shot, 1 goal. Cmon now. Also, there have been 3 instanctes that stick out in my mind where the d men (Streit, Amac, and hammer to be exact) have yelled " what the hell are you doing" at DP when he is “playing the puck”. What he is really doing is preventing them from doin there jobs and maybe start a quick Breakout. I swear he does as a middle finger to the people who tell him to play his position in the crease where he belongs. He is not only making himself look like a fool by trying to play wing in goalie pads but he is also making his teammates look bad by getting in their way.
There. I hope that was okay for a first timer
by Strong Island Thuggery on Nov 7, 2011 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Know what u mean
Welcome, Strong. Fine for first time. One of perks of this site in addition to being able to post about “our isles” is that I’ve come to realize it also probably saves us a fortune on therapy!! Agree with you (even tho I’ve mentioned elsewhere here today about liking Rick) that there are moments in games where he can just make u soooo crazy!!
Nope. It DIDNT happen, thats whe whole point.
When that goal on the first shot went in (and it was not all the goalies fault) it DIDNT deflate the entire team. They scored again. But instead of being deflated, the exact opposite happened.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
PAP also said how much it meant to win for Rick. So if you want to go by what PAP said, why only pick part of it? It doesnt add up to make-pretend that the team was frustrated and down and giving up when they werent- they did the exact opposite.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
Just remember- what gets repeated more is almost always something that NEwsday hopes can be construed as nagative or dramatic. They love it. Going to primary sources instead of reading selected quotes always give a clearer vision.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome to the innerwebs!
Thanks for joining!
And thanks for the preface. One reason for the wait period is to avoid trolls; but another is so that a person’s first post upon joining is not an id-fueled rant — as much for them as for the regulars. (Because even though an intention may be pure, it can come off as a lecture to people who have been discussing the topic up and down for weeks, etc. and then people jump that person, then they feel unwelcome, etc. etc.)
Anyway, I’m not much of a DP fan. And I identify with your frustration in each of those instances. My biggest fear is he proves healthy enough to be an average backup goalie pulling $4.5 M who gets his defensemen creamed because of his insistence on playing the puck when it’s not necessary. I would like the luxury of evaluating him based solely on his puckstopping skills; that would be nice.
As for rants, what I’ve tried to do lately — and this post by Chris helps — is discourage people from turning every post into an OMG I HATE DP thread. Because if history is a guide, there will be plenty of days when DP really is the story. But on the other days/posts where he’s not an issue, it’s nice to not ignite “DP Hate vs. You’re Unfair, Episode 674.”
(That last part doesn’t really relate to your debut comment, but if you’ve been watching the past few days I thought I’d explain my thinking from a site management point of view.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Thanks for the friendly welcome. Yea, I have been a silent fan of this site since last season. I figured it was a good time to try to vent or something. This really is the best place for isles fans to get the scoop. You guys do an awesome job here. By the way, I don’t hate DP, I feel bad for the Guy but he just seems like he puts a damper on things. People are tired of his chapter and are looking for their next Savior.
by Strong Island Thuggery on Nov 7, 2011 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did you actually hear his team mates yell "wtf are you doing"???
or are u speculating???
OMG!!
That’s crazy. Not far removed from being a rookie and hes already yelling at DP for being an idiot….Cant blame any of the guys for being sick of him and his brain fartery…
Notice also...
that AMAC had the A on his chest for that game. This year, not so much. Instead they gave the A’s to two retreads, Kyle Okposo, who probably addresses FSR as “Sir” and John Tavares… maybe the next captain.
Again, I BLAME THE PARENTS. That was obviously punishment for “picking on his mentally challenged brother”
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Welcome...
I hope you post more here. It sounds like you pay attention. It’s just too bad you didn’t decide to call yourself Strong Hard Island Thuggery… cause then you’d be da SHIT!
I get the Al Montoya chants… what I really didn’t like was listening to him get booed at the opener.
…and YES, I agree about him flipping everybody the bird… but just like a child who disrespects their elders. I blame the parents.
Even though he’s only marginally worse than his competition, I’d have him riding a bus up and down I95 until he learns how to stay in the crease… and until another opportunity comes up. Which might not be that far away.
But what we get is, “he’s worked so hard to become a good student, I’m sorry he kicked you in the junk Mr Peterson… boys will be boys”
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I am surprised.....
I am very surprised that so many people are behind Al Montoya to be the starter. Montoya has the smallest sample size of all 3, having played a total of 30 games in his career (25 with NYI and 5 with PHX). I am not taking anything away from him, but, it’s not exactly like he has his name etched on a Vezina trophy or even played in 1 single playoff game.
Nabokov has over 500 games played plus 80 playoff games. This guy has been there and is a proven goalie in this league. He has a career GAA of 2.39 and 2.29 in the playoffs. He has more shutouts than Montoya has appearances for crying out loud. Sure, he played for the Sharks and was knocked for not winning a Cup, but, would the Sharks have been there without him?
DiPi has over 300 games played and a higher GAA (2.84) but has been injury riddled his whole career. Also, he will never live up to the expectations b/c of the success Luongo has had since being traded from the NYI. The only chance he has is to win a Cup before Luongo.
I give the nod to Nabokov and let it ride. We have all clamored for veteran presence with this young team and we have it with him in net. Break DP in slowly throughout the season. Worst case scenario, Nabokov plays well and we trade him at the deadline. Best case, he takes us in to the playoffs. DP plays as a backup this year, maybe gets 20 starts, and is ready for full time next year…. JMO
A more than reasonable opinion but here's the Montoya counterpoint:
Montoya is a wild card. He probably isn’t better than Nabakov but he could be, and he’s not super old, and the Isles have one young goalie prospect coming up. So they’ll have to figure out what to do with him soon, espeically with Ricky taking a roster spot. So why not give him a shot for a while to build up a sample size?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
see Redskins and Beck, he's no Grossman, but that's not praise either
not to sya Montoya will be a Beck like bust, but sample size is still small so let’s not get giddy. We once thought we had a number 1 goaltender sewn up for the next 15 years.
Beck has plenty of sample size.
Not comparible.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
The Redskins felt Beck's lack of failure was an indication he had to be better than Grossman
Turns out they both suck and the suck in had may be the better of the two sucks. Again, not to say Montoya will suck and has shown promise, but let’s hedge our bets here. Don’t be so quick to trade away Nabokov.
I agree for the most part.....
Numbers aside, Montoya has not been all that impressive to me. He’s made a couple nice saves here and there, but has never needed to do anything too dramatic. He was tested a lot in the Tampa Bay game and got lit up everytime. I do not blame him on any of the goals. 4 shots wide open from the middle of the slot are hardly a goaltenders fault, but imagine if that was Rick in net. Im sure fans would be singing a diff tune.
I understand how people could be hooked on the success the team has had as a whole with Montoya in net, but the overwhemingly majority of people who prefer to have a goalie who was backing up in the AHL last year before he came to the Isles over two goaltenders who have been All-Stars in the NHL is suspect to me.
Seems to all be a matter of personal preference and arguments can be made for any of the 3 goaltenders at this point in the year. Personally, im more comfortable with the guys who have been there before. I dont think Montoya has been necessarily standing on his head during his Isles tenure so far.
by LaFontaine16 on Nov 7, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just want Montoya the chance to prove us wrong.
that’s really all I ask.
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I just want Montoya the chance to prove us wrong.
that’s really all I ask.
since you are one of the ones who thinks he has already proven himself as a starter, wouldnt you want him to have the chance to prove you RIGHT, not wrong?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
either way works...
give him starts to PROVE HIMSELF. Nabby too… we know where FSR will be for the next 10 years… he has plenty of time to prove himself again.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I don't need to be right all the time.
I don’t dislike DP.. we just happened to take different sides on the DP vs. Montoya argument. I want nothing more than for DP to be great and earn his contract.. but the bottom line is that he hasn’t YET!
If Montoya ends up not being the long term answer, so be it. However, he has done nothing but more than what was expected of him so until he starts playing the AHL/1st round bust that everyone thought he’d be, let the guy start.
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, we do not "take different sides"
You think that eleven games among three goalies is enough to take a side in the first place, and I do not. I refuse to take a side based on practically nothing. Thats what I keep explaining and yet I keep being told over and over that I am “taking sides”.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Please don't use GAA.
That is all.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
by garik16 on Nov 7, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I think this line says it all.....
“Even amidst a scoreless streak that encompassed the equivalent of 2 NHL games, a six-game winless streak, and a line renovation worthy of an Extreme Makeover: Home Edition episode, a lot of the focus was still on DiPietro, even though goaltending has been the least of the Islanders problems this year.”
Its easy to pick on Rick, deserved or not. As dose said above, i dont think we’ve had enough time to evaluate Ricky. He’s been out for so long, and battling nagging injuries the last few seasons. Nobody would jump back in the best league in the world and pick up right where they left off.
Having said that i dont think we’ve had enough time to evaluate any of the 3 goalies yet and i personally dont see a problem with a 3 goaltender rotation at this stage of the season. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
by LaFontaine16 on Nov 7, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I get the angst towards DiPo, but I will say it's a joke that our fans booed him at home. They are Just classless fans that just don't get it.
It’s about a brilliant as having your major goal/purpose being the failure of the president.
by NewIsles on Nov 7, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m gonna be another one to say, I’m not pro or anti Ricky. Overall all 3 goalies have played well. They’ve kept their team in every game. Yes, he still wanders. Can’t argue with that. Now I can remember back in the day, Kelly Hrudey was a pretty good goalie IMO. He was my 1st favorite player. I got into hockey after the dynasty days. But I do remember Hrudey used to come way out of the net to challenge shooters. Sometimes it worked and sometimes they simply skated around him and shot into an empty net. The point is maybe you can’t stop him from doing what he thinks works for him. Maybe just like you can’t put Gilles on the ice and tell him to play nice. There are 3 goalies on this team that could potentially take over the starting job. It would hurt them to not play. So for now I guess this is what we are gonna see. There’s no market for a goalie right now. My feeling is Montoya should be our #1 guy, but they all must play. Ricky and his giant contract aren’t going anywhere so why not play him and see if he can win the fans and his confidence back. Nabby needs to play for whatever his motives are. If he doesn’t want to stay here, so be it. I’m sure he knows he has to stay attractive to the rest of the league regardless. So right now we have 3 goalies that have done their jobs so far.
No DiPi....No Montoya either?
StapeNewsday Arthur Staple
Appears that Evgeni Nabokov will get the start tonight for #Isles in Boston.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
In a way maybe it makes sense?
When it was the big game against the Sharks, Nabbys former crew, Rick got the start.
Now that we are going to Boston, Ricks hometown, Nabby gets the start.
Actually he would have been the third goalie I would have thought we would have seen in tonight- but Im fine with it.
Hey, Versus crowd! Look at Nabby! Look at him! Ya want him?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Very surprised Montoya didn't get it if not DiPi.
So now Cappy has gone and complelely mixed up what I thought was going to be a four game rotation for each of the netminders. I thought they’d all get around four starts, look terrible in game three maybe switch sooner, look great in game four get game five, but now I’m not so sure.
More than anything I hope Montoya didn’t “tweak” anything in practice, but I haven’t rea danything anywhere saying that is even a slight possibility. Could they be going with the vet for the tough assignment against the defending Cup champs? Anyone know Nabby’s reacord against the bears?
I think the whole Vs thing is a joke, right? Can’t seriously think of a GM that says hey the game is on cable tonight, great we don’t need to send scouts to trade for this guy.
hhmmmm.
I guess the Isles angle is, we need to find out what we have in Nabby and Dipo…..Nabby for trade value…..and Dipo to see if he can stay healthy enough to at least be a backup. Seems a little odd given Montoya got the first 4 starts. i hope they’ve effectively communicated with Montoya so he stays engaged. I really expected Dipo to get the start, ad then we would cycle through again with Montoya, Nabby, then Dipo. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. I;’m sort of lost at this point. Have no idea what they are doing unless my first hypothesis from above is right???
Nabby for trade value…..and Dipo to see if he can...
now this would be in keeping in with the fine tradition of management decisions that has done to turn a once proud franchise into a myth of former greatness!
BRILLIANT!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
Something like that...plus
Think team is evaluating all three. First, can Rick stay healthy and does he show signs of beinging able to be effective @ NHL level in future either as starter or backup (for this part keep in mind CBA ends this year and depending on next CBA you may see another buyout window open and as shocking as it might sound to some Isles might go that route with RDP depending on this season). Second, what’s the real deal with Montoya? His one year contract suggests that like PAP and Moulson before him, Isles liked what they saw but aren’t totally sold yet and he needs to show them more this year. Third, Nabokov…he’s a 1yr veteran “insurance policy” on all of the above. Every one of them has even more motivation than usual cause of the crowd in the crease. X factor in all of this is Poulin, et al in Bridgeport. Depending on what’s going on there between now and February you could see either Al (6th Rd pick to Phnx) and/or Nabby ($650k bargain) moving on depending on market value/return.
well I must admit!
it’s something, I wish the front office would do this much thinking…
what really sucks is it’s only the first week of November and management miss management has made the fans brains work overtime for a soulution…
crap, the NHL season hasnt even started yet!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
I don't see how the goaltending has been a sign of mismanagement
The goaltending has been solid, the defense not particulalry stellar to start the season and the offense was been pop-gun the past few games. Goaltending has been such a rare luxury and we should be glad that we have three goaltenders playing well. Are we so used to 5 bad goaltenders that we hate it when we actually have decisions to make in goal?
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
when mismanagement sign a contract
with a goal tender for 15 years, that is well, ahh, mismanagement,
when even the NHL front office say, boys you don’t want to do this and they plod alone anyway, for a GOALIE
that would be
“goaltending mismanagement” in the same sentence
shut up and skate!!!!!!
So we go back to the contract that Wang signed DP to.
Should Snow not have picked up Nabokov on waivers? Should Snow not have made the deal for Montoya when Nabokov decided to screw the Islanders in the first place? Is that the mismanagement we are talking about?
by Hockey1919 on Nov 8, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it where just the goalies that would be simple
employee number 39:
The numbers of the past 5 years, that’s, count them, FIVE YEARS are
105 games played, 38 victories 63 losses (don’t do it, OTL is still a LOSS! or 13 points left on the table!
38 victories, which I might add, is 76 points, FIVE years of total play can’t make the point cut for the playoffs, in any of the last FIFTEEN YEARS!
you, who are married to this guy, need to repeat that sentence to your self, over and over again, till you wakeup and hire a fuckin divorce attorney!
employee number 35:
Two partial seasons cant be a watershed measure of who he WILL be, as it is just a snapshot. But 24 games played, 11 wins 7 losses shows much promise.
employee number #20: Evgeni Nabokov
(first off, I have a habit I have developed over the years, when I lose trust or faith in a sports person, or people in my life, or don’t know enough about them to render an opinion they lose there name, until they prove worthy of a title they are called nothing, asshole, fuckface, or in sports employee number fill in the blank.)
Now, this guy I know, his numbers over his last 10 years prove out my faith in his past abilities, but I just didn’t read his stats, I lived it, watched him live, over those 10 years, just flat ass kick ass!
If he, after a too long a NHL layoff, gets back to 80% of his form he will be W-L-OTL better than 100% of the other TWO employees in net!
now that the goalies have been beaten or praised into submission let it be said they are not the Islanders malaise, not matter the saves, the net minder need help, smart “D” to stop those second and third shots on net, and an offence that, can, well, ahh,
SHOT AT THE NET, SCORE A FEW FREAKIN GOALS, PREFERABILY ON A NIGHTLY BASIS, OK IF THAT IS TO MUCH TO ASK HOW ABOUT EVERY OTHER NIGHT! I MEAN REALLY BOYS, WHAT THE FREAKIN HELL ARE YOU GETTING PAID FOR?
Sorry, I know I was loud just then, I ll stop yelling! this team has me so mad I have run out of my own cats to kick and I’m startin in on the neighbors felines!!
OK simple instruction, even a hockey player can understand,
More games like the one against the Capitols,
Less or better yet, no more like the ones against the Panthers or Penguins!
And, since it’s close to game time, as far as the Beanies are concerned,
score some goals, 2, 3 maybe,
and Nabby "YOU GO KICK THERE ASS NOW YA HEAR!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
by J.t. Day on Nov 7, 2011 12:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I know of no Islander ever who’s been more committed to the team than Rick DiPietro. And the pressure on him: the contract, the media, the fans, his career. I bet if if knew 87% of fans supported him — instead of the other way around — he’d be a lot more confident and effective in goal. One of the best parts of getting older is learning the value of patience and perseverance. The Islander I’d most like to see lift the Cup is Ricky.
by 19InARow on Nov 7, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
19 in a row.....i agree
Being a fan of a team where virtually nobody in the league wants to come and play, you’d think Isles fans would be appreciative of someone who is determined and dedicated to win here and win here only. It’s easy to say that nobody would want Rick now with that contract so he doesnt have a choice to play anywhere else, but Ricky’s never been about that.
Top Reasons Rick Dipietro draws resentment from fans:
1) his contract
2) injuries
3) where he was drafted
None of those are his fault and the contract has not held the team back from anything. Obviously, his play is not at the level it was before his first injury during his all star season, but he hasnt been fully healthy since. This is the 1st year he seems healthy. So lets see what hes got. I dont understand why more people wouldnt be pulling for the guy rather than trying to dig the hole deeper.
by LaFontaine16 on Nov 7, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His contract has held them back...
the contract has not held the team back from anything
If it wasn’t for thjs contract we wouldn’t be TRYING him out just to see what he can do….His contract would’ve expired and nobody would’ve picked him up in his condition…He should have been a free agent by now and we all know he wouldnt even be starting on an NHL team in his situation…He is only where he is because of his contract so to say hes not effecting us or holding us back is an understatement to say the least…We wouldn’t even be having this discussion about playing the best goalie we have instead of the guy with the contract if he didnt hold us back….Granted its not his fault that he has that contract…But he has it and it is a determent to say the least….
Dude, Ricky gets paids many millions to be loyal....I don't feel sorry for him...He gets paid even tho most pro athletes had to earn their keep...
He did not…So lets put away the violins…I’ll take his millions and get booed any friggen day of the week…Im in sales and get rejected day in and day out for peanuts…Nobody is feeling sorry for me, lol….
Welcome aboard, Chris!
As far as DP goes…. I honestly want to like him.
I just want him to stop the head-scratching mistakes. I think a third of all the goals scored on him this year made me utter an audible “Huh?”. If only he cut those out, you’d have a goalie who lets up a lot of rebounds, and yet has a GAA of around 2.00. Kinda like Nabokov.
And if I was offered a goalie who will give me heart attacks on a nightly basis, but still only allow two goals a game, I’d take that deal (and upgrade my medical insurance).
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 7, 2011 12:42 PM EST reply actions
He's not new. This is ChrismcXXXX that changed his username and profile pic. He's been around for a while, I think at least a year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Oh OK thanks.
Name changes have become a bit more commonplace lately. Maybe i should change mine to a symbol. It’ll be half “Prince” half Isles logo.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 7, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
"the pressure on him"
HE GOT SIXTY SEVEN MILLION FREAKIN DOLLARS!
that should buy enough Niquil to relive some of his “pressure”,WTF!
shut up and skate!!!!!!
Good article. I'm just sick of the fingerpointing at RDP this year for no reason.
He’s not playing bad or costing us games/points, and that’s all that counts. So there is really no reason to jump on him right now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
by OzzyFan on Nov 7, 2011 12:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Thats not the point....
Isles fans want to see the guys that earned their spots to play…Thats what the issue is…If DP was better than Monty then this wouldnt be a discussion….Instead we are talking about the same ole crap…Why is DP in nets when we had a guy playing stellar before him???Isles fans want to be proud for once…Instead of feeling like we’re rooting for a 2nd rate org who puts winning on the back burner..1 player should not be bigger than the team…Even JT…
Whoever starts im happy with
What I don’t want to see anymore is the three goalie rotation. We’ve tried it before and it doesn’t work so well. It also costs us another spot for an extra forward which will hurt when Nino gets back up. All in all I believe we have 3 solid goal tenders at the very least. We’ve Al Mo put the team on his back towards the end of last season and Ricky do it when we made the playoffs in 08. I wanna see someone traded because even if Ricky gets hurt again we have Poulin who played well last year, even though hes been stinking it up in the AHL this year, and Nilsson whos been playing well.
Constantly building for the future.
by pgat28 on Nov 7, 2011 1:41 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Maybe it is just me…
But statistics so far this season really don’t sway me one way or another – I believe what I see with my own eyes. I have been to games and watched Rick and Montoya and Nabby all warm up, makes saves, scramble around, etc. And maybe it is just me, but it is night and day the way Montoya moves and the way Rick moves – Now, let me say, I have nothing against Rick or his contract – I would LOVE for him to do well, along with the rest of the team, I don’t care how much he makes in the process. But when I watch Ricky, he simply ambulates around the net like an old man. It is obvious he can’t move like he once did – and while he might "get away with it" on some nights and only allow a few goals, I simply don’t think he has the athleticism anymore to be a dominate force in the league. However, I have seen (and we all have last year) Montoya do some things, that you can look at and say, "Wow, this guy moves like a cat, they aren’t scoring on him tonight." I can’t imagine myself ever saying that about Ricky, not anymore. Now, it is tragic, he had so much potential, but I honestly feel that Rick will just be another "if only he didn’t get hurt" players that are numerous in all sports. I really wish the Islanders would/could turn the page on him – and I REALLY like the guy – but he isn’t what is best for the team.
I have a nickname!
I always thought it would be The Gravedigger for how many chances I bury or Bullseye for my deadly accuracy, hell maybe even Shooter. But I guess Scoring Chance Chris is better than nothing. At least it shows I get a lot of quality opportunities.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
At least he didn't call you "Koko"
But if you like, when speaking to you directly I’ll call you T-bone!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Id prefer Hambone
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 7, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
We'll see what sticks ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Well...
Scoring chance Chris is almost like “First Base” Andy…. which never really caught on.
Not sure if you were around for that, but I used that more at IPB. Andy hilbert in front of the net reminded me of a teenager trying to get to second base in back seat of his father’s car…. without success.
At least Scoring Chance Chris implies opportunity more than failure.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
NEW QUESTION
Can FishStickRick win games in the AHL?
I’d waive him and let him start at least three away games for the Sound Tigers. If he can prove himself down there, then he’ll get another shot in the NHL. If not, stay on that bus big fella… and maybe we hit the lottery and somebody picks you up on re-entry waivers.
That will give us at least a little time to figure out what to do with the OTHER options. Instead of focusing on what we are going to do with FSR. F..FSR he’s gonna be around for 10 more years whether we like it or not. The fans don’t want to see him right now… and those fans are starting to come back… don’t make them go away again.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
In a pefect world
I would waive him as well. I’d let him play half a season down at the Bidge and have Nabokov and Montoya rotate games. Then at midseason trade Nabokov and bring Ricky back up and let him rotate games with Montoya until the season is over. At thatpoint you would know if DiPietro can be part of this teams future. If not you sit him down and say ‘Look we need to go in a different direction’ and either buy him out or next season send him down to Bridgeport again and give Poulin or even Nilsson a shot. At that point, since you already did it this year, sending him down won’t be such an issue or foreign idea.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 7, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then you get to write about how having Ricky in the AHL ruined the Islanders goaltending prospects for the next 15 years.
This time you forgot to add the caveat about how you like Ricky DP, “I had to send him to the chair, I felt I owed it to him”.
Not really...
The roster spot becomes less important. If he’s winning games down there he gets another shot, If he can’t even be a factor there then eventually he sits in the press box in bridgeport. It’s way harder to waive Al or Nabby, THEY’D GET PICKED UP.
But the roster spot that he takes up becomes less important… and eventually he retires or becomes the highest paid malcontent in sports. Who cares. Or he WORKS his way back into NHL relevance…. that would be great too.
The key word is opportunity. He had a fair opportunity to win his role. He was not better than Montoya (especially if you extend Montoya’s tenure back to last year) and he did not out-perform Nabokov. He was (however marginally it was) the third best goaltender.
Why is he not subject to consequence?
And he will be the MOST REWARDED OF THE THREE….BY FAR!!!! He will just have to wait on his next opportunity. Letting this continue is like flipping for baseball cards with your friends and you lose the first two… “okay, best of 5”… you lose again… “best of 7”… and so on… until you can’t see over the pile of cards you’ve amassed.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How does a four headed monster in BPT not take away form the prospects developing?
He played three games and wasn’t given anything. He was given three games after everyone else had 4 straight starts and only after Cappy faked Nabby’s injury (your premise) was inserted into a streak where the team was playing poorly.
They can loan goalies to ECHL
if it gets too crowded in Bridgeport. Koskinen has been playing better… so has Poulin… but both of them can use the extra low quality starts anyway. Nilsson and FSR probably are the best two goaltenders available to BPT right now.
As he (FSR) is demoted, the space he takes up is less valuable. If he goes down you can pring up a kid like Wishart to skate with the team and maybe replace Staios or AMAC on a gameday when they’re not feeling it. On that note, I’d send Mottau down too and maybe have Gillies or haley with the team as well… mostly in the pressbox though.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
And he will be the MOST REWARDED OF THE THREE….BY FAR!!!!
I do not see how making wild speculation (based on what?) and getting angry as if what youre saying is true makes sense. The guy has the LEAST amount of starts among the Isles three goalies, and yet I keep reading about how he is being coddled, accomodated, etc etc etc. Its like people are literally letting their imaginations run away with them and thinking what they are dreaming up is taking place.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I heard DP knifed Nabokov to get into the shootout against the Penguins and the Islander management covered it up.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 8, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sending DP down would put Isles under cap
He would certainly clear waivers (nobody is taking that contract, even at 1/2 price)
Sending him down would stunt the development on the 3 kids already down there. The 6 goalies on 2 teams is a bad situation, but having 4 on the farm would be worse long-term.
Also, his performance so far is not deserving of a demotion and comparing statistics based on such small sample from each of the goalies is nonsense.
The 3 goalies on the Island has not been a problem so far. The Islanders have not lost games due the goalies yet. They are losing because they cannot put the puck in the net (last game excluded)
It's temprorary...
and nobody even really knows what the penalty is for going below the cap. I think wang would have to disburse the amount among the active NHL roster to make it right. So, basically the penalty gives frans more money… which tehn makes me infavor of releasing DP and Rolston.
Plus… they should have the ability to lend players to an ECHL team. I’m sure Thompson is going through the same situation now… but the roster spot in BPT is less important than the NHL one. (see above)
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I really want Montoya to start..
.. but I don’t think DP has been bad enough to go down to the AHL.. in the past 2 or 3 years, I would’ve loved to see him in the AHL.. but this year, I think although he doesn’t look great, he does finally look like an NHL goalie
by BaltimoreIslander on Nov 7, 2011 3:20 PM EST reply actions
Whats gonna be great is that, when he DOES get a start, which is going to happen soon enough, there are ready-made excuses for him if he doesnt look great. Its like I can see them already lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I want Montoya to play great.
I want him to prove he is better than DP and Nabokov. I don’t want Nabokov and DP to suck so that he has to take the job (and so far those two have not disappointed).
by Hockey1919 on Nov 7, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are taking sense as far as Im concerned.
Id love if all three of them were stealing games and getting shutouts. But there arent (yet) and Im not going to make pretend that one of them is doing the best fo them all just because I want him to. Im also not going to get to the point where Im deluding myself into thinking that watching a few games worth of hockey is worthy of making sweeping generalizations with confidence.
For the record, my favorite Islanders goalie has spent time recovering from knee surgery- and deserves patience- but its not who these people seem to assume it is. Nobody even asks- they just think because Im not inter3ested in jumping onboard the irrational “20 games is enough time to make proclamations about a goalie” train that they somehow “know” what Im thinking. Its ridiculous.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
BPT
I have to believe that a lot of the fan frustration comes from the fact that DiPietro is still trying to prove he’s healthy enough and good enough to be an NHL goaltender while in the NHL. The fact that he played 0 games in the AHL last season is a bit absurd. It ended up costing the team dearly and in the end he proved very little, and it’s a year later and feels as though we’re in the exact same predicament with DiPietro.
by Dorfer on Nov 7, 2011 3:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is not last year this is this year.
I do not like what happened last year either. But this is not the same situation.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
There is a big reason for each goalie why last year is not comparable to this year.
Nabokov: Because last season he was in the KHL, you cannot compare the two.
Rick: Because this season DiPietro is not rehabbing from offseason surgery, this is the first time he is coming into a season healthy in half a decade.
Montoya: Because this season he is not an AHL backup, its his first season starting in the NHL.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
I thought you meant as to why DP hasn’t/couldn’t play a game in the AHL this year.
Tavares is Tavares.
BPT as a simple solution
Yes they could have had Larsson instead of Strome, what a dire predicament he put the Islanders in. Last few years, goaltending has meant nothing since this was barely an NHL roster and the GM knew it. This year the goaltenders have depth and someone that is playing like an NHL goaltender is going to be dealt or sit in the pressbox.
You can’t just send a guy down to the AHL either. Yes you can waive him and they have sent him for rehab stints, but a lot of the send him to the AHL talk seems like it is punishment for being DP, you know the guy with the hat and scarf I hate.
A week in the AHL
Where he proved himself to be capable of being an NHL quality goaltender (as well as the ability to stay healthy for a week) would have gone a long way. Of course, he would have proven to be a terrible goaltender, but at least he wasn’t hurting the team while doing so.
He hasn't hurt the team this season either and has been far from terrible.
You can’t just send a guy down to the AHL. What has he purposefully done to the Islanders to merit that kind of treatment? Rehab too hard? He has rehabbed in the AHL in years past as well.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 8, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you think
that Cappy went with Nabby to A) showcase him on national TV and b) so Milbury and others won’t have to talk about DiPo on national TV? DiPo on national TV could look really bad if he got lit up. Maybe they go Nabby tonight (he did leave for shootout), then one more for DiPo, and then the recycle the process with Montoya starts\ 2 games from now. Hard to figure for sure, but just throwing this out there. An idea.
He has before.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah...
I think it was on the old version of NHL live he told an anecdote about how FSR came into camp all bulked up one year… and dickbury was quite surprised. He totally went agaisnt the team’s off season direction. And then he said something like, “yeah, that kid has had a lot of opportunities… it’s unfortunate what’s happened to him, but some of this is on him”
Something like that.
I’m paraphrasing, but that is the general idea… I even brought it up here and somebody commented, “wow… now we’re quoting Mike Milbury”
So… take it for what it’s worth.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
yep...
you drafted him in front of gabby and heatly.
you tried to start him as a rookie
you traded luongo because he made little mikey stand at attention when you scouted him.
you were in the room when they decided to make him a very rich kid without ever winning anything
but yeah… “some of this is on him”
That may be true, but the part that is on YOU pretty much cost this franchise a big hunk of time… and will continue to do so. I just hope that when he invites you (meaning milbury of course) over for dinner you get the big piece of chicken.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
NO, he'd be crazy if he said anything, but they might just want to avoid the situation altogether.
Him saying ANYTHING would be a problem, even if positive. That was only half my theory, but there could be something there. The other half is, showcase Nabby on national TV.
[REPLY]---------------------------------^
The best thing to happen to the internet since Amazon.com made the enter sandman available as an MP3 single.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 7, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Biron
Why did we let 34 year old Marty get away for nothing as a RFA? Looks like he was doing well with us and is doing great with the Rags.
He was injured last season, too.
So had we kept him we still would have had to have gone out and trued to get Nabokov, Montoya, all that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
RFA?
Pretty sure he was a UFA. And again… FSR. Would you go back to an organization with two other options that will limit your playing time. You take the best option avaiable.
Rags… you don’t have to move.
Rags… you don’t have to play… much.
Rags… you don’t have to talk to yourself… they have media coverage.
Rags… you don’t have to sit in a cold pressbox, you get to chat it up with the boys on the bench.
Rags… you don’t have to watch yourself through the snow and white noise of MSG ZIPPER, more commonly known as +++++++
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
In a way...
I believe its that he was ABOUT to be an UFA, but the Islanders gave him permission to negotiate beforehand.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Probably because he hated it here
for the same reasons that Montoya and Nabokov will eventually hate it here. There really isn’t an opportunity to win a job. He also stunk pretty good while he was here.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
LOL...............
and that what the Rags are doing
On "Clean Slates" and "a chance to earn the job"
The thing I’ve found funny from those on the DP side of the fence is a recurring theme of the “clean slate” and just a chance to compete…then a few days starts years injuries goalies later, another request for a clean slate and a chance to earn the job.
This is the frustrating part for those of us who would like to move in another direction.
DP has been given a multitude of chances to win this job over the past five years…far more than Montoya and Nabokov combined as a matter of fact. What has happened is (whether you want to admit this or not) he hasn’t done it…not by a long shot. This may be due to injury, poor performance or both because honestly, the way the goaltending injury brigade has worked out over the last couple of weeks is far too convenient for me to believe it’s just a coincidence.
All things equal, no contracts, no history, no injuries, who has played better? That is the definition of a clean slate. Don’t ask for a clean slate then talk about “not enough opportunities to get back to all-star form” and then negate what Nabokov has done (which happened last year too). Don’t talk about “opportunities to prove himself” and negate that the others deserve just as much if not more based on their play.
I expect the same round of excuses from the DP supporters as usual if he fails again. Not enough reps, shaking off rust, "not significantly outplayed enough. And that is the one that confuses me…outplayed is outplayed…and the supporters are going to say it’s not by enough?
I’m not sure what the fascination is…when 99% of the planet underperforms, doesn’t perform (because of injury or other), or is blocking someone with actually better numbers, fans get aggravated.
Brandon Jacobs was a good running back who wasn’t getting it done and people wanted Bradshaw…who came in and performed.
Jorge Posada has been benched, pinch hit for and ultimately replaced as the Yankee catcher.
Why is it that in this particular case, fans are so willing to invest their hope (and the Isles to invest their time) in a four year rehabilitation to .900?
You want to talk about a clean slate, the guys who are here now and playing well should be judged without the extra consideration many want toward DP. And even if you think you’re not, if you’re qualifying things with “hasn’t cost them a game” instead of “has looked really good”, we’re already not on even footing. At some point, not playing well will catch up to you…it always does in sports and that’s why coaches try to avoid complacence and will continue to harp on what’s been done wrong.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 7, 2011 6:36 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Who have you seen "on the DiPietro side"?
Im wondering. All I keep seeing are people who are either against him or dont know whats gonna happen & think there isnt enough info this season yet. Am I missing all the people who are proclaiming that Rick is doing great and deserves all the starts? Where are they?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Where'd you get this from?
Am I missing all the people who are proclaiming that Rick is doing great and deserves all the starts? Where are they?
I’m pretty sure nothing like that is in my post. Nobody would say that because that would be categorically false and a poor management strategy. What people are saying (in the DP camp) is that he deserves an equal share of the starts because he “hasn’t cost them a game” yet.
Your perception of “people against him” is amusing when taking in to account that really most people are citing current play/numbers and those supporting that he get an equal share of the starts are just saying “it’s a small sample”, and “he hasn’t cost us a game yet” and “goaltending isn’t the problem”.
I wonder what would happen if offense wasn’t the problem and we benched a defensively responsible player that has scored 5 goals in six games? I wonder what would happen if defense wasn’t the problem and we decided not to play our best shutdown d man despite him currently having positive corsi numbers. Of course the sample is small…it’s the only one we have, but you don’t bench the hottest hand you have unless there is an attitude/character problem or something that otherwise undermines the team.
What the “equal rights for DP” brigade is doing here, is thinking that over time, AM and EN will regress…and DP will progress with a greater sample so they all need starts. That makes about as much sense as benching/demoting or cutting the ice time of guys like Kessel or Lupul while they’re on a hot streak in order to get Grabovski more ice time to get him going. (*ed note, I have no idea how Grabovski is doing or if he needs to get going…it’s just an example)
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
You specifically talk about “DP supporters” as if there are groups of people here advocating playing him over the other two goalies. Who are these people? Where are their posts?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 7, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
So now we go from this
Am I missing all the people who are proclaiming that Rick is doing great and deserves all the starts? Where are they?
Which I responded to…and now you’re on to this
You specifically talk about "DP supporters" as if there are groups of people here advocating playing him over the other two goalies. Who are these people? Where are their posts?
“Over” is an interesting choice of wording here. I think what you’re advocating is a continued “split” of some kind (not based on anything) until you are comfortable (which will coinincide with a coaching decision) that an adequate sample size is obtained to judge them effectively. I will ask what that is or if you plan to identify it prior to it arriving. (to which I assume you will say you have no idea and that’s up to the coaching staff…which releases you from reliability, but still allows you to go on being argumentative and trolling everyone with a difference of opinion).
You have posts up and down this thread that support the idea of “small sample” and nobody had won any competition yet right? Also, that they will/should all get their starts. What I said is that there are people here advocating that DP play equally, which will take away the starts of both of the other goalies in support of a guy whose numbers (for everyone) and visual play (to me) doesn’t deserve it.
You can disagree, you can yell, you can capitalize, you can troll the rest of mine and everyone else’s responses from here till eternity for all I care…not a single one of those things is going to change my mind about what I think should be done about the goaltending. It’s not closed minded, it is a carefully considered analyzed position that I’ve taken after a long observation of the options in front of me…it just doesn’t happen to be the same as yours.
I will tell you outright, I do not care what your opinion is on the matter. You do not have data to support what you are saying, (and spare me the small sample size stuff because it is all we have. I am not arguing signing Montoya to a 5 yr 25 million extension, I’m arguing about giving him the next five starts) because there is no data that supports who should play a few days in a row other than who is getting it done. The sample size stuff is used to discuss contracts and future performance predictors.
The other fun part of this, is I don’t even really care if I’m wrong. I may make a mistake calling for Montoya. Perhaps DP will outplay both and I shall have egg on my face. I am a big enough man to admit that if it happens.
What I do realize is that regardless of what I think, it ultimately doesn’t matter, I don’t make the managerial decisions or influence them in any way. So I really am not sure the vested interest you have in trolling opinion comments like these to try and change everyone’s mind???
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 8, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You know what, Keith?
I do not like the way you are treating me.
You are specifically looking for arguments- saying things like calling me a “troll” repeatedly and other shit like that, and why? Do you really see yourself as doing the right thing behaving this way? Why cant you stick to the topic instead of talking about ME?
And why are you doing this, exactly? Becuse Ive made a case that you dont agree with? Because I watch people jump to conclusions and have the audacity to talk about it?
Frankly I do not care that you do not care about my opinion. That still doesnt mean that what you are doing here is right. Talk about what Im talking about, not about me. Youre supposed to be a leader around here- yet if I did what youre doing right now, you would reprimand me (again).
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Have you ever considered
others here don’t like how they’re being treated by you? Have you considered that five minutes before you wrote this, you jumped down a newbie’s throat (Madswede-Turtledove), because you don’t agree with that opinion either?
I’m really not sure I’m behaving in the “right way”, but let’s recap…
- I make my post (to nobody in particular…just some thoughts).
* You reply to my post asking where all the people are that are proclaiming Rick deserves ALL the starts (which is either a straw man or red herring thing…I lack the ability to care to find out). - I ask you where I said it, because I didn’t.
- You come back with a different (term to define creating things i never said) that “people are advocating Rick start OVER the other two goalies”.
- I indicate that I am tired of you trolling DP posts (mine in particular) and attributing things I never said, back to me.
- You proclaim that I have made this about you and am treating you poorly.
I have made points based on my opinion, I have backed that opinion with data and common hockey practices. I have refuted the the things you have falsely attributed to me and requested that you stop trolling my posts (really speaking about your behavior noted by using the verb form “troll-ing” and not using the noun form in calling you a “troll”…which I don’t believe is usually the case with you).
And somehow, I made this about you?
TMC, you have made this about you because you have been the majority opposition voice against multiple people in this thread and several others where this topic has been brought up.
I’m sorry that you feel you’re being treated unfairly, but correlation does not equal causation…it’s not personal. I would say the same things to Dom if he has been doing what you have here.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Have you ever considered others here don’t like how they’re being treated by you? Have you considered that five minutes before you wrote this, you jumped down a newbie’s throat (Madswede-Turtledove), because you don’t agree with that opinion either?
Disagreeing is not jumping down someones throat. The way I see it, jumping down someones throat is when you put your disagreement aside and start commenting on them personally.
I’m really not sure I’m behaving in the "right way",
Me, either.
but let’s recap…
I make my post (to nobody in particular…just some thoughts).
* You reply to my post asking where all the people are that are proclaiming Rick deserves ALL the starts (which is either a straw man or red herring thing…I lack the ability to care to find out). I ask you where I said it, because I didn’t.
I have been told by numerous people that I am in some kind of camp that people seem certain exists. Who is IN this alleged camp? I am asking you because I wanted and would still like to know who all the advocates are who are being referred to. What I think is that there has been a kneejerk reaction from many people that anyone who is not advocating Al Montoya as the Isles boy wonder in net must automatically be rooting against him and have an agenda based on one of the other two goalies- most accuations along those lines seeming to be regarding DiPietro, as I have not seen anyone asserting that Nabokob is the benefactor of the secret conspiracy to advocate him and give him preferential treatment.
I have been completely misread, people are saying whatever they imagine and telling me that it is my opinion even when I tell them its not, and it is frustrating. I am not in anyones “camp” but apparently I have to be thrown in one anyway? I sound defensive because I have- ridiculously- been having to defend myself left and right on this one.
You come back with a different (term to define creating things i never said) that "people are advocating Rick start OVER the other two goalies".
I never said I was quoting you, but your argument did seem to rest on the idea that there are indeed people doing this, and I have not seen any of them.
I indicate that I am tired of you trolling DP posts (mine in particular) and attributing things I never said, back to me.
You proclaim that I have made this about you and am treating you poorly.
We are on a topic specifically created to discuss goalies. You comment and I respond- as do many others- and yet, you tell me over and over that I am “trolling” and instead of talking about the topic (goaltending) you are- once again- talking about me.
I have made points based on my opinion, I have backed that opinion with data and common hockey practices.
I do not agree with that… it is not common hockey practice to even have three starting goalies in the first place, so theres little to nothing common about this situation. But as far as goalie evaluation goes in general, I would say if anything it is common hockey practice to need a LOT more information before drawing conclusions. Id even say that it is common for fanbases and organizations who make binding judgments and moves based on how good a goalie is within an extremely small sample sizes to be ridiculed, even.
I have refuted the the things you have falsely attributed to me and requested that you stop trolling my posts (really speaking about your behavior noted by using the verb form "troll-ing" and not using the noun form in calling you a "troll"…which I don’t believe is usually the case with you).
And somehow, I made this about you?
Saying things like this is not lending itself to the topic, it is not lending itself to a peaceful thread, it is not lending itself to alleviating any misunderstandings or disagreements, and I am certain you know all of that. I am not doing this to you and I am not say things like this to you- nor would I.
TMC, you have made this about you because you have been the majority opposition voice against multiple people in this thread and several others where this topic has been brought up.
Because what I am saying is not being echoed by multitudes, that somehow makes it OK for things to be personal? How does that make sense? And FYI I agree with what has been said regarding the goalie situation by many people- Dom and 1919 come to mind.
I’m sorry that you feel you’re being treated unfairly, but correlation does not equal causation…it’s not personal. I would say the same things to Dom if he has been doing what you have here.
Im sorry that disagreeing with the majority and not wanting to jump to any conclusions- good or bad- about any player (which is all I have been advocating if you go back and look) is a sticking point all of the sudden. I find that really unfortunate.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Found your problem
jumping down someones throat is when you put your disagreement aside and start commenting on them personally.
This isn’t how all other people feel, so consider that when making your arguments and your all set. Watch your tone, watch your frequency, watch your capitalization for emphasis, watch your cursing selection, watch your selective use of pronouns, watch your use of if/then (if people are going to do___, they must be (insane, stupid etc.) and attacks by proxy.
Whether you recognize it or not, many of the above can make people feel as if they’re personally attacked whether you intended it that way or not.
As for the meat of the argument, I’m not going to address/rehash it because it’s been done throughout this and other threads. The problem is, because you disagree, the responses other people have given will not suffice…and I’m not sure I can make you see that other side or even care if you do. Sometimes these things happen…consensus is not reached…but we don’t have to beat it into the ground to this point.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 8, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
^ a much better response from my POV :)
I will definitely watch the things youre saying, but I would like it noticed that I have not been posting anything like “if people are going to do___, they must be (insane, stupid etc.)” and Im not going to do that. The only thing thats standing out is that there are indeed relatively few of who are not already convinced that Al Montoya has shown something in his “years” as an NHL starter.
But the only thing that will really prove any of this out is time. Id love if Montoya is the great starter you and so many others already believe him to be. I hope youre all right and that when there IS enough of a sample- I would just like it known that you guys being proved right would not be me being proved wrong, because Ive never said he CANT do it, or that he wont do it, or that I dont WANT him to do it, Ive said that he hasnt done it YET. I cant be any clearer than that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
if DP plays the same number of games as the others, he is playing over the other two goalies. Each game that a goalie plays, he plays over the other two goalies. So every time someone advocates for even playing time, they are advocating for DP to play over Montoya and Nabokov.
I’m not sure how to read you chasing down every comment on this site advocating Montoya as the starter as anything but DP support.
Tavares is Tavares.
if DP plays the same number of games as the others, he is playing over the other two goalies. Each game that a goalie plays, he plays over the other two goalies. So every time someone advocates for even playing time, they are advocating for DP to play over Montoya and Nabokov.
Rick has the fewest starts and the least TOI of the three. And I dont care. I am not concerned. I do not CARE who plays, because none of them has done anything to rise above the other two. I hope one of them does. Out of the three, it would most likely be Montoya who would do it. But that doesnt mean Im going to make-pretend that he is playing head and shoulders above the other two based on just a few damn games! Now I hope you understand that because Im sick of explaining it.
I’m not sure how to read you chasing down every comment on this site advocating Montoya as the starter as anything but DP support.
Absolutely ridiculous- and also not happening. I cant be any clearer, Ive explained my poisiton so many times, yet you refuse to read what Im typing and instead invent an opinion in your mind and attribute it to me.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely ridiculous- and also not happening.
Really? There are about two dozen comments from you on this post alone contesting people who advocate for Montoya. It’s become a personal crusade for you to argue against anyone who thinks he deserves a chance as the #1 goalie. It’s borderline troll behavior to be honest, because you dismiss what they did last year, you dismiss what they did this year, and point at some magical moment in the future when it is clear that one of them is better than the other two.
Tavares is Tavares.
Nope.
Wrong yet again.
It doesnt matter what I say, you have in your mind what I think and apparently what you imaigne is my opinion means a lot more than what I actually say for myself.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I didnt say that either.
But no, youre not looking to just pick fights and argue here- nope, not at all.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not
at all, it’s just annoying when 1/4 of the thread is you arguing that Montoya (or anyone else) does not deserve a chance at being the #1 goalie yet and all three goalies deserve equal time. That’s how you feel. I get it. You don’t need to post it 600 times on every thread.
Tavares is Tavares.
you arguing that Montoya (or anyone else) does not deserve a chance at being the #1 goalie
So youre sick of something that I never said and have not done. OK.
Afro, I have not said that. shoulndt that count for anything? How come you can tell me what my opinion is but my own words are ignored? You have to realize that doesnt make sense.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
A lot of us want to see Montoya be the #1 goalie and see what he can do with that.
When you say no goalie has earned the #1 spot yet, you are saying Montoya should not be the #1 goalie right now. How else can I interpret that?
Tavares is Tavares.
Id advise against interpreting and extrapolating regarding how I feel.
For example. You state that you “want” Montoya to be the Isles #1 goalie.
Just because I think he hasnt shown enough yet to be handed a starting job over the other teo, you presume that means I do NOT “want” Montoya to be the Isles starter. Instead or presuming, how about asking?
Imaginary question: “TMC- who do you think out of these three guys is on top so far?”
Answer: Out fo the three of them Montoya. But its obviously close.
I did nto say that anyone should or should not be the #1 goalie at this time. I said I dont care which goalies they play. If the Isles played Montoya a bunch of times, why would I have a problem with it if I have told you time and again that I do not care which goalie they play? Dont you see that you dreamed up the whole idea of me having a problem with him playing?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
No, I can’t, and I have nothing left to say about it. Thankfully I know I’m not alone.
Tavares is Tavares.
No?
So instead of what I say about my opinion, even though Ive told you that its wrong and thats not how I feel, it doesnt matter- you nontheless prefer your own projections and assumptions regarding how I feel than my own words. OK then.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
He's a Milbury leftover
but it is not just for that reason that I don’t want him around. First, he seems to have a sense of entitlement he hasn’t earned. Second, watching him Saturday night was scary – so scary I turned the game off after the first period.b don’t care who they put in there as long as he can stop one more shot than the guy at the other. And this guy, big contract or no ain’t it.
Youth
Th Isle’s played the 2nd half last year with youth. The chemistry is not there! It seems they play with more fire with Montoya. Most likely because he was there for them last season. I’d trade Nabby and try to get shooter. Okopso is not skating like he use to. I think he is afraid to get injured again. Too many missed rebounds shots, 2nd opportunities. Which means thir pressing to much and not having any fun. It is a game
afterall.
by Madswede-Turtledove on Nov 8, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions
It seems they play with more fire with Montoya.
Is that what youd call last bnight- “fire”?
The Islanders have looked good AND horrible in front of all three goalies. But I know, I know, nobody is going to convince many of you of that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 8, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
