Islanders vs. Sabres Gameday: Small market meets small- wait, what?
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 12:37 PM EST
in New York Islanders Previews
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PrintTonight is the first time the Islanders face Buffalo since the Sabres went from Little Market That Could to fully operational Terry Pegula Death Star. Over the summer, the Pegula Foundation went all in on spending to the cap, spending cash and asking questions later.
Islanders (6-11-4, 15th/E) @ Sabres (13-9-1, 7th/E)
7 p.m. | MSG+ and such | Audio: NHL - WRHU
[no idea what it's called anymore] Center/Place/Arena/not-Aud
Feeling Suddenly Richer: Die by the Blade
While Islanders fans wonder if Blake Comeau's $2.5 million non-arbitration award was a factor in getting him removed from the 3rd/4th line mix of passengers, the Sabres are allocating a $4.5 million cap hit through 2016-17 to Ville Leino, who has already seen fourth-line time for passenger-like behavior.
The Sabres' cap sheet at CapGeek reads like a Congressman's expense account, with Christian Ehrhoff's cap trailing off the right margin into infinity like a legislative issue no politicians want to deal with while they're still in office.
Win now, win tomorrow, and deal with the next CBA when it comes. (On that note, Ryan Miller trade rumors sound crazy, but if you think about which position on their roster has too much money relative to market price, Miller stands out.)
Not that he makes Miller expendable, but Jhonas Enroth has a great name (albeit an oddly placed "h") and has been excellent lately. Maybe he has Jedi vision. As long as we're doling out the Star Wars references, I can never hear his name without thinking of the desolate ice- and snow-covered planet Hoth, which [oh, just insert your own Buffalo joke here why don't you?].
Leino, by the way, is 12th on the Sabres in scoring with 2 goals and 4 assists. He's also tied for a team-low minus-5, as long as we're piling on the profligates.
Wounded Sabres: Getting Healthier
Of more immediate concern is the Sabres' spate of injuries, including Miller but also touching forward and defense -- and building depth to withstand that, more than anything, is why you spend to the cap if you can swing it. Tyler Myers is out with that broken wrist, Tyler Ennis and Miller are still out for at least a little longer, but Drew Stafford, Robyn Regehr and Dirty Kaleta went from the "might play" category yesterday to the "expected to play" slot this morning.
As a team, the Sabres bleed about the same number of shots (31.1) as the Isles but put nearly three more per game (30.9) on the opposition net. Their special teams are also performing quite nicely, with the PK at 88.4% and the PP at 19.3%.
They've been hurting and slumping (losing four of eight in regulation and going 1-1 in shootouts in two others), but they just put the final nail in Bruce Boudreau's tenure with the Capitals. All the injuries have fed the debut of Zack Kassian, who was selected one spot after Calvin de Haan in 2009 and who once injured 2009's #1 pick John Tavares in a CHL prospects exhibition.
Islanders Lineup: Return of Nino, Reasoner; More Montoya
In the parlance of our times, or at least of moments when Butch Goring gets excited, Al "Toyota" will start again in goal with Rick "DiPiestro" backing up. That's no shock. But Nino Niederreiter returns to the lineup to calm fan anxieties and Marty Reasoner returns in favor of Micheal Haley to calm mine.
(I actually saw tweets that the Islanders are "ruining" the raw 19-year-old Nino by having the nerve to scratch him for a week. The hyperbole of sports fans knows no limit.)
Newsday's Arthur Staple reports that David Ullstrom stays on Josh Bailey's wing with Brian Rolston, while Reasoner centers Nino and Matt Martin. At the risk of "ruining" Nino, I personally don't mind working him in slowly and building his game one fundamental brick at a time.
Memories: A meeting last season between these two teams featured the crazy sequence that saw Al Montoya (Oh what a feeling) get his first Islanders appearance while Michael Grabner capped a hat trick with the OT winner.
With the Isles at 6-11-4, we should be so lucky to be so entertained tonight. The Islanders are eight places and 11 points behind the Sabres in the East.
FIG Picks
If you participate in our First Islanders Goal (and assists) pool, leave your picks over here. Remember that no picks are allowed after the opening faceoff, and only one pick per person.
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Leino has actually been playing well of late. Not producing and certainly not justifying his contract, but doing everything else well.
Not sure how much stock to put in the Miller trade rumors. There were Sabre fans who’d bring this up but they’d mostly be ridiculed. The journalist who wrote that piece had one of the first leads on Pegula last year so he clearly has his sources. Then again, if I were a millionaire star goalie with a hot actress wife living and working in LA, I might not want to deal with jerks calling for the other guy to start/the scrutiny that professional athletes face in Buffalo. Not like it’s Toronto or Montreal, but it’s certainly not New York or LA either.
That being said, not sure where he’d go to be closer to his wife. All the California teams have competent goalies.
Thanks
I was trying to figure out how Leino had been doing lately. I have him as an up-and-down player who’s always going to need some pushing and never earn that contract, but at what price, depth?
The Miller rumor is funny, but it did get me thinking … not from his end but from management’s. If you guys had two solid and cheap goalies you believe in, going cheap in goal is one way to keep affording everybody else.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The Sabres don’t have great organizational depth at Goalie, which is why I don’t buy the rumor. As many accolades as he’s gotten at the AHL level, Drew MacIntyre is unproven in the NHL. Enroth has played well, but I’m not sure he’ll hold up over the long term. They are right against the cap though.
Buffalo's depth
Goalie is a position they’ve neglected in the past couple of drafts, although Nathan Leiuwen is looking like a steal in the 6th round right now. Enroth (2nd round) is the last goalie they picked before the 6th round and that was five drafts ago.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Nov 29, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not neglect, that’s smart drafting.
Drafting goalies before the 6th round (or ever) is a fool’s errand.
=d
Exhibit A: Cody Rosen
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sarcasm fail
(But seriously, there is a vast countryside between 1st round and 7th. You still need to draft goalies. Doing it before 6th is not criminal. Doing it in the 1st is.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Or hell, let's do Exhibits C-F
The Flames wanted to draft any one of Sean Burke, Troy Gamble or Kay Whitmore, and when they went 1-2-3 right before their 2nd round pick, they had to “settle” for Joe Nieuwendyk.
#20/20draftporn
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Youre big on the porn Dom
I think someone needs to check your web browser history
Fast and furious coverage of the slow and steady rebuild
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's a growth industry
Technological pioneers, they.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Didn’t we take the great Tommy Salo in the 1st RD back in 1984?
We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on Nov 29, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
I owe you a beer
That’s what I get for being pedantic!
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Nope
Fifth round, 1993. (It would be fourth round today, he was the 118th pick overall.) The Isles’ first rounder in 1984 was the ill-fated Duncan MacPherson.
Rick DiPietro and Roberto Luongo are the only first-round goalies drafted in Isles history.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
bah
I still say it’s like making the argument that drafting QBs in the first round is a bad move because Brady was drafted in the 6th round.
If you need a goalie, your better off drafting one in the first then spending a whole bunch of late picks. No one is guaranteed to be a superstar, but your most likely better off.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I think this is a really awful idea — especially if you’re talking about a first round pick. That is grounds for termination for a GM in my view.
You can get “good enough” goalies on the FA market or the scrap heap. The Isles have made a career of it, infact. You can’t get top forwards or defenders at anything approaching a reasonable amount (especially if you are the Islanders).
=d
It also depends when in the first round
Drafting one around pick #20 is sometimes a smart move. (If Luongo had been drafted #20 overall his year, would anyone have said, “That was a bad pick”?)
But taking a chance on one at #1 overall when there are a couple elite skaters available— that’s a different story.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
What’s funny about Luongo-he even still seems reasonable at #4 looking back on it now. Really Hossa is the only guy thereafter you could make a case for.
So much of it is dependent on the year that you really can’t say…
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
They also could have had
Eric Staal, Nathan Horton, Thomas Vanek, Ryan Suter, Jeff Carter, Brent Seabrook, Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Corey Perry or Jeff Tambellini and then taken Jimmy Howard in the 2nd round or Jaroslav Halak in the 9th round.
Holy crap, what a freaking draft class.
by Dorfer on Nov 29, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Too bad the Isles didn’t have any picks that year, which is how I recall it anyway.
=d
by AP77 on Nov 29, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They had two 8th rounders.
They picked defenseman Cody Blanshan immediately before Enstrom. And the next defenseman picked (#245) was Byfuglien. Too bad he didn’t last until #246, where the Isles picked Igor Volkov.
On the bright side, the 2008 draft continues to look better, with Martin and Ullstrom each taking big steps early on in this season, and Hamonic avoiding a sophomore slump.
It is not too difficult to expect various levels of improvement from Bailey, Ness, Donovan, Petrov, Poulin, and Dibo over the next couple seasons. (They were also drafted by Isles in 2008.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
It's because
none of them were rushed! (Lockout and all.) ((Only partly facetious.))
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Luongo was the consensus number 4 that year, prior to being drafted
The first 4 were pretty much consensus, in order, Thorton, Marleau, Jokinen, Luongo (which was the Leafs pick along with Kenny Johnson and Isles choice of one of Leafs top prospects [we picked Sean Hagarty, Berad’s Jr. Teammate over Freddie Modin]. Of course, Jokinen was later part of the package for Palffy, and the Isles own pick was 5th overall, where Brewer was sellected.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Nov 29, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Essentially, Milbury went BPA with Luongo
but overdrafted DP @ 1st overall, when Gaborik and Heatly were back and forth, one and two…so Milbury won the lottery that year, and still drafted DP.
The year Isles finished last and would have had Kovy 1st overall but Atlanta won lottery, Milbury got depressed, packaged consensus 2nd overall pick (undrafted yet) Spezza and Chara to Ottawa.
Two events that shaped Milbury’s direction in which he took the team.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Nov 29, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying 1st overall, but a first round pick.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Exactly.
I mean it’s not like a team is going to go all crazy and draft a goalie high and then three years later draft ANOTHER goalie high and give him a 74 year contract or anything like that….
:-)
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Nov 29, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
You can make this argument with any player, Albert Pujols was a 13th round pick and now he’s one of the best players in MLB. For all of the great early draft picks in any sport, you can find great picks that slipped through the cracks and went in the late rounds.
by dunnowhat2type on Nov 29, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone want to give me updates?
I’m going to miss this game ): Going to my school’s basketball game
Nino on the 4th line? Why?
I know we don’t have the luxury of sending him back to juniors now because Comeau’s cap hit is now gone, so unless we add some noticable salary, no chance in hell Nino is sent down. But why in God’s name the 4th line? I know, Stamkos was scratched “2 or 3 times his rookie year”, and Seguin was scratched “6-8 times his rookie year”, but Stamkos still played 15min/gm though and Seguin played 12min/gm on a stanley cup team. Why would we throw Nino on the 4th line, where his 2 tools to create offense with are Matt Martin, who plays a “similar” banging/shooting/front of the net style and is also very young and unproven, and Marty Reasoner, a defensive center with very limited offensive abilities? Not to mention, in a role where he will see 8-11min of icetime per game. What the hell is going on? If you asked me, if I would have rathered Nino sent down playing 15-20min/gm and NOT BEING SCRATCHED, or Nino playing 8-10min/gm on the 4th line in the NHL, I would have shouted “send nino back”. Why why why why why. If he wasn’t ready, why should we use him as a cap mule and on a “basement team of the nhl’s 4th line”?
People’s thoughts on this? We were gonna have a struggling year this year it looks like either way, but if waiving Comeau for nothing costs us playing Nino 10min/gm in the NHL instead of sending him back to play 16-20min/gm, I think Garth is an idiot.
Everyday this looks more like a circus to me.
Let’s go and beat the Sabres tonight though! We really need wins or Cap is gonna be fired before the new year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Is it really that bad?
Nino on the fourth line is a circus? I just don’t get the grave concern at this point, but I’m prone to give it time and see how it goes. Tons of youngsters have been worked in slowly — if they’re not sheltered and treated to purely PP minutes, they’re worked in very carefully, earning their way up. Even those #1s you mentioned didn’t play 12-15 minutes in every game — they played 8 and 9 minutes some games and then, by necessity or groove, got 17-18 in others to lead to that average.
I just honestly don’t get the crisis here. The kid cannot be in the AHL, but is not ready to step into a top-six role yet. He missed several weeks with injury, played a handful of games in the AHL that went okay, and a handful here that were far from lights-out. I think he’s a longer-term project than many people think. Build his game up steadily, rather than through a mass of bad habits — his “pro” body has probably allowed him to get away with a few — then see where you are.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I don't often want teenagers on my NHL team
But when I do, I prefer Sidney Crosby.
It’s obviously up for debate, but I do think Nino is better served by playing Juniors than getting limited action in NHL.
On that I agree
But it’s a moot point.
If he is gonna be in the NHL, though, I’d rather he be worked in slowly, as they seem to be doing now.
Well said Dom
Two most overblown issues by media and fans this year so far:
1.) Nino not playing regularly
2.) The 3 headed goalie monster
Chill out people.
The one most UNDERblown issue:
1.) Mike Mottau
by JPinNYC on Nov 29, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
FTFY
The one most UNDERblown issue that blows the most:
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 29, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Do you understand why those things "are" major issues though?
We are talking about “slowing down” to (as some would argue) “possibly killing” Nino’s development" from “rushing him” and giving him “4th line minutes”. There is a reason you don’t see team’s bringing up top 5 draft picks and playing them on their 4th lines, which most would be capable of doing, as they “progress” to top 9 forwards.
1-It risks their developmental curve
2-It is rushing them in some senses
3-It declines their ice time for in-game development/learning(you know, where they actually put their testing/learning to work to see what does what and what works) from top line in juniors to bottom line in the NHL, an approximately 50%+ increase of ice time in juniors over the NHL.
4-They can longer be sent back to juniors once 10gms is done. There are no “oops” moments here. Nino can’t even be sent to the ahl, where he was worse then Bailey in his little stint there and where he likely belongs.
Nino’s offense is likely NHL worthy right now, but Nino’s all around game isn’t. There is a reason why Cap is scratching him, he’s looking at him as a “vet” nhl player that isn’t cutting it(similar to how Rolston should be seen) and using him as one(scratching and now 4th line). Instead of looking at him as a kid who needs to learn and has a future of getting much better. There is no reason to no play Nino 14min/gm in the NHL. We aren’t making the playoffs this year, Rolston isn’t going to magically turn into a 20goal scorer, Ullstrom is promising, but he isn’t going to put us over the top by giving him an extra 3-4min/gm, Haley is nice to see every once in a while, but likely isn’t an everyday NHLer, etc.
Why cut corners on a player that could learn in that extra ice-time while hurting us a tiny bit vs using players with limited ceilings or soon-retiring players, or even players that shouldn’t have even started on the NHL roster(mottau)? Cap seems to be cutting corners with the players he shouldn’t have and giving the wrong players the benefit of the doubt and extra ice-time(for the most part). Who would you have rather seen waived to the minors, Rolston or Comeau who could have had a future here?
3-headed goalie monster=Given what you’ve seen from Montoya vs DP/Nabokov, if you said Montoya started 8-10 extra games, like he would have if declared the starter out of camp like he should have, we’d have “at least” a few extra points in the standings, most likely ~4-6pts more. That’s reason enough.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Wouldn't this be a reason to play him on the 4th line
Nino’s offense is likely NHL worthy right now, but Nino’s all around game isn’t.
Playing on the 4th line, especially with guys like Reasoner and Martin, will teach him defensive responsibility and playing in the dirty areas, exactly the things Nino needs to improve in his game. While Nino is in teenage purgatory (too young for the A, not complete enough for the NHL, way too good for juniors) I have no problem with him getting 4th line mins and rounding out his game. It’s better than watching with binoculars from the press box. It can only help his game come next year to work on areas he’s lacking in game situations.
Taking applications for a new favorite Islander.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yes and no. Playing him with 2 players that can make up for his defensive adequacies isn't exactly making him learn. To be honest, Nino could forecheck and "Ovy" all day/hover around the blue-line/center ice and try and score while his linemates do the
defensive part. He can “slack” on defense and get away with it given how well Reasoner/Martin have done in a 4th line role this year defensively. And I don’t think 4th line competition is the best for him to learn against, some team’s 4th lines are just all about hitting and defense, very few bring a heavy offensive threat to worry about, especially one to our 4th line.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I don’t think 4th line competition is the best for him to learn against
agreed, but…Capuano has matched his 4th line up defensively against some teams top lines this year. I know it will be harder in a road game to match up, but just bc he’s on the 4th line, especially bc like Keith said, he’s not out their with goonish players, doesn’t mean he’ll automatically be matching up against other 4th lines.
I see your concern, but I personally think it’ll be beneficial at this young age to play a different role and step back from the “bring the man” aspect of junior hockey
Taking applications for a new favorite Islander.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not always - in fact the fourth line's competition as a whole has been enormously crappy.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
I didn't say always
I’m pretty sure I just said HAS. It has depended on the team and who was on the 4th line at the time, obviously. But there were times when Martin-Reasoner-Pandolfo were used against better competition, so its not automatic that a line of Martin-Reasoner-Nino.
Josh Bailey- You have some big skates to fill. Don't let me down.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
would strictly face awful competition. Thats the only thing I was getting at.
Josh Bailey- You have some big skates to fill. Don't let me down.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
If he's floating
he’s going to find his way back to the press box real fast.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Nino
He should be learning offense. Improving his game, yea – that includes getting in a groove and learning how to do what he does best. Perfectly sound Defense and other intangibles should be an afterthought right now.
by Wes Scarborough on Nov 29, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I feel the opposite. I have a feeling his offense will spring from an improved defensive game.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 29, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
I’m not saying to abandon playing defense and be a complete detriment out there. But what I mean is this – he’s young, and he’s gotta keep it simple. Defense is something that comes with time and effort, but it never comes right off the bat, especially to offensive-minded rookies.
by Wes Scarborough on Nov 29, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
You two could go back-and-forth all day on this one.
In fact, I recommend it. Have at it!
(If we can argue all day about goalies, why not about this?)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Keeping it simple is playing to your strengths and working on everything else later.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Well
you’re putting him on a 4th line that is capable of playing 15 minutes and enabling the Isles to roll four. It’s not like he’s going to be out there with Gillies and Haley.
Take away the term “4th line” and he’s on the ice with arguably our best physical forward and Frans Nielsen light (allegedly…still haven’t seen it). He’s with a guy who can watch his rookie back, and a guy who is supposed to be able to cover for his mistakes.
Not concerned at all. Didn’t kill Seguin.
Hoe can you say his offense is likely NHL worthy? Even Bailey’s isn’t and he lit up the AHL. I’d still like Rolston out and Nino on a different line, but this looks safe and I expect there will be some shuffling around.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 29, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Read above reply to chris mc.
And on the offense. Nino’s “flashes” of offense so far in his few games this year hinted to me that he has it. The puckhandling, the shot(s), front of the net work, boards work a little, forechecking a bit, and the passing a bit gave me a hint.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
That one shot
…he fired off of a rush, a high wrist shot from about 50 feet out that troubled the goalie a little— that’s the play that stands most promising in my memory bank. I knew he had a quick wrist shot, but I didn’t know he was dangerous from range. Combine those two gifts and he’s a scoring threat almost anywhere in the zone.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
That shot
and the play where he managed to keep the puck in traffic when he had two (maybe three?) defenders around him as he gained the zone have really stood out.
I also liked that he blocked that shot to end the game, but he didn’t look too comfortable doing it…
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Oh yeah
That one was great too. A big guy with good hands— Isles haven’t really had one of them since Bertuzzi. (Others who didn’t quite pan out: Kvasha, Isbister, Vasicek. Am I forgetting anyone? If Isbister had Kvasha’s talent, Isles would have been all set.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Johanson
was picked higher than Nino and began the season on the fourth line. I’m not sure where he is now.
I understand that the team makes maddening decisions and they have a maddening tendency to act like the Kremlin leaving the rest of us to read tea leaves like which blog post gets retweeted by official team twitter, which player is featured on the splash page of the website, etc. But the Nino handling is not that big of a deal.
Lighthouse Hockey. Where Islanders fans come to panic with punctuation.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Nov 29, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
Garth & Co. could give the KGB tips on keeping secrets and sewing fear.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Nov 29, 2011 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We all see where columbus is/has been the past X-XXyrs.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
My concern is more that, "Nino's corsi is bad, Nino is on the 4th line because he isn't ready for a top 6 role/arguably not a top 9 role", but we have to put him somewhere to get him ice time.
It’s more of a "we can’t send him down now, so we will play him in very limited minutes while we have him. With how Cap has used Nino thus far(small sample), without longterm injuries in the top 9 or Cappy getting off the Rolston train, Nino is likely going to see 8-11min/gm of ice time this whole year. I just don’t see Nino ever getting a lot of ice time under cappy, cappy seems to have guys he likes and have guys he has in his dog house. Nino is not favored right now at all. When Nino was on the 3rd line this year, he has been averaging just under 11min/gm. That’s not right for developping a top 5 pick, rushed or not. If he’s “working him in” sure, but I just don’t see that as the case. Why would you “work Nino in”, but sit him for Pandolfo and Haley for multiple games like Cappy did? That just doesn’t make sense to me at all.
With what I’ve seen, I expect Nino to max out at 12min/gm, most likely playing 11min/gm overall this year under cappy, with possible future scratches coming for him (and Nino already missed ~15gms from scratches and injury already). This is not a great scenario at all for a kid to “prosper” developmentally in. In juniors, he’d be getting top line/17-20mins/gm and “learn” how to succeed without Johansson centering him while continuing to work on other parts/weaknesses of his game(like defense, passing, etc). It just doesn’t make sense to me to keep him up on a shitty team to play him in 4th line minutes while we finish at the bottom of the conference to hinder his development.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
You’re upset because Nino has a low rating in a stat metric you buy into?
Can one be an atheist toward a hockey team? That means I have NO faith anymore.
by Turgeon1992 on Nov 29, 2011 1:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
???? I expected that. Tavares was barely a +corsi player in his rookie year and he is an "elite offensive talent".
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Okay. That’s wonderful. Tavares is playing himself into elite status on par with probably datsyuk. This is based solely on my own observations of Tavares from his draft year until now. I have no stat metric to challenge with, but I fail to understand how a young players random stat metric is cause for concern at the age of 19, his first real chance in the league. What about Fenwick, or +/-, or some other metric that someone else believes to be the best way to measure hockey players?
Can one be an atheist toward a hockey team? That means I have NO faith anymore.
by Turgeon1992 on Nov 29, 2011 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tavares isn't as complete of a player as datsyuk is, likely never will be.
Corsi is supposed to tell you how well a player is playing 2-way hockey relative to his competition. The corsi on nino tells us that he/his-line when he’s on the ice has been giving up more shots on net then their taking. It’s still a small sample, and there could be multiple reasonings for that. But I just don’t like the way Nino is being used. I’m not against using him in the top 9, I’m for it regardless of initial success or failures just to see how he acclimates.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
The biggest thing
that is going to keep Nino off the top 2 lines for the foreseeable future would be adjusting to the speed of the NHL game, and learning to play defense at this level. I think that limited minutes on the fourth line affords him the opportunity to do both.
Whenever he does get top 6 minutes, I’d like him to be in a position to succeed, rather than struggle. Because struggling would lead to calls of BUST real fast.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Well, if he was given top 6 minutes, I could easily see him putting up 15-20goals this year.
Not that everyone looks at corsi, but that would likely tell another story. Point is, why put Nino in a situation where he will likely barely put up 5-7goals in, if that with his time on ice and linemates? How is playing good defense against 4th liners showing him what it takes to be a top 6 nhler? How is giving him minimal minutes the best for his development? He’s best served in juniors if that’s the case, but that isn’t even an option now because comeau’s salary is gone. I really would have liked to see how Nino would have done this year without Johanssen centering him in juniors. It could have been a really nice learning curve for Nino in his all around game, even offensively.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I think his all around game benefits in the long term by making him play defensive minutes.
I was for returning Nino to Portland this year, but that’s out. If he’s going to be here, I think developing his all around game is more important. The reality is the season is over already, so it makes little difference to me if he puts up 15-20 goals or 5-10. I’d like to see him be ready to score without hurting us in our own end next year.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Read Chris Mc reply. Similar response to similar reply.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Because hockey is more than just putting a puck into the net
Point is, why put Nino in a situation where he will likely barely put up 5-7goals in, if that with his time on ice and linemates?
So the kid can learn at the NHL level what it takes to succeed at all facets of the game. If the game was just about offense then Petr Klima would have been in the hall of fame.
How is playing good defense against 4th liners showing him what it takes to be a top 6 nhler? How is giving him minimal minutes the best for his development?
You’re assuming that the 4th line only skates against other fourth lines, and that there is a direct correlation between minutes played and increased development, and I just don’t buy those arguments. First off, if there is a competent fourth line than they aren’t just relegated to playing other team’s goons, they might have to check the #2 line, or be used as a 3rd tier offensive option, Secondly, minimal minutes could be an attempt to increase his conditioning now that the coaching staff feels like he is fully recovered from his groin injury.
For the Islanders...
…in fact, putting a puck into the net has nothing to do with hockey whatsoever.
=d
Given how cap has used the 4th line, Nino could highly likely see very weak competition if he's on it.
More games/toi usually does correlate to quicker development. It’s “one” of the reasons teams leave their drafted players in juniors instead of playing them on their bottom line(s).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
When Nino was on the 3rd line this year, he has been averaging just under 11min/gm. That’s not right for developping a top 5 pick, rushed or not.
Schenn last year in his 8 game stint with the Kings averaged 11 min/gm
Kane averaged 13 min/gm during his rookie season
Seguin averaged 12 min/gm last year
Burmistov averaged 13 min/gm last year
Van Riemsdyke averaged 12 min/gm his rookie season
Couture averaged 10 min/gm his first season
Brandon Sutter 9:50 Min/gm his rookie season
Turris 13 min/gm his rookie season
There’s nothing to say that floating around 11 min/gm average is going to be the end of the road or a horrible thing for Nino. Just like Grabner last year, let him work on the defensive side of his game, and the offense will come.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Nov 29, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Grabner was 24.
Slightly different.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Grabner also had 180 games a piece in the AHL and WHL and 20 in the NHL under his belt before last year. Nino has 120 WHL, 3 AHL and 8 NHL under his belt. That’s a whole lot more games played by Grabner.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Nov 29, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
The point with Grabner is that he still needed to learn our system. He missed camp and was scratched a few times in the first month.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Almost all those players you mentioned either fall into the heavy on depth playoff teams or aren't top 5 picks.
We aren’t talking about a kid who has projected middle 6 upside. This guys is a projected high-end sniper, who some think could be a 35-40goal threat and likely 30goal player repeatedly. This isn’t some B.Sutter or K.Turris. This is a player with projected 1st line sniper-goalscorer/power forward upside who is playing on a basment/basement-ish team and likely has more offensive talent this year then almost/if-not half the roster. He wasn’t signed to be a checking player, so why use him in that role while giving him minimal ice time? It doesn’t make any sense to me. If you are gonna use him like that, we should have sent him back.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Is it really that good?
Only time will tell. But I do see what Dom’s saying.
If Nino is playing 4th line minutes, what I would hope for is that he does get PP minutes with the 1st team.
PAP-JT-Nino
Streit-Hamonic
If we are going to lose, I’d rather lose with the youngsters playing.
Me too. Exactly part of my argument. Cap's cutting corners in the wrong spots.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I can't declare Cappy is doing anything one way or the other
After only three games played, plus a few more in the AHL, several weeks spent on IR, and one week of watching from the pressbox.
“Rushing,” “killing,” “ruining” or “propping just for cap space” — none of these possibilities will become clear to me until we see way more than we’ve seen so far. They don’t even have an artificial reason to return him to juniors yet, and to me that 9th game is the next milepost.
Meanwhile, if you think he might be too big to rely on his size to push around 16-19 year-olds in junior (as I do), you might even argue that because of the AHL prohibition he does need careful hand-holding to see if he can make it work this year in the NHL.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough that it's a bit too early to make judgement.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I'm happy that Nino is brought along slowly
Let’s face it the Josh Bailey Experiement has seen its share of bad habits, uninspired play, AHL boot camps and scratches. To bring Nino along slowly, by praticing daily with a pro club, increasing his conditioning at the NHL level, being integrated into the team and locker room, and understanding the Islanders strategies, is a better move, IMHO, than sending him back to juniors.
The kids already scored 40+ in a WHL season and he can’t go to the one place that he really belongs, the AHL.
What you're saying is the exact reason Nino should be in juniors. If they think top 9 minutes is rushing him, then by all means he should have been sent back to juniors.
You don’t play top 5 draft picks on the 4th line in their 1st nhl season.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
You don’t play top 5 draft picks on the 4th line in their 1st nhl season.
It happens more than you seem to think.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Please give me 5 examples then. Seguin is the only one that jumps off my mind for playing most of the year there.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Joe Thornton, Ryan Johansen, Steve Stamkos, Sean Couturier, Erik Gudbranson
Back in the day (1998) when Thornton was first drafted by the Bruins, he made the club and spent much of his first year on the fourth line, and had a total of 7 points in 55 games played.
Johansen has seen a series of games in the press-box before playing RW and C for Columbus on a few different lines.
Stamkos was heavily criticized for his lack of production during the first half of the season, in which he was limited to less than 10 minutes of ice time some games (largely due to a dispute among the head coach and upper management on how to approach the development of Steven in the NHL).
Couturier is playing on the 4th line in Philly right now, though he is a 8th OV pick.
Gudbranson is a 3rd ov Dman with Florida who is on their third pairing.
by Jones79 on Nov 29, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rebuttal
The following players whose growth was stunted and careers maginalized because they were rushed to the NHL as a teen and then played marginal minutes and/or were scratched on a semi-regular basis:
Colton Gillies, James Sheppard, Gilbert Brule, Alexandre Picard, Benoit Pouliot, Jiri Tlusy, looking ever more likely is Josh Bailey too just to name a few recent examples. More often than not, playing a teenager minimal minutes when they could be getting 25-30 a night in the major juniors or in Europe is just a bad idea and not in the best interest of their long term growth. Sure everyone is calling for Nino to be in the NHL now, but in five years when he’s been Colton Gillies-ed into a 4th liner, everyone will be say “Why did we rush him? Why did we rush him? Horrible management!” For every Jumbo Joe, Stamkos or Lecavalier, there’s a handful of guys who were rushed, wound up playing minimal minutes and had their growth stunted.
Also, I wouldn’t use Couturier and Johansen as exaples yet because we’ve yet to see how they fully develop as players. We’re a third of the way into their rookie season.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Nov 29, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
A couple more recent examples
Mikkel Bodker, Brandon Sutter, Kyle Turris, Sam Ganger… the list goes on.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Nov 29, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
We're comparing a list of special players
With a list of players who didn’t pan out. So the former is necessarily going to outnumber the latter, because most prospects don’t amount to much.
Since we can’t prove anyone was “rushed” and “ruined,” I don’t think much can be said about Nino to this point other than he had the nine last year, went back and did well in Portland, is getting another trial this year delayed by injury (but with the minor bonus of getting him some AHL games), and we’ll see what happens.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Although
really both sides rely on shaky premises. You assume that those players would have succeeded with a different approach. Since none of them have really succeeded at all, they may just not have ever been very good.
Similarly, my assumption assumes that bringing them along slowly will increase their chances for success. I’ll admit this is equally unfounded. The guys who succeed because of this, probably would have under any circumstances, because they are good.
I think there is something to be said for player development, but at the end of the day I think identifying talent and character win the day.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 29, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not going to go through every player on the list that was supposedly ruined
but just taking Colton Gillies. For starters he was a 16th overall pick, far enough into the 50/50 range as to whether he actually would even be an NHL player. And even though he spent a year in the NHl similar to Nino (a year of juniors removed from his draft class), he spent the next two full seasons in the AHL and wasn’t more than an average player.
I find it hard to believe that one year of NHL hockey on the 4th line completely ruined him to the point that he couldn’t even compete in the AHL. I think you’re just looking at a player, much like a few others on your list, that were just overrated as a talent when they were drafted,
Josh Bailey- You have some big skates to fill. Don't let me down.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Every player goes through highs and lows/slumps...
and end up getting thrown around all the lines, especially young’ns. If they don’t perform or aren’t adjusting, then put them on the 3rd/4th line. But why just do it instantly? With the best interests of the players, they should be put in a position they will excel in. Now, with that current line who knows how Nino will react, maybe good, but with 4th line minutes…? ehhh – only first game back for him though, so It’s not really a big deal, yet. I think at some point in the game he should be swapped around a bit though to maybe one of the top lines even if it’s for a little, would be stupid if otherwise IMO.
by Wes Scarborough on Nov 29, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Barry Melrose should not be used as an example of coaching.
What that says about Stamkos’ development? I have no idea.
The only forward on Boston
with less minutes per game than Seguin last year was Thornton.
It looks like his main linemates were: Ryder, Boychuk, Wheeler, Recchi, Kelly, and Thornton. I don’t know Boston’s depth chart well, but I think some of those guys are bottom 6.
And remember, he was left off the playoff roster-he only came on because of injuries.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Boychuk is a defenseman
I believe he led the AHL in points by a defenseman (or perhaps it was goals by a defenseman) by a wide margin 2 or 3 seasons ago, then became a regular with Boston. The guy can hit too.
With the exception of Sean Thornton, all of those forwards can create some offense, so it’s the not equivalent of putting Nino with Pandolfo and Bailey. Ryder is especially capable, when he shows up to play.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
All those players have nice offensive talent/upside(even Kelly isn't heavily limited), while Nino is given almost nothing as NDRE does.
And some of my other replys have more argument on this.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
no its not
I’m saying that Nino has the ability to learn at the NHL level, plus there is something to say about learning in practice, not just during live games. Also, I think you are discounting the groin injury that might have been more serious than you are willing to give credence towards.
Kassian's in the lineup tonight. I always wanted to see him play. Gonna be fun. Too bad we don't have Gillies up, that's a fight I'd like to have seen.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Hoth?
According to the SUNY Buffalo, Buffalo actually gets a bad reputation and Syracuse gets the most snow in New York. I don’t know if that was meant to make people feel more comfortable about going to school there or if it’s true.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here
but Syracuse may get more total snowfall (bc being located near the upper elevations) I believe Buffalo actually gets more days where it snows bc of the Lake Effect. I think they’re just spinning it in their favor.
Taking applications for a new favorite Islander.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Rochester and Syracuse both usually get more snow, and the snow Buffalo does get is more extreme south of the city.
I don’t live there anymore, but the weather is definitely not the reason. I was just there for the holidays and it was in the 60’s.
No one gets more Snow than the Islanders!
see what I did there?
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 29, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He capitolized the "S" in Snow so that it became a reference to our GM - one Garth SNow.
Love it when that English degree comes in handy!
I believe Syracuse's advantage is per capita
The real difference is in volume. In Syracuse it snows a couple of times, and then just stays there all winter. In Buffalo, it doesn’t snow much each day, but just comes down constantly. Or maybe it’s the other way around…
One of my college roommates studied weather, and I think that’s how he explained it to me.
(I actually saw tweets that the Islanders are “ruining” the raw 19-year-old Nino by having the nerve to scratch him for a week. The hyperbole of sports fans knows no limit.)
Incarcerated Bob went on a tangent this morning about this, but his list of ruined draft picks before him were Bertuzzi, McCabe, Bailey, and Bergenheim? That speaks volumes right there to the ludocracy (I made this word up) of the tweets
Taking applications for a new favorite Islander.
Speaking of the Lenio deal
It doesn’t feel like there’s ever been a free agent period with so many questionable deals. The only team that made out was the Caps grabbing Vokoun
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Hard to even say Vokun because he hasn’t really been very good so far (905 SV%; 913 ESSV%).
(or now I’m wondering sarcasm?)
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
yes, but at least it was a 1 year deal. He could probably be shopped at the deadline too
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
matt martin and frans neilsen
should absolutely been swapped in the thread about the first quarter grades. c’mon, martin has been way better than neilsen, who hasnt even been that good.
neilsen is what he is, a 3rd line small foward. people here act like he’s the 2nd comng of steve yzerman. neilsen is a nice kid and an ok player but thats it. why do you think the islanders havent been in a rush toextended him? he’s free after this year and it looks like they arent too worried about resigning him. i consider martin way more part of the core than neilsen.
reasoner playing instead of haley is a joke. especially with kassian playing. so it all falls on martin again. f*cking stupid.
and nino on the 4th line – another joke. this team is moronic
you do realize
you can’t negotiate with upcoming UFAs until January?
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Beep Beep
We don’t negotiate until January…Thank you very much.
You should've seen her face. It was the exact same look my father gave me when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist.
by mikefromVA on Nov 29, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This would be a half-way useable comment...
…in the Q1 grades thread.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 29, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Reasoner playing instead of Haley
The Isles are a better team with Haley in the lineup period. Haley (IMO) should never have been sent to Bridgeport at the start of the season.
The Isles needed a spark last year and Haley (along with Konopka and a few others) provided that in spades in the Pittsburgh game.
After the Bruins and (even more troubling) Penguins debacles recently who has been in the lineup the last 3 games? They may not have been all wins but the effort level has been raised considerably.
Haley reminds me a little bit of Garry Howatt as far as being a sparkplug although he will never score as many goals as Howatt did he is a smaller guy that takes on all comers and that goes a long ways towards what they started to build last year in the Pittsburgh game. Which they have incredibly managed to tear back down partly by reaching into the recycling bin.
Staios I have always liked but he is 38 years old. Pandolfo,Reasoner,Rolston all would have been excellent signings 10 years ago.
Mottau,Eaton and Jurcina are upgrades? Seriously WTF was Garth thinking.
Okay time for my shameless MAB plug.
More About Bergeron (see how I did that) is featured on the Lightning’s main site in a piece called Marc-Andre Bergeron: The perfect shot.
As far as someone suggested earlier about me eating crow at the end of the season after Bergeron’s hot start. Not gonna happen as Dominik can attest to. Even if he happens to fall out of favour between now and the end of the year my belief in him will never waiver and you can take that to the bank.
by Isle Of Weight on Nov 29, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Of course
that MAB story, is entirely about his shot — which no one has ever disputed!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
To prevent from someone taking out JT
When are they going to realize they need to put Martin or Nino on a line with JT? Nino can score, make plays, and bang. He can also protect JT.
Jt-Matty mo-Nino
Okposo/Matt Martin-Frans/Ullstrom-Grabner
Ullstrom/Rolston-Bailey-PA
than
Martin-Reasoner-Haley
something to think about
About that
Nino has not proven that he can do any of those things in the NHL.
JT isn’t a baby. He can take care of himself.
=d
by AP77 on Nov 29, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You're doing a good job collecting rec's from me today
Agree on both points. Nino hasn’t proven he can protect himself in this league, let alone protect our best player. And even if Martin is on the ice, JT is going to get run. So we’re talking about the guy who runs JT getting roughed up on the spot or roughed up the next time Martin takes the ice. Either way the guy is going to get roughed up. So to put a guy who at best right now is a really good 4th line winger in the 1st line just for protection is a waste.
JT’s growing a mean streak with every game he plays. He’ll be fine. People will start to not mess with him as much bc of what JT is going to do in retaliation, not some other player.
Taking applications for a new favorite Islander.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
And to add to that...
…if Martin roughs up the guy the same shift, it is more likely to be called a retaliation penalty.
And (not saying Martin is awful offensively), but if a guy takes a run at JT and PAP (or Moulson) picks up the puck, Isles have a better chance of scoring than if Martin picks up the puck. (For instance.)
But by “take a run at” I mean a legal or borderline hit. Not one that is targeting JT’s head. In that case, I’d want Martin and Haley both on the ice with JT ;-)
I’m playing partially reverse advocate here; I’d like to see Martin get a chance on JT’s wing at some point this season.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to disagree. Would when or IF he shows he can play to that ability…why not try. I still feel Nino is a tad raw for the nhl. And Martin has done nothing but playing with his heart on his sleeve each game. Hes the one making after-game comments.
Him and PA have been two bright spots. Even if Pap isnt putting up the stats. Hes doing other things.
Just like JT…he hasnt put up a goal in a while…but it isnt that he isnt trying.
not putting up the stats?
You realize that PAP’s got 15 points in 21 games and leads the team in assists…
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 29, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OT
Thinking of switching my username to “Passenger AP77” — is that possible?
=d
by AP77 on Nov 29, 2011 2:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This blog is like a country club in here!
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 29, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
how about a Fresca?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Hmmm?
HmmMMM?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
He already scratched himself for one
Foolishly thinking that would spare him the Full Capuano.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Nino v Bailey
Two TOTALLY different situations:
Rushed?
B: Brought to the NHL in his draft year. Missed an opportunity to play a key role in his team’s memorial cup run. Missed opportunity to play in WJC.
N: Got an extra year in Junior. Played in 2 WJC, and impressed in both. Had a memorial cup opportunity, but failed to get past Spokane… Portland will probably not be as good as last year because his linemate (Johansen)is also gone. He might complete a top line withRattie and Bartschi, but he’s been there, done that.
Coaching?
B: Joined a team with a new coach. The previous coach was probably instrumental in pointing him out, as Nolan’s son played on his team in his draft year. Gordon had no connection to Josh, the NHL or anything other than a white board and a whistle.
N: Will be joining a coach with a year of experience (no great shakes there), but has proven that he can win (small sample) in the NHL.
Support?
B: Josh was thrown into a talentless cesspool with two AHL goaltenders, and one guy who had All-star potential.. but was an unknown in his new role as a top pair defenseman. the scoring leaders in Josh’s rookie year were; Mark Streit, ROOKIE Kyle Okposo and Doug “Country Club” Weight. The team leader was Bill Guerin, who for all we know wanted to sit Gordon down and COACH HIM most of that year. That was no environment for a 18 year old kid… with middle first round talent in a forward-shallow draft.
N: The isles have turned the corner in their top 6. They haven’t pulled their tail around it yet, but at least they’ve stuck their head around so they can see what’s coming. This team has a PPG center on the top line, and two young VETERANS of pro-hockey playing with him. Thier second line is comprised of a Calder candidate who is physically mature beyond a college freshman, a possible Selke candidate, and the VETERAN Kyle Okposo.
He’ll also benefit from playing with young NHL caliber players like Bailey, Martin, and hopefully David Ullstrom who has a year of pro hockey under his belt.
GAME?
B: A young playmaker who needed to develop his awareness and ability to create space. Josh was not a big presence, nor was he a physical presence. He needed a lot of veteran support to allow him the ability to do what he did in junior, but was never able to grow those skills at intermediate steps.
N: Is a big, physical forward. He will have to learn how to use those tools at the NHL level, and I don’t expect much from him for a while… but he will have to ability to do exactly what Matt martin did last year… only with more skills and better hands. If he’s not hitting the net he can contribute by hitting the opponent. His skillset might also earn him quick promotions to PP time and a consistent middle six role.
FUTURE?
B: He has another year to come out of his funk. We have seen FOB (Flashes of brilliance) from him, but they are short lived and far between. I have a lot of faith in Josh, but it’s a matter of him finding himself… and that may take the calming of the storm he was dropped into. He should get that if Rolston ever skates a full 15 minutes and they get a consistent RW… LIKE NINO, MARTIN or ULLSTROM.
N: Nino is gonna be put in the incubator. He has 7 years to prove he belongs in the HOF, and 3 or 4 to prove that he wasn’t a wasted top 5 pick. He has been successful at every level with a consistently physical and ENGAGED game… that’s all we need him to be for 8-12 minutes a night.
NOTE: TRIGGERS! The reason Nino has most likely been sat for most of the first 20 is a set of triggers. One may be the triggers for his bonuses, but I don’t think that’s a high priority for a team that needs to build team spirit. I think the most important thing is that they keep his waiver availability through his second and third years. This was something they totally blew with Josh. Nino can go to the AHL next year, and if they pick up a one year salary dump somewhere, IF NEEDED he could go there with some intigral parts of the Islanders’ future… like Petrov, Kabanov, Nelson… maybe even Lee. But these are very young players and it’s about time that the Islanders have some ability to make these decisions… if only they were half as deep on the blueline!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 29, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Poor Bailey
He missed a chance to play in the WJC! Those dastardly Isles robbed him of this, I say! His grief must have been overwhelming . . . while he was playing in the NHL.
:)
=d
Not so bad for him..
personally. I think I’d rather be making the $900K/yr than any of that stuff… but in the sense of managing the asset, they failed to take advantage of a lot of low cost options.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Its ok, help is on the way
Now that Blake Comeau is gone, I’ve annointed Josh Bailey as my new favorite Islander (I love frustrating players). And Blake may have had his head scratchers, but he did manage to increase his point total every year as my favorite player. I’m going to bring the same good karma to Josh…I hope.
Josh Bailey- You have some big skates to fill. Don't let me down.
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I was inspired by your commentary...
the other day about Blake the underachiever. So I’m wearing my half-priced 57 tee shirt today, while I work from home, and avoid managerial conflict that might have risen while I was away last week.
I had about 400 emails waiting for me, so I am giving it my best COZO… I’ve sorted them into their particular streams (entered zone with great expectations) , then prioritized them by sender (surveyed the situation), and just moved them to Outlook folders by project(exited the offensive zone without accomplishing a damn thing).
I did, however do that while sitting in on three conference calls… so it was like finishing a check here and there.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 29, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You need to open one or two of those emails
but don;t reply to any, that would be the equivalent of getting one past the goalie
Fast and furious coverage of the slow and steady rebuild
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, kid, this be Josh!
How’s them world juniors goin? Yeah, you scored a goal? Cool, cool. I didn’t, but I’m makin’ mad money, yo! I’m a millionaire @ 18, son. Enjoy your World Juniors. Maybe I’ll fly first class up there to a watch a game, but probably not. I think I’m busy with my new Rolls, dog. Take that shit out to the beach, pick up some honey’s. You know, you know. Hold up, my boy Garth just rolled up with some bitches and coke. This shit stunts your growth, but you know, it’s all good. A’ite, later, I’m out. 5000 G, 5000. Good luck at them World Juniors. I heard like 12 people are watching that shit. You famous, son!
by Les Beaver on Nov 29, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Straight Outta Brampton!
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 29, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for relevance...
because this is exactly the internal conversation snow had last year when deciding whether or not to keep Kabanov in Uniondale.
to all my homies in the ol’ U-krane,
i gots no team, but the bitches is insane,
they says I suck on that twitter thing,
so i got on facebook and showed my bling,
now I’m playin on da cataractes,
got mad money for big mac attacks,
but i’d rather be where the action is,
Babysittin doug weight’s kids,
I’d have had that job for a year or two,
But he didn’t want his boy to get a snake tattoo,
I don’t care, I can live with that,
My tats are fresh and my wallet’s fat,
I’m still too young to hit the pubs,
So I hope there’s still room at the COUNtRY CLUB!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 29, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
This, seconded.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
:::bowing:::
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
that 2008-2009 Islanders team
was truly not fit for man or beast. Or Bailey.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
I'm sorry, you sneezed at the end of your sentence.
Who did they call up?
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 29, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Which is why they just refer to him as Chewy
Paul Szczechura. Mostly of the Norfolk Admirals. He played 82 with the Lightning a few years back. Undersized but assisted on two of the Caps goals.
and if they have any more injuries
Im going to assume Han Solo is the next in line for a recall?
Fast and furious coverage of the slow and steady rebuild
by Chris McNally on Nov 29, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
And place DiPietro in carbonite for his own protection
Boba Fett: He’s no good to me dead.
Vader: He will not be permanently damaged.
Garth Snow: Yeah, right.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 29, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Szczechura
Grabsundheit!
:D
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bobby Ryan being shopped?
http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2011/11/29/2595863/bobby-ryan-bruins-ducks-krejci
Staois, Mouttau, Reasoner, Pandolfo, and DP for him. That’s FIVE for ONE! You’re not gonna do better than that, Anaheim!
I would love to have him on the Isles. Too bad we have nothing comparable to trade…
Throw in Haley or it's not realistic
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Not sure we want to part with T3H GRIT just yet, but.....
WAIT! That’s not all!
You mean, there’s more????
Act now, and you get 5 aging, awful veterans, one of Moulson’s Hair T-Shirts and a brother in law! All for one low payment of Bobby Ryan! And if you call withing the next 30 minutes, you get T3H UBER-GRIT, MICHEAL HALEY!
True
We’d have to demand they throw in Parros. Then we’d have to include Eaton for realz.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
OT: Deadspin covers the Dale Hunter debacle
I can’t read this at work, but I presume when they say that they…
think it’s worth remembering that he was a goddamn menace on skates…they are talking about one thing.
Success was survival and, kid, it still is
Plenty of things I can recall
It’s just that not all of his douchebaggery happened after the whistle.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Nino Niederreiter = Tim Tebow
Fan favorite, hated by management, and was not supposed to be in the NHL this year. Chosen as a first line player, where he played in the preseason, and now relegated to the scratch house and now 4th line duty. Is he one injury away from going to the first line and through his simple yet effective play, lead the team to wins and cause controversy all over the NHL on why he is here in the first place.
Remarks by the press in Canada, read like this:
“Drafted way too early”
“He is Swiss, not Canadian, should have gone later”
“Once he reaches the NHL, his play will not transfer and he will struggle”
“Cut the Cheese and send him back Portland”
Anyways, having a bit of fun and stretch to make any comparisons, but I just wanted while this Tim Tebow Phenom is taking over the NFL.
by ghalbart on Nov 29, 2011 4:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
At least Nino isn't circumcising African children during the off-season.
by Jones79 on Nov 29, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That you know of. You can’t be in every single African village.
by Philaster on Nov 29, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I've never read a bad thing about Nino...
in the US or Canadian press. Are you going to site your sources?
Tim Tebow is a joke playing on a team that has found it’s defense. two years of sub 50% completion pct, and a passer rating around 80.
Please don’t compare our Swiss Army Knight with tickle me tebow.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
it was jokingly
I said so and said it was a stretch, in now way was I serious.
The only things I was going on was that he was a fan favorite and management “seemed” to not like him, thus the benching. Nothing more, everything else was just to have some fun with the Tebow mania, namely a fan favorite, everyone hating on him (media) and then Skip Bayless, having a love affair with him. Thats all.
No sources, cause its a joke. Ha…Ha….
Not a big deal...
I just needed a vehicle to get “tickle Me tebow” out there.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Montoya tonight, right?
Montoya has started 7 games so far (3-3-1). the Isles have not outshot an opponent with him in the nets, and have been outshot 175-215 in his starts. they have only been outscored in those starts 14-15.
He has only given up more than 2 goals twice, @TB 1-4 and his next start which was a 3-4 OTL where he faced 51 shots. there were 20 days between those two starts and 15 days until his next start.
Al Montoya is clearly the number one goalie of the NY Islanders right now… which can only mean one thing. Rick Dipietro gets to prove that he is still #1.
because it wouldn't be fair otherwise
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
He's only been injured for the past three years.
He deserves more starts to prove that he has it in the NHL.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
He cares about the franchise and has worked so hard to come back
That counts more than results in my book!
I wouldn't be agreeing with you all, expect that
He still has the potential to be a great puckhandling goalie.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
He's gonna be around for a long time...
so we had better find out if he can play for a week without breaking something
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Glad somebody FINALLY brought this up
Nobody ever seems to talk about the goaltending around here.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
JP- I know youre joking around...
Al Montoya is clearly the number one goalie of the NY Islanders right now… which can only mean one thing. Rick Dipietro gets to prove that he is still #1.
But this isnt happening, it hasnt been happening, and joking around and make-pretending it is will just get some of the Isles fans around here who are paying less attention to whether the guy is getting starts all hysterical again.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 29, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
That would make it Isles' 2nd winning streak of the season
…only one win behind their longest streak.
(Isles also had a separate two-game point streak, but neither was a win.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 29, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Dom, are you in the "we dont need Haley" camp???
Nino Niederreiter returns to the lineup to calm fan anxieties and Marty Reasoner returns in favor of Micheal Haley to calm mine.
I am in the "Haley's signifigance is greatly exaggerated at the expense of much more important things" camp
Mostly, that was a jab at people who declare, after two games, that the Islanders are so clearly a better team with Haley in the lineup collecting 7 minutes. I like Haley. I do not view him as essential (and if I were like some of his biggest fans, I would claim that last night’s win proves it beyond a doubt.)
But mostly I was confused by Reasoner’s sustained scratches in favor of dressing only three true centers.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
