Is the Grass Greener?
Editor's Note: FanPost front-paged purely for the first sentence. We're cheap like that. (But seriously: It's a fun discussion topic for tough times.)
Lighthouse Hockey is a great hockey blog. But, as an Islanders-centric site, those of us that frequent it religiously tend to focus on all things blue-and-orange and scrupulously analyze the most minor of minor details as long as it involves our team.
This season hasn't been a good one so far for the Islanders and it's easy to forget that it hasn't been a good one for a few other teams, too. Every team is made up of different players, coaches, circumstances and history. What came before often affects what's happening currently. But bad is bad no matter how you slice it. I've read a few articles about other teams recently that I found very interesting when compared to the Islanders' problems.
Just today, Harrison Mooney at Puck Daddy covered the "Will Jarome Iginla be traded?" question that Flames fans have probably been sick of for years. Calgary's not off to a good start (13th place/West) and their team president ponders if their strong second half last season was a mirage. If they don't straighten themselves out, Iginla could bring some prospects back for the future. That is, if he wants to be traded. He's one of 11 (!) Flames players with either a no trade or no movement clause in his contract. Calgary's also got the 11th highest payroll in the league and moving some of of those guys to make cap room is going to take some cleverness from GM Jay Feaster.
Also struggling this season are the Colorado Avalanche, which writer Adrian Dater calls the first bad team he's ever covered in any sport. Top center Paul Stasny's not scoring consistently, key defenseman Erik Johnson is a -12 and coach (and former Islander) Joe Sacco's position is very much in jeopardy. Two years ago, most of this same Avalanche team made a surprising run to the playoffs. Right now they seem to be hanging on to those memories by their fingernails and wondering where that team went.
Further west are the Anaheim Ducks, who Orange County Register columnist Jeff Miller called "an embarrassment." This is team led by the reigning Hart Trophy winner Corey Perry and a tough, talented captain in Ryan Getzlaf. In 2007, they were young guys on a Stanley Cup champion. Now, they're being asked how they've lost 11 of their last 12 games, many in shocking and ugly ways. Getzlaf, Perry and Bobby Ryan were on the ice for all three third period goals in a loss to the Blackhawks that the Ducks apparently showed up for in name alone.
Finally, the Columbus Blue Jackets have had a nightmare season so far for many already reported reasons. But they're also having some money problems that have nothing to do with Steve Mason's five-hole. The Columbus City Council recently approved a deal in which they will buy Nationwide Arena, which will help keep the team in Columbus. Which is good. But not good enough for some who claim the deal won't stop the team from losing a ton of dough (and not paying their creditors) and may actually scare off any future buyers. Also not paying creditors recently was Devils owner Jeff Vanderbeek. Our division foes could be close to declaring bankruptcy if a new investor isn't found.
I didn't write this to point my finger and let out a Nelson Muntz-style "HA HA!" at other teams. Bossy knows, no Islanders fan in his right mind would (or should) ever ridicule another franchise's struggles. The only thing the Islanders have done consistently since 1985 is struggle. I don't expect this to make anyone feel better or more optimistic about the Islanders' on-and-off ice issues.
But I thought it was important and enlightening to point out that other teams can and do have a lot of the same issues the Islanders do, while at the same time remaining unique to that them. While we fret over one fourth line forward's ice time or the incremental progress of a teenage prospect's development, there are other franchises with other grave problems that affect their long term future, too.
Are these teams better off than the Islanders? Worse? Would they change places with our team in some respects? Would the Islanders love to have some of their problems? Answer to all is: probably.
Submitted FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or SB Nation. If you're reading this statement, you pass the fine print legalese test. Four stars for you.
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I watch the Ducks a lot
I grew to like them last season and loved their series against the Predators in the playoffs. Their play really is shocking this season, they have so much talent and Hiller is back but they just aren’t playing well at all.
Do you think they're just too top-heavy (and Hiller dependent)
and their supporting cast is getting too old?
I was always intrigued by their outshot-but-still-winning-okay routine last year.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The Hockey Prospectus annual report had them as the luckiest team last year
With the first line not performing at a top level and goaltending average they are back to what the team really is. Mediocre to poor.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
Luckiest being winning % in OT & SO
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
Yes partly
Also think they don’t have that good of a D. Can’t rely on Selanne much longer and need more secondary scoring. LAst season was a combination of luck and everyone having monster years (Perry and Visnovsky)
by edavidmorris on Nov 28, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Their D looks like ours
Watched some of their game against the Leafs and they looked like the Isles…lots of back and forth in behind their goal line and unable to breakout of the zone…a bad pass leads to a turnover and a goal.
Speaking on the Leafs, I was looking at their individual stats and their shooting percentages are thru the roof.
by deeco on Nov 28, 2011 10:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Uh oh
on the Leafs, I was looking at their individual stats and their shooting percentages are thru the roof.
Is that the Jaws theme I hear?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
It's impolite but
key defenseman Erik Johnson is a -12
I chuckled anyway.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
i'd still take johnson...
he’d make the blue line look a lot better.
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
I would, but I wouldn't deal Stewart and Shattenkirk for him.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'd take Johnson in ...
a hearbeat. That guy’s a damn good player, regardless of what the sometimes meaningless +/- is.
Just a goalie...
The difference between the ’07 Avs and this year is the “otherworldly” Craig Anderson.
The grass is greener in Edmonton (despite the snow)
The Oilers were seemingly in a very similar situation to us with the rebuild/arena problems. They’ve obviously mad a huge jump this year, which is what many Isles fans thought we were capable of. They’ve also gotten a new arena deal ironed out.
I honestly think I’d be feeling better about this year if Edmonton was suffering with us.
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Khabibulan
can not keep at/above a .930 sv%, and once he goes so does the team
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Nov 27, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why Can't Khabibulin Keep Playing Well?
I don’t know about maintaining that .930 save percentage, but he may be past the back problem (herniated disc surgery 2010) and the DUI situation (maybe he’s fully off the wagon and it was affecting his play). Who knows? The guy has played pretty well in the past.
I think when the dust settles this season...
the Isles and Oil will be very similar in bubble status (8-11 seed). The Isles I expect will play better, JT will continue to grow, KO should remain “back,” Bailey may keep playing well along with some more talent on his line (Nino, please, or PAP if Nino plays on L1), a defenseman will be called up shortly, Toyota looks great…
Sigh…I dunno…but I’m trying to be positive here. Look, the Oil have a ton of speed and loads of forward talent – half of our young forward talent is still in juniors/college/press box lol.
I’m just praying that in 3 weeks or so this awful start will be behind us, as we enjoy watching Nino and Wishart play with speed and zeal, Amac and Streit feeling better and playing better, KO and JT playing with less frustration and more confidence as they look around and DON’T see Mottau and Rolston in the locker room…I have faith.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Hall just got hurt
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 27, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Is it wrong that that makes me happy?
/doesn’t care if it is wrong
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Nah
I bear no ill will toward TH or Edmonton, but I do enjoy seeing similar things happen to other franchises like the Isles have had to go through.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 27, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Depends
I don’t want them to get another freaking #1 or #2 pick.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 27, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To Me the Team Looked the Best They've Looked All Year Against the Devils
The light is finally going on with that trap and the positioning. They’re sealing off the neutral zone, picking off passes and preventing rushes. And they’re finally getting a counter-attack off those changes in possession. Of course half the defense is still bad, Staios backing in on the Larsson goal and Motteau on the giveaway Henrique goal.
Bailey looks as good as he’s ever looked. Now he’s in the right spots on both sides of the puck. Maybe he really was being dragged down by Comeau who was always free-lancing and out of position. The test for the system will be against upcoming teams that are more skilled than the Devils.
by rmblifn on Nov 27, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Its not just a 39 year old Khabi having a resurgent year, we’re talking about a 39 year old having a career year. He’s only been above .920 twice, in his prime for the Coyotes and Lightning.
Also Dubynk isn’t bad and has a .902 SV% right now and is only 3-5. Khabi is at 9-4-2, and I suspect if he gets back down to sub .920 he’ll be lucky to go .500
This isn’t like Rollie who had a short career, Khabi is looking at getting to almost game 800.
Belfour and Joseph have both retired in the last decade after getting over 900 games and both Goalies struggled in their last few seasons to get above .910 SV%
I think around the All-Star break, Khabi will slow down.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Nov 27, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
going there
Maybe he’s finally sober.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
even though he's been their Montoya
Those guys over in Edmonton have been scoring goals. Rookies and sophomores have been taking care of business. I have been envious of them because I thought that was supposed to be us making a real statement about the “rebuild” this year. Seems like they have done something right over there signing the right “veterans” to lead that ship instead of the devils of yesteryear
by Strong Island Thuggery on Nov 27, 2011 11:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Is Cam Barker playing well for them?
And would we have signed him UFA if the Oil passed?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
No, he's been awful.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Ick!
Not having CB makes the Isles a better team…
There is a problem with outliving your enemies, it usually means that you have outlived your friends as well...
Honnor thy father - D. Vader (Robert Asprin, Myth series)
by burpchelischili on Dec 2, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I'd feel better if we had two #1s in a row
The Oilers have a lot of nice pieces, but they’re also off to a nice start with some fantastic goaltending, too. Don’t think it will be seen as quite the same “leap” by the end of the season.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 27, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am jealous of the play right now but that's not just it
they were also the ones who had a terrible arena situation at the same time but they finally have gotten that resolved.
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
Yeah, that makes it quite the bummer
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Columbus is such a “told you so” situation it’s unbelievable. Relying on only Mason instead of having someone who could realistically push him. Banking so much on Carter and Wisniewski, especially Wisniewski.
I still drool about adding Ignilia to this team. He’s one guy I’d give a high pick or a prospect for, if they can get him to stick around for 2 years past his current contract.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I think buying Iginla would be buying high
Feel like that ship has sailed and the price would not be worth it.
(But I also think Columbus is better than they appear; they just royally Mottau’d down on their goaltending.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Isn't Iginla past his prime?
I know a guy who lives over in Calgary that is always telling me how they keep signing guys that are old and looking for third chances because the management believes that they are gonna strike gold with the cast aways
by Strong Island Thuggery on Nov 27, 2011 11:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
four of his last five seasons he’s been a PPG player, getting 86,89,94,98 points with a 69 point season squeezed in there.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I still feel that Iginla would be a difference maker for our team
Maybe not a 85+point player anymore, but his toughness & leadership would make for sweet music on J.T.’s wing and no one would mess with #91 without being called out on the carpet by Jarome. I remember hearing that Messier was past his prime when he got traded from Edmonton, and unfortunately for lovers of the “1940” chant, that was very far from the truth. Iggy would hold everyone on this team accountable and there would be far fewer “passengers” on this team.
"Hating the Rangers since before I was born."
by Carl Rackie on Nov 28, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
whoa
I need more coffee. I read that as 86 million, 899 thousand, 498 points.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Which really made that 69-pt. season a disappointment.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
That's what the Toronto Media is predicting for Phil Kessel this season.
That’s their conservative guess, of course.
In all fairness
I think they predicted those numbers for NEXT season- after the inevitable trade places him on JTs wing!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 28, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
#12
Woudn’t he have to change numbers?
That Bailey kid already has #12 pegged for the rafters!
Maybe there’s a Ray Bourque moment when Josh pulls off his jersey and Streit skates over with a ‘C’.
Nice read, PGI
In 25+ years all the names on the “most troubled franchises” list have shuffled in and out many times except one… We’re like the cliff on that list… when you get past us the next cell in the cartoon is a long whistle wooosh, then the impression of your team’s logo at the bottom of the drop. So sad.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
It's not even 25 years though
The Isles won the division in 1988, and 1993 was a good year… even 2002-2004, the club was reasonably competitive, though it was one-and-done in the playoffs. What colors perceptions is the front-office circus that preceded Wang’s purchase of the club, and the post-lockout rebuild.
I’m not saying 10 last-place finishes in 16 years is a beach holiday, but it’s not a quarter-century of pure futility. As PGI says above, there are a number of similar or worse situations around the league. The Thrashers never won a single playoff game in eleven seasons – and two of their three winning records were of the “NHL .500” variety. Columbus has never won a single playoff game in ten seasons, and have had only one season above .500, even with OTLs. The Panthers have completed 17 seasons with only three postseason appearances, and none since 2000. The Coyotes (and original Jets before them) have not advanced in the playoffs since 1987; their overall franchise playoff record is 32-70.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
One thing I keep reminding my non-hockey fan friends and family, when the question of “why still the Islanders?” comes up is that they were mediocre at the turn of the last decade, but never built on it properly. And that they made the playoffs in 2007 (Answer: "Really? Huh.), but that two big guys walked (Smyth and Blake) and Yashin had to go for baggage reasons.
It’s fun and easy (even for Islanders fans) to say that the team has sucked “forever,” but the fact is it’s really the middle-to-late 90’s that was the worst stretch and that still, thanks to Milbury’s undying stupidity and the current excellence of many of the players he traded, haunts the franchise to this day. It occurred to me (and maybe a topic for another day) that no amount of victories or Stanley Cups will ever erase that era.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
It was not a model franchise...
…even when it was winning cups. But in that period they had a philosophy for their on-ice product that was working, and that is weighted more tha anything else… CHAMPIONSHIPS. After their last championship the same problems existed. So… it wasn’t JUST 25 years, this has been a franchise in turmoil for 40 years.
Just a quick rehash…
1. Only reason isles are even on LI was because the NHL didn’t want the WHA in the NY Metro market. It was more of a defensive move, than the celebration of long Island as a viable hockey market.
2. From day one they were taken advantage of at every turn by their geographically dominant rivals. i don’t think any other franchise has ever had to pay another franchise for the right to operate in a 50 mile radius… the devils didn’t have to pay the islanders, did they?
3. the coliseum was a bad location from the start. there are two main rail lines in Nassau county… so they put the coliseum right between them. PURE GENIUS… well… at least it generated parking revenue. Which eventually was taken by SMG.
4. In order to stay on LI Ownership was forced to hand over millions in revenue every year on a thirty year lease thru SMG… who, as anybody who has been to the coliseum lately can tell, hasn’t done a damn thing to maintain or upgrade the facility beyond what it was legally bound to do (for public safety). That was done while the Islanders were their most successful incarnation.
5. Ownership has ALWAYS SUCKED. They have never had horseballs ownership that would do what a NY franchise should do to DRIVE HISTORY. They have, at times (I think this is one of those times), had management that have worked with frugal owners to build winning teams… but this team has never won due to OWNERSHIP… it wins in spite of it. That is not a indictment of Wang. he may be the best owner they have ever had. But he is not one who has intelligently spent money for solid assets. He has been forced into the bargain basement because of his own bad judgement, and the political sewer in which he swims.
6. Post-torrey management has been nothing short of chaotic. even torrey could do much after the cup years… or even after the draft age was dropped to 18. He, nor any manager was ever given an open checkbook… well… when one was we all saw how that worked out.
That’s not uncommon, especially in hockey… but should be in NY. fans in NY can and will pay more to see a team raised to a NY standard… the Islanders were always run like a Marshall’s… and they wasted the good years, so they are suffering terribly in the lean.
I could go on… but nobody’s going to read this anyway…. I hope I made my point better than my original statement. I am not arguing, as there is no “CORRECt” answer here… I just wanted to explain myself better.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 28, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I read it, and I concur.
It was the fact that the Islanders were a downtrodden mistake of a franchise that made me a fan in the first place.
Devils
They had to compensate the Islanders, Rangers, and Flyers for invading New Jersey, Philly’s more than 50 miles from East Rutherford.
by dunnowhat2type on Nov 28, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
You have numbers?
I have never heard that anywhere but the reference in Wikipedia. I’ve read the contrary in different articles over time. I can’t find anything but the line you cut and paste to support either side.
It is a fact, though, that the Islanders had to pay $4M to the rangers. Which seems rather underhanded, because it was the league that pushed the issue just to keep THEIR territory devoid of competition.
In turn the Islanders get $25M to be on MSG+++++++++ so I guess it all worked out. People sometimes forget that in 1980, LONG ISLAND’S ONLY PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISE was a major reason why people held out their arms and took the heroin cablevision. If you got cable you could watch all of the islander’s home games in your living room… well.. that and HBO… which meant boobies and George Carlin!
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
ref
Wikipedia has a book as the reference for that. Anyone have this?
^ Duhatschek, Eric et al. (2001). Hockey Chronicles. New York City: Checkmark Books. ISBN 0-8160-4697-2.
I managed to find this:
http://49th-parallel.blogspot.com/2009/06/nhl-has-never-collected-relocation-fee.html
The indemnification fee for the Rockies moving to NJ was $35 MM, it’s unclear who it went to, but that’s almost nine times the $4 MM we had to pay to the Rangers.
Also found this from a legitimate news source:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=18c34495-8adc-491e-b73e-e70e1fa02456&k=0
They don’t mention the Flyers in there, but it is a pretty big relocation fee considering 1986.
by dunnowhat2type on Nov 28, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
You got a number...
but I think the key word in either of those articles is “unclear”. But I will take that off my list… the devils paid SOMEBODY $35M to play in the swamp.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I read it, too.
It’s all true, especially the winning in spite of ownership. Combine that with the team pretty much existing just to spite the WHA and you wonder why they haven’t been called the Spite-Landers.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
I read it all
And the way I read it, yeah, they’ve had a lot to overcome, and a lot of turmoil. They succeeded anyway. A lot of other franchises have had much easier times and done bubkes. I won’t dispute the accuracy of your facts, but I still stand by my statement.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 28, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I never said you were wrong...
I think we are talking about two different shades of gray… and that’s why we all soem of us come here. they have had triumphs… they’ve won battles… you can even say that surviving for 40 years was winning the war…. all I’m saying was that during all of that there were very few periods when the Islanders were working positively on and off the ice.
I wonder if there is a way to find out how many years they operated in the red. I’d bet it’s at least 35 of the 40 years… and it won’t change until they have their own TV station (though $25M/yr is pretty lucritive for a team that has us and four people in hicksville watching them), an arena that will sell out at FULL PRICE 30 games a year, corporate sponsorship and a few successful playoff years.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Completely agree
It’s been a long time, but John O Pickett’s parsimonious shadow still looms over this franchise – he’s the guy who signed the crippling 1985 lease where he gave every valuable concession and got nil in return. That forced him to force Torrey into a lot of hardball situations with the players: hence some of the heartbreaking trades and the unceremonious dumping of Bryan Trottier. It was the motivation behind the “our scroeboard will crash to the ice during the national anthem” gambit the team used to try to break the lease. And to top it all off, Pickett’s absentee slumlord act greased the skids for Spano’s snake oil and miracle linament show.
So, yeah, they’ve been in the red for a while despite the Cablevision deal. What’s more, there were some years where the team’s payroll was, by mandate of ownership, less than the TV contract money, in the attempt to turn a profit somehow.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 28, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Nice turns of phrase(s)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Is Spano out yet?
I wonder if he could help the Wilpons…
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 28, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't Spano a golfing buddy of Mario L?
The whiner has screwed us in so many ways.
How I think of it too
I read it, I swear! What I always think is that this club may not be here if not for the Cups, because they were talking about ownership troubles and a mistake of a building even when the team was reeling off NINETEEN SERIES WINS in a row. (All-caps for the joy of shouting it.)
When I think of my conscious self back in those days, never in a million years would I believe we’d be here 25 years later dealing with the same issues. This saga has David Lynch’s name on it somewhere.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 28, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The one thing all the teams on this list have in common,
they can tell their fans, at least we aren’t the Islanders.
Calgary
Another funky (sad) parallel, but with fewer anchor contracts: Team President: Flames Finish Last Year Was Misleading
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I read that Avalanche article last week and had clipped it
I found it amazing how many parallels there were to the Isles, but what’s really interesting to me, is that it seems like in the NHL maybe more than other sports, fans seem to think their team is the “only one” going through all of these things. If anyone hasn’t read the Avs one, it is here, and you should.
It’s like a template…all you have to do is change the player and team names.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
So, thanks for writing this and bringing it to the forefront
some grass is greener, but some is just as shitty as ours!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 27, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
While their grass might not be green
We’re looking at oil-stained construction debris
Lighthouse Hockey. Where Islanders fans come to panic with punctuation.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Nov 28, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
We're talking players. What about players and coach?
bruce boudreau seems to be on his way out. Fire all the Devils and get winners like bruce boudreau and Iginla. That would immediately change the teams identity and we have plenty of cap room. Drastic but maybe we need something drastic right?
Iginla for what?
He wouldn’t be worth trading the assets for. Boudreau wouldn’t be the right move for a coach either, he’s basically the same style as Capuano philosophically (not systemically.)
You wouldn't believe how good the Corsi is for my NHL 12 Be A Pro player.
How high a price could he fetch?
I badly want a tougher coach. Kids need to grow up. They seem to be treated like they’re not professionals.
I think that is the managements fault rather than the coach. But I wish we had a coach with the balls to ignore management and do whats right.
Even the rangers have a tough coach (and I hate them). We have a marshmallow coach. Any ideas for a tough coach who doesnt say “They played hard. We’ll win if we play like that” and then go on huge losing streaks.
The Ted Nolan who didn’t want to coach youngsters, and infamously his two best seasons as an NHL coach were backstopped by great goaltending.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Nov 28, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Islanders had a "great" goaltender?
I must have been sleeping that year.
…and I’m not so sure about the “youngster” thing. I don’t think he’d have refused to coach a team with tavares, but he probably would have fought to get legit veterans while Okposo, Bailey, Nino and strome were developed properly.
He’d have also made sure that there were players on the team that were around when tavares got knocked on his ass as a 19 year old.
But.. maybe we really do have ted Nolan back… maybe even better. He’s trying to make the players we’ve all complained about because they are soft accountable. One had his time run out, and the other appeared to have his best game in two years against the devils.
the only difference between the two was that Nolan was frustrated because of the exodus of 2007. (I still blame that all on the comittee BS)… and probably saw no upside in investing his future in Bruno Gervais, chris campoli, Blake comeau, Jeff tambellini, Kyle Okposo and frans Nielsen. Well… besides frans… is there a whole lot to hang your hat on there.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Web's talking about Nolan in Buffalo with Hasek.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
2 playoff seasons...
1 with the DP Isles…I just assumed.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
I wish your assumption was correct, actually
I never hear “Islanders” and “great goaltender” in the same sentence unless someone’s talking about the Luongo trade.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Nov 28, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Iginla not the man for Isles
He’s about 35 years old. It’s not like the Isles are one Smyth-like player away from competing for the Cup. (Not to say they were 5 years ago either.) The major problem is with the group of defensemen. Bring in another solid defenseman, at least near Hamonic’s level defensively, and then Isles may be able to think about being capable of winning a playoff round, if they can somehow sneak in.
With Okposo, Nielsen, and Grabner each playing better the past few games, the forwards don’t seem to be the biggest problem. As long as Isles keep getting chances, the goals will come. And as Toyota plays more regularly, the defensemen will play more confidently.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 AM EST reply actions
If we could get Iginla as cheaply as we got Smyth?
Oh, hells yes. Enigmatic overdraft, bust, and draft pick? I’d make that trade all day every day. It’d be the equivalent of giving up Bailey, DiBenedetto, and Wishart for Iginla.
The risk is that you give up guys who break out big while Iginla plays indifferently and forces another move, or walks entirely. Calgary, for example, might take Bailey and Wishart, but would insist on a first-rounder instead of DiBo, and would wind up in all likelihood with a top-8 pick rather than the 15th that Edmonton got from the Isles in 2007. That gives the Flames three chances to make good on their end: if Bailey gets his game all together and becomes a good second-line center, if Wishart becomes a reliable defender (even bottom pair), if the pick works out, then long-term they benefit greatly.
(Fun trivia – Nilsson and O’Marra were also taken 15th overall; that’s three 15’s for a 94.)
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Yes, but
…it’s hard to believe another team (contending for the Cup this season) wouldn’t give more for Iginla. If Isles can add a winger for Tavares, that would be great, but a 35-year old would probably not be the best fit, even if we think an upcoming prospect will be a good replacement for Iginla 2-4 seasons from now, when he is likely to retire or become less of a factor.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 28, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think Iginla's reached that Brett Hull stage
where he only goes (if he goes) to a contender. As much as I would love to see him mentoring the Islanders, it’s probably not going to happen. I hope he would win a Cup somewhere.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Problem though
Iginla>Smyth…by a lot.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
all true statements
Another reason I’d be gobsmacked if Snow pulled off a move like that. With Feaster in Calgary, it isn’t happening.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
On the other hand...
If Calgary moves someone to LI, I would prefer Bouwmeester.
Good-bye Columbus?
They are goig to have a municipally owned arena? Yeah, that has worked out here. The first time there’s talk of a budget cut, maintenance funds get slashed. Good luck with that. Want to buy our ice-making equipment?
by Chin Ho on Nov 28, 2011 8:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Forget the ice equipment
Want to buy a long-term goalie, as-is, no warranty express or implied?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
"As long as Isles keep getting chances, the goals will come."
I’m not as certain of this as I was a few weeks ago, and a guy like Iginla might get rejuvenated for a couple of years by a change, and being out there with say …Tavares. Still, I agree the single greatest need is on the backline. At the least, they need 2 big- time guys back there.
Since this isn’t Steinbrenner’s Yankees, Snow can’t simply order up whatever he needs, and he’d have to give up some guys that people might have a problem with, but he does have some good chips to play.
I think the question with any trade ...
for a top shelf guy is whether the owner iswilling to take on a real big contract right now.
If it would make the team an immediate contender
I would say yes.
I think Wang understands that a winning team is more likely to get an arena then the current team. Realistically though adding Ernhoff this offseason wasn’t going to immediately fix things. The other problem is that the Islanders are in desperate straits, meaning that teams are going to try to get as much out of them as possible. I’d rather keep a high pick and a prospect right now.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
"I think Wang understands that a winning team is more ...
likely to get an arena then the current team."
This is another thing I’m not as certain of as I was. It may be passed the point where that matters much now. If an arena does happen, it’ll happen whether they’re winning or not.
However, a winning team definitely brings a better price in a sale.
If he sells the team
he’s never going to make back what he’s already lost. The franchise is already worth less then what he spent on it by about 15 million according to Forbes and he also lost roughly 200 million on it during the 00s.
"Matty Mo thinks it's different. He must be extra high today." BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Moulson's response to Isles black jerseys.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
All true. And I'm not trying to say ...
it means he’s selling. Like everyone else – I don’t know nuthin – but a winning team brings a better price than a losing one, whether he’d make back his dough or not.
a winning team is preferable to own than a losing one- that is the simplest expalantion IMO.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 28, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
"Wang understands"...............
Yes I agree that Wang understands a winning team has a better shot at a new arena but what about the problems in following thru:
1. The county is broke
2. Private finance is difficult in this environment
3. Outside events ie concerts, ice capades etc are not frequent enough and do not sell out
All this and other factors lead to the second side of the problem, money and added talent to make our current young stars before 2015 at least contenders while the next wave of even better prospects make it to the NHL. To date we have added over the hill underproducing rejects to accomplish this either because Snow has used poor judgement in their abilities or Wang could not supply the capital to get 2 or three type impact players to help the rebuild, or they just wouldn’t come to the Island. In either case it becomes a which comes first chicken and egg enigma, except its which comes first a winning team or a new arena? The problem is that time is running out and unless you believe we will be saved by Bkln . [which is too small for NHL standards.
We have many chickens, many eggs
But no skillet, and no blacksmith to make us one.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
A little salt and hot sauce makes it all better
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

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