Lessons: Penguins 5, Islanders 0: Fragile team folds quickly
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 12:10 AM EST
in New York Islanders Game Recaps
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PrintThis attention-grabbing and agonizing effects of the 5-0 loss to the Penguins are already beaten to death, and the headlines will practically write themselves through the league's Crosby party, so we don't need to go into recap mode. But stepping back from the ugly result, it's worth looking at what things changed, what mixes Jack Capuano tried to shake his team out of its funk, and what it might mean for what remains a busy schedule in the days ahead.
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First, lest we be totally thrown by the score, the first period did have positive moments. The top line in particular (almost exclusively, really) created some scoring chances after the Islanders withstood an early blitz with nothing dented but the crossbar behind Anders Nilsson.
The Penguins did benefit from some sketchy early calls, but hockey is a game of attrition and the Penguins built a lead with methodical precision that crushed the remnant Islanders spirit. By the time it was 2-0 at the first intermission things looked bleak, and just six minutes into the next period the game was over.
Rather than wallow in the self-pity -- which is fine, but we've been there -- below are some notes and concerns that reflect what might be next.
Game Highlights
(The real ones this time, not the Benny HIll ones from the +/- thread.)
Notes and Developments
Anders Nilsson's First NHL Start:
He really did impress early, making saves to stave off this game becoming a laugher as early as it could have. The Penguins gave him the rookie treatment by testing him with sharp angle "AHL" shots. His biggest mistakes were when staying too deep in his crease -- including on Sidney Crosby's opening goal, when Nilsson probably was guarding against a deke to the forehand, and also on the early scramble that found him saved by the crossbar.
I noticed in his mop-up debut against the Bruins he overcommitted on two goals. Tonight that wasn't quite the problem. He has several rough edges to smooth out, but you see the potential and, for my money, you also see the ways he could use his size better than fellow towering 2009 pick Mikko Koskinen.
Jack Capuano left him in after it was 3-0 and 4-0 early in the second, and that's just as well. The game was irretrievable, he'd made some big saves, don't have him call home and tell mom and dad he got pulled from his first NHL start.
David Ullstrom's NHL Debut:
Ullström started off on a Class of 2008 line with fellow draft classmates Matt Martin and Josh Bailey. I liked the idea of this line, and they had a couple good shifts where they nibbled at offensive pressure. Ullström had the jump you'd expect of a rookie who waited all last season but never got the call. He had a couple of shots, was credited with four hits and honestly reminded me of Nino Niederreiter's early games this year: Active, spirit willing, but definitely needs tutelage. You'd really like to work him into a team that is functioning instead of desperately struggling though.
I've learned not to read much into NHL debuts, so I won't read much more into this one. But like Nino he is not yet affected by the lethargic funk many of his veteran teammates are in.
Mark Eaton is Injured:
It probably didn't help things to have Eaton go down with an MCL strain that will be evaluated tomorrow. Outside of the goal crease the Islanders have avoided the injury bug this year; hopefully this isn't the start. Unfortunately, I assume this means Mike Mottau returns to the lineup rather than a fun look at someone young from Bridgeport. But we'll see.
Andrew MacDonald-Travis Hamonic Overwhelmed:
I thought Hamonic had a decent game and he was refreshingly the first to put Sidney Crosby on his ass. MacDonald, however, looked slow and off and was horribly victimized by Crosby's speed on the first goal. The two of them drew the Crosby assignment and ended up minus-3.
Capuano Mixes up the D:
While that pair remained the same, Milan Jurcina and Steve Staios switched places, with Jurcina pairing with Mark Streit. The Corsi and other figures -- always a dicey measure in single-game individual samples -- are particularly messy in a blowout. So we'll see how that goes. I like the concept, as I never thought Staios would last in Streit minutes for very long. But Jurcina's value seems to vary by the day. He threw some hits, and missed some others, and his limited mobility was an issue in some offensive point situations, oddly enough.
Wait, Kyle Okposo was Back?
Kyle Okposo returned after three healthy scratches, but you coulda fooled me if you told me otherwise. Very quiet return, and lost several of the physical battles he did get into. Granted, so did almost all of his teammates, but you'd figure the guy coming back from scratch land would at least show more.
Generally, we saw the return of Moulson - Tavares - Parenteau and Grabner - Nielsen - Okposo, but with two forward scratch options it's anyone's guess how the lines look two nights from now.
Bulletin Board Material
- The Islanders have scored 35 goals in 18 games this season. Unbelievable.
- Yes, that makes them the only NHL team below 2.0 goals per game.
- They've been shut out five times, twice by the Penguins.
- Despite all that, their possession figures do not rank them dead last -- with the score tied they're still around 20th in the league (before tonight) and very near Philadelphia. This is just 18 games, mind you, but it's interesting. It's not cause for hope, exactly, but possible cause to think things aren't quite as miserable as they appear. Does their observable weak "battle level" or failure to engage and crash the net explain the difference?
- Good on Matt Martin -- credited with nine hits -- (and Hamonic) for handling the Crosby-gasm and saying they'd hit him like any other player.
- The Islanders have won only two of their last 14 games, with just three OT points mixed in.
- Crosby is such an outstanding player, it's a shame the league and its broadcast partners shove that in your face so much that you start to lose sight of the player in exhaustion over the marketing machine he represents. I tend to tune that stuff out, so I was a little blindsided by all the overkill for what was otherwise going to be an anonymous November game.
- I'll just quote Pierre McGuire, the Cheerleader in Chief, at 3-0: "The Penguins aren't letting up because they have so much respect for Sidney Crosby." Are you kidding me? Or to channel the cantankerous Lebowski: "Are you employed, sir? You don't go around looking for a job talking like that."
Capuano Post-Game
This is not all on Capuano by any means, but you do worry if: 1) He's running out of ideas, and 2) If the players are doing the dreaded "tune out." To me, they're clearly fragile, and so even when they get off to a decent start, they're prone to deflation as things go wrong.
One more alarming thing: Frans Nielsen, normally one of the club's most reliable performers even in trying times, has not looked quite right multiple times this season, including tonight. Not awful by any means, but not up to his standard. When several of your best players aren't looking their selves and it's not because of injuries, you wonder what's going on inside.
To that end, Arthur Staple had a poignant quote from Nielsen in his recap for Newsday:
"We just don't compete hard enough -- that's a basic thing," Frans Nielsen said. "We talk system, blah blah blah, gotta do this, do that, but it comes down to outworking the other team. If you do that, good things will happen. We're losing so many one-on-one battles out there."
Yep. Like words from the prophet himself.
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if this doesnt piss them off, i dont know what will
Crosby, who capped the scoring with a backhander through traffic 2:06 into the third, called it “the easiest game I’ve had to prepare for” and added before he finished his postgame news conference: “It was a memorable night for sure.”
taken from newsday
screw homework, its all about islanders hockey
That sounds out of context.
Did he mean it in regards to the opponent when he said, “The easiest game I’ve had to prepare for?” Or was he referring to a different aspect? (Sounds like someone may have asked the question because of how long it has been since he has had to prepare for an NHL game.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 22, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Probably has to do with him missing the game of hockey in general. As much as I hate the culture around him, I don’t think he’s that big of a dick.
Support Movember: http://mobro.co/YourUncleNops
I think he probably meant
that he didn’t have to work hard to get excited for the game, being it was his first in ten months. We may have problems with him, but he’s a great player and he knows how not to publicly humiliate an opponent, even one that so desperately needs to develop a sense of humiliation.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Nov 22, 2011 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
5 Wins in 18 Games, Only Team in the League Without a Road Win
If the plan is to get another top 5 pick, they’re right on track.
Thank you for calling out AMac
He was beyond awful tonight. I mean — one of the worst games I’ve ever seen played by an “NHL” dman.
=d
How many games of Bruno Gervais did you watch?
And don’t make me bring up Dave Richter.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Almost all of them, sadly
And maybe it is just that memory mercifully fading, but I don’t know that I have ever seen an NHL dman — even Bruno, Reese, Katic, etc — beaten as woefully and pathetically as AMac was on that first goal.
As for the rest of the game, he looks terrible there as well — lethargic, slow, awful decision-making.
Very concerning.
=d
Honestly, he hasn't been that good at all this year
To me he ranks up there among the more disappointing players, on a team that has been disappointing overall. Maybe I expected too much of him after how well he played last year, but I feel like he’s been overmatched more times than I care to remember so far this year.
by SchneiderDiricov on Nov 22, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Which is alarming, to say the least.
It’s looking like all five D-men who finished last year on IR have lost something. That collective net loss is killing us.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 22, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Staying healthy
The Islanders can’t even do that right.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I must note the passing, esp. in last 2 periods
Their passing was quite horrific, like late 90’s horrific. I thought I saw Bryan “Smoke” Smolinski out there…
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I truly believe
It’s because they’re standing still when they make them, recieve them or both.
After the first, nobody was really skating top speed any more. The breakouts were again like 2 mph.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 22, 2011 8:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I dont believe Smoke ever went this long into a season without scoring.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Lol this is true
I didn’t like Smoke. Didn’t like Kaspy leaving either.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
Sad but true.
Sigh.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
You could see the frustration on Cappy’s face. It looked as if he was preparing for the blindfold and cigarette.
"Hating the Rangers since before I was born."
I think he may be tuned out by the clubhouse
I like Cappy, but it might be time for him to go. Although no freakin’ clue who’s available that could do a better job. Where’s Ted Nolan? Is he still around?
by SchneiderDiricov on Nov 22, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Nolan wouldn't want this team, I suspect
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
Nolan left the Amerks after Terry Pegulla bought them
And now he’s the coach of the Latvia national team, whenever it is they play.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
All we have to do
is having a 9 game winning streak like Boston and we will be right there fighting for a playoff spot.
by DavidSweden on Nov 22, 2011 4:05 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Oh.........is that all?
Who in the hell is this team gonna beat ? How about 1 at a time? Philly and the Devs next!
The whole eastern conf has improved!
Let’s not harbor any delusions: this season is finished. Time to pick #1.
2011-2012 is looking like another losing season.
by Turgeon1992 on Nov 22, 2011 4:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Rinse, repeat, trade, move, who knows at this point.
2011-2012 is looking like another losing season.
by Turgeon1992 on Nov 22, 2011 5:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can't wait till we draft Yakupov
And everybody yells about him being undersized.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 22, 2011 8:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would've preferred the return of Bill Cosby as opposed to the return of Sid Crosby.
At least I had dinner plans that kept me from following the game.
I’m generally an optimist when it comes to the Islanders, but it’s frustrating trying to find something that would spark a turnaround right now.
I'm guessing that means you had Jello Pudding Pops for dessert?
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 22, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
.....like a ship full of Popeyes, they are what they are....
…..and we’ve got to acknowledge the reality, not fall prey to any delusion – what beat this team last night, and to a lesser extent Saturday, is SPEED, which inevitably provokes mistakes, penalties and sometimes, injuries by the slower corps – I fear that they played as well as they possibly could given that variable and the talent level, which really wasn’t so terrible. That said, I’m beginning to wonder if the number of those is demonstrably greater than in the past league-wide, and I’m not entirely sure why; seems to me that there was a much smaller index of them that effectively ended careers up until the mid-to-late Nineties…..I highly doubt Streit or worse, MacDonald will ever be the same again by all indications to date…..
The worst part of all this is, the Islanders just DON’T have the luxury of time; with each numbing loss, more and more fans are abandoning them for greater concerns in their lives which are multiplying by the day on Long Island – not only that, but any necessary or recommended moves Wang and/or Snow make will be dismissed or, at the very least, second-guessed…..wish I could be positive, even philosophical this morning, but it really does feel as though our team is not going to be spared its fateful dispatch by the president , commissioner or anyone else…..there are certainly things for which to be grateful: JT, PAP, Grabner, Nielsen/Nilsson, Montoya, Strome, Lee, Kabanov, Nelson…..but can even they, or whoever else comes along next June and the one after, save the day? I’m open to genuine reasons for hope, if anyone else has them…..
In memoriam: Virginia Ariel Cayon 1927-2011 R.I.P. Mom
by ogam5 on Nov 22, 2011 6:21 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
This, sadly.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 22, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
.....one OTHER note: I've been tempted to really excoriate Moulson after Saturday's game.....
…..but something rarely noted of late is, Matty Mo IS the Islanders ‘iron man’; to the best of my knowledge, he hasn’t missed a game due to injury since he first came here – or very, very few, anyhow…..so maybe we shouldn’t be so hard on him or for that matter, Bailey, Okposo and Comeau for not being more aggressive hitters? Is it better to have any or all of them go out with prolonged, possibly debilitating, injuries as well, on a team which is struggling MIGHTILY to ice a competent group of players already? I just don’t know…..
In memoriam: Virginia Ariel Cayon 1927-2011 R.I.P. Mom
Started off bad
when I DVR the game, get back and it was not set properly, it is already 1 – 0 when I actually turn it on. At 3 – 0 I turned it off and did other things. If they are not going to show up to games, what is the point of watching past the first. Hope they figure something out, they look frustrated, lost, slow, and are trending downward. I do not even know what needs to be done to get them to play hard. At least we had compete level last year.
Bylsma pre-game speech
I was stuck with the Pens’ feed, but at least got to see Bylsma’s pretty impressive pre-game speech. Very technical, very calm. Somehow, I wonder the Isles’ room looks the same just prior to the game…
Cap
I don’t think he is the guy for the future of this team. He had a nice run in him last year. Would be nice to have a coach in here that will kick this team’s @$$. Someone that will develop the youngsters and not just bench a guy for the sake of lighting a fire. How about coaching him up and developing him.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
Keenan + DiPietro
Would require an HBO 24/7 series.
by Dorfer on Nov 22, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ewww.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Too late for Hitchock!!!!
We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on Nov 22, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well for starters, the NYI locker room is a closet compared to that
But yeah, that was pretty sweet! (And reminds me of Davis Payne.) Wish we’d see more of that kind of footage, from any club really.
Although it also reminds me that bad teams can easily tune out/stop concentrating under any coach.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m one of those fans that watches till the game is over. When I’m at a game I don’t get out of my seat when there’s 5 minutes left to beat the traffic. But last night I changed the channel not long after the 3rd period started. Its hard to watch a team that just skates around blindly going thru the motions. I’m not the kind of fan who watches all the technical stuff. I just like to see my team go out and play. But even a simpleton like me can see there is no heart out there. This team is so damn fragile right now. I know if they go out and put in a full 60 minute effort they still might not win. But there is no way in hell they’re gonna compete with anyone if they don’t put in a decent effort. Every line, every shift, and every player must step up and set the example for their teammates. I’m so sick of watching a home game and seeing and hearing so many visiting fans. They should not be so comfortable at the Coliseum. Say what you want, but the tools are there for a playoff worthy team. If this is the team Snow wants to develop, then there are no excuses. Never mind the 3 goalie distraction or the “no big name free agents want to sign here”. Go out and friggin play and work hard.
move
This is certainly not a good way to attract free agents or get a new arena built. If you look at most dreadful teams and the way they gain respect, they overpay for one or two free agents in order to get them on their squad. (i.e. Peca and Yashin – granted trades, but we overpaid when we got them here. heck, we’re still paying yashin).
It doesn’t seem like Wang wants to do so. Sure, there is some good young talent on this team, but we need some legitimate skill players to join them. Someone like Richards or a top 2 dman. I’ve been saying this for years. If we can’t pair a legit playmaker (think kovalev in his day, jagr, etc) with tavares, grabner, and moulson, we will NEVER get over the hump. Look no further than the Rags. They have an excellent talent pool of young forwards and defensemen. Their goalie is great too. But I don’t believe they’d be off to the start they are without Gaborik and Richards. They are players that make everyone around them better.
It’s something the Islanders need to do. Either overpay for some success – or move.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
Here's an Option:
Trade the Pick.
Trade your 2012 1st Round Pick. At this rate we’re going to at least get a Top 3 draft choice. I think there are a good number of teams that would like a Top 3 overall pick to either tinker or modify their team if said is getting old and a bit worn. Some new blood would do a team good.
But for the Isles how many top picks can you have? It’s like they’re almost relying on the pick as if to say, ‘Ah well, not going to win again this year…..at least we’ve got that top draft pick to build around.’
At this point I’m inclined to just trade the pick and pick up the D-man and/or a good veteran guy who has an established contract so he can’t go anywhere for the next 3 or 4 years.
No one is signing here except the guys that are holding on by a thin thread to keep playing, and we keep giving them the chance. There will be turnover next year and we’ll be well well WELL under the cap floor to get there.
A 2012 roster with no Staios, PAP, Eaton, Mottau, Nabakov, Pandalfo, Rolston, Jurinca and (dare i say) Comeau plus Witt’s buyout off the books leaves a heck of a lot of room under the Cap Floor. Oh sure they’ll bring some rookies (de Haan, Strome, KK, Casey C) up to offset the cost but again, they’re rookies!! Where are the veteran’s?? They’re not signing here!! We need to get players here that have existing, long-term deals and who won’t be a Muller about it.
I honestly think trading the pick to bring in a veteran player has to be an option for this team.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
great idea
i think that is a fantastic idea actually. unless the pick can be a tavares-type player. sometimes i watch these games and feel bad for the guy because nobody on this team is even close to his skill level.
i just wish they were able to actually build around him.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
.....what's supremely bothersome about trading our 1st rounder is.....
…..we’ve already seen 2 others win the Calder after stepping right in to the NHL (Myers, Skinner) and, arguably, JT was a very viable finalist for it as well – likely Strome will follow suit once out of juniors should our present offensive deficiencies persist…..could the next draft yield us that Calder Trophy winner – and more? All the same, I’m becoming more in favor of trading it too…..
In memoriam: Virginia Ariel Cayon 1927-2011 R.I.P. Mom
odds are...
…if we trade the pick, he will be a unanimous Calder Trophy winner. If we keep him, he will rot in be Kyle Okposo’s 2nd cousin.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
Many Calder candidates are on teams that are already good.
Which allows them to draw easier assignments. Just adding some context there. The fact is that a high pick likely won’t benefit the team immediately. Don’t know if that means we should move the pick, however.
Yet another Moulson brother-in-law.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Nov 22, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Offer Parise
Whatever the hell it takes to get him here. Make him the highest paid player in the league. I do not care. Make this happen.
Parise would come here?
This ain’t NHL 12.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There is no other big star that the Isles would have any chance in hell of getting. Parise is the closest they would have to a chance.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
Or sarcasm?
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Erhoff picked BUFFALO over Long Island
Have you ever been to Buffalo? It’s one of the worst cites in America economically, visually and weather wise.
Buffalo. he picked Buffalo. That should be everything you need to know. Nobody is coming here. Nobody worth a damn anyways.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And THAT'S why...
….you need to trade for a guy with an already established contract.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Well
that’s one way of looking at it. The other way is he chose $40 million over $23 million. Probably has much more to do with that than a city/team.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
If I was being sarcastic, wouldnt I say that they have such a great shot at getting him?
Or what do you define as sarcastic?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know
why you think a star wouldn’t come here or that Parise would be more likely. So I wasn’t sure. Neither of those things seem true to me.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
You think that the Isles can get one of various huge stars to just come sign here? Without seriously overpaying him?
I dont agree.
Parise on the other hand already lives in the tristate area and at least has positive family connections here. I still dont see it happening though or see it as likely in any realistic way.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I think we all agree it is the most plausible of all improbable scenarios.
Of course you try to get Parise, but realistically you know we won’t.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure
we might have to overpay some, but not to a point that would set the team back.
The reality is that every big star is overpaid no matter who signs them. It’s just a matter of whether you want to allocate your funds that way. The Islander don’t seem to want to.
The other reality is we have to overpay someone just to get to the floor. Would you rather it be a star who contributes or Brian Rolston?
The way it looks right now, Parise, Semin and Suter are going to be the big hauls of the coming FA class. I’m not nuts about either forward, but Suter would be a great fit. And this offseason would make a lot more sense to go after a guy hard than any of the previous ones.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Not only the money, but the willingness
The reality is that every big star is overpaid no matter who signs them
Absolutely true, so why would they sign with the Islanders? If you are going to make $6 million a year no matter where you go, then why come here?
Semin may be the only option since there are many contenders that wouldn’t have him because of his preceived lack of passion. Is that what the Islanders need? Rolston at least is gone next year. They did not overpay Rolston, they swapped out contracts for more flexibility next off season.
You sign with the Islanders because they offer you more money than anyone else. I don’t think the Isles have done that. If everyone is offering $6 million, offer 6.5 or 7.
I do consider them overpaying Rolston right now. They didn’t sign him, but they are the one paying his contract, and I think they did it to get over the cap floor more than to have flexibility next year.
Despite his insane talent, I personally think Semin would be a terrible choice for a team already struggling with effort issues. He was a healthy scratch last night for the Caps.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly my point
Semin is the most viable option, because it is the choice no one else would want. I don’t necessarily want him either, but he is an upgrade in talent. I’d prefer Suter as well, but I can see a lot of teams with more money and better records matching whatever the Islanders can offer.
The Islanders have reportedly offered Martin more he said no and signed with the Pens, they offered Erhoff a ridiculous amount he just leveraged it for more. I never once beleived the Kovalchuk stories, but is that what it would have taken? So when it comes to the Island, money isn’t everything.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The only time the Isles were reported to have been the high bidder that I remember was Martin, but even that was a questionable story.
I just don’t buy that players won’t sign here for x reason. I do buy that we don’t offer top dollar.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
They tried this with Ryan Smyth. It didn't work.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And that's why...
….you trade for the guy with an already existing 3 to 4 years left on a deal.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
So trade a potentially no.1 overall for whom?
A second tier player with a longer contract? Who is your trade partner? How many long term deals do not have some sort of NMC?
Off the top of my head:
Ryan Kesler. His no trade takes affect after this season. Makes $5M per year in a cap hit.
I don’t know….just don’t want to think about another #1 overall.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I do.
RNH, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, Kane. If Isles can pick up another player of this caliber (not sure if there is one in this upcoming draft), things could turn around in a hurry.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 22, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I agree but...
as has been evidenced with free agents, no one wants to come to L.I. Whether it be Ryan Smyth, or Christian Erhoff this past summer, no one wants to come here even if we over pay them (as was the case with Smyth). And if we do attempt a trade, were going to have to give up 2-3 players (or a top 3 pick) to get one back.
As much as I liked Cappy last year, I’m thinking that maybe he’s not the right guy, but, again, what do you do at this point? Firing him really isn’t going to help the situation cause who are you going to bring in that can truly make a difference?
Isles rule, rangers suck... that's just how it is.
Right, but..
….if you trade for the guy who already has, say 3 or 4 years left on a deal, then he CAN’T go anywhere.
Like, for (EXTREME) example: Corey Perry is a FA after next season. I wouldn’t trade for him because after 1 season he could bolt. There goes your Top 3 pick for 1 season of Corey Perry.
But getting a guy like, say Eric Staal, a veteran who has an established contract and can’t go anywhere and has salary to eat up to the floor might be the way to go. Now it doesn’t have to be Staal; again, just an example.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
*cough* Kirk Muller *cough*
Now I’m not saying something like that would happen but if you trade someone to a team they don’t want to be on, chances are it’s not going to help. Hardly need any more venom in the dressing room. Of course, the players should fucking grow up and realize they’re making millions playing a game that they love, but not everyone has the same mentality. Would love to see something like that but it may be risky
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by Uncle Zenon on Nov 22, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. Agree.
That’s a risk, but at this point I might be willing to take it.
Another name I’ll throw out there: Ryan Kessler. 27, will make $5 million for the next 3 years against the cap but has a NTC during this coming off -season. Not sure when it kicks in exaactly, but that’s something to ponder.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Why would the Canucks trade Kesler?
They were 1 win away from the Stanley Cup and they are going to createa hole in their second line for a pick even if it could be number 1 overall? Not likely, he is part of the team’s core and they are focused on the Cup, not likely to be traded. They would be looking to acquire depth not give away roster players.
You want to make a deal with them, it is more likely they ask for a Nielsen than a pick. They just picked up Booth as well, for their reclamation project and offensive depth. Last season when Malholtra went down it looked like Konopka would have been a faceoff and pugilistic fit, but that didn’t even go down.
agree too
at this point, may as well let him stay out there and hope for a bottom 3 finish.
who do you think we could get for a top 3 pick? we need a huge splash. with the exception of tavares, there is nobody on this team that can create his own space or scoring chance.
all this being said, i really thought this was the year my team would break out. unfortunately, it looks like we will have to wait yet another year. not that it can’t be turned around, but there has been ZERO evidence this team can go on a sustained winning streak of more than two games….if that.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
Yep
I was in that boat too, I honestly thought (especially after they way the played 2nd half of last season) that we’d be in the middle of the playoff pack. I figured with a healthy Islander lineup, we’d be looking at a 4-6 finish. Man was I wrong. One of the things I said in a post was that we had to avoid the typical Islander slump that has gone on here the last few years. So much for that. lol
As far as what we could get for a top 3, I dunno, not sure who’s a RFA/FA or available via trade. I do have faith in Garth tho should he decide to pull the trigger but this won’t happen until the latter part of the year should this happen at all.
Isles rule, rangers suck... that's just how it is.
We are not tough and we are not fast.
So what are we? We are a team of Mark Eatons.
I have to say this season is starting to hurt more than any in recent memory.
At least in previous seasons most of us expected nothing and we got nothing.
But this season a lot of people had hope for at minimum competitive hockey, many expected more. They look worse than they have almost ever. They are scoring less than 2 goals a game on average, that is worse than the Ted Nolan offense.
Super frustrating, and now we have to face the Flyers again.
by The Danish Backhand of Judgement on Nov 22, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Not we are not tough
But I’m not buying the speed thing, that’s effort. When matt martin looks like the fastest guy out there, that’s not lack of speed.
Many of my friends who watched the isles at the end of last season, commeneted on how fast they looked. Did they get slower over the summer? I don’t think so. This is a lack of effort and I don’t blame tehm entirely. They saw Montoya start the season strong only to be sent to the bench (or press box) for no reason. Nobody will ever tell me that doesn’t have something to do with this whole thing.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Team speed has without a doubt gone down.
At the end of last season the lineup was filled with young AHL guys after all the injuries.
Now we have 3 guys who are 38 yrs old, plus Eaton, Mottau.
Our age average has gone up and our team speed has gone down.
by The Danish Backhand of Judgement on Nov 22, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Yes you're right about that
But we still have most of the first 3 lines intact with the exception of Rolston. They looked plenty fast until they started losing last night, imo. Not as fast as the pens of course, but they don’t have ECHL speed either.
I still say it’s effort, and that makes it worse.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I was gonna say
I think the speed deficiency is glaring and detrimental on the blueline.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Beat me to it...Amen
The blueline is the huge problem this year. No speed skaters….no quick puck movers.
P.S. MacDonald really blows right now.
A lot of players recovering from injury on the D
Unfortunately blowing Crosby last night may have been the only way AMAC was going to slow him down.
Last season I posted that having AMAC play useless games down the stretch when they knew he would need surgery was stupid. In retrospect it was idiotic.
Unfortunately blowing Crosby last night may have been the only way AMAC was going to slow him down.
I just did a double take on that line…
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That sums it up.
This feels worse than last years losing streak because we didn’t expect much.
Just a few things......
This morning here in da burgh, I want to just hide my head in the sand.
It’s like they were mesmorized. They looked so slow and didn’t show much heart. It was very disheartening to me.
They look like they are in slow motion, not using the body, not showing up, something has got to give….what is it that gives?
They need to get hungry…
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
Bummer
I hope you have a lot of sand.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Tell me about it
I think the guys all see I am in such a foul mood to begin with (gearing up for a computer conversation that is NOT going well at all) and this has just pushed me over the top so don’t even bother me.
sigh
Lets Go Islanders…..seriously lets effing go!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
KO should have come out like a man on a mission.
But he didn’t. I did see him battling for position in the paint to get in shooting position a few times…But last nights perfromace was not what this guy is capable of…He was scratched for 3 days…What is going on with this guy? He signed a 5 year contract and this is what he gives the team for his money???I wish our media would ask him why hes not working and skating the way he used too…I would like to hear what he has to say…But Isles fans don’t get that type of coverage…We are the arm pit of the NHL…
by KO21 on Nov 22, 2011 8:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
They should ALL be doing that!
They should be flying off that bench and flying up and down that ice looking for that puck and wanting the puck…..like a dog chasing a ball. Fetch the damn thing.
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
Right now...
…I’m looking for 5 points in the next 3 games. That will only give us 18, but at least it’s a start.
I’ve been holding out hope for the past few weeks, and this is still my team to the end, but if I don’t see at least 5 points in the next 3 games, then this season is officially over in my eyes.
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 8:32 AM EST reply actions
It's over now, boss
And I’m a homer…. or at least I used to be.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
That's look at 2 wins and at least an OTL
Against the Flyers? The Islanders always play like shit against the Flyers…
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
because they...
A) are better than us
B) drafted better than us even tho later than us
C) have size and use it
D) all of the above
E) (write in answer) _________________
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
E) Have more money than us
Seriously, everyone pondering the general state of things and reading eulogies for the rebuild should read this over at Arctic Ice Hockey: http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/11/16/2546292/is-there-a-truly-great-general-manager-in-the-nhl
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Read it: excellent read
It’s too early to judge Snow, but I think what holds Snow back from being considered a “good drafting” GM is that he didn’t start the rebuild with D, and now look what’s happening. Maybe in a month or two de Haan and Ness or Donovan and Wishart make me eat my words, but until then…
How was this supposed to be the “turning the corner” year when Mike Mottau or Steve Staios are on the ice for critical junctures in the game, as well as 2 of your top 3 coming from major surgeries and the other top 3 is 21yo?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I honestly didn't think this would be a full corner turn, at best a full bubble year
But betting on Mottau and friends really diminished the odds, no doubt.
The thing that frightens me with that article is the horribly thin margin for error the Isles have in all this. I assume the thinking is to go shoe-string now and open the budget up when they’re really close and/or have arena certainty, but otherwise they’ll need Penguins-like draft fortune to be more than a Predators East.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Has this happened with the Blues or any other team recently?
Specifically, regression like what we’ve seen in Okposo. How can he still not have a goal? Also, has a team that didn’t have a problem scoring goals 7 months ago suddenly stopped scoring the following season with roughly the SAME forward personnel?
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I don't know
None that I remember. I expected a stall in some areas, but nothing like what we’ve seen with the young non-Tavares forwards.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
There was no way I thought Mottau would be back this season
With all of the injuries and the less than stellar play I thought he was gone. Same thing as Martinek, when he got hurt at the Worlds I knew his Islander career was done. They made the deal for Erhoff’s rights and I thought for sure they were serious about a top four defenseman. Then they let Hillen go and I was even more sure they were bringing someone in. Then they had Staois try out and I was sure that they had him on the roster just to meet the NHL veteran requirement in pre-season games. Then I watched Wishart play a single pre-season game and I saw him get demoted to the AHL. When they signed Staois I realized they may need all three goaltenders this season, because it was going to be a long one.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good."
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Id still prefer not."
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
..and it's right back to the issue of not drafting from the goal out
You have to think Garth is working on a trade that draws from this team’s strength (forward depth) and addresses it’s weakness (defense depth).
WTF is he waiting for? Could there really be nothing on the table out there? Did he really need to “see what he had” to the tune of 5-10-andfucking2 before making changes? (I guess…)
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
I didn't even realize they have only "lost" twice as many games as they have won.
I feel much better now.
Well
The other three are technically losses too, no matter how hard we celebrated.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 22, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Look - noone thought Mottau was going to be great but we thought he would be adequate. Below average? Yes
but adequate. He hasn’t been adequate. He has been awful and in his case its not hyperbole born of frustration. Its really true. He won’t be seeing NHL minutes for much longer if he keeps playing this way. If after 10 more games he’s still playing this badly and hasn’t been demoted I’ll be surprised.
10 more games is more than a little leash, it is enough rope to make a noose.
They cannot go the next 6 weeks with this defensive lineup, so why wait any longer?
I don't care who they'll play
I want 5 points.
Man up and play with some balls for the next 3 games and show me you can get 5 points out there!
by barry_hal_oliver_24 on Nov 22, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
We are DEFINITELY getting those five points!!!!
It might take til new years, but dont worry- its happening.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Good news and bad news
The bad news is the Isles are probably going to go 0-5 in their next 5 games. Brutal upcoming schedule.
Can’t think of any good news. I was hopeful that the games looked horrible because I’ve been watching them in non-HD. But seeing this debacle in HD made it look even worse.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
Cappy looks done in that video
Absolutely done.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 8:49 AM EST reply actions
There really is nothing left to say...
After the last 2 ‘performances’. Absolutely pitiful. I watched the Syracuse Crunch last weekend and they showed more heart and fight than this f’ing team. Just when FIOS announced that they are getting MSG in HD starting mid December, I will choose to watch the Rangers with my son. At least I will see some good hockey and not this ECHL bullshit. Looks like he made the smart move siding with my wife and choosing to root for the Rags. Grabner, Moulson, Rolston, Pandolfo, DiP……I can go on and on. They all, with the exception of JT, look like shit out there. And that includes our esteemed leader and captain.
Dude, i can deal with a lot of shit
But watching the Rags? And CHOOSING to watch them?
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
OVER THE LINE!!!
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Explain further......
My son is a Rags fan and I love the sport of hockey. Played and coached for over 30 years. So yes if they are on and I want to watch a good hockey game, I will. I didn’t say I would root for them.
The Devils?
The Crunch was good. You could watch FHL hockey. The Sound Tigers. the Chl? The Sphl?
hell you could chop your balls off, and that would be better than watching the Rags,
To be honest, the Rags aren’t much better than us without Lundqvist, don’t fool yourself. they have a better coach, goalie and owner, that’s about it. Oh, and Staal. Oh, and they try, my bad.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
HaHa....I needed a laugh this morning. Nice job.
The Crunch game was fun. Passionate play and fanbase. Maybe stream the Sound Tigers starting this week.
I grew up right in the middle of Rochester and Syracuse
I love AHL hockey and love the Amerks. I also have started liking Bridgeport. i should have paid to watch them online instead of getting NHL center ice. I feel like directtv took me on that 180 dollars. Thank God I get the playoffs with that money.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I hear ya...
My brother-in-law works for the Air Force stationed in Rome, NY. That is why we were up there. We try to go to a game each time we visit.
I could not imagine paying $180 to get this aggravated each game. Would kill me. LOL
Is this the late 90s?
Is this the true test on the way to retribution? We all thought last year was the bottom before the climb, but what if we were wrong and this season is the bottom? The late 90’s were absolutely dreadful and unfortunately for various reasons the franchise didn’t stick out its rebuilding plan to see their youths develop together. I am seeing a lot of comments today about dealing some of younger players and picks to get a vet, and really that sounds like the right thing to do. But are we falling off the path when we should walk it just a little farther?
It feels a lot like the late 90's actually
Was at the game on Saturday night, and it reminded me of an Isles/Flyers game I saw in the mid 90’s (1996 maybe?) against the powerhouse Flyers. Soderstrom got torched, and pulled for an early look at the hot prospect Fichaud, who also got torched. Of course the Isles managed to score a couple of goals in getting crushed that night, unlike the last 2.
But had Milbury held on to some of the talent that got drafted in those crappy years, the 2000’s would have looked dramatically different I think.
Dom has brought this up before. At a certain point, you have to decide who are you going to keep because you think they will become the future of this team (ie Tavares, etc.) and who do you cut the cord with? Certain prospects will not pan out the way you want, and you have to decide who you’re going to stick with.
One thing is for sure, I don’t think you can win a Stanley Cup without adding some veteran talent and grit (and no, 40-year-old has been’s don’t count, but they don’t have to be elite either, just good) into the mix with the right kids.
In my view, we won’t see a true turnaround until Garth decides who he will build around, drop the dead weight, and add some legitimate pieces to complement.
by SchneiderDiricov on Nov 22, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Dom has brought this up before. At a certain point, you have to decide who are you going to keep because you think they will become the future of this team (ie Tavares, etc.) and who do you cut the cord with?
This is clearly the question of the season. With Frans’ comments last night about guys not working hard, piled on Cappy’s comments in the same vein, identifying those players and moving on from them seems paramount.
I’m guessing Okposo and Comeau are on the short list, but I’m starting to wonder if Bailey and Moulson are working their way onto it as well…
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
good thing
we gave KO all that money then to lock him up for 4 more years!
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
Regarding turn around
Something that bothers me is how other teams (think Flyers, Rangers, Blackhawks, Bruins, Capitals) seemed to have bottomed out and rebuilt in a fraction of the time while the Islanders continue to struggle. All seemed to have done this with not only youth but the help of good veteran signings.
Are the Islanders really that different from those teams?
Are their young studs better than our young studs?
I know their veterans sure as hell are better than ours.
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 22, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
What is rapid and what is a rebuild?
The Bruins were never this bad only two season of less than 80 points and those were surrounded by 94 and 104 point seasons in the past ten seasons.
The Flyers had one bad season in the last ten years (hardly a rebuild) they are consistently over 90 points a year. So those two teams did not experience any re-build.
Rangers went seven seasons before making the playoffs, but in the last six season they only once dipped below 90 points, so no re-building.
Blackhawsk had only 1 season with over 90 points in ten years before the big leap.
Penguins had four seasons in a row of less than 70 points.
The Capitals had 4 seasons out of 5 where they were out of the playoffs and then committed to a re-build. The point totals of those teams make the Islanders look like world beater. So those “rapid” rebuilds all took at least 4 to 5 seasons. IT only looked faster because we see the results now and we didn’t care that they sucked.
This is the scariest part of the Islanders rebuild becasue we are so invested in prospects that may just not pan out and then we are stuck all over again. However, there are no other options or quick fixes. Wang doesn’t have the money to buy a winner and the team isn’t winning to convince players to come here on the cheap. Bruins, Flyers and Rangers have the money to spend to the cap, Hawks do to. Pens and Caps are examples of smaller markets re-building that are comaprable to the Islanders, but they were near death and only sitting at the bottom for four straight years got them to bounce back.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Bruins were never this bad only two season of less than 80 points and those were surrounded by 94 and 104 point seasons in the past ten seasons.
Very true but the Bruines were mired in mediocrity for eons, despite having one of the best platyers in the world at the time.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Bruins were mediocre, not bottom out and re-built
I was looking at teams that were “re-built” and tried to stay within the past 10 or so years.The Bruins have missed the playoffs only 5 times since expansion. Not really a re-built team, just a team succesful enough to make the playoffs, but not cost the owner too much in salary.
Yep
This is the scariest part of the Islanders rebuild becasue we are so invested in prospects that may just not pan out and then we are stuck all over again. However, there are no other options or quick fixes.
It’s a delicate job, with a lot of limitations in the Isles’ situation, and a lot harder to fix any panic mistakes.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps rebuild wasn't exactly the right word
But turn around surely fits. This team has not had the turn around those teams have had. We had one good year since the ‘92-93 season. That was ’01-02, but the positive vibes from that couldn’t be sustained.
I did notice the other teams period of struggle and I was not overlooking it. I called it rapid earlier because all those teams experienced lows (yes even the mediocre Bruins who continually failed to live up to expectations, their fanbase was quite in turmoil) and have turned them around in a time frame where the Islanders have remained a mostly a doormat.
I agree with you on “the scariest part”. Even allowing for a 4-5 year rebuild timeframe that other teams mentioned went through, the Isles have been in the cellar the last 4 years. Instead of a positive step forward its looking like there has been a regression. Yes we didn’t have Crosby or Ovie fall in our laps, but other teams found ways to bring in impact players to help turn things around and then vault them into elite status. Its very frustrating that the Islanders can only seem to rely on praying their picks turn out.
In the end…I am just mad. I wanted them to show some type of build off of second half last season and its much much worse.
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 22, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
we cannot neglect the Milbury decade, but that isn't part of "this" re-build
We are not starting from the same hole, we dug deeper than almost everyone else and none of them have done it without a new arena either built or agree to in principle. The cupboard was bare and there were no fading star to cash in for picks either. We have had a couple of half-assed re-builds that were never completed.
The Islanders bottom out isn’t as bad as those teams either. I may be jaded, but I didn’t think we were bad enough, just awful. You need to be Edmonton or Tampa bad where you get top 2 picks in succesive years.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You need to be Edmonton or Tampa bad where you get top 2 picks in succesive years.
That is why I am an advocate of tanking and/or going with truly terrible goalies (Isles have historically been good at this). The worst scenario is that you end up like Floria. The Isles have fared better (JT), but not by much. Look at the guys drafted ahead of Okposo (1-5 anyway) vs. KO himself.
=d
by AP77 on Nov 22, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Even a 5 pick takes time
1 and 2 are usually sure fire. Those 5 through 9 picks are more of a gamble. For as bad as the Islanders they are they have not picked often in the top five since the latest “re-build”.
You need to be Edmonton or Tampa bad where you get top 2 picks in succesive years.
That is why I am an advocate of tanking and/or going with truly terrible goalies (Isles have historically been good at this). The worst scenario is that you end up like Floria. The Isles have fared better (JT), but not by much. Look at the guys drafted ahead of Okposo (1-5 anyway) vs. KO himself.
=d
Heartbroken.
We all freaking love this team, we’ve watched them grow, and they seem to be something completely different then what we thought.
What if they just aren’t what we thought they were? The only two guys on this team who have made positive strides have been JT and Matt Martin…..what if KO isn’t for real? What if Bailey, Comeau, Franz, Grabs, Moulson, etc. are just average at best? That’s the best way to F up a rebuilding project…..rebuild with pieces that end up being worse then you thought they were.
What if our coach isn’t……any good? I wouldn’t have thought that….
It just kills me. Failed vote on the new arena…..horrible start to the season…..just can’t catch a break. Sorry, guys, I’m venting. But it kills me to watch these games. On a night where I’m actually off from work last night, I turned it off after the second. I never do that.
I’m going to the game Wed and Fri this week……PLEASE win one….
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Nov 22, 2011 8:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Charles, I hope you have my luck
They haven’t tried hard very much this year, but I thought I got top notch effort against the rags and habs, and even a win over the habs. It made the trip worth it.
I’m worried now that the bottom may not fall out though.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks
It just kills me…..my Jets lose, and I practically say “good”…..as they are a bunch of trash talking, loud mouth, prediction making babies half the time anyway. I can see why so many people hate the Jets, and although I will always be a fan, I understand it when people are happy they lose.
The Mets are run by cheap and dishonest people, they are expected to be sh***y for at least 3 or 4 more years.
But our Islanders….I like Garth and Charles, I like the players, Moulson and Grabner and KO and JT who decided to sign with the team and stick it out on the Island….this is the team I want to win the most because they all seem to be good “guys”….
Ahh the perils of being a fan and loving a team.
Anyways, enough whining….Lets go Islanders. Please, lets go….lol
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Nov 22, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Im an Isles, Giants, and Yanks fan...
I care more about the Isles than any of the others…Why is that???I guess its because I’m starved for good times and to hold my head high as an Isles fan for once…Im 37 yrs old and never witnessed the good times. I just missed it. I said this in another post that Id trade 5 Yanks championships for just 1 Isles Stanley Cup…It would be so much more gratifying… Unfortunately all that’s happened is heart break…I sometimes wish the Steinbrenners would buy this team out and make them a winner at all costs, pipe dream, I know….This team does not try to win at all costs…Its sad
And the similarities continue
At least we have the Giants and the Yanks, but I agree. 5 Yankee WS Championships would be worth one modern era Islanders Stanley Cup.
by GreekIsles83 on Nov 22, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Nov 22, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
The train is off the tracks.
The rebuild is derailed. As I wrote before but posted on the wrong thread (again), what we have here is half a rebuild, and it’s pretty clear that draft picks that don’t pan out 75 percent of the time (or more) and other teams’ castoffs who may be good guys but don’t help you win do not comprise a blueprint that works.
I don’t know if the owner and GM really intended to or thought they could build a contender this way, if the latter, they were even more naïve than me. But it’s clear now that the holding pattern this team’s been in for 150 years – the one that’s kept free agents away because the owner understandably won’t drastically overpay for top shelf talent that won’t come here otherwise, and the one that’s kept the GM from taking on big contract talent via trades by cashing in the only CERTAIN value of prospects and draft picks – is gonna keep the lid on this franchise until its future is determined, ie. arena/relocation.
The other half of the rebuilding plan is tied up in that holding pattern, and we’re stuck with this drek until a positive future is secured or the team is gone.
I can't say ...
I feel sad for him, but I wonder if his agent got any kind of escape mechanism in his contract. Are those even allowed for his tenure?
No escape clauses
Just tacit understandings. Honestly, I figure no one signs this past summer without some sort of understanding of whatever building/arena framework Wang has in mind.
Maybe one advantage (for the player) to everyone’s lower cap hit is that they are moveable if things really go south. But I can’t picture anyone signing like they did without at least getting an idea where Wang sees the team in 2015.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Why? He's only dealt with it for 3 seasons and can always be traded or sign elsewhere.
We’ve made the choice to be loyal fans and there is no going back on that commitment. I’ve followed the Islanders for nearly 2 JT lifetimes, he hasn’t had the hope burned out of him.
Upcoming schedule
We are currently 5-10-3. Check out the next 11 games……
New Jersey x 2
Chicago x 2
Dallas x 2
Philadelphia
Buffalo
Tampa
Pittsburgh
Montreal
Can anyone else see us ending up 5-21-3 at the end of this stretch? JT might want to start making his trade demands now. LOL
I see them winning four and points in at least six.
At least that is what I got from asking my magic eight ball. I asked it every single possible combination of wins/losses and this was the one scenario that received the most positive response.
I asked my 8 ball a question. I asked him if we will suck FOREVA!!
The reply?
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Nov 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think the Devils are beatable, and so is Montreal
Things get dicy with the rest of them, though.
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
The Devils are NOT beatable right now!
The Devils DO give a shit right now. They work hard, forecheck well, preassure the opponenets in their end, and ususally put in a solid 60 minute effort. We are not getting any of this from our Isles right now.
We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!
by Russel Ginart on Nov 22, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
i'll be at the Dev/Isles game
this weekend, anyone else going? be good to meet some of the regulars if they want to say hi over a beer at one of the intermissions
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
Going to the Devs game on friday
with about 20 relatives. I will be the guy with the paper bag over his head.
This will be my 7 yr old sons first Isles game. I did not even tell him the Pens game was on the other night, in retrospect the right call.
See, here's the (incredibly stupid) thing
I still think the Islanders can still beat nine of those 11 (Philly and Pittsburgh…yeah, no). Maybe not twice, maybe not in regulation, but draw some points and at least, for a little while, pretend they’re a National Hockey League team. It’s just gonna take more effort, like the kind they showed against the Rangers and Habs.
In other news, I continue to torture myself with hope like this.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
That's where hockey screws you
They will have a win streak of some sort. They will have a goal explosion erupt where everything goes in and People We Expect To Score will score, and players finish their checks and routes, and the other team looks awful, and that hope will find a piece of soil to latch on to, when really it’s all just part of the torture.
I know this all too well. It’s like the Blues: Oh yeah, they were playing well before and after the coaching change. Hitchcock has them in fine form. Their rebuild is further along (they were in the dregs while Ryan Smyth was an Islander). But I know better. A star will get injured, the goalies will go back to being horrible, or the NHL will give one of their stars to New Jersey because that’s what they do, and that star will win three boring Cups in Jersey and I’ll still be sitting here taking it in the gut from not one but two teams.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Scott Stevens
Could have been Cujo and Brind’amour.
The Blues did many stupid things
But they were also made an example of for thinking that free agency met free agency. Lou was pretty brilliant with how he handled it, but nobody else got plundered in compensation the way they did.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
We needed to rack up points in October
Against CO, FLA, WPG, etc.when we had lots of rest and were healthy. No one expected us to dominate the top teams in the conference.
Lighthouse Hockey. Where Islanders fans come to panic with punctuation.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Nov 22, 2011 10:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Very true
For once, that early season schedule looked to be in the Islanders favor. And they threw it away.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
I didn't watch this game
so at least I know I’m not a jinx.
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
The pattern this year
Last night was like most games this year. Pitt was not overly physical- they took the body about as much as the Islanders did. Which was not much.
They were more than happy to let skill decide the game, and the outcome was predictable.
Notice how since last years 9-3 drubbing, Pitt does not play the physical game against the Islanders anymore?
Why wake up the other team when they are sleepwalking. And unfortunately, we are more than happy to reciprocate, and continue sleepwalking.
Staple apparently ripped off LHH's Washington Generals joke and put it in Newsday.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
Nah, I think it's a pretty obvious reference for anyone
I think there were even Washington Generals jokes before the puck dropped.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You are gracious about it
But Staple is not much for humor, and you guys put that joke right in one of the titles that everyone sees, even if they dont read the article- so Im not as gracious as you are.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody reads this site. ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
The Generals comparisons
Go back to at least the Milbury years, only because I don’t think the Globetrotters played the Generals in the early 70’s (they were probably called something else).
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
It was brought up because of the specific situation last night.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Garth/Cap strategy session
at start of season Garth/Cap strategy session – “second half of last year we were successful with youth and toughness, this year let’s go with a new strategy of acquiring and building with worn out veterans that have been dropped by their current teams. It’s gotta be a sure fire success!!”
Another coach will be gone, but honestly Garth should be the one in trouble
Can we get an assistant GM in here. Please!!!!
I think we all WANT Garth to be in trouble
but I just don’t see it happening. If Milbury managed to hold on to his job for years under Wang, and it seems like Garth has more of Wang’s trust that Milbury ever did, then he’ll last a little while longer.
Cap is going to get fired, and it fucking sucks because I really like the guy. He managed to make the team wake up and win some games last year. This year, it’s a completely different story.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Shudder
The Milbury coaching carousel . . . while Milbury himself apparently had life tenure . . . ugh.
I’ve long been on record saying that a lot of folks seem to be giving Snow too much credit. I haven’t been particularly impressed with much of what he’s done. He had a few draft wins — AMac, maybe Kabanov — but nothing spectacular. Plus he’s had the “luxury” of high draft picks to work with.
I don’t know . . . there are disadvantages to being the Islanders. Maybe nobody would do a better job. But I’ve never really been sold on Snow.
=d
For me
the black mark on Snow is he’s Wang’s guy. Anytime someone is Wang’s guy I think it goes miserably.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
For me
the black mark on Capuano is he’s Snow’s guy. Anytime someone is Snow’s guy I think it goes miserably.
More importantly, this organization always goes in-house and this may lead to in-breeding. They don’t like to be cha;;enged by new ideas or approaches.
I think that's the bigger issue
Snow’s been far from perfect but he’s done enough smart things under the circumstances (and of course I define this by: Would I have done the same?) but everybody learns and benefits from additional voices. Do the Isles have too many inside voices?
And which good ones would want to join, given the external perception and uncertainty? I fear if he went for an experienced adviser/assistant the only ones applying would be Don Waddell and Neil Smith. Well, okay maybe not Smith.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Yea
this is true. Unfortunately, I don’t think it changes so long as Wang is involved. And if Wang’s not involved, well they might not be the Islanders anymore.
So basically we’re effed.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
I think it still takes some skill to draft well.
Look at how many terrible drafting decisions Milbury made. Outside of some waiver wire pick-ups and signing Mark Streit, Garth’s other moves have been extremely questionable.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Right. And you can’t really give him much credit for the waiver wire pickups . . . because the Isles are perennially so bad that they get first or close-to-first dibs. It’s basically a no-brainer to pick up Grabner, for instance.
=d
exactly
He picks up waver wire players because he can. He has nothing to lose and if they pan out hes called genius.
In fairness, what waiver players has he let pass by that have played well?
Grabner’s results were a no brainer, but he wasn’t well regarded by at least one GM.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we all WANT Garth to be in trouble
I for one do not “WANT” Snow to be in trouble.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Prior to this season, I was completely on board with Garth's plan for this rebuild
but this latest group of veterans has me completely confounded with his strategy. His inability to acquire any veterans that leave a positive impact on this team is frustrating to watch. The fact that a player like Steve Staois, training camp invitee, managed to snag a role on the top defensive pairing, is a sign of the Islanders’ problems with this rebuild.
On some level, the GM needs to be responsible for the team he put together. I don’t blame Garth for the poor play of the usual suspects (Comeau, Bailey, Okposo) or the misuse of veterans signed (Reasoner), but overestimating the depth of the defense squarely falls on his shoulders.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The idea was that they are short-term stopgaps so that the Isles kids can move in when they are ready. I get that, I even agree with that. Like Ive said Im not happy with the Isles right now, but I am most unhappy with the kids who are supposed to be carrying this team.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there wasn't much out there in UFA land this past summer
Perhaps his worst fault was letting Hillen walk…. But I think Wishart let the Isles down with an awful preseason performance. Unless there is something more to Wishart’s awful play, I put a lot of blame of Isles’ defensive woes on Wishart for not coming ready to play. Even without improving from last season, he would have been a good 3rd pairing partner for Eaton, at the very least.
So the combination of Hillen being allowed to leave, Wishart playing awful, Jurcina playing below his ability, and Katic being injured really hurt the Isles’ defense. I think these four things (combined) hurts worse than Streit and AMac not playing as well as some of us have hoped. (Although Streit’s been pretty good considering the extent of his injury.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 23, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think the Isles are definitely missing Hillen and Martinek level defense.
And I agree with you that its the combination you mention that is causing the problem on D. Id add to the combo the fact that nearly all the Isles D was out for significant time on IR last season.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 23, 2011 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
Those stopgaps aren't working though
Not that I expected the stopgaps to lead the Islanders to the Stanley Cup, mind you, but since a lot of the Isles’ prospects are several years away, this is where Garth’s inability to find quality veteran defensemen has hindered the team’s progress, and it’s what makes getting to the root of the Isles’ problem so frustrating this season. Is the offense bad because the defense is bad? Can the Islanders not establish a forecheck because Mike Mottau and Steve Staois don’t know how to send up an outlet pass? I’m not saying I have the answers (TRADE FOR KOMISAREK!!!!111) but this is three years in a row that the Islanders have had an absolutely porous defense. I still find it astonishing that the D is worse this year than the injury-plagued blueline from last year.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 23, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Nope, they arent.
Which really sucks. But I still get the whole stopgap idea, and Im glad that the Isles are not tied to Dmen they will not want to be tied to in the future.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 23, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
and I understand the frustrations of there not being enough top 4 D available in free agency or via trade. If they signed Ehrhoff over the summer, there would be no discussion about the shittiness of the D. It’s hard out there for an Islanders fan.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 23, 2011 7:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amazing, isn't it?
Lets take the goaltender we rode during a hot streak, and relegate him to third string. Then lets jettison the tough approach we took that not only showed positive results during games, but also fan buzz among the faithful.
And then lets watch the soft, out worked, and almost fan-ignored team we’ve become.
Management at its best- not any way to run a business.
Lets take the goaltender we rode during a hot streak, and relegate him to third string.
Thats not what happened. Have you not been reading about all of this? Montoya was injured, placed on retroactive IR, and thats why Nabokov was getting all those starts.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 22, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Monty was fine after his 1st 4 games...
In fact maybe if he was in game shape, playing everyday, he wouldn’t have hurt himself…Maybe he would’ve been looser…I’m just speculating…But the fact of the matter is JackandAce is not making stuff up….
Sorry but youre both wrong on this.
Montoya was not “relegated to third string” at all this season. To say he was makes no sense. The only one who had more work than him was Nabokov- and not by much- and thats because he HAD to play if Garth was going to trade him. And then Nabokov got more starts because Montoya was hurt. That is not “third string” by ANY reasonable definition. So unless you want to throw facts like that out the window for some reason and make-pretend he was “relegated to third string” anyway, I will repeat that is not what happened. Because it isnt..
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 23, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, he was a 1/3 of a string, lol
He was not the starter…Far from it…So that’s all I’m talking about…We need a goalie who can be relied upon everyday with a guy to back th #1 up…This splitting the job 33/33/33 is reGoddamndiculous!
Call me crazy, but I have a question about the lineup
We have had a 3-headed monster in goal all season. Two of the three get hurt and the third makes a boneheaded series of plays to help lose a game that was almost lost at the outset. The slowestt of the three heads gets pulled as punishment.
So after relieving the third string a third in, Capuano then brings in the fourth string to start the next game. Now I know there is a lot of DiPi hate and he probably should be taught not to throw pucks up the middle, but is now the time to send that message? Here’s your opportunity to ride him until he either breaks or succeeds and then be done with him either way and instead you experiment with your fourth stringer who doesn’t need the work. why not ride a healthy DiPi? If he is terrible you can waive him, if he gets into a groove you finally had your chance to get a goaltender going without sacrificing time Toyota and Nabby could have played. This isn’t about eins and losses, it is about the future of the franchise.
You almost had to pity Nilsson since he was being sacrificed to the Pens last night. I said it before, the Penguins had a choice of which team to start Sidney against and they picked the softest spot in the schedule. The big, mean scary Islanders that had Mario in tears and this it the team they chose to disgrace on national television. Is this the game you give your rookie his first NHL start?
The Islanders are playing four games this week
Knowing DP’s health, no matter what you can’t rely on him for four games in one week. Would you rather start Nilsson against the brutal, physical Flyers? He was pretty much fucked this week. This, unfortunately, was a really bad time for Toyota and Nabby to go down. If DP didn’t play like a fucking idiot on Saturday night, I assume he would’ve started against Pittsburgh. Cappy never really had an option – even if you sit DP, he doesn’t get the fucking message.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
He already had 2/3s of the last game off, why rest him to start the week?
He should be able to play three of four at least and give Nilsson the clean-up duty.
Because he's not a regular goalie.
He’s Rick fucking DiPietro. You can’t rely on him to be a regular goalie and take the brunt of the starts. He needs to split time because you need to be cautious with his starts.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
On the bright side, if this goalie thing does pan out, RDP has a promising future ahead as the next GM of the New York (?) Islanders.
=d
by AP77 on Nov 22, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Supposed to say
Rec’d like that joke by your typo.
Now two wrecked jokes. Literally everything has gone to shit. And the haven’t beaten in 17 years Flyers up next.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 22, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is so meta
I feel like I need to typo tihs very rec.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rce'd
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Nov 22, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thakns!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Isles also seem petrified when RDP or Nilsson is in net
No confidence in RDP to make the routine saves, and understand Nilsson is a rookie and try to protect him. The result is tentative collapsing D hockey. Thanks for sitting Montoya early!!! At least this lineup felt from last year that he could get it done.
If the Islanders are using the goaltenders as an excuse, they are shit out of luck.
RDP has more points than Bailey and Comeau. If that is there excuse for being flat than there really is no hope for them. With Nabokov in net the defense has played with the puck like it is a hand grenade and been scored on within the first five minutes on a regular basis. The only thing they should be doing is looking in the mirror.
I think they have been shutout with four different goaltenders in net this season, so the lack of offense is all on the skaters.
Regarding the rebuild, I saw similar attempts the past few years in Atlanta (full disclosure – I was a STH for the thrashers the last three seasons before going back to my family roots on LI this year). It is an ugly cycle to say the least.
My brother and I will be going to the game on 12/10 against the Pens (we really don’t like the Pens fairweather fans and they started taking over games at Philips during the post lockout years) and hope to see the Isles show some heart out there. To make matters potentially worse we’ll be taking my 10 year old cousin to his first hockey game that night as well. If there is another lackluster performance like last night (it reminded me of too many Thrashers games) I won’t even be that mad, just sad.
Side note – I’ve been checking out this site all season but finally felt compelled to comment after last night’s game. And to all those who claim LI isn’t a hockey market I’ll just reference this site (and the others like it) to prove that the NYI fanbase is just waiting to explode if given a reason.
by View From 318 on Nov 22, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hey, thanks for joining!
Welcome aboard.
Any other misery or notes you want to share from experiencing the Thrashers from the STH perspective? Things that are done right/wrong or differently even from the fan communication perspective? I know the markets are night and day different, but …
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Misery = Being a Thrashers, Ole Miss, Everton, Braves, NYJ, and now Islanders fan (not a good year for any of them to say the least)
As far as any experiences with the fools that ran hockey in Atlanta into the ground- The way STH were treated was terrible. When asking about raised ticket prices in ‘07-’08 (while the team stunk and the economy was starting to go down) and being told by one of the main owners (Bruce Levenson) to “deal with it” started the rapid disintegration of the core fanbase IMO. While the fan base was never big due to many reasons, we were dedicated and were treated as the bastard child by the Atlanta Spirit Group. They never wanted to buy the team (a package deal to get the Hawks and the arena) in the first place and admitted to not knowing/caring about hockey (why else keep Don Waddell employed for the duration of the franchise’s existence despite the on-ice results?).
And then last year they quietly manipulated the arena sponsorship contract so that anyone who wanted to move the Thrashers didn’t have to pay a penalty. That coupled with the fact that the owners never had full title on the team due to their own lawsuits with other former co-owners until 12/23/2010 and therefore couldn’t legally try to sell the team until that date, even though every article you read says they were trying to sell the team for years. And since they bought the team during the NHL lockout and were in legal disputes almost right away they really only “legally owned” the Thrashers for the ‘05-’06 season and the five months between 12/23/2010 and 5/31/2011 when they were sold to WPG.
I had several ticket reps for the three full seasons I had tickets and the two previous seasons when I had half season tickets and not once did they ever introduce themselves to me during a game, even though they certainly could find me in a mostly empty arena many nights. I’ve gotten more calls/emails from a ticket rep for the Predators in six months than I did in five years with the Thrashers.
In short – You can’t treat the true fans with less respect then what happened here in Atlanta. Is the city a bad sports town? For pro sports – absolutely. But anyone who says it was the fans fault for the Thrashers being relocated just doesn’t know the full story. Sorry for being long-winded but I’ll end it here. There were more lies from the Spirit Group during any potential sale to keep the Thrashers here but that is for a later day.
by View From 318 on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amazing. Thanks for the story
I knew a lot of this, but certainly not all of it. It’s criminal how they mismanaged that market.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
No Problem
Part of me didn’t want to even watch NHL hockey this year, but guys like Tavares brought me back. Plus I always liked the stories from my folks about going to NYI games in the late 70’s, the old uniforms, etc. so it was a bit of an easy transition (plus I already hated the NYR from the Thrashers one playoff series in ’07).
by View From 318 on Nov 22, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wait a second....
Hates the NHL.
Loves Tavares.
Misses the late 70s/early 80s.
Loves bright blue and orange, non-black jerseys.
Hates the Rangers.
You’re practically an Islanders fan already!
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Nov 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Great reading your comments & see things from your perspective, 318.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 23, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
The Matzo Man ...
and MacDonald are both way below their pre-injury level. That leaves Hamonic as the only fully functional D-man who is … good. Major problem.
This team is so immersed in losing again that I really think it might be better to get Niederreiter and Ullstrom the hell out of here. Not only so they don’t feel required to do more than they should or can and change their games, but also to get them out of the negativity before the infection of losing gets them. Those 2 guys are not gonna turn this around, so what good can come of subjecting them to this at this point ?
It's that time of year again.
Happy Holidays.
ChryWheat....
I hope you are referring to Sam Adams Cherry Wheat
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
After last night
and the day I am having today, I think a stop for that exact beverage is in order.
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
there are no lessons
only sadness and depression
what positives can be taken, and what negatives could be fixed?
I'm a mets, jets, islander, and terps fan. Also known as a glutton for perennial punishment.
Matt Martin has the 2nd most SOG on the team
who woulda thunk it, though I am not surprised
Actually not uncommon this season
Not that many of them are threatening shots, but at least he gets the idea.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like it though because he at least tries to wait for a teammate to get to the front for a rebound and he seems to intentionally
shoot so as to leave rebounds.
Agreed
He’s refreshingly followed some fundamentals this year. Makes some of his teammates’ play all the more maddening.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I just left a voicemail message for Kimber at the Coli; hopefully he'll ring me back.....
…..basically expressed to him how thoroughly depressed many of the fans are and that Garth needs to start communicating with them/us……
In memoriam: Virginia Ariel Cayon 1927-2011 R.I.P. Mom
that's Weight's job now
i though, PP coach, all around good guy, and special adviser to the GM or something… it’s all worth it, considering the ManGames lost he provided us over the last 3 years
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
Garth or Cappy? Somebody needs to go...
The aweful summer signings are on Garth. Not one guy there has helped this team, they’ve actually hurt it. We’ve all talked about Staios, Pandolfo, Rolston, etc and how poorly they have been…but i’m starting to questions whether or not Reasoner was an upgrade from Konopka. Atleast K had a role, in the dressing room and on the ice, and he was effective in those roles. Reasoner? I’m not seeing anything. The lack of team speed and ability with these guys is bringing down the team.
The goalie sitch is dreadful and some very poor decisions have been made ie starting Nabakov over the Cuban vs the Rangers, now starting Nilsson last night. Talk about setting a guy up for failure…wow. Unless DP was hurt, inexcusable from my standpoint.
I think we’re getting much closer to figuring out who were good draft picks: ie Bailey, Okposo, etc. He’s had some winners, no doubt, but there are alot of very big questionable picks.
The lack of energy: not bringing up someone with energy and or toughness is also inexcusable as far as Im concerned. We get in holes, constantly, and have no chance of turning it around. We’re terrible in the third period. We need some mojo and it’s up to Garth and Cappy to make those calls. I like Ullstrom, we need scoring, but we need energy and some attitude as well. We are talented, we just don’t have the moxy.
I know, it’s only game 25 or whatev, but wow…this team is like watching a car crash.
The sickening thing...
is you could go back 3, 4 years and read the same freakin comments. Some of the names are different but that’s it. Everything bad Dirty says about how things are now also applied then. We had the final third of last season when it LOOKED like things were finally coming to fruition, but which now seems like just temporary stretch of decent play in meaningless games against REAL teams that were just cruising until playoff time.
i'm with you on Nillson last night
some people thought it was a shot at DP sitting him when he was the last of the 3 headed monster left, but i think Cap was doing him a favor keeping him on the bench.
These comments crawl up from the depths of the deepest Chasm of Saar
this team is like watching a car crash.
No. Car crashes are exciting.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's like watching a car slowly run out of gas along I-95.
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 22, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Reasoner problem is (based on history with this team)
Is that he is a role player, and as such, only will only look good when others (with more important or bigger roles) are actually doing their jobs. This has always been a problem with the Isles and some of the fanbase (not singling you out, because I’ve done this also) and then we proclaim things like “why did we let him get away” etc.
Think of Richard Park, Nate Thompson, Sean Bergenheim and all of those guys last year that people wanted to bring back because they went somewhere else and looked good. The fact is, those guys went to better teams and more favorable situations where they weren’t expected to contribute in quite the same way Isles fans and the team actually NEEDED them to in order for the team to be successful.
They just went and played the way they usually play, and it worked better because of the remainder of the cast. I have no doubt in my mind that Reasoner would look great for a team like Detroit or San Jose or somewhere else where primary and secondary scoring and lineup balance already exists.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agree 100%
Reasoner is not on the top-10 underachievers list this season. If he’s to blame at all, it’s probably less than a 2% piece of the pie. (Probably about 3/4 of that pie can be divvied up between other forwards on the team.)
"The reader of this sentence exists only while reading me."
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 23, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Actually he is.
{link}
But in all fairness he shouldnt be.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 23, 2011 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
I WILL REPEAT
my post from last night. NEVER been more disappointed in a team than I am right now. Too passive, TOO DAMN SLOW, totally underwhelming on offense. Almost totally unwatchable right now and, sorry, but Haley is not the answer. He might help in the short term, but over the long haul our top players (nielsen, Okposo, Streit, MacDonald, Comeau et al) MUST start producing. Watching your team (for 40 years now they have been my team) get overwhelmed and outplayed almost every night is disheartening and humiliating. Sure expected better this year but you know Expectation is the mother of all Disappointment. From here on in, I do not expect anything from this team especially wins. How on earth did this happen?
This is NOT a rebuilding year!!!
by upstateislesfan on Nov 22, 2011 8:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
