Top 25 Islanders Under 25: They let a goalie in? Kevin Poulin at #7
by Dominik on Nov 2, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
in Islanders in Diapers
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The occasion of a Kevin Poulin win this morning in Bridgeport -- Tim Wallace with the hat trick, including the OT winner -- is a good time to roll out perhaps the most hit-or-miss member of our Top 25 Under 25. What's clear from our voting (which took place before preseason) is all voters like Poulin as the Isles' top goaltending prospect.
What's not clear is where on earth you should rank goalie prospects, who as a rule are even harder to predict than defensemen or forwards. No one has a good handle on how to project goalie prospects; everyone just knows that you need them, because some of them do pan out, or at least hold the fort while you wait for saviors from left field.
In both the AHL and NHL last year, Poulin looked very good. In small samples, of course. This year he's off to a very rough start (4.29, .868, even smaller sample), and the back-of-mind question is whether the dislocated knee cap that ended his 2010-11 affects him now or is likely to affect him again in the future.
I don't really have a lot to say about Poulin, because goalies are notoriously unpredictable and should be viewed with suspicion like the cute raccoon on your back deck. He looked very good -- refreshingly good -- in his emergency appearances last season as Islanders goalies dropped left and right. But that was just seven starts in the NHL (2.44, .924), just enough to fool. To see him join the injury parade was discouraging to say the least.
This season Anders Nilsson has thrown his name into the Bridgeport equation and Mikko Koskinen looks to rebound from an ugly 2010-11. Bad start aside, it's still safe to say Poulin remains the most promising masked prospect.
Where he should rank among the Top 25 Under 25 is anybody's guess. And that's why we do this.
How We Voted
| Top 25 Under 25 | mikb | M11 | CIL | Dom | KQ | Web/Mark |
| Kevin Poulin |
13 | 12 | 3 | 9 | 7 | 6 |
For this first edition, we polled LHH authors Keith, WebBard (Mark D), mikb, myself, and two particularly prospect-focused LHH regulars, CanadianIslesLifer and MatthewM11. We wanted enough to get a decent number of voters but not so much that we make the first run unwieldy. It is absolutely unscientific but with varied enough votes to get us thinking about who are the best hockey players now, balanced with who has the best potential/value long-term.
The average of votes ranks him 7th on our list. You could say from those votes that either some of us pulled him up, or some of us pulled him down. Where do you have him?
Previous Posts in This Top 25 Islanders Under 25 Series
- Those who didn't make the Top 25
- #25: Anton Klementyev, D
- #24: Not to be Pedantic, but is it Andrei or Andrey Pedan, D
- #23: Mark Katic (D) shoulders the burden
- #22: Rhett Rakhshani (W)
- #21: Matt Martin (LW), budding 'stache
- #20: Johan Sundström, C
- #19: David Ullström, C/W
- #18: Scott Mayfield, D
- #17: Kirill "A" Petrov, W
- #16: Feisty Casey Cizikas, C
- #15: Towering Anders Nilsson, G
- #14: Roloson Reward Ty Wishart, D
- #13: Oklahoman Matt Donovan, D
- #12: Brock Nelson, C/LW/Reverend
- #11: Kirill Kabanov is a Thing to Say, W
- #10: Calvin de Haan, D
- #9: Anders Lee, C/W
- #8: Josh Bailey, C, 220 Games and Counting
The Top 25 under 25 is an idea conceived by Oilers blog Copper & Blue and copied elsewhere, incorporated here by popular demand. We cut it off at players who were under 25 going into this season, so Andrew MacDonald, having just turned 25 this month, barely misses eligibility
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I put it the opposite way
Until he turns it around inBPT, – the assumption is that this severe injury has had an adverse effect on Poulin’s prognosis for a promising NHL career. If I were a GM I would rather have Nilsson as my property.
Fortunately the Isles have both.
I hope Poulin works through this and gets the time he needs, but his performance so far this season is definitely a bit worrisome.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 3, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
What is really disturbing is...
he sustained the injury while standing still, more or less, no butterfly, or side to side slide, he just kind of turned and pop! no ice is that bad, so the knee has to be suspect. At least DP gets hurt by overplaying, or overcompensating. I can only imagine him having some great seasons, getting a long contract and then popping a knee stepping on the ice, I know stuff like that never happens…….oh wait…….
Wait
I thought the report was that he was moving, and hit a bad chunk of the ice?
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
That what I heard too
that his skate got caught in a groove around the crease and his kneecap dislocated
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
just cause I googled Poulin Injury
I tend to dislike prohockeytalk but here:
Poulin was simply skating in warmups but appeared to catch a rut in the ice and went down.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I was being facetious here
My point was it wasn’t even game action. Every skater hits a rut from time to time, but it didn’t even look like he was exerting himself, just weird… and he had the same injury on the other knee in juniors.
by JimFromStJames on Nov 2, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That he had the same injury in JRs is bad, but the Nassau ice is infamously bad
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Injury at JR's?? The Steakhouse?
Kevin tried to be a 76 oz Steak Challenge winner. He did not succeed.
by Isles2011 on Nov 2, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Thats Great
I get the feeling that you could superimpose that over almost anything and it would be hilarious.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Where the heck did Marty park the car?!?!
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 3, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I swear
me and my friends have looked like that leaving many a bar…one guy obviously needing assistance, one guy looking on disapprovingly, one guy getting a towel ready.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Nov 3, 2011 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd this meta-image
Marti would make a great wingman, you must admit. I bet he’d even be a good lead blocker. (“Sure, I’ll take the ugly chick.”)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 3, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And then Marti would marry that ugly chick if you guys got serious with the main girl.
“It’s cool, she actually doesn’t have a bad personality and she can cook good!” lol
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Poulin Wall
Still high on this kid and holding out hope that we finally have a longterm answer to our goaltending situation, despite the injury…but as an Isles fan, perhaps I should start expecting the worst.
Do not expect the worst
We’ve done enough of that. Not that Tavares is THE savior, but he just has “it”, and as long as we have a few players that have “it”, we’re going to start winning in a big way in 1-3 years.
As for Poulin, he’s going to be good. He’ll come back from that injury at 21. Now, if he has another freaky injury, then we perhaps change perspective. I like him a lot. Any injury takes time……especially mentally.
#10
on my list. Had both the pedigree and the (short) professional success to crack the top 10. Of course that was before he was terrible this year, but I’m not sure I would have dropped him much, if at all, because of a handful of games.
Anyone know of an article looking at AHL goalie performance with regards to NHL? I know no one has much, if anything, for junior to NHL, but I didn’t know if there was something for the AHL.
Tavares is Tavares.
Did Poulin have the same injury
when he played at (QMJHL) Victoriaville Tigers?
Same injury
different knee
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I'm going to go the complete opposite
I would have him as #3 overall in the Isles organization. I think he’s young enough to come back from this injury to not have it be a long term concern. Today, stopping 33 of 36 shots was a nice step towards getting it back. I think the biggest factor for me when grading these players is can this player step into the lineup right now and be a productive NHL player . With Poulin, he can. He showed that last year, and I guarantee if he didn’t get hurt, we would have never seen Al Montoya in an Islander uniform.
The second factor brings in potential, and the question is does this kid have the ability to be above average at his position in the next five years. I also believe Poulin can. The only players in the Isles organization that I can confidently say that about right now are John Tavares and Travis Hamonic. So that’s why I would rate Poulin 3rd overall. I can’t even say that about Kyle Okposo anymore, bc to me he’s just an average NHL winger at this point in time. Ever since his injury he seems to have regressed and over 50 games still hasn’t seemed to regain his prior form.
I know a lot of times goaltending is a crapshoot, but if Poulin is only 21 and won people over last year in his brief stint, then I’m confident hes going to be special in the future.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
Honestly I'm losing my mind right now
bc I can only think of 5 of the remaining 6 players
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ohh I'm going to apologize to everyone
bc I forgot Michael Grabner. Sorry, to me he just seems older than only 23 years old. Ok, I would rank Poulin #4. I’m going to give myself a timeout right now for this clear display of boneheadedness
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Before you hit timeout
My main concern with the injury isn’t the age, but whether it poses “chronic” potential. Which we probably can’t answer. I mean it might, it might not.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'm still high on KO
Agreed though, he is very average right now, but i still think he’s going to turn into a consistent 24/36/60 guy that plays a nice two way game as a 1st or 2nd line wing.
My last 6 would be:
6.Okposo
5.Grabner
4.Nino
3.Strome
2. Hamonic
1. Tavares
Hard to argue that
But I’d flip Grabner and Nino. Hope I’m wrong on that one, though!
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 2, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were doing my remaining six it would be
6. Nino
5. Okposo
4. Poulin
3. Grabner
2. Hamonic
1. Tavares
Strome wouldve been 7 and Bailey wouldve been right where he is now at number 8. If Nino shows he can be productiver this year that would change but as of right now this is how I’d have to rank them.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
For me its simple
Again it comes down to future potential over current ability to produce. When I see ‘Top 25 Under 25’ to me that means the best players under 25, not who may be the best in the future. So with that in mind, the top players on your list should be the guys that you would choose to be on your team at this moment.
So on my list, all of the players I put above Strome are guys I think are more ready to produce at the NHL at this moment. And besides Poulin (and who knows given the goalie situation was cemented before training camp ever started), all of those guys made the Islanders roster this year. Strome didn’t, which makes me feel ok with my assessment of where he is on my list.
I think Strome will be a special player in this league, but in 2011, I think all the guys I put above him are better players.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Grabner is a scoring chance generating machine. We’re going to need that excitement on Long Island after the other exciting local player named Jose skips town for the Bronx or Philly. Ugh.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
I like Grabs a lot,
but he’s never going to be a play-maker (from an assist perspective for others), he’s never going to win battles in the corner, and he has a below average slapper/wrister. Yes, this perhaps unfair. He was a great find nonetheless, i just see Grabs as being really good (he did it for 1 year remember), but I see Strome’s and Nino’s upside as being even higher….like, "special type player higher. It wouldn’t shock me if Grabs settles more in that 25-30 goal range than a 30+ guy. He is a one-man scoring chance though, because he can skate, skate, skate, and skate fast……….and so he’s also great on the PK. Other than Hamonic at #2 and Tavares at #1, I see the other 4 as fairly interchangeable on such a list like this.
see your point...
…but i’ll take a guy that has scored 30 goals in the NHL over a prospect that has a handful of NHL games under his belt – any day of the week. Grabner’s speed makes him so dangerous.
"Live from the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York - Sportschannel presents, New York Islanders hockey. Tonight, the New York Islanders take on..." -Jiggs
like I said earlier
this list is the Top 25 Under 25, not the Most Potential 25 Under 25, so the fact that someone has already proven he can score at the NHL level as opposed to someone who MAY score at the NHL level has to be factored in. You have to account for the fact that a prospect could end up being one of the Scott Scissons and Dave Chyzowskis of the world (double mention in a comment again, I’ll go take another timeout), and a guy who has already put up 30+ goals in an NHL season has proven that he won’t end up being one of those wasted picks.
author of "57 Easy Ways to Score More Than 2 Goals a Game"
by Chris McNally on Nov 2, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed....
just a fun exercise. I want to see Grabs put up 30+ again this year. Grabs is a reason why you let Bailey play another 1-2 seasons before jumping ship. Grabs was having a hard time getting traction in the NHL….got a few spot chances here and there…then we get him and commit to him, and boom it clicks. and he explodes. Have to love it. Really, as much you have to love many of the draft picks, Snow’s done well with finding Grabs, Moulson, PAP, Montoya etc.
I think Strome has a chance to be a very special player
I think Strome has an outside chance of being a point-a-game player. That’s why I would put him ahead of Grabner (who, perhaps, has a chance at being a consistent 35+ goal scorer, of which there were only 7 last season and 11 the season before in the NHL). I know Grabner has achieved a whole lot more, but if I had to protect one and let the other go, I’d protect Strome. (There were 7 and 15 pt-a-game players the past two seasons, for comparison.)
Very close in my mind, though.
Not every team has 5-8 players of this quality under 25 years old.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 2, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I Tend to agree with you...
inspite of your correction below adding Hamonic, I “overdrafted” Poulin b/c I believe if he can fully recover from the injury, he is only one of three that have elite potential in my mind: JT and Strome being the others. While Hamonic is that Serge Savard, Kevin Lowe, Stefan Person-Kenny Morrow type of solid all around D champion teams need after their star stud number one Dman. I think KO has proven that he is a pretty good third line right wing on a good team.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Nov 6, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Poulin is #6 on my list
Nilsson is the only other goaltender on the list at 15. These two could easily switch places or fall behind Koskinen if he should find some health and magic.
I think an ever improving BPT defense, and three goalies producing good starts in the NHL will do him a world of good.
With Ricky’s contract, a good year by Nabokov means that he’ll be finishing this year, or starting next year with another team… so there should be plenty of opportunities for everybody next year.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
Even enough opportunities for...
… Cody Rosen?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Nov 2, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why He's going to school
by the time he graduates all the other goalies will be suffering from Isles Face/Hip/Knee. Rosen will then save the day.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Nov 2, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey!
Glad to see you’re back up and running. I almost thought you finally found an opportunity to get off the grid.
“We don’t know what happened… but if you steam up the bathroom the name CODY ROSEN appears on the mirror”
- This week on CSI:Islander Prospect Report
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
by JPinVA on Nov 2, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
meaningless fun
lee-tavares-strome
grabner-bailey-niederreiter
kabanov-nelson-okposo
cizikas-ullstrom-petrov
martin-sundstrom-rahkshani
dehaan-hamonic
wishart-mayfield
donovan-pedan
katic-klementyev
poulin
nilsson
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
MEANINGLESS FUN
Yet here you are trying to find meaning!!
I kid…alls I done was put the top 25 under 25 into lines and pairings.
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
by Bryan2112 on Nov 2, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fun is *never* meaningless
I say, anyway.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I like....
your top 15. Also, your top 8 defense ain’t too shabby either. You can keep a lot of your players fresh with this line-up :-).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
for meaning less fun
swap out Strome for Bailey, and put MM back in and you’ve got yourself a decent guess. Sad to say I think Bailey won’t be on that list
I see (all projections of course for fun) as Nino being a 28/38/66 guy and Strome as a 35/45/80 guy
Strome can be very special (KK being the great wildcard though) and Nino being every bit as good as Grabs but in a very different way. With that said, I can totally understand Grabs being placed ahead of Nino based on last year. I do see Strome’s upside as being very high though. Time will tell.
OH NO, pr*j*ct**ns!!!!112
If only pro…proj…um – the “p” word – were for fun and fun alone. Sadly, that has NOT been the case at LHH…
/looks up at indiscriminant spot on wall and remembers the price of pr*j*ct*ng
(sorry, NewIsles, but using that word here is kinda like saying Sauron’s name.)
"Seriously that's the last time you guys f#@%ing won?" -RSH (about beating the Penguins in '93)
try more like voldemort...i mean he who shall not be named
screw homework, its all about islanders hockey
When was that picture taken?
It’s sad if that’s during a regular season game.
Stainer of mountaintops.
During warmups
(Which is when he was injured.)
So while it looks like a snowstorm crowd, it’s actually just a warmup crowd.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Nov 2, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Poulin, he has a ton of potential and if he matures as expected he could be great.
As long as injuries don’t derail his career. And this one may have already started that(jury is out). FUUUUUUU.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I think Poulin's knee injury and lack of sample size last year makes Anders Nilsson the top goalie prospect.
Nilsson put up similar numbers to Henrik Lundqvist in the SEL at the same age. 1.92 GAA for Nilsson and 2.17 for Lundqvist. Lundqvist had a better SV% in his years in the SEL but to have anything in common with that man is a compliment.
Thanks
I was wondering if anyone would disagree with that “safe” assumption. You may be right.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Nilsson put up similar numbers to Henrik Lundqvist in the SEL at the same age. 1.92 GAA for Nilsson and 2.17 for Lundqvist. Lundqvist had a better SV% in his years in the SEL but to have anything in common with that man is a compliment.
Has anyone thought about how pissed Montoya would be if another SEL dude drafted far later than him gets the starting position over him lol?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 6, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
I feel this needs to be said.
Poulin will never be a great goaltender because Rick DiPietro messed up the Islander goaltending so badly, that no one can ever play goal again . There is no other way to state this than to blame DiPietro, his contract, his puck handling decision making and his injury status forcing Poulin to play after 3 other Islander goaltenders were injured.
At least somewhere in every thread I think it is important to blame Rick DiPietro for everything.
by Hockey1919 on Nov 4, 2011 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
total bullshit.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
He totally messed up Mikko too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 6, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Poulin: Why I ranked him third
When I ranked Poulin third, I basically asked myself if there was a player I would overdraft or over rank, who would it be, and which players I felt had the potential to be elite, franchise types. The answer to the former was Poulin, and the answer to the latter was JT, Strome and Poulin, while players like Hamonic, Grabner and Nino, among others should be above average. Poulin’s knee is the big question. He’s the kid Patrick Roy once called the best goalie in the QMJHL, and league know for producing top butterfly goalies. If Poulin can fully recover from his injury, I think he will be a top 4 or 6 goalie in the NHL. At least that is where I see his ceiling. If he doesn’t pan out, Anders Nilsson is a pretty good insurance policy.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Nov 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
