A quick note on the salary cap floor
Apparently, there was a game of sorts last night. Funny how I don't remember much except the wailing headache and the mysterious desk imprint on my forehead. Hm. But anyway, in the comments about "last night's game" is a perennial discussion here in Islanders Country about the Cap Floor. To wit, suggestions by several of us to remove certain well-paid gentlemen from the active roster have been met with cries of "It will put us below the Cap Floor!" These cries are countered with, "So what? Don't they just make you pay out the difference to everyone?"
It's time to see if we can figure this stuff out, and to do that, we're forced to face an opponent more fearsome than Sauron and Gargamel combined: the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Normally any discussion of the salary cap involves the ceiling, not the floor. For example, if you want to add a guy who would put you over, you have to subtract salary FIRST and only then will you be permitted to add that guy. Within the CBA, one can find many examples and illustrations of what a club can or cannot do when they're right at that upper boundary - but precious few of what happens down in the Baltic-and-Mediterranean end of town, where the Isles currently sit, hoping someone will land on their Marriott and owe them a money.
The CBA calls the Cap Floor the "Lower Limit." (Do not attempt to adjust your browser!) The entirety of their warning to clubs wandering near this uncharted land is in Article 50.5 c (i):
Lower Limit. No Club shall, after commencement of the regular season, be permitted to have an Averaged Club Salary that falls below the Lower Limit for that League Year.
Elsewhere, the CBA spells out exactly what goes into the Averaged Club Salary, which is calculated daily at 5:00 pm. (It really says this.) The upshot is, a club's ACS includes total of salaries already paid and salaries remaining for current roster members, along with bailouts and bonuses and etc. This must remain above the salary floor number at all times during the season. Or else... ?
For that we consult Ezekiel 25:17 Article 50.12 c (iii), which reads thus:
Non-Compliance Provisions. In addition to the provisions of Article 26 of this Agreement, the NHL shall discipline Clubs for material and intentional non-compliance with these provisions, provided, however, that a Club's first offense shall carry a mandatory fine in the amount of any revenue discrepancy plus $1,000,000, plus the loss of a first-round draft choice; and a Club's second and any subsequent offense shall carry a mandatory fine in the amount of twice any revenue discrepancy plus $5,000,000, plus the loss of three (3) first-round draft choices.
For example, this means that if the Isles had dipped below the floor in 2007, then their first pick in 2008, Josh Bailey, would never have happened. In addition, they would have owed the league a cool million plus whatever amount they fell under the floor. If they had then gone ahead and fallen under the lower limit again, that's John Tavares, Nino Niederreiter, and Ryan Strome all gone to other clubs, and Charles Wang lighter by five million bucks at the minimum.
Even Rick DiPietro's most ardent detractors have to admit, that's a mite steep.
The provisions outlined under Article 26 (and mentioned above) have more to do with active attempts to circumvent the Upper Limit while trying to sign players. Article 26.13 c outlines all the furious vengeance the Commissioner can lay upon thee in the event such a contravention is attempted, much of it similar to the quoted penalty above. The Devils were punished under 26.13 for their attempt to monkeyshine the Upper Limit in the Ilya Kovalchuk contract, for example. And though this is purely speculation on my part, I believe that the NHL repeats the penalties in both these articles to make it clear that the Member Clubs face these penalties for violations involving player compensation, not just for violations in reporting their revenues for escrow accounting purposes. (Article 50 goes into that in some detail, immediately followed by the "Non-Compliance Provisions," so it's a reasonable precaution.)
For further information, one can always weed through Articles 9 through 11, which govern Entry-Level Contracts, Free Agency, and the Standard Player's Contract. Articles 12-14 govern waivers and other player assignments, all of which would affect the Islanders' decisions on personnel movement (and the salary cap consequences).
Hope that helps.
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So
is that 5pm EST? (I kid)
Thanks for this-it definitely clears up the punishment issue.
I’m still foggy on the Averaged Club Salary a bit since it always seems there is a team that adds someone at the end of they year that seemingly would take them over the cap, but somehow they are below based on what happened earlier in the year. But it does seem to be pretty cut and dry that you just add up the contracts, the buyouts, and the bonuses and that’s that.
And yea-the upshot is DP isn’t going anywhere unless a trade brings a $4million man our way. Also, Nino isn’t going anywhere either.
We do have some wiggle room though. Since it seems as though bonuses count in full, Staios and Pandolfo could go fairly easily, Staios only has an 800K salary and Pandolfo’s is 600K. The rest is bonus. So their salaries are comparable to the AHL guys who could replace them.
The AHL players who could add the most to the cap are Anders Nilsson at $1.75, de Haan at $1.47, Cizikas at $900K, Poulin and Ullstrom at $892K.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Added note pointed out by Fabtraption (I think)
Over 35 deals count against the cap even when in the AHL, but single season over 35 contracts do not. I didn’t recall this provision, but can we get a CBA reading on this as well since you are so well versed and better at “splaining” it than if I tried to read it.
That adds a nice little wrinkle into the Pandolfo, Staois, Rolston waiver debate as well, since it makes Rolston the most favorable to demote.
The citation is Article 50.5 d (i) B (5)
(B) From the day following the last day of Training Camp until and including June 30 of each League Year, “Averaged Club Salary” for each Club shall be calculated as the sum of the following amounts:
…
(5) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older… regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation…
That’s the bottom of page 202 through page 203.
Upshot – Rolston’s $5 mil becomes $4.9 mil in Bridgeport.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Its all in the fine print
is in the second or later year
So if you sign guys over 35 for one year deals you can demote them with no cap hit. Won’t even try to guess all of the legal reasons this clause was written this way.
Regarding 35+ contracts
and a ton of other stuff-capgeek.com is a great resource. Here’s a link for the Isles. You can see there are notations for 35+, no trade clauses, etc. to give you a quick overview of what’s going on with who.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
yes, thanks
It’s such a hassle to have to root for a team with four side-by-side browser windows opened to all this gobbledygook. Dammit, can’t we just argue about how ugly the third jerseys are gonna be?
/goodolddays
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Seriously
what’s funny is when you mentioned in your comment on the other thread that this was coming I opened up my CBA pdf, and did a search for “salary cap.” Amazingly that phrase doesn’t even appear once. Gobbledygook indeed.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Thanks, dude
Good to know. Now we can bitch about the dogs in the Islanders with a little more knowledge.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Nov 16, 2011 4:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Whoo, that's nasty
Good thing we didn’t do that. Is floor compliance more heavily penalized than cap compliance?
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I'm not sure
Very few teams face this issue, so it’s unexplored territory. (Here be Sparky the Dragons.) One hopes that, as a warning, the league offices would merely reject the roster moves, giving the Isles a de-facto mulligan. One suspects that they would act quite differently in practice, though. I’d expect the minimum penalty outlined in Article 50.12, plus bonus fining.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Not this year
What you are proposing is not possible for this season. You can’t adjust contracts on the fly.
by Francesca on Nov 16, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thanks mike...
you answered my “so what”. Last year when this was brought up the answer was that the owner had to disburse the difference amongst the team (or something like that).
I’d still say that the procedure may be different, but the answer remains the same.
They’ll need to pick up salary in a trade… that can be done…maybe not that easy, but when you have the 25U25 in your deck and all of your 2012 draft picks, you should be able to deal a decent hand or two.
It’s all about asset management.
LighthouseHockey: We saw this coming!
@JPinVA
You know..
I’m in favor of a salary cap and for steep penalties for those who go above or below it..
That said, it’s is dire need to be reworked during the next cba. Having a cap floor that’s almost $10m above the cap from 5 years ago is just ridiculous. I certainly don’t want to see clubs get skimpy, but forcing a club to spend $50m seems pretty steep. I wouldn’t mind seeing a wider range. And, of course, fixing loop holes. Salary that year = salary cap that year. No more of these front loaded garbage contracts.
by TA on Nov 16, 2011 7:34 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
agreed
The need is certainly there. The problem with the floor is that the CBA fixes it as $16 million below the maximum, no matter what. That eventually becomes a huge handicap. If the cap is $32 million, the floor is 50% of that… but when the cap is $64 million, then the floor is 75% of that. The spread between the two should be a fixed percentage, not a fixed absolute range.
Little-known provision of the CBA – there is a maximum individual salary as well. Teams can pay no single player more than 20% of the cap maximum of the year in which the deal is signed. If I sign a ten-year deal with a $50 million cap in effect that year, I can’t be paid more than $10 million in any single year of the deal, even if everyone and their twin expects the cap to rise in the future. This, like the floor, is to help prevent teams from being super-cheap with their roster and ice a probably-terrible team of minimum-wagers, with a single mega-contract around just for appearances.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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damn straight, TA.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Salary that year = salary cap that year. No more of these front loaded garbage contracts.
I think that could lead to even more shenanigans. They just need to lessen the allowable difference between the high year and the low year for a deal.
On the other points, absolutely dead on.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 16, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
They just need to lessen the allowable difference between the high year and the low year for a deal.
This. Yes, please. Please!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Pronger typifies this problem.
His last 2 years are 7% of his current salary. That’s right, 7%.
Even if you give him the $4 million year, his cap hit jumps from $4.9 to $6.7 without the two 525K seasons. Total joke.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 16, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Pronger typifies the problem almost perfectly....
Its right there except for the part that his is a 35+ contract (oops! on their part) and they are stuck with his caphit even if they send him to the AHL. Maybe Luongo typifies this problem because his isnt 35+.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
True
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
by afrosupreme on Nov 16, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
signing boni
How do you deal with a signing bonus? Isn’t Ehrhoff making like $12MM of his $40MM salary this year because his base is $2MM with a $10MM signing bonus?
by dunnowhat2type on Nov 17, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
I believe the key is still AAV
Average Annual Value. So even though he hauled in more this year, and hauls in less late in the contract, the cap hit for all seasons is the same over the life of the contract.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I agree as well
But I would imagine thi is not something players like.
Players want the owners to have more flexibility of course. Bob McKenzie was on VS last night discusing CBA issues this offseason and this will be among the many things discussed.
Good news fpor the NHL is that they already negotiated all of he tough stuff tback in ‘04-’05 that the NBA is now trying to get sorted out.
Pierre LeBrun had a nice article on major sticking points of the next CBA that posted on espn just before the season started. Worth the read.
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Twitter: @mikeryaninc
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Kind of
The bonus may be paid entirely this season, but the cap hit is spread out over the life of the contract, as Dominik said.
In either case, with the cap at $64 million and change, a $12 million year is still in compliance. But I think that technically it’s not a $12 million year for The Hoff.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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What's the point of the cap floor?
Why did the NHL feel the need to implement one?
Stainer of mountaintops.
Because of people like the Isles previous owners who wanted the team to have a 15M salary and to sell off every player worth anything for people they didnt have to pay.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Got cha.
Thanks for writing this mik. I never quite read a good explanation on the cap floor before.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 16, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously.
This is good stuff.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
appreciate that, thanks
I find that writing something like this actually forces me to understand it, so I can explain it to other people!
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Im going to be pointing to this a lot.
Its the first thorough, factual non-“speculation based” explanation of cap floor ramifications I have ever seen.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 16, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Great write-up. Learned a lot
I just thought that a team would lose their NHL Welfare handout, which the Isles don’t get anyway being part of the NYC TV market.
Just one issue……
For example, this means that if the Isles had dipped below the floor in 2007, then their first pick in 2008, Josh Bailey, would never have happened"
So, that would have been a bad thing??? Yup, I went there, someone had too :)
"Is that all you got, I'll take your best shot......Here comes the BOOM!"
I know it was a little sarcastic...
but the Islanders turned that pick into Bailey, Ness, Niemi and Ullstrom. Niemi is gone, but the other 3 are still around with a chance to help.
Right now...............
Ullstrom has 10 goals! Can we afford to bus him from BPT to Uniondale? or to save money the same bus could start on LI and take Bailey to BPT!
Limbo stick...
What is the ‘floor’? How low can we go?
Capgeek shows the current ‘cap’ salary at $50,826,666.
The equation to any move is how far above the floor are we?
Cap floor is at $48.3 million (is it sad I didn’t even have to look that up?) That means the Isles are $1,887,078 above the floor.
Be thankful. My team’s chillin’ at $932,193 above the floor. Not exactly a reassuring place to be.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
True... BUT-
Your team is there more because of actual salary, while we are there because of millions in buyouts and some kiddie ELC bonus dollars.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 17, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for this!
Great, great read. Since the Avs are even closer to the floor than you guys, this info is very useful to us as well. I bet there will be a bunch of people from Mile High Hockey over here in the next couple days taking a look at it.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
by andidee15 on Nov 17, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I thought this was really informative
Plus it gave enough examples so the lay man (or woman) can have a better understanding of what could happen regarding the cap floor. It really behooves everyone to stay above the cap floor, especially when it comes to the potential to forfeit 1st round draft picks.
I was so caught up on the meat and potatoes
I missed this the first time:
an opponent more fearsome than Sauron and Gargamel combined
That is too frightening to imagine.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
Similar to the Isles..
are the Tampa Bay Bucs of the NFL. There was an eye-opening article in the Wall Street Journal of all places regarding their manipulation of the cap and its floor. Seems they had 2 players that would be worth around 3 million against the cap if they made their incentives. Unfortunately, those incentives included blocking about 6 punts each on special teams, and since they warmed the bench consistently, they made the base salary, so they cost the team about 200K total (200k vs 2 mil, get it? Only 10 times less). The NHL doesn’t have those kinds of ways to skirt the salary floor, but paying Yashin to stay away and paying DP to give away leads allows the Isles to pay the league minimum. Sadly, this won’t prod Wang to open up the pursestrings during the offseason and allow Snow to gather the players that possess the talent to get this team to the late rounds of the playoffs..
You know you're an Islanders fan when you hit refresh on LHH 12 times a day. In summer.
(I love your sig lol)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 26, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Question: Would the NHL now prevent the Isles from waiving Rolston even if they wanted to?
I mean, I know his caphit counts even if he is in the AHL.
But the thing is, by waiving a player, you are talking the risk that he is claimed by another team. Then his caphit to the Isles would of course be zero.
Yes, I know- the idea of another team claiming him is pretty much laughable. But, it is still technically possible.
So- do you think the league would allow a team to waive a guy if, by doing so, they could be putting themselves significantly below the cap floor?
I think we are stuck with this guy.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
Yea
I mentioned this somewhere else today (I think). Some team could really screw the Isles by claiming him.
I don’t think the league would prevent it-they would just assess us the fines and dock us the pick(s). Which would really make us look so much worse; i.e. screwing ourselves to waive Rolston.
This is part of why waiving Comeau is so confusing.
Don't make me bring out the Silky.
We would have to make an instant trade for some big salary.
And we would be in a position of weakness.
A guy like Redden would be an Islander once again.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 27, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
I mentioned this somewhere else today (I think). Some team could really screw the Isles by claiming him.
Great minds think alike huh afro?
At least in this case lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Nov 27, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Heh-yea
What a travesty if it made Redden an Islander once again…
Don't make me bring out the Silky.

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