#14 on Islanders Top 25 Under 25: Ty Wishart of Waverly Place
by Dominik on Oct 6, 2011 11:14 PM EDT
in Islanders in Diapers
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Rating Ty Wishart at age 23 has nothing to do with him being all Islanders fans have left to remember Dwayne Roloson by.
It has nothing to do with his 6'4", 218 lbs. (okay, maybe a little). It has more to do with him playing a decent all-around game in 20 appearances (obligatory small sample caveat) with the Isles last season, leading us to think he has something to offer sooner rather than later.
For those who see the body and think it underused, I agree to a point. Sometimes he doesn't appear fully engaged, though I think he got better in his second stint in 2010-11. For the record though, his 26 hits in 20 games last season actually trailed only Travis Hamonic and Milan Jurcina in hits/game on the blueline.
Wishart appears to have had a bad training camp in 2011 -- this observer wasn't impressed in the limited preseason action -- and that may have been enough to get the Islanders to sign Steve Staios. If you think Wishart is on his third NHL organization for any particular reason, maybe there's something there. Alternatively, considering Staios just got one of the "A's" on his chest, you might say the Islanders were intent to add a veteran body all along, and Wishart and the other trio of young aspirants had to really wow them over to win a job.
Our Top 25 Under 25 poll was taken before training camp, but I think the result still holds up: Ty Wishart is arguably the Islanders' 14th-best player under 25 years old.
Better yet, having cleared waivers, Wishart still has time to earn a place later this season. Something tells me they'll eventually need him. Why, I'll go out on a limb and say Wishart is part of the Islanders' next playoff team. (Truthfully, that's just bravado: I'd never bet on the 14th-best anything. But I do think he'll be an NHLer.)
How We Voted
| Top 25 Under 25 | mikb | M11 | CIL | Dom | KQ | Web |
| Ty Wishart |
12 | 11 | 20 | 15 | 19 | 12 |
For this first edition, we polled LHH authors Keith, WebBard, mikb, myself, and two particularly prospect-focused LHH regulars, CanadianIslesLifer and MatthewM11. We wanted enough to get a decent number of voters but not so much that we make the first run unwieldy. It is absolutely unscientific but with varied enough votes to get us thinking.
Previous Posts in This Top 25 Islanders Under 25 Series
- Those who didn't make the Top 25
- #25: Anton Klementyev, D
- #24: Not to be Pedantic, but is it Andrei or Andrey Pedan, D
- #23: Mark Katic (D) shoulders the burden
- #22: Rhett Rakhshani (W)
- #21: Matt Martin (LW), budding 'stache
- #20: Johan Sundström, C
- #19: David Ullström, C/W
- #18: Scott Mayfield, D
- #17: Kirill Petrov, W
- #16: Casey Cizikas, C
- #15: Anders Nilsson, G
The Top 25 under 25 is an idea conceived (I think) by Oilers blog Copper & Blue and copied elsewhere, incorporated here by popular demand. We cut it off at players who were under 25 going into this season, so Andrew MacDonald, having just turned 25 this month, barely misses eligibility.
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and zero periods
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 7, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and some gratuitous
apostrophes.
Does Ty need to clear waivers on the flipside? Was he born to love us, born to kiss our faces?
by 4PeatSake on Oct 7, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was born to rub us
But we were born to rub him first.
Re-entry waivers applies, but if there’s an injury he can be called on emergency conditions until that “emergency” situation has ended.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I'll bet the farm that
the Isles will have such an emergency.
Thanks.
It's such a safe bet
Vegas won’t even list it.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Actually he doesn't
He’s on a two way contract and his AHL salary is 62,500. To be subject to re-entry his AHL salary would have to be over 102,000
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
by Anarcurt on Oct 7, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhh, thank you!!
I was meaning to look that up before commenting but CapGeek was frozen on me all day (still is).
The figure is actually over $105,000 though.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Thank you!
Great to know.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 7, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure you can overrate very big mobile defenseman, especially on this team
I have a feeling if he wasn’t exposed to waivers fans would be looking at him differently. Just like the 20 regular season games is too small of a sample, so is a handull of preseason games- in fact its even less meaningful. You know who had a poor preseason last year and got waived? Hint- he scored 30+ goals as a rookie last year. I fear this team puts way to much of a premium on veteren leadership. They should focus more on things like ability to play the game.
Seeing that defense is looking like a weakness for this team, our young defensive prospects are more important than ever. I’d be curious who you would rank ahead of Wishart. I can think of just a few
by MatthewM11 on Oct 7, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wishart cleared waivers though, Grabner did not, and Grabs was picked by one of first teams
we don’t know how many other teams above Isles put in a qualifier, but there was a lot of head scratching from a number of directions as to why Grabner was ever put on waivers…Tallon could have at least got something for him in a trade…the rumour was Tallon was trying to sneak Grabner through…anyway, the fact that Wishart went through the entire league with no one qualifying him, makes it a bit of an apples and oranges comparison
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 7, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was not to read too much into the preseason
It has been said Grabner was put on waivers do to a poor preseason, the same has been said about Wishart. That was really the extent of the comparision. Don’t read too much into the preseason.
#7 on my list
I really over-rated him. Again, my work was done before training camp failure and he moved to waiverly place.
That info may have pushed him out of hte top ten, but last year’s performance and the fact that the Isles valued him enough to take him as return for Roloson means more.
Ty Wishart will get more opportunity from the Isles and other NHL teams if it comes to that. What he does with those opportunities is another thing.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
He's on the fulcrum, isn't he?
Between “aw, he’s still young” and “isn’t it time he figured this out?”
This training camp setback is a knock for me, but I think a month in Bridgeport will tell us more than a September on Long Island. I tell myself that outside of the special ones, we usually cut young defensemen, particularly big young defensemen, more slack on the development curve.
And of course I remember Pronger on his second team at age 22 earning calls of “Hit him with your purse, Chrissy.”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Hopefully he gets it...
otherwise, maybe we can see what she’s doing next year.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
how is she at skating backwards?
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
hopefully terrible...if you know what i mean ;)
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 7, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Bless her little soul
One more reason to love hockey.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
saaaaayyyy
Nice gloves!
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Oct 7, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't give up on him yet
Because he was waived doesn’t mean you were wrong. The ability is there, as is the size, its working on positioning in BP that will only help when he gets the call
I'd love to comment on Wishart
but he was just kind of blah to me. I watched every game last year and he never really stood out to me, at least not in a way I can recall right now. The size is encouraging and a nice change from the Ness/Katic/Hillen mold, so hopefully he comes around.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
blah is fine if it means he devolops into a steady, reliable boring defenseman
Good defenseman don’t always stand out, and in a sense shouldn’t.
I love the Ron Bennington quote. Big fan of Ronny B.
blah is fine if it means he devolops into a steady, reliable boring defenseman
Good defenseman don’t always stand out, and in a sense shouldn’t.
I love steady reliable boring defensemen.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 7, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Had him
- back when I thought he had more or less earned a way onto the practice squad at least. I guess that may still happen, but seems pretty unlikely.
I do think given what we saw last year, he could still pan out. But at the same time for a guy who has had trouble cracking weak lineups for a couple years that might be farfetched.
Looks like a pylon to me
I trust in Garth, so I had high hopes after we got him. But so far, not so good. Time to start adjusting my expectations on this one, me thinks.
Wishart
I ranked him 20th. I wasn’t one of those who was overly impressed with Wishart last year. What I noted was potential, but a Dman who most games would make that one gaff…and of course, the really good teams will make you pay for that, in the playoffs. Worst case scenario, you become the modern day Steve Smith and prevent your team from winning a third straight cup, qualifying as a dynasty…exaggerating a bit but point is same.
One thing I think, I am not sure trying to make Wishart into a physical player just b/c he’s big is going to work. I think Wishart needs to work on postional D, much like the Swedish system, and learn to use his big body to his advantage.
On that note, I admit, prior to preseason, I wouldn’t have believed Wishart would clear waivers. A wakeup call for him.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 7, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions
Positional use of body
I agree trying to make him into a banger isn’t the right call. I wonder if that’s been part of his mission confusion through his career thus far, with coaches seeing that frame and dreaming of him roving from his perch to deliver big hits like some such Phaneuf.
The gaffe point is interesting. I don’t particularly remember a gaffe a game, but even an otherwise decent defensemen will cause headaches if he gets that reputation among his teammates and team.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Obviously based on my voting I was and still am quite high on him
And its more than based on what I saw last year in his 20 games. I thought he looked fine, but of course not big enough of a sample. I like him for the same reasons I really like Mayfield-although they are two very different players. What they have in common is that both are big and both can skate.
kind of why I had him that high
Big, mobile guys aren’t roaming the league in vast herds. I didn’t see enough of him during the postseason to know for sure what happened to get him sent down. Could it be that he lost a little of that mobility trying to bulk up to be a hitter?
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Thats possible
Its very possible that his demotion had something to do with conditioning, or addressing a particular concern. Of course whatever the reason he was exposed to waivers so whatever benefit they see him gaining in BP outweighed the risk of him being picked up. I really have to wonder if it wasn’t a conditioning or weight/mobility issue, because just going off a few weak preseason would not justify risking losing him to another team and instead going with a guy who hasn’t been effective in quite some time. We talk about small sample size, and that works both ways. Staois or Motteau may have had great preseasons, but that doesn’t negate all the concerns I have for those guys, just like a poor preseason doesn’t negate the promise I see in Wishart.
It won’t be long until someone gets the call in bridgeport. If Wishart is not one of the first names called, than I will have to wonder if the organization doesn’t see him as an NHLer. U
what small sample size? Wishart is 23, on his third team. Has played lots in AHL.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 8, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The preseason
“…just like a poor preseason doesn’t negate the promise I see in Wishart”
I’m sorry I thought that was clear. The preseason is a pretty small sample to judge anyone on. Its like in my earlier post I mentioned that Grabner had a poor preseason and was also waived, and as it turned out, his preason had little predictive value on his upcoming season.
If you've been waived through the league and no one picked you up, you have no trade value either
it’s not something to be understated. Wishart has slipped, or was over ranked to begin with, of that I have no doubt. This could be a pivotal year for Wishart, may or may not be make it or break it, but he doesn’t have too much time left to get it sorted out. I think he needs to just play his game and focus on defense.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 8, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't doubt that
I’m not arguing against the idea that the clock is ticking for Wishart. I don’t think I have communicated my position clearly enough. Pointing out that the preseason is a small sample or that other players have had poor preseasons, been waived and gone on to success is by no means my endorsement that I think this is at all the likely course for Wishart. I said what I had liked about him at the time the rankings were compiled, and I gave a few reasons not to give up all hope and left it at that. None of this was meant to be an irrational subjective defense of an obviously struggling prospect.
i'm not arguing period
i get what you said mathew, i am just giving my opinion.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 8, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
gotcha
I only meant “arguing” as in stating my opinion, not as in disagreeing with any particular member. I was adressing you but speaking in general, making sure that my opinion wasn’t coming across as overly optimistic. I sure hope my tone wasn’t taken as hostile or confrontational, that was not my intent.
My bet
Wish will be back on the Island before the leafs have fallen around here. We are skating with wounded and recovering Ds and the smallish prospects at the Bridge are not ready for the big show – Dom please refer to these remarks when I say “I told you so”
PS
Apologies you did say sooner rather than later.
Can't a guy get a chance
he played decent last year and with some good time at BGt without callups he may become even better. I hate when guys are so down on young guys, like everyone has to be a top pick and instant star
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
I like him
He has a chance to be a part of this. But this is a serious make or break year for him. Way too many people ready to jump ahead of him. I think we will know where this kid is heading by December so I’ll play wait and see before I rail against him. But he really needs to step up. He’s been a guy ‘on the cusp’ of NHL work for 3 years now.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
his best play
came in meaningless games late last year
he has a lot to prove
at this point, looks could be Garth’s worst move to date
there is time, of course, to change this – we’ll see
I don't think its fair to blame Snow for trading a 42 year old goalie for a prospect
regardless how that prospect turns out.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
