Islanders 2011-12 Preview: The forwards are strong in this one
by Dominik on Oct 6, 2011 7:02 AM EDT
in New York Islanders Previews
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There has been Sturm und Drang over the defense and angst over the goalies, but one area where the Islanders should hold serve in 2011-12 is with who they trot out on their forward lines.
Mind you, that doesn't mean people are brimming with confidence in the resurrection of Jay Pandolfo. But the Islanders had two very strong lines for the second half of 2010-11, and both of them return intact and ready to match last season if not improve upon it.
Further down the chart, Marty Reasoner adds a level of competency that Zenon Konopka could not -- which should improve the third/fourth line and as a side effect free up the other lines for better offensive opportunities. In theory.
Forwards on the Opening Roster
Matt Moulson - John Tavares - P.A. Parenteau
Michael Grabner - Frans Nielsen - Kyle Okposo
Brian Rolston - Josh Bailey - Blake Comeau
Matt Martin - Marty Reasoner - Jay Pandolfo
Extra: Ryan Strome
Forwards on Injured Reserve: Niederreiter, Trevor Gillies, Jeremy Colliton, Rhett Rakhshani.
Better Living Through Versatility
Konopka took a lot of defensive zone faceoffs. An insane amount, really. But overall, when he wasn't sent out for a quick faceoff-and-change, he and his wingers tended to face weak opposition and yet were still in over their heads defensively.
Reasoner's addition changes that. Perhaps the addition of Pandolofo (instead of Micheal Haley? Or Jesse Joensuu?) slightly enhances that. Hopefully another year's progression for Matt Martin and the addition of Brian Rolston helps.
We'll see.
Regardless, John Tavares should be another season better, which should make up for any slight regression by linemates Matt Moulson and P.A. Parenteau. And Kyle Okposo healthy for a full year (knock on wood) should help the FNGO line (with Nielsen and Michael Grabner) hum along as it finished last season and began this preseason.
Two interesting developments happened over the aggregate of last season: Tavares had regular linemates and in his sophomore year was no longer sheltered so much from tough competition. And related to that, Nielsen no longer drew strictly the toughest assignments.
Nielsen and his linemates are still the go-to guys in close-and-late situations. They'll still be deployed against the opposition's best when possible. But Tavares' continued evolution and the presence of Reasoner means the Islanders no longer need to live and die with Nielsen, and the fourth line (or whatever line Reasoner centers on a given night) no longer needs to be protected so severely. Which means the other more offensively oriented lines can be deployed more often to take advantage of the opponent's weakest links.
Enigmas
We've gotten this far in the forward preview without mentioning three wild cards: Along with Rolston (will he be first-half waiveable Rolston, or second-half serviceable Rolston?) there is minus men Josh Bailey (-13) and Blake Comeau (-17) Their sum should be greater than their parts, but that has not yet been the case despite fairly lenient assignments. (I don't normally cite +/-, but when two players haven't been used in strenuous roles and still come out with major minuses...it's worth noting.
Comeau pulled off an impressive and underrated feat last year by racking up 24 goals (18 of them at even strength). Bailey had a tortured year and went to Bridgeport and back. They're both still at ages where you can reasonably expect improvement this season. If that happens, if it clicks, and if Rolston is a plus rather than a minus, then we're on to something.
Then you have Nino Niederreiter. On IR with a groin/leg issue right now, the Isles began camp trying to force him into P.A. Parenteau's spot. I'll bet you a dollar he can't replace Parenteau right now. Parenteau is still underrated by some fans because "anyone could pile up points next to Tavares." Well, no, actually. Parenteau has a rounded game and the metrics to back it up -- while Tavares is the phenom, Parenteau helped that line in a similar way that Matt Moulson helped Tavares during his rookie year.
Everybody desires an ideal true "first-line winger" for that line, and I concede Parenteau isn't that. But at the moment, I wouldn't bet Nino fits that better than Parenteau. For one, Nino is still learning the game at this level. For another, they are different types of players. Parenteau is better at possession, probably better at defense, and of course has the advantage of existing chemistry. If the Islanders try to force Nino on that line right now, there may be growing pains.
Ah, but once Nino comes off IR, where does he fit? That's the wild card. I fear trouble on the top line, but if he can work something out with Bailey or Comeau (or both)...
Extras: Ryan Strome makes the initial roster ... Trevor Gillies is on IR but should be the first enforcer-on-call ... Trevor Frischmon impressed and ended up being the last cut in camp ... David Ullstrom, Justin DiBenedetto and even Casey Cizikas (depending on how he progresses in his first pro year) represent decent callup possibilities. ... Oh, and for esprit de corps purposes Micheal Haley is just a call away too.
Bottom Line
Although we've spent the navel-gazing preseason period agonizing over minor decisions like who makes the fourth line and how Pandolfo earned a contract after a year of hibernation, in the grand scheme the forwards should be the least of Islanders fans' worry. The bottom six has some options -- some old, uncertain options, yes -- but also a nice mix of forwards in Bridgeport that may produce a quality replacement or two should things go awry.
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One thing is for certain
I’m excited for hockey to return! I got my blue and orange glasses on, and ready for the ride!
Go Isles!
I'm a mets, jets, islander, and terps fan. Also known as a glutton for perennial punishment.
by longbeach on Oct 6, 2011 7:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Excited here too!!!!
I had my nail appointment last night and my nails are orange, blue and white. hehehe
That truly pained the nail tech who is diehard black and gold.
OK, Let’s Go Islanders!
"If the bell needs to be answered, we've got the guys to answer it." "If they want to start something, that's fine."- Trevor Gillies
Good stuff in this ....
preview.
It’s hard to not be excited about the level of talent up front now. For the first time in like 120 years, it matches up favorably against much or even most of the league.
I think that what 2 guys do this year will go a long way to defining the team’s season. Okposo not only needs to stay healthy, but simply put, he needs to score more goals. He may not be the 35 goal guy most of us were hoping or looking for, but he clearly needs to up his scoring to at least approach the level everyone expected. If he does that, the rest of what he brings every single game is enough that he’ll be an absolute gem of an overall player.
And the time is now for Bailey to find his role as a solid two-way player. Despite his stumbles along the way I still see the KID as a Brent Sutter type in the center spot. I think that’s what the GM had in mind when he went out of his way to get him. Whether he was brought into the mix here to soon, or was sidetracked by getting joba’ed between center ice and the wing doesn’t matter. It’s on him now to figure it out now.
I think if those 2 guys can get to where they SHOULD be, this team will be so much better.
Honestly
I see more upside in Comeau right now than Bailey. When he turns it on and reduces his COZO’s, he can be pretty dangerous. The key with him is whether he can develop consistency.
I hope I’m wrong, but I’m starting to worry that the premature trial by fire might have broken Bailey. Other than a few flashes, I’m just not seeing it. I guess we’ll have a better sense this year, as he is still pretty young (it just feels like he’s old and running out of time to pull it together because he’s been around since 18).
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I would be less optimistic ...
about Bailey if he was 25. But he’s just now at the point guys normally are when they first get their feet wet. I know he hasn’t shown much outside some occasional flashes, but his natural ability has never been in question and it’s just too soon to assume he’s not gonna blossom.
by dose on Oct 6, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe it's just me
but I’m not sure I really like Nino with JT and MM. My biggest concern is really about line speed and puck possession.
I don’t really think of JT or MM as blazingly fast, or as guys who can single-handedly bring the puck through the neutral zone with regularity. Given that Nino seems (to me) more of a power forward, dangerous closer to the net, I kind of feel like his skills will complement that line.
Not that PAP is the long-term answer or anything, but I kind of feel that at the present, he’s a better fit for JT and MM than Nino would be.
If anyone has a different view, I will not take offense!
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 8:56 AM EDT reply actions
Too Early To Tell...
Nino is young, and has not fully realized his game at this level, whatever it maybe. He may need a year or two at the NHL level to see that. PAP is the best fit for right now with JT and MM. Not a better choice in the organization that is ready. We all need a year to see how these guys play, how they fit with each other.
Agree mostly
But it will be a little easier to advance the puck through the neutral zone with Streit back. I do agree that PAP should start the season on that line. If Bailey can’t find chemistry with anyone outside of the top-6, then perhaps try PAP (or even KO) with Bailey and give someone else’s chance in the top-6.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 6, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I definitely don't like it, not yet
Need to see more of Nino to see if that trio will work, in the future. I’d agree PAP is the best one there until something changes/evolves. Although who knows, maybe Okposo comes off the FNGO line at some point to spread the wealth.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Funny how you say, "Spread the wealth"
… for a 2nd line guy moving to the top line. I LOVE our 2nd line. Arguable that 3 of Isles 4 most valuable forwards are on the 2nd line. And that is no disrespect to Moulson, who is arguably 3rd behind JT and Frans.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 6, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That and also
thinking domino-style, if such a move would mean “spreading wealth” like PAP to the Bailey or Comeau line.
I’m kind of excited we can have the old “load up a power line, or try to balance lines?” discussion now. It sure beats “hopefully the one good line lucks out enough to cover the other three lines’ deficiencies.”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I thought Tavares did a great job getting the puck from the neutral zone into the offensive zone last season
He was more confident in his puckhandling and his skating was a lot more fluid than as a rookie. I would routinely see him beat opponents one on one moving the puck into the o zone. I think N.D. Red Eagle makes a great point about Streit who has an excellent transition game and will help move the puck for that line. Its premature to assume Nino would be any better than Moulson, Tavares or Parenteau. Its true none of those three have excellent speed but JT and PA are excellent puck-handlers with good one on one moves. As a rookie Tavares didn’t seem especially keen with carrying the puck but now is more confident carrying and dekeing with the puck. That line’s real strength is in cycleing the puck down low and creating plays in front of the net, a role PA seems especially adapt while the little I’ve seen of Nino he seems to be much more of a north-south player, and that style of player would fit better on the FnGO line IMO. They create plays at high speeds and shoot the puck instead trying to create plays around and from behind the net.
I don't think that's Nino's scouting report. He's known
for his hands. He has great hands and will help any line keep possession. He’s big, yes and goes to the net but he’s not a grinder.
matchups
thte more I think I about it, the more I like the Pandolfo signing (for now)
At home, we can now matchup the other team’s top line against Martin-Reasoner/Bailey-Pandolfo – their only goal is to shut the other guys down
They have a better chance of doing this than any line we’ve had for some time
This allows us to match our top lines with the weaker lines of the opposition, giving us a key Home advantage – expecting us to be a very good home team this year
Also think we have arguably one of the strongest forward units in the league – and if Streit/Amac/Hamonic can anchor the D, and we get better than adequate G & stay relatively healthy for once, their may be more upside than we’ve been used to around this parts for some time
Speaking of replacement parts – can we simply call up Kabanov & Strome from juniors if we wanted to?
by Cary K on Oct 6, 2011 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I think the Isles have one of the more underrated group of forwards in the NHL.
The key is going to be healthy D, with key guys like AMac and Hamonic not taking backward steps, along with the G situaton sorting itself out.
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
they can only come up from juniors once their juniors season ends
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
Maybe my main post is overselling it, but I don't think they have a *great* group of 1-12 forwards
Just a strong one, one that should be able to compete with any team on any given night. Hoping they aren’t so top heavy anymore, while also hoping that top six (with JT a year older, KO healthy for a year) takes another step forward.
Of course one injury can change that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Except Pandolfo was terrible at shutting down opposing players in his last two years with the Devils.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
All about
the bottom six. They are going to be improved with Reasoner in the mix. And if Pandolfo and Rolston don’t work, there are plenty of guys knocking at the door. If they can take some pressure off JTs line, and make their production count for more, we’ll really have turned the corner.
JT - Minus Man
When looking over last year’s stats, I was surprised to see that Tavares’ +/- was a startling -16 (4th worst on the team. RSH was the worst at -19). I guess it makes sense since he’s technically out there against some of the best lines in the NHL but I thought it would have been a little better coming from the team’s leader in points.
Take em to the jabrone-zone
that's the problem
with Moulson-JT-PAP – none of the 3 are particularly defensive
which is why I expect they want Nino on the top line if at all possible
Words of wisdom
That is why PAP should not be on that line. You need a crasher to round it off. Ala Nino.
I know it seems crazy to even think it
but breaking up the FnGo line and putting Okie on the top line and Nino on the 2nd line makes a little sense, no? Nino’s rookie learning curve could be masked by the greatness of Frans and Grabs, and Okie brings everything to the first like that it currently lacks; grit, puck control, corner work, etc. And at a much higher level that Nino will be bringing this year.
by CloseCallJiggs on Oct 6, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been wondering about that
Because Nino is still a mystery in terms of how ready he is. He was certainly not ready last year, but for all we know he could be on a sharp learning curve this year and maybe he could reach a point where he learns from FnG without detracting from their effectiveness.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
KO-JT-MM
I think that line would brings the RUCKUS on the regular. Once Nino hits his stride in the NHL I think that trio could be almost, if not as successful as FnGO. Both Nino and Okposo were early first round draft picks for a reason.
Take em to the jabrone-zone
by IslesJabronie on Oct 6, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually It Was
At the beginning of the 09/10 season that line was on fire. In Gordon’s infinate wisdom he broke it up to put more scoring on the 2nd line. That did not work. It coinsided with JT and Okposo’s slump and Moulson slowing down. But once they reunited the last month and a half of the season they picked up their scoring again. JT would have reached 30 goals his 1st season and Okposo was on track to score 25 until they broke up that line.
Let me start by saying
I am not disagreeing with you just for the hell of it and I hope I am not coming off as aggressive or condescending. I do respect your opinion; I disagree with just about everything you say but I still respect your point of view. You stick to your guns, that’s for sure.
I do remember that line being broken up around the time JT starting slumping, but don’t remember which happened first, Tavares slumping or the line being shaken up. I’ll take your word that it wasn’t until after changing things around Tavares started to slump.
I think Okposo works well on FnGO because of his style of play, he plays a north-south type game and scores a lot from the slot. What I like about JT-PA-MM is that they move the puck well in the offensive zone and all three will go to front of the net. Moulson is a natural goal-scorer while Tavares and PA are both good stickhandlers and playmakers. None are fast skaters, but can maintain posession and cycle the puck in the offensive zone.
Ultimately I would like to see a more skilled version of PA on JT’s right side-someone who can stickhandle and create plays but also score. Kabanov might fit that mold. He is highly skilled and a very good playmaker. Strome, depending on whether the team moves him to wing might be another option. Anders Lee had size and skill and depending what kind of player he devolops into might fit this role. Nino I think
would do very well there but I would also like to what he could do with Grabner and Nielsen.
One point we can agree on is that PAP is not the future first line right wing. For now I think he is fine but will soon be replaced by better players. Heck, even Moulson could one day be replaced on the top line if either he regresses or we find players even more productive who can play with Tavares
I don't see the need to fix two things
that aren’t broken. PAP (and the first line in general) at the very least met, if not exceeded expectations last year, no? The FnGO line was very good once created. I would leave them both alone instead of trying to find a reason to squeeze a kid in who is probably best served learning to tear up the AHL.
It’s a refereshing situation, certainly unaccustomed, for the Isles to be in a position where they have the luxury of not rushing a recent 1st round pick in. Take advantage of it. If he rips through the A in a few months, well, then maybe think about a spot for him here.
I say this with difficulty, since I am loathe to disagree with a guy who has “Jiggs” in his title.
A completely healthy 5th year Okposo and a 3rd year JT on the verge of breaking out could be a completely different story.
+/- definitely doesn’t tell the whole story but I think if a player is on the ice for a significantly higher amount of GF than GA, it says something. Think Grabner with a +10 last year on a team whose players were predomidantly in the -
Take em to the jabrone-zone
by IslesJabronie on Oct 6, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
+/- is a worthless stat on its own.
If you account for team, Tavares’ +/- goes to basically 0, not way in the negatives. And yes FNGO’s is really high.
The team’s +/- were low because it HAD SUPER AWFUL GOALTENDING.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
OT but cool
Matt Martin and Mark Streit were on WPIX morning news today showing the hosts how to shoot. It was a good 5 minute segment. It seems like the team is finally getting some respect in the NY media.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
by Anarcurt on Oct 6, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
They posted the clip
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
ugh...
that was brutal to watch. why didn’t they shoot pucks outside instead of in a cubical office?
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
WPIX's morning news show is like a middle school drama club play
Which is why I watch it every morning before I got to work. Literally anything can and will go awry, sometimes with humorous results. Of course, I left before the Islanders segment. I’ll watch it today, but I know not to expect much.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Oct 6, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was awesome
in an SNL skit kind of way. I’m mesmerized.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
LAME
The only shots those two (hosts) were ready for are JELL-O shots… a real couple of WOO-WOOs.
Did anybody else think the girl on the right, cheering… was topless. okay… just me then.
PS: Mark Streit is the calmest defenseman on the team when it comes to 220lb forecheckers skating to him like freight trains… but put him in a room with two over-caffeinate morning show hosts and he’s a 9 year old boy. AWESOME!
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Behold the beguiling and charming lunacy of the WPIX Morning News
“So, you guys are, like, hockey players…what’s that like?”
This is what passes for probing journalism on the show. I like when Sukanya asks Martin if the Islanders are going to stay on Long Island. He’s a 4th line left wing from Godknowswhere, Canada. He’s neither a politician nor a real estate developer. But she probably read some headline somewhere that said they could move. What does she expect him to say? “Yup. We’ll be setting up shop in Saskatoon next week.”
She also asked Streit about concussions, because of “that one last year we all saw.” He gives an answer about the league and Shanahan wanting to teach players the right way to hit and she runs right by it without a clue about who Shanahan, or Mark Streit a.k.a the guy standing in front of her, even is.
Sorry. But watching them is infuriating and intriguing. I’d say it’s like a trainwreck, but trainwrecks arent’ funny as hell.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Oct 6, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I watch it on and off
It reminds me of the fictional news show that Robin hosts on How I Met Your Mother
I’m waiting for the day something goes on fire.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
"So, you guys are, like, hockey players…what’s that like?"
This is what passes for probing journalism on the show.
LOL!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 6, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If we're gonna be technical
it would be fNGO
<--waits for a COZO to start and then knows he has 30 seconds to run and grab another beer
by Chris McNally on Oct 6, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
Although I’ve seen no official style guide on the matter.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
What?
You mean it’s not covered in Strunk & White’s The Elements of Style?!
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I think when I came up with it it was FNGO
It’s kinda morphed to FnGO so it’s pronounced right (effin’ GO)
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
by Anarcurt on Oct 6, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will defer to the source
And I like either of those variations, for each of those reasons.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Regardless, John Tavares should be another season better, which should make up for any slight regression by linemates Matt Moulson
Why do you expect regression by Moulson? He has been consistant for 2 seasons. PA i do not expect much. I do not see Moulson and JT force feeding his last 4 goals to get him to 20.
Nino once he is healthy needs to play 1st/2nd Line duty time. If not you have to put him back in the Juniors. Which we all know is not going to happen. Since they are not breaking up the 2nd line that means his place when he is healthy will be back on the 1st line where he was all pre-season.
I will only say this 1 more time yes we became more skilled with Rolston and Reasoner but we are now the softest team in the NHL again.
It will actually be interesting to see
what Garth does with Nino when he comes off IR. If this were two years ago, I’d say there is absolutely no option but to keep him and see what he has. This season, Nino will have to earn his spot on the roster, b/c we have some depth in the “A”. My first preference would be to see him beside JT and MM as we expect his ultimate role will be as a #1 winger. However, if he’s not ready for that role, the team cannot, imo, wait too long for him to grow into it. We need to get off to a good start if we’re going to have a sniff at the playoffs. That requires a top line thta produces. PAP, we know, is capable of playing top line minutes and producing.
I can’t see breaking up FnGO, so for Nino, it’s first line or third. Either way, I think I’m OK.
/repetitive crap that has already been said a hundred times already
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 6, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
since they can send him back after 9 games
once he’s healthy, he’ll likely get his chances on 1st & 3rd lines and see what works best
still a bit surprised, perhaps, that we didn’t give Kabanov some games
but we seem to be putting full emphasis on a hot start, and I’m more than fine with that
we have to win opening night, and would be nice to beat the Wild on Monday as well, and go into the Tampa & Blueshirts games from strength, rather than chasing our tail from the outset
Took me quite a while to find out what's what with KK
It’s like Kajiji or Craigslist at the QMJHL.
From the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada classified section :
http://qmjhl.simhl.net/news.php?team=5&article=7693
KK is looking to be moved….2012 draft picks 1994/95 born players or prospects are what we’re looking for…
phlbruins@yahoo.ca
Two questions:
1. I wonder if they’re geting any nibbles?
2. What happens if KK has no QMJHL team to play for? Can he go the the AHL then?
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 7, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder
if this is from KK or from the Isles. The Isles would kind of make more sense (though I’m not sure what their reasoning would be). But if this is from KK, well then to me it’s a big step back in the maturation that seemed to take place last year.
That is hilarious
it’s kind of hilarious that teams are using pubic web pages
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Shanny's got our back
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 6, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
anybody miss Colin Campbell?
don’t let the door hit your ass too hard on the way out, buddy
by Cary K on Oct 6, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Only because he’s ready to stick the knife in it. Another former Rag in charge…….
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
We don't need no water let Nassau County burn
Burn motherf******s burn
by FireGarthSnow on Oct 6, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Moulson and Parenteau are at their peak ages
I wouldn’t be any more surprised to see Moulson score 23 goals than I would to see him score 35. It’s not a knock on him — he’s been remarkably consistent (and this after Tavares really weighed him down some during the long winter of JT’s rookie year). It’s just hard to keep that level up. You need things to go right. What if he doesn’t do 82 games again?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
@mordred
Nino doesn’t NEED to be on the 1st line or 2nd line. Right now playing on the 3rd line wouldn’t hurt his development. He will get his minutes and who knows, he might get some playing time on the PP as the season goes.
I do not see Moulson and JT force feeding his last 4 goals to get him to 20.
I seriously can’t believe you find this to be such a big deal.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
If this is how it works can they "force-feed" him a goal everynight?
Isn’t that how it works with playmakers and goal scorers? Its a bad thing that PA was able to convert these passes and it’s a bad thing that JT “force-fed” him goals?
by MatthewM11 on Oct 6, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I will explain
The reason why Parenteau even had a chance to go on the 1st line is becasue Okposo got hurt last season in training camp.
2 seasons ago we were all talking about Moulson-JT-Okposo and how it sucked that Gordon broke up the line 1/2 way through the season wich started all 3 of them going into a slump. Until at the end of the season they reunited the line.
Parenteau is at best an OK 2nd line wingman that brings nothing to the table. That line needs a power foraward. If he didn’t score that magical 20th goal which as I said was force fed him nobody would want him still as a 1st line player. He was a stop gap measure for 1 season.
Be honest if he only scored 16 goals would anyone really want him on the 1st line?
And yes MatthewM11 I know you like his game. I respect that opinion I just do not agree with it. Bur most fans see that magical #20 and they think he must be good when if they played with lesser players he might have only scored 12-15 at most.
lol, power forward.
First of all, everyone has their own conceptions of “power forward.” But when they explain what they are, they find that….well there’s no such thing as what people think of as a power forward any more (If you use stats to find them you get odd results like Blake Comeau, Power forward). No line needs a power forward and the best player any line can use is a scorer who can play defense. It doesn’t matter how they accomplish those tasks.
Parenteau is at best an OK 2nd line wingman that brings nothing to the table. That line needs a power foraward. If he didn’t score that magical 20th goal which as I said was force fed him nobody would want him still as a 1st line player. He was a stop gap measure for 1 season.
He wasn’t force fed. He played on their line. He had 33 helpers, so if anything he fed more than he scored.
Moreover, Parenteau had 55 points, which was tied for 75th in the league last year. There are 30 teams who play 3 players on their top line – meaning the top 90 players in points are “first liners”. Guess what, he’s there!
Now let’s get this straight – Parenteau is not necessarily the best person to be on the top line. I doubt anyone disagrees with this. But he wasn’t a problem last year (of note, he’s scored more goals in a season than Okposo ever has) and it’s unclear that Nino would put up better numbers.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Oh, how much do I rec thee
Let me count the ways.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Ive already answered you regarding the 20 goals
Its an arbitrary number and when you account for luck (posts, excellent saves etc.) you can add or subtract about 4 goals from any players totals. With 16 goals I would still think he did a good job last year. Let me ask you this: Isn’t a playmaking center’s job to force-feed his wingers goals?
Its not really about whether I like him or not, it’s about what the numbers say, and not just his 20 goals. I’ve said this before, but no one is arguing he is Guy LeFluer, just the best option we have right now on JT’s right side. I think it’s very optimistic to think Nino could do a better job as a rookie.
Read my whole post
And yes MatthewM11 I know you like his game. I respect that opinion I just do not agree with it. Bur most fans see that magical #20 and they think he must be good when if they played with lesser players he might have only scored 12-15 at most.
JT said it in an interview
The game after the Islanders were officialy eliminated . They asked him what were his goals for the rest of the year and about reaching 30 goals.
“It is more important for him, (meaning PA), to score 20 than for me to get to 30.”
Starting with that game you could see Moulson and JT were looking for PA first. Also JT and Moulson slowed down and PA got his last 4 or 5 goals. Once PA got to 20 they started playing like they were prior. If not JT probably would have gotten 32 and Moulson would have reached 35.
I still don't get how this is a bad thing
All you are saying to me is that JT is a great playmaker and PA is a great finisher and that they have excellent chemistry together. These are not arguments that hurt my opinion of either, or will convince me that the line should be broken up. If this was truly the case, why doesn’t JT force-feed PA all year? That’s his job, afterall.
Not what I am getting at
A play should come naturally. Not looking always for 1 player during a game. Like a Quarterback in pro football must look at the whole field not target only 1 WR.
That was what was happening Both JT and Moulson always looked for PA first not what was the best play to get him to 20.
and PA is a great finisher
Do not make me laugh Moulson is a very good finisher not great VERY GOOD and PA is not even near him. He is an OK finisher Average maybe a little better.
You don't know what you are talking about
Your whole argument against PAP is that he was “force-fed” his last 4 goals based on an interview JT gave. JT also said he wanted Moulson to get to 30 so you can’t argue he was only targeting Parenteau. Either way if Tavares was able to “force-feed” either goals its highly impressive. Few playmakers are that talented and it only makes Patenteau that much more impressive that he was able to convert those plays. Even if Patenteau was force-fed his last 4 how do you account for all his other goals and all his assists? You have to give Parenteau credit for Moulson and Tavares’s goal scoring. 4 goals one way or the other shouldn’t change anyone’s
opinion of Parenteau.
I said that if Parenteau was force-fed his goals, as you state, than he is a great finisher, in other words it is still a skill to convert passes into goals.
Moulson was at 29 goals
He only needed 1 more goal to reach 30. Big difference. he was going to get there anyway and no JT didn’t even mention Moulson during that interview about goals for the rest of the season.
Did Tavares assist on all four of those goals and how exactly where they scored?
We would need to go to the tape to really determine if he was force-fed those goals
You remember Derek King?
He was a little bit above average shooter. Nothing special just good. As far as I am concerned better than PAP.
But what made his great few seasons was Pierre Tourg. Pierre would make the goalie look stupid with his puck handling and then at the last second when the gaolie is looking the other way make a quick pass to King and basically king had an open net.
Pierre made Kings career years once Pierre was gone King never came close to those numbers again.
That is where I put PAP in that category but much lessor quality.
I don't think that is a bad comparision, although I would disagree that PAP is "much lessor quality"
Don’t forget King played during one the highest scoring eras in hockey, so you can’t compare their stats without accounting for this.
King bennefitted from having a great playmaker on his line in Turgeon. No one ever claimed King was a star player, and I’ve never seen that claim made about Parenteau. Just because he benefitted from Turgeon doesn’t make him a bad player though. I have always said PAP is a good option right now who benefits from the ice-time, PP time and linemates he has. A good center can’t make just anyone score, if that was the case you might as well put Gillies on the first line.
You keep talking about goals and I keep asking you how you account for PA’s assists if he is such a poor player. Frankly though I am tired of this debate. I enjoy debating about players with other fans, but it is frustrating when the other person isn’t using stats and you keep bringing up the same point, that he was “force -fed” his final four goals. Are we even sure that Tavares assisted on those last four goals? How were they scored? Where was he, and who were they playing against? I’d need to see actual tape of the goals to see if he was force-fed these goals. For all I know some of them could of been unassisted.
P.A. is an excellent stick handler and skater too.
PA is a great option for that line because of his puck skills and skating. He’s not fast but he’s very agile and quick. That with his great hands allows him to fit in well on a line where all 3 guys have good hands. They get the puck and they keep it for a while, often generating scoring chances. That’s why PA is good. Look – we’d love to have an all-star team but just because he isn’t an all-star doesn’t mean he isn’t helping the Isles win games. He’s a good hockey player.
by TMS on Oct 6, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I see Parenteau as a good fit on that line for the same reasons, they do a good job of maintaining puck possesion in the offensive and move the puck around to create scoring chances, whereas FnGO seems better adapted to creating scoring chances using there speed to create odd man rushes breaking into the offensive zone and making high speed passing plays. The JT line will cycle until finding a scoring chance, playing a much more deliberate, patient game.
Why Does Nino have to be on the first or second line?
Boston used Tyler Seguin on the 4th line for much of the year last year because rookies coming out of junior are often a liability defensivley and they wanted to ease him into the pro-game, not throw him into the deep end to see if he sinks or swims. Most teams ease their rookies in. Its very naive to think Nino would be a better defensive forward than PAP. Dom already replied to you in a different thread about PAP being at least average defensivley. PAP can also be very physical, if you don’t believe me look at numbers from juniors and the AHL. Matt Moulson could very well regress this year, I would say it is more likely than him scoring 30 goals again this year, although with two great what I call playmakers and you call “force-feeders” in Tavares and Parenteau on his line its certainly possible. And that brings me to my final point. You are the only fan I’ve ever seen critisize a first line wing for converting passes from his playmaking center for goals. What about all the goals Parenteau “force-fed” Tavares and Moulson?
by MatthewM11 on Oct 6, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I also don't understand why people think Nino needs to be on the 1st line. Unless he's just a terrible overall hockey
player who can’t do anything but finish. Then he’s worthless unless he has someone to feed him the puck in scoring areas. I hope he’s not that one dimensional.
by TMS on Oct 6, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm most curious about how Bailley does.
I wonder what having a vet like Rolston on his line would do for him. I personally think that someone that drives to the net is best for that line, but Rolston does bring some savvy leadership and mucho experience to that line
I also wonder why he doesn’t shoot more. The kid seems to have a pretty good shot.
by Empire39 on Oct 6, 2011 9:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
RW Chutes and Ladders
It appears that last year once Capuano stabilized the line combos the team really took steps forward. Those combos haven’t been set in stone, and will change in some game situations, but in hockey, familiarity breeds productivity.
We are all familiar with the top two combos, and two thirds of the third. This year will probably be some shuffling, and most likely it will happen in the first 6 weeks, and mostly on RW.
The first three line LW-C combos will be static. A) Moulson-Tavares, B) Grabner-Nielsen, C) Comeau-Bailey.
Then the fun begins:
Parentau: Starts with the A, but would probably help C be more productive as a whole. Best fit on C to fix +/-.
Okposo: FNGO is awesome. But Kyle needs to score more, and A could use a puck possession specialist as neither has burning speed. I think Kyle fits in with A best.
Rolston: At first, he may be the consistent RW needed by C. If this doesn’t work Cappy is not going to invest a lot in a one year vet. I see him moving to the fourth line if he doesn’t help the third.
Strome: You’d like to think that if he’s going to get 9 games he’s going to get them in a top six role. I don’t think that happens. He’ll get the same opportunity that Nino got last year. Replace Weight and Grabner with Reasoner and Martin. He might see some PP time, but I think his audition is about getting a few minutes and better understanding what he needs to work on in junior. Unless of course he can turn that into 4 goals . Then who knows.
Nino: Probably earned a ticket to Portland. Jeez… he’s only 19. I don’t know how long they can keep him on the IR without sending him back. If he does get games in NY, or if he sticks in NY then he’ll start with Reasoner and work his way up. I can definitely see him filling the hole on B next year… but he’d still have to start in a fourth or third line role with a responsible center.
Ullstrom: Probably the most deserving prospect to get a shot. Again, on the chutes and ladders board he starts in BPT, moves up to a spot with Reasoner and then maybe evolves into that piece that makes PAP expendable next year. That’s not going to be easy to do.
Haley: He will definitely get game time this year. His ceiling seems to be the lowest. Most likely will get some time with Reasoner, and maybe with Bailey… but he’ll get some time in BPT to help them get the season started.
Gillies: IR? Press box? Penguins, flyers, Rangers… We’ll see Gillies this year. Not as much as last year… but he’ll be around.
By December here’s how I see it playing out:
Moulson-tavares-Okposo
grabner-Nielsen-(Ullstrom, Nino, Strome)
Comeau-Bailey-Parentau
Martin-Reasoner-(Rolston, Haley)
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Looking at the roster on the side bar...
… do we really have 7 LWs and only two RWs, both of whom play on the same line?
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 6, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Can’t be right. I mean they have Bailey listed as a LW. The kid’s a C-if you’re not going to play him there then TRADE HIM!
by afrosupreme on Oct 6, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank God
Somebody actually sees what is going on here.
"The kid’s a C-if you’re not going to play him there then TRADE HIM!"
I agree totally, completely, wholeheartedly, decidedly, absolutely, steadfastly and any other ‘ly’ word with similar meaning you wanna put it in there.
I thought the kid is a natural center. That’s what they drafted him as. That’s where I thought his skill set fits best. I don’t get it. I guess I just don’t know nuthin.
I’m curious about how much all the jerking the kid back and forth is the GM’s direct input. He’s the one that coveted Bailey.
Let me ask you this
You have someone who you say should only play center and has been jerked around by being moved to wing. He hasn’t scored much, and he’s not a great defensive center. We have better options at center. Why do we need to construct the entire roster around Bailey’s feelings? Sit a better center or move him to wing to accomadate Bailey at a position he hasn’t earned? What other team would be interested in someone who can only play center, just not well?
You made my point
If the Islanders are not going to play him then trade him. No we can not be hampered by 1 player.
But I guarentee this player will come back and haunt us later. This is going to be us instead of the Panthers letting a young player go to easy.
I guess I have more faith in Bailey than you because I don't think he needs to be
babied and coddled in order to succeed. I think he will eventually find himself and his game. No point in trading him at this point.
We build a roster to maximize your assets.
Bailey is 21 and under team control for 3-4 more years (I think it’s 4). He’s cheap as hell. Those are assets that teams covet – cost effective at their finest.
If Bailey breaks out, the Isles are in tremendous shape, because he would be a cheap good player which is IMPORTANT FOR A TEAM THAT CANT SPEND MORE THAN THE FLOOR (I’ve been saying this for two years now, will you believe me now?).
Once again he’s 21. Peak age in hockey is around 26-27. He’s a bit far from there. He deserves some time.
Meanwhile, we don’t exactly have clear better centers – our #5 Center choices are Strome (could use an additional year in Juniors) and Trevor Frischman, a past-his-prime career AHLer. And no Ullstrom doesn’t come close to counting.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
I do not want to trade him
I want to keep him. What I ’ve been saying they keep on screwing around with this kid. He was rushed 2 seasons too early and they keep on switching between Center 52% and Wing 48%. If the Islanders are not going to give him a chance to grow trade him. Get something for him now before it is too late.
But I will tell you this is going to haunt us in the future.
There's little market for him.
But man you’re super dramatic about things you really don’t know too much about, huh?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
This is not rocket science
This is how the Islanders grabbed Moulson and Grabner. Teams give up too soon on players. Not all players are superstars or very good at young ages. The Islanders have done a great job researching finding late bloomers and signing them off the scrap heap.
Yes I am very spirited about it because I think he is a good kid that has been dicked around by Snow and Gordon because Snow had to prove he was a genious by having him start in the NHL.
No one is giving up on Bailey here.
He’s being given a center spot. What more do you want?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
See MatthewM11
This has been an ongoing issue between us.
My issue is that
You have this list of conditions that the team must do to accomodate Bailey or else should trade him. I am more optimistic about him than you are. I don’t think he has to be coddled to succeed. I would like to see him play well on the wing, it increases his value to us and to other teams.
by MatthewM11 on Oct 6, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look at the Redwings
They bring up players right. They would rather keep a young player too long down in the Juniors or AHL than bring them up too quick.
Most teams would have not had him start in the NHL until last season. He was never projected as an elite talent. Only Elite talent should ever play in the NHL at 18 years of age.
That was the Islanders fault
The Red Wings are a really good team with few roster spots
open for rookies. They also normally pick later in the first round and by and large those are players who are less ready.
not having to rush your prospects to the NHL is a luxury for teams who have drafted well for years and have depth
that was the Isles back in the day when Detriot rebuilt, using the Dynasty Isles as a model…believe me, Detriot put their kids in the NHL young back in the old days when Yzerman et all were teens and the team lacked depth. Now things have gone full circle.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
wait a minute.
I thought this whole argument was because someone said Bailey was playing the wing and not center. Isn’t that what’s written up there? If he is getting a center spot, then there’s no argument.
As long as they leave him there.
no rule you can discuss sub-aspects
but for the record, if Bailey is not adequate at centre, he moves back to left wing…
i for one – all things being considered – do not recall a lot of ppl arguing that Bailey sucked at left wing when he first came up, in fact, i think it was his play on left wing as an 18 & 19 year old that led many to think he would fulfull his promise…as an eventual centre…most centres who start young generally are weened into the league via wing first. I would agree that Bailey sucked on the off wing, but then again, most kids are better @ their natural wing, not all can play off wing…certainly, wing is easier to play then centre.
finally, i do agree players can be ruined by rushing them to NHL @ too young an age. The NHL history books are full of such documented cases at every position. Some of it is between the ears, some of it is injuries from playing against men when one was still in a boys body…injuries that will last the rest of one’s life, beyond the hockey career.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Boy, maybe you're a little hard...
on the guy (or gal), no?
One of my failings
I lack patience sometimes, especially when I’m tired.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You're right he hasn't earned it
He was rushed way too soon. Now the Islanders have to keep him on the big club or lose him to waivers. If they would have let him play in the Juniors for 1 or 2 seasons then the AHL is an option without waivers.
But who screwed up on that SNOW
Rushed, yes.
But not because Snow “had to prove he was a genius”, because there was very little star power after the 2008 draft. They went through a mass exodus in 2007, and an unpopular coaching change. This was a fresh beginning, and as has been proven over the past 4 years, they have no attraction for quality UFAs.
It was a bad decision(IMHO) but there were pros and cons… and Bailey will come out of htis okay… maybe even faster than he would have if they left him in juniors.. there’s no way of knowing.
PROS
Solid NHL coaching, not only from staff but real line NHL players… both teammates and opponents. He learns every day.
NHL Salary rate.
He has proven that he is NHL worthy. That is a confidence thing he won’t have to overcome…
CONS
He missed a great opportunity to lead his team to the Memorial Cup.
He missed at least one WJC opportunity.
He missed a year of junior leadership, and a year of AHL big minute roles.
He missed the stardom that comes with being a canadian junior star… and is missed by being a NY Islander first round draft pick.
Bailey is going to be a very good NHL player. He needs to get himself to where ever he was the first 6 games last year. That may be mental, or it may be physical, but he has it in him… and he’s young enough to find it again.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
by JPinVA on Oct 6, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless
The Islanders keep on switching him from Center and Wing and bewtween line mates.
Then he will never live up to his potential on this team.
Why?
Most young players are moved from wing to center and change linemates often and still reach their potential.
Not all players respond to that
I guess Bailey is one of them
So was Schremp, how did that work out for him?
Anyway, how do we know Bailey is one of those players? He really hasn’t seen enough time there to know for sure, and I thought he looked good on the wing at times. It should be an easy adjustment.
Schremp is not a good player.
Not sure why except that he’s small and slow – a bad combination – but even his amazing hands didn’t produce that much in the NHL.
by TMS on Oct 6, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are arguing that the Islanders must play Bailey at center or TRADE HIM IMMEDIATELY
Yet once they do so he will come back to haunt them? How in the hell do these two lines of thought match up?
How about, if he’s still got so much potential, they use him as a competent forward at whichever position they need, and then he gets to haunt other teams in an Islanders sweater?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 6, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For as much as I have been critical of Bailey
I see no need to even consider trading him. He won’t get us that mythical “top 4” defenseman I keep hearing so much about but am not sure really exists. No team would consider trading even a bottom pairing defender for Bailey. He is mire valuable to us anyway than to another team. He isn’t costing us a lot of money and right now have room on the roster for him. He is not yet at the point I have given up hope he can better.
We don't know that things would be different if we were patient with him
Guess what-players continue to devolop after they make the NHL, and Bailey has seen ample ice-time. The islanders were a bad team when Bailey was a rookie so they weren’t worried about the liability he brought to the team with his inexperience. Rushing prospects in the NHL doesn’t usually have a negative effect on them. I really don’t think it would of made that big of a difference.
I want to be clear in saying that I don’t dislike Bailey nor do I think he won’t one day be a good player. My issue has always been that you bash PA, ignoring all the statistical evidence showing you are incorrect, yet you make every concession for Bailey’s struggles. Its fine to have favorite players, but don’t ignore facts and reason about them.
Here is my problem with PA
He was given the 1st line duty because Okposo got hurt last season. He played well. Not great but OK. He was a good stop gap player.
But now he is not needed. He is a lesser quality Comeau. Perimeter player. Too many of those players on the team. Nino is more of a power forward so is Okposo and that is what the 1st line needs.
That is why a line of Comeau-Bailey-PA will not work. Too many perimeter players no one that does the dirty work. That is why 1 of the 3 should have been traded before the season started for a defensmen that this team desperately needs. Which is my biggest problem with adding Reasoner, Rolston and now Pandolfo. Small perimeter forwards.
If it is a choice bewteen Comeau Bailey or Parenteau I would rather trade the 28 year old player than the younger players.
Perimeter player?
I thought PA’s real strength was his play down low in the offensive zone, that whole line’s strength was. PA isn’t small (he’s short but stocky) nor is he soft. What makes that line great is how they cycle and move the puck in the offensive zone. I saw Parenteau show no fear going to the dirty areas of the ice. I see Nino as more of a north-south player who I think ultimately will work better with Nielsen and Grabner. You need someone adept at being able to move the puck through traffic and PA could do that. Nino might fit in well there too but I still like him better with FnGO
Marty Reasoner wasn’t brought in for his offensive skill and has nothing to do with Parenteau. His a defensive forward first and foremost.
Not getting my point
The Islanders for too many years have had a very small team. They have tried and what doesn’t work is only have skilled small players. That is why we always lose to the bigger teams in our division. Unless you have a balanced team you will not win in the NHL. The Islanders need size and the Islanders need players who will bang the net. Right now the only player on this team that fits the banger role is Okposo. Now that Nino is here we have 2 players. Not even going to start about a 4th line.
What I am not getting?
Your post was mostly about certain players being perimeter players, which I disagreed with. You only use the word “small” once. I don’t disagree adding size would be helpfull, but only as long as we don’t sacrifice speed and skill. Anyway, Nino is closer in the mold of a skilled player than he is a banger or grinder at this point. Okposo isn’t exactly Cam Neely either, and his style seemed to be that of a north-south sniper- he seems to score with his wrist shot in the slot more than through redirections or tap-ins. He has even been used on the point in the PP, not somewhere you put someone who is known for banging the net. In fact you would have an easier time IMO arguing that KO is a perimeter player than PAP, although
neither truly are.
Size alone is not the answer for this team. Size with skill will help, and with Mayfield, Kabanov, Lee, Nelson, Wishart, Pedan, Ulsstrom etc. we have some big guys coming up. It would be wrong to say Garth is not working to make this a bigger team. For now we just have to hope that it won’t be too much of an issue, and I am confident it won’t be.
Don't agree. The problem is that they didn't have good enough players - nothing to do with
size. Schremp wasn’t a good player. Matt Duchene is a good player. Swap Schremp for Duchene and your team is better but no bigger. Swap any player for a better player and your team is better. That’s the key. PA is a good player. Not great but good. Does a lot of things well. Very good puck possession guy. We’d love to have all great players but those guys are all locked up. We got a good player in PA. It would be foolish not to make use of him.
Trade for whom?
And I wouldn’t want to trade for a forward who can only play center yet hasn’t scored much or doesn’t play great defensive hockey? Where in the hell do you play someone like that? As a center Bailey fits in nowhere
My main point ...
is not really get rid of him if he’s not gonna play center, but that we don’t yet know what he is. If you believe like many that he was thrown into the fire too soon, then surely being jerked back and forth like that had to make it even harder for him to devleop. I agree that guys who can play at both center and wing are an asset, but for a kid that young who obviously the GM thought was skilled enough to really go after him, I think it would have been best to leave at center, period. They weren’t going on playoff run anyway. The way he’s been handled so far, I think they actually set him up to fail, rather than give him the best chance to succeed. And I definitely agree with the above that he has ‘come back to haunt you’ written all over him.
Rosters change every year and players are constantly moved around and switched from center to wing
I just don’t get what makes Bailey special. Its the nature of the NHL today that rosters are in a state of flux every year and players are moved around to accomodate new players
Bob Bourne & John Tonelli started as centres, were moved to left wing
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
what? strongly disagree with you on this one
Centre is a much, much harder position to play with far greater responsibilities…
if you can play centre, you sure as heck can play wing.
if you can’t play wing, your highly unlikely to be worth anything at centre.
In juniors, most of the best players do play centre. that is why @ NHL level, so many enter league as centres but are not capable of playing centre @ NHL level.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure ...
“special” is the right word for the point I’m trying to make.
I think it’s more that he was 18 when they threw him right into mix up here . 18 is really young, and that made his situation DIFFERENT (rather than special), and once they made that decision I think it would have been better to keep in him one spot, his natural center ice spot, even if he struggled. But they moved him back and forth a couple of times, THEN decided to send him down. I think if they decided he wasn’t ready fine, send him down right away as a center – which is waht he drafted as – and let him develop there as a center. I dunno, certainly I could be wrong about this, but that’s been my take all along.
18
Every year we see 18 year olds play NHL hockey. Most of the 18 year old forwards played center in junior, many are moved to the wing permanently, once making the NHL. For others its a temorary thing, and will often change from game to game and in some cases shift to shift. I would guess it happens more often than not that a young center spends significant time on wing. Even many great players, from Trottier, Fleury, Lemieux, Zetterberg, Malkin have spent time on the wing.
I have never the “he’s been jerked around by the team” argument for a player before. Typically when a player struggles he will be used on different lines at different positions. Here’s the thing- he struggled before he was ever moved to wing. That is what caused him to be moved in the first place.
I have hope that Bailey will break out this year. He might not. Not all draft picks pan out. That doesn’t mean it’s always the team’s fault (aside from drafting that player in the first place) In most cases the player just wasn’t as good as everyone hoped. We can speculate all we want as to why Bailey has struggled, but I prefer this theory: The NHL is a very diffacult league and the vast majority of players drafted don’t reach there potential.
by MatthewM11 on Oct 6, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You make some damn good...
points.
I would only counter with, every kid is different and it’s just possible that the way Bailey was handled may not have been the best way for him. We agree about having hope for him this year. If you read comments by me all along I’ve had faith In the kid regardless of his struggles. I think he’s gonna be a solid and complete player.
And I must admit, I don’t recall Trottier spending any serious time on the wing, but I guess I just forgot that. And you’re certainly right that the really good players can be productive in either slot, at least once they’ve developed.
Thanks
I agree everyone is different, and it might be something Bailey isn’t able to adapt to. I hope he can because it makes him more versatile and that will be important down the road when guys like Strome and Nelson compete for permanent spots.
I am pretty sure Trottier did spend some time on the wing but I could be wrong. I think he did not only as an Islander earlier in his career but also as a Penguin. I’ll see if I can find out for sure. I know he was often listed as an F as opposed to a C on the roster suggesting some positional flexibility, although that isn’t proof of anything
Pittsburgh wouldn't be a good example
Trotts was their primarily to take faceoffs, provide veteran leadership. he often took faceoffs and left ice.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I had recently watched an old 'burgh game on hulu and thought I remembered
seeing him play wing, but that wouldn’t really make much sense.
wouldn't be a stretch at all at that stage of his career
he was there primarily for faceoffs, wouldn’t be expected to play centre like he did for Isles, offensively or defensively so it wouldn’t be a shocker at all, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a centre…could even help mentor a younger centre from the left wing, which is much easier to play defensively
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 7, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't try both ways to be sure. Teams have needs and they often need to move centers
to the wing to meet those needs. I think its a bit crazy to suggest that this will ruin someone’s development. I just don’t see it. Bailey will become what he always was going to become. I just don’t buy that some switching positions in his age 18,19 and 20 seasons are going to derail his development.
Oh boy
I’m sorry I opened this can of worms guys. I thought the all caps would get the sarcasm through. Should have used the font.
So Stupid! Idiot!
I'm pretty sure noone's ....
saying trade him. I know I’m not.
But the people really have strong feelings about how he’s been handled.
It’s a good discussion I think, while we’re pacing waiting for the freakin games to start already.
Heh, technically yes
The lack of natural RW being a part of our annual conundrum.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You do realize they're on the same line again right?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
also
I think they want Nino up here, they’ll give him at least 9 games to fiind out once he’s healthy I’m pretty sure
Strome is headed back soon
am sure they want Moulson-JT-Nino, FNGO as the top 2 lines
and room for creativity after that – but with Comeau & Bailey separated
I could see a lot of that happening
RW is certainly the hole and the reason for us expecting shuffling.
I’ve wondered all summer how Parenteau with JB/BC would go. Not because I expect it now, but because I figure if PAP is around beyond this year they will want to try him in other roles. Putting Nino in his spot so early in camp seemed like a signal of their desire.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
PAP TRAP
With four forwards (Ullstrom, Nino, Strome, Kabanov) on course for NHL exposure within the next two years, Parenteau and Comeau seem to be the most expendable. That assumption is made based on contract length.
Both are skilled, and if 2011-12 has both maintain their trajectory 2012-13 will have them outside the Islander’s budget. If either of them get to 30 goals it would be great, but they’d also be looking in the $4M range… and I just don’t see that happening. Not when any of the above four come with base salaries under $1M and cap hits close to $2M.
I’d look for both of them to be shopped at the deadline unless injuries force the Islanders’ hand.
I think a healthy Kyle gets every opportunity to get back on track as a top line minute player. He should be ready at this point of his career… much more than he was earlier, and he’ll have real top line support this time.
Nino would add NET PRESENCE, and general BSD to the FNG…yeah.. you know me!
Unlike Mr. K, I think they will try to rekindle the magic Comeau and Bailey had at the beginning of 2010-11.. and to help that along Rolston, Ullstrom, and eventually PAP will get that slot… but only for this year. Next year Bailey will probably be the VET teaching Ullstrom (LW) and Strome(RW) in a high potential third to second line dynamic.
If Comeau could help fix the D, I think it has to be done… and with the forwards they have to fill a third line role you’d have to say that this might be the time to pull the trigger. (and that is from a Comeau fan)
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Errr he was 2/8 last year.
Hardly really good at shootouts.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
He had that rep from when he was a Rag.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 6, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
who are we going to use in shootouts
could be a major weakness
the one thing RSH was good at
of course Frans is good at everything – that helps
PAP probably better then he did last year at this as well
2/8 is not much of a sample size
man you love your stats…
I hope we dont find out for a while- Ive got a real urge for some regulation wins ;)
But Im not worried about it- we have guys I trust (MM, JT, PAP, KO) to give it a go, and we have our secret weapon in Fransie! :)
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 7, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
i think you may be right...
it’s typical to see lines lose it’s chemistry after a while and mixing them up is good to keep the juices flowing. i think grabner-nielsen-strome would be a fun line to watch. it’s eventually going to happen that KO will be a 1st line guy. he has the skill. who knows? maybe PAP can spark bailey and keep comeau pushing to his full potential. the skill is there in the forwards. i have no worries when it comes to scoring or defensive backchecking.
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
I gotta disagree
In no way do I see Ullstrom playing on the second line. I can see 4th and possibly 3rd line roles for him, but that’s all. That not to say I don’t like the kid.
If everyone’s healthy…ok never mind, that’s nonsense talk.
I don’t think there’s much chance of Nino getting sent to the minors. I only see that happening if somebody, namely Strome, does much better than expected and then management decides Nino’s better served in juniors due to the existing circumstances. I don’t honestly see than happening though. I agree, Strome’s only getting his nine games and then is sent down.
I also think a net crasher would be good for Bails and Comeau’s, like Martin. It would force Rolston to the 4th line with Read and Pand/whoever. I think that makes for a stout defensive 4th line.
by Empire39 on Oct 6, 2011 10:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
FWD PTS
Ullstrom: Ullstrom spent the beginning of the year with capuano in BPT. He was converted from a wing to FIRST LINE CENTER in his first year of professional North American hockey. I really think a lot of people under rate his potential because he wasn’t a first round draft pick. Though, I probably over-rate him… his past performance leads me to believe that he is more advanced as a professional than the other forward prospects… and Grabner and Frans could use some size, net presense and corner one-on-one skill.
Nino: can not be sent to the AHL. It’s the NHL or junior. If he sticks around, replace Ullstrom’s name with his.
Strome: It would take a miracle for them to start his ELC this year. There’s just too much depth to afford him the TOI to make it a valuable decision. I really hope the organization has evolved into one which can wait until they have roster flexibility with their prospects. That goes for Strome and Nino.
Martin: IMHO should be in BPT to start the season. But he did an incredible job filling a role for Capuano last year. He might even get that RW spot with Bailey and Comeau. Injuries will dictate his role this year.
BTW: It’s funny that you see a clear distinction of FNGO as the “second line”. I don’t think there was a clear TOI distinction last year. And scoring wise… adding PAP to B&C would give them a higher aggregate total(just guessin’, too lazy to actually do the math). The Islanders will be balanced from 2-4 this year. More than any year since the mid 90’s.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Re: Ullstrom
Ullstrom wasn’t a first because he was drafted overage iirc. And until he lights up the AHL, I’ll pass.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
He was 19
but only by a month. So he was eligible for the 2007 draft, but had done little in the 07-08 SEL season. I don’t know if they have to register for the draft, or if they are qualified. Hs 2008-09 numbers were much better, but it still only put him in the fourth round radar of NHL GMs.
Where a guy is drafted doesn’t mean squat except that teams have speculated their worth. Look at what Matt Martin did in his draft year. If he was drafted in 2009 he most likely goes in the second round. He may not be Wayne Gretzky but he has been on a 2nd rounder’s career path more than a 6th rounder’s.
I’d say that Ullstrom is following a fourth round tragectory that puts him in the NHL this year, and if he can pull his weight he goes FT NHL next year.
He won’t get a chance to “light up” th AHL. Last year he was on a severly under-talented team, and this year he should be needed in the NHL way before he can put up solid “valid sample size” numbers. That’s what happens withguys who ahve all the tools… they don’t get to be AAAA guys… like junior tambellini.
That’s the way I see it anyway.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
BP is a much, much improved team this year
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look @ BP's overall lineup Cary: much better on paper to start this year than last year
Goal: Poulin, Nilsson, Koskinen
Defense:
DeHaan – Donovan
Ness – Katic
Olsen – Klementyev
Ullstrom is on of many…don’t forget, McNeilly and Wallace will be there as well. Haley, Dibo, Rahk, Cizikas…to name a few. A couple like Rahk are injured but they’ll be back. BP is much better this year on paper to open the season
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 6, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am so happy for them
Theyve been so injured and thin- I hope they have a great season.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 7, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
a little ot but Eric Nystrom was placed on waivers...should we claim him?
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
by DarthDoyle on Oct 6, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Better than effin Jay Pandolfo!!!!
But Bobby made it clear last year that being on the Islanders would not be good for Eric. Love to have him though.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
when did he say that?
But yea he would be a lot better than Pandolfo and just imagine having a second gen dynasty era player
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
by DarthDoyle on Oct 6, 2011 11:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
After Eric signed with the Wild.
Before the signing there was some speculation that he wold wind up an Islander. In an interview Bobby said that he really didn’t need the pressure of playing on LI. I’m not sure if it was on the air, or with CB… but it was clear that he knew living up to the 23 on the rafters would be tough… and unjustly so.
If I wasn’t so damn lazy… and actually have work to do… I’d look for it.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Aaaahhhh
I understand how trying to live up to his father on the island could be tough but I think that enough people would understand that he isn’t Bobby, he’s Eric. Personally I would love to see him play on the island
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
by DarthDoyle on Oct 6, 2011 11:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know he isn't actually related...
… but since Trevor Gillies shares the same surname as Clark, that almost counts as having a 2nd generation dynasty era player.
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
if you're going down that road
Justin Bourne has unofficially given Garth and Wang his children with Brianna Gillies (Clark’s daughter)
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
by DarthDoyle on Oct 6, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good funny
I extend this offer to the Islanders: We will sell you the breeding rights. All you have to do is pay for the wedding, and we’ll give you the guaranteed rights to our first-born son, breeding the styles of two Islanders Hall of Famers, restoring the Island to its rightful place of glory. The potential is huge. He could be Okposo’s linemate after a Chelios-esque 18-year career. He could be draft eligible while Ricky is still under contract. We’re building something here!
he he
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 7, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Colton Gillies is Clark's nephew...
…and he played on the Wild with Eric Nystrom last year. If Justin Bourne had made it to the NHL and we drafted Zach Parise…
Does Gary Howatt have any children that can skate?
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Bailey is really the only "big" question mark here. Everyone else should be fairly dependable in their roles.
Here’s to hoping that Bailey is reformed! He showed glimpses in the pre-season of stepping up, let’s hope he finally realizes that those contract negotiation problems over “little” money was because he was bad last year and now he needs to prove himself a better hockey player.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Why the rush
I don’t understand the sentiment here to rush Nino to the top line. Papineau over the course of last season built a solid chemistry with Mouson and Tavares. Another year will allow it to continue to build. Let the boy continue getting his feet wet on a third or fourth line. If his development accelerates and-or Papineau slumps, then a change can be made. Otherwise, with a fast start for the TEAM essential for all practical purposes, it is better to go with the familiar top two lines and allow everything else to fall into place behind them.
...Papineau?
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Oct 6, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
LOL!!!
Not the first person to do that.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 6, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I know!
I think we’ve talked about this before, but it use to confound me how my dad could look at a current player but (accidentally) speak the name of a guy who wore that number 10-20 years ago.
But now that I’ve been through a few generations of hockey, I get it. Oh, how I get it.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Dreams and impatience, I reckon
I think people go off what Nino should/hope one day be — and of course the Isles tried him there in early camp — so they want it now, now, now.
Also, we’re in somewhat of an info vacuum, with the preseason games and comments here and there from the team being the only “data” anyone has to go on.
Oh, and because PAP is chronically underappreciated. I hope Nino is one day 1st-line-worthy, but I have major doubts that he should go there now.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Somebody who has two arms and two legs.
Other than that, no clue. Can’t even confirm if the person will have a living heartbeat.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
So basically
Not RDP? Or are you including reconstructed cyborg body parts?
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think its most likely going top be DP seeing as he and montoya have looked the best during the preseason
loving the tears of fallen leaf fans...JT IS OURS
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him...we have the technology
Rickgeny Poultoya
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Kind of like Voltron
But we have to make sure to include the right parts of each goalie, otherwise Rickgeny Poultoya could end up with RDP’s hips, Poulin’s knee caps, Montoya’s meniscus, and Nabakov’s attitude. Then where would we be?!
by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 6, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be the evil version
Like Bizarro or Spock with the goatee.
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Flexo
to Bender…..and you can bite my shiny metal $#%
by neologizer on Oct 6, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would make me attracted to the right leg
Princess Allura, baby.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Maybe I missed the reason ..
but how come the puck drops at 8 on Saturday and not 7?
Pomp and circumstance?
Alternatively: To bait my wife into thinking we’re going out on a Saturday night, only to deliver the crushing reality that HOCKEY’S BACK, BABY.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
To Make Sure Yom Kippur's over?
I mean I doubt it, but it is nice for those of us who are somewhat observant.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LIRR
people need extra time to walk from the stuck switching stations
This is a joke right?
No such thing as LIRR when it comes to the Isles. Part of the reason why we don’t fill up.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
I think that is why, actually.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 6, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Alternate Captains named According to Staple.
#Isles alternate captains: Brian Rolston, Kyle Okposo, Steve Staios, John Tavares. 2 at home, 2 on road.
This prompts two questions:
1. Do you really need different Alternate Captains on the road from at home.
and
2. ROLSTON AND STAIOS? REALLY?! REALLY?! Geez. If you want the extra 2 spots, why not give it to AMac and Frans?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Frans?
Frans goonish reputation precedes him
by neologizer on Oct 6, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
DO we take a chance on this?
Kevin Allen
kausatoday Kevin Allen
Eric Nystrom on waivers, and Woywitka goes to Rangers on waivers and MacLean goes to Winnipeg.
49 seconds ago
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
BComptonNHL Brian Compton
Staios on Travis Hamonic: “This kid’s gonna be a stud. He’s one of the up and coming great young defensemen in our league.” #Isles
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
He's already a stud.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 6, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I admire your enthusiasm
and never thought I’d be telling you about sample sizes and such, but
SAMPLE SIZE! bwahahaha
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 6, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is a full season really that small of a sample size though?
I mean, we are not talking about 15 games, are we? I’ve never seen a guy have a breakout year and heard “well, let’s give him a few more seasons to see if he regresses to his statistical mean” What’s an adequate sample size, half a decade?
Yes, half a decade
way to split the difference on calling a guy a “stud”. You’re right, he is now Shea Weber and Scott Stevens rolled into one.
I don’t doubt that he’s going to be very good, but to call him a stud now is a little much…he’s played 60 pro games. I think I prefer Staios’ “going to be a stud” over “is a stud”.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I said nothing about whether I thought he was a "stud"
in fact, I don’t even really use the term and think it works best when used by horse breeders and women/gay men.
I was just pointing out that I think a full season is a big sample size, although it’s really just semantics. When talking about a small sample size, its usually in relation to a full season, as in “sure Moulson had a great start to the season but it’s still too small a sample size to know that he will have a good season” I think that 62 games is enough to rule out statistical aberrations. 2 goals and 5 assists in 8 games doesn’t mean a guy will score 20 goals and fifty assists, but with 62 games we are not only aware of what he can do offensively but also can look at things like corsi numbers with relative confidence the numbers are reflective of his play. When you’ve played so few games that one bad game throws off your plus/minus or corsi numbers than yes, its too small a sample size. I think 62 games is enough.
Bigger picture wise, one abbreviated season isn’t a lot, so we still don’t know exactly what he is fully capable of.
Stud
goes back to garik’s original comment, which was what Keith brought up sample size in response to.
I know, but I was only adressing the point about sample size
Not about whether I think Hamonic is a good player or not. I see where Keith is coming from, and I think we were making slightly different points. My point is that sometimes a player has played so few games you can’t trust his stats, because one very good or very bad game could throw off everything and there isn’t enough information to make a reasonable, educated appraisal of who he is as a player. If Garik feels that Hamonic is already a “stud” (there we go with semantics again), that his numbers last season are indicative if stud status, then he has enough information to make his case. I think that Keith was talking more about Hamonic’s entire career potential and whether or not he will be a career stud and I agree that we don’t have enough information to kniw for sure.
When you say this...
I think a full season is a big sample size
To prove what though? I was saying it was too small a sample size to call Hamonic a “stud” right now. That’s all. Stud to me almost implies a lifetime achievement award. 60 games generally proves nothing. It is why MM, BC and PAP got one year contracts after their first good year.
I also think Garik would probably tell you that one year’s worth of corsi is still pretty unreliable. Like I said, I agree that he can be a stud, and do believe that is numbers will improve, but stranger things have happened than a guy having one good season and then falling off the earth right?
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
to me 'stud' means dominant - that or a guy who gets tons of girls - maybe that's what Staios meant
by TMS on Oct 6, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well Rolston in an interview called Pandalfo
A great Human, I wonder if that has anything to do with the Human Fund.
Left out "enough" from that sentance
my point was that it is big enough for reliable data, big enough so that a few games don’t throw the numbers all out of whack.
In my response to afrosupreme I conceded that we were probably making slightly different points, and admitted one season was not enough data for a player’s career. Its like, I’ll try my best to explain this with my limited math termonology: If you think of each of a player’s seasons as distinct statistical event and than a player’s whole career as another event, 60 games is enough data for a season but not a career. If you are arguing that Hamonic is a very good player right now, the way you would argue Jeff Skinner is a good player right now, you have data to go off of, enough to discount chance. Both still
could of peaked young, or could get injured, or whatever.
and that being said
If I was wrong about a season not being enough data for corsi or whatever else I am certainly no expert. I was thinking that defensive metrics would be more reliable with a sample size of 60 games than something like goals (especially in d-men, who score less) because there is so much more data. I would think aberrations would get corrected quicker. I am probably not making sense because I dont have the correct terminology so ill quite whili im ahead.
I get you
I just wouldn’t argue that Skinner is in a safety zone either. Remembering Hamonic’s season, he was good fo most of it and really turned it on at the end. So in my mind, he hit a bit of a hot streak toward the end there. Again, I think he will be great, but would need to see that replicated…just like Skinner, Grabner ec. Although I feel like Grabner has that one skill that distinctly stands out.
I just always remember Trent Hunter…there are guys out there who don’t repeat things…hell, even Selanne as great as he’s been never came close to his rookie season. Down trends happen, injuries happen…he’ll get there, but for “studom”, I need more.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
one year doesn't tell you much about anything other than promise
difference being with Hamonic is that until his shoulder injury thanks to a dirty hit from behind in the WJC, @ Junior level, he was a dominate, physical D, defensively, with pretty good, above average offense. He dominated the WHL, known as the most physical of the 3 Canadian Major Junior Leagues. What you look for is for him to continue his game @ the NHL level, if he can, and if he can’t, how he adapts to survive if at all, and what kind of NHL player he then will be. Hamonic has the size and strength. What he showed last year was that his game can/continues to transmit well to the NHL level…and I think even though he more than likely will hit a few bumps like any young player, scouting weighs heavily into his projection. I think MM, BC, and PAP are kind of apples and oranges comparisons though…more than enough reason to be reminded of Warren Young among others with these three after just the first good season each, the least of which, Junior history, age etc. I do think MM has proven something, Pap and BC have more to go. Hard to believe at one time Colliton was rated a head of Comeau on depth chart, but at least I can say I favoured Comeau.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 7, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What if....
2010-11 was actually far BELOW his mean and 2011-2012 will actually be his “Breakout Season”?
HMMMMMMMMM??
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 7, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
That was supposed to have "< Yoda voice >" in it
but the <> apparently cause probems.
STOP effin' messin' with my FnGO!!
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Oct 7, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
