2011-12 Islanders Preview: The Defense
by Dominik on Oct 4, 2011 6:30 AM EDT
in New York Islanders Previews
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The question of how Garth Snow addressed the defense this summer has been a hot topic in recent discussions at this site. That topic won't fully sort itself out in my eyes until the evidence of regular season games piles up.
But this particular preview post is focused on what the Islanders blueline has at the pro level now, how that might change over the course of 2011-12, where they have vulnerabilities, and where they are better-positioned than 2010-11.
The easiest, biggest, most obvious variable: Mark Streit is back. And Streit, well, he can play some Skynyrd.
2010-11
Goals Allowed: 258, 3.15/GP (27th) (10 empty-netters)
5-on-5: 176 (29th)
Right away those goal totals look damning, although the blame does not lie solely on the blueline. The goaltending's collective .902 save percentage ranked 23rd in the league, with Rick DiPietro, Mikko Koskinen and Nathan Lawson combining for 40 games of sub-.900 play. Up front, the Austro-Dane-Nigerian über line of Michael Grabner, Frans Nielsen and Kyle Okposo was the only forward line to reliably control play against any opposition.
Games Played
Perhaps the most symbolic factoid about last year's blueline is this: Radek Martinek and Jack Hillen were its most healthy members. (Well, technically Travis Hamonic was, but he wasn't called up until a quarter of the way in.)
| Injury Waiting to Happen | 2010-11 GP |
| Radek Martinek | 64 |
| Jack Hillen | 64 |
| Travis Hamonic | 62 |
| Andrew MacDonald | 60 |
| Bruno Gervais | 53 |
| Milan Jurcina | 46 |
| Mark Eaton | 34 |
| Dylan Reese | 27 |
| Ty Wishart | 20 |
| Mike Mottau | 20 |
| Mark Katic | 11 |
| ATO Guy A | 1 |
| ATO Guy B | 1 |
| ATO Guy C | 1 |
Strengths
Adding Streit to that mix should make a world of difference, possibly more significant than any other variable. Another 60-plus game season from young Hamonic should be even more impressive than his rookie year. Removing Gervais, less of Reese (presumably), more of Jurcina (one can hope) should all help.
If healthy, the top three of Streit, MacDonald and Hamonic represent a trio of defensemen who can get the upper hand in all three phases of the game. Put one adequate partner into that mix, and the Isles have a reliable top four.
And this is probably reaching, but if any of the trio of Aaron Ness, Matt Donovan or Calvin De Haan have even a semi-Hamonic-like evolution in Bridgeport, they could provide support during the second half.
Weaknesses
As is often mentioned here, Eaton, Mottau and MacDonald are coming off hip surgeries, which doesn't mean anything by itself -- new injuries are equally likely to occur -- but does make one worry of relapses. A setback to MacDonald would be much more significant than a setback to Mottau, whose effectiveness was already watered down before being shut down last season.
Eaton and especially Jurcina are quietly more effective than they're given credit for, but they are the type for whom everything must be just right, it seems, for them to be plus players. Jurcina is currently nursing a training camp groin injury.
Snow's run at Christian Ehrhoff would have slotted in a new guy at #4 or at least #5-6 with special powerplay duties, but it wasn't meant to be -- not without a Sabres-level overpayment, apparently. Ehrhoff was an interesting case because there wasn't another guy like him on the market (a market that almost didn't exist, with every marquee name signing before hitting July 1), and yet ... getting him to sign on carried some coniderable long-term risk. That may yet turn out to be a fortunate strikeout.
Meanwhile, would-be 7/8 guy Katic is already out long-term with a preseason shoulder injury.
A lot of observers, myself included, had hopes for Wishart after his steady play in the fourth quarter, backed up by positive possession stats. But he had a weak camp, was put through waivers, and represents an interesting study of stats vs. "somethin's off there" evaluation.
The topic of Wishart leads to the other weakness, or at least great vulnerability: How much is this team expecting from veteran Steve Staios? Staios' recent years have not been good, which is why he was in the training camp tryout bin this summer. After a camp of Garth Snow and Jack Capuano watching him closely, I can buy that he did enough to impress them on and off the ice. The concern is that this was under play-for-your-career conditions, and not the grind of an 82-game season that turns once-valued vets into shells of their younger selves.
Bottom Line
So much depends on injuries -- and injuries are inevitable on every NHL blueline, every season. Survival turns on who steps in and how well. In that department, the Islanders have a lot of wild cards, from the mix of dinged-up average veterans to the prospects who might provide a boost by the season's second half.
As with the goaltending, the Isles have some insurance if things go wrong, but the insurance itself carries questions, too.
Meanwhile, despite their health Martinek did not have a good year last season and Hillen had an awful first half before rebounding. Yet it's still tough to part with the familiar. Their departures could end up creating important opportunities, or it could end up eliciting a lot of "If only we'd have done X, Y and Z."
Kind of like the 2011-12 Islanders blueline overall.
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this is going to be fun
Basically we have 3 top 4 players ready to rock and 3 well if the stars align and the matrix is real players, who could play well.
Like everyone, I wish there were some other options or assurances available this offseason. Jack Hillen for me, should have stuck around, because he is a better depth player than Reese and could have easily taken a two way here and probably made the team, with any injury (ahem Jurcina) happening. Aside from that, the FA pool was nothing special, we made our annual run at a player not likely to come here. They will one day.
We have some great prospects available for call up in the AHL, but do not want to rush them immediately, and of course it is unfortunate Katic is done for the season, as he could have made the choices down the line more interesting.
Staios, well, you know what you are getting, somebody slow and somewhat reliable, who at least knows how to play the game at this point, but still needs to be paired with a D partner who can make up for his lack of speed to get behind the play immediately.
Injuries will happen, there is still final waivers coming on and my hope is that this blueline can take us to the trade deadline. If we are in a position to make the playoffs, even if we are 8, 9, 10th at that point, we should make a trade for physical dman, for the rugged life of the playoffs.
Question marks, certainly. Answers, will come in a few days.
Streit – Staios
Amac – Ham
Eaton – Jurcina
Mottau, Reese, Ness in the waiting line followed by Donovan, de Haan, Klementyev (depending on who goes down)
Wishart
I really hope Wishart hasn’t regressed to where you have him (behind Reese, Ness and Klementyv). Wishart could be very important in how this defensive crew looks in the first 20 games… especially if there are any injuries.
I really think this is an attitude thing, and he needs to start focusing on his own career more than the attention he is getting. Sure, it was nice to see deHaan and Donovan have nice camps, but Wishart finished out last year being on the cusp of a regular NHL paycheck. I can’t believe that he is now a 5-6 AHL guy.
Hopefully some strong play as a top four guy in BPT will get him back to the NHL as the first call-up. Mottau and Reese are just too inconsistent, and I’m going to reserve judgement on Ness until he gets pounded for a few games. He is still at the back of the line when you add in deHaan and Donovan.
If Wishart can get back to where he was last year, and Jurcina stays healthy… they have a serviceable 8… and in the second half they might even be looking to fit in a prospect like deHaan. But if injuries rack up Capuano might find himself in the same situation he was in last December sans Marty and Hillen.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
This.
Guys have bad camps. It happens (see Grabner, Michael last year). It shouldn’t result in a huge demotion.
Wishart went down because he was on the cusp where he could theoretically still learn in the AHL and he had a bad camp with 5 clear guys in front of him. But he didnt go down because he’s so far behind everyone else.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
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by garik16 on Oct 4, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Huh....
“If Wishart can get back to where he was last year and if Jurcina can stay healthy (yet to be proved in his career) the Islanders may just have a serviceable 8.” This combined with the question mark known as the goalie position will make it very difficult for the Isles to get to the playoffs. Playoff teams are solid in the first 4 D spots and in net. Just having a serviceable 8 D combined with the ever present goalie intrigue, unfortunately, will not get it done.
The first 3 spots are very solid
How important is the 4th D spot? If Streit plays well with a “serviceable” defenseman, will that be enough for the Isles to compete? How many other teams in the East have a 4th defenseman who can play noticeably better than Jurcina/Eaton/Staios? And how many of those teams have 1st/2nd/3rd defensemen as good as Streit, Hamonic, and AMac?
Goaltending is certainly another potential achilles of the Isles this season. But will we see over-and-over the 4th defenseman making a mistake, which leads to a scoring opportunity, which leads to a softish goal? (Directly or indirectly) In other words, is the combination of sub-par 4th defenseman and (perhaps) sub-par goalie a deadening combination?
I’m not saying you are wrong. I am just trying to flesh out this idea. Is it possible that “top-4” defenseman is overused? In other words, is it better to have three just-below-average-(defensively) defensemen in the 4,5,6 spots, or is it better to have one just-above-average defenseman as a 4th and two definitely-below-average (although not awful) in the 5,6 spots because the 4th will likely play a lot more than the other two? (A “just-above-average” defenseman in the 4th spot is better than most 4th defensemen by definition, assuming 6 per team; a “just-below-average” (Jurcina/Eaton, perhaps) is lightly worse than the average NHL defenseman.)
The Isles were competitive last season from mid-December on with just two “top-4” defensemen. (Of course it can be argued that they scored at an unsustainable pace and goaltending— mostly Montoya— overachieved.) When they were down to one NHL defenseman (AMac injury) was when the wheels really fell off.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 4, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Isles have at most 3 top 4 D
Just trying to inject some reality into the situation here. Staios is not a top 4 D on any team. AMac and Streit are coming back from big injuries. Hamonic only has 61 games under his belt. I like all three of those guys but they have their question marks. The remaining D corps are either old and slow and/or prone to injury. The goalie situation is still very uncertain in that not one of these guys would be considered a #1 on many teams. All I am saying is it will be very difficult for the Isles to make the playoffs with what they have here on the back end.
They can only improve
With all of the injuries last year, it’s pretty remarkable that their GAA was even that low. Patching together a big league team on what amounted to a minute by minute basis is an impossible task and, even with all the bang ups, they still managed an impressive second half run. The return of Streit pushes everyone down a spot and if – IF – they stay healthy, and the offense puts enough pressure on the other teams’ blue lines I can see no reason they can’t knock 50 goals off last year. Of course, Ricky D. has to show that he can stop the puck, which wasn’t always a given even when he was completely healthy
D counting on good health to improve
it just shows that Snow was happy with the guys he picked up last season, and his feeling is that the only reason we were so bad on D was health.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
I think that overall the GM ...
has done a really good job in assembling a dynamic core group of players.
On the other hand, I can’t say he’s improved the defense over last year. He also hasn’t addressed the team’s single most glaring need – a big, tough and durable defense-first backliner. At least not yet. I still hope he can and will make that move. If not, we’re left with hoping that the annual plague of injuries somehow finally ends. Even then, the defense corps as a unit doesn’t appear to be more than just adequate. The top 3 are all excellent as long as they stay on the ice, but for this team’s defense to become a real asset and a weapon to make this team whole, I think two more ‘good-fits’ are needed.
by dose on Oct 4, 2011 8:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree he hasn't done much (anything?) on the D front
Sort of sat on Streit coming back, Hamonic staying level or even improving, and health not being as disastrous. There was the run at Ehrhoff and who knows what other attempts. \
As for any future moves…I suspect if something shakes loose, yes. But the whole “durable” and “physical” desire is a tough one, I think, because that’s a rare and tough to acquire package unless you’re just adding guys like Staios who make lots of noise but don’t necessarily hold their own anymore.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Was Martinek bad?
I don’t remember anyone saying anything to that effect last season, but it could be just buried among other disappointments.
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
Not that I want to open el boxo de pandora, but Martinek was better then Staios, Jurcina, and Mottau overall last year.
While being the healthiest of the bunch.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
What is worse than bad and awful? Horrendous?
What about Hillen? Just to open up the box.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
by Hockey1919 on Oct 4, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, regarding Staios:
Maybe he provides some steady-but-unspectacular D for a few months and when his health catches up with him, one of the guys down in the Bridge will have really demonstrated the ability to take things to the next level?
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
That's like my best-case scenario
I can’t talk myself into thinking Staios has found a fountain of youth beyond that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 4, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
End of the day
Staios is unexciting, and not good, but if we think about who might be the best candidate to hide his flaws next to Streit-Staios, Martinek, or Hillen, it really might be Staios. For one, he came dirty cheap and short term. Two, he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who is going to do a lot of free lancing, which makes sense. Three, he is right handed. Four, I don’t think he’s more than a placeholder for Jurcina, and then either he or Mottau is headed to the AHL. And lastly, he can easily be a bridge to Ness or Donovan or de Haan or anyone else who fights there way up. No one is going to be upset if he is dumped after 20 games. It would have been harder with Marty (pulling down 2.2 mill) or even Hillen, because of their tenures with the team.
I didn’t love the signing, but it makes some sense if you think about it like this.
Dude!
It’s Skynyrd.
I am trying to remain realistic in my expectations about this year’s defense. It would be nice to have a corps that isn’t listed with the phrase “when healthy” after almost all their names. But talent-wise, the Streit-MacDonald-Hamonic triumverite + special guest stars is fine by me. I still like Jurcina’s skills…(wait for it) when he’s healthy.
Oh, I expect Travis Hamonic to make Drew Doughty look like Marc-Andre Bergeron this season. Don’t look at me like that…
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Dude!
It’s triumvirate!
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
by PGI on Oct 4, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry!
And thanks! I looked at it twice and something didn’t seem right, but I was bleary eyed.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
No doubt that...
… If Streit, AMac, and Hamonic can stay reasonsbly healthy, defense will be a lot better than last season. It is as simple as having one excellent defenseman and two very good ones instead of just two very good ones…. Beyond that, they can trade for a dependable 5th/6th defenseman if health is an issue.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 4, 2011 9:57 AM EDT reply actions
I'm one of the people who thinks the Islanders needed a top-4 guy to take the next step.
I still think they can compete this year, and have a decent chance at the 8 seed, but our D really isn’t very strong. Streit’s great, but he’s 33 and coming off an entire missed season, so there’s a little bit of a question surrounding him. Hamonic and MacDonald, while great last year, are still young; Hamonic, in particular, could be susceptible to a sophomore slump (I don’t think he will, but it’s sure possible). After that, there’s just not a lot there. If we don’t make it this season, I’m confident our D will be the reason why.
Oh, there's lots of risk, I agree
I’m operating on fairly contained expectations, so certainly the D is one of several reasons their ceiling is at best a barely-in playoff seed (and that’s if everything works out right).
I see this season as an important next step that demands progress, but the possibility of suddenly becoming a Cup contender was null — they have too many pieces that still need time and development, and no way to suddenly add game-changing pieces. None of the defensemen who changed hands this summer wowed me, and several I wonder what the acquisition cost would’ve been for the Isles, so I’m not very heart-broken there. I was more disappointed in blueline moves (or lack thereof) the previous two summers.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I really want them to land Ryan Suter or Shea Weber if Nashville has to get rid of one of them after this season.
Suter would be a great addition to this team.
by Metzfan22 on Oct 4, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Suter would be a tremendous addittion. He was a better corsi player then Weber last year while facing the same competition.
Only difference is he doesn’t put up the goals offensively, is smaller, and isn’t physical.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Good post
Except that it lacks monday-morning quarterbacking and fingerpointing. Otherwise perfrect.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 4, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions
Did that top-4 D-man ever excist?
Combining the FA market this past off season and trade possibility’s was that guy ever there. How many teams are sitting in the same position right now going into the season wishing they had 1 more top d-man?
Ehrhoff, Burns, Regehr
Of course, Ehrhoff declined. Regehr had a no-trade clause that surely included telling the Islanders to Ehrh Off, and Doug Wilson said he’d stoked the fire of the Burns trade for six months.
Then you could expand your definition of “top 4” to get a little more creative: Any of the questionable (IMO) D-men that moved could, if paired with the right babysitter, theoretically get by as part of a second pairing. Maybe that’s Hannan (who either didn’t get offers or cherry-picked his options) or Liles. One’s opinion of Kaberle dictates how one feels about that option.
I think most people are just looking for some solid depth that’s preferable to relying on Staios. Prices and opinions vary.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Well even if our defence collapses and we perform terribly this year
Maybe we can all take solace in the possibility that Sean Avery’s NHL career is over. According to Larry Brooks the Rangers are waiving him, and it looks like hes going to go to Europe
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
Rather
I believe he’s staying in Europe. They have a great fashion scene over there.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
Let's compare
Here are the 4-7 depth charts of what I consider the teams in the Islanders’ tier (and lower) in the conference. Not sure how accurate or up to date these are and I am not familiar enough with these players to make informed comparison but if you can, please pipe in:
Carolina:
4. Bryan Allen
5. Jamie McBain
6. Jay Harrison
7. Derek Joslin
Florida:
4. Mike Weaver
5. Jason Garrison
6. Keaton Ellerby
7. Erik Gudbranson
Montreal:L
4. Josh Gorges
5. Chris Campoli
6. Jaroslav Spacek
7. Yannick Weber
8. Jeff Woywitka
New Jersey:
4. Adam Larsson
5. Bryce Salvador
6. Mark Fayne
Ottawa:
4. Chris Phillips
5. Matt Carkner
6. Jared Cowen
7. Brian Lee
Toronto:
4. Carl Gunnarsson
5. Mike Komisarek
6. Jake Gardiner
7. Cody Franson
Winnepeg:
4. Zach Bogosian
5. Johnny Oduya
6. Randy Jones
7. Mark Stuart
8. Derek Meech
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 4, 2011 11:57 AM EDT reply actions
Honestly
the only one I would take over ours is Montreal…and maybe Ottawa on potential. And I’m not sure any of those teams has a better top 3.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Interesting, because I was going to say they are all better than the Isles except for Florida and Carolina.
Ottawa lucked out
Carkner needs knee surgery.
New Jersey…wonder what Salvador has left. (That’s not a doubt, exactly. I sincerely wonder what a year of brain descrambling and faux Lou Cap relief has done.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Well here's the thing
for starters, 7-8, I’m basically not counting…they may be better, but they won’t be dressed immediately. So I wasn’t going with the “depth” thing. Second, there are individuals there that I think are better than any one of our 4-7 (Chris Phillips, Bogosian, Gunnarson), but after each of those guys (respectively), there isn’t much behind them.
Not to mention some things like Larsson is a rookie, Bogosian’s been sketchy. And beyond that, none of those guys are really big guys that we would want/need. I would argue that our bottom bunch is actually bigger than a lot of those right?
I don’t know if the D is going to play terribly or not obviously…but I’m not panicked over it…the above doesn’t look like a tremendous upgrade over what the Isles have.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I’d take WPG’s bottom 4 over yours. Bogosian alone is enough to sway that decision, and Oduya is servicable. I probably take FLAs also, Weaver’s very underrated. Maybe CAR too.
Of course, there’s arguments about your top 3 compared to theirs, which is why WPG and FLA should finish at the bottom of the pile when it’s all said and done.
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Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I should have pasted the whole list
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 4, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
With no Staal, the Rangers are an argument as well. Even with Staal, our bottom 4 would be Sauer/Del Zotto/Eminger/Bell right now, which is, umm, not exciting.
Our solution is to just play Staal-Girardi 30 minutes and McDonagh-Sauer 20, so that the 3rd pair doesn’t matter much. Not sure if the Isles can go that route with Streit and AMac coming back off injuries.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 4, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's the hope here
is that we can find someone who Streit or MacDonald can make look good so those bottom pairs aren’t that exposed. Streit has already played 25+ in preseason, so I think he’s fine…Amac on the other hand got in one game and looked rusty.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I do hope you realize Staal and Girardi will eventually break down if you continue this.
Even if he gets over the concussion.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Oh, I’m aware. My hope is by that time Erixon adjusts to the smaller rink, and/or Del Zotto gets his head on straight, where the two can take on 12-15 minutes w/ Eminger. I also hope that the 30/20 split is more 25/25 with McDonagh’s pair.
Another alternative is that they keep the 5 forward PP they’ve been using in the preseason, which frees up 8 min or so a game for the D to rest.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 4, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's Compare, Take 2 (added NYR for our special guest)
CAR:
1. Joni Pitkanen
2. Tomas Kaberle
3. Tim Gleason
4. Bryan Allen
5. Jamie McBain
6. Jay Harrison
7. Derek Joslin
8. Justin Faulk
FLA
1. Dmitri Kulikov
2. Brian Campbell
3. Ed Jovanovski
4. Mike Weaver
5. Jason Garrison
6. Keaton Ellerby
7. Erik Gudbranson
MON
1. Andrei Markov
2. P.K. Subban
3. Hal Gill
4. Josh Gorges
5. Chris Campoli
6. Jaroslav Spacek
7. Yannick Weber
8. Jeff Woywitka
9. Raphael Diaz
NJ
1. Henrik Tallinder
2. Andy Greene
3. Anton Volchenkov
4. Adam Larsson
5. Bryce Salvador
6. Mark Fayne
NYR
1. Marc Staal
2. Daniel Girardi
3. Michael Sauer
4. Ryan McDonagh
5. Michael Del Zotto
6. Steve Eminger
7. Brendan Bell
8. Stu Bickel
OTT
1. Sergei Gonchar
2. Erik Karlsson
3. Filip Kuba
4. Chris Phillips
5. Matt Carkner
6. Jared Cowen
7. Brian Lee
8. David Rundblad
TOR
1. Dion Phaneuf
2. John-Michael Liles
3. Luke Schenn
4. Carl Gunnarsson
5. Mike Komisarek
6. Jake Gardiner
7. Cody Franson
WPG
1. Dustin Byfuglien
2. Ron Hainsey
3. Tobias Enstrom
4. Zach Bogosian
5. Johnny Oduya
6. Randy Jones
7. Mark Stuart
8. Derek Meech
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I feel like the Isles look even better if they're healthy.
There are a bunch of age and injury question marks in those depth charts. I would probably say if I was picking an entire unit for fantasy purposes…it would be Winnipeg…but they don’t have forwards…(or Frans Nielsen specifically).
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
The problem for me is that we have too many injury question marks and sub-par d-men.
Yes, Streit/A-mac/Hamonic should be a great top 3, but after that you are left with 4 guys who are likely sub-par bottom pair d-men or at best a decent bottom pair d-man(Eaton only imo). Then plug in the injury problems last year, likely injury plagued d-man or 2 this year and it’s confusing. If DeHaan or Donovan really weren’t better then Eaton or one of the other 3 in the pre-season, I have a feeling this is gonna be a long long year defensively for us barring a trade acquisition.
But the big thing for me was, if DeHaan or Donovan couldn’t win the last top 4 d spot in camp from one of the cripples(joking), then I believe we could have a depth problem. Hopefully garth is just overcooking them though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I'm not sure they would ever put the kids ahead of a healthy cripple out of camp
I think just asset-management-wise, it’s dangerous. The kids are expecting to be sent down. The vets are most certainly not, and if waived out of camp might be “lost” in the mental way if not literal way.
I know that’s projecting a bit and using too much psychology for some people’s liking, but I like the idea of hording some NHL contracts to start, then letting the vets prove themselves out of a job (or get hurt) early in the season, or else having a prospect called up for injury play so well he Hamonics the job.
Not exactly the cold, fantasy-draft way of doing it, but a way that keeps in mind group dynamics. That said, this doesn’t explain adding a Staios to the mix. Unless their suspicion of Mottau’s form is the same as mine.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 4, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see it as a possibility. I just also see it as a way that is going to cost us some points in the standings over a little more developping of kids.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Weaver
Yeah, I’d really be happy to have him. When I saw FLA put Tyson Strachan on waivers, I got my Former Blues With Fairly Generic Names confused for a moment, and nearly cracked open a campaign post Why The Islanders Should Claim Florida’s Mike~~ … then remembered I had the wrong obscure guy in mind.
Snow’s assistant GM in Florida has really dropped the ball on this one.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
And when Winnipeg falls out of the race...
…will Isles be able to trade for one of their defensemen?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 4, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
good idea, but misleading ranking in some cases. a few of those listed are top 3 on those teams
like Chris Phillips for Ottawa, even if he doesn’t put up many points.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 4, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is my depth chart no D
1. Streit
2. A-Mac
3. Hamonic
*****WARNING, BELOW HERE BE MONSTERS*****
Staois? Dylan Reese? My god.
I’m still pretty high on Wizard, comparatively, and cannot for the life of me imagine how it is that he isn’t higher than the Reese/Staois/Mottau/etc brigade of clowns.
by AP77 on Oct 4, 2011 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If Eaton can stay healthy
He’s a solid 3rd pairing guy. He had a positive +/- last season
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I can’t stand Eaton. I cringe whenever I see him out there. I realize this is somewhat irrational.
He shouldn’t be any higher than a 6 on any reputable team and even that is pushing it really hard.
To be fair AP77, Streit has shown that he can elevate even crud (Gervais) to reasonable leels.
But yeah I’m with you. Of course, I consider those top 3 pretty damn good.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Which is amazing, in retrospect
And I worry about expecting Streit to do it again, a full year and shoulder reconstruction later.
But captain, my captain!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
BTW, this whole complaining about the D thing is very overblown.
I’d bet good money that by 30 games in one of De Haan-Donovan will be on the NHL Club, and by midseason probably both.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 4, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree- I think De Haan is here by mid-season at the latest.
I think they are going the Hamonic route with him.
Agree
Good chance we see a bottom pair comprised of Wishart/Ness/Donovan/de Haan by January between injuries and poor play.
I could also see one of those guys getting paired with Streit and the another on bottom 2 duty with Eaton.
Especially if the top 4 come back healthy and strong and can eat close to 50 minutes a game.
Blair Betts was waived today
interested? Like the poor man’s Malhotra from what I understand. If Pandolfo is an option right now, we should probably claim Betts.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
From what I remember
the guys over at BSH were really low on him.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Wait
That might have been Shelley
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Couple issues there.
One: Betts plays center (We’re kind of stocked there).
Two: Betts is a decent player, but he’s almost certainly worse than Marty Reasoner in that same role.
Three: Betts faced much worse competition than Malhotra last year.
I’m not sure how three worked in practice – if i had to guess he was put in for defensive faceoffs whenever the opponents top line was not out there? But it is worrisome.
If he could play wing he might be fine, but he’s an odd player to figure.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
(The competition could just be a fluke of course, as it was normal the year before)
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
LOt's of PK time for him last yr
3:30 gm…gets the burden off FN pretty good…and I wonder about his FO%
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
But better than Bailey and (whispers) Frans
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Frans is probably better defensively.
(the zone starts make things odd to compare, but i feel quite confident in that statement.)
And better offensively.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Oh, I don't doubt it
but if we’re talkiung about freeing up FNGO for offense (since I really don’t believe the JB/BC/whoever line is going to see a big uptick), this may be a reasonable replacement line (Betts/Reasoner/Rolston) to take on those tough minutes.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Like I said, it depends upon if he could play wing.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
And
he played with Shelley and Powe 28%. You wonder if he plays with Reasoner and Rolston….was 2nd lowest O zone start behind Malhotra 26.9% and 50.3% on FO.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Blair?
I always preferred Jo myself. Sucker for punk girls.
Did Betts have concussion issues? Or a shoulder? /lazily not looking it up
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Has been pretty healthy...
Since lockeout: (GP) 66, 82, 75, 81, 63, 75
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
They just signed pandolfo
So there’s that.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 4, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully your 7th D man on waivers by Vancouver
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Balls, he's a wing
I swead I heard D and didn’t even look…sorry!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Ooh, that's interesting.
I’d take a fly on him for sure. Very tough assignments and did decently well in a small sample.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Fake Russian
Born in Ontario? Sheesh.
(Sorry, I’m blowing off steam after a long meeting, so none of my comments are to be taken seriously. I mean even less seriously than normal.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Rest of Waivers
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/icechips/
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Ryan O'Marra cleared waivers?!?!?!?
Shocking!!!
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Oct 4, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THE FIRST OF THE MANY MISTAKES SNOW HAS MADE!!!!
BAILEY, NO TOP 4 DMEN, PANDOLFO, ETC.
FIRE SNOW!!!
by afrosupreme on Oct 4, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Banana Hamonic
Im just saying
<--waits for a COZO to start and then knows he has 30 seconds to run and grab another beer
by Chris McNally on Oct 4, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
For real now...
I really dont think you need to worry so much about the Usual Suspects right now. I believe by mid-season at least two of Eaton, Mottau, and Staios will have either had their leg fall off or just plain play themselves off the team. Like Travis Hamonic last year I think you’ll see two of Wishart, de Haan, Donovan, or Ness up and part of the regular D rotation bc of injury. And like Travis did last year, they’ll grab hold of the job and not let go, and the guys you’re worried about right now will be press box fodder and our 6th D-Man will be Jurcina. I’m ok with waiting a half season for that to happen…
…unless it leads to a November like it did last year, then half season may have to become quarter season.
<--waits for a COZO to start and then knows he has 30 seconds to run and grab another beer
Hope you're right, but let's not forget how impressive it was what Hamonic did.
Between Eaton, Mottau and Staios you may have one viable defenseman, but hoping a rookie can come in and play like Hamonic did two years in a row would be an exceptional feat. Hamonic somehow made it look normal that he would be that solid in only his first season, I can’t help but cringe requiring it to be the norm for the Isles to be successful this season.
Nassau Coliseum lost a veteran and an original Islander fan. ACC 1918-2011
You know, that's my hope
And that’s actually why I’m somewhat tolerant of stuffing the ranks with a cheap and no-strings-attached Staios rather than doing another Eaton-type deal.
(I realize the line is very thin, but I think internally and among players there is a different perception if you sign a guy in July to a two-year deal and then send him packing, vs. inviting a guy in on a tryout and signing him at the end of camp to a one-year bonus deal and then cutting him/scratching him by December. One guy moved his family to choose you over other suitors, the other guy was willing to do anything just for the favor of keeping his NHL career alive for one more year.)
That said, if it’s not the internal thinking we may have more Staios than even the most tolerant can stomach.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Staios = Weight
Thats right, another ‘Veteran, character type, teacher, locker room inspiration, over the hill, guy who is going to make it happen for the defense. Please spare us this year’s savior.
Is there any chance Wishart will remain an Islander?
Since he likely will be claimed on re-entry waiver at some point; do you see it as realistic that Wishart ever will have an impact as an Islander? Even as injury call-up he will have to pass through re-entry waiver eventually when everyone is healthy right?
by Shanamaj on Oct 4, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No, you do not pass through re-entry waivers as an injury call-up.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 4, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, maybe I was being unclear. I realize he wouldn’t require re-entry waiver as injury call-up. But when no one is injured he’d have to be sent back to BP or pass re-entry waiver. Assuming he would be claimed on the waiver wire; is there a likely scenario where he would be on the Islander roster long term?
Oh I see what youre saying.
Happens to every team- after the injury if the team wants to keep him up, they could send someone else down to make the numbers match- it doesnt have to be him.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 4, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If he stays up as the injury call-up instead of another guy, what is the cheat in that?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 5, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if there no longer is an injury, but the Isles want him in NHL, he’d never have to clear re-entry waivers?
Not quite sure... I dont think Ive ever seen an Isles team with nobody injured, honestly.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 5, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
