Islanders Top 25 Under 25: Calvin de Haan at #10
by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 6:38 PM EDT
in Islanders in Diapers
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On June 26, 2009, while the buzz for the selection of John Tavares was still at a fever pitch, Garth Snow and the Islanders used their extra picks (thanks, Chris Campoli!) to move up in the first round ... and then move up again. That they selected Calvin de Haan was not a surprise. That they moved up not just from 26 to 16, but also again to 12 to get him was.
Some pre-draft lists had de Haan in the 20s, some had him at 20 and some in the mid-teens. Lots of intrigue will surround that day for many years -- were they trying to move up for someone else? -- especially as Dmitry Kulikov (14th overall, already 145 NHL games) is joined in the NHL by David Rundblad (17th) and Tim Erixon (23rd) this season and Ryan Ellis (taken one spot before de Haan) and de Haan some time soon.
Smaller in frame on his draft day, de Haan has grown and put on muscle in the intervening years. He's suffered a couple shoulder injuries but continued to play well for his junior club and Team Canada. This season is the next step, his pro debut at Bridgeport. In our pre-training camp poll he ranked 10th in our Islanders Top 25 Under 25. Where he ranks this time next year and the year after will do much to tell us how we feel about the second story on that day in 2009.
De Haan was drafted first for his skating, puck moving and good first pass sensibility. In a league that was (and still is) valuing puck possession and quick movement, de Haan fit a need. What's interesting is the timeline for his maturation coincides roughly with when current captain and best offensive defenseman Mark Streit's contract will expire.
Was Streit the free agent splurge to fill a void, and de Haan his intended successor? Best laid plans. But I'm sure no one would mind seeing a powerplay manned by the two of them together.
How We Voted
| Top 25 Under 25 | mikb | M11 | CIL | Dom | KQ | Web/Mark |
| Calvin de Haan |
7 | 9 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 9 |
For this first edition, we polled LHH authors Keith, WebBard (Mark D), mikb, myself, and two particularly prospect-focused LHH regulars, CanadianIslesLifer and MatthewM11. We wanted enough to get a decent number of voters but not so much that we make the first run unwieldy. It is absolutely unscientific but with varied enough votes to get us thinking.
De Haan is unquestionably a good puck distributor and almost effortless skater. His mobility and vision will make him an NHLer. Reportedly his gap control has improved, making his defensive intelligence more NHL-worthy. The injuries raise a durability flag, and the lack of physicality means his defensive intelligence will have to compensate for the possibility he won't be a guy who can move people from the front of the net with authority.
How the last question turns out probably determines whether he becomes a really nice offensive defenseman or a very good defenseman, period. On our panel I was one of the harder voters on him, but I can't wait to find out what he'll become.
Previous Posts in This Top 25 Islanders Under 25 Series
- Those who didn't make the Top 25
- #25: Anton Klementyev, D
- #24: Not to be Pedantic, but is it Andrei or Andrey Pedan, D
- #23: Mark Katic (D) shoulders the burden
- #22: Rhett Rakhshani (W)
- #21: Matt Martin (LW), budding 'stache
- #20: Johan Sundström, C
- #19: David Ullström, C/W
- #18: Scott Mayfield, D
- #17: Kirill "A" Petrov, W
- #16: Feisty Casey Cizikas, C
- #15: Towering Anders Nilsson, G
- #14: Roloson Reward Ty Wishart, D
- #13: Okalhoman Matt Donovan, D
- #12: Brock Nelson, C/LW/Reverend
- #11: Kirill Kabanov is a Thing to Say, W
The Top 25 under 25 is an idea conceived (I think) by Oilers blog Copper & Blue and copied elsewhere, incorporated here by popular demand. We cut it off at players who were under 25 going into this season, so Andrew MacDonald, having just turned 25 this month, barely misses eligibility.
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really thinking we should see if there's a market for him out there
or are we willing to be patient?
he may take more time than originally thought
I don’t think he’s more than #17 – Mayfield has a bigger upside in fact – I think
We have 3 Dmen going out the door this year
Eaton, Mottau and possibly Jurcina. No reason or time to get rid of a young Dman
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
by Mark D on Oct 19, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very true!
…and the 2011 guys won’t be a factor for 3-4 years. This should be a better UFA year for defensemen if he’s not ready to transition into Streit’s role. It should, at least, be a year where we are attractive to UFA’s.
Not to start another anti-CaryKu opinion thread… but WHY.
If you (CaryKu) are going by what you see in BPT… DON’T. It’s the blind leading the blind down there. Thompson is new, and there are 3 defensemen that haven’t played 20 games of professional hockey right now. (Ness, deHaan, Donovan). There is no Wotton, or as you have said O’Neill to show him the way. That whole situation will evolve by thanksgiving.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s a much better list of defensemen as it stands now, than it was this past season. Sure, some of these guys will be locked up before they hit the market, but there are some very intriguing under 30 names:
Suter
Wideman
Carle
Coburn
Boychuk
Tavares is Tavares.
If DeHaan is ready for next year, and team is likely to acquire a 4 of 5 depth D man this season sometime
Isles would need to sign 2 more Dmen, one for depth one for top 6 as UFA’s in the off season…hopefully an number of those players go UFA…Kronwall would be interesting…i can’t see Eaton, Jurcina, Mottau or Staois back next year, even though Staois has been good so far, Eaton I guess adequate.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, my priority list for d-men in this upcoming UFA year is:
1-Suter
2-Coburn
3-Carle
4-Kronwall/Wideman
6-Gleason/Boychuk
We get one of those top 3 guys and we are looking great on the D side next year to add to Streit/A-mac/Ham-man. We add one of the bottom 4 and Garth did good, but not great. We don’t add any and don’t upgrade through trade, or likely have any ahl d-man proving themselves this year, we are in for a headache. But with how the situation is looking UFA wise, you have to think garth is going to get one of those guys.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
For the record, Schenn and Komisarek are both playing horrible for Leafs right now
fans are really getting on komisarek…Leafs were down 3-1 to Winnipeg after two, came back to win…Komisarek cost them a couple of goals, one for a boneheaded penalty, he was benched during the over-time period. bob mackenzie said schenn’s play was a bigger concern, as he is a top fourDman…toronto “knows komisarek is a 5 or 6 D-man at best”….the kid Gardiner and a few others are playing well, toronto has extra Dman depth @ NHL level. I think it obvious Toronto would clearly like to dump komisarek’s bad contract, but not likely any takers.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
As for bad d-contracts, nobody wants to touch Komisarek or Ballard.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I want Suter on the Islanders so badly...
by Metzfan22 on Oct 19, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no question
I’ love to see Suter on the Island. Will he be available, and will he sign here if he is? That is the nine-year, sixty-four million dollar question.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
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Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
I doubt Nashville could afford to keep both Suter and Weber. I'd love either one
by MineolaIsles on Oct 20, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless Suter wants to take a big pay cut, I have to think he's gone. They just can't afford him and Weber and Rinne's new raise coming.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I think Rinne goes, actually
For one thing, the league has proved that you can win the Cup without an elite guy in the crease. For another, Nashville has Anders Lindback coming along and he’s rumored to be an excellent talent; the team may hand things to him in order to keep both Suter and Weber.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Yeah, it depends.
As good as Nashville was last year, Rinne was the vezina nominated centerpiece. I don’t think they’ll be horrible without him, but they are a team that lacks a quality offense and likely will for a while, so without a goalie to put them over the top/steal some games for them, I think they are gonna be in for some future problems. But losing Suter or Weber would also be really bad for them, it’s a lose situation no matter who they pick.
And even though Lindback has potential, he is still not close to ready for an NHL starting job. He has barely played 27gms so far in NA rinks. I believe he should have/be given more ahl time to iron that out and “complete/fix” his game, but the Preds are using him otherwise. Either way, he won’t be able to jump in and fill Rinne’s shoes if they let him go. I just think Nashville is in for some trouble if they don’t either find offensive players to come their or lockdown/keep/repalce their key players(Goc/Ward/Sullivan, now Suter/Weber/Rinne in question).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Their defense is so solid though, and always has been
Dunham, Vokoun, Mason, Rinne — they’ve all looked like stars (and some legitimately were) under Trotz. I think their stuck in some form of limbo, but I don’t think losing Rinne is what sinks them.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I don't think they fall off the face of the earth, but they are back to bubble team territory at best in the west I'd guess with the loss of Rinne/Suter/Weber.
Moreso if they lose Suter or Weber because of the competition they face together. Remember that even with “good” goaltending they likely don’t make the playoffs, they need excellent goaltending for how their team is built. Rinne threw up a .917 sv% in his rookie season a few years ago and they still missed the playoffs by 3pts. They had the 24th best offense in the nhl then and they had the 23rd best offense last year when they were a 5th seed but 4/5pts away from being out of the playoffs. They need a strong goalie/top-4 defensive tandem to survive, and a large part of that was Rinne and his .930 save percentage. I’m not saying teams can’t win without great goaltedning, I’m saying the Preds can’t be a playoff team without great goaltending, it’s just the way they are built for now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
granted
But, if you were on a budget, and you knew that even WITH awesome goalkeeping you were barely making the playoffs, wouldn’t you try to turn your surplus assets into something you really need? The team can’t spare either of their stud D, but they can spare a goalie. (They also have Chet Pickard in minors and he’s also well-regarded.)
I think if Nashville is still straggling along in January you’ll see Rinne dealt and Lindback getting the kinks out to end the season. One intriguing idea I had – and that I didn’t particularly like from an Isles fan perspective – Nashville trading Rinne to the Devils.
As goofy as it looks at first glance, it’s not a bad move for NJ, who are currently looking at an injured old Martin Brodeur (age 39) and a not-that-great-to-begin-with old Johan Hedberg (38). They could rent Rinne if they think Brodeur can’t hold up or is past his best-by date, and they have young forwards that could help Nashville (Tedenby, Josefson, Henrique).
I think it’s less likely that the Preds send Rinne to a Western team, but they could see if Edmonton is interested in upgrading over Khabibulin, and heavens knows they’ve got kids to spare. The Oil would have to be on the fringes of making the playoffs, though, and they’d have to get a little impatient. One thing helping the buyer’s side – Rinne is UFA so the risk of his walking by year’s end will keep the cost down.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
I completely agree. But the big thing is, they need to "live" with knowing this no matter what the consequences are for them this season, and trade Rinne(most likely) or Suter or Weber(least likely).
If they don’t man up and trade “likely” Suter or Rinne for assets before the trade deadline, they are losing prospects/players at the cost of 1 season. Maybe they decide if it’s Rinne or Suter based on how extension negotiations go, Suter 1st and Rinne 2nd. For all we know, they “could” lose both of them if they want to test FA waters. If one of them isn’t dealt before the trade deadline, I think Nashville is making a huge mistake.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I don't like discussing Nashville
Because I fear we will be them in a few years, which is both good and somewhat hopeless. They are blocked by ceiling giants like Detroit and Chicago…and we have some of those (potentially) too.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
JPinVA
please stop ranting at me
de Haan may or may not have what it takes
its a point worth debating
And if
he has what it takes why trade him? Do you really think GS will move someone who he traded up for, twice that is? If they trade him, it will be after he has had a chance at NHL level.
I suppose you have watched a lot of games with CDH to make such a statement.
just suggesting
that’s its more of an open question that he will make it, hence we might want to consider all options given our depth at D in the system – Calvin isn’t exactly lighting up the AHL and his body size is a concern. I’ve intentionally not taken in Bridgeport games yet – wanted to give them a month or so to get into gear. Should be able to take in a game in November and will report back how all the young D are progressing. We could use 1 one of them standing out – am sure we’ll need a call up over the next few months due to injuries etc. Unclear who that could be – there are obviously 5 candidates (de Haan, Ness, Donovan, Wishart, Reese) – callup candidates could also be determined by their health at the time – Ness partnered reasonably well with Hamonic in the pre-season. Not looking to bust up Amac-Hamonic, but given all the injuries we had with D last year, the team may also want to bring some of these guys up so that we don’t completely wear down all the Islanders D – many of whom were hurt much of last year (Amac, Eaton, Streit, Mottau, Jurcina.) are old (Staios) or the lone D not in either category (Hamonic). We obviously could still use a big body on D – would be nice to get one.
Patience
Calvin isn’t exactly lightning up the AHL and his body size is a concern.
How many games have they played, five? And based on those games and the performance of the other young blueliners like Donovan and Ness (both body size a concern). Reports from BPT says none of the D has lighten the AHL up. Should they be trade debatable as well then?
I’m going to give them at least one year in the minors before judging any of them and making trade suggestions.
well
i was hoping for zach kassian with that pick but whats done is done. i dont think dehann will ever be great but hopefully he’ll be a good NHLer.
there probably has been some, but i cant think of any outsatnding 6’1 185 pound NHL defensmen. and i dont think dehann is gonna get any bigger with his body type.
Brian Leetch, Paul Coffey, Sergei Zubov...
by Nobody77 on Oct 19, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
to name just a few
Size only helps if you know how to use it properly.
Also on the small-yet-very-good side: All-Stars Mark Streit (5’ 11", 202), Brian Campbell (6’, 189), Kris Letang (6’, 201), and 2010 Norris Winner Duncan Keith (6’ 1", 196).
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Oct 20, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
leetch
would be a good comp size wise. but leetch wasnt great defensively and i dont think dehaan has leetches offensive skills
and coffey? his skating was in another stratosphere that we may never see again in a defensemen. plus he was 205 pounds.
streit? yeah, he’s ok. not an outstanding defensemen by any means. but if dehaan was as good as streit i’d be happy. all those other guys were 10-15 pounds heavier than dehann. makes a difference.
the point is there arent/werent many OUTSTANDING small defensemen. the great generational type guys like bourque, lidstrom, chara, pronger, potvin, stevens, blake were all big and strong.
Pretty sure I saw an interview with him
that said he was 200 now…can’t remember where now, and of course could be BS on his part.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
they
did the weigh i at the blue/white games and had updated weights. it was either 187 or 189 for dehaan
I looked for that one
The one last season when he was with his junior team. I thought it had him at 195, but I couldn’t find it.
Either way, even if it’s only 190 now, that’s up 10-15 from last year. There is no concern here.
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Oct 21, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lucky #7
on my list. I think he’s too smooth to fail. He needs work, and maybe a few more lbs, but I think long term he is going to be a very good player for the Isles for a long time. He has that knack for knowing what to do with the puck, and maybe more importantly getting into position without it. Hamonic is the only defenseman ahead of him on my list.
ps-re: the caption-Staios is 24, not Streit.
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Numbers game...
Hopefully 10 is available for him (see caption)
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
niiiiice
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
Ack!
ps-re: the caption-Staios is 24, not Streit.
Mind and fingers at war with one another, apparently. Thanks for the correction.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
This kid
I like… if can stay healthy enough to play. He just seems to have the intangibles to me. May turn out to be that “pesty” kind of guy that shows up at the right place on the ice at the right time. If traded, might be one of those aw shit should have seen that coming things.
Back....
had to take a Campbell and wipe my Bettman.
#12 on my list
If I was redoing this today I’d have him higher as he is just in front of Katic and the next D behind Wishart (and that seems to be a mistake)
deHaan probably would have a lot more pressure on him if they didn’t fire Ryan Jankowski already.
One can speculate that trading up (chronicled above) for deHaan might have been debated at the draft table. Besides maybe the 7th round pick of Cody Rosen(2010), or taking TWO goaltenders with a 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2009 this was the most curious of selections under the Jankowski Assistant GM tenure.
deHaan has filled out. No doubt steroids (for healing purposes only) were involved. His injuries were poorly timed as he has missed a few opportunities to shine. You would have to think that the Isles went to great lengths to get what they thought was a 2009 or 2010 NHL sleeper pick… what they got was… MEH.
Calvin, though, has shown what should be NHL level talent, though he is currently still bouncing around on the depth chart with guys like Katic (injured), Donovan (on a higher trajectory with experience vs men), Ness (having a surprisingly good start to his pro career) and Wishart (appearing ready last year, not so much this year).
He has been way outclassed by 2nd rounder Travis Hamonic already, and 2006 6th rounder AMAC has already been mentioned in these parts as CAPTAIN MATERIAL.
He should get a shot later this year to show what he has to offer the NHL, or at least get a lesson in what he needs to learn in the AHL.
We’ll see… but I sure would like to have Kulikov this year. I wonder if Jankowski just handed Snow the wrong index card, the one Junior Wang was doodling on, when he went to the podium… we’ll never know.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
I see him as a top 4 d'man, 9 on my list
Amac with more offence. Not bad. I value that more than a potential third liner. (Bailey, Lee).
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
Sure he's Ok..............
but we have an abundance of smallish puck carriers in the system, while we wait for Brock and Mayfield to develop. The jury is out on Jurina [like the sound?] and Wish is still on our wish list. All this demonstrates a need for a trade now for some size on the D, not just for this season but the next as well.
If Jurcina can't stay healthy
I’d expect him not to be around next year.
You will never see Wysh in an Isles jersey again, I can assure you of that.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Really?
You will never see Wysh in an Isles jersey again, I can assure you of that.
What’s up with that? I don’t doubt you, I’m just curious as to your reasoning.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
remember someone from the Islanders locker room said that practices were a joke or a vacation? It was during December last year. From what I’ve heard, it was Wysh that opened his big fat mouth and that was one of the reasons Snow was willing to trade him.
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I think
you are talking about Wisniewski and JP is talking about Wishart?
That right?
And I thought we just sleuthed Rolo out to be the country club quoteman?
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
your right
when I saw Wish on our wishlist, I thought he meant the Islanders trading/signing him to bring him back
"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
You are correct...
I thought Webby was talking about Wishart.
Wysh? How do you get… forget it.
I don’t think Wisniewski is coming back to the Isles. Whether Wang was offended by the gesture (or didn’t feel the fans should be subject to it), or he made the country club comment…. what ever it was… the team was strapped for healthy D and they traded him for a draft pick. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out.
But we are straight that the door is open for the Wizard of Waiverly place, right?
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of gestures
Dubinsky (on Tuesday) did the old “suck it” gesture at Bieksa after their fight. (picture b/c I cant describe)
I guess this means suck it less than Wiz’s gesture meant suck it though as there has been no forthcoming discipline. Apparently, it’s less homophobic also.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 20, 2011 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gesturing to another man to ‘suck it’ is less homoerotic than what, exactly lol?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 20, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that what that was all about?
Hell, I do learn something new everyday.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
lol, Bieksa didn't even see it. Bieksa made the hugging gesture after the fight because Dubi wouldn't trade with him in the fight pretty much at all.
Dubi got pissed and tried to say and show something in response, but Bieksa was gone when he did.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
de Haan played alot with Tavares back in the day, right?
And didn’t they have great explosive chemistry? Hopefully they will reclick together when de Haan finally gets his NHL legs and we’ll see stuff like that Streit pass to Tavares tenfold. Maybe thats what they were thinking about or at least contributed to the reason for selecting him.
DeHaan...I may be eating some crow on this one in a few years
Draft rumours were the Sabres wanted Se Haan so Snow traded up…I always suspected Snow was chasing little Ryan Ellis, but we won’t know for another 20-30 years, maybe never given Snow’s history. Personally, I wanted Kassian — the guy who could have been alternated with someone like Kabby when Kabby might not have been as effective, off game…thus Kassian riding shot gun with JT, providing protection and talent…
The Joker Ollie and his smaggering thuggery of DeHaan in pre-season shows just how much DeHaan still needs to bulk up…but on the other hand, his positional D is pretty good. I was never a fan of DeHaan and admit to being a harsh critic. Mostly due to my belief that he was too small for the NHL and would always be injuring prone…plus he was too soft, and did not have an NHL slapper…the player DeHaan is most often compared to is Tomas Kaberle, who also doesn’t have an NHL slapper, but like DeHaan, is easily an above average passer and skater…In fact, both you could say depend on their saucer like passes as their bread and butter…the down side is, I’ve watched Kaberle a lot his entire Leafs career and I’m no fan. He and McCabe were great for a while till opposition learned to always cheat a little and play Kaberle for the pass and McCabe for the one timer. Boston acquired Kaberle in an attempt to revive that system with Kaberle setting up Chara for one timers…Didn’t work.
In the physicality department, like DeHaan, Kaberle is a soft defenseman…all in all, Kaberle was deemed such a measurable standard for DeHaan that even DeHaan seems to have endorsed the comparison as a developmental model…what I do like is DeHaan seems to have noted the fans anxiety over lack of physicality, and he addresses that he will bring that, and, I give him credit for bulking up, but he still has more bulking up to do.
In comparison to Hamonic, whom DeHaan was paired successfully with in the WJC with team Canada prior to dirty hit from behind that injured his shoulder, there really is no comparison other than both grew 2 inches after being drafted…Hamonic is a rare bird transitioning to NHL so quickly…that can not be expected as the norm. We have to be patient with DeHaan, but from what I am seeing, it is getting obvious that he is going to be an NHL defenseman once he has the body, and if he can stay reasonibly healthy. One article I read had him compared to Kenny Johnson…a stretch, but DeHaan is proving he is smart and smooth defensively, that goes along with his elite saucer, tape to tape passing skills from the blueline…and we haven’t even gotten into his skating abilities yet…aside from Hamonic, out of all the Isles Defenseman under 25, DeHaan is the closest to NHL ready.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Good Stuff CIL
Kaberle seems like a good start, but hopefully the glimpses of a “physical” side will continue to develop in the A.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Great analysis as always. lol
It’s weird how similar they are, Kaberle and DeHaan. But the big difference is that DeHaan is still 25lbs less then Kaberle has been most of his career. Add that into the equation of his “strength” and “durability” question marks, and it makes you worrisome. Then we have the other question of “was” DeHaan overrated in the 09 draft? Somewhat unsurprisingly, DeHaan’s best year in juniors was with Tavares on his team. But more surprising, in the 2yrs after Tavares’ departure, DeHaan never dominated or bettered his stats like he should have offensively in the OHL. You could argue that on plateauing or injuries or the Tavares effect. Personally I think it’s a little both. I think DeHaan was never as people originally thought. At DeHaan’s best, he could become another Kaberle or a less-physical Kronwall, and at his worst he’ll become an injury prone bottom 4 d-man. I think he’ll become an Ehrhoff-lite or Ian White.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Agreed, strong analysis
I had him rated higher (as one can obviously see!) because I think that if you’re in great position all the time, you don’t necessarily need to be a huge hitter. It can’t hurt, but de Haan doesn’t need to be a wrecking ball. If he’s a little less durable we don’t WANT him to try, he’ll only be wearing his own tread that way. Guys like Potvin who can smash everything and net a PPG are few and far between, especially on the blueline – and even Denis had a couple of major injuries.
To my thinking, de Haan can always be taught a good slapshot, it’s just mechanics and practice. His hockey smarts are another story – he’s got the hockey brain to take full advantage of the coaching.
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Agreed, DeHaan has great potential, he just needs to learn and figure it out.
And I really hope he shys away from throwing hits. He really doesn’t have the body right now to do that and be durable from his track record and frame. I’m just a bit surprised someone drafted so high is taking this long to put on weight and learn the defensive side of the game well. He’s touted as really smart, so hopefully he’ll learn. But when we draft a d-man at 12th overall, I expected him to be ready in 2yrs, especially with the training camp hype he was given in the past. I’ll give him some leeway because of injuries though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Weight and defense
Do you really think he’s taken long to put on weight and learn the D-side? Reports have been he’s done both each year, interrupted by injury.
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Well, I don't know.
I hear kids like Strome and others gaining 20lbs+ in 1 year (not the norm) and think DeHaan is a bit slow there. DeHaan even grew an inch or 2 since his draft year and still “only” put on a reported ~17lbs in a bit under 2 and a half years. I expected DeHaan to know what he needed to do, and weight/strength was one of those things. I “expected” DeHaan to be 195lbs by now, but maybe I have too high of expectations as CIL says.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I think your expectations are a little too high too soon Oz
Most D do play out their final two years of junior after draft, then spend a year or two in the AHL. sometimes kids are rushed, like Luke Schenn, but most D don’t go directly to NHL from Juniors. Even Hamonic played his two years of Juniors and went to the farm last year…Hamonic of course was rushed to NHL as an injury fill in, and no one has been able to take the job away from him since…Hamonic is the exception though, not the norm…Even the Great Denis Potvin did not play in NHL till 20, but that was when players were drafted at 20, not 18 where projecting is so important. I think Dehaan was 5’11, 165 or 170 pounds when drafted, I’m going by memory here…now he is 6’1, 189 to 193 pounds…DeHaan is the same height as Kaberle now, but as you noted Oz, he is about 20 some odd pounds lighter than Kaberle…watching DeHaan get showed around like he wasn’t even there by Ollie Joker, De Haan clearly needs to add more muscle if he wants to be a regular NHL top 4 Dman, and not just a PP specialist.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's listed as 187lbs in multiple NHL places. But I agree with most of your analysis.
I just think DeHaan should have been heavier/stronger by now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
if DeHaan is still the same weight in two years, I'd be very concerned
some of his muscle/size increase is logically due to growing two inches, but Dehaan is noticeably bigger than when he was drafted. Still, he is too easily shoved around by bigger NHL forwards…he needs to get to about the same playing weight as Kaberle, which means another 20 pounds of muscle are needed.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know, Kaberle is getting kinda old to expect him to improve
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not that DeHaan's shot is terrible, it's just not Hamonic/Streit/Rolston caliber.
I’m not sure it’s strong enough to keep defense’s honest. In the isles skills competition last year it was clocked in the 80’s mph wise. Maybe if he bulks it will get stronger? I’m not sure. He has already had the Streit shoulder surgery, so that might have hurt it too. And he’s never lit up the goalscoring chart in juniors, so I’m not sure we should expect him to put up 8-10goals/yr here, maybe 5-6. I don’t know though. It’s still really early, DeHaan is still only 20, but the injuries and weight/strength “issues” are still the biggest concern. As are his reported defensive “issues”, he’s taking longer to get to the nhl then we’d thought.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
not an issue with the time line so far for DeHaan
finishing your two years of junior, then a year or two in ahl is pretty normal for defenseman. kids like hamonic are the exception, but hamonic has the nhl body.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I just expected more/quicker adaptation from a 12th overall draft pick.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
He seems tohave a great wrist shot though
and gets it through to the net well.
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Bottom line for all players................
at all positions in the NHL is heart. There are many smallish stars on both sides of the blue line who have become stars, and conversely big guys who have flopped. But “bulking up” doesn’t give D man physicality.Y es there are of course specialists who lack all around skills playing D example Bergeron who has a heavy accurate shot from the blue line and very little less, so he is a journeyman. Of course CDH will play in the NHL, and will contribute to the Isles some day, but IMO he needs some bigger D in his or other pairings to make his contribution meaningful. Snow’s more recent bigger D piks are a few years away, therefore we need a shut-down type guy soon.
Wrist shots from the point = yuck
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by Original Rob on Oct 20, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he'll get more assists then goals from it though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
