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Islanders Bits: Is Steve Staios Working Out So Far?

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I have watched some Hall of Fame defensemen carry some decidedly not-HOF partners and come out just fine, so I subscribe to the theory that you can protect a weaker (but ideally smart or experienced) defenseman with a superb partner.

That's what makes the addition of Steve Staios interesting: He's had a rough couple of years (that's putting it kindly; he was a training camp tryout this summer) but he has a good hockey brain and he's been an important defensean in the past. Can pairing him with Mark Streit work? My guess in camp was that it can, but that his body at this age is a risk if subjected to that role for 82 games.

It's too early to interpret much of anything from the advanced metrics, but we'll dabble anyway. It's also too early to make conclusions about him helping anchor the defense or solidifying blueline stability, but writers gotta write about what's happened so far, even if it is only four games.

Star-divide

A Foolish Peek at the Stats

Again, I can't stress this enough: The data sample is too small to draw big conclusions, but we can use it to describe what has happened so far: Staios and Streit have the highest Corsi of the six defensemen used. They also have the highest percentage of offensive zone starts, which means they are placed in Corsi-friendly situations.

As always, this is 5-on-5 data thanks to Behind the Net:

Blueliner Corsi Rel Corsi Rel QOC Zone Start % Off. Zone faceoffs
Mark Streit 17.5 1.380 55.8% 22
Steve Staios 16.1 1.582 56.4% 19
Travis Hamonic 7.2 .703 52.3% 18
Andrew MacDonald 0.0 1.041 48.0% 17
Mark Eaton -12.9 .098 42.3% 15
Mike Mottau -29.9 .772 44.4% 13

If you're unfamiliar with this stuff: Zone Start% is the percentage of faceoffs a player has started in the offensive zone, which is a rough indicator of how a coach uses him (if you are prime Brendan Witt, I put you out for more D-zone faceoffs; if you are Bryan Berard, I put you out for more O-zone faceoffs; if you are Denis Potvin I put you out there until you collapse or the Cup is delivered). Corsi Rel is a measure of how many shots are directed at the opposition net minus against your own net, relative to the rest of their teammates. A high positive number there means the puck is headed the right way when you're on the ice. Think of it as amplified and more relevant plus/minus, or better yet: Think of it as a measure of puck possession. The Corsi Rel QOC up there is taking that to measure of the competition they see. But these samples are small.

You can see by the number of total faceoffs that the difference there isn't great, but I do think these are an indication of the percentages we are going to see: As expected Streit and Staios, Hamonic and MacDonald are going to be used a lot overall. But by percentage, Streit and Staios are going to draw more offensive opportunities (which should help their Corsi). We'll want to monitor if Streit's figures drag over the season, and if Staios might be a factor. My hunch is if we see Staios drag, it's going to be when he's being "a gamer" playing through nagging injuries that accumulate by mid-season.

Eaton and Mottau have by far the worst Corsi so far -- again, small sample -- but have also been put in the least advantageous situations. They have struggled, but they haven't been sheltered with cushy assignments. They are the other end of my strong partner/weak partner theory: Two of those secondary guys together can be dangerous.

Anecdotally we all have our opinions and observations, and I'd wager after just four games those are more reliable than a small sample of numeric data. (There are teammates and situational factors that are hard to account for here, and the quality of competition data can swing wildly in a small sample.) But so far there is no qualitative or quantitative reason to say Staios is holding back Streit, and his two minor penalties thus far (both in the same period) are nothing alarming.

Staios' recent history tells us that's not likely to last all year, but that recent history also includes playing with un-Streit-like partners. It's interesting that Capuano is pleasantly surprised by Staios' mobility and offensive decision-making, and Streit likes his first pass. I am reminded that Streit had Bruno Gervais as a partner for a long stretch two seasons ago.

Of course, wins over the long haul are the great measure of any personnel deployment. So talk to me in December.

 

Islanders and Hockey Is Good Links

Last Night's Games

Lots of games last night, so we'll go with some knee-jerk reactions:

...The Bruins tooled it up in a loss, racking up penalties in a display that I'm certain would be viewed as a disgrace if it were the Islanders. But when it's the B's or the Flyers, it's just old-time hockey.

...Ottawa lost 7-2 to the Flyers and already looks like an embarrassment. They've allowed 30 goals so far. Thirty!

...The Blue Jackets lost again, and absurd defensive displays like this are an example of why. (Since we're talking about bad teams: The Wild lost to the Pens 4-2.)

...Florida lost 3-0 in Washington. They have three wins in five games, but Florida's 5-on-5 goal differential is tied with the Sens for worst in the league at 0.44.

...The Blues were spanked 5-0 in Los Angeles and Jaroslav Halak continues to make Islanders goaltending look permanently stable. (Ugh.)

...Finally, the Rangers should have lost horribly last night, but Henrik Lundqvist kept it 0-0 through two periods and then the Rangers exploded for four goals to beat Vancouver 4-0. Unreal. Blame Luongo or something.

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so far so good...

staios is working out ok. not sure if he can keep it up like this all year, but i can’t help but seeing this as a temporary pairing w streit, since trading for that first pairing defenseman is hard to come by. long story short, i like staios. hope he keeps it up. keep winning games.

"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"

- Steve Zissou

by gukid17 on Oct 19, 2011 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Staois Reminds Me a Bit of Bert Marshall

Very experienced, solid defenseman who’ll “hold the fort” for a brief period until some of the young kids can step in, while showing the way.

In fact, Staios, Pandolfo and Rolston kinda remind me of Marshall, Parise and Druin. All savvy “hold the fort” guys.

by rmblifn on Oct 19, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zone start % is interesting

really give you an understanding of how guys are used and why their numbers might be different. nI mean at the end of the season if Eaton stays at 44% and Staios at 56% then it would make sense that Staios would probably have a better +/-

Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all

by Rickfansince76 on Oct 19, 2011 7:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Very True, but these numbers are early.

and thus they’re affected probably a good bit by odd factors, like games with lots of penalty killing (the numbers above are for 5 on 5 only). In such games you get things like players who you wouldnt have out there on 5 on 5 in the Defensive zone playing such a role since the real defensive players are playing PK.

Long story short, Zone-start is really really useful, and the most useful of these stats just yet probably….but it’s still too early.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16

by garik16 on Oct 19, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't know about the ...

Corsi stuff but I think Staios looks like he’s doing a pretty good job. In fact, the D has looked pretty good to me as a unit so far. Of course I want more than just pretty good, and the injury parade hasn’t begun yet, but on the other hand, Jurcina is in the wings right? And he should be good for a game or two before his next injury.
If I may take liberty to address a different stat issue, does anyone know the team’s faceoff % and standing in the league? And the O-zone D-zone breakdown? I would bet they are solidly in the bottom half.

by dose on Oct 19, 2011 7:51 AM EDT reply actions  

does anyone know the team’s faceoff % and standing in the league?

Currently 27th in the League at 45.6%.

by elesias on Oct 19, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeez, that's a prob.

Over the course of a year that can account for a bunch of points in close games.

by dose on Oct 19, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's early, of course

But you can see the situational breakdown (not zonal breakdown) by player here.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is Franz that bad? (Last year was 46.2%)

You’d expect a guy with his coordination and low-to-ice strength to be better.

But perhaps his coordination isn’t so good. Perhaps he’s just so good at stickhandling because he’s practiced so much. (Stickhandling isn’t really reaction-coordination.)

Reasoner was around 43% after 2 games, I believe. So he’s probably been well over 50% since then.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always wonder that too

Maybe this is one area where his small frame handicaps him?

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He loses

all the ones in the offensive zone on purpose so he can get back to playing defense.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he's too pure of heart

to cheat on face-offs like everyone else.

"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science

by PGI on Oct 19, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Isles Hit The Road

I’ll be in Tampa at the game. I can’t wait to see those Islander ‘Road’ Whites. They look so cool when the Isles go on the road. They make them just look“FASTER!!!!”

As far as Staios Goes. During the off-season I did not think that the isles had sufficiently replaced Radek Martinek with their inability to obtain a top 4 D-Man. So far though, I think I think Staios has at least replaced Martinek in some respects.

He also just looks like the type of guy that just left MMA to join the NHL. He was one mean looking dude.
I ADMIT…I LIKE THAT!!!

So far so good on Staios!!!

Also, if I may say, I like Mark Eaton. His stats listed above aside. Mark Eaton is a Stanley Cup champion. When I watched the playoffs a few years I remember him being paired quite often with my friend Rob Scuderi on the pens Blueline. On a nightly basis in the playoffs they were catching the other teams top offensive assigments and did well enough to win it all.

The guy that can really be of help is Jurcina. We need him to stay healthy.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano

by FB4Real on Oct 19, 2011 8:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Jurcina is a critical missing piece on the 3rd pairing (read, bye bye Mottau). Not that there’s anything wrong with Mottau, but all things being equal, I have to think you stick with Eaton when Jurcina comes back precisely due to his experience as a winner (whether he was a direct contributor or not).

Staios has been a solid veteran partner for Streit, and as long as both stay healthy I can see this pairing continuing to work. I don’t think you’re going to win the cup with Staios as part of your top pairing, but I don’t think he stops you from a playoff spot.

by SchneiderDiricov on Oct 19, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

I do think Staios has actually been an upgrade over Martinek. Not much, but he can skate a little bit. He seems to like to jump into the play. It hasn’t burned us yet, but he’s been caught deep a couple of times without actually accomplishing anything. We’ll see how that goes.

Also regarding Eaton, the zone starts and linemates really have to affect dmen much more than forwards no? I’ve come around on Corsi quite a bit, but it seems a lot more useful for forwards. I like Eaton a good bit to, and in no small part to exactly what you point to-how well he and Scuderi played in that Cup run.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

You guys seem to overrate Eaton a little

Pittsburgh’s D back then was mostly Gill-Scuderi, Eaton-Letang, Gonchar-Orpik. Gill-Scuderi were clearly their primary shutdown pair, Gonchar got the offensive opportunities and Eaton-Letang did a bit of everything. They weren’t exactly sheltered, and I don’t doubt they contributed, but they were kind of the “least important” D pair and Eaton probably was the least effective defender (behind 5 really good defenders, however).

by BenHasna on Oct 20, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

not a fan

Ultimately, I can’t really tell, haven’t watched him enough (in his prime – btw, when was that?). I know what he did for the Pens’ teams going deep into the playoffs, but other than that hadn’t watched him much at all before he signed with the Isles. No idea how he was with the Predators.

For the Pens in those two years he was much more a serviceable 3rd pair guy in my opinion. Due to his ability to play on the PK and be somewhat solid in his own zone he never needed to be sheltered as much as other 3rd pair guys. And I suspect he’s not someone who drags his partner down when given a bit more responsibilities. So I guess for the Pens it was helpful having him around – even more if you take into account some intangibles – but in order to be successful they probably needed a couple of defensively and offensively superior defenders each.

So, I don’t really feel comfortable ranking him the way you like to rank the players. But I’d say for me was more a good #5 or half-decent #4.

by BenHasna on Oct 20, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the heck happened to Halak?

Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.

by ilopan on Oct 19, 2011 9:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I think there was one more equipment size reduction that summer he was traded

And he was a small goalie to begin with. And his not being as insane as that playoff run was pretty predictable, but it didn’t stop Doug Armstrong from trading a nice prospect for him and signing him to a fat deal.

He’ll probably rebound some, but man he looks awful so far.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Staios

Fits the Philosophy
I think, Staios, and the whole defensive group, is finding success early on because of the TEAM dynamic.
It just appears that they are moving better as a 5 player unit. They have been doing so since the turn around last year. It’s why guys like Reese and Wishart had success at the end of the year, but are struggling in the A. Think about the defensive cast that Nolan took to the playoffs.
From what I’ve seen Staios has done an adequate job, but he and Streit are still making mistakes. I’m not sure if that’s on Staios, or Streit. the difference is mistakes aren’t leading to odd man rushes, or situations where forwards are forced into defensive coverage of odd man rushes. We saw an awful lot of that before the turn around.
Even MacDonald has made a few bad decisions in the first four games. But better defensive play by the forwards and good goaltending is covering right now.
When Jurcina rotates in… and somebody earns a promotion from the A… it should be okay. But right now they have no back-to-backs, and some 4 day lay-offs (like now).
The defense will NOT look this good come November or December if they are making the same mistakes. I hope we are not lulled into believing that this cast does not need a n upgrade.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

One thing I'd like to know is the effect the forwards have

If you get the puck out to Parenteau or Tavares, or Nielsen or Grabner, it’s different than getting it to Bailey or Comeau. I think Ben might have noted that the third pair has had a lot of shifts with the Comeau/Bailey combo already?

Meanwhile, Edmonton fans at C&B would call out the Staios “bang it around the glass” breakout. Maybe Streit’s presence keeps him from doing that.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

I was looking at Corsi Rel QoT, and Eaton’s is off the charts bad. I’m sure it’s mostly because he’s always out there with Mottau, but the forwards have to be a good part of it also. But basically if the trend continues, he may not be drawing the toughest assignments, but his minutes might actually be tougher because of weak linemates.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

It wasn’t extreme in every game, but particularly last weekend against the Rangers Eaton-Mottau played almost exclusively with Bailey’s and Reasoner’s line. Actually, in that game Eaton-Mottau spent more time on the ice together with Trevor Gillies alone than with JT and Nielsen combined…

by BenHasna on Oct 20, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Staios

Looks OK+ so far. Looking down the road at the rest of the season, barring injury he will continue to play regularly, however I still believe that Ty Wishart will be called up. On another thread someone pointed ou that he is 5 or 6 at BPT only because the powers know what they have in him and want to give the deHaans, Donovans etc ice time. They are not NHL material this year in a team that is pursuing a post season spot. The GA is the big stat., if our offense clicks and the D comes up short and the play-offs are a possibility – we will be net buyers for D in Feb.

by altosax on Oct 19, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

We could only wish for Denis

He would have been an upgrade over Danis

"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Oct 19, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I still feel

that with the Streit-Staios pairing, having Streit cover the front of the net while Staios roams the defensive zone doesn’t look natural to me. I still suspect that Jurcina returns and is partnered with Streit and hopefully Staios replaces Mottau.

"Failing upwards! How come I can’t ever seem to do that?" - AP77 on Strang's ESPN Job
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.

by Mark D on Oct 19, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Dom, I'm sure you know this

but you should really emphasize how damn useless the quality of competition statistics are right now. A good portion of the QualComp stats right now comes from opponents’ performance AGAINST THE ISLES, so it’s double counting.

In all honesty, I think Staios has been okay due to Streit being so damn good.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16

by garik16 on Oct 19, 2011 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

In all honesty, I think Staios has been okay due to Streit being so damn good.

I think so, too. My curiosity is in whether that can work over the long haul. If you’re undermanned and you have a limited guy who at least knows to K.I.S.S. when partnered with a Streit-type, that might be the best way to distribute personnel until there are better options. That’s a fun topic for me.

On QoC, yes I hope I emphasized that enough. Felt like I was hammering disclaimer after disclaimer already.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once Mottau is replaced, I think most of this fixes itself

I expect a domino effect. Jurcina replaces Mottau. Eaton and Jurcina take on tough assignments and do relatively well. Most of the rest of the tough assignments are taken by AMac and Hamonic. Thus, Streit and Staios have by far the easiest of the assignments and don’t even have to play 1/3 of the EV time. Streit can play PP and often PK. Staios doesn’t need to play PK because the other 5 can.

By mid-season hopefully an AHL defenseman can take Staios’s spot. (10 minutes a game at EV with Streit against weak opponents and where ever else he can chip in on special teams.) Or Wishart takes Jurcina’s spot and Jurcina takes Staios’s.

This is by no means a Cup-contending defense, but it may just be one defenseman away, if everything else with the D clicks. (Also don’t think Isles have Cup-contending forwards yet.) But it IS a defense that is fully capable of helping Isles to the playoffs, and even challenging for the 5th/6th spot in the East.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

The question is when is it too late to get that top 4 D, by way of trade?

by altosax on Oct 19, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Probably only when such a trade is actually available and someone else makes it instead.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vancouver seems to be shopping around with Ballard

He’s gettin paid like a top 4 Dman at about 4.2 million a year. Think he could play like 1 here?

by MineolaIsles on Oct 19, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He definitely didn't last year

If they’re still trying to dump him, I have my doubts.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

i believe the Leafs are looking to shop D for a forward...

i heard this on nhl center ice last night. now i’m not sure if garth would even consider doing business with burke or if there’s really any interest, but i would assume that JM Liles, Komisarek, and/or Luke Schenn may be available. are any of these 3 proven top 4 Defensemen? would you trade comeau or someone else straight up for one of these 3? not sure how i feel about doing business with burke, but these might be othe only D options via trade on the table. would you make a deal for any of these guys if you were garth?

"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"

- Steve Zissou

by gukid17 on Oct 20, 2011 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt Luke Schenn would be avaiable

Given the overpriced 5-year contract that Schenn signed this summer as a RFA (11-12 4.6m + 1m SB, Cap hit 3.6m), Burke must really love him. He had a rocky start, but I don’t think they would give up on him after only 5 games.
On the other hand Komisarek and Franson may be on the trading block. Komisarek has a NMC/Modified NTC and already stated in the past that he doesn’t want to play on Long Island, so he is out.
Franson is in Ron Wilson’s doghouse, but I’m not a fan. Franson didn’t look too bad in Nashville last season, but he played sheltered third line minutes and was a giveaway machine. He is still better than Mottau though.
I like Liles; a proven, albeit a bit small, puck-moving defenceman. He is Kaberle’s replacemet, so no chanche for a trade.
Trading for a top 4 D is not so easy and almost impossible for a fair price so early in the season.
I personally would like a player in the Luca Sbisa mould. A gritty stay at home defenceman who likes to hit. But well, those players usually don’t get traded.

by Francesca on Oct 20, 2011 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Komisarek has a NMC/Modified NTC and already stated in the past that he doesn’t want to play on Long Island, so he is out.

I think a better reason for him to be out is that we dont need or want him- it really doesnt matter what he wants.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 20, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Schenn is definately not available unless you knock their socks off with an offer

Komisarek can be had for a bag of pucks…he has made bone headed play after bone headed play…cost Toronto a couple of goals last night, they were down 3-1 to Winnipeg b/c of Komisarek…Toronto came back to win in SO..Komisarek rarely saw ice in the 3rd, was benched for overtime…bob mackenzie said in intermission leafs at this point are more concerned with schenn whom they see as a top 4 d man, komisarek, according to mackenzie, "is a 5th or 6th dman AT BEST and leafs know that…plus, they have the rookie Gardiner playing well with big minutes and a few other D doing well.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't touch Ballard until he has proven to be a good top 4 d-man. Do not touch.

Do not touch Komisarek. Luke Schenn is likely untouchable. And they aren’t getting rid of liles because they just traded for him and he’s playing 23min/gm for them. They’d need a really nice return to think about moving him. I’d try to pry Franson because he likely isn’t very valuable to them and he could help us with his offense, and maybe even solidify us defensively with the right partner. I’d look around for more options though on expiring contracts on bad teams. Say Sarich(6’4’’) on Calgary would give us a giant physical d-man to solidify the bottom pair and help the PK, Barret Jackman on the Blues may be expendable and he’s still a decent shutdown guy that blocks a lot of shots, and even though it’s in the division: philly isn’t going to be able to keep coburn and carle unless they both wanna stay there for pay cuts. And depending on if Carolina is close to the playoffs and if they wanna give 3 d-man $4mil/yr, Gleason “may” be pulled for the right price(later in the season though most likely).

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 20, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

the trade market for D is never good at start of season, it will open up as season progresses

we just have to keep fingers crossed that our D stays together until later in the season when the market opens up

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 20, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Problem with

waiting for someone to prove they are a top 4 is then they become unattainable/too expensive. You need to find the guys you THINK will get there, so that they come for a reasonable price.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 20, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but the other way is a huge gamble.

And we are a budget team right now, so that would suck unimaginably if he flopped.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 20, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, no need for Garth to force a trade this season unless there are a lot of D injuries.

My guess is that one of the bottom teams will have a useful defenseman available come playoff time. If Isles look like they will make the playoffs, Isles might not have to give up too much to get a loaner. (4th or 5th round pick? 20th best Isles prospect?)

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jurcina

Is supposed to make the trip as per Compton, which I have to assume means that there is a good chance he makes the lineup for at least one of the games.

by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 19, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Aditional news

BrettCyrgalis Brett Cyrgalis
DP making Fla trip, Capuano unsure if he’ll get a start. Jurcina making trip. Nino not going, but skated this morning. #Isles
15 minutes ago

Haley (2) and Donovan (1) suspended by AHL for match penalties received Sunday. (I’m pretty sure both were boarding)

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Oct 19, 2011 12:36 PM EDT reply actions  

DP

I don’t know how he’s going to get a start anytime soon. You have to figure Montoya goes tomorrow, and possibly Saturday, unless Cap wants him to go for both Pens games next week. Then Nabby vs the Sharks a week from Saturday for the chance vs former team. But you don’t want Nabby going two weeks between starts, so you have to see him as taking either FLA or one of the Pens games.

I predict unless Nabby lays a giant egg, RDP does not get a start in October.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

both

penalties were listed as “checks to the head” on the official scoresheet. whatever that means.
 i talked to someone who saw the checks and said they were nothing, total bullshit.

just like the NFL is now the NPL (national pussy league), hockey is becoming the NPL as well.

by ripcurl2121 on Oct 19, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't altitude...

…the worst thing for concussions?
Maybe plan B is on…. “Make him retire and we’ll get you a defenseman.”
I only say that because the fallout from letting two guys with SAV% > .930 sit just to see if DP is ready could be tremendous.
The three headed goalie go round worked out for them so well the last time.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those match penalties are very curious

Only ones given in the AHL this year…both in the same game.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, you had me going for a second.

Of course when he actually shot the puck, he was more towards the center of the ice.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or top shelf hit the netting and is now rebounding back in the direction it came from.

Or it is coming straight off of his stick and going in and you lose perspective since the puck is in the air and not in the netting.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

And for Dom...

NHL NHL
Did You Know? #Caps Roman Hamrlik has moved past Bobby Holik as the longest tenured Czech born player in the #NHL.
7 minutes ago

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Oct 19, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

That's crazy

Wow, seems like yesterday…

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

sean

couturier with a goal and an assist for the flyers. and he’s a +4 already.

a big center like that sure would look good on the island. im rooting from strome but i wanted couturier and still think he would have been the better pick and will be the better player.

by ripcurl2121 on Oct 19, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  

C'Mon

Most of his stats come from the 7-2 beating they gave to the worst team in the league. I could be a plus versus the Senators. Let’s see how he looks with a bigger sample size. Strome has a much higher ceiling. I’d be shocked if Couturier was the better player 5 years from now.

No Sleep 'til....Belmont?

by Anarcurt on Oct 19, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Flyers Scare me...

LONG TERM.
The deals they made in the off season are good for the moment, but may be GREAT for the long run. They scare me because it’s been longer than I care to remember since we have dominated the Flyers and they may be improving at a faster pace than us.
Schenn is going to be another tough guy to defend in the NHL.. especially with an old and undersized D.
They have a good coach, who’s working with management to make good personnel moves. They are going to be tough to jump over in the next three or four years. I think they’re the biggest challenge in our division… and I include the Cindy and Geno show in that equation.
If we win this year’s season series with them cappy should be a shoe in for the Jack Adams.
The best part of what they did (for us) in the off season was they acquired this guy:

With any luck they will get his buddy from Tampa and we’ll have the upper hand again.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, long-term they got out of some contracts and added nice young help

It was like Santa Gainey dropped own the chimney just before the Richards/Carter NTC’s kicked in.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

...and the holiday feast begin...

The NHLLIVE scroll has them calling up Schenn. It might be early, but he’s going to be a contributor for this team. We have found the Kryptonite for Super Mario, we’ve always had it for the Rangers… the devils need to trade for Ponce deLeon… but the Flyers… that’s where we need to find an answer going forward.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Get Leon Stickle back

And put him on the payroll.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 19, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

the devils need to trade for Ponce deLeon

Don’t see how that would help, he never found the Fountain he was looking for.

Seriously though, by my math the Devils average age is 28.29, including the goaltenders. Math was never my strong suit, but that’s actually a hair younger than the Isles.

by elesias on Oct 19, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the most important number...

The average age of Martin Brodeur is 39!
I think we can go player for player with the rest of the Devils. Especially when our D matures. They can’t stop our firepower, they can only hope to contain us!

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW...

They don’t need Ponce for the fountain he didn’t find, they need him for CAP RELIEF. They’ll probably have to get rid of a big number to re-sign Parise and I think Ponce is making less than $800K.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

They’re actually in quite good standing as far as the salary cap, thanks in large part to the mutually beneficial Rolston trade.

They’ve got about $4.6m in cap space now, already counting $6m of the ~$7-$7.5m Parise will get, plus they’ll be freeing up about $9.35 in the expiring contracts of Brodeur, Salvador and Hedberg.

Short of acquiring someone with a big contract, there’s plenty of room for Zach and Ponce…

by elesias on Oct 19, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

True...

thanks to the IN DIVISION master work of Snow. BTW elesias, I think I was the only guy here that HATED that deal for that reason… and I’m pretty high on just about everything else Snow has done for the Islanders.
It’s not like anybody really NEEDS to get to the cap floor. It really would only become a hinderance in the MEDIA.
But you already know what banging up against the cap ceiling can do.
Anyway… maybe Lou can return the favor by shipping Alex Urbom over for a 6’6" finished Finnish goalie to replace you “expiring contracts”

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be a pretty nice return favor…

by elesias on Oct 19, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have to look @ the average age of core players

vets like rolston, pandolfo, reasoner, staois, eaton, mottau, nabokov (even DP) all raise the team’s average age, while at least half of that group won’t be around next season, let alone in two to three years…Devil’s are screwed after Marty’s done…he is literally where Billy Smith was his last few years, and the Devil’s don’t have a Kelly Hrudey in the wings.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That argument goes both ways.

Vets like Boulton (35), Sykora (35), Salvador (35), Zubrus (33), Elias (35), Brodeur (39) and Hedberg (38) do the same to the average. All are on contracts that expire at the end of this year or next.

The “core” may not be as young as that of the Islanders, but they’re not exactly old by hockey standards.

Devil’s are screwed after Marty’s done

Hardly, though I always find this argument amusing. People like to point to his declining numbers, how old he is and how he’s spent his entire career benefiting from the defense in front of him, but then posit that the team can’t survive without him.

Whoever takes over once he retires, be it this year or not, will surely have big shoes to fill in the eyes of Devils fans, but there’s no reason to expect that whether it be a young goalie in the system or a free agent signing that the entire team will fall apart. Heck, they made Scott Clemmensen look good for 50 games or so a few years ago.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

and there in lies the difference: those old Devils like Brodeur ARE THEIR Core...the grey beards on the Isles ARE ALL STOP GAPS, no exceptions

other than Larrson, most of Jersey’s core are much older than the Isles core…Jersey doesn’t have a replacement in the wings for Marty either, which is huge, given how much the team really was moulded around him.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hockey Standards and Age: over 35 is old, CBA also recognizes this

no one is Isles core is beyond the age of 25 other than AMAC who is merely weeks past his 25th birthday. Most of Jersey’s core are ten years or more older than Isles core…the average NHL career is only 5 seasons.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You and I have very different definitions of “core” then.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brodeur is no more a part of the Devils’ core than Nabakov is for the Islanders, and outside of Elias, no one on that list isn’t expendable.

Parise (27), Zajac (26), Kovalchuk (28), Josefson (20), Tedenby (21), Larsson (18), Fayne (24), and Greene (28) are the core, and all of them are in or approaching their primes. Average age: 24.

I’m just guessing here, and correct me if I’m wrong, but the Islanders core consists of:

Tavares (21), Moulson (27), Grabner (24), Okposo (23), Nielsen (27), Parenteau (28), Comeau (25), Hamonic (21), and MacDonald (25). Average age of 24.5.

Regardless, this isn’t meant to be a pissing contest about whose core is younger because, frankly, it’s not really that important. The original disagreement was about the implication that the Devils are some ancient team and I merely drew a comparison to show that that simply wasn’t the case.

As to a replacement for Marty, no one can say what Lou has planned or how any of the goalie prospects will pan out. In the end, he’s, now and has been for some years, a pretty average goaltender and average goaltenders aren’t hard to find. The issue of replacing him is more an issue in the minds of fans than a realistic issue.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

No sliding PAP in to boost the ages. (8 Devil players to 9 Islanders)

It is agreed I suck at math, but even I saw that. ;).

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all, I just went through the rosters and listed the players I perceived to be part of “the core.”

There’s no minimum or maximum number of players allowed, and I made no effort to balance the lists as each team is going to have a different number.

If he’s not considered part of the core, feel free to take him out and get an average of 24.1 which, again, wasn’t the point I was going for.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just pulling your chain a bit.

I wouldn’t consider PAP part of the core. Good player for us so far, but core is pushing it. Amazing how even one player can shift the age balance.

Agree the Devils aren’t old, but many people look at Brodeur and then look no further down the roster. Amazes me that Brodeur is often considered a product of the Devil’s system and yet if he goes away the system will collapse. Can’t have it both ways, he’s that good and why they could afford to play the system. Whatever happens, Lou is lucky that Larsson is on the back end to help whoever has the unfortunate spot of filling in for MArty.

It will take two goaltenders to replace Brodeur, one that gets chased out of town because he can’t nearly be as good and then the second that helps people forget.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It will take two goaltenders to replace Brodeur, one that gets chased out of town because he can’t nearly be as good and then the second that helps people forget.

It’s funny cause it’s true.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not too familair with the Devils prospect depth either

But the Islanders Core trends younger since it moves toward the draft picks like Neidereitter, Strome, Nelson, DeHaan, Donovan, Poulin and all of the guys that make up the top 25 under 25 list that has been ongoing here at LHH. Not sure there are too many NHL teams with a core NHL team averaging 24 years old and a whole slew of prospects on the way up.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

He is confusing stop-gaps with core players

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

You disagree with my list of the Islanders core, then?

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, absolutely.

Isles are a rebuilding team, the are building a core, they don’t have it all yet.

The only one you listed that I I wrote wouldn’t be part of the core, and may get some debate is Moulson. The rest, outside of Pap, are easily tradeable and replaceable, they don’t have the job security of a core player. In MM and Pap’s case, it is a matter of gravity…they are 5 or 6 years older than the core players, and those drafted for the rebuild, of whom some will be core players…when those players come into their prime, 4 to 6 years…MM and Pap are not likely to be producing as the are now…

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

All teams have prospects and all fans have high hopes for them, but one can’t count guys who aren’t playing in the NHL as part of the core of one’s team.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You misread

I listed a number of highend and projected bottom end prospects who have a real shot at being core Isles players. They have to prove themselves, but most certainly Strome and Nino, Poulin, those kids have a very real shot at becoming core players, so much so that I doubt they’d be traded without a lot coming back.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

you also can't count guys who haven't proven themselves either, like Larrson

he has core player written all over him, but hasn’t proven it yet…just b/c he’s played 5 NHL games and Strome none, doesn’t make one anymore of a core player than the other.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I waffled on him, but ultimately decided to list him because even though it’s only been a few games he’s already established himself as an NHL player.

There is about a 0% chance he doesn’t stay with the big club after 9 games—he’s already 2nd on the team in TOI—and he’s shown himself to be ready. You build a team around someone that can do that at 18.

by elesias on Oct 21, 2011 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still dislike the fact that you guys stole him from us.

He could have plugged into our D immediately helped solving our big headsmacking D issues.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 21, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

After the season they had last year, winning the lottery was karmic payback.

by elesias on Oct 22, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then I can’t imagine how much karma we’ve got stored up after the injuries AND losing the lottery.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 22, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Brodeur is in the same stage of his game Billy Smith was in his last few years

difference being, Jersey doesn’t have a Kelly Hrudey waiting in the wings.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

To say that Brodeur is no more part of Devil's core than Nabby is to Isles is a total slap in the face and revisionism

The franchise Gretzky once called a Mickey Mouse organization would probably not even exist anymore, would never have won cups without Marty, whose number will be retired, he will be in Hall of Fame and is still the most visible face of the Franchise, not to mention, Jersey still has no viable replacement. Not to discredit what Nabby did for SJ, but Nabby is clearly nothing more than a stop-gap, trade bait at best with Isles…

You list a number of players for both Isles and Devil’s that their teams most likely do not consider part of the core. A common definition is 8 players…5 forwards, 2 must be centres, 2 defensemen and one goalie…for example, Cal Clutterbuck is a role player, a checker, he would not be considered a core player…when the Oil were winning their cups, Lowe and Coffey were the core D, Charlie Huddy was a key role playing D, not part of core…remember, core players are the one’s you lock up long term, want them to play at least the best years, if not all with your club. You don’t lock up checkers, bottom 6ers, 2nd and 3rd pairing Dman long term unless it is a rare, rare checker, like say Guy Carboneau….everytime you do, it is a gamble that player will stay healthy. Their is a limit to how many players can be core players.

Isles rebuild started in 2008…that began with accumulated draft picks, restocking prospect pool. That also meant finding a lot of stop-gaps…some of whom you have have listed as core players…while most teams don’t have all the core roles filled, including Jersey and the Isles, the Isles are clearly closer in their rebuild…not one single hockey expert rates Devil’s prospect pool in the same ranking as Isles…in 4 to 6 years when Isles top young players and prospects hit their prime age, it is highly unlikely Moulson will still be scoring 30 goals a year, which means he will not be on the top line, and likely won’t even be on the team…Moulson is one of the stop-gaps that has over-performed…you are the only person I know who would list Comeau as part of the Isles core, and Pap is another stop-gap who has performed better than expected, but is unlikely to be around in 4 to 6 years…Note Moulson got a 3 year contract, Grabner, KO and Tavares got multiple years more…those latter three are all under 25, within the core average age…and clearly part of the core.

Now, everyone knows all prospects won’t pannout, that is why you have multiple candidates…out of all the players drafted under Milbury, Neilson is the only one I see has potentially staying with the core…DP is an entire different story, but I don’t expect to see him still playing beyond 35…

So you have a combination of kids who are already part of the core, and a group who may take a spot in the core, all around the same age…that list is basically as follows:

JT, Strome, Neilson, Cizikas, Ullstrom, Lee, Nelson, Grabner, Martin, Nino, Kabby, KO, Sundstrom…DeHaan, Hamonic, Amac, Donovan, Ness, Pedan, Mayfield…Poulin, Nilson

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

To say that Brodeur is no more part of Devil’s core than Nabby is to Isles is a total slap in the face and revisionism

Not at all. A core is a group of players one builds a team around. Marty is long past the time of building a team around him. He’s a holdover from the previous era and his time draws nigh.

It’s not revisionist or insulting to say that a 39 year old with a growing list of physical ailments is not part of the team’s long-term future, it’s just reality.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you saying the Devil's would trade or cut Marty lose if they had two kids who were better?

I doubt it…I think a more likely senario is Marty will never play for any other team, will play as either a starter or a backup as long as he can, and will retire as a Devil. That means he is part of their core and will be till he is no longer an NHL player. As for health, etc., can’t disagree with that, but in Marty’s case, he’s earned the franchise’s respect, he’s part of their core till he’s done…the team was/is literally built around him.

The revisionist comment was in reference to comparing Marty to Nabby, whose only played one game with the Isles and clearly is a stop-gap.

…If they have one kid who comes along better than him, great, Marty can teach and be backup, but even if they had two, one of those two kids would go before Marty.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the fundamental problem here is that we disagree on what defines a core.

Respect for what he’s done and how many more years he can squeeze out of his body isn’t relevant to me in this discussion because I define core players as those you build a team around and, in that respect, his time is over.

I wasn’t comparing him to Nabokov in any way except importance to the team in that respect; how key a component he would be to the teams of the next 5 or 10 years.

by elesias on Oct 21, 2011 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brodeur has already opened the door to leaving in the summer.

Isn’t this the last year of his contract? So I do think Lou would move him if the right deal came along and if it were to a place Brodeur would be willing to move to.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 21, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is his last year and he has final say due to the NTC in his contract.

While it’s impossible to rule anything out, the likelihood of his being traded is, at this point, probably slim to none.

He’s taken discounts to remain with the Devils in the past and has always said he’d like to end his career as a Devil. It’s not to say that a situation might not arise where he might be willing to go elsewhere, but it would have to be a pretty unlikely set of circumstances. If it were to happen, I’d think the chances of his signing elsewhere after this season, while not likely, is greater than the chances of his being traded this season.

by elesias on Oct 21, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t this the last year of his contract? So I do think Lou would move him if the right deal came along and if it were to a place Brodeur would be willing to move to.

There is nowhere else he is willing to go, period. He either plays in NJ or he doesnt play. He has said as much.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 21, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

This summer he stated it slightly differently.

He said that he has one year left in his contract, isn’t looking to move, but wanted to remain on a team that is competitive. I’ll try to find the article, but it was in the context of re-signing after this season. I recall it because I expected the same old platitudes, but he said he’d evaluate after the season. This article references playing IF the Devils wanted to move on without him.

There is a possibility that Brodeur would play beyond this season, but not for the Devils. He said the only way he sees that happening is “If I want to play and they don’t want me.”

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/130008318_Last_camp_for_Devils__Brodeur_.html

by Hockey1919 on Oct 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is a notable difference from what he said last year.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 22, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

fans almost always over judge a team's core

certainly Strome is consider a “core” player in Isles rebuild, but if he doesn’t pan out, that changes…the “8” core players is not some definition I made up, it has been around a long time (Oilers, Pens, modern Hawks to name a few)…Pierre Mcguire discussed this very definition on IBP a while back if your interested. It is easy enough though to figure out who a team’s “core” is and who are the one’s that play supporting roles but are fan favourites…looking at contracts is one way to identify a core player…for example, giving KO a 5 year deal, what all was in the deal, etc. That makes it pretty clear Isles see him as part of the core…with salary cap, you can only have so many core players, which has made the “8 core player” definition more popular…most teams, in my opinion, do not have a full core intact.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 22, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isles core to date

they locked in Grabner, KO and JT with long term, 5 year or more contracts with rising salaries…Hamonic will get a similar contract after his ECL. I suspect they will want to do same with Neilson. Those players the Isles clearly want locked up and secured through their prime years…Moulson by comparison, was only given a 3 year deal, but Moulson is also 5 or six years older than the Isles’ oldest core players. His age, and the contract are indicators of the team’s thinking, re: its “core.”

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 22, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know of the definition to which you refer but I don’t necessarily subscribe to it, thus our disagreement.

I also don’t believe one can list someone who’s never played in an NHL game as part of the team’s core. Part of the future, perhaps, but listing them as part of the team’s core is counting one’s chickens before they’re hatched.

by elesias on Oct 22, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

after Crosby and Malkin are gone, Pens will be back to rebuilding

nothing great coming up in their system…Rangers will continue to draft a good one here and there, and live by UFAs, but without their current goalie, they are not even a playoff team…Devils are headed in the opposite direction as the Isles…I think with Philly, they are literally rolling the dice on on a risking goaltender acquisition, and now players richards and carter for schenn and couturier…schenn is the better prospect, but if both prospects reach their ceiling, and the goalie pans out, Philly may very well be the Isles greatest division challenge in a few years.

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

but aren’t Crosby and Malkin (assuming injuries don’t derail them) 10 years from thinking about retiring?

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure why this isn't green

but I’ve done my part.

NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey

by Keith Quinn on Oct 19, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really hope not

I love playing them and beating them and ending their 25 game scoring streaks and such.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 19, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hope not too

as much as i hated gretzky, when you get a little older you realize you need star players in the game…it would be a real loss to lose Crosby so young…as much as Lindros was a baby, he walked away with his millions, but the league would have been better had he been playing and healthy

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 20, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed the league needs black hats as well.

Lindros was marketed perfectly as the player you loved to hate. Gretzky was marketed as the player you are supposed to worship – AND YET I HATED HIM.

Nothing better than Smitty calling Gretzky out as a whiny little B*TCH in the playoffs. That is what makes vicroty so sweet, seeing your opponents crushed when they are in their prime.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still can't believe the NHL doesn't/didn't market Datsyuk more.

Even Ovechkin deserved a little more love, he’s an exciting player too. Stamkos should be advertised more. Patrick Kane would be good to advertise, even JT one day. I hate that they focus on Crosby alone so much. Sure, he’s a great player when healthy, but he has the personality of a stick and there are a few other players that are around as fun to watch as him and have better personalities.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 20, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

THe NHL seems to have a budget to market ONE player a decade.

Once you have been selected the league is about you and everyone else is just a local personality. I think that is why Gretzky jumped through 4 teams just to increase the exposure across the league,

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two... dont forget Ovechkin.

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 20, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, One Good - One Evil.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flyers

I know they’re playing well, but I don’t think it can last. This is the year we take them.

They did add two nice prospects, plus a nice young guy in Simmonds, but from what I’ve read their cupboard was even more bare than ours was when Snow took over. I’d say we’re ahead long term, and may even have them now.

Tavares is Tavares.

by afrosupreme on Oct 19, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they have 5 players on pace for 30goal+ seasons, Giroux on pace for 60goals+.

No way they keep that offense up. They’ll level out and then we’ll see how good they can be. I’m still not a believe in them being successful yet. I’m still going with them as a playoff bubble team.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 19, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have something...

you can’t understimate…. $$$
We’re so used to laughing at the Rangers MISUSE of it, I think this off season they showed that they will use it…
Maybe two bad contracts on the team with Briere and Bryz. But they are set at forward for a good long time, and the could go asset hunting with Coburn or Carle (both expiring assets) and STILL have the best defensive corps in the division.
I hate trading in the division, but I hope Snow at least gets a request list for Coburn. If it includes a skinny russian forward or a pick package… he could help this team get to and be successful in the playoffs. If done early it would also give them CAP FLEXIBILTY at the deadline.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pronger and Timmonen are aging though, that's gonna bite them in the ass soon.

Timmonen turns 37 this year and Pronger is signed to a ~$5mil/yr cap hit into his mid-40’s. Hartnell is also overpaid and JVR hasn’t earned his noticable extension yet. Time will tell, but they definitely have their contract issues.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 19, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

have to agree

maybe couturier and schenn both reach their ceilings, but no way they replace the loss of both richards and carter this season

by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 19, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not this season, but what I hated about the deal is that it makes the Flyers peak, when we are winning Cups.

It will make the road to the Finals that much harder. Easier now, but who cares what Carter and Richards do now.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

and why we will be winning the Cup, but having to speed bump over them.

I doubt FA affects them, since they always seem to have the money and ability to hide cap space. Except in Pronger’s case which is on the books until the very last day of the contract.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

we'll

see. you have your opinion, ill stick with mine. when skill level is close, ill take the 6’4 210 pound guy over the 6’0 180 pound guy every time.

all i know is couturier is scoring goals in the NHL and strome is scoring goals in junior hockey

by ripcurl2121 on Oct 19, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is...

Martin St. Anonomly… I’d take this guy over both of them.

I love both of these guys… and they both OCMMAND RESPECT in this league.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

OBLW ME

I mean that in the most erspectful way.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I guess we'll have to garee to idsagree then.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 19, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

oh you ugys!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 19, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, I just had a feeling that Couturier could challenge for the Calder in his rookie year.

He has a lot going for him in a lot of areas. Strome still “should” have the higher offensive ceiling, but I could also see Couturier becoming another Joe Thornton. Either way, what’s done is done and we can’t change it.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 19, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've Been Impressed With The Small Sample I've Seen From Couturier

The knock on him was that he was supposed to be a poor skater with “heavy boots.” Well, he’s no Mike Modano out there, but he’s a lot better than some of these pundits led me to believe. And that’s to go along with good hands, too. Kinda like the knock on Johnny T. Look at how he’s improved his skating.

Couturier seems to be playing important minutes too. Not questioning the Strome selection at all, but Couturier might just be better than some people advertised.

by rmblifn on Oct 19, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Honestly, I thought he was the best overall forward in the draft and I created a fanpost about it:

It’s not a bad read and debate in the thread if you wanna check it out here:
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2011/5/30/2198273/sean-couturier-should-be-the-1-ranked-forward

It goes in-depthly about Couturier and analysis of him with links to other scout’s analysis.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 19, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can all agree Couturier will not win the Calder in any season, but his rookie year.

With the caveat being that he may play in more than one season as a rookie.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're winning ain't we? It's working out!

We are all Islanders, even if we’re from Jersey!

by Russel Ginart on Oct 19, 2011 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

It is working out...

but a GM needs to get in front of his potential problems. With a defensive corps that was at the heart of the 587 man games lost last year, I think DEPTH is the key issue.
Plus you need an upgrade as the season gets deeper and more demanding.
Mottau has got to go. His defensive abilities will be under the spotlinght as soon as they are forced to play from behind…aggressively and he’s left on an island a few times… that island will disappear under a tsunami of defensive mistakes.
Staios… does he have staiosing power. What will he look like after a few back to backs or 3-in-4 or 4-in-6 bursts.
Streit/MacDonald/Eaton are all coming off injury shortened seasons and will most likley benefit at some point from small three game stints to recover from bumps and bruises
Jurcina has yet to lace them up, and can he really be counted on for more than 40-45 games?
After seeing the circus in the AHL last week I have no confidence at all that any of those kids are ready for 18minutes of PLUS NHL hockey. I think Wishart can contribute, but he’s got to get back to where he was last year.
With all the damn “future assets” in the system, you’d think that somebody could engineer a deal for a 3-4 defenseman that could give you 20 minutes with Mark Streit for 50+ games. Then we’d be set. If there was one out there with no question marks, and in the 24-28 year old range I’d guess there are NHL forwards that could be made available.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course there are...........

D men available but they cost real players or prospects or piks. Unfortunately or fortunately we are off to a decent start and if it continues there is less pressure for Snow to pull the trigger on a deal which is always a crap shoot since you tend to over value the player you get and undervalue the assets you give up. Thats how a GM earns his salary. Timing is everything. Before the season started Bailey would have at the least been a considerable downpayment on a D. Comeau could probably fetch a top pair D now, but if he doesn’t wake up soon he will be another over paid forward [2.5M] I personally think Blake will find his touch, after all he only has a one year contract. And yes Snow could package some BPT prospects that might entice another GM. But it takes two sides who want to gamble. As the season progresses than teams on the bubble [probably the Isles] will have to gamble inorder for a shot at the play-offs.

by altosax on Oct 19, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buyer or Seller Beware?
you tend to over value the player you get and undervalue the assets you give up

Which is true of GMs on both sides of the trade, which is why so many trades are actually even deals. Key for a GM is to make a deal when the team is going well since he knows his teams deficiencies and not make a deal when you are playing poor to patch a glaring hole.

This is why I like that Capuano made the Comeau and Nabokov moves. He didn’t allow the idea that a team playing relatively well could not be playing better. In the case of Nabokov, you ride the hot hand in net, but at some point a goaltender is going to lose and you can’t be afraid to make the switch if y.ou feel it is the right move

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 19, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

We had discussed this in the off season

Jack is going to have a tool more powerful than any Islander coach since Al. He’s going to have a press box seat that can be filled by a 24 goal scorer. That is the only true reward guys like Rolston and Pandolfo bring. I’m not saying that it will always be Comeau, but it will allow guys like Nino and Ullstrom opportunities without venturing too far into the realm of over-exposure.
This particular time it was so that Trevor could stretch his legs, but it will be more valuable when the flexibility is used to get Nino, Ullstrom, Haley, DiBo or even Casey into that lineup… maybe even two of them.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Comeau, but he wasn't effective in the first three games.

I don’t want him scapegoated, but if a 24-goal guy can be sat, then who’s next? Keep your legs moving since there will be no passengers. I’d like to see BC back in the line-up tonight and I am hoping Cap is giving him instruction on what it will take to be back in. If it turns out this is what it takes to get his attention, then you do what is best for the team. Hell even Potvin was benched in his playing career.

Same with starting Nabokov, don’t be afraid to change things up just because you are winning, that’s how losing starts. You pretend because you are winning that there doesn’t need to be any changes. This isn’t a reflection on Montoya, but you need both (three) goaltenders to be ready and you can’t ride Montoya until he goes cold and then expect Nabokov to be ready. If Smitty and Resch could platoon, then resting your number 1 should not be an issue either.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes...

I understand both sides of the argument. As I think you understand, I can’t stand back and look at this team and say, “Oh boy, they’re ready”.
It’s been a good start, and it could continue… but the chances of them keeping this pace with the defense in the state it’s in is damn near impossible.
If you give up a forward asset there is depth, and plenty of prospects with which to recover. If a D goes down we’re f***ed.
This team performed rather well last year with MacHamonic carrying the bulk of minutes. There has been an upgrade from that standing… but there is also an opportunity as a BUYER if a SELLER is avaiable. I don’t expect much, but I just hope that Snow is open to the possibilities… and I think he is.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. This defense is not built to go into the playoffs.

At some point an upgrade is mandatory. This is true of probably every team in the NHL, but doesn’t make it less true on the Island. They may have to wait for maturity at BPT rather than a trade since most of the “Sellers” are probably looking for defenseman or the pink panther diamond.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: OPEN ICEN HITTEN

Puck Daddy has what seems to be a Jackass Video of a guy taking an open ice hit
I’d like to see that guy take a 200 foot charge into Trevor, and see who gets the worst of it.

Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!

by JPinVA on Oct 19, 2011 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

All kidding aside.............

Why can’t helmets be designed that offer more concussion protection? As an example: the helmets that bikers wear are not legal protection in States that require motorcylists to wear helmets.

by altosax on Oct 19, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's because the brain still hits the skull the same no matter the helmet

The brain is still going from 0 to 30 to 0 (Or whatever speeds) during a hit. Helmets protect the outside of the skull, but the concussion is caused by the brain against the inside of the skull. If it is helmet-to-helmet contact, it can help, but often the entire body is thrown, so the brain has no choice but to go with it.

Do I have this correct?

Of course a helmet with 3 feet of padding would most often prevent a concussion, but I don’t know if it’s possible to create a reasonably-thin helmet that would help protect against concussions.

They would have to put padding inside the skull or make the skull softer, I think, to drastically lessen the number of concussions…. But I like the route the NHL (Shan) is taking this season in that effort.

by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 19, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Using an analogy

A human head is like a raw egg. A relatively hard shell protects a loose, delicate core. Wrapping an egg in foam may protect the shell, but no matter what, the yolk will still smash against the shell if the egg falls down. Scrumbled eggs for everyone!

by Francesca on Oct 19, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that insulation foam that can be sprayed in crevices should be sprayed into players ears once they have had a concussion to stop the scrambling.

Seems the biggest problem is not direct force, which helmets do well against, but the whipping accelaration the brain takes inside the shell. Difference between an upper cut to the jaw and heading a soccer ball.

Really Hockey1219 because then the math works.

by Hockey1919 on Oct 20, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

good read

on anders lee. sounds like a beast in the making.

 but just when you get all pumped up about him, you remember that he can pull a blake kessel and a gregiore and use that crappy loophole to become a free agent. so who knows if he’ll ever play for the islanders

by ripcurl2121 on Oct 19, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Staios

has been a godsend

kudos to Garth

what else is new

by Cary K on Oct 19, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Carykus are great!

Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)

by TheMetalChick on Oct 19, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least

I don’t rant on and on in a series of unending run on sentences that seem to make a point but end up saying about 10 things, 7 of which end up being likely false in the end once the evidence is in

by Cary K on Oct 19, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah!

Yours are more like bullet points, though.

Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.

by Fabtraption on Oct 20, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aww

You forgot RANDOM USE of all caps and no respect for the white space between paragraphs, man! Come on, when having a go at JP, go all in!

Cary, I hope you know (many of us) give you trouble out of love, too. We’re all Isles fans with passion, and everyone who’s not an arsehole by default is welcome.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Oct 21, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I miss the Caryku's.

What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?

by OzzyFan on Oct 21, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

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1979-80


May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.

The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.

1980-81


May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.

Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.

1981-82


May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.

A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.

1982-83


May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.

Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.


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