Islanders Top 25 Under 25: Brock Nelson Rolls in at #12
by Dominik on Oct 14, 2011 2:43 PM EDT
in Islanders in Diapers
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With surplus draft picks to leverage -- a refreshing contrast to the pre-2008 period -- Garth Snow made a move at the end of the first round where he'd already selected Nino Niederreiter at #5: He gave up the #58 pick (late second round) to move up five slots and take Brock Nelson at #30.
Having been seen only against high school competition, at the time Nelson was seen as "charging up the draft rankings" but also a wild card due to that lower level of competition. Fellow centers Tyler Pitlick (Minn. State) and Jared Knight (London, OHL) were picked immediately after him at 31 and 31.
Now entering his sophomore year at North Dakota, Nelson's performance in college and at the World Juniors has thus far backed up the Islanders scouts' belief in him. It's also put him at #12 in our informal Islanders Top 25 Under 25 poll.
Nelson has the USA Hockey bloodlines and universally positive character reviews, but more importantly he has the mix of size, fine skills and hockey awareness that makes him a smart player in college now and a potentially important NHLer in the future.
Nelson's off to a nice start this year as a sophomore playing with two junior classmen, and you can catch him whenever UND games are aired in your area.
Our six panelists voted before training camp began, but it's safe to say we're all taken by that range of attributes Nelson possesses. Pr*j*ct*ng is hard (and highly discouraged in these parts) as each level of hockey poses new challenges that force a young player to adapt his game. But the bet here is that Nelson becomes an NHLer, one of beyond average value.
How We Voted
| Top 25 Under 25 | mikb | M11 | CIL | Dom | KQ | Web/Mark |
| Brock Nelson |
17 | 15 | 8 | 14 | 11 | 11 |
For this first edition, we polled LHH authors Keith, WebBard (Mark D), mikb, myself, and two particularly prospect-focused LHH regulars, CanadianIslesLifer and MatthewM11. We wanted enough to get a decent number of voters but not so much that we make the first run unwieldy. It is absolutely unscientific but with varied enough votes to get us thinking.
Previous Posts in This Top 25 Islanders Under 25 Series
- Those who didn't make the Top 25
- #25: Anton Klementyev, D
- #24: Not to be Pedantic, but is it Andrei or Andrey Pedan, D
- #23: Mark Katic (D) shoulders the burden
- #22: Rhett Rakhshani (W)
- #21: Matt Martin (LW), budding 'stache
- #20: Johan Sundström, C
- #19: David Ullström, C/W
- #18: Scott Mayfield, D
- #17: Kirill "A" Petrov, W
- #16: Feisty Casey Cizikas, C
- #15: Towering Anders Nilsson, G
- #14: Roloson Reward Ty Wishart, D
- #13: Okalhoman Matt Donovan, D
The Top 25 under 25 is an idea conceived (I think) by Oilers blog Copper & Blue and copied elsewhere, incorporated here by popular demand. We cut it off at players who were under 25 going into this season, so Andrew MacDonald, having just turned 25 this month, barely misses eligibility.
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"Blessed are the cheesemakers....
or really the makers of any diary product…"
by 4PeatSake on Oct 14, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The meek shall inherit the earth
"Oh that’s nice innit, I’m glad they get something, ’cause they have a hell of a time."
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
#20 for me
Had a solid freshman year, and seems to be off to a good start this year. But he’s still a few seasons off, so I have him a little lower.
Tavares is Tavares.
I think his growth has sped up
NHL ready body. He looks good on both sides of the puck. There’s no rushing him of course but he is could make the NHL next year if that is what he wants. I might have had him that low midway through last season but he’s really showed some offensive flair end of last season and so far this year. Guys his size shouldn’t be able to dangle like that.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
He was great in There Will be Blood
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
I can't look at these draft pictures...
without seeing Kabanov.
by TA on Oct 14, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
21 on my list
Somewhere between Lee(19) and Petrov(23) in the forward category. That range (#12) is reserved for the likes of Ullstrom(11) and Martin(14). A little bit more “seasoned” and chugging away in their professional careers.
I think this is an important year for Nelson and the team named Sioux. An outstanding sophomore year and he has an interesting decision to make. The Islanders will have a mad rush for NHL and AHL spots next year with Kabanov, Strome, Petrov and longshot Lee(only because he verbally comitted to four years at Our Lady of the Touchdown Jesus) joining the Rev.
Once again I say… COMPETITION IS GREAT! I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two of these guys are dealt at the deadline if the right D is available.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
I was just thinkin'...
how nice it would be to be buyers at the deadline, instead of sellers. It’s been a while.
by CloseCallJiggs on Oct 14, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Why wait for the deadline?
We could use D help now, – don’t be fooled by the few GAs so far, we are thin at that position and the guys down at the Bridge are not the stuff of play -off contenders. They are undersized AHLers. Wish apparently gets no respect from Snow, and might not make it thru reentry waivers.
That's why Wishart will be an injury replacement if he does get called up
Because he will not have to go through re-entry waivers to replace an injured player. He’ll have to prove he’s a better candidate than Reese and the “undersized AHLers” first. His height and weight measurables are clearly not the only thing his coaches and management judge him on unlike some fans might.
Maybe they should move P.A. to defense since he's clearly not top line material
Does Not GoThrough Re-Entry Waviers Coming Back Up Due to Two-Way Salary
(Wishart) He has a minor league salary of 62,500, which was mentioned in a another blog, so since he is below the 105,000 level, he is not exposed to waivers going back, if I understand Annacurt and Dominick correctly.
He shoots...he scoororreessss....Go Islanders!!!!!
by Isles in NC on Oct 17, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What other teams likely want to trade a top 4 D now and for what?
Even the teams who realize they are rebuilding still need to see what they have before they start dealing players away for future prospects. Maybe they’ll surprise and end up battling for a playoff spot and will need that top 4 D man because the fans will surely not appreciate them dealing him away for the Islanders package of…let me guess, Josh Bailey and a bag of pucks? Garth can’t force teams to deal him a player now just because some fans are antsier than others. Things need to play out until an opportunity arises to strike. Even then, that top 4 D man just might not become available. Will the current D hit some rough patches. Very likely, but if the team is in playoff contention come the new year and nobody has stepped up internally, it will be realistic to expect some type of upgrade between then and the trade deadline.
by Boheme on Oct 15, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
To steal Alexander Keith's Beer tag line
Those who like it (him). like it (him) a lot. I like him a lot. # 8 on my list, just outside our elite players- prospects. Ahead of Poulin, Bailey, Lee and DeHann. He will be a key part of our Stanley Cup winning team.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
Speaking of Prospects
The Pioneers play tonight on CBS SD vs Boston College, a chance to see Scott Mayfield #2.
Brock too
UND is on Fox College Sports at 8:30. Mayfield’s game is on in HD on time warner cable nyc channel 467
This is channel 412 in Nassau county
and it works!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Thanks for the tip
I try to watch as many college games featuring Isle prospects as possible. Thanks for reminding me to start TVoing games
Not gonna lie
I’m really surprised by how high ya’ll are on Anders Lee. I didn’t know he would be so close (or even in!) the top 10.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
Lee #19 on my list
Lee would be higher on my list, but he said he was going to stay at Notre Dame for four years, which means the Isles won’t see him until 2014-15… I hope by that time it’ll be close to impossible to break the top 9.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
That could also help him
He is certainly taking his time, spending an extra year in the USHL before even going to UND, so he will be an old rookie by the time he makes his debut, if he ever does. Some guys can’t wait to get the NHL, whereas I would worry about Lee going to Law School if they had hockey programs, just for the extra devolopment time. Most guys hate not making a team out of camp and going to the AHL, Lee might insist on it.
Seriously though, Snow seems a little hesitent to start a bunch of rookies in the NHL at the same time so maybe Lee is staggering himself perfectly. Hopefully we will not have very high first round picks for a while so by the time Lee is ready, in 2021, we will be happy to have some fresh blood.
It's the line...
that Dom talks about when warning about the dangers of the rebuild. They have three really good drafts, plus Moulson, Grabner and some young guys that are just hitting their prime. They don’t need to rush kids anymore… but guys in the AHL at 24 and 25 aren’t safely snuggled in the nest. There’ll be no room for Rolston’s and Pandolfo’s next year. Casey is going to press for a job… along with Ullstrom.
I’m watching the soundtigers right now, and trying to imagine them with Petrov and Kabanov next year.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
You base off potential or likelyhood or closeness to potential or nhl closeness or combo?
Based on potential, I think he’s top 10.
For me, based on potential ceiling for forwards:
1-Strome
2-Nino
3-Kabanov
4-Lee
5-Nelson
(Petrov I don’t know what to think of at this point. The offense and size I “hear” are there, but reports from last year say the D isn’t completely there yet and he is in the KHL so it’s hard to judge).
Unless this list includes JT and Hamonic and others.
Then there is comparing/debating with the high-high ranked/ceiling D (mainly DeHaan/Donovan/Mayfield). And then the goalies (Poulin/Nilsson-maybe, and Mikko who has dropped like a rock).
I’d say definitely top 10 for Lee.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I think I would rank those 5 the same way
spoiler alert: I ranked Lee pretty high on my list, but its worth remembering he was an old freshman with previous USHL experience, and with that in mind I think Lee and Nelson are a lot closer than the numbers might suggest. I think you could argue that Nelson has the higher ceiling, but Lee is further along and IMO has a better chance of becoming an NHLer. I feel Lee will be one of those guys who makes the NHL and contributes without ever being a star, or even household name outside of LI. Paired with the right linemates its easy to see him producing.
BTW re: Petrov
I completely agree, to me he’s like a bonus prospect – if he makes the NHL and does well it will be like “oh yeah, we drafted that guy, I amost forgot” while if he doesn’t I would feel that the odds had been stacked against him from the beginning, so no major dissapointment. I don’t know as much about him as others because I haven’t seen him play much so I can only go off of what I read.
by MatthewM11 on Oct 14, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I'm not even sure we should throw Petrov in any category because we barely hear/see him and because of all the problems he's had getting here.
But his recent production does grab the eye, let’s see if he can keep it us as much as possible throughout the season though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
To be completely honest, I see Lee as someone that people thought Okposo should have been.
A power forward: throwing the body a lot, driving the net, unleashing his hard shot a lot, playing above average defense, owning board battles, etc. For me it’s just a question if we should expect a 3rd line or top 6 production, probably somewhere around 23goals/40pts I’d guess, but the other stuff Lee is going to do is gonna make him so valuable. “The stuff you don’t see on the score sheet Howie”, lol.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Anders Lee
Great high school athlete who forgoes football after graduation to concentrate full time on hockey. Dominates first year in USHL. Leads his team which makes the frozen four in goals as a freshman, and is named Alternate captain as a sophomore. Seems like there’s plenty there to be high on
Nelson
I really like this kid and see him as much more versatile than most forward prospects we have. I got beat up a little over the summer in a post where I mentioned I saw him as a third line forward as his likely ceiling, I now think I was underrating him at the time. I was thinking about our talent at center and his defensive versatility, but his upside is higher. It can be tempting to just look at his stats from last year and feel that his freshnan year was dissapointing for a prospect of his draftvpedigree. Watching him play its easy to see that this isn’t accurate. He has a fair bit of offensive upside, and last year didn’t see the ice-time, assignments or PP time to show what he can do offensivly. Said to be very good two-way player and from the games I saw last year I would definately concur.
He was a Freshman on a very deep team
Plus there is a big jump from HS hockey to College. He made enough progress in the last half to really feel good about this kid. He was a surprise pick for the US Juniors team which speaks well to him too. He was also probably the best player at the Blue & White. I also saw him in a 3rd line role but his offensive tools have really developed. He could be the perfect 2nd line center if he continues to develop this way. I also think he’s close to a lock as an NHLer at this point (even if it ends up being bottom six). Size, skill, and smarts.
No Sleep 'til....Belmont?
Not a bad thing though
To have a player of his quality as a 3rd line center. With his skill set and defensive awareness a 3rd line center role might be the perfect solution for him.
agree with most of what you two have said. he was one of the best players at the blue & white and the fact that he has worked on getting stronger makes me think that he, and as someone mentioned about Donovan, has understood what he needs to work on in order to make the big league in the future.
A third line center- kind of like Jordan Staal
On a team very deep at center he could play 3rd line, but a second or even 1st line center on some teams. Brock has all the tools and more offensive upside than we first thought.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
by since70too on Oct 15, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly
I am beginning to consider my number for the Rev a litle low. Forgive me my unbelief. The photo itself should have been worth two more spots.
We may be in the box, but you get the penalty.
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
Non-hockey scribblings at nightflyblog
by mikb on Oct 14, 2011 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nelson
Big, physical, skilled, can skate, can dangle, likes to go through ppl…I too am high on Nelson…I think he is an important part of the rebuild…he is part of the grinders who will join KO and Martin in the second wave of prospects…Dibo, Cizikas, Nino, Nelson, Lee, Petrov, Sundtrom and Mayfield and Pedan on D to go with Hamonic.
I feel Nelson as a prospect is just a notch above Lee, or will be when all is said and done. He’s a centre, but has been playing left wing in NCAA lately. I wonder if the Isles were involved in this decision, or was it just his NCAA team…
When trying to analyze and figure out the Isles rebuild plan, as well as changes that happen in the plans for very reasons (stop-gaps performing better than expected for one) - if you look @ the Dynasty Isles, the team really was not that big down centre, but very skilled…Trottier was physical though, no question there….Sutter was 5’11, he was average size at best giving the times, and while Sutter was only a centre for the last two of four cups and the fifth straight cup final appearance as well, the other centres, Wayne Merrick whom Bailey reminds me of, was average size, and Butch Goring was clearly below average size, and of course, Pat Lafontaine was an Isles’ centre for the fifth and final straight cup appearance….JT, Strome and Nielson if he can be locked in are clearly the top 3 Isles centres, Bailey would give the Isles an embarrassment of riches if he gets it all together, and no reason to give up on him yet: At centre, which should compete with any team in a few years…plus Cizikas and Ullstrom battling for the 4th line centre position.
What’s the comparison? The Dynasty had skilled centres, and very big and physical wingers! Other than Bossy, and Anders Kallur who was also a great PKer, you had Gillies, Tonelli, Bourne, from Howat to Gilbert down the left side, and Nystrom and Dog Sutter on the right side…not two mention four of the top 6 D could play physical and fight…
Give or take a player here and there, that is where i think the Isles are…they need the grinders on the wings, most are probably already in the organization and developing…If both Nelson and Lee are on the left Wing, that will definately increase the hitting and give some relief to the centres…two things I think Isles have to do is continue to draft big physical wingers who can skate, play hockey and drop the gloves, and second, continue to draft Defenseman who fit the same build. I am convinced that a bona fide number one D, someone who is clearly a top 5 Dman in the league, is a necessary component to be a top team every year. I am also convinced that that player will either come through the draft, or UFA once the Isles have everything else in place…that is why I am not big on trading prospects. Keep building depth, trade a stop gap or two when you have depth to fill a hole…like Comeau to fill the need for a 4th and 5th Dman Isles now need. Isles have prospect depth, but not enough where they can start trading them away. Need to be patient and figure out what we have, who will make it, who will not.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 14, 2011 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Everyone seems concerned about too many centers, not enough positions
But our cup winning teams had nearly two centers on every line. Bourne, Henning, Tambellini and Billy Carroll were all centers who played primary minutes on the wings.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
It's not 1984 anymore...
I loved the Cup teams, and as much fun as it is to hear those names and conjure up memories, comparing now to then probably is not a very useful comparison. It would be more applicable if people spent time comparing us to the past 4 cup winners instead of those 4 cup winners. Or those who are considered the top contenders for this year. I’m not saying depth is not important, because obviously it is, but the sport is entirely different now so comparing current Islanders to Islanders legends is a tough proposition.
Actually, this is a pet peeve of mine...everyone, even my long gone grandmother can not come back
It is more than just pointing out the obvious…the old Oilers are not coming back either
…IT IS, LITERALLY, the template…yes, the template that one uses, and the players roles’ are the comparisons…
example: comparing Cizikas puck control along the boards to Tonelli…no one in their right mind is saying he’s going to be Tonelli, but to tell fans, scouts etc., that that is not a realistic comparison is not only stating the obvious, it ignores the fact that building a team requires all types of talents, roles, abilities…another example: the “8 core players theory” [5 forwards, two must be centres, 2 D, 1 goalie]" started with the Oilers, it is still a template that is discussed, and used…
and while the Dynasty Isles are long since retired, the template for building that team is very much applicable today…I would even say you can see the influence from guys like Ken Morrow…it just makes no sense to me at all to dismiss a building template from any team that has proven success, several teams have used parts of the Isles dynasty as a building model…this is also part of the Isles’ identity, and IMHO, getting back to that identity is what needs to happen. The Flyers will never again be the Broad Street Bully’s like the 70s, but they for the most part have kept their identity, and that has made them one of the more marketable teams outside of their own fan base…
I would say, any successful team with a template that stressed skilled centres, big physical grinding wingers, with 1 to 3 offensive wingers who are not physical but know positional defense, solid goaltending with depth, some skilled D, some physical D, and one or two with both…that very much is the Dynasty Isles, and while this Isles team will never be expected to match them, that team description is the same…which is yet again why the Dynasty Isles do make a good template for this team.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 15, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea
And Strome strikes me as someone who could make that transition too.
Tavares is Tavares.
by afrosupreme on Oct 15, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
This is a really good analysis. Everything in here seems right on to me, all the points about where are they at center, the need for a true top D-man, all of it.
And just for the record, Brent Sutter did play half the season on the second cup team, but I guess you’re pointing out he played on the wing that first year here? if so, I didn’t even recall that. I thought I remembered him at center throughout, but then I was in Texas that year. And your Merrick/Bailey comparison is interesting. I have always seen the kid more in the Sutter mold, I guess I saw a little more scoring potential in him. But at this point, if Bailey ends up giving this team for 10 years what Merrick gave it, that’s more than good enough.
Helleva job here, man.
Whoa nellie.
My memory fails. I just checked the record and you were absolutely right.
Sutter’s half-season was in the third cup year, not the second as I said.
Sorry about that. Clearly, I should check first, before second guessing your memory.
thanks dose
read your second post, i was just about to look it up, but you beat me too it…that is really how i see it though, this team and organization is going to be loaded with skilled centres, which is why the Dynasty Isles actually do make a good building template…the big grinding wingers are coming soon! I can’t wait to be honest. I think the team already has the centres and the goalies.
by CanadianIsleslifer on Oct 15, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Because we BELIEVE. Hallelujah!
Oh- and also what ogam said below.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 15, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the POSE in that very draft photo above, BillyMac -
the way he causes the curtain to be equally parted and angle of his hands/arms…..
In memoriam: Virginia Ariel Cayon 1927-2011 R.I.P. Mom
And Brock is probably thankful
It is only a nickname in our little LHH world. Not sure a 20 year old kid would think it very cool.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
Ha, no doubt
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Moved to Wing
I thought I read that Nelson started the season as a wing man.
"Excuse me, but have you met my friend Kirill Kabanov, the next russian Wayne Gretzky. Kirill is what you'd call a future millionaire. He is an excellent hockey player and has many tattoos. Why don't you and him go to back so he can show you them (wink)."
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
