Islanders 2, Wild 1: Early lead and big penalty kill key 1st win
by Dominik on Oct 10, 2011 3:59 PM EDT
in New York Islanders Game Recaps
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The Islanders rode an early lead and a dominant first period all the way to their first two points of the season.
But eight minor penalties by seven different Islanders meant getting there required a lot of trench work just to hold on for a 2-1 win over the Wild on Kids Day afternoon at the Coliseum.
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The key was heroic penalty killing by the Islanders -- only four Wild PP shots hit the net, including just one on a 44-second-long 5-on-3. That work was typified by an inside-of-the-boot (ouch) shot block by Travis Hamonic at point-blank range mid-way through the 3rd period.
At forward, Jay Pandolfo led the way (4:30) with Brian Rolston, Marty Reasoner and Frans Nielsen each also logging well over three minutes of PK time. Great work to cover up for a collective failure to stay out of the box. [Evening edit: Upon further review, some of those penalty calls were flat-out awful, including Marty Reasoner's hook that created the 5-on-3 -- and came milliseconds after the same man tied their sticks up with a downward slash.]
Game Highlights
An Early Lead
On one of just three Islanders powerplay opportunities of the day, Andrew MacDonald cashed in quickly half-way through the first period by identifying a thickening screen on Niklas Backstrom and placing his point shot just inside the far post.
Under two minutes later, the John Tavares line at the end of its shift helped hem the Wild in, a fortunate bounce ensured the puck stayed in through the beginning of their line change, and P.A. Parenteau won the puck along the boards back to Mark Streit. Streit, working with space, slap-passed to Frans Nielsen's awaiting backhand, which redirected the puck cooly into the top corner for the 2-0 lead and, ultimately, the game-winning goal.
Or, as hockeyisland put it in our LHH game thread:
Can't believe I just witnessed
a swiss slap pass of splendor right to a wide open danish back hand of judgment...
(Maybe you had to be there, but in the moment that made my day.)
The Game Gets Closer
The ice was, in the parlance of our times, tilted in favor of the Islanders for most of the first period, with shots 9-2. That produced a 2-0 lead but also a timeout from Jack Capuano as the Wild started to take control toward the end of the first. The second period brought the Islanders penalty parade -- four minors in that frame alone -- reflecting a reversal in the flow of play and a 10-2 shot advantage for the Wild.
After surviving that you might've thought the Islanders would bounce back in the third, but that thought was cut off just over a minute in with the the Wild's only goal:
John Tavares got a little too dangerous with the puck at the Wild blueline, forcing a tricky play for Steve Staios who was unable to keep it in the zone, leading to a break the other way. Staios stayed apace with puck carrier Guillaume Latendresse and the puck bobbled on him -- which is where some real ingenuity came into play. Latendresse dropped it back to Matt Cullen, who whacked a still-wobbly puck over Al Montoya's shoulder. The rough ice nearly sabotaged the play but in the end helped ensure its success.
Montoya was good in making 20 saves, but his PK teammates were also huge in keeping so few Wild shots from hitting the net. It looked like the 5-on-3 kill was also aided by some choppy ice that kept the Wild from settling the puck as much as you'd expect the "hands" unit to be able to do.
Travis Hamonic was a beast: Led the team in TOI (23:16), put four shots on goal, blocked three, drew a penalty -- yes, the kid is alright at age 21. I guess.
Holding On: The Siren Song of the Empty Net
Wild coach Mike Yeo pulled his goalie early to try to get that equalizer, but for the Islanders on the ice, led first by Blake Comeau and followed by Kyle Okposo, Frans Nielsen and Michael Grabner, that empty net was a rocky place where their seed could find no purchase.
Empty nets are a funny thing: If you can hit the spot, great! Go for it. Relinquish the puck and ice the game. But everyone has to identify that thin line between while also exhibiting smart puck management. For the most part the Isles did that, keeping the Wild on their heels and not forcing shots. Comeau did try to put it through Jared Spurgeon -- it's just little Spurgeon! -- from center ice, but Spurgeon was bigger than that and blocked it. Grabner almost completed a wraparound -- four Wild skates somehow kept it out -- and finally iced the game with the smartest play of all: A soft, banked dump off the boards from his blueline rather than anything that risked an icing and late faceoff.
It was a hectic second period and a hectic finish, but in the end you have the Islanders' first victory of the season. Plus, plenty more to work on between now and Thursday, when the much better Lightning visit next.
Note: Go ahead and get your plus/minus on and usual routine in this thread. The game thread's all filled up, and day games always disrupt the schedule anyway.
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Plus
Holding the lead. Maybe last year the game gets to OT.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 10, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
absolutely
this game goes into OT last year, with a loss to follow
Maybe, but
The Islanders were 19-3-5 last year when leading after two. That percentage was 29th in the league, but still…lot of teams ended up with 5, 6, 7 or 8 non-wins in that scenario. They were one of six teams to have 5 OTLs after entering the second period with the lead.
To the extent that was a problem beyond “not-good roster,” I don’t know if today shows much. Their PK was excellent, but they were playing with fire going to the box like that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
interesting
good to see the stat. seems like for years I’ve only felt comfortable with a 2 goal lead because we’d at least make it to overtime, hehe…
I truly think it's a symptom/fear of most fans
It’s natural. And the weaker a team is, the more likely they are to give up goals at any point in the game — first, second or third.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I can't even plus/minus this game
because I feel like it was mostly a couple pluses and a lot of neutrals. So instead I’ll bore you with some observations from the game:
-until he loses us a game or we have back to back games, I think Montoya should stay in net. He easily won us the game today.
-John Tavares is going to have one hell of a season. He’s finally creating his own scoring chances consistently. Not long til the puck starts finding the back of the net.
-The penalty kill looks great but they shouldn’t be out there so much if we stop…
-Taking way too many stupid penalties, leaving us at a disadvantage for too much of the game
-It still looks like we can’t find a second gear, but I realize its only Game 2 of the season.
-besides a nice play or two defensively, Josh Bailey still looks lost
-Blake Comeau noticeably played the body today and went after loose pucks. That said, he needs to be more aggressive offensively.
-the old men on the blueline can get undressed at any time and against the better offenses in the league, thats going to be a problem.
-we’re tied with the Rangers (with the tiebreaker!)
mocking opposing announcers and their horrible commentary since '89
Agree 100% re: Tavares, Bailey
Tavares’ game seems elevated to yet another tier, in fact that whole line has looked outstanding.
by MatthewM11 on Oct 10, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder
-It still looks like we can’t find a second gear, but I realize its only Game 2 of the season.
Could that be based on the way they played split squad and not too many pre-season games?
The leafs mascot is so frickin CUTE.
I cannot believe he murdered Nyisles. :(
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 10, 2011 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's how they fool ya
All cute and innocent.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Bolts
I didn’t even know they had the mascot. The bug was the best one they had there.
by dunnowhat2type on Oct 10, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats to the following Isles (placements are based on Isles all-time):
F. Nielsen: 38th G (T-65th w. B. Lauer) and 121st PT (T-59 with J. Taveras and B. Comeau)
A. MacDonald: 6th G (T-181 w. Z. Chara and several others) and 35th PT (T-146 w. J. Vasicek and B. Witt)
M. Streit: 79th A (T-63 w. S. Lachance) and 106th PT (68th, one pt behind D. Langevin)
P.A. Parenteau: 34th and 35th A (118, 1 behind T. Linden, J. Reekie, et al.) and 54th and 55th PT (T-110 w. R. Lorimer)
T. Hamonic: 22nd A (T-149 w. J. Weimer) and 27th PT (T-162 w. B. Sopel)
by Hey Hanrahan on Oct 10, 2011 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Fear of commitment
Commercially reasonable efforts, when I remember, res ipsa loquitur, disclaimer of consequential damages, legal jargon, in vino veritas, etc.
In other words, I’ll try to do it on a regular basis, can’t promise, small kids, yada yada.
by Hey Hanrahan on Oct 10, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Commitment
Is team’s theme his season.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 10, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If You've Managed to Remain an Islanders Fan Over the Past 20 Years ....
You should be committed. Oops, no, I mean you ARE committed.
by rmblifn on Oct 10, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Very cool.
Nice disclaimer, too.
If I have one wish as a Frans Fanboy, it is that he pass Brad Lauer.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
your handle is great..
i’m assuming you’re a slap shot fan?
"son of a bitch i'm sick of these dolphins"
- Steve Zissou
Isn't everyone?
First watched it with my wife Suzanne. Are you familiar with her sexual orientation?
by Hey Hanrahan on Oct 11, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It’s true!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Yeah, this is really cool
Informative and entertaining (Joe Reekie? Jesus Christ)
"He's depriving some small village of a pretty good idiot" - Mike Milbury on Ziggy Palffy's agent. On Twitter: @Dan_of_Science
Yeah, I get a kick out of seeing where current Isles are in terms of franchise lists.
How close some of our young pups are to top 50 in some metrics says a lot about personnel turnover in the last 20 years or so. It’s frightening. It’s also neat from a nostalgia point of view to see some of the random names of the past.
by Hey Hanrahan on Oct 10, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Couple quick positives I noticed:
-Eaton seemed to have a good bounce back game. I recall 3 or 4 times I said to myself, really nice defensive play Eaton.
-Tavares has incredible hands. That 1 time he was playing keep away along the boards in the o-zone with little room was very datsyukian-esque.
And just a quick, I hope Cap knows what he’s doing and is on the same page goalie situation wise as snow. If Nab is never gonna get a start in the first month(guessing so far given Montoya’s starts sequence), why keep him up?
And if Montoya is the best we got, why against the 2 worst offense’s and teams from last year? Especially given how lethal the Bolts and Rangers offenses should be?
I am not sure how this is gonna play out exactly. I think if DP of the pre-season(small sample) or maybe even Nab of the past, we’d have the same outcome on both games. There wasn’t really any need for amazing saves that would have changed either of those games’ outcomes.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
And if Montoya is the best we got, why against the 2 worst offense’s and teams from last year? Especially given how lethal the Bolts and Rangers offenses should be?
What makes you think he won’t start these games also? Maybe Cappy has an idea who’s better and plans on using a traditional goalie GP breakdown.
DP isn’t going down because that is just a shitshow waiting to happen…and there’s already 3 goalies down there. Nabby because someone will claim him, and because there’s 3 goalies down there. I mean, so far Montoya has an (estimated).942/1.50…tough to say that either Nabby or DP would have done the same thing isn’t it? (Seriously, search your soul…isn’t it?)
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
You're right. Capuano may start Montoya again.
If he isn’t even gonna play the 3rd goalie(Nab it looks), riding Montoya like he would be the starter is the smart decision. I still don’t like the idea of “plausibly” not playing DP against the really weak on paper Minnessota offense and then running Monty back to back against the bolts and rags thurs/sat. It could still happen, I just don’t think Cap is gonna run Monty like that.
I obviously know the ahl is never gonna happen with any of them for obvious reasons.
And on the stats I don’t know. Do I think we lose Saturday again if DP or Nab is in net? Yes
Do I think we win today’s game if DP is in net? Yes. Monty really wasn’t challenged much today. Lots of routine saves and maybe 1 or 2 tougher saves, but no 1-timers or hard rebounds or anything like that.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Today
was the classic type of game that DP fails spectacularly in. Ones where he gets no action and cannot maintain his focus through those stretches, usually leading to either a soft goal and/or a freelancing play that costs us. I could easily see that first period being one of those outshoot them 9-2, only lead 2-1 kind of deals.
Thought about that too
can DP actually be effective if the team is really limiting shots and he doesn’t feel engaged? Does that bring out the inner wanderer?
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Avoid the carousel
I’m guessing Capuano has made the decision to stick with Montoya, figuring if Montoya shat the bed against these ‘bubble’ teams, he would try something different. I for one would be thankful if the decision to try something different gets postponed for a while.
Success was survival and, kid, it still is
by IslesFanInNJ on Oct 10, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Flip-side of that
If Montoya is the best we got, why sit him for the first two games of the season? Why have him not see games for two weeks? I don’t think there’s much to go on here yet.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Yeah. I don't know. I just feel that with the stretch of games we are going to have right now:
2 non-playoff teams in our 1st 2gms, then 3 straight games against playoff teams, I’d want the weaker goalie to play against the easier team. Especially given how early we are into the season. But there is way too little to go on right now.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Ozzy, I can tell you really are a DP fan...
You want him to be the guy, dont you???
Well, not the guy.
Since he is as healthy as he’s been in forever, I want him exposed somewhat, for better or worse. I know that the goal is “the playoffs”, but if this team we are icing makes the playoffs, I doubt we go deeper then the 1st round, barring an injury hurt team opposite us in the first round, unless we get some big positive surprises. That’s just the way I see it.
So because of that, I “want” the DP situation solved “this” year. Playing DP in 15-30gms, say ~20-25 given what we’re looking at, this year as the backup doesn’t really help us find out much about DP, aside from what he can do in a backup role. That leaves us with a $4.5mil/yr backup goalie going into next year, and if it continues, a $4.5mil/yr backup goalie for another 10yrs. Eventually we are gonna be a cap floor team, and his contract is gonna be a hinderance as a backup if so.
Main point, do we want to continue the “DP experiment” into next year with a question mark or a possible lifetime $4.5mil/yr contract for our backup goalie?
I don’t know if I should call it positive our negative outlook/thinking, but I want DP to either become our starting or 40/40 split goalie, or play himself into retirement from being unable to play at a high level. Mostly because of that contract and cap hit. Sure, it’s not a big hinderance now, but it “could be” the difference of signing that extra top 4 d-man that we need or having a mottau take his spot due to cap problems.
That said, I don’t have a ton of faith in Montoya lasting like this over the course of a full season either. He was never very impressive ever “overall” in his college career or his ahl career, both places he has ~.900 career save percentages. Just to throw some more stats out, in his pro hockey career, Monty has only started more then 40gms in a season twice. As we all know, good/regular starting goalies are expected to start 55-60gms+/yr at a decent level so the team doesn’t have to overplay their backup and so the team has their best goalie in as much as possible without hindering the goalie’s performance. That and the ahl track record scares me. I don’t know if it’s a confidence thing or want, but I just don’t feel a ton more confident giving Montoya 60 starts over Poulin(bad example, but whatever, I don’t have much to deal with). Obviously I don’t know if DP’s body would hold up dealing with that either, but if DP breaks DP breaks, so it’s a different scenario. Durability is somewhat a concern for Monty too, especially that given “when” he was in that 40-50gm range for the year playing in the world classics(right tourney?) he injured himself. That and maintaining his performance at a high level is concerning.
Then again, we don’t have many options anyway.
As you can see, the goalie situation in my head is a real cluster*uck. Nabokov imo is never gonna get into great game shape sitting around like we have him and only playing in practices. DP is never gonna find his groove or game sharing a net with Nabokov in practices and imo will only deteriorate his game by doing so. Also, we will never know if we have anything more then a medicore or good backup in DP if we ride Montoya for most of the season. 25-30starts from DP staying healthy and playing at an average+ level tells us nothing about his future with us, thus carrying the DP debacle ongoing. Monty is obviously the best in Cap’s eyes imo, but Cap might be using him wrong. I personally don’t believe Monty has either the durability to start 55-60gms+/yr or the ability to keep his stats/play up at a high level for that long. Maybe/hopefully I think he can be at best average playing around 40-50gms/yr, more then that or even a rough streak here or there(expected) may even hurt him more.
Because of those things, I believe it’s best to start DP half the time and Monty half the time. Monty “should” be able to start 40gms at a high level. We “should” be able to know where we are with DP “if” he starts 40gms this year or is scheduled to and his breakdowns along the way. DP’s body isn’t tested in a backup role enough for us to know what to do with him after this year. And Nabokov should just be cut loose. Honestly, goalies what Nab can likely bring at this point in his career/health/routine are likely aplenty. Who’s to say Nab can even play at a .905 level given how crappy he was last year playing healthy? Sure, it “may” cost us the playoffs this year, and it “may” cost us some points in the standings, but imo it’s for the best of this team’s future. Who wants to carry the DP question mark along another year? Especially when we are 1-step better overall as a team, and 1-step closer to cup contention. Short term, starting Monty as much as possible makes sense, but imo it hurts us in the long term more then it helps us in the short term given the DP situation.
But it’s so early this is just guessing. But from what I’ve seen, I think Cappy is gonna ride Montoya for as long as he can because he wants to win and keep his job. Even if Monty is just a bit better then DP(not that we know), he’ll run him till he’s ice cold, for better or worse.
Thoughts and comments please. I want responses because I doubt I’m the only one thinking about the longterm and short term consequences of keeping DP in a backup role the whole year or carrying the DP question marks over a year or all the possible and likely scenarios of our goalie situation happenings this year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This is what is happening with Bailey atm.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
That can relate to a number of things with what I've wrote. Which particular ones did you want to relate Bailey's situation to?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
The idea of using Bailey this year to show what he has so that it's not a question in the future:
This is his year to prove himself. Strome’s coming for that spot by next year.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
On that note
If they do want to try Strome at wing (some scuttlebutt of that around the draft, no idea how legit), it’d be really nice to know if they were insured to do that.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Doubt it. If they were going to try it, they'd have done it preseason.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Given his use so far, it looks like they aren't gonna Bailey him.
And I agree, this should be Bailey’s year to show it or go. He has no more excuses. If he doesn’t have it this year, it’s time to just get rid of him, we shouldn’t continue the experiment at the cost of the team’s success, same with the DP situation. Figure it out now, not in the future when we are a better team, a “should-be” playoff caliber team and 1 step closer to a cup contender.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Wow. That's a lot.
I’m all DP talked out, sorry. I’ve wanted it resolved as quickly as possible, for as long as I can remember. I don’t think two games or one month affects that. I thought they’d learn plenty enough last season, but then the face and more knee swelling.
So this was a surgery-free summer. So he should get his reps, even in backup role, and we’ll know.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 11, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think so, but maybe.
Playing DP in the backup role doesn’t test his body nearly enough as it needs to be tested imo. And testing DP in a backup role only shows us how he would do as a backup, not as a starter(like he is getting paid). And practice only hurts DP’s abilities imo, making him have to share a net with Nab, losing him reps and practice time. I just don’t think it’s enough at all for us to go forward with “unless” the team feels happy with playing him in a full backup role for the next 10yrs of his contract, which would be a noticable negative as I pointed out above for at least 1 reason, likely multiple.
I’d rather run him till he retires or run him hard to see if he can maintain an nhl starting job playing well. I’d “hate”, for lack of a better term, dealing with DP the sideshow $4.5mil/yr backup goalie mistake squandering around for the next 10yrs playing 20-30gms/yr and collecting his paycheck while eventually hurting our cap situation noticably. “Technically” he even hurts our cap situation now because we can’t use that extra money towards bettering the team or because he isn’t “earning” his money per say by playing the backup role. Everytime I just think about it, any which way, it’s an extremely complicated situation depending on which way it pans out and which way the team decides to deal with it. And making DP the backup goalie for the next decade, which I’m sure he’d love paycheck wise and staying with the team wise, but it’s by far the worst possible scenario besides buying him out. Even ahling him would be better then having him as a backup for the next 10yrs with that cap hit.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I'm only interested in testing him like a starter if he plays like a starter
And to me that means performing well as a backup first.
Stop 31 saves in a 2-1 win? Earn another start. Do it two times in three consecutive games? Earn more starts. Body withstand that for two months without incident? We might have more than a backup. But then he can’t even play well as a backup while being “healthy” too? Then we have the other answer.
I think 82 games is long enough for that opportunity to emerge naturally, if ever.
But it’s definitely complicated.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 11, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't think Cap is gonna do that unless Monty runs ice cold though.
I’m too worried that Cap is going to play Monty to keep his job. Say it folds out like this:
Monty maintains a .918 save percentage till the beginning of February, during that time DP gets spot duty as a backup, playing once every 7gms(like a normal backup) and throwing up a .918. Just for an example. Do you start the guy who did it repeatedly or who did it in spot duty? You ride montoya obviously if you want to win. DP just doesn’t have to do good, he has to out play Montoya noticably “in less starts”, “in spot duty/with-no-nhl-gm-rhythm”, and “with less practice reps given the Nab situation”. It’s a near impossibility for him unless Monty plays a bit sub-par or worse and DP plays above average in his spot duty, which is very unlikely given the circumstances I’ve stated. That’s a scenario where DP never gets his shot.
Carrying on to my example: “Monty maintains a .918 save percentage till the beginning of February, during that time DP gets spot duty as a backup, playing once every 7gms(like a normal backup) and throwing up a .918.” Then say Montoya has a stretch of 4-5 bad games of .900 or below save percentage. Then halfway into November we switch it up to DP giving him 2 or 3 starts in a row and say he repeats that .918 or goes .915, do we then go back hoping that Montoya has shook off the bugs and give Monty another start or even 2-3 starts to see? Or do we give DP the load for a couple weeks(5-6gms)? I think “if” Capuano looks at Monty as the starter, back to Monty after 2-3DP starts for at least 2-3 starts to see where he’s at again. If he’s bad again, DP gets the load for another 2-6gms, rinse and repeat. IF, but a big if, IF Capuano looks at Monty as his starting goalie, there is no way DP wins the starting job back or starts more then ~30gms this year barring Monty injuries, Monty sub-par play overall(.910 or lower save percentage) with DP above average goaltending, Monty sub-par play repeatedly in a/multiple 3-5gms stretch(es)(.900 or below) with DP excelling in his shot(.915+), or DP playing out of his mind as a backup goalie (.925+).
If Cappy wants to keep his job and Monty was the best goalie in camp, Cap looks as Montoya as the starter and all above applies to the situation. If not, it’s kind of a different story. But until I see DP start back to back games, I’ll believe Monty is Cap’s starter and DP is the backup for as long as he’s healthy, and that means we will truly not know what we should know about DP after this season. Back to back to back games would be “huge” for DP to judge his health/play, I just don’t see it ever happening right now. Especially if Cap sees Monty as “his/the” starting goalie of this team.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I don't think I understand the issue here
If DP only shows backup proficiency this year, do you really think they’d go into next year with him as the projected starter? After already crossing the rubicon of making him the clear backup now?
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Well another problem
is that AM is only on a one year contract. IF he maintains last years performance and we want him, he is going to cost more. (What 3 mil? maybe a bit more) and then we are going to be forced to look at having two goalies making 7-8 million. If the team can’t afford that, it will force the hand early. Probably more of a real $ issue than a cap issue in the immediate future.
Play wise, I’m with you. If you have a proven starter, you ride him. But other than the $ issue, I have very little interest in finding out if DP can be an NHL starter if Monty is putting up numbers like this. Honestly, DP even if he plays very well is probably not tradeable until he strings together 60-100 starts to prove he is healthy enough to balance out the remainder of that contract.
Other GMs would be fools to take that gamble, and the Isles can’t afford to give that kind of showcase.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Honestly, DP even if he plays very well is probably not tradeable until he strings together 60-100 starts to prove he is healthy enough to balance out the remainder of that contract.
He will never be tradeable. Ever. I could MAYBE see if he proves he’s healthy some team claiming him off waivers for 1/2 price, but even that is far fetched.
Actually
let me amend that. There is one possible trade scenario-a cap clearing deal. Basically Hunter/Rolston on a higher level where we ship DP to a team that has lots of money, but no cap room and they AHL him. That’s about it.
Unless DP shows himself useful, there is no way another team trades a lifetime contract for him.
Even Redden for DP would make the Rangers look tremendously stupid, and Redden is what? A middle-pair d-man now. We’d get nothing but overpaid garbage for overpaid garbage if that happens, and that solves nobodies problem.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
The problem is, that if we make him the backup, he "could" very well stay the backup for the next 10yrs making $4.5mil/yr.
Does any GM or coach realistically think they are going to live with that under the salary cap for 9yrs?
If not, then they will “eventually” have to test him again as a starter somehow, if not, I don’t see DP getting a career ending injury as a backup goalie playing 20-25gms/yr with very few back to backs. Then we go into the debate of goalie overall costs as KQ states. Then we go into the debate if wang would ever ahl DP for the best of the team, when it comes to it, paying DP 4.5mil/yr to play out his contract in the ahl. Then we go into what do we do with him eventually and run all the scenarios, and I don’t see how we don’t cross the path of running him to the ground as a starter to see if he can be successful in the job given his contract, it must be an option. Sooner or later, I’d guess. I don’t see how you let RDP hang around as a $4.5mi/yr healthy backup, even say “good” backup for now, and not eventually test those waters.
Not “really” dealing with the situation now, when we were the 4th worst team in the NHL last year is imo going to hurt us in the longterm noticably one way or another.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
You’re right that no matter what the cap is, that is going to be way too much money for a backup goalie, but that isn’t a good reason to make him the starter. It’s better to move on from sunk costs than to keep investing in them.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But unless they are going to ahl him or buy him out(I don't suggest), the problem is ongoing.
If Wang has been as penny pinching as he has, there is no way DP is ahled within the next couple years, possibly never. And then we have to live with that till he retires or the contract is up. Giving DP an extra 15-20starts solves that problems. Sure, it may cost us some games and some points in the standings, but at least it tells us that DP either:
1-As healthy as he’s been in over half a decade, “still” can’t stay healthy enough to be an nhl starter
2-As healthy as he’s been in a decade, can’t play at a high level and maintain a starter job.
3-As healthy as he’s been in over half a decade, can actually play a starting goalie role for the team with average+ numbers.
It fixes the problem longterm if we ride him out this year. It’s just a question of long term problems/long-term depth vs short term success. I’d trade away an 8th seed playoff birth season now for an extra $4mil of payrole to sign a Regehr/Enstrom or a Pavelski/Clowe over a 4th liner/depth-d-man for the next 9yrs(interchangable players).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I still don't see
how giving him extra starts solves the problem. He is untradeable-forever. He could throw 10 straight shutouts and no one would trade a 6th rounder for him. We are going to have to live with the contract one way or another.
If he plays well as a backup, he’ll likely get more starts as the season goes on. But after last year it’s also worth seeing what we have in Montoya. He might be a legitimate NHL goalie capable of playing more than 50 games. It should be his job to lose.
All things equal, which they aren't, Montoya would be our starter for this year no questions ask.
Given what we have with DP, it should be weighted a bit.
And look at my 3 options for what happens when DP gets more starts:
“1-As healthy as he’s been in over half a decade, "still" can’t stay healthy enough to be an nhl starter
2-As healthy as he’s been in a decade, can’t play at a high level and maintain a starter job.
3-As healthy as he’s been in over half a decade, can actually play a starting goalie role for the team with average+ numbers.”
Option 3 solves our problems positively.
Option 1 solves our problems with a "heavy GM/Owner retirement talk possibly leading to a hearing about forcing his retirement(and they have a strong case given the injuries/surgeries) or at minimum, making DP sit-out all of next season.
Option 2 solves our problems again by the “heavy GM/Owner retirement talk” possibly leading to a hearing about forcing his retirement(and they have a strong case given the injuries/surgeries).
Either way, running DP a whole season “should” give them enough of a case to either give DP the starting job for the future or force his hand into retirement one way or another. Letting DP play backup for a year does neither of those things and only creates a number of future problems as I’ve stated.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
But
He could be #3 AND still not deserve to start over Montoya, so it wouldn’t necessarily solve anything.
I think he either will show he’s a competent NHL goalie or not this year from the backup position and we’ll still have an answer to your question by year’s end.
But I don't think it will be enough to force his hand into retirement. That's the problem.
Last year, DP could say it was rust. This year in a backup role, he could say it was because of spot duty. See the problem? We run him now and we have the proof we need for better or worse to know what to do with him, and to force his retirement too if need be.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I don't think
forcing his retirement is a realistic option. I’d be fine with it, but I imagine the guy will be willing to put up with a whole lot of crap for 4.5 million a year. I know it would take more than riding the pine for a minor league team to force me out.
I think they would have a justifiable case with the insurance company or nhl to force his retirement if they have the body of proof after this year.
I am not sure they’d be able to convince DP, but I think they could convince the NHL or an insurance company given the data to support them including an ample amount of starts this year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Can it work like that? I don’t know enough about this. I always figured the insurance thing was if HE decided to retire.
No
as long as there is no damage, there is no case. Most guys who are terrible retire because nobody signs them. Not because they are hurt.
There are a billion retireees out there that aren’t getting insurance money because they can’t get it done anymore. If he decides to retire without a medical issue, he gets nothing.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I think knee swelling would work right?
How about all the injuries he’s had causing him unable to play at an nhl-level? That sounds like it would work imo, but I have no idea about the fine print in the contract/insurance wise.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I would assume
it would be like what you need to draw disability from a job. For example, you don’t get disability because you can’t perform your old job as often, or as well, you get it because you can’ perform it.
If a mailman can’t deliver mail every day because of a bad ACL, I would think he would get a clerk job. Or work part time.
I can’t say for certain obviously, because I haven’t seen the language used in that document, but I can’t imagine it would say something like
“Should Mr. DiPietro sometimes have residual knee swelling from surgery that causes no permanent damage, but is mildly uncomfortable and causes his sv% to drop below .890, he shall receive the balance of his contract and be considered “retired due to injury”.
I just can’t see an insurance company coughing up 40 million dollars because he’s not that good and has some swelling.
Have you ever seen how insurance companies get? There are people out there that have terminal diseases that have to argue to get pain meds.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
You cant say that with any kind of certainty.
HOF players used to make 500K, now the worst players in the NHL make more than that. The cap ceiling is likely to go up. You simply cannot say that 4M is ‘too much’ for any position many years from now… in fact, it is reasonable to say that 4M will not be worth what it is now in the future.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that all matters on the CBA.
There are teams near the floor and teams near the roof, and a number of teams are “reportedly” losing and complaining about money. There was the Atlanta fiasco, there is the phoenix fiasco, there is the florida panthers fiasco, and more. I doubt the league wants to keep buying or making teams that are barely financially alive continue to barely purge along. The cap has to be set sooner then later, or at least controlled so it doesn’t inflate so gratuitously, especially during these rougher economic times nationwide.
Either way, $4mil right now gets you a damn good top 6er or a damn good top 4 d-man. Say the cap inflates similarly like it has, $4mil “should” still get you a decent/ok top 4 d-man or a decent/ok top 6er. It’s still a noticable loss if we ride DP as the backup for the next 9yrs. $4mil is $4mil less spent towards the team, it’s a lose lose no matter any way you look at it.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
It’s still a noticable loss if we ride DP as the backup for the next 9yrs. $4mil is $4mil less spent towards the team, it’s a lose lose no matter any way you look at it.
???? I do not agree. This would only make sense if the Islanders were getting NOTHING for that money. Anyone who can play a posiiton is not NOTHING.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And seriously with the 9 years stuff...
The contract was INTENDED to last until the guy retires, even BEFORE he had injury problems. There is no reason to assume that he will definitely be playing at age 40.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
But is it hard to fathom that DP playing 15-25gms as a backup and making $4.5mil/yr doing so would make it worth his while to play out till he's 40?
That kind of workload isn’t too debilitating on his body, especially if he plays the hybrid style. $4.5mi/yr is a lot of money to lose for even 1yr. I do believe DP can and will play out his contract if we throw him in a backup role the rest of the contract.
And no, DP playing backup isn’t money for nothing, but what does your average NHL backup goalie make in FA? $600k-$1.5mil/yr on the high high end. So average ~$1mil/yr. That’s $3.5mil/yr of cap money “wasted” on a backup goalie that could have been spent in a number of places to better the team. In terms of an nhl team this year, $3.5mil is the difference between a Pavelski/Clowe and a 4th liner or ELC late round pick or defensively, it’s the difference between Regehr/Entrom and Reese. It’s still money badly spent towards the cap.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
It doesnt matter.
So what if he is/would be supposedly possibly paid 2M more than other backups in the future? In the grand scheme of things, why does anyone give any sort of a shit? the Islanders are not going to be pushing the cap ceiling in the forseeable future, its not my or your money, the one whose money it IS is the one who insisted on giving him the contract in the 1st place, so really- who cares? Why is this such a big frickin deal that we always have to talk abou8t it always always? Always? I dont understand it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It's about money
that can’t be spent on other players. There is clearly a budget in place. and he is taking up a big chunk of it.
Exactly, it's money that we lose towards other things.
No matter the budget, it hurts the team.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This battlecry is the equivalent of yelling at brine shrimp.
Youre not going to get anywhere.
Hurts the team… jeez. You can make the case that lots of players are overpaid and “hurt” their teams.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that make it right to keep a guy on the NHL roster that can contribute what a $500k-$1mil/yr backup can all because of finances?
It is a waste of money towards the team. Wang knows, I know it, you know it. And when we spend so little on the team already, it’s an even bigger hinderance.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
It doesnt matter.
So what if he is/would be supposedly possibly paid 2M more than other backups in the future? In the grand scheme of things, why does anyone give any sort of a shit? the Islanders are not going to be pushing the cap ceiling in the forseeable future, its not my or your money, the one whose money it IS is the one who insisted on giving him the contract in the 1st place, so really- who cares? Why is this such a big frickin deal that we always have to talk about it always always? Always? I dont understand it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
you could say the Isles got a negative return on his 4 million last year. It was worse than nothing.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That doesnt work- without it, the Islanders would not have been CBA compliant.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure
compliance is getting something from a player. Especially since complying (or the effects of not) seems to be an ill defined situation.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cappy will play the best guy so they win in order to keep his job....
Perfect!!!Its about time this team was about winning…Ozzy, you want to give away games and a possible playoff berth in order to play Rickety…
Not exactly. I want Ricky to be showcased for better or worse.
It will never click in RDP’s mind that he can’t play at a high level if he is moderately or more successful in a backup role. His body will never be tested in 20-30 starts with very few back to backs. His contract will become a hinderance in a number of ways. We may not be able to afford a good goalie ever or we will hurt our forward/defense depth by doing so given RDP’s salary. There’s a laundry list of reasons why we should run RDP to the ground to see if he can take it and if he can play at an average+ level doing so. If he can, great, problem solved and let him play out his contract as our starter and if he breaks again, he’ll likely have to retire or be forced to sit-out a whole season on LTIR.
Imo, Cappy is going for short term success while gambling long term salary and cap problems for this team, and possibly gambling long term success too given how the RDP situation pans out.
Obviously the playoffs was a goal this year. But would you rather us make the playoffs this year and have $4mil less spent on D/Forwards for the next 8yrs because of our cap situation “when” we actually could use the money to make us a heavy cup contender. Or would you rather have the DP situation solved as completely as it ever will given DP’s health this year, while costing us the playoffs, but solving our goalie situation with DP for the next decade?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
That is a tough question
I think it gets even tougher with scenarios C and D:
C: Dipietro plays moderately well as the starter, Isles miss playoffs, Dipietro may or may not be injured by the end of the season, but returns next year more or less in the same boat.
D: Dipietro plays very good hockey as the #1. Isles probably make the playoffs. Dipietro looks good for next season, but still we don’t know what to expect from Rick, and there is a good chance up-and-down play lingers for 5+ seasons.
I admit that your A and B scenarios are more likely than D, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see this linger the next few seasons regardless of how much Isles play Rick this season.
Because of the coliseum unknowns, I’d much rather see Cap go with the better goalie and try hard to make the playoffs than force Rick to play a lot of games. Isles need momentum to help stay around Long Island, and I think even a 4-game playoff exit would be much better in that effort than a 9th place (or worse) finish.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 11, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there is the arena issue too. But I don't know if that will change fans opinions heavily with 1 playoff series or not.
We have a couple years to figure out the arena issue too, so it could be solved with a playoff series “win” next year or possibly playoff series loss, which would just push off results 1-year. All I know is, DP right now is gonna be a highly overpaid backup that eats cap room/salary that we could use in other spots. I’m sure he’d gladly ride that out if he could, but it would be far from the best for the team.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I agree...You play the best players and the guys that give you the best chance to win...
Hey, Oz, are you a typical METS/JETS/ISLES fan???Just wondering
by KO21 on Oct 11, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. Are we going with a Sanchez question here or is this a single question?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I want this team to play to win...I like the precedent that Cappy is sending...We are here to compete and win...
Like I’ve said before…If I was a player on this team and I worked my ass off to win but the coach decided to play guys just because of their contracts then I would be disillusioned and I would want out…I would request a trade to a team that cares about winning and not one player…I understand your long term thinking but the message you would be sending to the rest of the team and the fans for that matter is that the Islanders are not playing to win…Thats the stigma surrounding this team and I’m ready for a change in precedent…I believe Wang should swallow the contract if he must…Send him to the AHL if he must…But he shouldn’t play if he isnt deserving…He should get starts because he’s earned it and because he outplayed the friendly competition within the team…Im discouraged by the fact that some Isles fans still accept the losing mentality to be honest, Oz…We will have to agree to dissagree here…
It's fine. I actually see both sides to the argument.
I just think, if we aren’t gonna make DP earn that $4.5mil/yr by starting more then 30gms/yr in the nhl, I think we should just ahl him. But then we have the 3/4 goalie issue there so that doesn’t work. There are no easy answers, but honeslty the worst case for us contract wise is him staying healthy and being a bad backup goalie.
I’m not against winning, I’ll take whatever Cap decides. I just think that if we are playing Monty as the starter, it’s going to lead to future DP problems with the cap and otherwise. Internal budget, salary floor, salary cap, etc.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I don't agree with experimenting with DP and losing valuable points due to his contract....The players wouldn't like it either..
Its time to make the playoffs…Wang fucked up by giving DP that deal but I don’t think its good to put him in there because of the money he makes…What does that tell the players???If I were one of those guys busting my ass to win and they put an experiment in net I’d be disillusioned…I understand what you’re saying but Wangs screw up needs to be fixed by Wang and the players shouldn’t be held hostage by it…
If Wang wanted to get rid of DP how would he be able to do it???
Buy out, trade?Can he be sent to the AHL?
He can be sent to the AHL
and his cap hit would disappear, but the Isles would still have to pay him 4.5 mil. He can be traded, but nobody will take him (probably), he can be brought out, but he would remain a 1.5 million cap hit until 2031 (which we shouldn’t do until the next CBA is completed…they may adjust that buyout clause). Or he can retire, but insurance will only cover him if he is too unhealthy to play…not if he is healthy and just not good. So for him, it may not make sense to retire.
Those are the options, and none of them are great due to the Isles finances. I suspect if we were the Rangers, he’s be Redden’s teammate by next year if he plays poorly.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 11, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
KQ says it all.
And unless Wang/Snow want to eat $4.5mil/yr for a player that adds nothing to their nhl team for the next 10yrs, expect DP to be on the NHL roster till he plays out his career, is forced to retire, or else.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I do not buy this.
They do not have rick up because of money, they have him up because he is a player the team wants to do well. Charles has already shown that he will pay to NOT have a player on the team- even a player who he is personally very good friends with.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Because of the current situation with the cap floor, I think it’s extremely likely he has a roster spot right now because of his contract.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or
because Poulin could be an anomaly at BPT. I think DP is a little more of the proven commodity, but proven at low levels right now.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
But that buyout cap hit hurts the team we ice. Buying out is the last case scenario and the worst case scenario.
If wang really wanted the best for the team, he would have ahled Yashin for his career. But financially it didn’t make sense to him. And right now, RDP is being used for his cap hit. And is making us overspend on him while spending less on other possible team assets.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Oh come on Ozzy.
They could not put a guy making 10M in a season in the AHL. Youre not being rational with this.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
A number of teams have done it with players making $4-$5mil+/yr.
If it’s for the best of the team it’s for the best of the team. If the owner puts his finances ahead of the best of the team, then it’s his own fault, as the Yashin buy-out was and helps him financially cap wise, even though it hurts the team overall, as does the DP situation if not figured out.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This is an unbelievably ridiculous line of conversation
You dont DO IT, Ozzy.
Whent he Rags disd this to Redden, the entire NHL world tal;ked about what pieces of shit they were for doing it. You expect Charles Wang to have destroyed Yashins entire life? A person he is friends with? Just to save capspace that nobody is using?
I am sorry- but this is unethical and it is a really, REALLY pointless hindsight argument.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And I will add this:
If you and afro ran this team the way you are stating here, I swear to god I would no longer be a fan. So I am glad that all you two are doing is blabbing on the net.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol, I explained I how would have dealt with the Yashin situation in another post. And the DP situation too.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Im with you...
I think OZZY just really wants DP to be the man…I would love it if DP took the starting job by the proverbial throat and took it but he probably wont…Injuries messed him up
Id love if that were to happen.
That doesnt mean I think it likely (I dont) but the guy had a good camp, he will get time soon enough.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I just want the DP situation solved soon so it doesn't create any future problems.
But I’ll live with whatever happens.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Theres still gonna be a wait for that
“solved” is a lot to ask for when it comes to something like this. The only way to solve it is to give him lots of time once healthy… and in giving lots of time, we are not getting an answer any time soon. We’re just not.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I can live with whatever happens.
I just hope that Garth and Wang aren’t gonna be on the issue like they’ve been for a while. It’s obvious the injuries are gonna hurt him, this is likely the healthiest he’s ever gonna be. So if he has a horrible year, it’s time to makes some big decisions. If he does good, then great, but there are still some big contract/goalie/spending decisions to be made.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"I forgot"
if DP has injury troubles this year too, knee swelling specifically or another big injury, it’s time to talk about retirement or ahl with him. I’m all for giving him a clean slate this season, but it’s obvious this is the healthiest he’s been in forever and if he gets injured/knee-swelling again this year, it should be time to make a tough decision.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
I dont see it.
There will be no resolution to this in the next few months in ANY case. If Ricks healthy, people will wonder if it will last. If he isnt, people will wonder what will happen once he IS healthy. There is no final decision looming right before us- I know people dont want to hear that, but for the last 4 years people have said exactly what youre saying here and it doesnt happen. The only thing that is gonna bring an answer is time. But time in years, not months.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 12, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There is that, but he's as healthy as he's been in forever.
If he can’t perform now, he never will. If he can perform, great. If he gets injured again, then it’s time to have the retirement/ahl talk. I love the guy for what he has done for this team and what he’s gone through, but if we aren’t thought to be heavily contending for a #6/#7 playoff spot for next year, then we have taken missteps. And if we aren’t gonna make the “decisions”(DP, Bailey, PAP possibly, Streit’s longterm or shortterm here, “key” FA and trade addittions,) that need to be made then, when will we ever?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
So
it’s a bad move to put a player in the AHL when he can no longer play at the NHL level? And this makes sense how? And this ruins his life how?
The player enters into the contract with as much good faith as the team. If he can’t perform, then he has as much responsibility as the team in the matter.
And don’t forget, all you are doing is blabbing on the internet as well. Thankfully your opinions aren’t any more valid than ours. The reality is dumb shit contracts and blind loyalty have hurt this team. Continuing to do so would be to continue to make the same mistakes. And if you don’t think that has cost the team fans then I don’t know what to tell you.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do not put a player making 10M in a season and playing as expected 100% healthy on a fucking AHL team just because you feel like it. You DONT. The Rangers did this kind of thing with Redden and his contract was a lot shorter and not as much money. And they at least had a reason- Reddens relatively poor play. Yashing was on a PPG pace his last seaosn with us before the buy out. If the Islanders had done something THAT messed up, the NHLPA would NOT have stood for it. This kind of think is one of the points of contention for the next CBA. And you know it.
You buy out a player in that kind of situation-which is what the Isles did. Its what every team does. There is no “blind loyalty” in buying a player out, no matter how much you want to try and convince yourself of that.
You think FA dont want to come here now? Imagine if we had an owner would would litderally fuck his good friend either out of like 50 million dollars OR the chance to ever play in a top league again. Yeah, players would really respect that.
The difference between you and me is that I am not going on about what the SHOULD have done, you are. and your ideas are absolutely crazy asz far as I am concerned. I said that if this team was being run the way you suggest here, I would be disgusted and would unfortunately no longer even be a fan. Where am I stating that the Isles should do things that YOU find just as unethical or disgusting? Please point it out.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I am disgusted when the team makes poor decisions that haunt them for years, and then compounds them by sticking with those decisions. I haven’t reached that point with the Isles, but I was soured on them for a while after the Yashin/DP deals.
Yashin was so good his last season he had how many offers after he was bought out? Oh, that’s right, none.
If you want to make a case that it doesn’t make sense for the Isles to do it because they aren’t up against the ceiling and as such it doesn’t make a difference then fine. But don’t give me a bunch of moralistic BS about you just don’t do it. This is pro sports, that stuff left the building about 80 years ago.
In fact, you can argue that in certain cases, such as Rolston, sending a guy to the AHL would be particularly beneficial to a team like the Islanders in that they keep his cap hit and free up a roster spot for an additional contract to give them some flexibility with regards to the cap floor. That would be a savvy move in my book, and a credit to how far Snow has brought them along.
Yashin was so good his last season he had how many offers after he was bought out? Oh, that’s right, none.
Where’d you get that from? Oh thats right, people can just say things and who cares whether its true or not.
You have no clue what kinds of offers Yash got- and neither do I. But you dont see me making any presumptions. You, on the other hand…
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
he didn’t sign with any NHL teams, so….
Supposedly he had some low offers, so if you want to take his agent’s word for it, go ahead. I mean it’s not like he’s the kind of guy to annual circulate a rumor.
Point is not one NHL team wanted him enough to make him a decent offer.
I dont entirely trust his agent
(for obvious reasons) so I cant say WTF happened for sure.
Thats my point though- we really dont know.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact, you can argue that in certain cases, such as Rolston, sending a guy to the AHL would be particularly beneficial to a team like the Islanders in that they keep his cap hit and free up a roster spot for an additional contract to give them some flexibility with regards to the cap floor. That would be a savvy move in my book, and a credit to how far Snow has brought them along.
I would agree with you. But in doing THAT you would not be shoving a guy in the AHL and trapping him there til retirement age, with the only exist being him giving up tens of millions of dollars- for absolutely no benefit whatsoever other than getting to spend MORE money and be a jerk. This proposal quoted here is not the same thing at all.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It's in essence
the converse of Redden, which you seem to think was the most despicable thing done in NHL history.
Huh?
I already said that the Rangers had a REASON to do what they did- cap space. The Islanders would not have had that reason, and so doing so would have been absolutely pointless- other than to spend MORE money and to be a dick to the guy.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And the reason being his poor play.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thread is getting convoluted here. Too much going on! I’m saying Rolston would be the converse of Redden about which you said:
Whent he Rags disd this to Redden, the entire NHL world tal;ked about what pieces of shit they were for doing it.
Thing is
You jumped from me talking about how the hockey world reacted to making wild presumptions about how I personally felt, telling me that I think Redden going to the AHL “was the most despicable thing done in NHL history.” Absolutely not true.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
You wrote that sentence above regarding Redden as if you agreed with it, following it up with the idea that AHLing Yashin would have ruined his life. So I don’t think it’s presumptive to think you found what the Rangers did to be despicable.
The Yashin/Isles and Redden/Rags situations have nothing in common and are not even comparable. At all. Completely, totally different situations in every way other than they both had contracts with teams in NY. Thats it.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, never said that
I think you are confusing what Ozzy said and what I said. I compared the Rolston and Redden scenarios.
To sum up:
I have no problem with what the Rangers did to Redden.
I think the Isles could do something similar with Rolston (albeit to reach the floor, rather than stay under the ceiling).
I don’t think it would have made sense financially to AHL Yashin, and in fact I never said the Isles should have done it. I simply asked why it’s not OK to demote a player making 10 million dollars. I’m not opposed to it morally. That argument doesn’t really have a place in pro sports. If it had been best for the team to put Yashin in the AHL for 10 years at 10 million per, then that is what they should do. It wasn’t so it’s moot, but acting as though something like that should never be done is silly.
Moreover, owners shouldn’t be friends with players. That’s how you end up with dumbshit contracts (like DP’s) in the first place. That is not a good reason to not do what is best for the team.
DP’s contract hurts the Isles because it is 4.5 million yearly that could be directed toward more useful players. It will continue to be that way for many years.
I would only AHL DP if he could not play in the NHL because you can’t waste a roster spot on him. If it was the case he is not effective anymore and doing so encouraged him to retire, that would be a plus.
I think that covers everything.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said I wanted to ahl yashin either, I don't know where that started.
I said " If the owner puts his finances ahead of the best of the team, then it’s his own fault, as the Yashin buy-out was and helps him financially cap wise, even though it hurts the team overall, as does the DP situation if not figured out."
And later explained I would have made Yashin play out his contract and wouldn’t have bought him out.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
This though
Imagine if we had an owner would would litderally fuck his good friend either out of like 50 million dollars OR the chance to ever play in a top league again.
He shouldn’t be good friends with players…he just shouldn’t. That is what complicates business decisions.
I personally don’t think Yashin should have been AHLed either, but the DP to Yashin argument in general doesn’t hold up here.
Yashin was still performing well. DP, not so much. I’m not saying that he can’t or won’t (although I believe that to be true), but as of now, he hasn’t.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
I think comparing Yashins situation to DPs is ridiculous, myself.
I have said many times that Rick can be sent to the AHL. but not to save cap space that the Islanders are not using, that is stupid. If he cant play at this level, that is totally different.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
This is something Wanger should know being a business man first...
He shouldn’t be good friends with players…he just shouldn’t
What's wrong with Reddening?
Whent he Rags disd this to Redden, the entire NHL world tal;ked about what pieces of shit they were for doing it.
Not me! I thought it was the right thing to do. They were dumb for signing that contract to begin with.
The CBA works both ways — you want your money, you gotta earn it or you might be demoted … and still get your money.
But Ozzy: There is zero cap benefit to demoting DP (unless the Islanders suddenly become a cap ceiling team); there was zero benefit to AHL-ing Yashin instead of buying him out, because the Isles are not a cap ceiling team. You demote a guy instead of buying him out, you end up paying more money overall. But you save the cap space if you need it (the Isles do not).
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 11, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats what I was saying about the Rangers having a reason to do what they did. (And people still got on their cases for it.) Now imagine if they DIDNT have a reason but did it anyway? The Islanders would have had no reason to do this to Yashin instead of buying him out, other than just doing it purely for the sake of being horrible.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Serves me right for stepping in mid back-and-forth
I seriously missed the part at where this veered to Yashin.
So…DP, Yashin … add Wang and we have the trinity of Islanders lightning rods.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
heh
Well what do you think about that? Should the Islanders have saved cap space they would not have been using by shoving Yashin down in the AHL throughout all these years? Or do you think that would have been pointless? Would you do that to someone you consider a good friend just for the sake of doing it? What if you werent friends at all?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone is arguing cap space right now
in the future though, that may be an issue. It looks like for the immediate, people are assuming that the “internal budget” is in effect, and that is hampering the team spending that 4.5 million. (Or may in the next couple of years).
It could be argued that due to the buyout of Yashin (and Witt now), the team didn’t spend that money on an actual player, but that assumes knowing the budget of course…which we don’t other than as a confirmation bias (see, they didn’t sign anyone…probably broke). Nobody has ever come out and said “we can’t spend much beyond the floor”, but I also wouldn’t expect a team to do that if they wanted to remain competitive in the FA market.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Future yes...not very immediate, but within 5 years, could be an issue
now no, recent history, no.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Then I have the "internal budget" argument for that, but I can't prove it.
All I can do is look at how we’ve hit the cap the last few years and give an educated guess on that.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Buyouts make more sense, period
Unless you need or can afford the AHL burial (or unless you think it will lead the player to retire before his contract is up).
The whole friendship thing doesn’t enter into it for me because neither is illegal or unexpected. I’m not following along — too much back-and-forth here for my patience — but only reason to AHL Yashin was if they needed cap space, which they did not.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 11, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Buyouts make sense if the owner doesn't want to spend money on the team.
It’s a way of cap floor circumvention in the case of the islanders spending. As are the 35+ bonuses(Pandolfo/Staios, Weight was, etc). It stops the isles from icing the best possible team they can. It’s wasted/useless cap space in the simplest terms.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
The thing Dom/TMC, is that there is that benefit.
By ahling DP before the season starts, or even possibly during the season, we are forced to use that $4mil~/$4.5mil of cap space on another player(s) as the CBA states we need to stay above the cap floor. It makes us better our team. And let’s not complain about giving DP ahl starts, tell the coach to sit him or give him 10-15starts per year in regards of the youngsters(goalies) best interest. If you are going to make him an NHL backup, you are just hurting us cap/team spending wise, and you really aren’t helping DP at all either. Nor is it helping us know what DP can do in a starter role, what he is being paid as. It just doesn’t make much sense to me.
You could even argue wang has been cap circumventing the floor with that yashin buy-out, while buy-outs were meant to do the total opposite(hurt a cap ceiling team, not help a cap floor team). It hurts the on-ice product by not making wang spend those extra bucks for the better.
The Yashin thing was beside the point, and I’ve explained that in an entirely different post.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"and the eventual cap ceiling space we will need to clear to within the next 9yrs if we won't our team to be the best it can be."
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
yeah, I didnt have a problem with the Rags Reddening
he wasn’t earning his keep and he was a detriment to the team by taking up valuable space…He had to be sent to the minors since he wasn’t competing at a high level…The NHL is for the best pros in the world…
lol, I bring up yashin to show how buy-outs create cap hit to a team for nothing and we get into a Yashin debate. lol
I’ll explain my case on the Yashin “incident” and tell you what I would have done and what happened(that I know of) and all. I’ll save the DP stuff for a separate post.
Would I have buyed out Yashin? Simply, no. I would have made him playout his contract in the NHL. Even declining he should have given us 20-25goal/60-65pts seasons repeatedly. He was still a usable top 6 center and imo there was no real “hockey” reason to get rid of him, even with all the BS that was going around.
Buying-out Yashin single handedly started the rebuild and created 4yrs+ of youth hockey with crap results in the standings(some injuries along the way, but still). If we just kept going with what we had, even with losing some of those key players to FA, we could have been competitive still and eventually won a cup quicker with good Snow drafting and cap moves imo.
Smyth might have resigned if he had a center like Yashin playing alongside him. We still “had” Nielsen/Okposo/Comeau/Bergenheim/MacDonald/Rakhshani in the system. We still "had a decent group of players Satan/Sillinger/Hunter/Park/Martinek/Witt, + Yashin and hopefully Smyth as I said and that team can compete. We signed Guerin/Sutton in that offseason and got Streit/Weight “cheaply” in the next offseason. The team wasn’t moving along bad at all. The coaching could have been wrong, but Gordon wasn’t the answer either. It was just a completely mismanaged situation, having a domino effect that created us looking like a joke organization for the next 4yrs(and counting for now). You don’t just force a rebuild the way the isles did and don’t expect backlash for the team and the organization.
Buying out Yashin hurt us a lot more then helped our image as a team too. That’s gotta hurt our UFA attractiveness too given how we dealt with Yashin and everyone else that offseason, not just a losing team or the coliseum or others.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Reason for cutting Yashin
He was still a usable top 6 center and imo there was no real "hockey" reason to get rid of him, even with all the BS that was going around.
Is exactly what you said. He was pretty good, but too expensive. Having a guy like that on your roster is a problem if you are trying to build through the draft. We would be absolutely nowhere if between 07-present, we were finishing between 14th-22nd. The bustometer gets a little glitchy around that area.
The problem was, the prospects were gone (nothing to trade with), the vets were washed up or close to it (Satan, Sillinger, Witt) and the only guy that had any trade value (Yashin) nobody would take that contract.
You witnessed Smyth shoot us down, and presumably, other vets were doing the same. It was a perfect storm coming together…bad to mediocre team, no prospects of being better, lousy arena, declining American dollar.
Most teams rebuild this way to some degree. You rid yourself of everyone of value for picks or prospects to speed it along…the problem was Yashin wasn’t movable.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 11, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not even convinced Yashin really had any value. I guess it’s believable he wanted to play in the KHL, but it’s more believable that no one in the NHL wanted him.
Yeah, after the buyout I'll buy that
but before the buyout, who knows what you could have gotten for him dealing him at the deadline to a contender (if he didn’t have the monster contract). If he was reasonably prices (5.5/6) I’ll bet he could’ve landed a first rounder.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
yup
If he didnt have that contract, everything could have been different… everything. That giant contract is why they made him Captain (such a mistake) and led to a domino effect of problems.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we would have been ok one way or the other.
Obviously we would have had less losing this way, and if garth drafted smart I don’t see why we still wouldn’t have had a number of our future later round picks that have looked good maturing so far(Martin/Lee/Poulin/Donovan/Cizikas/Ullstrom). It wouldn’t have been bad. Obviously we wouldn’t be looking good in this situation either, I just don’t believe a full-blown rebuild was necessary. Sure it got us Tavares and Bailey and Strome and Nino, but with smart drafting and better management/coaching, I don’t think it would have been a big problem.
Just take a look at some replacement 1st rounders in that category of higher overall spots:
Bailey→Eberle/Boychuk/Karlsson/Gardiner
Tavares→Kassian/DeHaan/Kulikov/Runblad
It’s still too early, but other then the Tavares draft so far, we can’t say we have been much better off with earlier picks then 10spot later picks.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
But probably no depth...half of those guys may not exist
A lot of pieces were dealt away to acquire those later round picks. Probably also wouldn’t have Hamonic from being able to trade down with Bailey or deHaan and Nelson. I would way rather (if I had to make a choice) have JT/Strome/Nino/Hamonic/deHaan/Nelson than Yashin/Martin/Ullstrom/Cizikas/Donovan/Lee/Poulin.
But that is an Islanders “What if” post.
Who does those, Mark?
So weird not typing Webbard.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, things have come together beautifully with the full rebuild on having things fall into place.
JT/Moulson/Grabs/Nino/Strome likely wouldn’t be here without that. Hamonic likely neither. I like how the team has filled out, I just think that “if” garth is as smart a drafter and player manager as we say he is, I think we could have done well and avoided a full blown 4 seasons of basement hockey rebuild and still have been a cup contender in a similar amount of time, just with different personnel.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
More Yashin,
and if we did ahl him(which I wouldn’t have done), it wouldn’t have ruined his life. He would have made the same money, just playing against easier competition.
The capspace problem thing I have with Yashin is because of the buyout, we lost $4.7mil/yr in cap space that we could have used to better the team for Xyrs passing, and now $2.2mil/yr for another Xyrs. We are a cap floor team, we could use every penny we could to make us as competitive as possible, why waste it on something where we get no return? We could have really used that money towards something more productive. It is what it is though.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
But we haven't been close to the cap in years
We’ve been close to the floor. You are confusing the issue between cap hit and actual salary. I can see that maybe we could have used the actual $ to get a guy, but we were never in any position to care about exceeding the cap ceiling.
We could literally have signed Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos and Datsyuk last year and still been cap compliant.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 11, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is true...
That is what we should expect..
Maybe it's a conspiracy
He’s setting DP UP TO FAIL. Who ordered the Code Red?!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 10, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
YOUR'E GODDAMN RIGHT I DID!!!!!111
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
The answer is obvious
Cody Rosen.
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Oct 10, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
By day he’s a mild mannered backup goalie for the Clarkson Golden Knights, but at night the criminals of Potsdam, NY beware of … CODE RED.
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wonder if after the boos he heard on opening day
Capuano is waiting to give Rick a start when they’re out on the road – give him a chance to silence the nay-sayers without having to actually contend with them
Hoping that Haley comes around more than once every 75 years.
Entirely possible
But I’m going with the simple explanation personally. Cappy meant what he said and DP will get his starts when there are back to backs, when AM needs a breather, or when AM has a bad stretch.
This is also my goaltending Zen…having a goalie situation like every other team has.
Mmmmm
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 5:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Ohhhmmmmmmm
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Maybe he just thought normal goalie situations are yummy
mocking opposing announcers and their horrible commentary since '89
by Chris McNally on Oct 10, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe just getting hungry, and thinking “What’s for Dinner”?
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
You're both right!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 5:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Especially given how lethal the Bolts and Rangers offenses should be?
What makes you think the Rangers are going to have a lethal offense this season? Even if you count B.Richards numbers they still didn’t have a 30 goal scorer. Your believing the Sather hype?
Yeah seriously??
Rags got a weak offense. TB I’ll give you that. I also think Monty made some great saves and reads today. He was sharp and won us that game. That said, I still want to see DP playing soon. I want to know what we have in him. I couldn’t care less about Nabakov
by Empire39 on Oct 10, 2011 5:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
The Bolts offense is great, don't act like it isn't. And the Rags have a lot more potent of an offense then you think.
Rags were 16th in the NHL for offense last year “with” Gaborik and Callahn, 2 of their top goalscorers, missing 1/4th of the season, and no 30goals/80pts Richards. And they were still a playoff team last year given those things. So don’t sell them short just because of the rivalry hate. They could win the division this year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Richards has a career high of 28 goals
And i believe his next best season was 22, so hes more like a 20 goal 70 pts player, still pretty good though. But for the first 2 games this season their offense looks a little off
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
Could be just two games, or could be them in the process of figuring out Richards isn't a 1C
Richards needs to be a big help to them on the powerplay and also collected points with some not-hardest matchups.
(I haven’t watched them one bit yet, but I’m just guessing that Tortorella will discover that 2011 Richards is not 2004 Richards.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 10, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I wouldn't worry.
On paper if they can stay healthy, I don’t know how they wouldn’t be a top 10 offense. But health is the question.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Their offense has looked down right pathetic for two games so far. Biggest thing is they haven’t found a forecheck game yet, for whatever reason. For now we’re blaming the lengthy Euro trip, but I can see them being completely flat again on Saturday.
Richards is certainly a #1C. He’s just not an elite one b/c he doesn’t work well power v power, which is the expectation among the uneducated Rangers fans (insert joke here)
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by George E. Ays on Oct 10, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Rangers' O will depend upon health imo.
Gaby in particular. If Healthy, should be better than previous years.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
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Stay flat, stay flat!
That’s kind of what I meant. I’d run Dubinsky out there against the harder lines and let Gaborik and Richards run free, assuming they work out together.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You mean Callahan against harder lines?
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He should mean both of them. Part of the problem is Dubinsky has been with Richards instead of Anisimov so far, which pulled Fedotenko away from Boyle’s line, which has thrown things out of whack.
As much as he’s inconsistent, they really need Wolski to play with Richards to stabilize the other lines.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 10, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems a bit risky
A line of Wolski-Richards-Gaborik seems like it would get eaten alive if they had to do any back checking.
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
It also goes to the power v power thing. It’d be much more effective a line at home for sure, where you can get it out there against weaker comp.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 11, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats what i was expecting/hoping torts would do
for your guys sake
"Mario Lemiuex… I used to respect you."- Turgeon1992
I'm really starting to like you...
But come saturday I’m not sure if that will be true.
Actually… I’m looking forward to Saturday… especially if the Isles find themselves on Thursday.
By, “find themselves”, I mean click. There are still a lot of rusted bolts, pins and scars on the team. Cappy is right in not unleashing too much of the beast early, but there will come a time when they have to kick the KISS principle up a notch… and that might be on Thursday.
SPARK = DiBo… I think they can bring him up without waivers… but it would mean that Gillies, Strome or Nino has got to go… and one of the old men (most likely Rolston) gets to sit. Too early?
[prediction] Gillies is going to play against the Rangers. Strome and Nino do not need to open their season with that kind of pressure. Martin moves up to the Comeau-Bailey line and the the “fourth” line becomes DiBo-Reasoner-Pandolfo. (just a thought)
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Too early to do anything.
Give it a few more games. We’re 1-1 after all.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
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I’ll be honest, I’ll kill to have Gillies in the lineup. It will help negate Rupp skating around a step slower than the guys he’s playing with.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 11, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Still out with injury.
You’re out of luck. He’ll be active for NYI-PHI or NYI-PIT 1.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
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All we know...
I think… is that Gillies was progressing faster than Nino (as per Capuano yesterday). That was not a timetable… but if I take out my “between the lines” glasses, that means Gillies will probably see the first scoresheet… even if it is just TOI and/or PIM.
I’d hate to see them go into the ranger game with the lineup they’ve put on the ice for the first two. I bet there are some changes thurs, or at least by Saturday. Old groins won’t ALL hold up for the first four.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
I think Martin can handle the role you seem to be alluding to for the Ranger game.
DiBo or Haley would be fine in the agitator role, but yeah, then someone has to go. And for as much as they’ve deployed Pandolfo on the PK (and as well as the PK has done), I don’t see it happening just yet.
Rolston...
…could be the odd man out v TB if they want to finally get a look at Strome… or v TB if they feel they need more agitation. I wouldn’t rule out Bailey seeing some pine.. They are in the best position they’ve been in for 15 years. Where they have forward depth up the wazoo.
Maybe it’s mediocre depth, but they do have warm bodies to fill inefective performance holes… rather than emergency un prepared AHLers who are there on an emergency basis only.
But you’re right, after all the shit I’ve given JPinUniondale, he’s earned his NHL wage so far.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
They could win the division this year.
I dont see it happening.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Cappy just wanted that first win...
I doubt hes thinking that he wants to save Monty for another night..
Maybe, but you have to look at the schedule.
It’s the reason we saw a good amount of backup goalies last year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Running Total
Still Goalpost 1, Kyle 0. Not keeping track of glass shots.
Streit: A-
3.350 (2 games)
Staios: C-
2.000 (2)
AMac: A-
2.850 (2)
Hamonic: B+
3.300 (2)
Mottau: C+
1.650 (2)
Eaton: B-
2.350 (2)
(Last night I bumped AMac down to ‘C’ for last game. Anyone see obvious adjustments for this game? I gave Streit and AMac the nod over Hamonic because they were the main reason for each of the goals. Although, without Hamonic’s shot, Amac doesn’t score.)
Both goals came from the point today, huh?
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 10, 2011 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
I think camp was too big
For such a limited amount of games. I really don’t think mist of these guys have their game legs yet.
I hope they find them soon though…there is a lot of cruising around with elevated sticks. The D did look noticeably better.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 5:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
They need more preseason games for the NHLers. Practice time is great, but you can’t come into the season cold and blow the first few games.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
Just back from the game
Sure a win is a win, and Montoya was great, but be
lieve me when I say that aside from 2 goals, great penalty killing, Hamonic, Streit, Martin, Rolston and a few others – the team looked lost and just hanging on for more than half the game They were pushed around by a bigger D, and were mostly dumping the puck in. The offense needs practice. The Eaton Mattou pairing looks small and overmatched.
On a positive note
When we don’t play our best and still win, were getting points while improving.
Thou shalt not recognize false enemies, they are the Rangers, you shall have no other enemies before them.
AND "Thank you Dale Tallon"
by since70too on Oct 10, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This wasn't the impression I got from today's game
Definately not the first period. They didn’t look nearly as good in the 2nd and 3rd but I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were clearly overmatched. The wild outshot the Isles considerably but didn’t get a lot of good shots off.
The Tavares line had looked outstanding in my opinion, it seemed like every shift they were generating scoring opportunities. They took some hits, especially Tavares, but that was because he was going to the net hard and that was the only way to stop him.
Of course with monsterous, gigantic blueliners like Jared Spurgeon its no wonder the Isles had a tough time. All kidding aside though the Wild do have a tough, hard-hitting team but at no point during the game did I think the Islanders looked too small or soft. A lot has been made this offseason about how the Islanders are a smaller, softer team yet so far this hasn’t seemed like an issue. Its early, but IMO size doesn’t appear to be the biggest concern
I saw zero "softeness" nor being pushed around by a bigger D either
The main guys throwing their weight around were Gillies, Latandresse, Johnson. Yes, they had some weight on D but Parenteau, Tavares, Nielsen had little trouble working around them along the boards.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Isles only had 5 shots over last 2 periods.
by Battlin Bily on Oct 11, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Killing 6 penalties in 2 periods can deflate a team like that.
We need to stay out of the damn box. It’s killing us.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
We definitely need to stay out of the penalty box. But it is not ‘killing us’- the PK has done its job.
I would not like to keep risking it, though.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
But it's Mike Mottau's favorite place!
Official choice of Lighthouse Dog #1.
by Fabtraption on Oct 11, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Although today was an improvement over Sayurdays debockle
They are going to need to step it up. The 1st period was really the only decent period of the game….If they are to contend for the playoffs 1 decent period out of 6 is not going to work.
The way this is going the Captian of the next Cup contending Islanders team is still in grade school......Results do matter..
I agree with what Keith said above
The preseason is too short, 5 games only? Adding to that a week between the preseason and regular season opener?
For teams that are established cup contenders with a ton of veteran presence, may not be impacted by that, but a young team trying to take that next step may take a few games to get going
There are still 80 games left, I am not going to equate 1 period out of 6 of good hockey in just 2 games = no playoffs. Way too small of a sample size to determine that.
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Oct 10, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the PK, but too many penalties are dangerous.
Eventually ones going to get through.
Residing on the BEast coast.
Corsi script is back on
And not surprisingly the numbers don’t look good for Bailey especially – twice the worst forward – and all of the 3rd line who really haven’t contributed much at all in these two games. JT’s line, as you’d expect, got the most favourable zonestarts and did reasonably well, I however certainly like how JT’s developed his game. The 4th line got rather easy minutes, but very solid results again. And Frans was very good tonight, while Grabner and Okposo don’t seem to be at the top of their game, yet.
By the way, these sheets are now available for the pre-season games, too – at Boston, vs New Jersey, at Calgary, at New Jersey. The final game against the Bruins in Bridgeport wasn’t tracked. As always, zonestarts and in this kind of games especially competition need to be taken into account when looking into these numbers. Haven’t had the time to do that in detail, but at first glance it doesn’t look like we’d discover someone who was surprisingly good/bad in these games. Strome however got pretty easy minutes and still struggled a bit. Staios and Pandolfo seemed to be relatively solid, indeed just ahead of guys like Ness, Wishart, Frischmon, Haley.
Thanks. And damn! Come on Bailey, let's turn it around.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Just saw this.
Very happy about it.
The numbers are here: http://timeonice.com/shots1112.php?gamenumber=20027 Tavares/PAP led the team at +6 Corsi/Fenwick, as you might expect though of course they were probably aided by zone-starts.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
Martin ihas positive fenwick
in both games (game 20014). What have you thought of him so far? I thought he’s looked much better albeit a small sample, he has been making nice passes and limiting the explosive “out of position” hits so far. (Probably zone-start inflated, but still).
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Can't tell and I missed today's game (Federal Income Tax Class).
Martin’s issues are going to be one of the hardest IMO to spot with human eyes —> it’s hard for anyone to ignore his fun hits and to see when he’s out of position, and unlike certain D-Men, it’s not obvious when he is due to the player being clearly in the middle of nowhere during a goal.
Behindthenet.ca is up and running for Isles players, at least until Ryan Strome plays (BTN can only display a team’s stats if it knows who each player is, and rookies aren’t yet in the database. Thus: Strome being scratched meant Isles data was valid from the beginning. I don’t know what happens when Strome gets a shot, but I suspect just his data will be missing ala Mark Katic last year).
The first thing, after 5 games or so, we can look at is the Zone-Starts of everyone. But it’s too early to know yet.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Glad you asked...
I listened to the game today, and was at the game on Saturday night. By sight, Martin was engaged on Saturday. The pregame had Cappy praising the fourth line for doing EXACTLY what he is preaching. Chip pucks deep, engage, compete and create chances.
If Cappy is a CORSI guy Martin might replace Rolston with Martin to get Comeau and Bailey going. On Saturday Rolston looked like a special teams player. He was really helpful on the PP, but MEH the rest of the game. It’s only fair to say that most of the team was MEH, but the rest of the team isn’t making $5M as a one year money launderer.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Rolston is definitely the most expendable player
Though I guess he’d have to be scratched to not play because we need his salary to stay above the floor?
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
(Well Pandolfo is the most expendable forward)
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
We can always ahl him and keep our cap hit on the nhl roster.
Or throw him on the LTIR. We can play with him if we need to open the roster spot. But if he stays healthy he should help a lot more then he hurts.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Can't do it (cap hit) via AHL
Once you Redden, he is in Redden land. Interestingly, the Avery demotion means the Stars are in danger of falling below the cap floor once some of their guys come off IR. (Because Dallas still has a half-Avery cap hit from when he was claimed on re-entry.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
No, it's different with +35 contracts:
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/learnthegame/a/nhl_salary_cap.htm
“If the 35+ player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.”
Thus Rolston having almost the same cap hit(little lower) still against the cap for us. It’s the reason why the Devils needed Rolston off the roster to make Parise cap room. He would have counted against the cap even in the minors.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Sorry, thought you were talking about DiPietro!
That’s what I get for thread-hoppin’.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Martin was bounced around a little bit today
I think with BC/JB for a shift or two.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
u listened to the isles radio broadcast?
WRHU? What did you think….not bad right? I liked their post game a lot last year…lots of good quotes from players/coaches.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Twitter: @mikeryaninc
"Past performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Results"
"Listening is a Skill" -Jack Capuano
WRHU via XM
So I got a clear satellite radio signal. King does an excellent job (wouldn’t particularly care if he replaced Howie). Because it was XM there was no post-game. But the in game sound bites were pretty good and the interviews were a little college radio-ish, but the extracted good info.
I plan on using it to replace some of the out-of-town (I’m on center ice) announcers that I can’t stand.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Indeed
Only challenge with that route, I’ve found, is the WHRU feed (whether through their site or through nhl.com) is ahead of the Center Ice feed. So you will know what you’re about to see … before you see it.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
You could use that to your advantage
Scam dumb friends out of money maybe?
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Oct 11, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If I was as fast...
as Grabner and they were as slow as Witt. I’m guessing the delay is only 3-5 seconds… and I don’t have any friends anyway.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
You wouldn't believe the number of times
I’ve done this and pressed “skip backward” on the DVR remote instinctively to make them sync up.
Like reaching for the skip-back “DVR” button on the car radio … doh!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Thought Martin is 2 for 2 now in strong showings
Honestly…Pandolfo too, although some of that is his PK work. Ben said they had better matchups, so maybe that’s part — but I’ll take our 4th line outplaying the other’s 4th line.
I’ve just been rewatching this one with more time and no pressure from ::cough:: work, and my god were some of those penalty calls awful. I don’t know how much I can even blame them for not “staying out of the box” with calls like this. Refs just exhibited so little understanding of what was going on (Staios’ “crosscheck” being another example).
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Its always a fucking adventure the way the refs call an islander game
by KO21 on Oct 10, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Once we start winning I hope we get the "Penguins Effect"
Isles jerseys I've owned: Fisherman, Tim Connolly, Josh Bailey RBK Edge edition. I've got a history of success.
What I've noticed
is he is making some nice passes…or getting the puck towrd the net. Unfortunately, since he is the crease crasher guy, nobody is there to get them. His hands look better and he looks a little faster.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Noticed that some too
At this point, I’m ready to celebrate when the fourth line doesn’t spend whole shifts in its own zone.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
exactly
Martin’s been good, engaged, certainly trying to put the puck on net and indeed with some nice flashes of a decent passing ability. Pandolfo similar and so far Reasoner’s been the one not exactly looking sharp.
As for the matchups, against Flordia and through two periods against the Wild, Reasoner&Co. definitely were #4 in the rotation. So, whenever the opposing coach tried to get one of his lines away from a certain matchup, Capuano would respond with Bailey. So, for example, that would mean a few shifts for Bailey against secondary checkers (originally sent out by the opposition to check JT or Nielsen), like Goc/Bergenheim or Clutterbuck/Brodziak. Left for Reasoner are then mainly shifts against the 4th line or secondary-scoring units, like Cullen/Latendresse.
Now, the problem so far has been that Goc and Brodziak are too strong for Bailey’s line. They can’t generate any offense against such good checkers and even struggle to hold their own. Reasoner’s competition is a bit easier to play against because some of those players are not that complete players. However, Reasoner’s line also has just played better hockey.
The question for Capuano now is of course whether to make some adjustments there, give Bailey some easier minutes. Apparently, that would decrease his TOI a bit and that’s not really what they want I guess. So, well’see, it also depends on the setup of the opposition of course. Not quite sure what Tampa will want, they juggle lines quite frequently, but I guess it will be something like this:
Nielsen vs. St Louis-Stamkos-Downie
JT vs. Thompson-Moore/Ritola-Hall
Bailey vs. Malone-Lecavalier-Purcell
Reasoner vs. Shannon-Moore/Ritola-Connolly
So, one question for Capuano might be who to play against Lecavalier – Bailey or Reasoner. From how he drew up the first five periods the answer would be Bailey, but from how they actually performed and what I noticed during the 3rd period last night I think it might be Reasoner after all, though of course Lecavalier will exceed both these lines in TOI and thus they’ll have to share that duty to some extent anyway, especially if Capuano doesn’t want Reasoner’s line out there for much more than 10+ minutes or if there again will be lots of penalites to kill.
Bottom line is, Reasoner’s line’s been good, might be in for some tougher minutes and Bailey’s just needs to step up their game or they’ll lose TOI.
Yeah, we knew this could be a problem going in, Reasoner's line outplaying Bailey's.
It may have to be dealt with sooner then later. Duty swapping, player swapping, something. What’s your opinion on testing Reasoner with Comeau/Rolston for a couple games and Bailey with the 4th liners?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Reasoner hasn't looked all that impressive to me
Only two games, but Reasoner looks good defensively and a non-factor attacking. Perhaps putting him with Comeau more would help that.
I was hoping for him to be similar to Sillinger, in that he can help to create some scoring chances. So far he doesn’t look much more effective than Konopka at EV. (Brace for attacks from every direction.) Good penalty killer, though.
He’s done almost as much attacking as KO/Grabner/Moulson, though. It is still very early, so hard to see where players are yet.
by North Dakota Red Eagle on Oct 11, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Reasoner as you said doesn't have the offensive weapons to do it.
Martin/Pandolfo are no Rolston/Comeau. It’s a tough call.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
And Reasoner is obviously no Tavares or Grabner offensively.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Arent they all tied in points?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 12, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
If the struggles continue they’ll definitely need to do something. But I don’t think they should do too much, yet. They’ve got two more games at home now, use them to create some more favourable matchups where possible and just hope for some more guys to get their best game back and lines to start clicking.
Generally, I think Nino’s injury hurt their plans a bit for the bottom-6, though on the other hand a healthy Nino would maybe have hurt the top line… I think they really wanted to start him with Moulson and JT, then build a strong 3rd unit with Bailey, Rolston and PA, who’d indeed work well together in my opinion. I think PA really is the guy who could get Bailey going again, I think he was a big part to Bailey’s success in the early stages last season.
Comeau could have stayed on LW, play with Reasoner and Martin and that could have worked, too – Comeau’s best minutes have been with Sim (and Schremp) over the last two seasons.
So, after all, maybe they’ll hope it goes ok until Nino is back and then will try just that indeed. However, as said, the top line then would be a concern for me…
by BenHasna on Oct 11, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, good synopsis. I think your right on with that analysis and suggestion.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Finally
somebody else confirming the “Sim and Schremp” anomaly! Thank you!
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
KO and Grabs haven't been very effective...
I’m especially surprised that KO isn’t noticeable like he always is even when hes not scoring…
Early, and we haven't yet seen what lines they've been on.
And Grabs did play 3:32 of PK today.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
he had bad games here or there.
Lets be honest. It just seemed like every game in the 2nd half.
Also he had a few chances in the first game, but they were all broken up.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Haha
Bruno just got his first Lightning goal.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
10th career
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Islanders South 2 Washington 1
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Oct 10, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
crazy game...
… And I hate to say this but these two teams are so much further along than we are right now.
Granted, they are supposed to be better but they just play the game so much quicker than we did today, makes me a little nervous. We still have a long way to go though.
But with Montoya in net, we won’t lose another game ha.
by BaltimoreIslander on Oct 10, 2011 8:25 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm looking forward to those tests...
like dentist appointments.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
And Minnesota was without one of their top-six
Who is totally innocent because he didn’t mean for his stick to take the other guy’s teeth out.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 10, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe
Montoya IS our #1 going forwards and Capuano thought we’d come out of the gate looking stale which is why he didn’t play a “weaker” goalie- to keep us in the game. I mean it’s not like our team got alot of opportunities to play together during the preseason. While we were playing split squad and figuring out who would round out the bottom 6, teams like Florida were playing full squad preseason games.
I'm pretty sure most teams were doing the same as we were.
3 of our 4 preseason games were against teams with very suboptimal rosters as well.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
by garik16 on Oct 10, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
P/M 10/11/11 2-1 WIN VS MIN
+ SeasonGoalDiffIndex GF 2(1.00/-2.02) GA 1(1.50/1.43) This will be part of my P/M going forward. The SGDI is a season long indicator of where the Islanders are in relation to their goal differential.
During the rebuild they have been (2008(-.95), 2009(-.51), 2010(-.43) and this year their goal needs to be closer to 2006 when they were (.10). Right now they are (-.50) In 2006 they had a 3.02 goals for per game average, and a 2.93 GA per game avg. I’ll try to keep this logged like I had the 12/16/10 stats last year.
+ I didn’t see the game, but Kinger did an excellent job on the radio (XM).
Some stuff from last year.
- Thirty Goal Crew (Moulson(0), Grabner(0), Tavares(0), Comeau(0)) These are the players I think have a shot at 30 goals this year. If there anybody hits the 25 goal pace I’ll add them… if anybody drops under the 20G pace after 15 games I’ll drop them off this list. No goals in two games by the crew.
+ GOALTENDING Couldn’t ask for much more. I only saw the highlights, but 3 goals in two games is keeping your team in both games. I haven’t heard anything about about a "bad goal" in this one so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
+ PP 1/3 it sounded like they were moving the puck well and .33 is always a pretty good PP%. AMAC on the second PP unit with Hamonic sounds like a plan as well.
+ PK 0/6 0 OUTSTANDING. This is going to be a key to weighing the swap of Reasoner and Konopka. The PK was okay last year, but if it can sneak into the top 8 it will make sneaking into the top 8 in the East that much easier.
+ The scape wagon: Mottau is still sitting in there from the first game. It’s gonna take a good game by him, or a worse one by somebody else to get him out. No new additions is a plus. Bailey’s Corsi is gonna get him in here, but I need more visual evidence of poor play.
GENERAL OBSERVATONS
- Josh Bailey, according to the Corsi (Thanks Ben) was on the ice for almost HALF the shots directed at Montoya (35). I think we were all hoping for a more offensive performance from the
Bailey(-12)/Comeau(-6) tandom, especially when they are together with Rolston(-4). This will hopefully improve over time. The -12 might also be a reflection of that line not getting enough shots off.
+ Matt Martin, another 5 hit performance, and a lot of air time (pre game) about how well he is is playing with Reasoner and Pandolfo. Which means…
+ Jay Pandolfo, not really for this game, but because I have given his signing a lot of crap. I’d much rather see Haley, Ullstrom or Nino there… but SnowCap have worked the roster pretty well for more than 50 games. I’ll get off the Pandolphin flipper, and let it play out.
+ Hamonic, maybe MacHamonic… this looks to be the 1A pairing. Until deHaan or Donovan or Wishart(?) replaces Steve Staios, they are going to be the sack draggers. Another reason I want to see haley on that fourth line… I don’t want to see Hamonic with 15 fighting majors this year. There was clearly some Minn rough stuff going on, and there needs to be a few more bodies to help keep that from happening.
+ AHL Justin Dibenedetto may be on his way to earning that fourth line spot with a hatty.
- 85* on the way from NY to VA today… only bit of traffic was at the Great Adventure exist… come on people THE DEVILS WERE HOME TODAY… you needed to be in Newark!
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
by JPinVA on Oct 10, 2011 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Funny that Bruno should score just now
Because Mottau is already this year’s Bruno. Jesus Maria.
On the washed-up retreads: I’m not exactly surprised by this thus far (I think they can play, just not sure they can play all season), but Rolston, Pandolfo and Staios have all been fine to my eyes. Done their job. I just hope reinforcements are ready when Father Time comes knocking in December. (I know Staios says he’s around to nurture the young kids when times get tough and stale in mid-winter, but I’ll let his back, shoulder, groin and anything else do the talking.)
Personal scapegoats are Mottau and, doggone it Bailey and Comeau. Okposo and Grabner didn’t really look very good today either. Moulson fairly silent except for one JT-created chance, but PAP was flying all over the place.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Pierre-Alexander
That will keep me from thinking Papineau…
PA was (IMHO) the second best player on teh ice Saturday. I didn’t see this one, but I’ll take your word for it. Parentau is in front of the parole board this year and he’s doing all the right things. We can’t tie him down with the journeyman-AAAA player tag anymore, but the one year extension was an opportunity more than anything. What if he does put up another 50-burger? He could fit in nicely in the top 9 going forward… and we’d have to start looking at other players differently… and longer. The same goes for Comeau. An MBC only season for Blake (I don’t think last year was all MBC, but he needed sweeps week to keep him on the radar) could be the end for him as an Islander. Too many kids on the farm.
These guys are fighting it from above (Moulson, JT, Grabner) and below (Strome, Nino, Ullstrom, Rhett).
COMPETITION IS AWESOME!
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
Here's to competition!
And Bill Brasky.
Tavares was pretty clever on some faceoffs again. The hand-eye coordination. Guardedly hoping there’s real Jedi progress there.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
And BC's making 2.5 this year
PA has been great…and he also stepped up to mug down somebody who laid out JT in the first game. He is doing some of the things I would like to see out of KO and BC.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
SeasonGoalDiffIndex GF 2(1.00/-2.02) GA 1(1.50/1.43) This will be part of my P/M going forward. The SGDI is a season long indicator of where the Islanders are in relation to their goal differential.
We may have our differences, but this isn’t one of them. (Unsurprisingly) Goal differential is a key factor used in all sports’ advanced statistics (Baseball and other sports included, using points/runs instead of goals) in determining truly how well a team is playing. If a team has a good goal differential but a losing record, it’s probably been unlucky and will likely have better results in the future, and vice versa. Long story short, this is a good thing to keep track of.
(In Hockey, Corsi is often a better indicator of where goal differential will go, but goal differential is still damn good).
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
I like, and I'll add 5-on-5 GF/GA
Which right now stands at 0.50 (1 GF, 2 GA).
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
I have that one brewing...
on the spread sheet… I have no historical reference though.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
History
0.81 in 2010-11
0.83 in 09-10
and — cover your eyes — 0.68 in Tank for Tavares
0.89 on 07-08
1.18 in 06-07
Assuming that’s all accurate of course. The figures for the current year at nhl.com are all messed up for the Isles at least
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Note, while the number didn't seem to improve last year, it basically stayed the same despite the team as a whole getting over a year younger.
Umm yeah that’s a good sign.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
And it was godawful in November/December
I don’t have the numbers (I really should track it month by month at least) but remember citing it a few times. It was scary during the first half of the season.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
And being way, way mroe injured than the previous season
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Oct 12, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Taveras should've gotten an assist for Nielsons goal...
Taveras took the puck out of his own zone, along the wall, through several defenders, got it deep single handedly…If it wasnt his hard work for there wouldnt have been a Nielson goal from Streit…He shouldve gotten some recognition but thats where we miss Jaffe who was so much better at breaking down plays than Butchie…
Don't worry about it. You'll see JT on the score sheet soon enough.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
And then they don't need to show up on the scoresheet to do so!
These things do eventually show up on the score-sheet. And it is nice to see they do so. But honestly, I doubt JT cares. He knows what he did. So does the team. So does the Toronto scout watching him every game.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
I hear ya...He knows and the team knows, but the avg fan wouldnt know..
Im not concerned about JT’s feelings, lol….Jaffe wouldnt miss stuff like that…He was always educating the avg fans…
just a thought..
… Upon reading a couple of the write-ups (hornick and staple) they seem to be putting a good portion of the blame on the wild goal on Tavares and him trying to do too much..
I haven’t watched a replay but watching it live (before JT got the puck) I remember watching Staios give a pretty awful flip type pass to Tavares when it seemed that he could have just played it on the ice to him…
Then Tavares coughs it up and Staios tries? to pass it to Streit maybe (I think almost along the blue line, but it leaves the zone). Two things here: a. If it was a pass, you have to be able to make that without having the puck come out of the zone or b. If a d-man is under pressure like that, surely a “seasoned veteran” should know to just dump the puck back in, not even attempt that pass.
In addition, when Minnesota gets the puck I remember not being impressed with Staios’ defending (although the first points I make hold more water IMO bc that is a lot to ask of a defenseman on this particular play)
In summation, not saying Tavares shouldn’t be pointed out for trying to move the puck through two defenders so close to the blue line, but I was shocked that nothing was made of Staios’ play both leading up to Tavares’ TO and after the TO.
Just a thought though, curious if I’m alone on thinking this…
by BaltimoreIslander on Oct 10, 2011 9:30 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Here's how I saw it (which is in the recap but I'll expand)
Yes, Staios definitely made it hard for JT with that flip pass. The puck was on end, so I don’t totally blame him for the flip, especially with JT’s hands.
Saying JT did too much might be overstating it — he didn’t have time to do much, and as soon as he tried to settle it, they poked it away. There is a safer play there, but it’s bang-bang.
Also bang-bang: Staios’ reaction at the blueline. I thought at the time it was a sweep to try to jam it back in and turn around, but upon review just now it does look like he took that quarter-second to make an actual pass, which was redirected (so he’s as guilty as JT in the decision-making department).
I didn’t mind his D so much after that. He kept with his guy, kept him to the outside, forced him to make an improbable drop of a wobbly puck which the first Islanders back (Streit and Parenteau) should have prevented from being shootable. That said, those garbage bouncing puck plays — we’ll call them Coliseum Ice Specials — are a surprise and I usually don’t begrudge anyone on them too much. To me the bigger problem was at the other blueline where Staios definitely played his part. (That may be about 200 words to say: I agree.)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 10, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He probably got benched
for passing it to Staios in the first place…there has to be rules.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My few Observations
Well we won a game, so it could be way worse at this point. So far the rest of the games in the league have been fun and exciting, maybe its just because hockey is back, but I am glued to anything hockey right now.
I think as far as the opener and the 2/3 of the Wild game, where they looked a bit flat, is really just rust from playing very few preseason games and just getting used to the game again. We have a lot of players coming off injuries and talk about a long off season. That being said, I think they will only get better from here on out. One good period, turns into two, which turns into three.
Of the two games, the 4th line has really impressed me the most, even though they havent scored. For all our banter of Pandolphin, he has meshed well and played his role as 4th liner and PKer to a T. Matt Martin has looked sharped and natural with Marty at center. Shooting, hitting, energizing and playing simple has been what the line has been about. Exactly what they need to do.
Montoya has looked sharp and has made the saves he has needed too. Not really too worried about the goalie situation yet, its just too early on to make conclusion or speculate what will happen.
JT has definitely looked good behind the net and driving to the net. Chemistry with Moulson and PAP is still there. The FNGO line has shown some flashes but has not completely taken off yet. Again, give it a few games, it will click. Then ready for take-off. Same could be said with the 3rd line too.
Overall they need to cut back on penalties and dangling in the neutral zone. Get the puck deep. The perimeter defense has played its role, keeping the Wild for the most part to the outside and limiting good shooting opportunities. Power Play looked smooth for both games, they should have finished in the first game, would have really got them going I feel.
Again, its two games, were at .500, we are playing some good opponents coming up, but they are beatable, and we are playing at home. Tampa let up 5 goals this past game in a crazy back and forth with Washington. The Rangers have dropped the first two opening games in Europe, offense lacking, Lunquist saving, but playing in their first New York game, might as well be a home game. So I am looking forward to improvement, and an increased compete level.
Oh and Dibo, Dibo, Dibo, looking good. Cizikas creating the situations. Nice to dream of the future. Hopefully this was all somewhat coherent.
Not only coherent
But also: I like “Pandolphin.” Gotta remember that one.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Not sure if I stole it from DP's body parts...
But I used it in a failed attempted to make a “button” reference… Dolphin…flipper… pinball machine… button… Sweet bald headed Jesus I was behind the wheel too long today.
So the © goes to the P’s Knees!
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
I patented pandolphin
You can look it up. And also Pandawful (which he haven’t had the chance to use, thankfully), Old Panda and Pandunderful.
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 10, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Give it time
He’ll get his Scape Panda moments.
And thanks all for the etymology lessons.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Behold the panda dolphine
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 11, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well done!
I think I woke up next to her once… mornin’ after St. Patty’s day… around ’87.
Who cares... John Tavares is here until 2017-18!!!
oh two other non related comments
In overtime, which is 4-4 for 5 minutes, why is a penalty 2 minutes. I know why, but would it not make more sense to proportionate it to a minute. 2 minutes of 4 – 3 is pretty much a win for the PP time about 90 percent of the time. Just a thought, to make things more interesting.
Also, JR and Eddie on NHL OT just got in a funny heated argument about Vancouver being Canada’s team and that they should have won the cup. Eddie was saying no, Leafs and Canadiens fan were not cheering for Vancouver, while JR was saying that Vancouver was Canada’s team and that everybody wanted the cup in Canada no matter who the team was. Interesting, and got heated. Fun stuff.
I wonder if JR was just trolling?
I can never tell with him.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Gotta say
after watching the Lighning/Washington game, unless these guys have a stellar week of practice, they are seriously going to get their asses kicked. Those two teams were flying. Some spotty goaltending, but they were all over the place. Also, Stamkos’ shot is absolutely vicious.
Strangely, in the shootout, Guy Boucher went with Nate and Dominic Moore who predictably didn’t score and TB lost.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No no, you're forgetting Isles Rule #2: "That team played down to the Isles"
Rule #1 of course being, they only win when there’s no pressure. Like today. No pressure because they actually LIKE sending kids home crying.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Those children are spoiled anyway
Do we now have pressure of being over .500? We are currently in 10th, but a win could put us in playoff position…and there will be less children to disappoint.
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
by Keith Quinn on Oct 10, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The team still looks like the are stuck in quicksand. Where is the so called explosive offense? They have not proven a thing yet.
by Battlin Bily on Oct 10, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Who says they are explosive?
2. Who says they’ve proven anything yet?
3. I like pandas.
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
by Dominik on Oct 11, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
PANDAS ARE EVIL AND MUST BE DESTROYED.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
by garik16 on Oct 11, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone seen Jim Jeffries standup? He has a hilarious skit on Pandas.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Here's a link: (NSFW language):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eqUtK61SOs
He’s a bit raunchy in his standup, but he is hilarious.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Jeffries is awesome
NY Islanders, just one irrational free agent signing away from contention!
Website:Lighthouse HockeyTwitter: @KeithLHHockey
Over this preseason I have read fans and writers going on and on about how great the Isles offensive is supposed to be. Bailey, Com, Grabs, Moulson, KO, Rolston, these guys are all invisible. Only 5 shots on net over the last two periods is not going to cut it. Montoya is on fire, but there is no way him or anyone else can keep up a .940. This is besides they have very little team toughness at all, but last year they did. Who made that decision, Snow or Cap?
I like pandas too.
by Battlin Bily on Oct 11, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, Comeau, Grabs, Moulson and KO haven’t done much, but are you really going to slam them after 120 minutes of play? Comeau has 41 goals the past two seasons. Grabner had 34 and showed in the Calder voting, Moulson has back to back 30 goal seasons.
Doesn’t that count for more than two games?
by afrosupreme on Oct 11, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
this.
After watching 2 minutes of caps-lightning I knew that Thursday is going to be tough, just looks like a completely different level from where we’re at.
by BaltimoreIslander on Oct 10, 2011 10:44 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, I'm worried as crap about a slow start. We struggled a lot more then we should have against the Wild and Pantgers.
We could get rolled if we don’t start clicking.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
We've played
really well against the Caps the last few years, but it could be because they’ve taken us a lighter than other opponents (although I do also think the Isles played some of their best hockey against them as well-little bit of both).
But, yeah, from a talent/development standpoint we’re not even close to them. But we are on the same path they were about 4-5 years ago.
Am I allowed to comment on this game?
Or will anything I say set off another blog war?
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
I think some of the more vocal regulars took care of that at lunch time
So pull up a chair!
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Duly Noted
I guess there wasn’t anything egreGillies egregious that happened during the game,so I’m safe there too.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Oct 11, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
That's right
Clusterbuck didn’t board anyone from behind :)
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
And
Staubitz was a scratch & Kassian barely left the bench.
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Oct 11, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
For those interested, some interesting twitter talk on the Isles atm and the third line in general, going on between myself, timoseppa, and Keith on twitter.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Timo Seppa: @garik16 @KeithLHHockey Josh Bailey. Robert Nilsson. Discuss.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Good read from what I have read.
I’d love the Reasoner experiment on the 3rd line and make Bailey earn his toi. Or at least just a reasoner chance for a couple games, just to see how it works. Not necessarily now, could be done closer to november.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Bailey on JT's wing is also an idea
One they tried briefly before, but that was a younger, far weaker version of JT at the time.
And then you also have JT buddy Moulson getting bumped to, “What? Bumped to let a an ineffective enigma find his legs?”
Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.
Exactly. I'm all for trying Bailey out on a wing, but I don't think RW is his spot.
Defintiely not the 1st line with JT given Moulson, but I would actually like to see Bailey tested on LW a lot with a “good center” playing with. With the way things are going, I honestly would try this for a few games as an experiment and see how it goes:
Bailey-Reasoner-Comeau
Martin-Rolston-Pandolfo
I don’t see much harm in that experiment, and if Bailey can’t do well in that role, I don’t think he ever will do good. That’s less taxing then center, gives him 2 20goal threats(yeah I think Reasoner has it in him, more likely 15, but he should be a 20goal threat next to comeau), gives him more of a shot to find his offense not being guarded by other “centers” per say, and it should allow him to produce more offensively with more offensive freedom and less defensive responsibility. Just a thought I’ve ran through my head. It somewhat makes sense to try and “should” balance out the lines well while giving the 3rd line a nice boost if Reasoner could repeat his play from last year.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
And of course, to Peter Botte, it's all about DP
by DP'sknee(andhipandflubugandotherknee) on Oct 11, 2011 12:40 AM EDT reply actions
I hate the way some writers write. It's clear they are on a mission to "convince" you of something, usually negative.
Thus this article is trying to point Capuano in a bad light. Some frigging writers.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
CRAP
OK we won and that is the only good thing about this game. Oh, sorry, penalty killing. That’s it. More abysmal passing, more horrendous play in our own zone, and absolutely the worst face-off team in the NHL. Constantly beaten to the puck in every zone, not enough shooting, and did I mention pathetic on face-offs?? We should consider ourselves extremely LUCKY to have won this game. I AM NOT IMPRESSED!!!
Youth WILL be served!!
The REBUILD marches on!!
by upstateislesfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:55 AM EDT reply actions
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SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
