Canada in (Hockey) Crisis...but Garth's Rebuild Keeps Chugging Along
by BCISLEMAN on Jan 6, 2011 1:03 AM EST
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PrintEditor's Note: BC checks in with a WJC recap -- and draft implications, of course. Much more after the jump/poll if you're viewing this on the LHH home page.
Has any nation's identity ever been so linked with a game as Canada's is with hockey? It is hard to say. Last year, we were just returning from New York when the US beat Canada and the sense of gloom was palpable even among those who did not impress me as sports fans.
This year all over the TV, the blogosphere, and in every Canadian town there has been a sense of the need to put things right. Many were resentful of the US being anointed pre-tourney favorites. The outrage heightened when the Swedish coach disrespected Team Canada after his team's skills competition victory relegated Canada to a quarterfinal tilt against Switzerland.
The sun seemed restored to its rightful place in the firmament when Canada beat a tough Swiss team and walked all over the US. Beating Russia in the Gold Medal game after the way Canada handled them in the first round seemed like a given. This sentiment seemed confirmed as Canada built up a 3-0 lead going into the third period. Redemption was just twenty minutes away, baby!!!
And then the sky fell in.
TSN's announcing team called it the worst collapse in the history of Canadian junior hockey. It may be the worst collapse in the history of Canadian international hockey competition. I have seen the loser look after a championship match ends many times and in many sports, but I am not sure if any athletes ever looked as devastated as Ryan Ellis, Brayden Schenn, and the rest of the Canadian team.
Ellis, Schenn, and US goalie Jack Campbell were clearly the best players in the tourney and were acknowledged as such. As I have said before, no 2011 prospect emerged as a dominant player. Ryan Nugent Hopkins was not even on Team Canada's roster. Gabriel Landeskog was lost for the tourney after the first game against Norway when he aggravated an ankle injury suffered in his last junior tilt before the break.
That left Adam Larsson and Sean Couturier with the stage to themselves as far as the draft was concerned. Both played well.
The first video of Larsson's goal against the Russians in the semifinal round shows how devastating his shot from the point is. The second begins with a highlight reel goal by Couturier to open the Canada-Sweden match and has some embarrassing moments for Larsson in that same game.
In general, however, both players played well and showed that they merited consideration for the top pick, but neither dominated as John Tavares did in 2009 and Nino Niederreiter did last year. It may be a matter of personality. Both JT and Nino ARE that kind of special character who wants the puck on his stick and tries to lift his team to victory by sheer force of will. Maybe Larsson and Couturier are, ala Patrick Marleau, very talented players who do their jobs well but rely on others to lead. I just do not know.
There is no doubt that any of the four top picks would make the Islanders a better team. Either Couturier or Nugent-Hopkins could be the playmaker John Tavares needs to ignite that top line. I know I have complained before about Nugent-Hopkins' lack of size, but what if he IS really as talented as Marty St. Louis? He is actually three inches taller than MSL and only 14 pounds lighter. In a year or two, he will probably be bigger than MSL.
Then there are the two Swedes. Landeskog, with his physical presence, could be JT's Gillies on the top line. And Larsson would certainly complete the Islander defense, especially with the addition of Ty Wishart.
On the latter score, I had a little back and forth with Damian Cristodero, the Bolt beat writer this morning. Seems Wishart was underwhelming in his one brief callup in January, 2009. He clearly was not ready. Things got worse when the Bolts drafted Big Victor that summer. In spite of improved play with Norfolk last year and this, Wishart never got a callup.
Cristodero does not seem to be familiar with Wishart's play with the Admirals and I have not been able to identify an Admirals beat writer per se. Presumably he will be called up for a stint in March and then we will see. My assumption, however, is that if Garth does draft Larsson, eventually Travis Hamonic will be second pairing and Wishart third. If not, they will likely be first and second pairing guys. Whether that will happen as early as next year is unclear...especially with the extension of Milan Jurcina.
Of course, all of this may be moot. Who knows where the Isles' recent resurgence will lead them, especially once Kyle Okposo and Mark Streit return? The Isles are eight points up on the Devils, have two games in hand on them, and will be getting their best injured players back while Zack Parise likely will not be back this year for the Devils. The Devils would appear to have pole position for the #1 overall sewn up.
So if the Isles' floor is the #2 spot, what is the ceiling? With 15 points between the Isles and eighth place Montreal, a serious playoff run is out of the question.
My guess is that the team will rise no higher than the #6 spot. Florida, in the #7 spot, has 8 more points, six more wins, and is 2-0 head to head already. The Isles do have games in hand over Ottawa and Buffalo, seven points ahead in the #5 and #6 spots respectively, but would likely have to win all of their three remaining games against Ottawa and four against Buffalo to catch them. That seems doubtful.
That leaves Toronto and Edmonton. They are two and one point(s) ahead of the Isles respectively, but with the Isles having a game in hand on both teams, it could be argued that the three are effectively tied. Thus tomorrow's tilt against the Oil Islanders vs Oilers coverage The Copper & Blue and the remaining three against the Leafs will likely be critical in determining what the Islanders' odds are in the April lottery.
With some real lottery love, the Isles might yet get the #1 overall. Even if that does not happen, however, odds are that either Sean Couturier, Adam Larsson, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, or Gabriel Landeskog will be standing next to Garth at the podium in June. One more critcal piece in the erector set that is the Garth Snow rebuild now in its third year.
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One thing that really cracked me up during the USA-Sweden tilt
The TSN play by play guy—apparently from Alberta—kept pushing the possibility of the Oil drafting Larsson. Finally, the color guy had enough and called him on it. The play by play guy just muttered something about Larsson being such a good fit.
His point was mostly that the Oil have a lot of Swedish talent and, secondarily, that they are weak on defense both on the roster and in the system. Fact is that AL will be a great fit with any of the teams that are likely to be in position to draft him.
in some ways, Boston and the Island might be better places for AL
In both places, he would be learning the ropes alongside a legit veteran star #1 and would not be expected to do too much too soon.
Boston doesn’t have any more unhappy RFA wingers, I don’t think.
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by red army line on Jan 9, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Never mind, forgot BOS also got TOR’s 1st this year too.
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by red army line on Jan 9, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Teemu Pulkinnen
As I mentioned earlier, Garth may be wishing he’d kept his fourth rounder and used it on Teemu. Imagine getting Nino, Kirill, and Teemu in the same draft?!!! Here’s a THN / ISS post on his WJC performance:
href=“http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/37487-International-Scouting-Services-Blog-Red-Wings-prospect-Pulkkinen-shines-despite-early-Finnish-exit.html#” >
Nice write-up
I turned the final off after 3-0 (silly me). How did our boys look during Canada’s collapse?
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
would have to watch it again to see if I pick up anything in particular
Don’t recall anything glaring that either CDH or CC did. It was more a matter that the entire Canadian team sat back and let the Russians take the game to them. MacKenzie said that this had been one of the best coached, best prepared Canadian junior teams he has seen…which left him all the more baffled. He saw the Canadians start to fold in the late second period and it carried over to the third. He thought Cameron should have called the TO after the second Russian goal rather than the third, but since Canada did not respond even then, he is unsure whether it would have made any difference.
I turned the final off after 3-0 (silly me)
you aren’t the only one, lol
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
TSN coverage of the Canadian kids
I know Canada was pretty upset, but I thought the third period coverage was pretty harsh on the kids. These are still teens playing for relatively free and they were being ripped as the biggest collapse ever. Please save it for the pros. For many of these kids it is draft day and the Junior tournament as the highlight of their career. Having to listen to some guy carp on about how they blew it just sucks. The worst part of the silver medal is you win gold, you win bronze and you lose for silver. All the laughter about Buffalo, Ontario the one minute then dogging the kids for pissing on their parade just sucked the wind out of the coverage. I’m sure no one is more disappointed than the kids in the locker room.
Admittedly, I didn't watch the third, but
I know Canada was pretty upset, but I thought the third period coverage was pretty harsh on the kids. These are still teens playing for relatively free and they were being ripped as the biggest collapse ever.
This is really what makes me always uncomfortable with the whole thing. These are teenagers (well-trained future pros, sure, but still kids) and I know the same thing happens in NCAA to an extent (which also turns my stomach), but the way an entire country puts such focus on this tournament and draws either immense pride (from kids thrown together for a short tournament) or immense shame (from kids, thrown together, for a short tournament) makes me cringe.
I don’t know, it’s a fun tourney. But to rip into these kids for things that can happen in any game or two even in the pros strikes me as insane. In the Olympics (not hockey, but other sports), media are looking for the feel-good stories. In this tourney, it’s like the national army better win or they have brought shame to their families.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I watched the 3rd
I wasn’t paying close attention- But my perception of the TSN crew was, they were respectful of the effort put forward by Russians, and not particularly harsh on the defeated Canadiain kids. To say that it was a major collapse and the team didn’t look good in the third was simply factual.
Nearly enough defensemen to last through the injury bug
You could sense they wanted to remain neutral, but the frustration was palatable. The play-by-play by Gord Miller was spot on, but poor Pierre McGuire. When the puck was shot over the glass by the Russians in the third, you could hear the frustration in his voice that it wasn’t a penalty. I’m all for guys being homers as long as their analysis is straight forward. What I find hard to listen to though, is when a guy is trying to sound neutral and sincere while gritting his teeth.
My perception of the third was that Canada got caught looking to make the big hit and make a statement that they were taking the game back and never established a flow. Russia didn’t doiminate play, but they did try to stretch the rink with long passes and weren’t afraid to go for it. I still thought Canada would gut it out, but then they had a few chances down low that started behind the net that ended up without a shot on goal.
Interesting
Yes, McGuire’s homerism is hard to swallow when it’s poorly masked (and surrounded by non-stop references to hometowns). But I have to remember TSN isn’t geared toward me — I’m just the lucky foreigner listening in.
Having watched some of Roloson and his Lightning get annihilated by the Penguins, I can conclude that in a taste test there is absolutely no announcers more shamelessly homer than the Pens. Those two have really just gotten awful. They are unbridled homer id, vomiting out over the airwaves.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Touche
But gotten “worse” maybe. There was a time I could tolerate Errey. He and Stagger together come off like two isolated frat boys patting each other on the back.
That broadcast desperately misses Lainge, who was excitable and homerish but at least fun and not condescending.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Agree. Bob Errey may as well be wearing his pens jersey and I "heart" Mario lapel pin.
I also agree TSN is geareed towards a Canadian audience, but that is one of the reasons I also posted that we in the lower 48 start to beleive everything about Canadian hockey because we are perpetually innoculated with their view point. Even if a Canadian expresses an opinion on a US network the value is somehow diminished because it is not delivered on CBC or TSN.
The real joke is it the criticism the US gets during the Olympics when everyone around the world moans that the coverage is US-centric. As if NBC which pays almost the entirefreight should be providing neutral feeds around the world for free. What I hate about Olympic coverage is the continual stream of stories about one legged gymnast’s triumphing over trecks through the dessert to eat a goat.
Personally, I always eat a goat before dessert. ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Personally, I always eat a goat before dessert. ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
even spell check would have failed that, but trudging through a bowl of ice cream to eat a goat sure ain’t easy either. And isn’t it in some sort of way that a dessert is far more daunting to a properly hydrated gymnast than a desert anyway?
Haha, yes I think so. (And I echo your frustration with one-legged gymnast triumph features.)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
it’s like the national army better win or they have brought shame to their families.
This is why they draft 18 year olds (NHL and armed forces).
having been in the military
and being older now, a part of it is that your body can do things at 18 that it cannot later. Another part is that at 18, you don’t tend to be as worried about your mortality and have less to live for…so are more inclined to risk your life when called to do so.
I was thinking more along the lines, that you’re invincible and more likely to believe what they’re telling you.
"I’m sure no one is more disappointed than the kids in the locker room."
Very true. Except that for Canadians—at least SOME Canadians—Team Canada is an extension of themselves. The best comparison that comes to mind is the 1980 US Olympic hockey team’s win. At some level, Americans NEEDED them to win in a way that we usually do not. For many Canadians—represented by Grapes—and his Coaches Corner this Saturday may be the equivalent of an address by Mr. Harper—they ALWAYS NEED Canada to win.
Here are some comments from the CBC:
“The goalie just couldn’t come through, so unfortunately we lost,” Vanjoff said. “I’m extremely upset because I figured Canada had it. We’re Canadian. We own the game. It’s our game. But not tonight.”
But one fan at a downtown Toronto bar praised Canada’s efforts. “I’m a little disappointed, but they played their hearts out,” he said.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement congratulating the Canadian team on its silver medal.
"Their competitive spirit, sportsmanship and national pride are an inspiration to younger hockey players and fans across the country, and I look forward to following their achievements in the years to come," he said.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/01/05/world-junior-fans-reaction.html?ref=rss#ixzz1AGt6vje4
Nothing like a taped delayed victory to provide a sense of urgency.
Waiting to actually watch team USA versus Russia was a pain. I had actually watched the Russians beat the US 10-3 at MSG just prior to the Olympics and the game wasn’t as close as the score. I knew the score when I watched the semi-final game and had already celebrated by playing some street hockey bevore running back inside to see how it could actually happen.
Unless the Islanders get the top pick...
I wouldn’t be surprised if Garth moves the pick with how low everyone is talking about the talent. Maybe combine the Isles pick and the Habs 2nd rounder (since it’s going to be 50th overall no matter what) for two first rounders, and then he still has the Isles 2nd round pick which would be a near 1st round pick anyway.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
there is good talent in the first round
it MAY get a little spotty after that. Garth will just pick with the top pick if he is in the top four. He may trade down if not. Using the Montreal pick to move our second pick into the first round would not surprise me if they are targeting someone.
Some other inspired picks
NYR 2010 6th rounder Jesper Fasth looks like the real deal.
also
DRW 2010 second rounder Calle Jarnkrok
Look for Buffalo 2009 1st rounder Zack Kassian and 4th rounder Marcus Foligno to become the Bruise Brothers of the NHL in another year or two. They were the duo who dumped and planted BN and Foligno, in particular, was all over the ice, hitting everything that moved.
Just before the draft the Japers’ Swedish translator had successfully convinced us Jarnok was the best Swede in the 2010 draft. Ha, Detroit, watch out.
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by red army line on Jan 9, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's just a great hockey name, if nothing else
I can’t imagine a guy named Teemu Pulkinnen being BAD at hockey, you know? It’s like finding a Vinnie or a Tony who doesn’t know how to make a pizza.
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didn't really get to watch but
we have drafted F with our top pick the last few seasons, so maybe it is tim eto draft a D. We have some good kids coming up, but it appears that depth is at D is becoming extremely inportant in today’s NHL.
D pairings
Streit-Jurcina
Amac-Hamonic – only because I like them playing together,either could move uo to 1st pair
Larsson-CDH
depth- Hillen, Reese
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
forgot eaton and mottau
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
you are forgetting Eaton and Mottau
and I would guess that IF we draft Larsson and IF his Skelleftea contract is bought out for next year, that he would be on first pairing with Mark.
And Wishart is a top 6 threat with his 2-way potential, size, and shutdown game.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
The Devils will probably pick first. Who will they take?? Do the Devils want Larson?
by Torch7 on Jan 6, 2011 7:59 AM EST via mobile reply actions
They could use him
Especially if they manage to free themselves of Bryce Salvador’s Contract.
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They might pick him BUT
The talent in their system is HEAVILY weighted toward defense. They have NO elite forwards in their system and NO potential franchise center. Also, Couturier has been at the head of most mocks I have seen. My money’s on Lou picking him.
Add their horrible scoring this year on top of that
I would bet they go forward. I’d be more concerned about the Oil taking him.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
BC, i have the privilege of seeing them regularly on TV, their D is DREADFUL… they have no one who can escape the zone with a solid out pass… sometimes andy greene looks like he’s that guy, but he’s been inconsistent…
While the owner may want more glitz and glam, and go with Couturier,
Larson is right up their alley for a # of reasons…
they know they need D help as much as O help
they have no prob drafting Euro over NA
he projects to provide offense anyway
you can trade down possibly to a few spots and pick-up a much needed pick around 35ish either this or next year (when they wont have a #1 pick) to let another team leapfrog them with a swap of say 1st overall for 3rd and 34th (and maybe another later pick)
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
disagree
They have defenders who SHOULD at least be good and they are LOADED to the gills with blue chip defensive prospects. They have absolutely NO top six forward prospects and there is no one—assuming Arnott is traded—on the roster or in the organization who can even remotely be considered a #1 center. Not saying they wouldn’t like to have Larsson, but they need Couturier more. Only way I see them drafting Larsson is if Lou and his guys are convinced that Larsson is head and shoulders a better talent than Couturier…and there has been no indication from other sources that he is.
I'm with you BC. Couturier makes perfect sense for the NJD and taking larsson would be a big mistake for them.
Volchenkov, Tallinder, Greene, are all solid top 4 d-men that they will have for a while. White is a stopgap, and a decent one at that. Add that to fact that they have 3 young d-me who look to be solid nhl d-men right now(corrente, fraser, taormina), and it makes zero sense for them to draft larsson. No puckmoving d-men? Greene IS a 35pts+ puckmoving d-man, Tallinder is 20pts puckmover when healthy, Corrente easily has the upside of a 20pts puckmover, and Taromina is a touted puckmoving/goalscoring d-man(and is on the verge of a 10goal+/20pts+ rookie season, looks like a solid blueline offensive producer to me). I just don’t see the weakness you say there is.
Arnott’s leaving after this season because they need his money to resign parise. And with arnott gone their 3 top 9 centers are now Zajac(solid top 6), 32yr old 3rd liner zubrus, and pelley(a 4th liner). Add that to the fact that they have no promising centers in the system to fill a top 6 role EVER and that is a huge problem. Unless the Devils think they can fix that problem through free agency or trade ASAP, then I think it goes without question they are drafting couturier.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
You've only scratched the surface
and not even mentioned some of their best prospects. Urbom,Merrill (whom Garth could and should have drafted), Gelinas, Burlon, and Eckford. Add them to the three prospects you have mentioned and they could probably field two teams with blue chip defensive talent.
You neglected to mention Josefson whom I like a lot. Actually wanted Garth to draft Big Victor and him in 2009. Cannot BELIEVE Lou got him at #20. He has been compared to Backstrom of the Caps, but he has yet to come close to fulfilling that promise. Part of the problem is that he was hurt early in the season and has been out. Also, he does not have the size of a traditional first line C.
Is it possible that Lou and his scouts are not very impressed with Couturier and decide to add another star quality defenseman to their system? Sure. Seems more likely to me, however, that they go with Couturier.
Is it possible that Lou and his scouts are not very impressed with Couturier and decide to add another star quality defenseman to their system? Sure. Seems more likely to me, however, that they go with Couturier.
i would cautiously agree, Couturier did nothing in the WJC to dissuade people from liking his game, and there seems to be a push to move from the D to the O in nj, i never thought Kovi would re-sign there, mind you, and from lou’s comments, it certainly seems like the owner has more input than lou likes…
i’m curious how much hype is yet to come with Couturier (or whomever steps up) for the #1 overall, because it’s a spot the Dev’s havent been in in a while and he can really restock the draft board knowing he’s light a few picks next year
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
let me qualify my statement to the max
Superficially it would seem from the outside looking in that Couturier and Larsson are comparable talents and that organizationally the Devs need Couturier more. But Lou might think Josefson will be as good as Backstrom in a year or two and that he doesn’t need a traditional top center that Couturier promises to be. He and his scouts may be far more impressed by Larsson as a talent and, as good and as deep as his D prospects are, Larsson would undoubtedly rise to the head of the class. So it is possible that he could pick Larsson. He could help on offense just as two way center Couturier could help on defense.
One problem with Larsson from Lou’s perspective: his defense. He is very NHL-ready from the offense side. He needs to work on his D and the tourney revealed that. The Devs have accomplished veteran forwards to break in Couturier, not so much a bonafide #1 like Chara or Streit to do the same for Larsson.
My money’s still on Couturier as their pick, but I guess we would both feel more assured if we got the lottery love in April and Garth could decide for himself without reference to Lou and his staff.
have you WATCHED them?
Volchenkov, Tallinder, Greene, are all solid top 4 d-men that they will have for a while
green is the only one worth anything, volchenkov and tallinder are CONSISTENTLY getting beat around the outside 1 on 1, and neither can move the puck very well…
i understand that the team has every reason to draft couturier AS WELL, but dismissing Larson because they have solid #3-4 D-men in the pipeline that may blossom into a #2 one day is just FN SILLY when LL may look at Larson as a Franchise type #1 D-man…
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
Some questions then:
1-Do you really believe that everyone on the devils is as bad as they are playing this season?(EX: Zajac-12goal/40pts center, Kovalchuk-20goal/40pts winger, etc)
I honestly think their is a big cause and effect. Volchenkov is still the leader on the team in hits and one of the best in the league at that, and would be the leader on the team in blocked shots if he didn’t miss 12gms(and is still one of the best in the league at that). Volchenkov is still one of the best shutdown d-men in the nhl, and calling worth nothing is beyond ignorant. Tallinder I haven’t been following as close, but I doubt he has fallen from a great shutdown top 4 d-man to a barely servicable/ok bottom 2 in 1 one offseason at his age with his style of play.
2-Drafting and hoping for d-men to blossom into something better then they are at the moment, isn’t that what all teams do?
3-What is your definition of andy greene? To me, 5goal/35-40pts+ ok #1 d-man, great #2 big-minute d-man. He finally got a chance to show his skills with paul martin hurt a lot of last year, and he shined with bright colors imo.
4-What is your definition/career outlook of taormina?
Clearly a kid with a TON of offensive potential, and with a little more strength and paired with the right d-man, a future #1. On the verge right now of a 10goal/20pts rookie season, on the worst offensive team in the nhl by far. His ahl rookie year, he ripped it up and had a 10goal/50pts season. This kid can easily become a future #1 d-man with a little more weight/strength. He’s looks to have the offensive ceiling of a 15goal/60pts d-man, so another one of these guys(ala larsson) isn’t close to needed by the devils.
If you really think the departure of overrated and now overpaid paul martin as the reason the devils need a #1 d-man, then I think you are looking at the situation all wrong. Greene more then fills the whole of martin gone, and taormina looks to be . Could the devils possibly use another 20pts+ puckmoving d-man? Arguably yes, but a true #1 d-man? They really don’t need one right now or for a while. Would it be nice? Sure. Would it be overkill with Greene and Taormina on the team, and create future salary problems and the need to dump at least one of them? Yes. No point in drafting a #1 d-man when Greene plays the role very well, and Taormina is touted by many to become the devils next rafalski once he’s peaked(and rightfully so imo). And all this isn’t even without me diving into the devils prospects that are a year or more away from the nhl. Add this to the fact that the devils have a clear huge center problem/weakness, and it looks stupid for them to draft anyone other then couturier. And what line was he playing on in the wjc? You say he didn’t show anything impressive, but it’s really hard to when your playing 3rd line minutes and overshadowed by 5 other guys that are older and more experienced then you.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
not convinced that Greene is a bonafide #1 AND
that, to my mind works AGAINST drafting Larsson. They don’t really have a true #1 to break him in as the Isles and the Bruins do. They do have veteran forwards to break Couturier in. The real questions are: How do Lou and his scouts see the two prospects and how do they see Josefson progressing over the next few years?
For what it’s worth, AV used to play with underrated Chris Phillips, and Tallinder with Tyler Myers. NJD needs puck movers, but drafting a defenseman like that won’t fix the problem right away. Forwards are the ones that make a big splash in RFA years (defensemen fully mature only in UFA).
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by red army line on Jan 9, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
not saying there isn't an argument for them drafting Larsson
just that Couturier seems a lot more likely to me.
Agreed.
Couturier is the perfect fit for them imo.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
ummmmm
Has any nation’s identity ever been so linked with a game as Canada’s is with hockey? It is hard to say.
Can 15 minutes at Geico™ really save you up to 15% on car insurance?
Is a bird in the hand really worth two in the bush?
etc.
etc
NTIPC
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Jan 6, 2011 8:04 AM EST reply actions
Does a former Drill Sargent make a terrible therapist?
Why don’t we truck on over to namby-pambyland and find you some self-confidence ya JACKWAGON?!
As far as sports linked to countries:
America=Baseball, Football
South Africa=Rugby
China=Table Tennis
India=Cricket
Ireland=Swinging from trees and drinking your ass under the table with warm Guiness (mmm) :)
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by IslesOfficial on Jan 6, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
Czechs=Beer-drinking and sorrows-wallowing.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
America = Basketball
Baseball has spread enough to where the Americans aren’t even really favored in international competition anymore – there are great teams in Central America and Japan usually has good squads. The rest of the world really doesn’t care much for gridiron football… except maybe Canada, and even they decided to jazz up the old game by losing a down and stretching the field, among other things.
Basketball is the closest American equivalent to Canada and hockey – we are still favored a lot, but the gap has closed, to the point that if the US puts together a poor team, they get thumped. Yet we still take it as a personal affront if Spain or Croatia or something gives us a tough game. I notice this even among people who aren’t particularly basketball fans, too.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
In many parts of the US, basketball simply isn't that important
especially once you get away from urban centers.
True
At least in my experience, there is definitely a parallel birthright thing going on (USA basketball : Canadian hockey), but people quickly move on. I always contend that the number of popular pro sports here keeps any single one from initiating existential crisis.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
And I'm quick to point out
That hockey existed before Canada did!
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
a precursor to hockey existed
Hockey as we know it was perfected by Canadians…with contributions from other countries over the past half century.
maybe
But Lord Stanley was British. So there. =D
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
BUT he was Governor General of Canada when he donated the Cup
and he did so because his sons were passionate devotees of the sport…which had been perfected by Canadians.
Geezz...
I KNOW, man! It was meant as a humorous aside. That’s why I put the big grin in there: =D
Yer just takin’ me a little bit too literally when I tweak Canadians.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Oh I know
But to me it’s a very simple game/activity. You can really play around with the rules, as even the NHL did pre-WWII.
I just chuckle when a winter country lays claim to a rec activity that is such an obvious use of the environment, it was even an afterthought in those Bruegel paintings in the 1500s. But I’m generally suspicious of all claims to birthrights!
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I forgot to mention...
Scotland=Golf
England/Italy=Soccer or shall we say true Football
Northeast United States=Lacrosse
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by IslesOfficial on Jan 6, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
More additions...
Japan=Martial Arts/Sumo Wrestling
Australia=Who cares! They have hot women and Foster’s is Australian for beer!
New Zealand=Sailing (America’s Cup) All Hail Black Magic!
Kenya=Training soon to be African-Americans how to outrun police dogs for 26.2 miles.
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by IslesOfficial on Jan 6, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
England and socc...er...football may be the closest comparison
but I am not sure that even their national identity is so consumed by the sport.
In all reality...
The Canadians do have Curling to fall back on. Even if it is a sport where men sweep ice to get a 50 lb stone into a 4 ft. circle.
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by IslesOfficial on Jan 6, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Question there is: Do the Scots ever challenge for the gold at the Winter Olympics in a sport they created?
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by IslesOfficial on Jan 6, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know
Even though curling was on non-stop during the last Olympics, and I must have watched hours of it trying to figure out the hockey schedule on my DVR, it just seemed like one big rock sliding, brooming blur, couldn’t even tell if men or women were playing half the time I was in such a curling daze.
Ireland:
Hurling/Gaelic Football.
"The '69 Mets will live on forever. But do you think anybody cares about Ron Swoboda's wife and kids? Not me! And I assume not Ron Swoboda" --Homer Simpson
Pakistan/India: field hockey and cricket.
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by red army line on Jan 9, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'm guessing Landeskog at this point
As long is play hasn’t suffered when he gets back from injury. 4 or 5 is likely at this point and I’m guessing the other 3 go first. There really wasn’t anyone new jumping up the charts from the tournament and we need wing help so Landeskog makes sense.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Tourneys such as this
i get the whole “canada = hockey” thing, and how you want your nation to win the tournament (world juniors, olympics, canada cup, etc), but it’s not really the best indicator.
when you have a tourney that is only a couple of games, anything can happen. it’s not like there is a season of games that weed out hot/cold streaks, then several round sof playoffs to determine a true champ. these kids had what, 5 games?
we’ve all seen what a hot player or two can do for an olympic team, and it’s the same thing. Anyone remember Ray LeBlanc’s stellar NHL career?
this is one of the reasons i can’t really ever get into any of these tourneys – they’re like a week-long all star game. nice to watch, but they aren’t the be-all and end-all . yeah it’s nice when a prospect has a good tourney, but i would never hold it against him if he had a bad one, especially if he had a good/great season(s).
by nullzero00 on Jan 6, 2011 8:46 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
A lot of people dont' get that though.
Its still exciting too. Yes, luck is an extremely large component of it, but its still played fair and square. But no it doesn’t mean that much.
by TMS on Jan 6, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm projecting the top 5 picks to look as follows...
Devils
Oilers
Toronto
NYI
Devils – I think they will most likely take a forward to help once a few of their aging veterans move on, retire, etc. My best guess would be Couturier or Nugent-Hopkins.
Oilers – Need defense. Will take Larsson if available.
Toronto – needs a center for Kessel. Will probably be crossing their ifngers that Couturier drops to 3rd and take him.
Isles – Assuming these people are resigned or not traded, current top 6 if all are healthy is Moulson, JT, Okposo and Bailey, Nielsen, Grabner. Nino will probably come up and play on the third line with Schremp and Comeau/Parenteau. As for defense, we have Streit, AMac, Hamonic, Jurcina, Eaton as our top defensemen. Hard to see where a top 5 pick could fit anywhere in our lineup. Honestly, we are getting full of 1st round draft picks to the point that we might leave this years’ pick in their junior league for 1-2 years for growth, maybe put them in the AHL for 1-2 years then bring them up when they’re 21/22 years old. This would be the proper upbringing in our system. Now that our prospect pool will be flooded we will be able to proper mature our players and have them reach their potential in a better fashion.
Down With Wang.
Toronto's pick now belongs to Boston,
so whatever passes Kessel will be receiving from any center that is drafted will be pretty long. Boston has a glut of centers so they may be looking D or wing.
As for the Islanders, I wouldn’t put too much stock on Eaton or Jurcina having any impact on drafting a defenseman that wouldn’t be ready for 2 seasons. Your last statement was the most probable, unless they draft an immediate impact player, the player should be developed slowly and properly.
Schadenfreude
Okay so maybe its just misery loves company, but I somehow don’t feel too bad for Canada. I turned it off after 3-0 and then went back to see if they were handing out medals and saw it was 3-3, but I still believed Canada would win, they always win. At least that seems to be the narrative. Then they mentioned after the Russians had won that the two teams had met seven times for gold and Russia had won 4 out of the 7. Canada is unique in that they are strong in every tournament, but they aren’t invincible either.
I think what may affect the American psyche when we play against Canada is that we actually deep down do beleive that it is their sport. Most of the hockey coverage we get has a Canadian slant so we really start to take it as fact. I liken it to England’s performance in any World Cup, pre-tournament they are the most well known team and the hype is that this will be their year based on all of these well known players, then the games are played and they never do anything, Canada has a much better track record of winning, but because we are so much more familair with the players we tend to over value them. Has there ever been any player that has played for the Leafs that didn’t appear to be in the midst of a HOF career based on media coverage?
“Has there ever been any player that has played for the Leafs that didn’t appear to be in the midst of a HOF career based on media coverage?”
Jeff Finger?
With his salary and the amount of coverage he received last year - yes HOF
Okay, I have to admit I’ve been Canada snarky the last few days. The Northern relatives sent down a few Team Canada shirts for Christmas and they arrived on Monday. I get home and both kids are wearing Taam Canada hockey shirts as Canada is about to faceoff against the US. I mean the timing had me thinking, “You’ve got to be shitting me, today I have to see my kids in Canada gear?!?!” Knowing full well that any attempt to remove anything with hockey on it from my 2 1/2 year old will lead to an absolute fit. Especially since he got to try out his own skates at the rink this past weekend. The US then loses and I have a bad karma cloud hanging over my head.
Get those kids some Isles gear pronto...
They obviously have some good apparel karma that should not be wasted.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
They both have the Islander gear, but it was in the wash from skating on Saturday.
Now I need to get back-up sweaters under glass just in case of emergencies like this.
Ha
Wow, your relatives are playing dirty.
I feel pretty bad for those Canadian players. Some of their fans and media puppetmasters, not so much.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
two points
1) don’t assume that we keep winning at this pace or even near it, I still think we get top 3 pik.
2) A great defense isn’t always the first concern, example Tor., they have a great defense and decent goal, but are near the bottom. Why, they don’t have offense and thus too much of their game is being played in their defensive end. Check the Goals for vs goals against. My point go for the best forward available [with size] Also in general it is easier to pick up Ds by trade or FA.
They have a high priced D, but I don’t know that it has played particularly well this year and the goaltending has been uneven. Giguere looked like his game was picking up, but then he was injured. THe puck is in their end a lot precisely because the defense isn’t moving it well to there weak forwards. OR more accurately centerless forwards. Schenn is over his sophomore slump, but Komisarek is still lost, Phanuef is a very good defensemen, but great is a reach due to his consistency issues as well. Kaberle has the will they get him to agree to move over his head and the rumor mill has Beauchimin on the move.
Landeskog, Nino, etc.
Not that I know these kids very well, but I’d guess Landeskog is the type of player Garth likes to go after normally. No idea, though, how he’d fit into a group of RW’s of Nino, Petrov and Okposo and how that at all will affect Garth’s choice.
Couturier wasn’t overly impressive, but well, you couldn’t expect him to be, either, I guess. Overall, I thought one of the two great Russians would have deserved the MVP award. And not sure however Schenn and Ellis were Canada’s best players. I thought Tyson Barrie was terrific and Ryan Johansen at least offensively their biggest force in the most crucial moments.
As for the Isles’ prospects in this tournament, it’s hard for me to say anything significant about anyone other than Nino. Cizikas certainly didn’t disappoint, but not sure he was as strong all around as advertised. But I generally do like his potential. De Haan’s been tough to assess as always for me, no idea what kind of potential he really has.
Nino however certainly had a disappointing tournament, but maybe a valueable experience nonetheless. It’s clear in the first place not too much should ever be made of the performance of a player in such a tournament on such a team. The Swiss were obviously overmatched considerably against Canada as well as against the other top-teams and it certainly is a tough job to lead your team on that basis. So, it’s not a big deal, but I still was kind of shocked just how uneffective he was this year and against Canada particularly. He was making a few plays thanks to his size and power, but other than that was chasing the puck all over the ice and indeed was very bad positionally in the own zone. Besides the fact that there is a severe lack in his overall game I think he most of all felt the pressure big time this year. From his interviews early in the season and again this week I’m pretty sure he’s thinking too much right now.
To make such experiences is obviously what this season is all about and he’ll hopefully benefit long-term. I know people like him for meeting every challenge he’s faced, but in my opinion this year is a whole other story for him in terms of challenges. Let’s remember that this is the first time ever he’s asked to confirm his achievements. While he couldn’t quite do it at the WJC, his 2nd season in the WHL seems to be going fairly well. Again, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s issues there with him, I’m just trying to put this tournament into perspective and to gather where he’s at right now.
The swiss games I saw he looked to be trying to do too much
Instead of making the pass he would try to take it through 2 opposing players. He looked capable just really pressing.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
I agree with you that Landeskog fits the garth draft style. Touted tough 2-way forward that has solid offensive upside(ala Okposo, Nino, and even Bailey)
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Johansen was very good
but I have to disagree. Schenn and Ellis were their best. And remember Schenn was playing hurt most of the series and still tied the Canadian record for points. Couturier, like Larsson, was good…just not dominant. As to Nino, didn’t really see him except in a few clips. You are not the first person to say that he wasn’t very good, so I have to assume that it was so.
Too early to say
While I’d love to see the team take any one of Couturier, Larsson, Nugent-Hopkins, and Landeskog, I don’t think they will be a bottom 4 team. With Okposo returning, I think we’ll end up in the 5-10 pick range, and will get a good, but not overly impressive pick.
anything's possible but...
for the reasons I have noted, I doubt it. We are likely going to be in the bottom five again. Just too much ground to make up against too many teams. I should add, though, that there likely will be some impressive talent going 5-10.
Bartschi
If the Isles do not get a top 4 pick I have a feeling they will make a move. I dont know much about Landeskog (havent researched him), but from reading other peoples post he sounds liek a hard nosed player with skill which is great, but if the Isles are out of the top 4 i think they will make a trade. For whatever reason i feel the Isles would target Bartschi. He plays with Nino and has more points than him right now. I’ve heard he’s a slick playmaking winger who doesnt shy from physical contact. Sounds like a big need of the Isles. Its still very early and I know hes projected in the middle of the 1st right now, but so was Nino last year and the Isles took him at 5. Whether we wind up with him or not I think he will be the target if the Isles fall out of the top 4. I also believe there was an article about him on the Islanders website. Pretty strange to randomly throw a report on a player just b/c hes on the same team as your best prospect.
His size is his biggest drawback
Players have made it happen dispite size but it does makes them more of a question mark. If the Islanders are out of the top 4 (very possible) then hopefully Landeskog is available. The injury might lower his rank. Really no need for a center unless it’s a ‘we really cannot pass’ opportunity. I don’t know if they trade down unless they have someone specific in mind that they think they can get lower; Seth Ambroz perhaps (Size on wing with a RH shot, he’s made a few top ten lists but still considered raw). I still like Dougie Hamilton but I don’t know if he is top ten. He’s a step below Larsson but is in the big & offensively capable D-Man mold (5-26-31 in 36 games).
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
DH may not be as far off Larsson as everyone thinks
Time will tell, but DH will likely also be a great top pair guy. I would be stunned if he does not go top ten…maybe even #5.
there are several guys later on to target
David Musil and Dougie Hamilton are two defenders. The Swede Victor Rask and the Finn Armia are two centers.
I like Musil and Dougie, but picking them in the top 5 is an overdraft. I'd be fine trading down for them though if our guys are off the board.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
How the other three are likely to pick
If Oil fans are peeking, they can comment on their team. My sense is that they are the inverse of the Devils. They need a top center and a #1 D badly but need the #1 D more whereas the Devils need both but likely need the top center more. Not sure whether Boston would want Larsson or Landeskog more.
@#$% Canada! I take pleasure in their misery, lol...Reecnt Canadean Media is bashing Wang
The Canadian media has been nothing but been down right nasty towards our Islanders…In fact, most recently, I was on Sternfannetworks, FERREL forum, in the NHL thread, where there is this arrogant Canuck fan from Vancouver who bashes the Isles all the time…He said that the Isles decided to go on a player retreat on the way up to Edmonton and the media up there are twisting it into Wang being cheap…They are saying that the reason they are doing the retreat is so they don’t have to pay for a jet plane and this way they are taking a bus…Who knows what the truth is but we all know that the Canadian media is just speculating and insulting th Isles org as usual
Here the article posted by that asshole on SFN
(cut from Mark Spector’s latest column)
Ownership has to learn how to win as well, and you simply cannot fool NHL players. You can’t operate a franchise the way Charles Wang operates the Islanders, then call for your players to go to the wall for you.
The Isles have the lowest payroll in the NHL, the worst facilities by a country mile, and after firing another coach this season brought up another rookie from the farm team in Jack Capuano. The team is scheduled to spend Tuesday in Banff, Alta., before their Thursday game in Edmonton, but those kinds of perks can’t obscure the fact that Wang has stopped trying as an owner.
It’s been 17 seasons since the Islanders won a playoff series, more than a decade since goalie Rick Dipietro was drafted first overall in 2000, and still the Isles are dealing away Dwayne Roloson for a prospect and James Wisniewski for draft picks.
It’s an hour to Banff, and from Banff, about 1.5 hours up to Edmonton, Wang’s saving a ton not chartering a plane; don’t kid yourself. You think they need a holiday right now? Would it not have been beneficial to be in the rink last night seeing Edmonton play Detroit instead??
The Isles are going down the toilet and without an uprising from the fans, will dissappear in short order.
In fairness
some NY based writers have been about as ignorant and unkind. And Charlie and Garth do kinda stink at media and public relations.
In fairness, is there anything actually wrong in there? The only good thing about Wang is he hasn’t moved the team… yet.
I'd say so: Devoid of context
It’s been 17 seasons since the Islanders won a playoff series, more than a decade since goalie Rick Dipietro was drafted first overall in 2000, and still the Isles are dealing away Dwayne Roloson for a prospect and James Wisniewski for draft picks.
It’s crap like this that undermines these columnist rants. Hey, I’ve got an idea, I’m going to take everything that looks superficially wrong about a club and throw it all together.
If this team wants to win a playoff series (as Spector points out they have not done in 17 years), then hanging on to expiring UFAs when chances at playoffs are gone is foolishness. A team building for the future needs to cash those in.
The cheap stuff — yeah, there’s signs of that but really?! Using two off days in between games to go on a retreat where the players (and curlers) clearly had fun is unequivocally an example of trying to save on a charter flight? And a 1-hour drive — does this guy know what L.I. traffic can be like?
Like I always say, I’m all for criticizing the franchise and owner for multiple mistakes over the years, but national columnists tend to bring nothing new to the occasion, over simplify things, and misinform their audience.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
the reason for that is that
Canadians have this attitude that hockey is their sport and Americans don’t really deserve to have hockey franchises. They would really like the NHL to move as many US franchises as possible to Canada.
Rick Mercer is kind of a folksy Canadian Jon Stewart. Here is his commentary prior to the lockout:
My reply is good thing the US supported 4 out of the original 6 or the NHL would have gone belly up a long time ago. Not much of a league with Toronto losing to Montreal every year. The Isles have always been hated by the Canadian media, how dare they stop the Canadiens from winning 5 in a row and how dare they keep the anointed one from his throne. I think it started back when the Leafs beat the Isles in 78 and 4 cups later the media still thinks the Leafs are the superior team.
US owners of hockey teams won't move to Canada because no money is to made by moving there
All the Canadian national TV money is pooled together so I doubt the 6 other clubs in Canada presently there now want to take less of that pool just for the sake of adding one or two teams. The Canadian government has even kicked in money to help out teams in the past but in todays world I doubt they want to add dollars to their budges just for the sake of having more sports teams in country when they have their own budget problems. Corporate sponsors in the cities mentioned are lacking. Edmonton and Calgary are having enough problems with dated arena’s and lack of corporate support. The only city it makes sense in is Toronto by adding a second team but you know that won’t happen. The NHL would be worse off if US teams started moving to Canada.
That's why we have the Avs
Quebec City essentially told the Nordiques to take a flying jump when they wanted public money. Off to Denver!
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Yes - that's the reason no other Canadian cities have been given franchises.
There aren’t any that could support one. They are just too small. They love hockey, sure, but they can’t generate the luxury box and tv money that they need. The Jets left Winnipeg because they were losing money there. The Nordiques left Quebec city because they were losing money there. Another team in Toronto would work but beyond that there just isn’t the population and corporate money to make it work.
by TMS on Jan 6, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Good question is raised tho
Do they really need a vacation right now"???
When first assessing, you have to think where do we finish?
I think we’d all be in tight agreement saying the Devils are terrible, and we need to be pretty bad to finish worse then them, ESPECIALLY considering we are now 4wins better then them halfway through the season. Wow.
Next we have to debate, will we finish better or worse then the Oilers, and the Leafs. All the other teams are going to need a dramatic pitfall combined with an amazing resurgence from us to finish better then them. Oilers are on a bad streak right now and the leafs recently lost giggy, whom I hear will be back sooner then later. When Giggy is back, the leafs will be better and likely pull themselves a bit ahead of the rest of us(unless we play miraculously). Edmonton could be competing with us for the #2 the rest of the season though, even though they are on a cold streak. And with they way Dubynk has been playing lately, I find it hard to believe he won’t be giving the starting spot over khabbi if they keep playing like they do, unless edmonton wants to lose? lol.
So let’s say:
1-Devils-Couturier-Near perfect fit for them given all on the board.
2-Isles/Edmonton-
3-Isles/Edmonton-
4-Leafs(really boston)-RNH
Now the other top 3 picks left(imo):
-Landeskog-hits everything, smart, I hear a solid 20-30goal scorer in the future, solid pk’er/2-way guy, and strong on the puck. And already a strong 6’ 200lbs. Pretty much a shorter power forward. Think built like Okposo, physical like or close to Martin, scoring threat close to Moulson(if not as much as), strong on the puck like pre-concussion okposo, and defensively similar to bailey/ko(nino for that matter). Likely nhl-ready.
-Larsson-Future #1 d-man. 6’2/3’’ 200lbs+, nhl-ready, Great speed, Great size, Great puckhandling, Great shot, Great passing, Great calmness, Great positioning, Great smarts. Some people say he’s better then/similar to Hedman and others say he’s better then/similar to Bourque. All I know is, he sounds like the safest pick in the draft and an unquestionable future #1 d-man, whether he be a Chara-like #1 d-man or a Streit-like #1 d-man or a Timonen-like #1 d-man. It’s a very safe bet he’ll be a capable #1 d-man.
Now I think who goes gets who is based on how both teams finish.
I think #2 gets Larsson and #3 gets Landeskog. Given everything, I think we finish 2nd and take larsson and Oilers trade down or take Landeskog at #3(maybe even RNH if they want more of a playmaker). In conclusion, I think it’s 50/50 we get larsson or landeskog, and if I had to choose, I say we land larsson.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
If I were Steve Tambellini
I would trade down my top pick, get Dougie Hamilton, use my own and the trade down picks to get other defensemen like Swedes Oscar Klefbom and Joonas Brodin. Then maybe see if I can convert Penner into a first rounder and use that to get Musil. There you have your defense of the future.
lol, that would work.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
I think its doable and would work
Hamilton has #1 D upside and the other three would fill out the top four nicely.
No one likes to lose but
the Isles took a step toward locking up #2 pole position tonight—which also gives them the best shot at stealing the #1 from NJ. Not only are the Oil and the Leafs now three and four points respectively ahead of the Isles, but the Oil’s win tonight means that they have the head to head tiebreaker if the two teams finish tied.
Of course, the other big plus is the tremendous play of Poulin. Thrown in cold and he slams the door on the Oil…giving his teammates a chance to win.
What a perfect NYI 2011 NHL Entry Draft might look like
Isles finish 29th in the standings, get some lottery love in April, and get the #1 overall pick. They pick Adam Larsson and then this guy slips to the late first. Garth then moves up his #32 pick with the #50 and grabs him:
THN ISS report on 2011 prospects at WJCs
Seems to share my assessment that Larsson and Couturier showed the skills that earned them consideration for the #1 pick, but were not dominant. Max Friberg (seen on the second video batting puck out of mid air into net) received special notice. He might be worth a subsequent pick.
MacKenzie will take a swing at the draft next week and I will post that when available.
Friberg only #15 of Swedish prospects
May go up after his WJC performance, but Garth might still be able to get him with a third or fourth round pick.
Talk is fun - that's why we're here.......
But until Charles Wang comes up with a strategy for the Islanders and communicates it to the hockey world, we are all guessing at the direction of this team. I’m not sure if even Snow knows where the future of the team is even short range. So the rebuild goes on because a low finish guarentees a high pik and that only leaves the selection of a particular prospect over another a point for discussion. If next season we see Wang/Snow go for a top 6 forward and a top 4 D, then we have some optimism that Wang wants to retain the team and in this area. However the sad thing is that this post could have been written one year ago, because so far nothing has really changed.
I think that you are half right
We do not know what CW’s plan is. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one and it certainly doesn’t mean that he is just sitting on the franchise and running it into the ground as has been suggested. The latter I simply do not believe at all. I see him as somebody who is passionately committed to this team….more than most owners…and possibly to a fault.
There was a hint on NHL Live that he is looking at Queens. I suspect that with 2015 just four years away, he is working on options. It would be smart for him to honestly admit that Lighthouse is done and to communicate a clear vision of his post-Lighthouse strategy. Looking at it as devil’s advocate, the final nail was put in the Lighthouse coffin just this past summer and the governor just announced that the Shinnecock option was not going to work only a few weeks ago. It isn’t wholly unreasonable to assume that CW was waiting for those things to play out before going on to the next step. He may not want to do that during the season and thus create an unwelcome distraction. I will say that he does need to have a new plan in place this coming off season. Ideally it would be there BEFORE free agency begins in July and thus serve as a selling point to attract whatever FAs Garth wants.
The rebuild goes on because it is the only proven way to build a winner. Garth is simply doing what should have been done years ago. And it takes time. It took Jimmy D five years to get a winning record in Detroit, 15 to get the Cup…and he had the full support of owners with tons of cash and no cap to limit on how they spent it…plus, as the HHOF recently recognized, he was and is a hockey management genius.
The truth is that this team is oh so close to having the core in place. If they can get Larsson and maybe either sign or trade for a veteran playmaker to complete the top line while grooming someone like Jurco or Friberg to take that veteran’s place in a few years…with the talent they already have in the system, they are there. The last few weeks have given you a taste of what this team can be. Adding a little more talent and a lot more experience is all that’s needed to do it consistently and bring back the glory to the Island.
Larsson
I do think that he would be the best for the Islanders. I believe that the Devils will certainly have poll position for the #1, we will be #2, the Oil #3, and Boston #4. If we do not get the lottery love and the Devs pick Larsson, Garth’s likely choice is Landeskog. Thing is, he is probably Chiarelli’s choice as well. A possible move would be to trade down, get Boston’s first rounder, draft Hamilton and then, if necessary, use our #32 and #50 to move up the Boston first to get the Swede Victor Rask or this guy:
Gare Joyce ESPN looks at Larsson, Couturier and the WJCs
This is a critical pre-tourney look at Larsson:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?name=nhl_draft&id=5962902
This is a more positive look at him as well as at Couturier from the WJCs:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?name=nhl_draft&id=5987951
And here is a look at some Europeans not at the WJCs:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog?name=nhl_draft&id=5994741
BTW, one HF thread claimed that Larsson played the semifinal against Russia with a groin injury. If true, it would make what was his best performance of the tourney even more impressive.
Starting to lean toward Landeskog
He is very much a fire and ice guy and this team needs more of that on the ice. Also, it would be great to have two big tough forwards lined up alongside of JT. Assuming the Isles are in the #2 spot and the Devils go with Couturier, it would be good if Ottawa slips into the #3. With Couturier and Landeskog off the board and with Ottawa’s depth in defensive prospects, they might be persuaded to trade down and if Garth can work a trade of another top ten pick for CDH, he might be able to trade it up to #3 and get Larsson as well. I will post another big piece on this subject after the trade deadline.
I think we can't go wrong with Landeskog or Larsson (couturier either if we want another center for that matter).
RNH I’m not sold on completely yet because of his size, and the fact that he is probably years away from an nhl job at around 160lbs right now. But he could possibly be the next st.louis(highly unlikely imo). I see RNH as exactly the next tim connolly, small 6’ center that is a good playmaker but injury prone because of his size (60gm/yr guy pretty much). Time will tell though. Either way, Landeskog is going to be a great prototypical goalscoring power forward, Larsson a #1 d-man, and Couturier a good 2-way center. No problems taking any of them, as we could use any(probably not couturier unless Bailey is at wing forever, RSH isn’t the future #3 center, and/or Nielsen is gone after his contract).
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
Could see RNH being another MSL...but he'd take a few years to develop
Suspect that either Landeskog or Larsson could be plugged right into the roster. As I say, there might be a way to get both of them if there is interest in CDH enough to net a top ten pick.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
