Roloson shutout; Capuano vs. Gordon through 20 games
by Dominik on Jan 5, 2011 6:30 AM EST
in This, That & What-Not
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PrintThis week's scriptwriting didn't end with Lawson getting to stop 28 shots in front of his family and friends. The guy whose departure gave Lawson an opening, Dwayne Roloson earned an OT shutout in his Lightning debut, giving the Lightning a slim division lead over the defeated Capitals, who were none too happy to hear Roloson had entered their division. I watched the game, it was a classic goalie duel, with Martin St. Louis providing a fantastic OT goal marked by one of those smart "little" plays to get back onside.
Caps fans react at Japers'; Bolts fans at Raw Charge. Funny that the Lightning also brought in Marc-Andre Bergeron, who helped end Roloson's Cup bid last time they were teammates.
(By the way, I neglected to front-page the FanShot(s) about Kevin Poulin's emergency recall yesterday -- Joel Martin replaces him at BPT -- because it came up so much in comments in the main threads, I assumed everyone knew. Thanks to everyone for sharing the news in the right margin, but please remember to check if someone has already posted it there. Breaking news links like that should go in FanShots -- and it helps to title them well and clearly (i.e., not just "look at this."). For a quick guide on when to use FanPosts or FanShots, check the LHH user guide. FanPosts are designed for well-flushed out theories or elaborate questions with backing evidence.)
| Coach | Record | GF* | GF/GP | GA* | GA/GP | Sh/GP | ShA/GP | PP% | PK% |
| Gordon | 4-10-3 | 37 | 2.18 | 56 | 3.29 | 28.1 | 28.9 | 19.5 | 83.1 |
| Capuano | 8-9-3 | 49 | 2.45 | 61 | 3.05 | 27.75 | 34.75 | 14.9 | 80.9 |
Speaking of FanPosts, we've had plenty of theories shared around here about differences between the team under Scott Gordon vs. Jack Capuano. I'm not subscribing to any with conviction at this stage, but it is time to look at the numbers again.
* Does not include "goals" credited in the standings for shootout wins/losses
Obviously the Isles are winning more, scoring more, and giving up less under Capuano, though different health rates, goalie performances and luck are always the hidden variables in any short-term comparison like this.
Of some concern is the amount by which they're being outshot under Capuano. Perhaps some of that is score effects from having more games where they held the lead (and thus, their opponent had a higher incentive to put shots on). But a seven-shot gap between them and their opponents per game is a pretty big difference, so it bears watching.
By my reckoning, each coach had two ugly blowouts -- Philadelphia and Carolina for Gordon, Nashville and the Rangers for Capuano.
Another thing you'll notice is the special team units were both clicking at a higher rate under Gordon. Again, like all of this it's blurred by small samples (and Gordon's sample this season will never be more than 17 games). So that, too, could be misleading: The Isles didn't score a PP goal in Gordon's final three games, and that drought continued for Capuano's first nine games, combining for an almost unheard of 12-game drought with the extra man. They've been much better in this 7-1-1 run, putting up nine of the 10 PP goals that have been scored under Capuano.
Also, for context, those special team percentages are based on these raw figures:
| Coach | PP Op | PPG | PP% | PK Op | PK GA | PK% |
| Gordon | 82 | 16 | 19.5% | 71 | 12 | 83.1% |
| Capuano | 67 | 10 | 14.9% | 84 | 16 | 80.9% |
Is Capuano getting them to do things Gordon did not? Or is it just as much a factor of health and luck? I submit we don't know either way for sure. Maybe the most important thing is that the players are feeling like things are working better right now (and their record gives them reason to believe).
But on that note, one more tidbit for thought: By my count, the Islanders shooting percentage under Gordon in his 17 games was 7.7% (almost as low as you'll see in this league, aside from New Jersey's historically insane 5.7% right now), while under Capuano it's been 8.8%, which is about in the middle of the league. The improvement has been nice, but would you really credit to the coach? Or, conversely, would you think Gordon was to blame for that 7.7% figure? Last season Gordon's Islanders shot a more reasonable 8.6%.
* * *
We'll know more about DiPietro's status over the next few days, but the Islanders have back-to-backs on the road in Colorado and Chicago this weekend, so if DP isn't ready to go, I'd have to expect we'd see Kevin Poulin's NHL debut soon.
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didn't hear the Bolts brought in Marc-Andre
seems like he is always getting interest toward the middle of the year to help some team on the PP
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
MAB had offseason surgery
So this time around he waited to sign until he was healthy and had some options, apparently.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I was wondering what Caps record was
the PP and PK have been better of late, so those numbers should start to look better
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
The Difference Maker
Andy Mac (and Jurcina to a lesser extent) Isles are 11-8-3 when he plays and 11-5-3 when Jurcina plays.
On the flip side, the Isles are 6-11-3 when Bruno plays and 5-15-3 when Hillen plays. Also the Islanders didn’t win a single game with Hillen playing till Cap took over.
It doesn’t bode well for Hillen and Bruno, even if you thought they might be kept around as Depth players for next season.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
not with wishart needing time to show if he’s worth a QO in the offseason
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
Even if Wishart doesn’t play in the NHL this year (which is near impossible considering he’s got to be the first callup guy and the Isles injuries) I can’t see them not qualifying him and keeping him for at least one more season. When your rebuilding you don’t trade for a youngster and let him walk after half a season.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I think there's enough of the season left
for Hillen to shake off whatever has had him off his game, so long as he keeps getting playing time. As much as I liked what I saw of Reese last season, at this point I’d rather see Jack and Bruno get the TOI.
After all, we haven’t seen any of Gervais’ thrice-a-season “Holy crap – Bruno!” performances yet!
Was Mottau signed for one season or two? Can’t say I necessarily miss him in games at all.
Injecting some opinion
Jack looked a lot better in the Calgary game. I think the birth of his son and not having to worry about leaving his wife at home with child was getting to him. He was skating a lot harder and generally making smarter plays. We’ll see if that’s the case this weekend. However, I think the worst is over for Jack in terms of his sub-standard (his standard) play.
From the Penalty Box to the Blog Box! Check it out at Isles Official's Outlook!
by IslesOfficial on Jan 5, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
I've noticed he's shown flashes of pre-slapper to the face Jack lately.
Hopefully the second half he can get back to where he was. He’s had a great skate through the D last game (or maybe the game before…). I had forgotten how good a skater he could be.
For the LHH Glossary:
Brunesque: The ability of a player to occasionally play so far above their normal level that you will always champion them in the hopes that one day they can perform like that consistently.
See also: Kvashian
by ilopan on Jan 5, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Nice addition, rec'd
So – if a player was Brunesque, would you say that his play in that game was a cause for Comeaution?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
by mikb on Jan 5, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Or
Isbisted – being fooled by a big body and a bit of a scoring touch, hoping for more (see also Kvashian)
Milburied – great players who didn’t become great until they got away from Mikey (a few too many to list)
by NSOsFan on Jan 5, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Ha, "Isbisted"
Adam Creighton approves.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Trust me, I’m the last person to cheer for Reese to be on the ice.
I just think the Isles don’t have the depth to get to the point of having Bruno/Reese/Hillen all in the lineup at the same time. It’s just not going to work. One of the three is fine, but once you get beyond that it’s shaky.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I wish they’d put Wishart on a flight, or even give Kohn/Katic a try
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
hell yeah. Ship reese back neow!
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
Depth...
Andy Mac has never faultered. Jurcina, on the other hand, didn’t show much under Gordon. As noted below, I though that Milan was brought in because Gordon thought he would perform better under Scott Gordon Hockey. It looks like Jack has him playing more conservatively, and using his body… which was never a highlight with ANY defneseman (or forward) under Gordon.
Bruno… better. I think the last good stretch of games I rememebr from Bruno was during the Noaln playoff run. Now he’s played well… good enough not to be asking, “Why the hell is he not in the kitchen where he belongs”
Hillen… also… as I said yesterday, maybe it’s the baby, but he is starting to show flashes again. I don’t think everybody stays, especially Milan because Wishart should fill his role… but the more quality vetaran depth the better. Snow has some decisions, and players may also have career decisions… you might see some of these guys taking two-ways. One of the biggest questions is whether or not Snow gambles on Marty.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
you know where this is going...
There are many factors in why the islanders are back on track, but few of them hold water except for the coaching change. Something that doesn’t show up in any statistical analysis, but is present in all is ATTITUDE.
Just some points that I try to feel need to be looked at… or… another hat full of BS:
1. Gordon started the season with us believing that they were a cup playoff contender. He did it without a full camp, but he had additional veterans to help him start the season without many X’s and O’s. There were a few injuries that took the team down a peg, but as soon as Gordon had some time to influence the new guys… 10+ game losing streak.
2. RDP… He was pretty shakey at the beginning of the season. He never really had two good starts in a row for Gordon, and that may have been more on Snow, than Gordon. I still can’t reconcile in my head why Lawson didn’t start the season as Roloson’s backup, RDP in BPT and either Koskinen or Poulin in the ECHL. If the Islanders were worried about losing him to re-entry waivers they are both dillusional and obsessively fixated on continuing an abusive relationship. It’s like a battered spouse worrying that her husband is going to get arrested for beating somebody else. He has played better since (I doubt because of) the change.. but he laid a couple of stinkers on Cappy as well. Maybe it’s just that Jack finally told him to stay in the net or be prepared to change his address to someplace where they charter transportation by the axle.
3. Gordon’s team was trending DOWNWARD… Cappy took over a team mired in a 10 game losing streak… and had to definitely change a few things… like attitude. It also took him some time to put the current lines together…which all seem to be working. So if you take the last 10 games of each coach, where they’ve had significantly more influence than their first 10… you might find a HUGE disparity in the numbers.
4. Attitude. I’ve said this before, but I have to make it part of this because I really think it’s important. In 2.2 seasons Gordon’s team was beaten like a red-headed stepchild. It grew worse in year two when JT took a nightly spanking at the hands of the every guy in the leauge with an elbow. It took two games for Cappy to find a way to get Gillies on the ice immediately after a questionable hit on JT. I’m not saying that the whole league stopped, gaslped and collectively said, “Shit, we have to stop taking advantage of Tavares and the Islanders… or Trevor the Terrible will beat us to a bloody pulp”. What I’m saying is that guys like JT and Frans now know that their coach is paying attention… and he’ll send out big brother when little brother can’t get his job done. Again… not that this is the ONLY reason, but JT and Frans have been fantastic over the past 10 games… IMHO it’s definitely a factor.
5. Josh Bailey.. and this is pure speculation… This poor kid came up from juniors too small, unprepared and completely invested in making this team… and making it better. He came into a world that was new, and then had to re-learn how to play hockey (If this is untrue, then why all teh BS about how SG was so inovative). He showed some signs of talent, but more than that he showed signs of being overmatched… and mostly LOST…. he also took the nightly welcome to the NHL beating. He looked great this year, and Gordon had the (God I hate this now more than anything else he mumbled in 2+ years) gall to say that it appeared they had done everything right with Josh. Well.. soon after the magic dust of simplifying things for the new guys wore off… amazingly Josh disappeared. Yeah… great job Scott. Enter Capuano, and the ticking clock. They finally recognized that the team needed to simplify things to grow, and Josh could use some confidence. They sent him down for a few weeks to absolutely dominate the AHL, and when he came back he came back to team where he could play a simple role, with guys that were more relaxed… and he has looked like a first round draft pick. THIS, more than anything, makes me want to see the RETURN of KYLE OKPOSO… I felt that Kyle may have been a little more prepared for the NHL than Josh… but he too, was getting bogged down by having to acclimate into two levels of nuance, the NHL AND Scott Gordon Hockey. It’ll be fun to see if Kyle goes to the net more when he doesn’t have to worry about where he’s supposed to be on the forecheck… and if he is supposed to rotate back to the defense because Mike Mottau feels he should be in the slot.
6. Travis Hamonic… I’m not going to say that travis is the reason, but he’s a factor. A bigger reason/factor is Milan Jurcina…. who was present for both coaches… and brought in (supposedly) because he worked well with Scott in Providence… well he SUCKED while Gordon was here… and now it looks like he’s playing the best hockey of this career.
7. I’m enjoying hockey again. Winning is fun to watch.
If cappy goes on to have a reasonable second half people will say he had a healthier team, and guys were maturing under his watch and others were just coming back from injuries… They just took the leading defenseman scorer and the best goaltender away from him… that should be added to whatever BS is heaped onto why he succeeded… If he fails… then people will just say they both were out of their depth with a talentless team… that’s too bad. Scott Gordon just wasn’t the right person for this team… and I really give Snow a lot of credit for recognizing it in light of the fact that his fan base was willing to continue operating n the darkness of promise. Cappy may not be the long term solution, but I think he is better suited to get them through this season and next. If he doesn’t have them deep in teh playoff hunt next year, then they need to start the search for a high dollar, top notch coach… and they’ll get a better response than the last time because the team is chock full of talent, and it’s only getting better.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
by JPinVA on Jan 5, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Sure you can...
my cardiologist does it every six months…. and I’ve got the pictures to prove it.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to, but if you’re talking about the heart that JT and Josh have shown through their rookie and sophomore campaigns… they have been terrific.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
proof you CAN measure heart
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
by bob l on Jan 5, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope that's not the picture *you* were referring to, JP!
2011 is our year! Now if only seasons didn't span over two years.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jan 5, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
RDP in BPT and either Koskinen or Poulin in the ECHL
didnt the isles cut off their ties to the ECHL? under the ‘Affiliates’ tab on their site, it only shows BPort now
4. Attitude.
i would morph this in with the coaching change… the overall air was different about 4-5 games after Cap took over, pregames and postgames, he wasn’t the robot of emotionless X’s and O’s that gordon was (for God’s sake the man smiles and jokes)and i think the players took to it,
they started to seem like a looser bunch instead of a loser bunch
Hamonic
cannot be ignored, 70-80% of his outlet passes alone have led to the team being able to establish offensive zone time, and that right there is more valuable than his solid play in his own zone
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
by bob l on Jan 5, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hamonic +1
bob, you got this right. His outlet passes are right on the money, very reminisent of Dennis Potvin. Im NOT saying Travis will be the next Potvin but, his passing skills are right up there!
by Russel Ginart on Jan 5, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Isles signed an agreement with Kalamazoo Wings of the ECHL
http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534908&navid=DL|NYI|home
hey there buddy
1. Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean like the new guys came in, played their “own hockey”, performed well and the team was winning – until Gordon influenced them, hurt their game and the team started losing?
2. Have nothing to add regarding DP, but a few numbers might be interesting. The save percentage this season under Gordon was 88.60% – it’s been 91.22% under Capuano. I know there’s people out there who’d attribute this to the more conservative style they’ve played since the coaching chance, etc. I’d never buy that – Gordon’s teams had had healthy save percentages for two years, even in year one (despite questionable goaltending). Add the shooting percentages and PDO under Gordon is at 96.35% opposed to 100.05% under Capuano. Again, Gordon had had healthy numbers here before.
3. There’d be no point in taking Gordon’s last 10 games to evaluate anything. Rather I think we should always keep in mind how/what he’d done the previous two years when assessing his style and quality as a coach. Anyway, you have a point here in terms of Capuano, making adjustments took some time, etc., no doubt about that. But then again, from outside as well as from the players I heard a lot how Gordon’s coaching held them back and the change was a relief for everyone. And I wonder how they didn’t show much of a reaction in the first 10 games then. In fact, it took Bailey a few weeks in Bridgeport or Comeau some time with Schremp to find out of the hole. Basically, I’m always ready to point out mistakes Gordon made and he did make too many, such as the comments about Bailey you mention or the fact that he paired Comeau with JT way too often. That stuff is at the bottom of the crisis they had, but I can’t see how this has anything to do with Gordon’s systems or personality, which people seem to love harping on.
6. It’s plain wrong Jurcina sucked while Gordon was here. He played pretty effective hockey from the beginning, it was just that everyone had him down as #7 prior to the season, was frustrated because poor Jack Hillen was scratched by the bad coach and focused on Wiz, Mottau and Eaton. True that Jurcina’s role has never been bigger than over the last few games, but he did in fact play the same hockey early on in a lesser role.
by BenHasna on Jan 5, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Consistency
Any coach that can come in and get consistency out of a bunch of young players is going to look like a genius. Jurcina and Comeau are just examples of guys that can get coaches killed, because they are so inconsistent that at some point you think it must be the coach. Sometimes a guy is on a hot streak and that will make any coach look like a genius. Look at Vigneault he won the Jack Adams a couple of season ago by just pencilling in Luongo every night.
How much do you need to keep players together in order to build chemistry and how much do you need to juggle the lines because a given pairing isn’t working even though in paper they should? Comeua and Tavares looked good sometimes, so did Bailey and Comeau to start the season, do you keep going back to the well or do you give up?
What I try to look at is a progression from year to year. Does the team look better, are they getting it, are they still doing all the bad things that got them in trouble the previous season, are the players going to the right spot where the puck is or are they always chasing it like a cat and ball of yarn? If the trend is positive then it isn’t the coach, I don’t expect big leaps from year to year either because they are usually artificial.
Thanks for adding save% in there
I’d looked that up but forgot to insert it in the post.
I thought about bringing up figures from Gordon’s previous two years for more perspective to show just how bizarre this year was, but then the roster gets even more different than it is within this season’s health winds, etc., and oh hockey and its many shifting variables…
Anyway, I of course knew and even invited more coach comparisons, but my main point was to capture a moment of time 20 games in. When this hot run ends, things cool off, and there are some frustrating losses, it will be interesting to see what “the norm” under Capuano looks like, and how people feel about it.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
The only numbers I need...
Year 1… first overall pick… the worst team in the league… whatever he “built” they threw away anyway.
Year 2… fifth overall pick…. no real strides made…. If you were to say at the end of year two that this team was a year away from the playoffs you’d have been laughed off this website….still no real number one line… the defense looked like a nightly 3rd grade fire drill… no… that would be an insult to third graders.
Year 3… They go out and really improve the defense… the team looks good for three weeks… and then the season is fucked within 6 weeks… He’s doing a bang up job… let’s resign him for 10 years so him and Dipietro can retire together to be first ballot members of the hall of obscurity.
Week 6 of new regime… The team is playing the best hockey it has in 4 years. They HAVE LEADS… and… THEY HOLD THEM. the defense gives up a few odd man rushes, but not double digits like the go-go, and they get outshot from the perimeter… but they are making htings happen by transitioning hte puck through the nuetral zone and showing real net presence.
Come on really… do you want to blame the same players who have jelled in 6 weeks under Capuano for the disasterous 180 game reaing of Mumbles Malone…
If they ever win a cup you’ll say it was because of the work that Scott Gordon did… I’ll say it was in spite of what he did. Now we can refrain from debating this subject for 5 years minimum.
And Jurcina looked like one of those tipping birds people keep on their desk as a conversation piece for the first 5 weeks of the season… WHEN HE PLAYED… now he’s playing 24+ minutes… hitting people… making good passes and generally looking like he figured out where he is and where he is supposed to be.
Scott Gordon was probably a very good coach… but he sucked for this team at this time. I guess you think that if they gave him until the midpoint (which hasn’t come yet), he’d be on this little hot streak as well… I’m just glad we didn’t have to find out.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
2) RDP to the Bridge
Snow could not send Ricky to the Bridge because he needed his salary on the NHL roster to get to the Cap Floor. If he sent Ricky he would have to spend more on the NHL roster, which of course he cannot do because of his internal budget restrictions. This is why we were force fed Rusty Ricky instead of letting him shake it off in the AHL.
Are you sure?
The rules are different for the salary floor than they are for the salary ceiling. I think for the floor, if you’re paying a player, it counts, no matter what. That’s why Yashin and Witt’s salaries count toward the floor but not the ceiling. I’m not not totally sure but I think that’s how it works.
Yes
Look at the Devils as an example. They sent Brian Rolston down to the A to create some breathing room from the Cap Ceiling. Players in the A do not count against the cap. But the sword cuts both ways. When you are trying to maintain the floor anyone down in the A does not count against the cap. Think about it. What other logical reason is there for Snow keeping RDP on the Isles roster early in the season when he had both Roli and Lawson to play on the big club? He needed Ricky’s contract to get to the floor.
Regarding Yashin and Witt, they were buyouts of NHL contracts… so they count against the cap.
Its only injuries that count for the floor but not the cap
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Rolston never went to the A, they waived him and put him on reentry waivers, but he never played a game in the ahl this year.
And that wouldn’t work for the devils anyway either, given Rolston is a 35 contract: so it would still count against the cap if Rolston’s in the ahl. Clause says, if in the ahl, a 35 contract still counts against the cap for the same amount of money it would if the player is on the nhl team -$100k of salary. The only way the devils cutdown rolston’s salary is by buying him out or having another team pick him up through re-entry waivers(or trading him), and even then I believe they take half his cap hit for the rest of the contract.
Not sure about how the floor works though with contracts, obviously long-term injured reserve is a stalegate(sp?), because it doesn’t count against the team at the moment(unless the player isn’t put on? or if the team wants?, either way, streit’s hit counts right now), but once the player comes off, the cap hit comes back. But I believe you’re right, if DP is sent down to the ahl/echl for anything but an injury rehab stint, we don’t have his cap hit.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
The Devil, he advocates
1…He did it without a full camp, but he had additional veterans to help him start the season without many X’s and O’s.
I don’t know, he did have a full camp, just not a full exhibition game slate. Maybe you need games to drill home X’s and O’s, but me thinks all that practice time provided plenty of X and O time. In any case, I don’t buy that theory because any of those early games — even Colorado — could have gone the other way, while several of the games in the 10+ losing streak could have bounced differently. The 10-game streak may have provided the opportunity to fix a wrong, but I don’t think it’s a fair reflection of that wrong.
On 4, I can buy into attitude/confidence/feeble mental state of youth being a factor — hell, that’s why I think the coach was removed when he was, as they were shattered by their struggles, which nonetheless continued for another 10 games save for one win over the league’s worst team. However — and we’ve been here before — I don’t think it has anything to do with Gordon’s use of an enforcer. From Day 1, Gordon tried the enforcers handed to him; they were bad players, just awful, all now toiling on the brink between ECHL and AHL again.
Then Gillies came in late last season. Gillies, who is quite limited, but has been a pro long enough to see how to not be as awful as his predecessors. Gordon used him. He even used him for 12 games this year (which is half Gillies’ season total). People like Cappy — hey, he yells once or twice on the bench! — and maybe his demeanor helps. I just don’t see conclusive evidence of this beaten-down syndrome, if it exists, tying back to the coach. if anything, if the Isles have suddenly had their gonads drop and now they stand up for each other more, you could argue it started with Gillies’ introduction (even though he took dumb penalties early in his tenure) and continued with the addition of Konopka, who is both crazy and decent enough to see more than 4-minute TOI.
For me, the best argument or credit to Capuano is he’s trying to win games in the best-chance way based on the personnel he has, whereas Gordon was trying to instill a style that he hoped the core players would eventually grow into. That’s just more hooey from me, but I do suspect there is a difference between a guy who thinks he’s enacting a long-term plan that will be fulfilled by players he doesn’t yet have (but with him safely at the helm), and a guy who knows if he’s ever going to coach in the NHL he needs to scratch out wins any way he can right quick.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
by Dominik on Jan 5, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Did Al Arbour coach a system or coach his players?
Now that’s an unfair test for any coach, but I always worry when a system is more important than the personnel playing it. It may just be the way the message was delivered, but Gordon always seemed so much more about the system than maximizing the abilities of the players on the roster. Capuano, I still won’t judge because it is too soon, I’ve seen a lot of positives so far, but those are just contrasts in style and I need to evaluate his flaws for a while.
The Devils are a team that is often mentioned as playing a “system” as well as Detroit, but they have an organizational structure that brings in personnel geared towards that system. In the Devils case, when they went outside looking for a piece, it didn’t fit and broke everything. Detroit changes coaches, not cultures, but the system it employs is always filled with players that are best suited for that system. You can’t just impose a system on a skill set that doesn’t match.
system
but Gordon always seemed so much more about the system than maximizing the abilities of the players on the roster.
Not true in my opinion – I really think it is the way the message was delivered, but nothing in fact.
It’s quite a stretch in the first place, as Gordon was known for preparing guys to play in the NHL – and certainly wasn’t named assistant coach for Team USA because all he cares is systems. With the Islanders, he certainly bought into the rebuild and knew it was much more about player development and stuff than his systems and winning games.
And in interviews for example (as well as in coaching indeed I guess) a huge part was always the topic around what gives the players success and what doesn’t. But not at all systemwise, but in terms of very basic individual things. He often pointed out how this guy needed to shoot the puck more or that guy needed to go to the net more often (Comeau, Bailey are examples). Or he often showed appreciation for guys keeping it simple and doing their fundamental job (Hunter, Sim, Thompson). I really think people have developed a bad feel for what Gordon’s systems and his coaching in general are all about.
I really think people have developed a bad feel for what Gordon’s systems and his coaching in general are all about.
I agree with that — the shorthand and misused references to “overspeed” show it all the time. But I’m a little in the middle on this overall issue (big surprise!). I think people misunderstand and/or selectively remember a lot about Gordon, forgetting when he helped individual youths and praised veterans who are now seen more as Cappy players.
But I also think there was something about … well, just something about Gordon, whether it was making things too complicated or being stubborn in some instances (e.g., pushing D-men forward who have no business pushing forward; insisting KO on the PP point had legs when, to my eyes at least, it diminished both the position KO adopted and the one he vacated). The comments from the players about simplifying things under Cap might betray that; or, alternatively, that might be the natural result of a new coach starting with a fundamental, easy setup for the transition and then building from there. Regardless, I don’t think it’s cut and dried.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I said it may be perception with Gordon as much as anything about him being a “systems” guy. Being named to Team USA doesn’t really tell me much about the ability to develop talent, it tells me that his coaching style and birth ceritficate matched those of Team USA. We don’t know what happened with the vetereans in the locker room, but from what has leaked there was friction, which shows a certain rigidity if true. Saying a guy needs to shoot more isn’t coaching, it is putting them in a position to get the shot off and knowing how to motivate them to actually do it.
Now he may also be an excellent coach at developing players at the AHL level, but is he more like a college coach versus an NFL coach? I didn’t see his work in the AHL so I won’t judge him personally, but sometimes players are more eager to follow direction in hopes of making the NHL than when they are actually there. This may be the players fault, but it is still the coaches job to maximize his potential. You also see at the college level systems that work and players that thrive in a system that takes advantage of skill gaps between playersthat just don’t exist at the NHL level (see J. Sim AHL goal scorer).
My stance hasn’t changed, I thought he should have had an additional year on his contract (not necessarily keep him) since Snow kept saying he was going to be here long term, but didn’t have the $$$ to back that statement up. I also didn’t see anything that lead me to believe this team was overachieving under his guidance either. I’m not yet an advocate of Capuano, because I still think we’re in the bounce period where every message is new and everyone is still trying to make a good impression.
PS split squad
That was just a terrible way to have to hold a camp and that is SnoWangs fault not Gordo’s. Build chemistry with two teams? Hillen being relegated early to the cast-off squad and never recovering.
Moulson
Wasn’t he on the cast offs squad? He hasn’t had any trouble this season.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yeah, I don’t think anyone’s blaming Gordon for the split squad stuff. I don’t personally mind them — several teams do them, and it’s a way to get all of the guys in camp into games — but I do mind having them so LATE in camp. That was the problem. Use split-squad early, then make cuts; don’t use it late as a way to get your minimum number of games in.
Having to sign NHL veteran tryouts just to meet the vet minimum for those games was a circus.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Moulson was full of confidence after 30-goal season and Hillen was a shell. Again each player needs to be coached differently. Hillen was on the "castoff "squad which surprised many of us by his poor camp, fell into the doghouse and wan’t working in game with the coach that was going to ultimately decide his fate. I’m not blaming Gordon for the split squad at all, but it was a terrible mistake by the organization to have them when other teams were down to their final cuts. I think it made Gordon’s job that much harder and I was surprised they picked up so many points out of the gate.
With all I've said...
… since the second game of Camp Capuano this pretty much sums it up.
For me, the best argument or credit to Capuano is he’s trying to win games in the best-chance way based on the personnel he has, whereas Gordon was trying to instill a style that he hoped the core players would eventually grow into. That’s just more hooey from me, but I do suspect there is a difference between a guy who thinks he’s enacting a long-term plan that will be fulfilled by players he doesn’t yet have (but with him safely at the helm), and a guy who knows if he’s ever going to coach in the NHL he needs to scratch out wins any way he can right quick.
I never said Cappy was a better coach, just that he is better for this team right now. Jeez… that’s why I ran through 5 years of draft picks… free agent signings and the current lineup. this team is a scrap heap, and Scott Gordon needs to go to a high dollar building supply store for materials… it just is not going to happen. I think Cappy can make this thing work the best it can… Scott Gordon was trying to get it to make his vision work… and that just never got any better. And he would
…“well some of these these guys just don’t get it”, “some guys get it when I put it on the board, some people need to run drills, some guys are still working things out”…. It’s hockey… they aren’t re-designing MoMA…
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
Tidying up the scrap heap
Heh, and I don’t know that Cap’s not a better coach (double-negative alert). He might be both better for this team and better overall. Their AHL results differ, but there again…rosters.
I’m just trying to sort out what’s cause and what’s circumstance. This has been the craziest year for trying to do that, considering the very brief feel-good start, the insane 10 games (and Cap’s 6-game losing streak after his first win) followed by this.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
hmm
For me, the best argument or credit to Capuano is he’s trying to win games in the best-chance way based on the personnel he has, whereas Gordon was trying to instill a style that he hoped the core players would eventually grow into.
I know what you mean, but I haven’t made up my mind on this. It’s certainly possible, but I just don’t know. At this point, my feel is that this won’t hold true when all is said and done, though I definitely need to see more here and just would like to give you an idea of where I’m at right now.
Every time you try to establish a streak you’ll need a few things going your way, whether you’re coached by Gordon, Capuano or Babcock and whether you’re the Islanders or the Red Wings, but I feel like the current streak is more heavily “luck-inflated” indeed than many I’ve seen before.
I know people don’t like the term luck and maybe it is the wrong one in this case indeed, but there have been a lot of totally unsustainable things involved in the current streak in my opinion. Even unsustainable could be the wrong term because I’m not actually trying to say they won’t be able to keep this streak alive for too long (that’s natural anyway), but just point to all those things really having heavily gone their way lately.
First of all, some of the opposition has clearly not respected them enough. And if so has just naturally not had the game against the Isles down as the most critical one of the month, hence all the backup goalies the Isles have seen lately. Then there’s certainly been some luck involved in the own zone. If you look at all the scrambles in front of the goalies or the posts the opposition’s hit there’s no way the more conservative style has led to diminished quality of scoring chances, no that anything like that has even been observed anyway. Fittingly, Perry’s weird game and the big chance he missed at 0-0 against them is at the bottom of this streak.
Or their own scoring has been a little suspect, too. They scored three times off the faceoff against Detroit (plus on a 4-on-3 OT PP) and they scored twice on the PP against the Flames (pluy empty net). Or they scored only once more than 2 EV goals in a game during this streak – against the Devils (3), when they had 14 shots in the whole game…
Now, if you were actually able to limit scoring chances against or if you had huge special teams or the strategy was to draw as many penalties as possible or get as many offensive zone faceoffs as possible, then I might see how one could argue well there’s some luck involved perhaps, but we’re making sure it turns our way by doing the right things. But in this case I struggle to see that. Their current strategy has really nothing to do whatsoever with getting PP opportunitites or offensive zone draws. And, though that is a whole other debate and I know some of them have contributed all around, I doubt such a conservative approach can ever be the right way to go with this group consisting of so many guys who depend heavily on puck possession, offensive zone time or PP opportunitites (JT, PA, Schremp, Comeau, etc.).
One thing is for sure, the team deserves this because they sure had nothing going their way for 15+ games earlier this season. But I’m not sure at all they’ve found the best-chance way based on the personnel, yet, in my opinion this team is better than that – or maybe not?
It’s certainly possible, but I just don’t know.
Well now you know that’s a sentiment I can share.
Point definitely taken on PPs and faceoff-win goals. And certainly goalmouth scrambles (though those are always hard to quantify…even in Roloson’s best games he had to benefit from those).
It’s hard to put a finger on (if there’s even a finger to be put on it), but I’m thinking more of the conservative style and behavior when blessed with early leads. I don’t think they’re in any true shutdown mode and certainly their shots allowed don’t reflect a team that’s limiting chances, but the quality of chances allowed — and I know shot quality is also a debatable if not fabricated topic — has looked to me more like a team that’s believing and fighting (via shot blocks, determined checks keeping guys to the outside) to protect leads rather than dreading the inevitable comeback.
I’m not sure what the best approach is with this mix of players, but Capuano’s approach strikes me as proper for taking over a team that was in that death spiral. The six-game losing streak and this 7-1-1 run muddy things, but I think overall the 8-9-3 record of his tenure so far is probably fair.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
the underlying numbers are eeeentristin', ain't they?
Based only on peripherals, you’d expect the records and goal differentials to be swapped. So – how much of this is Capuano, and how much is the Isles finally getting all those bounces and breaks that went continually against them for twenty games?
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
How much of this is steering an aricraft carrier?
There’s only so much course correction that is going to happen over such a short distance. Most of what happens on the ice is up to the players and is only influenced by the coaching staff over the long haul. Without a training camp or a prolonged stretch to work with the players, a change in coaching staff will only change attitudes, tweak special teams and out of necessity simplify the game. All of these things can seem to work wonders, but only over 80 games can you tell if it is going to be effective. Same reason I never believe a first year coach should ever win the Jack Adams, the change alone usually brings a bounce in attitude and you compare their track record to a team that was playing so poorly in the first place that it got the last coach fired.
When Cap was brought in I stated that all it did was burn through a prospect coach that much sooner, since now we’ll have a half a season instead of an entire season to evaluate him. I still think the jury is out because of such a small sample. Snow may have been right to do the evaluating this season rather than blow the start of next year. I also thought Gordon should get an extra year, not as a vote of confidence, but as a hedge against being a lame duck coach. How much did that matter in the long run is anyone’s guess, but its hard to light the fire and he may have been overly cautious because he had no gaurantees.
by Hockey1919 on Jan 5, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Same reason I never believe a first year coach should ever win the Jack Adams, the change alone usually brings a bounce in attitude and you compare their track record to a team that was playing so poorly in the first place that it got the last coach fired.
So so so so so so true.
It’s easy to forget the perfect storm required for a team to bottom out.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
now that’s bringing the wood right there. Great post and agree about Gordon. I think at least Gordon had a vision for how he would like the game to be played and they were trying to manifest that vision but were searching for the right players. It might’ve been a flawed vision and they might not have ever picked it up, but it was worth taking this year to find out I think.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
I agree it was worth it
I think Gordon did a lot of good for several young players, too. The first coach usually becomes a sacrificial lamb as the team grows anyway, so I was pretty excited Snow went with one of the young up-and-comer candidates (Gordon) rather than a veteran retread.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
As much as I've made of it the first guy has to implement a "system"
First coach in the cycle is usually the guy that comes in, instills discipline and gets everyone working on the same page, usually to tighten up on defense to limit the number of blowout losses. Gordon certainly brought discipline, maybe to the point where I know I criticized him for not allowing them to show any spirit. His forecheck scheme was innovative in the sense that he was looking at applying pressure when most other teams with the Isles roster would have been slowing the game down.
PS
regarding Roloson – it’s gotta be the helmet.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Fully agree
He shouldn’t change! Or if he must, he could slap a Lightning logo on top but keep the goalie tributes on the side. The Lightning don’t really have any historic goalies to memorialize (No offense, Khabi).
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Not true!
Darren Puppa! Jon Grahame! Rick Freakin’ Tabaracci!
HISTORY WILL BE MADE.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Long Live Rollie the Goalie! Shutting out the caps in 4 periods, while wearing his lucky charm islanders goalie mask!
Let’s go Lightning! Win the division, win the conference, WIN THE CUP! Win this one, for the Rollie!
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
great… all we need…
with the way MSM treats this team… here’s a recurring theme for next year and after, if it happens
" Sidney won a cup…. Stamkos won a cup… Why can’t Tavares? "
NYI Hockey! We'll get that winless month yet!
That's right
Meanwhile, remember how the media hijacked the 2001 playoffs and turned it into a Win It For Ray campaign? Your turn, Roli.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
I don't think the coach has much to do with it at all.
I really don’t think the coach has much to do with this turnaround. Mostly its just that some pucks are finally going in for us. I don’t mind Capuano. One thing I like about him is that when ever the always grinning Rob Carlin asks him about how great the team has played and how good it must feel he points out that, in fact, the team made too many mistakes and they still have a lot to work on. That’s reassuring to me because it means he’ll continue to push the team to work to get better and minimize mistakes, and that’s important.
by TMS on Jan 5, 2011 1:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If that's true...
They can save the money they’re paying the coach and buy a monkey to blow a whistle at practice.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
What do you guys think about this from over at theprospectpark.com
“There is a reason why the Majors are the best team in the OHL, heck the best team in all of the Canadian juniors and it is Dave Cameron. Before this season people were talking about how Dave Cameron could improve his stock as a future NHL coach.
Memo to Charles Wang owner of the Islanders, you want to fix your franchise? Then here is your fixer and if you do not grab him at the first opportunity then you will not get him."
This post is worth the five minutes it takes to read it.
Cameron is the coach of the Canadian WJC team. I would’ve liked to the post to go more into detail about some of the technical aspects of ‘the system’ but it’s hard to argue with results. If you saw that game you saw the domination.
I believe in coaching and believe it only works though when you get the right players for the right system. I feel like the Isles with Capuano don’t really have a direction, but that’s obviously pure speculation.
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
I was thinking Cap would be replaced...
But if he can keep the team above .500 the rest of the way it’ll be hard.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I agree, the "trap" is a system that seems to be working. If capuano has these results the rest of the year(or .500+) with the team he is icing,
then I don’t see how you don’t extend him(or keep him if he is still signed) for the isles coaching job.
Cameron does look like a good candidate, not sure if it’s the system or the players, or both though. Looks promising.
John Tavares=The Franchise, The Future, and still only 20yrs old, SO GIVE HIM SOME F**KING TIME TO MATURE CRITICS! Not everyone is Wayne Gretzky(although Tavares did break some of his records....tee hee)
The only way to get replaced as an Islander head coach...
under Wang, is to make the playoffs… which makes me wonder what Gordon could have done… because there was no way this team was going to make the playoffs while he was around.
Lighthouse Hockey: "where everybody knows your screen name" -mikb
I watch hockey because I love the game, I watch the Islanders because I hate myself.
Interesting
Yeah, I don’t think what happened was that complicated — Canada played really well and the U.S. never adjusted nor offered a response. His Majors coaching may be a better reflection
As for hot junior coaches, sometimes they work out, sometimes they flame out. Biggest challenge is getting the NHL players to buy in to a guy who’s walking in new.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
That post seemed a little ridiculous to me.
And like you said he didn’t give any specifics about the system.
by TMS on Jan 5, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Now looks really ironic after tonight's collapse
Wow!
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
by Dominik on Jan 6, 2011 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha
….forget I said anything.
I was just wondering if anyone had heard him as a
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
good candidate
(accidentally posted before I was done)
"It don't make you a bad person" - Ron Bennington
The only thing different between Capuano and Gordon
is that Cappy seems a little more motivated to change defensive schemes and the orientation of the offense as the game sees fit. Gordon I think may have been a little over his head, called in for his first coaching job to early. Cappy seems to have more seasoning as a coach and more tools in his bag when it comes to switching things up.
Thats as far as what I’ve observed. Can’t really offer anything else up cept that Cappy may also know these guys a little more.
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1979-80
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May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
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May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
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May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
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May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
