Jon Sim on Unconditional Waivers
Via the Isles official Twitter, Katie Strang and the Sound Tigers. Strang reports even if he clears, Sim will no longer be a member of the organization.
UPDATE - Reese waived as well.
over 1 year ago
David Hanssen
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More on Sim
He refused to report to Bridgeport once he cleared waivers three days ago, was suspended and obviously now whether or not he’s claimed on unconditional waivers, he’s done with the Isles organization.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
Funny
I was just going to look at how he was doing down there since being sent down. He has been pretty good about the whole thing, and really If I was him and was seeing JJ and Colliton in the lineup over me, I’d be annoyed too. I was also just going to say today that I’d rather him be in the lineup than those other two. Either way, with Frans and KO coming back, this isn’t as bad for the big club as it is for BPT.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Jan 14, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ahhh, so he got tired of the waiver-go-round
I was just going to say that’s cold to cut him outright, but if he doesn’t want to play ball that’s another story.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Termination
Strang added this:
According to NHL deputy commish Bill Daly, Sim’s contract “can be terminated for a material breach”
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Sim was signed to a two way contract wasn;’ he? Does anyone know how much less he was paid at the AHL level? I’d be willing to go overseas as well if it meant I wouldn’t have to ride buses for hours for AHL wages. Its not like he’s looking to pay his dues to make it in the NHL, he needs to maximize his pay now.
Sarcasm is my permanent font.
Memory numbers here. Highly unreliable.
I believe his two-way contract was priced at: 600K/120-125K. NHL/AHL. Don’t quote me on that.
Why is Reese on waivers? He doesn't have enough games, I thought.
I don’t understand this unconditional thing.
Unconditional waivers is CBA-ese for "we don't want this guy even if he clears"
First step before buying out (or, in this instance, relinquishing rights).
Re: Reese, it’s his age. The CBA has a table, designed specifically to confuse you and keep me up at night, where the older you are and the later you got your first NHL contract, the fewer games (if any) that are needed before you must be exposed to waivers.
The best way to look at it is everyone must clear waivers to be reassigned, but some guys are exempt until they’re old enough and/or have played enough games. Because Bailey started at the earliest possible age, he required 160 NHL games before he was no longer exempt.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Reese
Actually as a 25+ year old player, no matter how many NHL games he’s played in he has to pass through waivers to be reassigned.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 14, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
and just for fun
the rules are different still for goalkeepers.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Becase you goalies are special.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
by Dominik on Jan 14, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Oddly...
On tuesday I asked Mike Fornabaio if there is even a place for Reese in BPT… he said, “yes”, but if you think about it, probably not.. especially with CDH and possibly dehart coming at the end of their junior seasons. If Streit makes an attempt to come back, with all three KKK guys playing and the addition of Wishart. the Isles should be looking elsewhere for depth. At least he had a JPinVA + to go out on.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Which is probably part of why we kept seeing Reese, giving him a long term look in the NHL.
"My son, who is 6, just asked if he had to keep watching the Islanders. I said it’s the Islanders or bed. He chose bed." Mulligan
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Juniors still have another 2 months right?
They could be worrying about room then but we won’t see any of the juniors guys for a little while.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
At least
Depending on whether the team makes the playoffs/how far they go in said playoffs. The generals probably will make the playoffs barring a major collapse. So think beginning of April at the earliest, which would mean 1-2 regular season games and playoffs if the Sound Tigers qualify. So its probably more looking towards the future depth wise then the end of the season, whether Reese is good enough to extend an RFA tender to this summer or give that NHL contract to one of the prospects.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 14, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sim never bothered me
He had two decent years before coming to the Isles, 13 goals last year. I felt he drew some penalties, went into corners and did what he had to do. I never thought he was the problem; and his replacements haven’t wowed me either.
It was time
I appreciate that he hustles 100% of the time, but In 34 games, Sim had 1 goal and 3 assists. He’s not on the PP or PK. Lately, it seemed that he was being called for more penalties than he was drawing. I can’t think of any good reason why he should be in the line-up over younger players. I wish him well, but think the Isles did the right thing.
by JoRiverside on Jan 14, 2011 1:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed with this.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
Agreed on the taking more penalties
though I’m not sure it was always his fault. I think he was getting a lot of “reputation penalties” called on him. And while it’s not nice to say, that makes him kind of a liability if he’s not putting up big enough numbers to overlook that.
by ilopan on Jan 14, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bruno has played well...
He’s no Julia Child mind you… but Graham Kerr would be proud!
Holy crap… I pulled that name out of my ass… and looked it up, and I was dead on! I watched too much TV as a kid… and as an adult too.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
galloping gourmet?
Sarcasm is my permanent font.
Graham Kerr.............
Give that man a cigar, Graham Kerr is correct! Now Don Pardo tell him what he’s won: Well JPinVA you a won a DVD collection of Tommy “five hole” Sotterstrum"s greatest moments, which feature his greatest moment as an Islander goaltender: while wearing the fish sticks jersey and doning his canary helmet cage giving up Mario Lameux’s 500th goal.
by Russel Ginart on Jan 14, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wooo Tommy Soderstrom DVD!
My favorite goalie when I started goaltending, I even had a Tommy Soderstrom replica stick. So sad when he didn’t stick around.
I’ll take the DVD!
"My son, who is 6, just asked if he had to keep watching the Islanders. I said it’s the Islanders or bed. He chose bed." Mulligan
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
I always wanted
the Soderstrom mask
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 16, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
GOOD
If you dont think Brunos worth more than either of them I dont know what to tell you… other than the fact that I think youre ragging on him out of habit rather than looking at him play.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Interestingly
The next game after I said that, Bruno had a fantastic game.
Lets keep sending him good vibes lol.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 16, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Strang Tweet:
Sim to pursue career in Switzerland…God, we scared him out of the country. Enjoy the fine assortment of chocolates, cheeses, watches and medical care.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
March 9, 2011
Jon Sim returns to NHL as member of the Washington Capitals. “It’s nice to be needed and to know I can contribute,” Sim said to reporters after his first practice. “Also, I was sick of being announced at games as ‘#16, Nino’s Buddy from the Islanders.’”
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
Obviously he's going to Tampa
That’s where all former Islanders go to pasture.
by Fabtraption on Jan 14, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't mind Sim as a AHL guy/depth call up
But if he does not want to play that role then have fun in Europe.
We all know that some of these guys are going to be weeded out if we are ever going to progress on the rebuild. I’m sure we can run a whole post on who in the farm system needs to be plowed under in the Spring.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Agreed
And honestly, getting paid to play hockey in Switzerland is a pretty sweet coda to an NHL career. If his family is open to living there for a little while, all the better.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
The Sound of Hockey
Sim, a guy, a hockey guy
Isles, the team that let him go
Time to leave the N-H-L
Off to Switzerland I go!
Goals, I hope to finally score
Fans, who cheer when I skate by
Dough, I hope to earn some more
So to Switerland I go!
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
by mikb on Jan 14, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That was funny
How long did it take to come up with that? Now that “song” will be stuck in my head all day. (It has to be better than “Let’s Go to the Mall”! :-)
rec'd like sim's NHL rep
Well… actually… can you blame him. first they let his best friend in the world (Scott Gordon) go, then he’s still getting shit on by the new guy…
Actually… just did this with Doug Weight… where does he fit in anymore. JJ may not be an NHL player, but he’ll probably get a few more games to prove it. I think Rhett gets more games when he’s healthy, Okie should be back this month, they have Ullstrom and Figren that may get a few games… and possibly a RW prospect from somewhere at the deadline.
I don’t think I’d take the $80K rate to get the snot knocked out of me by a bunch of wannabes either.
Thanks Jon… and good luck.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
I didn’t mind Sim as a AHL guy/depth call up
But if he does not want to play that role then have fun in Europe.
Absolutely agree. I like the guy but if he is tired of the runaround and wants to go to Europe, I wish him all the best.
Heck- he might have worked this out with Snows blessing for all we know.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 14, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Possible
But the rumblings are that he was also suspended by us. Which may need to be part of the plan, but who knows.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
He has to be if his contract is going to be voided
Its all part of the process.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 14, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
and reading the recent Newsday stuff, it sounds like you’re right. Read it after that post. There was absolutely no ripping in the articles whatsoever, so for that to happen after a guy breaches contract, I’m sure it was amicable.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Jan 14, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
They got you to the name change mind washing replacement factory quick Mr. Quinn.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 14, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I woke up here
pantsless and with several tattoos. I think Dom submitted on Mon/Tue…Is that fast?
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
by Keith Quinn on Jan 15, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Sad to see the way it ended
I wasn’t his biggest proponent, but it still is a guys career and he did suck it up quite a bit over the past few seasons. Good luck to him and Auf Wiedersehen.
Reese is terrible, but I’m a little surprised just because how thin we are at D already, and there are no guarantees we won’t get thinner.
I’m with you on that. In fact, if the D-man Karma Rule is the same as the Goalie Karma rule, it’s pretty much guaranteed that we will lose another top d-man for the season soon.
2011 is our year! Now if only seasons didn't span over two years.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jan 14, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Is Reese on unconditional too?
Twitter is blocked at work and I cannot find any other sources. I’m assuming he would be assigned if unclaimed, no?
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Correct, just reassigned if/when unclaimed
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
You can try checking the RSS feed of Strangs Twitter page if Twitter itself is blocked.
You can put the twitter link into something like blogger.com and then read it on there, that will probably work. Unles blogger.com is blocked, too.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 14, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'll try to remember that next time
It’s just the social sites like Twitter & Facebook.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Sim
I agree with the move, but at least he played a physical game, more than some of the ballerinas we have now.
hey
You leave Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman out of this!
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
"isn’t it amazingly simple to use the link pop-up?" - JPinVA
by mikb on Jan 14, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hey
Those two are welcome at my table any time.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
When does Andy Hilbert get recalled to replace Sim?
We need a lightening rod for criticism don’t we? DP is out injured, we’ve been beating up on Schremp lately and Comeau too, but we may actually want to keep them around. So can we get a new whipping boy that is easy to discard?
Sarcasm is my permanent font.
We like Bruno, he just isn't very good, very often.
Sarcasm is my permanent font.
I don't know what's going on with Hilbert
He’s yet to play in a game for Bridgeport this season and I can’t get any info on what/when/whether he’s injured.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 14, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
MIA... I think it is a concussion...
… but no conclussive evidence. Even Fornabaio is stumped… at least that’s the impression I get on his Tuesday chats and in the articles I’ve read so far.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
Interesting.
With all the roster moves we’ve made this season, I would have liked to see what he had going on still. I liked him as a 3rd liner when we had him, but I don’t think he warrants a 3rd line center spot, wing yes for a tryout.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
Thats funny
Andy Hilbert………LMAO he is arriving as a tag team pair with (ole time Isles) Randy “dead” Wood.
by Russel Ginart on Jan 14, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Sad to see Sim go, there were definitely some games this year that he seemed to be one of the only guys along with Frans that was actually trying to win games.
It is sort of silly though to sign a 2 way contract and then not want to report to Bridgeport. What did he expect would happen after signing a 2 way?
"My son, who is 6, just asked if he had to keep watching the Islanders. I said it’s the Islanders or bed. He chose bed." Mulligan
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
lol, exactly.
“What do you mean I have to go back to bridgeport?”, acting like he would have had a steady nhl job somewhere else (unless he knows something we don’t).
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
This is disrespectful
I get the fact that as a player Sim is limited in what he can do. OTOH, the guy lays his heart and soul in the ice everynight. One of the few guys in that locker room that comes prepared to play everyday. Never takes a shift off.
One thing to move a guy cause the team is taking another direction. Entirely another to go about it like this. For years Sim has done yeoman’s duty for this team; Getting sent to Bport and taking it on the chin.
I hope he lands on his feet somewhere.
I like Sim
But he signed the two way contract in the offseason. If ANYONE had offered him a one way deal he probably would have signed it. If your going to sign a two way you should understand part of it is playing in the AHL for less money.
"My son, who is 6, just asked if he had to keep watching the Islanders. I said it’s the Islanders or bed. He chose bed." Mulligan
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Sim was also the one who obviously was looking for an out with a European team (Otherwise the reports of him going to Switzerland so soon after being waived wouldn’t have appeared) and he was the one that refused to report to Bridgeport upon his demotion. He knew the score when, like WebBard said, he signed a 2 way deal in the offseason. I think honestly the disrespect might be more on his side than the Isles.
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 14, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
But honestly
When they are carrying an extra D that happens to be Reese, and Colliton, Gillies and JJ are getting minutes and he is being sent down (and not even a healthy scratch), it’s somewhat understandable on Sim’s part…there really was no way for that to end nicely…unless it did as per TMC’s point below.
"Gervais...he looks danger in the fist with his face!" JPinVA
A one was deal or a two way deal only has one implication
A two way deal means you get paid a lesser amount if sent down to the minors. A one way just guarentees the same pay either way. A two way deal does not translate into “I agree to play in the AHL whenever you see fit regardless of the fact that I’ve earned my spot”. It just, in legal terms, is a financial agreement.
I don’t think Sim’s refusal to play in Bridgeport has much to do with money. He’s gone down, done his job and gotten called back up multiple times without complaint. Given that Sim has given a complete effort both ways (few guys on the NHL roster ie Gervaise, Colliton or Schremp should be getting demoted over Sim) it clearly is disrespectful in a sense that there are more than a few lazy humps still on the roster maintaining their spot.
I’d rather Sim than Gervaise or Schremp.
by Chickendirt on Jan 15, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
But if someone sim's age signs a 2-way deal, I think it's pretty evident he's signed for depth 1st and foremost. And if he earns or gets some nhl time, great. But I don't think signing a 2-way is a sign that he deserves to be in the nhl and once he gets
demoted 1 too many times that he has the right to force himself to stay up or walk.
1-Gervais is a d-man, and hasn’t done anything to warrant negativity. He is a #6/#7 d-man right now, and imo is very reliable in that spot for the most part. Don’t expect more or less from him. And Gervais being up has nothing to do with sim being demoted because they play different positions.
2-Schremp is somewhat of a bum without the puck, but if the man produces offensively he’s doing his job. Right now on the verge of a 20goal/50pts(80gm equivalent) season, and sim couldn’t do that in his prime. And for a team that lacks offense, an offensive center is a lot more important then a 3rd line agitator. I’m not in love with schremp either, but if the man produces like he does playing 15min/gm, stays out of the penalty box, and doesn’t make any obviously stupid plays I’m ok with him.
Sim was an ok 4th liner, but aside from that he shouldn’t have been playing 3rd line rw, and I’d much rather a younger guy like colliton get a shot at the nhl in that spot for some games then have sim play stop gap till okposo comes back. Either way, Sim was getting demoted within a month when KO comes back, so I don’t know why he was angry about this.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
And it's not like ANY other nhl team wants him. He passed through waivers countless times.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.
disrespectful?
One thing to move a guy cause the team is taking another direction. Entirely another to go about it like this.
Going about it like this is the legal way for the Isles to be able to let him go to Switzerland if that is something he honestly wants to do. Its the only way- otherwise, he would have to honor his contract.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Jan 14, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Holy SHIT this team is young now.
Isles are getting rid of one of the few guys they had left who isnt in his 20s.
All the have left now is- Gillies and Martinek?
Weight, Hunter, Eaton, Mottau, Streit are all out… and they are the only guys left who are over 30.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
I wonder if this drama had any effect on the team
With how bad they came out yesterday it makes you wonder if this was at least part of it.
You mean to tell me shooting the puck from 70 feet out doesn't earn us extra goals?
Must say
After all the abuse Sim has taken from the fans, I am actually somewhat sad to see him leave. This is a man who, despite the lack luster performance of other islanders, really gave his all for this team night after night. This is a player who, despite being undersized, was never afraid to get into it with other players and defend our own young ones. I really hope that this was a pre-approved deal that Garth let him go and found a way around the CBA, as it would be the right thing to do for a player like Sim who has been anything but respectful towards his role. I wish him the best of luck in Switzerland and I feel that he may not be the skill player that we all hoped, I wish that his work ethic was contagious in the locker room and all the younger islanders took note. Farewell Mr. Sim, you will be missed by atleast one fan.
You should've seen her face. It was the exact same look my father gave me when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist.
by mikefromVA on Jan 14, 2011 10:22 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
make that two...
and in an act of solidarity I am boycotting the Norfolk game tonight.
I really was actually looking forward to seeing him dominate in BPT again. Maybe I’ll go to Switzerland instead.
Lighthouse Hockey: where "you better check yourself before you rec yourself" -bobl
If your life isn't pathetic enough already, follow me on twitter @JPinVA
So you’re not going for the pink ice tonight?
It was worth posting my drivel to get that link… That was the Shizzle my HansunFrizzle! - JPinVA
After being fired as head coach, now a "Special Adviser" to Lighthouse Hockey
Hockey Wilderness - Because misery loves company.
by David Hanssen on Jan 15, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I just liked him because he pissed off the Rags so much.
That alone made it worth him being around. Good luck, John!
2011 is our year! Now if only seasons didn't span over two years.
by ICanSeeForIslesAndIsles on Jan 14, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'll miss him for the Rag games
The Avery Sim interactions were always my fav part of Isles/Rags games. Sim was the best anti-Avery I’ve seen
by neologizer on Jan 15, 2011 12:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
lol, he was good. But Wiz was the best anti-avery I've ever seen, and created a timeless memory in doing so.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.










































