Islanders' scoring chances at halfway-mark
The Islanders are almost there - tonight's game against the Vancouver Canucks will mark the 41st game of the season. Since no one is tracking scoring chances for the Canucks I believe - and apparently no one for the Isles - we can now take a look at what is the Islanders' scoring-chance summary halfway through the season. At this point you might wonder where the data comes from given no one is tracking the Isles. Well, I actually just went through all the games that had been tracked by bloggers of other teams around the league and put some tables together.
First of all, a special thanks as always to Vic Ferrari for setting up this whole project and the scripts. Then, for the data, full credit as mentioned goes to all the guys tracking chances around the league. The group includes Derek (Florida), George (Rangers), Olivier (Montreal), "Slava" (Toronto), "Knee high to a duck" (Washington), Dennis (Edmonton) and Kent (Calgary).
All games played by the Islanders against these 7 teams sum up to 13 (7 away, 6 at home) at this point for a combined record of 4-9-0 and goal differential of 34-43. The sample is at least fairly representative therefore for what the team's done overall this season, but it obviously includes only a third of their total games and that certainly has to be taken into account when looking at these numbers.
For instance, Corsi figures or any other advanced stats might tell us more about what's happened on the ice thus far this season than these scoring chances here. But since I have the data on my computer anyway, I thought it might be worth sharing them just to give a look at where the guys stand and maybe draw some attention to certain stuff or certainly the great work all the guys tracking chances have done. And as I won't be able to do any sort of more detailed analyses (WOWY, etc.) with these numbers at the end of the season I thought it might be valueable to at least have the numbers halfway through available, too, and then go from there to see maybe how certain guys have done with certain others (e.g. JT with Okposo, etc.).
In case you wonder what counts as a scoring chance, here's a definition of what the guys take into account when tracking chances (from George's Rangers summary in December).
A scoring chance is defined as a clear play directed toward the opposing net from a dangerous scoring area - loosely defined as the top of the circle in and inside the faceoff dots, though sometimes slightly more generous than that depending on the amount of immediately-preceding puck movement or screens in front of the net. Blocked shots are generally not included, but missed shots are. A player is awarded a scoring chance anytime he is on the ice and someone from either team has a chance to score. He is awarded a "chance for" if someone on his team has a chance to score and a "chance against" if the opposing team has a chance to score.
raw data: Nielsen very impressive
Everything I'm looking at here includes all even-strength situations. Let's take a look at the raw data first. I try to highlight a few things and add context where possible, but normally the tables are straight forward of course. If you have any questions or would like to know how certain guys did in certain games, please leave a note in the comments.
Here's the summary for the forwards first and then defenders, ordered by TC%. You can see the amount of games tracked they played in (games), time on ice per game they spent in these specific games (TOI/game), total chances for (TCF), total chances against (TCA) and the percentage of total chances for (TC%).
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
TCF |
TCA |
TC% |
|
7 |
Hunter |
5 |
11.9 |
20 |
13 |
0.61 |
|
51 |
Nielsen |
12 |
11.3 |
41 |
30 |
0.58 |
|
12 |
Bailey |
10 |
13.3 |
41 |
37 |
0.53 |
|
57 |
Comeau |
12 |
14.5 |
44 |
48 |
0.48 |
|
15 |
Parenteau |
13 |
14.3 |
48 |
53 |
0.48 |
|
40 |
Grabner |
11 |
12.5 |
32 |
42 |
0.43 |
|
58 |
Joensuu |
5 |
13.1 |
16 |
21 |
0.43 |
|
91 |
Tavares |
11 |
15.7 |
47 |
63 |
0.43 |
|
26 |
Moulson |
13 |
15.4 |
49 |
74 |
0.40 |
|
17 |
Martin |
9 |
9.7 |
18 |
32 |
0.36 |
|
93 |
Weight |
6 |
13.8 |
16 |
32 |
0.33 |
|
44 |
Schremp |
7 |
12.7 |
14 |
30 |
0.32 |
|
28 |
Konopka |
13 |
8.3 |
15 |
34 |
0.31 |
|
16 |
Sim |
12 |
10.1 |
13 |
44 |
0.23 |
|
25 |
Niederreiter |
5 |
13.5 |
7 |
29 |
0.19 |
|
14 |
Gillies |
9 |
2.9 |
0 |
10 |
0.00 |
- Trent Hunter's sample is apparently very small and he played a good part of the games tracked together with Nielsen and certainly benefited there, but it's still remarkable he leads the way.
- The true hero's got to be Frans Nielsen, though. As seen in terms of Corsi last season, he's again putting up some very impressive numbers indeed. He's outchanced the opposition despite doing some very heavy lifting indeed on an obviously rather weak team. He might not always have faced toughest competition this season, but still is among the leaders there and however certainly has had terribly tough zone starts and the toughest combination of the two of any Isles player indeed. I really wonder how many guys around the league would perform similarly under these circumstances. The surprising number for him is TOI/game. I know he's crucial on the PK as much as valuable on the PP, too, but I still think they'd be better off finding a way to get him more EV time because he certainly is their best player at even-strength indeed.
- Judging from these numbers Rob Schremp's got to step up his game. Have to add, though, that a 2-11 game against the Rangers (when they lost 2-7) hurt his numbers here significantly. And he's had tougher zone starts than you'd expect perhaps, but still, that's not good enough. By the way, considering Blake Comeau went 2-11 in that game against the Rangers, too, his numbers look fairly healthy.
- Jon Sim and Zenon Konopka have both had very tough zone starts and at least early on played against some tough competition, too. Not saying they've been doing great, but you'd certainly expect these two at the bottom indeed.
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
TCF |
TCA |
TC% |
|
27 |
Jurcina |
10 |
14.0 |
44 |
46 |
0.49 |
|
38 |
Hillen |
9 |
14.0 |
38 |
43 |
0.47 |
|
10 |
Mottau |
7 |
15.9 |
28 |
36 |
0.44 |
|
24 |
Martinek |
9 |
16.7 |
30 |
40 |
0.43 |
|
4 |
Eaton |
12 |
16.7 |
45 |
61 |
0.42 |
|
20 |
Wisniewski |
10 |
16.6 |
38 |
59 |
0.39 |
|
8 |
Gervais |
5 |
10.8 |
14 |
25 |
0.36 |
|
36 |
Hamonic |
6 |
16.0 |
16 |
30 |
0.35 |
|
47 |
MacDonald |
9 |
15.9 |
23 |
46 |
0.33 |
|
42 |
Reese |
3 |
12.0 |
4 |
8 |
0.33 |
- The defender's numbers are tough to analyze due to all the the injuries. Most of the guys have missed a good part of the games and almost everyone has been used in pretty much every role from top-pair defender to #5-6. It however looks like Jack Hillen might have done a little better than given credit for, though then again he's perhaps had rather good D partners in relation to the competition faced.
- Andrew MacDonald and Travis Hamonic are certainly not where you'd expect them to be. They finished 4-11 and 5-11 respectively in that game against the Rangers, but throughout had hardly any game in the plus. They've however certainly faced toughest competition and I don't think these numbers here are indicative of their play overall, though I did think their performances were overrated in some specific games.
chances for: Bailey and JT up there
Instead of listing the raw data, I try to put things into perspective in the following sections a little bit by taking a look at what the players either created or gave up given their ice time. Here's the numbers for each player in terms of 15 minutes of ice-time, i.e. chances for per 15 minutes of ice-time (CF/15), chances against per 15 minutes of ice-time (CA/15) and the differential (DIFF/15), ordered by CF/15. To make things easier to read you can find the same data ordered by CA/15 below.
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
CF/15 |
CA/15 |
DIFF/15 |
|
7 |
Hunter |
5 |
11.9 |
5.04 |
3.28 |
1.76 |
|
12 |
Bailey |
10 |
13.3 |
4.62 |
4.17 |
0.45 |
|
51 |
Nielsen |
12 |
11.3 |
4.54 |
3.32 |
1.22 |
|
91 |
Tavares |
11 |
15.7 |
4.08 |
5.47 |
-1.39 |
|
15 |
Parenteau |
13 |
14.3 |
3.89 |
4.29 |
-0.40 |
|
57 |
Comeau |
12 |
14.5 |
3.78 |
4.13 |
-0.34 |
|
58 |
Joensuu |
5 |
13.1 |
3.68 |
4.82 |
-1.15 |
|
26 |
Moulson |
13 |
15.4 |
3.66 |
5.53 |
-1.87 |
|
40 |
Grabner |
11 |
12.5 |
3.49 |
4.58 |
-1.09 |
|
17 |
Martin |
9 |
9.7 |
3.09 |
5.49 |
-2.40 |
|
93 |
Weight |
6 |
13.8 |
2.91 |
5.81 |
-2.91 |
|
44 |
Schremp |
7 |
12.7 |
2.35 |
5.04 |
-2.69 |
|
28 |
Konopka |
13 |
8.3 |
2.08 |
4.72 |
-2.64 |
|
16 |
Sim |
12 |
10.1 |
1.61 |
5.45 |
-3.84 |
|
25 |
Niederreiter |
5 |
13.5 |
1.55 |
6.43 |
-4.87 |
|
14 |
Gillies |
9 |
2.9 |
0.00 |
5.73 |
-5.73 |
- Trent Hunter not only in the lead in terms of raw data, but also in terms of chances created per 15 minutes of ice-time. It's not exclusively the shutdown hockey that makes him a valueable part of this team therefore. The same obviously goes for Frans Nielsen, who's not only their best center overall, but has indeed helped creating more chances for than any other center.
- While struggling a bit overall, the top-line of Moulson-JT-PA is up there in terms of chances created for. Particularly over the last few weeks they've played against really tough competition most of the nights and thus are doing fairly well overall I'd say, though clearly are not playing on the level of an NHL top-line.
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
CF/15 |
CA/15 |
DIFF/15 |
|
27 |
Jurcina |
10 |
14.0 |
4.73 |
4.94 |
-0.21 |
|
38 |
Hillen |
9 |
14.0 |
4.52 |
5.11 |
-0.59 |
|
8 |
Gervais |
5 |
10.8 |
3.89 |
6.94 |
-3.06 |
|
10 |
Mottau |
7 |
15.9 |
3.77 |
4.84 |
-1.08 |
|
20 |
Wisniewski |
10 |
16.6 |
3.44 |
5.33 |
-1.90 |
|
4 |
Eaton |
12 |
16.7 |
3.38 |
4.58 |
-1.20 |
|
24 |
Martinek |
9 |
16.7 |
2.99 |
3.98 |
-1.00 |
|
36 |
Hamonic |
6 |
16.0 |
2.51 |
4.70 |
-2.19 |
|
47 |
MacDonald |
9 |
15.9 |
2.41 |
4.82 |
-2.41 |
|
42 |
Reese |
3 |
12.0 |
1.25 |
2.51 |
-1.25 |
- Not much to add here, maybe James Wisniewski would have been expected to do a bit better in this particular category given he did get opportunities to start in the offensive zone and with scoring lines.
chances against: top-line struggling
As mentioned, the same data again, ordered by CA/15 this time.
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
CF/15 |
CA/15 |
DIFF/15 |
|
7 |
Hunter |
5 |
11.9 |
5.04 |
3.28 |
1.76 |
|
51 |
Nielsen |
12 |
11.3 |
4.54 |
3.32 |
1.22 |
|
57 |
Comeau |
12 |
14.5 |
3.78 |
4.13 |
-0.34 |
|
12 |
Bailey |
10 |
13.3 |
4.62 |
4.17 |
0.45 |
|
15 |
Parenteau |
13 |
14.3 |
3.89 |
4.29 |
-0.40 |
|
40 |
Grabner |
11 |
12.5 |
3.49 |
4.58 |
-1.09 |
|
28 |
Konopka |
13 |
8.3 |
2.08 |
4.72 |
-2.64 |
|
58 |
Joensuu |
5 |
13.1 |
3.68 |
4.82 |
-1.15 |
|
44 |
Schremp |
7 |
12.7 |
2.35 |
5.04 |
-2.69 |
|
16 |
Sim |
12 |
10.1 |
1.61 |
5.45 |
-3.84 |
|
91 |
Tavares |
11 |
15.7 |
4.08 |
5.47 |
-1.39 |
|
17 |
Martin |
9 |
9.7 |
3.09 |
5.49 |
-2.40 |
|
26 |
Moulson |
13 |
15.4 |
3.66 |
5.53 |
-1.87 |
|
14 |
Gillies |
9 |
2.9 |
0.00 |
5.73 |
-5.73 |
|
93 |
Weight |
6 |
13.8 |
2.91 |
5.81 |
-2.91 |
|
25 |
Niederreiter |
5 |
13.5 |
1.55 |
6.43 |
-4.87 |
- Obviously again very impressive what kind of numbers Trent Hunter and of course Frans Nielsen have produced. Frans is playing against scoring lines most of the nights and starting in his own zone pretty often, but is only giving up a bit over 3 chances per 15 minutes of ice time opposed to over 4 or even over 5 the other forwards give up.
- John Tavares and Matt Moulson apparently are not quite as impressive here as you'd hope them to be. As mentioned, they've played against rather tough competition lately, but on the other hand have had the most favourable zone starts and overall definitely need to improve here. PA's much further up this table because he played some games on the wing of Bailey or Nielsen early in the season, but actually also might make a statement towards those who think JT is helping him more than he's helping JT.
|
|
|
games |
TOI/game |
CF/15 |
CA/15 |
DIFF/15 |
|
42 |
Reese |
3 |
12.0 |
1.25 |
2.51 |
-1.25 |
|
24 |
Martinek |
9 |
16.7 |
2.99 |
3.98 |
-1.00 |
|
4 |
Eaton |
12 |
16.7 |
3.38 |
4.58 |
-1.20 |
|
36 |
Hamonic |
6 |
16.0 |
2.51 |
4.70 |
-2.19 |
|
47 |
MacDonald |
9 |
15.9 |
2.41 |
4.82 |
-2.41 |
|
10 |
Mottau |
7 |
15.9 |
3.77 |
4.84 |
-1.08 |
|
27 |
Jurcina |
10 |
14.0 |
4.73 |
4.94 |
-0.21 |
|
38 |
Hillen |
9 |
14.0 |
4.52 |
5.11 |
-0.59 |
|
20 |
Wisniewski |
10 |
16.6 |
3.44 |
5.33 |
-1.90 |
|
8 |
Gervais |
5 |
10.8 |
3.89 |
6.94 |
-3.06 |
- Radek Martinek and Mark Eaton were a pretty good pair early on. They often played against toughest competition back then and still seem to have come out realtively well. It also seems Hamonic-MacDonald have struggled a bit overall because the team struggled to create chances when they were on. The opposite is true for Jack Hillen, who's got healthy numbers overall thanks to the offense provided by the team when he was on the ice, but whose defensive numbers are disappointing.
- Bruno Gervais has struggled quite a bit here. But - though I do think he's just not been good enough lately - it's obviously only five games in this sample and it's certainly not been an easy season generally for him, being a healthy scratch early on and getting injured then plus often playing with either Reese or Hillen.
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Comments
Thanks so much for compiling this, BenHasna
I knew it’d be a chore with only certain games tracked, but this is a nice snapshot.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Great summary
and a good read as well. I wonder if there were some way to count every time we jump up after an Isles shot and yell “Hit the net!” Would be considered part of this breakdown as well?
Sometimes your the dog, sometimes your the hydrant
obsession, you're my obsession...
Thanks for posting this. I’m hoping to get through it during the snowstorm. Next time my wife makes some comment about my little obsession with the Islanders, I’ll show her this post and she will understand just how detailed (and obsessed) fans can be!
As for Gervais, “though I do think he’s just not been good enough lately” what exactly does “lately” mean? Since puberty?
by Brian Frazee on Jan 11, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Bruno
heh, well, in this case I meant something along since being back in the line-up regularly, i.e. December 23 against New Jersey. Not saying that I’m a fan or that Bruno is easy to figure out after all, but I do think he’s showed some spells of pretty good hockey over the last few seasons. This season I thought he needed some time to get a rhythm after having been a healthy scratch for 3-4 weeks. Then, from around mid-November on I thought he played some pretty good games indeed – until he ran into Colin White and broke the cheek bone. It’s natural he’d struggle coming back from that kind of an injury having to wear a cage and all. Judging from the fact that he switched to a full glass shield a few games ago it looks like the whole thing is still bothering him.
So, I’d normally give him the benefit of the doubt for most of the performances over the last few weeks, particularly because he’s been paired with mostly Reese. But then again, I noticed some plays where he seemed lost totally and was just watching the play and contributing nothing offensively at all. That’s why I’ve been disappointed lately regardless of the injury and might indeed start to give up on him, though that might be unfair or wrong to do during this particular stretch.
rec'd for obsession evidence
It’s funny how our obsessions come out in different ways (draft, history, unis, advanced data, fightin’, scapegoats and whipping boys, well-maintained in-home altars to #51 that perhaps take up more rooms than they should).
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Ouch
Ouch! A reply fail on a rec explanation! This is a new low for me. Rec/reply meant for Frazee’s “obsession” comment above.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
rooms?
You mean you don’t have an exclusive HOUSE for your Frans Shrine? Uh-oh.
known far and wide for stat-fu and irking people
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Had a house
But the Romans destroyed it.
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
a question
First – thanks for doing the legwork!
Second – a defender’s chances for and chances against look, at least superficially, like the relative difference between drawing and taking penalties. Should we expect a defender to have a lower ratio due to the nature of his job? I see that, according to the definition, they don’t count rushes broken up or shots blocked, only the chances where a shot gets through (missed or not)… it would be informative to check the ratio of chances generated to total possessions, and see whether a player was markedly better or worse at breaking up rushes or intercepting passes into the slot, clearing away rebounds, that sort of thing.
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Lighthouse Hockey - a beacon of greatness on the rocky coast of sports blog mediocrity
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I don't think so
Not sure if I can explain this properly, but – no, I don’t think so. The players are not credited with a chance for/against exclusively when they’re involved in the play directly, but just generally when they’re on the ice. So, when JT makes a move down low and creates a scoring chance, Gervais will get a plus, too, but on the other hand when Gervais breaks up a rush or anything he prevents himself as well as JT from getting a minus. And the same obviously works for the opposing team, as well, so, the ability of opposing defenders have an effect on chances created for JT as well as Gervais.
Well, I guess I struggle to explain it properly, heh. Just think of the 5 guys on the ice working as a unit – against a unit. Obviously because the Isles’ unit often is overmatched, most of the ratios here are negative (below 50%), but that has nothing to do with forwards vs. defense. Take a look at the scoring chances of last year’s Stanley Cup Final for example, where Pronger and Timonen had the best ratios of any Flyers’.
Nice work
Although since a blocked shot doesn’t count as a scoring chance and the Isles are second in the league in blocked shots, I wonder how many scoring chances the Islanders dman have broken up.
Thanks to the Winter Classic, we have finally found ice worse then the Coliseums'
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Thanks. Well, I generally never really know what to make of blocked shots, so, the following is a little vague…
I think the value of blocking shots is a little overstated sometimes. I much rather look at blocked shots in a “negative” way. If you block a lot of shots it means you spend an awful lot of time in your own zone. Obviously, it does help if your defenders block shots and some defenders are certainly better at it than others, but I guess it’s mostly not the highest quality kind of shots (or “scoring chances” for this matter) you block.
I’d too change the definition of a scoring chance slightly, as I don’t think it requires a shot for “something dangerous happening in front of the net” to be called a scoring chance. I’d much rather go with the moment of danger created. Think of Grabner’s breakaway against Chicago (the one where he lost the puck). That obviously was tremendous danger and should definitely be counted (and I’d guess such extreme cases are counted regardless). Anyway, as said I’d also prefer a slightly more ample definition, but I really doubt all too many blocked shots would enter. I guess it’s maybe once or twice per game where you think “oh that would have been a really difficult shot to stop if the defender hadn’t blocked that shot”. And still, blocking shots does help…
Blocked Shots Overrated/Underrated
Might depend on someones thoughts on Quality Vs Quantity when it comes to shots.
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Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Each individual blocked shot is a positive event (roughly 200 bks ~ 1 goal prevented). You really have to look carefully here—a guy like Volchenkov always plays the toughs, so he has a reason for lots of blocks, but meanwhile John Erskine does not.
Generally you’ll find stats people saying quantity over quality when it comes to shots and Corsi (actually, many prefer Fenwick, which is Corsi less blocked shots).
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by red army line on Jan 12, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I’d too change the definition of a scoring chance slightly, as I don’t think it requires a shot for "something dangerous happening in front of the net" to be called a scoring chance. I’d much rather go with the moment of danger created. Think of Grabner’s breakaway against Chicago (the one where he lost the puck).
Me too. It’s Grabner’s fault/weakness he lost the puck, but to the extent everyone on the ice gets credit for creating chances like that, it doesn’t matter if the shot connected or not. (Again, that’s probably an extreme case that gets counted anyway, but shots that go just wide for example are often quite dangerous chances aided by other players on the ice and simply not finished by the shooter.)
Lighthouse Hockey: And you shall know us by the fraying of our hips.
Would like to see that separated, it's a pretty different game
I’m not sure how much of a difference it’d make (it’d basically just cut out OT), but still.
Also, there's obvious sample size issues here
For example, Hamonic and others do well in Relative Corsi or even normal Corsi, but your sample sizes here (not your fault) are small enough that a blowout like the rangers game will skew things somewhat.
Of course
Yeah, you’re right here obviously. Then again, I don’t know how much Corsi translates to scoring chances on an individual level. I know the correlation is very high on a team level, but not sure it’s quite as impressive on an individual level.
And regarding blowouts, well, that’s what this team has experienced throughout, though. It’s basically happened once every two weeks this season. Apparently it skews results in some way and it certainly would be wrong to assess a player’s talent based on samples including (so many) blowouts, but that is actually the very big problem when assessing any Isles’ performance this season. It’s just been so bad so often that it’s really tough to get a read on many things.
However, Hamonic and MacDonald for example are at 37% and 38% respectively when not counting the games against Rangers. And A-Mac’s 4-3 in chances against the Canadiens (when they won 4-1) is the only game any of these two guys has had this season with a positive scoring chance differential. Not saying at all that means more than their relatively healthy Corsi figures because from what I saw and from Corsi they’ve been pretty impressive indeed. But perhaps not as good in every game as reported sometimes.
Then again, I don’t know how much Corsi translates to scoring chances on an individual level. I know the correlation is very high on a team level, but not sure it’s quite as impressive on an individual level.
If you get rid of blocks, very impressive.
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by red army line on Jan 12, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Great job Ben, keep up the good work with these breakdown posts.
The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.

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