New Jersey Devils: Picking over carcasses time
by Dominik on Sep 7, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
in This, That & What-Not
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PrintBecause in their infinite wisdom the New Jersey Devils have decided to wed the next 10 years or so of their existence to a very dynamic but very one-dimensional scorer, their GM Lou Lamoriello has a bit of a cap problem on his hands. It's not a Dale Tallon-Blackhawks-sized problem, but it's a problem and, unlike Tallon's successor, the Devils don't have all summer to figure it out.
Being the benevolent Patrick Atlantic rivals that we are, it behooves us to kick the tires on the Good Ship Devil and see if there aren't some carcasses we might take a liking to. (We did this exercise in June with the Hawks and Flyers, but much like Emmett Fitz-Hume attending the reading of a will before that FSO exam...we got nothing.)
LHH-er Altosax suggested one option in comments over the weekend: Trent Hunter for Jamie Langenbrunner, saving Lou about $800k according to CapGeek. Problem is, $800k helps but Lou actually needs to shed almost $3 million to fit under the cap ($2.97 by most calculations). Worse for Lou, Hunter is signed for three more seasons at $2 million per, while next summer Zach Parise will be in need of a major raise, creating more cap issues. As I replied then, Lou probably needs to shed a real salary or two and replace them with near-minimum wage players to make it work.
Devils blog In Lou We Trust has a primer on what they need to do. After the jump, we'll look at the candidates and you tell me if any of them smell like fresh meat you could sink your teeth into.
I'll say one thing right off: If Garth Snow is even remotely considering this carcass, he should be doing it from a position of ruthlessness. Think James Wisniewski for a 3rd or worse. Lou's hand is somewhat tied here -- we know he's not going to give away anything really good, but at minimum he should have to do something generous (like give away a player for peanuts) or cold (like demote a veteran to the minors). There is no reason to be going all charity case for him, even if his influence within the league is mighty.
Brian Rolston, $5,062,500 cap X 2, NTC, 35+ deal, generally spent shell casing
This is the dream scenario for Lou, which is why it isn't happening. Not only is Rolston a shell of his former self, he also has a no-trade clause (How in the hell...), and he is a 35+ contract, which means even if he retired this year or next his cap hit would still be on the books [Edit: and even if he were demoted, all but 100k would be]. This is one of those rare big mistakes Lou makes but few mainstream pundits note, because people like to stick to narrative (Did you know DiPietro has a 15-year deal? Did you know Snow was a backup goalie? I know, right!) and God knows Lou as Genius is the overriding narrative.
Rolston managed 20 goals last year at age 37, which is five more than he scored in Year 1 of his deal. But had Lou not signed Rolston to that contract, he wouldn't have a cap problem at all.
Bryce Salvador, $2.9 million X 2, similar to what the Isles have
Salvador is a nice defenseman. Generally reliable in his own end, a little physical but not intimidating, he'll get the job done. He also makes more than every Isles defenseman outside of Mark Streit and Wis'. Would he be an upgrade to the Isles blueline depth? Probably, depending on who gets shipped out. But with the Islanders eyeing some promising blueline talent in the pipeline, I'm not sure even Salvador would be a fit. Certainly not a "gotta have him" situation.
Dainius Zubrus, $3.4 million X 3, generally devoid of oomph
Okay, sure. You want 31-year-old Zubrus and his 12-17 goals per season in the Islanders C/wing slot because...because why again? His salary and term is simply out of whack. That contract is another chink in the Lou Is Infallible armor. I pass, unless Lou is also throwing in their best prospect in exchange for a Fishsticks jersey.
Jamie Langenbrunner, $2.8 million X 1, Devils outcast but also a Captain America
Nobody who writes literate words really knows what happened with Langenbrunner last season. (Well, maybe the Devils beatwriters have a strong clue, but they're probably wise to tread lightly there.) At 35 he still has something left in the tank, although Parise and Travis Zajac are sure to do just fine without him. His salary alone nearly cures Lou's cap issue. If he was offered to the Isles for virtually free, I'd definitely take him with just one year left on his deal.
Parise, Zajac, David Clarkson, Colin White: Not happening, not happening, not happening
Sure, we've seen in under a 1,000 words how Lou is far from infallible. But he's no idiot. None of the above are leaving Jersey. I'm sure Lou would sooner try to force one of his vets to the minors than hurt his franchise so severely by shedding one of those guys.
Who Do You Like, Baby?
So, those are the main candidates. If you want to play along for more, check out the Devils cap lineup at CapGeek. And do tell: Do you pick over the Devils (and if so, for what?), or do you say "Nah, good luck with your domestic problem, Lou. Oh, and have fun when Ilya cherry-picks through December."?
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I'd take Langenbrunner for a bag of pucks
but there’s no one else on that list I’d give up anything for.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Sep 7, 2010 9:23 AM EDT reply actions
Eh...
Unlike the Flyers or Hawks who had some young, attractive and easily movable pieces, the Devils chips are all not what the Islanders need. Outside of Langenbrunner (Who I would only give up a low draft pick or mid-level prospect for) there aren’t any really good movable pieces available. I’d pass on all who Lou would deal.
Also look at who Saint Lou of the Meadowlands already signed this past offseason and how avoiding these signings he wouldn’t be in this predicament:
Jason Arnott: 1 Year, 4.5 Mil
Johan Hedberg: 1 Year, 1.5 Mil
Henrik Talender: 4 Years, 3.4 Mil
Anton Volchenkov: 6 years, 4.3 Mil
Not signing one of the Arnott/Talender/Volchenkov group and Lou would be golden.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
Unlike the Flyers or Hawks who had some young, attractive and easily movable pieces, the Devils chips are all not what the Islanders need.
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man. (No, I agree. I was just stuck for ideas and it kept coming up.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
I’ve had a bad night and I hate the f@#%$!g Eagles.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
by David Hanssen on Sep 7, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
(Arnott was trade)
Lou’s hand might be tied so much he has to trade a C, but since they’re not deep at C, I think the only guys more protected than Arnott and Zajac are Brodeur, Parise, and Kovalchuk.
by red army line on Sep 7, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Arnott being a trade makes it even worse. It means Lou gave up something other than money (In this case a prospect and a 2nd rounder) to put himself in a cap hole by taking on his 4.5 mil contract.
There are few things in this world I enjoy more than the English getting beaten like a rented mule.
by David Hanssen on Sep 7, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Parise, Zajac, David Clarkson, Colin White: Not happening, not happening, not happening
Sure, we’ve seen in under a 1,000 words how Lou is far from infallible. But he’s no idiot. None of the above are leaving Jersey. I’m sure Lou would sooner try to force one of his vets to the minors than hurt his franchise so severely by shedding one of those guys.
Those are the only ones who garner my interest!
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
Being that there are so few teams with cap space AND an ability to take on more salary, I wouldn’t mind if we didn’t make a deal now and really left Lou up against the wall when it comes to Parise next year.
And yes, I realize Parise will probably be signable next season because of expiring contracts, but I can still dream.
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Langenbrunner also has a NTC.
Not signing one of the Arnott/Talender/Volchenkov group and Lou would be golden.
All of those signings were pretty necessary. He could have perhaps found a better value for a 2C than Arnott at $4.5m, but the FA pickings were pretty slim and Lou does enjoy bringing in former players.
Regardless, he got the rest for decent value, including Volchenkov who many expected to get signed for north of $5m.
Rolston, if I might combine some idioms, is the elephant in the china shop. If there were any contract that could be undone, it’d be that one.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Volchenkov
I figured Volchenkov would get around $5M, but Lou may have made up the difference by giving him that sixth year. That’s a little scary for a guy whose job entails a lot of hitting and blocking shots.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
That and the NTC is probably what secured his services for what he signed for.
That’s a little scary for a guy whose job entails a lot of hitting and blocking shots.
Yeah, we’re all kind of hoping that he won’t be expected to block as many shots as he’s been known to block in the past.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Volchenkov's a player everyone wants,
because he’s a fearless hitter and shot blocker, a real witt type. Problem is, we saw what happens to witt types over the last couple of years. Witt’s shot blocking caught up with him and his career essentially should have been over at the age of 32/33. Been while he was here and playing like he was, he was one hell of a defenseman. That’s why I’m going to love watching Devil games this year on TV when the isles have days off, it’s not everyday you get to watch Volchenkov/Kovalchuk like players on the ice.
Go isles or Go home.
Not interested. Even with a 1st round pick attached
With the exception of Langenbrunner, I wouldn’t want the others even if they threw in a 1st round pick . The others are too expensive and really don’t improve the Isles significantly.
Langenbrunner
Lets examine his minuses first. Oldish, second line guy at best, ok size only, the odometer a little high. Pluses, is a real veteran leader who the Isles don’t have and please don’t give me the Weight story. A rebuild needs leadership and this guy does play with some fire under his boiler. Take him as a salary dump from the Devs and offer no piks, or prospects, and only Hunter who is old, slow, and though a popular Isle is costing us 2M for a few years to go and is certainly not part of the rebuild. Langy is 5 to 10 goals a year better. Lou might go for this because he gets a much younger guy who might get a new life playing in Newark. and Langy has been in Lou’s doghouse since last year
He’s done quite well on the first line the past two years, posting the two best point totals of his entire career. Granted, he’s playing with Parise and Zajac, but it’s not just anyone that can keep up with those two.
He only makes $2.8m, and is quite a value for his salary. He wouldn’t be much of a salary dump, especially if you send back Hunter as it only ends up saving the Devils $800k and would leave them in the exact same predicament of having to dump salary, only now minus their Captain and plus more dead weight they don’t need.
Trent Hunter is 30. He’s not really “much younger,” nor is he young enough to expect much change in his play from a change in scenery.
Langy has been in Lou’s doghouse since last year
This is news to me. How do you know this?
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
doghouse
Langy sat ou a couple of games as I recall and bitched out loud to the press about his treatment this is generally a no no to the coach and in Newark a serious matter.
One game toward the end. That was a beef with Lemaire, not Lou.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Aren’t they two halves of the same soul? ;)
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
I don't know,
I think your undervaluing langenbruner as a whole. He plays on the 1st line and is one hell of a leader. He has a huge tool bag: great 2-way player, great skating speed, never takes any shift or play for that matter off, and is still very productive and a legit top 6 even at 35. He is the guy on that list that is worth every penny of his contract. Sure he might not mean a lot to our future, but just his presence on the ice and team could honestly help out tavares, moulson, ko, and other young players greatly. He’s a more important player for the devils and any team he’s on then you think. Maybe you don’t follow him enough to know, but the CAPTAIN’S presence is felt and definitely earned by how he plays and carries himself (on and off the ice).
Go isles or Go home.
Agreed
If that comment is directed to me, I agree and the drift of my argument is to get him if possible. Getteng rid of Hunter [ who is a good guy] makes the deal even better because the cap-cost hit is small and still allows us to go after another top 6 guy.
Lou will not take on that much salary in return. If he’s ditching Langenbrunner it will be for draft picks (nice, cheap draft picks!) or a prospect that will not hurt the cap this season.
My thought is that he will not be trading anyone, however – he can just buy out Rolston. His cap hit would be two-thirds of that final 5.etc million, spread out over two years… by my rough calculations, this year’s tab would drop to 1,688,343.75 (give or take a nickel), and get them under the cap for this season.
NEXT season, however – heheheheh. That buyout amount counts worse against next year’s cap, based on the savings from the previous year. Here my math is not as certain, but it would put the Devils back over for sure. It would, however, buy Lou a year to figure out how best to pass the problem along to his successor. By that time someone may retire or he can get decent value in trade for a guy like Langenbrunner, rather than get fleeced.
82 days into my latest contract approval process
Rolston is on a 35+ contract so buying him out would only save about $100k in cap space.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
I may be reading this wrong
…but as far as I can see, the buyout provision in the CBA doesn’t affect 35+ contracts any differently. It’s 2/3 of the remaining compensaion over twice the time, and then there’s some voodoo with the savings per year applied to future years of the buyout (which is why Yashin’s buyout cap hit went way up recently).
I’m trying to search my copy of the CBA to find what you’re referring to, elesias. Do you have a page number or section or something?
82 days into my latest contract approval process
page 190 – Section 50.2 c “Actual Club Salary”
(iv) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 of the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Actual Club Salary; plus
and page 203 – section 50.5 (B)
(5) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 of the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), but which Player is not on the Club’s Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster or Non Roster, and regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Averaged Club Salary; plus
Plus, CapGeek has a disclaimer on its buyout calculator:
NOTE: Contracts that fall in the “35-plus” category are not included in the buyout calculator because the player’s cap hit remains unchanged even after a buyout.
I think you’re probably right about the compensation not changing due to the age of the player, but the 35+ rule means that the salary still counts against the cap, regardless.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
What you might see, if Salvador and/or Zubrus can’t be moved, is Rolston sent through waivers. A team might find his contract more palatable if they only had to pay half of it.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
thanks
It’s hard enough to read that thing without having to put together sections from 15 pages apart! But if you will indulge me one more question – if Rolston clears waivers and is sent down, wouldn’t that also only save 100,000 on the cap hit? Or would the Devils simply hope to re-entry waiver him and hope against hope that he was claimed?
82 days into my latest contract approval process
Np. I had to look it up myself.
Yes, the latter. Sending him down and keeping him down actually makes it worse, because they’d only be saving 100k and would need to fill his spot with a guy making at least the league minimum. The idea would be that another team would find Rolston and his two years left at $2.5m much easier to swallow and would pick him up off of re-entry waivers.
I don’t expect that Lou would go that route unless he had an agreement with someone that they’d pick him up upon re-entry… otherwise, as you say, it’s just hoping against hope.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Ack, nice catch mikb
I gotta add that to the Rolston section
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
credit where it's due
This is elesias’ catch. I only asked the question, elesias had the correct answer regarding demotion and buyouts for 35+ players.
82 days into my latest contract approval process
Credit where it’s due… I Googled it and got the pertinent information from a post on HFBoards :)
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
LOL
…which was probably more coherent than the CBA itself.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
It doesnt work like that when you send a player through waivers, youre thinking of re-entry waivers.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 7, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want any of them due to our lack of real open spots and costs of their salaries compared to their performance,
except for langenbruner and he’s not going anywhere this season. Next season he’s probably gone though unless lou can work some magic and make the rolston contract disappear by then to open up parise cap space.
Go isles or Go home.
Except for Langenbrunner....
Of course this deal is unlikely, but it makes more sense than the daily so called rumours we get exposed to.
no "sympathy for the Devil"
No thanks Lou, anyone we may want is NOT available, so Lou……no sympathy here.
I don't think Clarkson is untouchable
He’s had 3 years and his top tally was 17G in 08-09. He’s a good physical player but at a $2.6 cap hit I think Lou would consider it. You won’t get him at fire sale prices and I’m not sure who we would have to send over in return but I certainly think he would be in play. Lou would rather get rid a highly paid vet but if he gets despirate enough…
In all fairness, Clarkson missed 36 games last season due to injury. Had he played all 82 he was on pace to score 19-20 goals, and at one point before his injury he was on target for about 25.
Last year was supposed to be his breakout season, and he showed promising signs early that it would be, but the injury really derailed it. I don’t think he’s untouchable either, though he is a fan favorite, but I think he gets at least one more season to show if he’s grown into more than just a boxer on skates.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Rolston Contract
Wow that contract is terrible!!! I remember thinking it was bad when it went down but now after this summer of cautious spending it looks even worse. I don’t seen anyone that would work unless they are gifted to us.
oh I know….how about Nielsen for Langenbrunner!!! :-)
oh I know….how about Nielsen for Langenbrunner!!! :-)
You are now dead to me, mdelbags. Dead I say!
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
That was for you Dom
I should have asked if it was possible to be banned from a blog before I posted that though :-)
And it's deserved ;)
(Well, me being provoked about Frans is deserved, anyway. Ol’ Frans is innocent in this.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Even better
Nielsen and Gervais for Langenbrunner and Salvador, 2nd round pick 2011, 3rd round pick 2012
Nielsen and Gervais for Langenbrunner and Salvador, 2nd round pick 2011, 3rd round pick 2012, and Kovalchuk
by red army line on Sep 7, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see...
Us needing a 35 year old as part of a rebuild. Next year’s draft is supposed to suck hard so I don’t really see draft picks being all that attractive. Don’t get me wrong I’m sure there will be a couple of top end guys but the Devils won’t be drafting anywhere near where the talent is. I would say that I wouldn’t be willing to help the Devils out without a very good prospect being attached to the deal from their end.
Devils are 3 Million over cap
Please correct me if my numbers are off. Point is that all of the above ramblings mean something real, the Devils are going to move personel as part of the Kovy contract. Stand by for the details.
Salvador
Salvador for Gervais I would absolutely do. The defense prospects are not going to be with the team this year anyway. I say pull this and worry about fitting in De Haan and Hamonic next year. If you really want to get them up you can always deal off someone at the deadline.
Not a bad idea, I like it. But who are you benching to start the season on d then?
I’d love salvador as a physical force and shutdown d-man, he’d help our depth a lot. It saves the devils up to $2mil(if they put bruno in the minor, little less if they keep him on the roster).
Obvious Top 4: Streit, Wiz, Martinek, Eaton,
Mix of bottom 2(till we find out): Hillen, a-mac, Jurcina,
I had a-mac and hillen starting, but with the addition of salvador, I’d take a-mac off then and have a roster of:
Streit/Wiz
Martinek/Eaton
Salvador/Hillen
Reserve: a-mac/jurcina
I like it alot. No real big questions anymore on the starting d and we have a lot more size and phsyicality and better pk with salvador’s addittion. Not sure the devils would trade us salvador because we are inner-division, but I love that trade.
minors: Hamonic, Reese, Kohn,
Go isles or Go home.
Salavdor fills a lot of the wholes are d had.
In front of the net clearer, depth shutdown d for the penalty kill and at full strength, some much needed physical play, some much needed physical presence, and some good size.
Go isles or Go home.
Age!!!
Salavdor is just a year younger than Sutton and slightly smaller. Why would we take him when we had a shot at Andy and declined. In fact he apparently wanted to return to the Island.
If they could have gotten Sutton back then they should have jumped on it. But working from the standpoint of whats available now and what can be done to make this team better today there is no doubt that switching Gervais for Salvador improves the team right away. If things are not going well with him or any of the other new acquisitions or if we just get a great offer at the deadline we can roll one of these guys for a pick or prospect. I’m not saying Salvador is the best we can do but for this season coming up, if we could pull him in cheap for Gervais then do it.
agreed but.......
Why would Lou possibly agree? Gervais to most teams would be a call-up from their AHL affiliate. A deal like that would be a salary dump+ giveaway. Lou has made some big mistakes example Rolston. but I don’t see him as Santa Claus, but I would love it too- make room for my Xmas stocking!!
If they could have gotten Sutton back then they should have jumped on it.
There is no if- they definitely could have signed him. Like altosax said, he wanted to come back here- he specifically said so.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 8, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
lol,
Garth on the phone with Lou:
“we are giving you a franchise goalie, we guarantee you that he is fully healthy this year.”
“Uhhuh”
“Rolston, why not”
“Uhhuh, perfect successor to brodeur and locked up for years!”
“Uhhuh”
“Uhhuh”
“You want him to pass a physical first huh? Ummm, what will this physical pertain? Jumping Jacks? A few sit-ups?”
“Treadmill running? Since when the hell do you see goalies running around or skating much on the ice? That’s BS!, Deal’s off then!”
Hang up.
“I hope he still considers the trade”
lol
Go isles or Go home.
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