Islanders Training Camp Battles: The Wings
by Dominik on Sep 13, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
in New York Islanders Previews
Email
Print
Not "Wings" like the distasteful hockey team or the foul band, but "wings" as in right or left.
The Islanders have plenty of them with completely uncertain futures and ceilings: We know Kyle Okposo is a spirited part of the core, but we don't know how high his game will fly. We know Matt Moulson is a very solid two-way player, but we don't know how far back his shooting percentage will drop (if at all) after that 30-goal breakout. We know Blake Comeau shows flashes of sniperhood, of a willingness to go to the net and shoot, but we don't know if the lessons of last year's second half will carry over to this year's first.
...And onward it goes. Continuing our series, here's a look at the wings with a fighting chance for breaking camp with a full-time job at the NHL level.
The Men With Nice Cars
First, the incumbents...
Kyle Okposo -- Can't touch this.
Matt Moulson -- Certainly can't touch this for one more year. I am confident he will be as valuable at both ends as he was last year; whether luck drops him below 30 goals (more likely) or above 30 (less likely, but possible) probably will be a bigger factor than it should be when determining his next salary.
Blake Comeau -- 11 goals in his final 18 games. Was that closer to the real Comeau, or just another late-season tease?
Josh Bailey* -- Always with the asterisk, because he grew up a center, he was drafted as a center, and his future is likely at center. But so far in the NHL, he's been better on the wing. And the Isles, at the moment, are deep at the pivot.
Trent Hunter -- Forever suffering inflated fan expectations after his 25-goal rookie year, Hunter was and remains a steady two-way, third-line guy with a deceptive shot. Three more seasons on his deal, too.
Doug Weight -- Never listed as a wing, but that's essentially what he's become: A 5-on-5 winger who can take faceoffs and man a point on the powerplay. The captain will likely serve a variety of roles as needed and as health permits.
The Men Shopping for Nice Cars, but not 12-Month Gym Contracts
These guys will absolutely see NHL time this year, quite possibly from opening night.
PA Parentau -- He's got a one-way deal and a European out clause, so you have to believe he'll be given every shot to make the team and become a Moulson-lite.
Trevor Gillies -- He showed last year that he can fill the need for fire and crazy when the Islanders' spine needs a little firming up. But he's still an enforcer, on a two-way deal. The addition of ol' AHL teammate Zenon Konopka also fills some of that need, so Gillies will always be a press box and waiver candidate.
Matt Martin -- Highly anticipated by fans, who love his energetic pinball style. He wants to bring some of what Gillies and Konopka bring, except with more skill and less need to fight. It may still be too early for him, though. Camp will tell.
Jon Sim -- On a two-way deal, which is more appropriate to his contribution as an AHL scorer and an NHL agitator and net crasher. May be worth keeping around for Rangers nights just to mitigate the soul-sucking debasement to hockey named Sean Avery. Otherwise, his scoring in Bridgeport would be valuable.
The Boys Who Stir Our Dreams, But Should Stay away from Car Lots for Now
Jesse Joensuu -- Following in the line of Isles Nordic wingers who capture our hopes, this season is probably make-or-break for the big Finn Named Jesse. Is he a scorer with a big body, or a big body who can sometimes score? He had wrist surgery at the end of last year; if healthy, maybe now's the time he seizes an NHL job?
David Ullstrom -- Signed over the summer, word is he's liked by the Isles. Has experience "playing with men," so maybe he makes an unlikely jump right away.
Rhett Rakhshani -- Since he took the college route, he's already used to bigger bodies. Got a post-NCAA audition with Bridgeport last year and could very plausibly earn his way into NHL appearances sometime this year.
Nino Niederreiter -- Oh, people like him, and we've written plenty about him. Lots of rumors float in either way about the Isles plans for him. Time, and camp, will tell.
Kirill Kabanov -- Still smaller frame and still a lot to learn. He's surely destined to return to Moncton, but it's worth remembering he was once anticipated in the top 5 of his class with Taylor Hall and Tyler Seguin. (Ironically, a year later that Top 5 included Nino and excluded Kirill.)
Andy Hilbert -- More of a center, traditionally, though his faceoff rate when he was last with the Isles was awful. He played a lot of wing, and on a two-way deal he might see time with the Isles this year.
Kirill Petrov -- Wild card, and by this posting it may already be determined that he's staying in the KHL for another year. But I wrote this on Friday, so...
* * *
Many candidates, few openings. That's what camp's all about, baby!
94 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
so if the top 6 guys are locked
then I would like to see Martin as the 7th guy
8th is open, Nino, Joensuu, or Parentau
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
When you say 8th, are you talking about 4th line minutes role? Because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want Nino in the nhl if he was only playing 10mins/game there.
Go isles or Go home.
thats a good point
much rather Joensuu for limited minutes
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 14, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
a bunch of question marks but also...
a bunch of talent, albeit much of it among kids who likely aren’t quite ready.
another BUT is – if just a couple of these kids pan out right away – and it does happen – this can be a completely different team.
one thing about bailey. i absolutely still see him as a solid two-way centericeman in the brent sutter mold. the kid is 20, literally still getting bigger and stronger, and has excellent passing ability. allowed to settle in with the talent on the wings already here and on the way, he will amass a ton of assists. no more joba-ing. they need to put him back at center and leave him there.
Thats good......"No More JOBA-ing"
Bailey really is just a nice player. He’s got a swagger to him also….do you notice that? He really comes off as being very confident I think….that can prove to be a very nice leadership quality in some players.
Not to go too far off on a tangent here but I think that is something that you can see in a few of the younger players (bailey, tavares, okposo)…they really seem to recognize and embrace responsibility. They seem to all say the right things but more importantly it sounds and seems like they back it up with hard work.
Tavares’ early interest in PA issues is just one example….Bailey’s seemingly gets physically stronger each time you see him (fitness work probably yes). And with Okposo…al you have to do is listen to another GM or another Coach from around the league and you know all you need to about his prospects and reputation.
FB4Real
"Past Performance Is Not A Guarantee For Future Success"
by Michael C. Ryan on Sep 13, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
another thing about bailey ....
is the decision 2 years ago to keep him on the big club and leave him here was a brilliant stroke i think. many smart people thought bailey would have been better served staying in bridgeport, even last year, but i think the kid has steadily developed. the experience it gives him and how it helps cohesiveness form with his mates is invaluable. it’s gave him a big head start. he hasn’t scored a ton and there have been a couple of valleys, but that’s okay. he’s held his own and his development is obvious. snow knew the kid could handle it and keeping him here was the right decision for everyone.
okay, thanks for listening.
by dose on Sep 13, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he has developed fine at NHL level
and also like the decision to play him right away with the Isles
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 14, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
On the contrary
I think if you reread it (dose’s comment, I mean, assuming your reply), he sounds all in favor of the way they did it.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Bailey's quiet swagger
I interpret it as a guy who is not easily impressed/phased by the pomp and glitz and glam. Well-grounded. That sort of solid character they were after when they drafted him.
They really do seem to be going for talents who aren’t knuckleheads (a certain Kirill possibly excepted — although obviously at that draft slot it was a no-brainer).
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
definitely.
but with all those good character guys around, they being the dominant players who are setting the tone, what could be a better environment to bring a kid like Kabanov in to than that?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 14, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know — I suppose a more veteran-rounded lineup? Not that I’m complaining. It was a great pick, and if the kid is going to figure it out, he might as well figure it out here. And kick ass.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Isles have some great vets. I dont see how just there being more of them would necessarily help anyhting. I do however think that Kabanov seeing other guys right near his age with contracts and getting top minutes could hit home with him. That really could be me. What are they doing that I need to do?
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 14, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Or (playing devil’s advocate) he could see young guys making it and think, “Hey, this is automatic.”
I don’t think there’s any magic formula though. Every kid, every human, needs the right mentor or veteran(s) to help them see how it works at the right time. Most teams have them; it’s just a matter of whether a kid is open to it and if the connection is made when the opportunity is there. If he can’t pick up anything from watching Doug Weight or Trent Hunter, he probably needs more time anyway.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Strength and size was the only thing I could see that was holding him back starting at center,
And I agree with all above about Bailey, he is more a center then winger, and without a doubt a better playmaker there. But the problem is schremp. Schremp becomes ultimately useless at a winger position because he couldn’t play the position that well or effectively last year when he was tested their, where as bailey is so good that he adjusted to the position fine. But Bailey is without question a true 2-way passing/playmaking center, and at wing his full potential will never be achieved or seen(he could be kind of nielsen-like, with more goal scoring ability). So the question in the long run is, is the addittion of schremp at center worth the possible game-altering and hurting bailey as a center’s future worth it? Schremp has potential, but I don’t see schremp having near the same top 6 all-around center potential that bailey has in him. Sure, schremp’s offensive skills are good, but he seems like a one tool guy in that sense and because of that reason I am not sure he is suited to be a top 6 center, possibly a 3rd line center or he needs to work on his overall game. Schremp doesn’t have size on his size, schremp doesn’t have defensive intelligence or prowess on his side, schremp doesn’t have a physical edge,. Thus concluding schremp is a one-tool/one-way(but not complete) player, that if he doesn’t become exceptional at it (like becoming a 60-70pts center), then I see him having no reason to be in the top 6, let alone while taking a future key role player on our team’s position and possibly hurting his overall maturity and future play at the position. Thus leading to my reasoning for:
-Trading schremp if he can’t produce those proposed numbers next season early or by mid-season the latest.
-Trading or throwing schremp in the minors at the beginning of the season, and giving nino the open spot in the top 9 or Petrov(if possible) or bumping Martin/Parenteau from a 3rd/4th line role to a 2nd and play it by ear. Even maybe bumping Nielsen into the 2nd line center and throwing bailey as 3rd line center might be an interesting way to help Nielsen make the top 6 forwards progress better and arguably help Bailey progress better by playing with a veteran(hunter) or 2 on the 4th to help him out with his game more.
Either way, unless shcremp has a breakout season, I want him off the time or at best thrown in a 3rd line role/minutes spot, but ultimately I see his future as a depth player/3rd-liner(at best) in the nhl unless everything clicks for him.
Go isles or Go home.
Schremp
If we move Bailey back to center there is no doubt Schremp becomes very expendible. It might be better to trade him for a natural winger. Someone could use his shootout skills at a minimum. If it is true that Bailey has more long term potential at center and should be moved back then we need to move Schremp out this season. We can take a young winger back or maybe a pick but we are hurting at wing and could use some help. He might even be good to trade to a Cap hurt team where we can pick up a talent (likely overpriced but we can pay it) to help sure up our offense before the prospects are ready to move in. Calgary is over the cap right now, maybe we could get Niklas Hagman (2 years left at $3mil a piece).
Moulson
I am confident he will be as valuable at both ends as he was last year
From watching the games, Moulson didn’t stand out to me as that good defensively. I went back and read his report card, where you also mentioned his “smart, two-way play,” but there was no discussion of it in the comments. Maybe I missed something but I didn’t see it. Is there some advanced stat that supports this? Or do I need to get my eyes checked?
By the way, do you realize 11 people gave Moulson a grade of 1. Them are some high expectations!
Moulson isn't a nielsen or bailey or stand-out 2-way forward, but he is definitely responsible in his own zone if you watch and his numbers somewhat hint to it.
Go isles or Go home.
Yeah, what Ozzy said — he’s not a bulldog hustling back come hell or high water like Nielsen, but his results are solid: Behind The Net has him drawing tougher competition most of the time and doing quite well with it relative to most of his teammates.
Part of that may just be age and pro experience, but point being he didn’t cherry-pick his way to 30 goals. (I’d also add that wingers are harder to observe and measure on the defensive end than centers, unless you get to see the full ice for each game, which I don’t get via TV.)
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Moulson's value is scoring
his D isn’t a liability but it isn’t awesome either. with time he may get somewhat better
but he puts the puck in, and I believe is important to JT on the PP
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 14, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
1. thank’s for putting, “someone’s knocking on the door…” in my head – deeeek!
2. i still want to see if big double J can take the next step, could be his last chance with us to do so.
3. with kabanov likely in juniors again, i think it’s ok that petrov stay in russia this year, he’s more likely to get out of his khl deal with only 1 year left, and if kabanov then makes the team, his transition is all that much easier
4. i just cant wait for this season to start again, i’m sick of talking, want to watch them!!!
a profound return... i still love sammy octoberfest :-)
Nice Wings reference
I’ve stated my season’s philosophy in the Defenceman thread. Bring ‘em along, but don’t force them. It’s when you try to force something that doesn’t quite fit that you break it. I could not care less about the playoffs this year. I just want to see the supporting cast brought along properly, although before the core gets too old would be nice, please and tyvm.
This applies mainly to those I consider to be the irreplaceable parts of the “Contender” that I believe we have in the making. By this I mean, Nino, Martin, Kabanov and Petrov, with Brock Nelson possibly in there, although his is not a question I would expect to be asked for at least three years, maybe more, but I haven’t seen him play so I know nothing about him.
Players like Ullstrom, Rakhshani, Hilbert, Parenteau, JJ, Gillies and Sim should get the time their play deserves and the team’s immediate needs mandate. Frankly, I note with extreme interest the absence of any mention of Frans and RSH in your list of guys with nice cars. IMO, RSH fits more in the category of getting the ice time he earns (I know this is blasphemy around here, but, meh), and the reality is we don’t pay Frans enough for him to afford a nice car, although we for damn certain better remedy that before the year is out.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Sep 13, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Please note that
I just violated my own first rule of responding, by challenging, in a response to bob’s post, something that Dom did, namely leaving Frans and RSH out of his list of guys with nice cars. I will watch this in the future.
Oh, and Trent Hunter belongs in the list of guys who should earn their time based on their play. He may have a nice car, but he leaves it in the garage a bit too much for my taste. Maybe some super unleaded to get him off the schneid a bit more?
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Sep 13, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Frans & Detlef's cars
They may have very nice cars, now or in the near-term… though on Frans’ salary, he may not be able to afford the nice car AND the nice house, not on the north shore of Long Island. But the thread is specifically about wingers. Frans and RSH are centermen.
82 days into my latest contract approval process
Well, duh
Sorry. My only excuse is that it’s Monday.
by Nova Scotia Isles Fan on Sep 13, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
And it's excused!
Especially since I’ve been on a boat all weekend (and including Monday…back in the office Tuesday), so you have my sympathies.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
still a top6 away
Great summary, nothing to argue about except Rhett still reminds me of our smallish pre rebuild past. Of course you can name small players who have done well – start with Montreal, but there are even more that never got out of the minors. The real story is about the Isles low budget and has that kept Snow from doing on offense, what he did on defense? Last year he implied that Wang gave him shopping money. So he is really being a careful shopper or the story is Bull. I think most of us think the latter. The point is that lots of us think that a top6 guy up front is needed as a catalyst to help develop the young talent and make it a realistic wish that we are in say the hunt for a playoff spot that Snow says we are. Weight is a good player and teacher on many levels, but he is not the answer for many reasons that to most of us is obvious.
Last year he implied that Wang gave him shopping money. So he is really being a careful shopper or the story is Bull.
I can’t speak to their budget, or at least where the line is. But they very clearly have less spending money, or rather money to blow on mistakes, than other teams. But I do buy that money is there and Snow’s been careful about using it. The pretty reliably reported Snow bids for Martin and Volchenkov this summer indicate that to me.
Whereas on the forward end, I didn’t see anyone available this summer I’d really trust taking my millions as a top-six, except for Frolov who also has red flags. (I accept Frolov is no dream, but I’d bet every available winger had similar limitations or flags.) Several teams can spend to the cap just because the money’s there. Wherever the Islanders’ internal cap is, they clearly won’t spend to it except when they think it really provides bang for buck.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Pulling the trigger.........
on any deal is always a shot, even when the GM does all the homework. [That’s how they earn their pay and keep their jobs.] Dom I accept your observation and understand the "bang for the buck philosophy. However you don’t know in the end until you take the shot which often involves piks, or prospects or trades. and the intangibles of how well players would have performed if you had not traded them away. Certainly this is a very complex and risky business which you correctly observe the NYI are more careful about even if the money is available. The question is when do we act like the rest of the league? Part of being competetive is rebuild + the extra pieces. Many say it all gets down to the two thousand pound guerilla in the room which is the ARENA>
Totally agree
I absolutely think it’s the arena, or rather the uncertainty symbolized by the arena. Wang’s plunked a lot of money down for the team the last decade — some of it generously but foolishly. I’ve no idea what he has left now, but basically my continued fandom rides a lot on the hope (which may be quite naive) that when the arena is settled he’ll be more willing to spend.
But it sure seems to me like they timed this ground-up rebuild’s maturation to coincide with what they hoped would be a new arena. In the meantime, I’m not terribly bothered by the budget-conscious nature because much of the rest of the league is over-leveraged and spending foolishly anyway. Teams are only now starting to come around to the reality of the cap.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
Of course you can name small players who have done well… but there are even more that never got out of the minors.
You can say the exact same thing about big players.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
But smaller players are at a disadvantage and need a bigger bag of tricks(skills) to be considered for some nhl time or an nhl job.
Example: Joensuu: How much would we still be talking about a forward(like-joensuu) that can’t produce well or skate well or find his offensive tools to take any major maturation steps in the minors after 2 full ahl seasons, but has potential if he was 5’10’’ 180lbs? I’m pretty sure joensuu wouldn’t be talked about at all then. But he is 6’4’’ with decent size and because of his size, he has a decent physical asset and solid checking possibilities, can possibly be a nice-blocking asset on the penalty-kill, or even enforcer possibilities (if he wants to be a fighter or add it to his repetoir because of his size). You can’t say the same about undersized forwards, they have to work that much harder to earn an nhl spot. It’s the honest truth.
Go isles or Go home.
doesnt change what I was saying… you can change small to big in that sentence and it is still true.
IE: You can name big players who have done well… but there are even more that never got out of the minors.
Big players have their stereotypical minuses, too… slower, lumbering, not as graceful or quick, etc.
You say “undersized forwards have to work that much harder to earn an nhl spot” However, when we are at the point where guys who are 6 feet tall+ are being called “undersized”, that changes the factuality of a statement like that. If youre talking about guys who are 5’7" or something, Id be more likely to agree. But being 6’5" does not make you a BETTER hockey player than someone who is, say. 6’1"
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
size matters
For a team to succeed with smaller players ex. the Habs, there are other large forwards, defense and enforcers around to at least keep the opposition looking around. Up to now the Isles have fielded a smallish team without many bigger players to keep it honest. This season we have gotten a little bigger and tougher but in my opinion we are still vulnerable to the Prongers nd Pheneufs who took a piece out of Tavares and Ok without retaliation and I think affected their seasons.
Retaliation
I agree somebodys go to step up to these guys. JT is got to be protected
by Torch7 on Sep 13, 2010 8:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Which is why we need guy like Wisnieski and Martin
Honestly i can care less if Wiz throws some dirty hits, as long as those hits are against guys like Pronger who are elbowing Tavares in the head
In Garth we trust!
if martin makes the team
then that could mean the possibility of Martin, Konopka, Gilles, and Wisnieski on the ice at the same time
thats like the perfect storm for a street fight lol
In Garth we trust!
even the flyers would piss themselves
boy i cant wait for those inter-division games
In Garth we trust!
esepcially with our division
The Atlantic Division probably has the best division rivalries in the NHL
In Garth we trust!
Yeah, Devils/Pens/Rangers/Flyers/Isles is a hell of a combo,
We have the Flyers D and “goons”, the rangers rivalry (the most hated team in the nhl), the Devils (with the greatest goalie of all time in net and a great d and superstar Parise/now kovy + others too), the Pens (cooke + other “tough” guys + malkin/crosby-the best scoring duo on 1 team in the nhl), and us (a young team with something to prove and a 4-year dynasty that was arguably had the greatest team in nhl history, as shown by the dynasty and beating of the gretzky/messier/coffey/anderson/kurri edmonton team)
Go isles or Go home.
by OzzyFan on Sep 14, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The hits are always in retaliation. Every controversial hit he had was to protect a teammate. He is not dirty for the sake of dirty like an Avery.
im aware of that, which is why i like him
I dont get why people call avery “dirty” though
Hes an annoying little overpaid jackass, but the things he does arnt necessarily dirty like in the vain of Cooke or Pronger, theyre just little things to get under your skin
In Garth we trust!
Semantics, but I view diving as "dirty"
Anything that completely undermines the character and purpose of the game falls in my “dirty” book. So that includes intent to injure through illegal/cheap hits, as well as feigning injury/victimization so as to dupe the refs and bring the entire sport into the gutter.
But I’d say Avery does lots of dirty little stuff that isn’t necessarily career-threatening but is totally cheap. He’s the type of player who would chop you in the jewels. Some people think that’s fine if you can get away with it; I think it’s spineless.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
this is true
I see it as cheap, not dirty. but i guess it doesnt matter what you call it lol
In Garth we trust!
I will stop at no pretzel of twisted logic to find another way to bash Avery.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
You remember when avery speared witt with his stick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J8k3Azx60I . Avery has cooled off over the years somewhat, but he still does dirty stuff and does some things that are stupid intagilbes which is why he shouldn’t be in the league (remember in the playoffs a couple years ago when he used his hands to block Brodeur’s site of shots and plays?). Avery does have some 3rd line talent, other then that he’s a joke of a player and a horrible example of a professional hockey player. And he belongs in a category with cooke. Not sure about pronger, arguably he is still one of the best all around d-men in the nhl and MOST of his “hits and moves” aren’t meant to hurt or demonize the game, but more to agitate. But Pronger does throw an occassional questionable hit.
Go isles or Go home.
No matter how much guys tend to cling to that, it simply is not true in every case. Trust me.
I didnt say it didnt matter at ALL, thtas why you dont se 5’2" guys all over the NHL. But the idea that, say, a 6’3" guy is inherently better than a 6"0" guy is just stupid.
Id take Theo Fleury over Mitch Fritz any day.
And Id take Trottier (under 6 feet tall FYI) over the 6’5" Oleg Kvasha.
Size is not all you guys make it out to be.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 14, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
We can badger about this all day,
bottom line is what most of us are trying to tell you is that size matters in hockey. It’s a lot harder to come into the nhl as a 5’9’’ 180lbs player compared to being a 6’4’’ 215lbs player with the exact same skill sets. It’s just the facts. I see no idea why Fleury vs Fritz argument is brought up, there are exceptions to every rule. But you have to remember, very few people under 5’11’’/5’10’’ have the skillset and potential to make up for their lack of size to get to the nhl. But they are out there, there just aren’t many of those players. Martin St. Louis is an example. The nhl isn’t a small players league. It’s a league built for 6’+ 200lbs+ players, and because of the size of some players, the physical demands of the game, and the ability to shutdown and stop MOST smaller players over bigger players is another reason why this is. Bigger players have an advantage over smaller players in this game, and not going by some of the rediculous comparisons you are making (Kvasha and trottier? Really? Not to mention the size differences of players back then to now, the whole profiling of them together is rediculous in itself, That’s kind of like comparing Jagr and Park). ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, a bigger player is ALWAYS wanted more then a smaller player with the same skill sets and has more potential to make it and become successful in the nhl. End of discussion.
Go isles or Go home.
And no,
a slight difference as in 6’ to 6’2’’ or 6’2’’ and 6’4’’ is negligible. But as you get around the 5’11’’ mark and below it gets harder to crack the nhl. And the difference between what we are discussing, the difference between 6’4’’ or even 6’2’’ and 5’10’’ makes a big impact and difference.
Go isles or Go home.
the difference between 6’4’’ or even 6’2’’ and 5’10’’ makes a big impact and difference.
It DOES NOT not make you any better of a hockey player. That is the part you guys keep glossing over! You have to already BE a great hockey player- then yeah, size can help. but this recent tendency for people to think that a kid an inch taller is incrementally “better” than a kid an inch smaller is ridiculous and wrong.
Yeah size matters when you comare 5’7" to 6’4".
But when you compare 6’1" to 6’3" what matters is who the better hockey player is.
And I honestly do not care if you believe that or not, because it is true regardless.
If you want to believe that size maters, you make a team of Mitch Fritz and Kvashas and Ill make one of Trottier, Bossy, etc.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 14, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Just for example to prove a point,
How many people are in the nhl that are below 5’10’’? Then if you want(which you shouldn’t have to since the point is already proven), how many people in the nhl are over 6’2’’?
Go isles or Go home.
Sorry OzzyFan. If you think size is the most important thing, you are wrong. If you think it is simply a factor along with many other things such as skating, hockey IQ, decision making, agility, etc then you are right.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Sep 14, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
What he saying about size and so am I is.........
That if you can all of the above things you list and can get it in a bigger package rather than a smaller one the GM’s of the league will choose you. On the other hand if you have all those things and are smaller , the bar for your success is higher. Same in football, where a small player who becomes a star is always pointed out for his unique ability considering his size. Some argue that baseball is special because size is not that big a deal.
Thank you,
I never said it was the most important thing, but it has a decent effect. Say you have 2 people in the minors, same tools/same skills/same play, the 2 players are 5’10’’ 180lbs and 6’3’’ 210lbs, the 6’3’’ player is making the team and the 5’10’’ guy is not. THAT is what I am trying to get through as altosax says.Yes, skills and smarts are a big part of it, no question, but size is still an impacting thing in hockey and decision making.
Obviously I’d take a Martin St.Louis over a Boogaard, but I’d also take a Komisarek over Meyer. Komi and Meyer have ultimately the same game, but meyer is slightly better offensively and Komi is 6inches taller then him and bigger. Komi’s size allows him to throw harder hits, block more(or a wider range of) shots, overpower forwards, and more. The only difference there is ultimately size, and that’s what makes komisarek a top shutdown d-man and meyer a 6th/7th man. Size matters, especially when people have the same game and skill sets. If meyer was 6’1’’ 215lbs, I’m sure everyone here would think he would be an nhl starter no question and probably even a top 4 guy because of his game. But he isn’t because size makes a difference in the nhl.
Go isles or Go home.
On Moulson
In an interview with Newsday a couple of days ago Moulson said that he has been working out all summer and is the strongest hes ever been, and hes aiming to score 40 goals this season because he feels he still needs to prove how good he is.
In Garth we trust!
If you checked the isles site recently. On the charity fishing trip photo, I thought he looked pretty big.
He wasn’t small to begin with last season at 6’1’’ 205 anyway. lol. That new strength is definitely gonna help his game skating wise, checking wise, and dirty goal wise when he likes to play in front of the net.
Go isles or Go home.
More strength/size will only help
I think he did it because he likes to hang around the front of the net, which is something you need to be strong to d, and he said that he does not plan to change his playing style, so him being bigger/stronger will help him fend off those pesky crease clearers
Hopefully he can throw some hits a little bit more now, lord knows we need everyone to hit more
In Garth we trust!
Barring trades or injuries:
In order our forwards will be:
Moulson/Tavares/KO
Bailey/Schremp/Comeau
Parenteau/Nielsen/Hunter
Martin/Konopka/Weight
In reality/imo they should be:
Moulson/Tavares/Okposo
Parenteau/Bailey/Comeau
Schremp(3rd)-(Nino-2nd)-Petrov(1st)/Nielsen/Hunter
Martin/Konopka/Weight
I’m high on petrov for the size he adds to our team/3rd line and the skills he could have that should be a very nice complement to nielsen and could be a nice combo for the season. Same as nino(nice skills and good size) with a smaller size. And I think nino/petrov in a less mins/game role on the 3rd line, while still getting some solid time would allow him to adjust to the nhl easier while being helped out and playing with 2 seasoned vets, instead of maturing with players that are maturing(finding themselves) too. Schremp I would give the spot otherwise because I think he deserves a look, but should earn 2nd line minutes before he’s given them off the bat.
And I like Parenteau on the 2nd line because he is an offensive guy(that in his brief stint in the nhl looked nice on a sad offensive team and blewup the minors stats wise) and should be a nice complement to bailey’s skills and helping comeau reach his max offensive potential(if he can).
Go isles or Go home.
No
“For many players, training camp is the same song and dance. However, when the Islanders open up camp on September 17th, there will be something that they haven’t been used to in quite some time – a healthy Rick DiPietro.”
http://nyifyi.blogspot.com/
Go isles or Go home.
Schremp
Almost everybody is counting on Schremp to come thru based on his late season stats and shoot out skills, Problem for him and many others with good stick-handling abilities and a quick shot is getting it off in tough traffic down low like the champ in that area Ovy. Some try to be a Bossy who could score from close in due to a great hockey sense and a very hard and quick release shot. So far Schremp has not been the first round pik success that was envisionaged for him because he has not been tough in traffic. where as he’s a natural in shoot outs.
Why no talk of Tavares/Bailey/Moulson?
I don’t hear anyone talking about the fact that Tavares does not skate well enough to be a center in the NHL. He cannot keep up with either the big centerman or the small quick center most teams put out there. I don’t question his scoring ability, but his assists do not come from passes… they come from rebounds. In my opinion he helps the team a lot more by moving to the wing and allowing Bailey to use all the tools he has.
Bailey is a much better centerman and has the setup ability to go with smooth skating and defensive responsibility you need from a centerman no matter what line they are on. So why is there no talk of moving Tavares to wing with Bailey centering and Moulson on the other side? This frees Shremp to center Okposo and Comeau and allows Frans to be the defensive shut-down centerman we need. If we can match some talent and skating ability to play with Frans we can go three deep with scoring potential on each line. This is where we need to take a good look at the kids. Hunter may be a stopgap, but he has no wheels and Parenteau doesn’t look to have the wheels either. Hopefully a kid will surprise us in camp that can fill this role of both a responsible defensive player with wheels and scoring ability.
really?
Did you watch the games last year? Tavares’s assists came from excellent passes just as or more often as they came from rebounds. He has an uncanny ability to see the ice and this ability makes him essential at center.
(said in the Steve Somers voice)
I agree with both of you.
He is a great passer but he is not a great skater. I would even call him slow.
I agree about Taveras
I thought it was just me, but he is kinda slow skating. No doubt he has a high skill set, but man he could use a few power skating classes!! Im sure he will be a high scorer, but imagine how much better he’d be with more speed.
Skating is Tavares's main weakness, but this was his 1st year and he will progress.
Give him time, he is going to be a great superstar whether his skating improves or not (but it will). He just needs time for everything. He is a great talent, and just as most other young drafted forwards, he needs a little time to mature and get used to the nhl to truly perfect his game to what it can be. He was only 18 last year, remember that.
Go isles or Go home.
Hes been working on his skating
This summer with a skating coach, to try and improve his stride and get some more speed in him.
hell never be a Gaborik, but lets not forget, Gretky’s main drawback was his poor skating
In Garth we trust!
that will come withbetter leg stength
just my opinion
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 14, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Jt could play wing
I don’t think it is a horrible idea, maybe not full time, but if things aren’t clicking to try JT at wing. I don’t think he is bad at C, but I wouldn’t be upset if Gordon took a look at him as a winger for a few games, or on a few shifts
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 14, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Few shifts,
I don’t want JT getting used to playing forward. He is a true center (passing-playmaker, great hands, in front of the net beat the goalie guy).
Go isles or Go home.
Martin and Joensuu
Can’t wait for these two. I got high hopes.
by Torch7 on Sep 13, 2010 8:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The way I see it...
…right now.
01-JT-KO (I kind of like JB with Frans where he will get into good habits, but if he replaces Nino in the 01 slot after his 9 games… that could very well be the Isles go to line for a long time… we can hope for magic.. but I see Moulson filling the 01 in game 10)
02-RS-BC (I think we’ll see career years from RSH and BC. That’s not saying a whole lot but the Isles should get 30-35 goals out of the two of them… combined)
JB-FN-TH (The Isles most net productive line. They will be > +30, if healthy)
MM-ZK-DW (the LW spot will probably be shared by MM, John Sim and trevor gillies)
01: For the first nine games Nino will get every opportunity to make the team… but he most likely will not. Hopefully he marks his territory because he won’t be gone long. Moulson is just the best LW option they have right now. He’ll start off in the 02 position where he can be very productive with RSH and Blake Comeau.
02: When Nino goes back and the dust clears there will be about twenty games to play for these minutes. Parentau, Joensuu and maybe even Matt Martin will get time there.
That slot is the biggest question mark. If it is managed well there are 6 guys in the organizaton that will spend time in it (Martin, Parenteau, Bailey, Joensuu, Moulson and possibly Figren). The winner will basically be holding a spot for Nino, Petrov or Kabanov.
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
I cannot see Bailey spending too much time on the 3rd line. I think Nino will get his 9 games and Matt Martin will start in BP and get called up when Nino goes back to Juniors. Bailey will be line 2 the whole time with Nino on 3 for his 9 games. Either that or Bailey will be 2nd line center and Schremp will be odd man out for a while.
Depends on your definition of “3rd line” I guess, but if Bailey is playing with Nielsen then he’ll be drawing a lot tougher assignments than Schremp. The Nielsen line will be used against the other teams’ best players, Tavares will be a mix of that and easier minutes, and Schremp will probably be sheltered in the hope he picks up points against the opponents’ lower lines.
Lighthouse Hockey: Trying to reconstitute the Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas line from NHL 94.
this is an extension of my line of thinking. The isles, forever, have tried to squeeze the tube from the bottom, rather than fill from the top. By saying i want to see Bailey on the third line, I’m not saying that bailey is bad, he just OVERFILLS a role with more than it’s minimum requirements (see FRANS).
They need more talent up top, but when you have a solid two way player, who can make the oppositions best pay for their mistakes under pressure… you roll with that.
Martin may be able to fill this role, with upside, in the future… but he either needs to be more than a fourth line player in that role, or be in the minors getting prime minutes and responsibilities.
I want to see offensive upside guys get more opporunities with less responsibilities. Sure, Josh has offensive upside, but he hasn’t shown it at center, and he has been a solid defensive player regardless of position. With Frans and Tent I think he will be devoid of offensive responsibilities, but as we have seen in the past, that often produces goose eggs for top lines, and some important goals when those lines get frustrated.
Josh will get good minutes this year… he’ll get checking line minutes (if go-go runs to form that line would start every game… good face-off guy, whole line plays the full 200 feet… much better than Thompson/Park/Jackman) I think of that line like XXXXX-Sillinger-Hunter(2007-08). In retrospect, if Bergy was signed that year that line would have included him at LW and that would have been a very nice fit.
If they are going to SHOWCASE Nino to see what he’s worth it will be on a top two line… Why would you draft a start WR, and play him at CB in his rookie year because he’s not ready to be an NFL WR? He may prove that he is not ready (over-matched), but let him prove that in the role he was meant to play. Especially when you really don’t have much above him.
My cup is 3/4 empty, How 'bout yours?
I agree with most of your post,
but many teams draft star WR’s or CB’s and start them deeper on the depth chart and don’t just throw them into a top spot right away.
Go isles or Go home.
I'm hoping and thinking,
Bailey should start 2nd/3rd line center and have schremp in the minors to start the season if Nino is definitely getting his 9games.
Go isles or Go home.
Moulson
Made the team in the preseason last year. Its fun to gab about who will be where when the season begins, but I’m sure that Snow is not sure about where 4 to 6 players will be playing at the start, and will depend upon what he sees. Yea he has the obvious guys already in penned in ink, and some in pencil, and some will depend upon results in the next few weeks. I think we would all be surprised by how many positions are up for grabs.
Very interesting idea,
With nino as a 9gms season starter not taken into this lineup account:
No brainers: JT, KO, Bailey-age and possibilities, Nielsen, even Moulson(for last year)
People that could lose their spots, but not likely: Comeau(because of his end of the year performance), Hunter (because of his 6’3’’ size and what he brings to the team and could bring), Weight(because of his age and offseason surgery, but his mentoring and leadership stays), Konopka (we need a 4th line fighter and physical force),
People That need to fight to keep their spots: Schremp(1yr wonder coming off of surgery), Parenteau (because he is still mostly unproven, but has looked great in the ahl and decent last year in his short time with the rangers), Martin (still young, but still a good physical talent, only time will tell what he will become)
People that could upend other forwards for spots: Sim, Hilbert, Joensuu, Nino, and possibly(but less likely) Haley, Kabanov, Petrov(because of his contract)
Gillies definite reserve
Go isles or Go home.
Good summary
Two of the most hated terms that are used on a player is “soft” and a “drifter” Tambellini, a former late first pik fitted that description. Jason Blake, in his prime, though small in stature did not steer away from contact, was a great skater and drove the net in traffic. and of course scored. During the mid nineties, the Philly press sneered at the Rags teams and called them smurfs, meaning a bunch of soft players. What is my point? Sim is certainly not soft, but with the new talent is likely at the Bridge for depth and leadership for the prospects there. Schremp I have spoken of and he has to prove he can preform down low. Last year he had the moves but except at the end played soft. Among many of the hopefuls has the most to prove and the shortest time to do it. Hunter is Hunter, good guy, good size, but just a miss so far except for his rookie year. Martin and Nino, we would all love to make it soon.The Hilbert acquisition I don’t get, since we have so many better options. Comeau is a real question mark, on his best days he is a second line guy, and on his worst, he is still a second line guy, except that line would be in Bridgeport. I wouln’t bore anyone wwho is reading this because we are all beginning to repeat ourselves, especially me. Let the season begin!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lighthouse Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Islanders Schedule
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Coyotes’ Mike Smith believes Dustin Brown should be ‘done forever’ for Rozsival hit; slams Game 5 officiating
- Tuesday’s Three Stars: Penner’s overtime winner puts Kings in the Final
- Mike Milbury vs. Jeremy Roenick over Dustin Brown’s Game 5 OT hit on Michal Rozsival (VIDEO)
- Watch Kings, Coyotes in hostile handshake line after Dustin Penner sends LA to Stanley Cup Final (VIDEO)
- Kings vs. Coyotes Game 5; Pierre McGuire on Tortorella/DeBoer argument (Playoff Puck Previews)
SBNation.com Recent Stories
1979-80
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 24, 1980: Tonelli to Nystrom. At long last, the steady build of the New York Islanders from expansion doormat to surprise semifinalist to annual contender reaches the promised land: Buoyed by a late season trade for Butch Goring that gave the team the depth up the middle GM Bill Torrey had been seeking, the Islanders knock off the Philadelphia Flyers in six games.
The victory justified the faith in coach Al Arbour who guided them from their second season to their first Stanley Cup seven seasons later. The Islanders would not be the first expansion team to win the Stanley Cup, but they would be the only one capable of a dynasty.
1980-81
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 21, 1981: This time it was much easier. After falling to "only" 91 points in the 1979-80 season, the Islanders returned to their division title tradition, piling up 110 points -- a whole 13 points over second-place Philadelphia.
Between the quarterfinals (where they beat the upstart Oilers in six games) and the finals, the Islanders reeled off eight consecutive wins -- with a four-game sweep of archrival Rangers in between. As they defeated the Minnesota North Stars in five games for their second Cup, their goal difference in the final was a combined +10.
1981-82
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 16, 1982: Another year, another landslide title. The Islanders won the Patrick Division by a whopping 26 points over the second-place Rangers, and were seven points clear of their nearest competition for the President's Trophy, the still-not-quite-ripe Edmonton Oilers.
A first-round scare against the Pittsburgh Penguins turned in the Isles' favor thanks to John Tonelli's heroics, and a true dynasty was on its way: Past the Rangers in six games, then an eight-game sweep of the Quebec Nordiques and Vancouver Canucks to run away with the Stanley Cup.
1982-83
Source: Uploaded by user via NYIslanders on Pinterest
May 17, 1983: Not so fast, whipper-snappers. The Edmonton Oilers' steadily rising challenge for league supremacy took them all the way to the finals for the first time, where the New York Islanders summarily dispatched them in a four-game sweep. For the Islanders, the Dynasty was secured. For the Oilers, it was a powerful lesson in where talent ends and the demands of playoff hockey begin.
Four years, four Cups, 16 consecutive playoff series wins (a record that would grow to 19 until the rematch with the Oilers the following year). Mike Bossy scored 60 goals yet again, and Wayne Gretzky became acquainted with Billy Smith's crease.
