Mock NHL Expansion: Where to?
Not that the NHL needs more teams... Still, one of our final diversionary exercises of the summer will be a mock expansion draft, coordinated by the SB Nation hockey hub.
First step: Vote on which two cities to faux "expand" to.
Second step: Expansion draft! That means we need to figure out a protected list for the Islanders. I'll have the rules for that up a little later.
over 1 year ago
Dominik
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This is going to be fun
I’m surprised they didn’t include a 2nd Toronto on the list, that’s one that gets thrown around a lot (if the leafs ever let it happen). You never hear about it but I wonder if Milwaukee would be a good market. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Whale come back either. That said it looks like QC and Winnepeg “are getting their teams back”, at least in the blogosphere.
Hamiliton is basically a 2nd Toronto option.
I went with QC and Winnipeg. But I think I’m more likely to hit the lotto then seeing Bettman allow two new Canadian teams.
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yeah, someone mentioned that they should have had Hartford on the list, but by that point I think there were already a few hundred votes.
I am really doubtful about Winnipeg’s ability to support a team — at least anything above a low-revenue team. Which is fine by me: If this league firmly decides it wants to continue or increase revenue sharing and maintain low-revenue teams (such as our own, although we don’t get revenue sharing), then that actually is a dream for me. I’d love to have Winni, Quebec and Hartford back.
But I think for expansion, they’ll go for those long-term high-dollar markets, and they’ll keep the Winnipegs in reserve as last-resort alternatives to any southern teams that end up having to relocate. The NFL, MLB, MLS and even the NHL with Kansas City have shown that keeping wannabe markets like that open and clamoring for a team is a great weapon for securing public subsidies.
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Seattle.
It’s a wealthy “border” city, has shown success with non-“big 3” sports (the MLS team there is amazingly well supported), has a number of potential native owners due to the…well, let’s call it the “Microsoft” concentration of wealth…so I’m surprised it hasn’t appeared in rumors about relocation that I can recall.
I’m going to guess the problem with Seattle would be the arena? Isn’t that why the Sonics moved because they couldn’t get any public funding for a new arena?
I’m not saying clubs should get public funding, but if Seattle has an out of date arena that might be holding them back. Actually if I remember right, didn’t the owner of the Seahawks fund most of their new football field out of pocket?
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Yes, the arena
Apparently, the Sonics owners got a massive refurbishment of Key Arena ca. 1995 and part of the arrangement was that they renovated it so that it was unsuitable for pro hockey.
If there isn’t a bigger warning about publicly bending over for sports teams than that, I don’t know what it is.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
Me English not good
If there isn’t a bigger warning about publicly bending over for sports teams than that, I don’t know what it is.
Yeah, that didn’t quite come out right. But I think you know what I’m saying.
These mid-tier markets man, sports teams can really hold them by the balls. Which makes the Isles inability to fix their arena situation all the more maddening.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
part of the arrangement was that they renovated it so that it was unsuitable for pro hockey.
I just figured the arena itself was out of date, not that it was purposely unsuitable for Pro Hockey… That’s just plain weird to me.
Dominik signed me for 20 years, and all I got was a press conference and a voided contract...
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Forgot about that, thanks WebBard!
Qwest Field actually did get public funding – roughly $360 mil from the state government. Paul Allen agreed to purchase the team and funded the statewide referendum vote to secure funding, as part of the push which got those state funds secured.
Part of the reason that the Seattle MLS team does well there is because they use Qwest Field too, and since Paul Allen is a minority owner of the Sounders and part-owner of Qwest in the public-private partnership authority over the stadium, they get both a good deal AND potentially much more capacity than a lot of other teams. And a dim memory of ticket packages of both Seahawks and Sounders games is floating around in my mind.
So yeah, there’d be nowhere to have an NHL team play…and the most likely potential owner, Paul Allen, has already proven unwilling to privately fund construction of a facility on his own.
The SuperSonics relocation was partially due to the inability to secure private funding for arena updates, but there was a change of ownership involved as well. Paul Allen, who if I recall correctly had desired purchasing the team before he purchased the Trail Blazers, could not bid because he already owned one team. The new ownership group, without established ties with Seattle, moved the team to OKC which already had up-to-date infrastructure in place (as a result of their “borrow” of the Hornets during the Katrina recovery in NOLA)…
Jumped the gun on my vote, I guess…completely skipped thinking about the arena situation. My bad!
We can still dream!
No need to let such realities get in the way of your vote (unless you want to). I figure the whole concept of expanding to 32 is a pipe-dream anyway, so I just pretend there is a benevolent billionaire waiting to build in each city.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
"starve the beast"
Haha, excellent.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
I went
Houston and Hamilton. Canada gets another team, even though i think it’d hurt the Sabres, they won’t shut up till they get a team there. Houston had the Aeros and i’m pretty sure they have a minor league team that does well, plus you’d get an instant rivalry with the Stars.
by Staten Islander on Aug 27, 2010 11:57 AM EDT reply actions
Has anyone looked at Winnipeg on a map? It’s tiny and really in the middle of nowhere. The fact that they ever had a team is astounding to me.
QC had a team and apparently couldn’t support it. I mean, I don’t remember the particulars when the Nordiques moved but I’d imagine if they were a money making machine the owner wouldn’t have tried to move the team. Owners tend to like money.
I would’ve went Seattle and Portland b/c I didn’t like a 2nd choice and had to pick two but I thought that was cheap so I abstained. The Canadian cities had their chance and I don’t think adding teams in the south is a good idea. I would’ve loved for the Whale to be back on there.
Quebec was part-building, part money
Yeah, Winnipeg is a viability worry. The reality, when people remove their Bettman-assassin shades (I definitely understand that’s hard to do), is that there really was no one willing to own and operate (or build new venues) in either Winnipeg or Quebec at the times of those moves. The exchange rate at the time and the direction of the league (skyrocketing salaries, big market teams with new buildings with lots of luxury suites) made both private bidders and the governments there balk at doing what was needed to keep those teams, because it just didn’t look feasible.
Minnesota was a slightly different story b/c Norm Greed looked and operated like he wanted to move the team regardless, so people smelled that and Minny fans always had plenty of alternatives for their hockey fix.
The saddest irony is that by the time the league realized exchange rates don’t last forever and they really could stare Goodenow down and negotiate an artificial rein on salaries, QC/Winnipeg/Hartford were already gone and all that was left to protect was … Phoenix, and Nashville, and Atlanta.
That is the argument of me, a very long-view type of person, who thinks huge metro markets in the U.S. are decent long-term bets for the league (with proper ownership!) and slightly smaller markets in Canada are good near- and long-term bets. I think Quebec qualifies, but Winnipeg makes me nervous. If there weren’t a billionaire like Thomson involved, they wouldn’t even be a consideration — and the problem with relying purely on home-grown bilionaires in small markets is, billionaires eventually die. Their children often have other interests.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
Quebec, followed by Winnpeg.
Some good choices there, both American and Canadian/ien. I went with Quebec.
Hamilton may deserve a team, but as long as Buffalo is in business, there will never be an NHL team there.
KC thought both the Pens and Isles might move there (isles might still-ugh), but they do have a new modern arena, just no proven audience.
Northwest USA could use a team, but too close to Vancouver and it would infringe on their territory.
Depending on financial circumstances and an arena that won’t fall around them, almost every team on that list has a chance. The second Toronto team was left off the list, which is a mistake.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
The second Toronto team was left off the list, which is a mistake.
Agreed. That’s actually the most likely expansion destination of all, because it represents such a massive revenue and expansion-fee goldmine for the rest of the owners.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
That’s actually the most likely expansion destination of all,
It really is.
Let Us Go, Islanders! (Ever notice how strange that sounds without the contraction?)
by TheMetalChick on Aug 31, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I voted for Seattle and Quebec
One is a nice cold major sports town in the US where I think hockey would strive among youth and fans. And Quebec obviously would become a huge hockeytown in canada. I’m all for 2 more teams, and if possible a slightly longer season.
Go isles or Go home.
Seattle and Hamilton for me
One Eastern, one Western: a “second” Toronto team in an area that has enough fans to support it, and a team in the first US city to win the Stanley Cup. It would be nice to go to four eight-team divisions while we were at it.
My latest contract is for 31 years.
Realignment!
Four 8-team divisions would be fantastic. I’m ashamed to admit how much I’ve thought about this in the past.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
oh, it's a definite challenge
Because the southern and western teams are much more sparse it becomes harder to get together groups of eight without putting them at a severe disadvantage compared to the northeastern teams. For example, it doesn’t work to just re-assembe the classic 80’s divisions and add the extra teams. (Pity, that.) And there are TEN northeastern teams, so which two get the nudge to less-convenient divisions? (This already subtracts Pittsburgh, which is the edge of the midwest, and Washington, which is kind of stuck in no-man’s land, halfway between the Devils and Hurricanes.)
Boston, for example, makes much more sense playing the Flyers, Rangers, and Isles six times a year; and of course the Bruins and Canadiens need each other to hate. So Boston-Montreal-Rags-Isles-Philly-Jersey, plus… well, Toronto and Buffalo, for the old Adams Division purists? Great – but Hamilton and Ottawa, natural rivals of those teams, are now unmoored. How can Hamilton and Toronto not be in the same division?
The best I can do is:
Patrick: Islanders, Rangers, Jersey, Philly, Boston, Montreal, Buffalo, Pittsburgh
Norris: Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Columbus, Detroit, Minny, Chicago, Washington
Adams: Tampa, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, St Louis, Colorado, Dallas
Smythe: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Seattle, San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Phoenix
The Smythe is the only one that I can’t see a quibble with… the other three all have problems. Washington doesn’t really fit anywhere easily. Colorado fits a few different places. The new Norris is kind of sprawling and awkward, with far-closer Pittsburgh and Buffalo sticking out between the three Canadian clubs and the Capitals. (Having both nation’s capital cities in the same division is cute, but hardly essential.) In fact, I could see switching the Caps and the Pens, since Pittsburgh could have a nice natural midwestern rivalry with Columbus, and the Caps are very familiar with all their old Patrick Division pals. It would also be fun to see the Wings and Pens in the same division after having contested the Cup from different conferences in the past.
My latest contract is for 31 years.
THIS
…is exactly why I’m afraid to admit how often and long I’ve thought about this before. There’s no perfect answer, but a whole bushel of almost-perfect ones.
For others: I think we’ll use this concept as a post idea early next week, after the poll results are in.
Lighthouse Hockey: An always-open repair shop for mikb's sarcasm module.
Seriously, adding Hamilton means ridding ourselves of Buffalo. Just because Buffalo has felt this recession more than many other cities doesn’t mean we shouldn’t protect their fan base.
Had you said a second Toronto team in Toronto, I would applaud you. But as it stands, at least one 1967 team will fade.
Get out of the sticks, Charles, move to Queens!! Come, Get some respect a Professional team deserves!!
Portland, ME and Portland, OR
I actually would rather it was Bangor, Maine but there just aren’t enough people
but Portland would be great, there are a lot of hockey fans in Maine and New Brunswick-Nova Scotia. Right now 80% of the people are Bruins fans, but I think Portland would grab some of them
and then instead of Seasttle Oregon, I feel they are set to really support a pro team in any sport
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
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